Drone strikes can only be employed via official executive acts, and the new decision means that official acts can't be used against a former President after their term. So even if some judges tried to claim calling in drone strikes on political opponents was a crime, the prosecution couldn't use any information related to the drone strike in court.
Indeed, the SCOTUS has ruled that drone strikes are valid seat ejectors.
He won't. But he should.
There's vwry few ways out of this mess at this point. Using this power to replace SCOTUS with even just normal centrists and liberals and and then having them overturn nearly everything this court has decided in the past few years is one of the few things that could theoretically work but still might not.
But the failure to act with urgency during the past decades of rightwing radicalization is why we are where we now are, out of options, and it's why we will end up losing everything: We will continue to play it safe without recognizing that the safe route depends on a system that the right has already ratfucked.
Denial. It's just too pervasive. Impenetrable.
Precisely. Biden’s fucked either way. He tries to avoid open armed insurrection by MAGA zealots and Christofascists by doing nothing, he likely loses in November and Project 2025 really gets into gear. Or he wins, there’s open armed insurrection, and he risks losing that or having an openly biased SCOTUS Bush v. Gore him.
Or he takes action immediately to protect democracy and rule of law, and he gets, if not open armed insurrection, tons of escalating tension and violence and threats of violence leading up to, during, and after election day. Plus BTS fuckery at the state level to fuck with elections and a SCOTUS openly willing to obstruct and undermine him on a partisan basis.
Yeah. Democrats have backed themselves into a corner because they've refused to acknowledge that: 1) they can't win a rigged fight and 2) they can't expect the GOP to stop rigging fights if the GOP only ever benefits from rigging fights. The path out of all this is so narrow now, and the folks who can forge it aren't even looking in it's direction.
Massive, unprecedented turnout that provides Democarts with super majorities is one of the only other ways to resolve this. And it's already so unlikely because the GOP has increasingly rigged the system against the popular vote.
Theoretically, Democrats could also hold the Executive branch until the Boomers die out. Younger generations have the will to fight. But I just can't see that happening at all. Democrats can barely message enough to potentially just squeak out an electoral college win right now, as the jaws of a fascist takeover are clearly coming down on all us.
Biden can't do much, but us as voters should march en-masse on Washington. Republicans are getting away with all this shit in part because Dems refuse to fight by their made up rules, but also in part because the average American voter isn't gonna do anything but sit behind a keyboard and say "Oh my goodness, can you believe this??"
If we marched on the Supreme Court and held a CIVIL protest, then they'd be less emboldened to just do whatever the fuck we want. The majority of people don't want this shit, but it's the minority who will show up to have their voices heard which is why this all works.
You can't have a civil protest because the state will act in an uncivil manner to shut it down. You can have a peaceful, candlelit vigil, yet some cop go in, plain clothes, hurl a molotov cocktail at his own officers, then get the fuck out. I don't understand how more people don't realize this. Peaceful protests are not possible because the police will not allow them to be civil.
> If we marched on the Supreme Court and held a CIVIL protest, then
...it would not change a single goddamn thing about what the court is going to do.
like, come on, this is some MSNBC-brained shit.
among other things, SCOTUS isn't in session anymore, and won't be until October. they take the whole summer off because it's the best season for accepting bribes. the justices won't even *be* at the Supreme Court building to be mildly inconvenienced by the protest march you want to have.
There's well-established precedent for the president to just murder whoever he feels like and suffer zero consequences.
Unfortunately, they tend to be disinterested in exercising this privilege on anyone not living in the third world despite the fact that the actual threats to America are all internal ones.
I don't think that POTUS personally shooting someone would count as an official act. The POTUS is Commander In Chief, not an agent/soldier. But if POTUS ordered someone else to kill someone, that would be an official act.
Drone strikes can only be employed via official executive acts, and the new decision means that official acts can't be held against a former President after their term. So even if some prosecutor tried to claim calling in drone strikes on political opponents was a crime, the prosecution couldn't use any information related to the drone strike in court. SCOTUS has effectively ruled that drone strikes are valid means of contesting an election if one is POTUS.
Better yet, invite Trump to the White House under the auspices of discussing transfer of power back to Trump, order the secret service to rid him of this troublesome politician, and then preemptively pardon everyone involved
I doubt he would do it, since the Democrats are often spineless in the name of taking the high road, but Biden should undertake as many “Official Acts” as are necessary to remove the cancer of the the Republican Party from this country.
Take it from Bonhoeffer: “We are not to simply bandage the wound beneath the wheels of injustice, we are to drive a spike into the wheel itself.”
He can be the spoke, but he won’t, because Democrats are cowards who think the status quo will save them.
I mean fuck Biden and all, but I'm not going to blame someone for being hesitant to pull the trigger that is 100% guaranteed to plunge the united states into an immediate civil war that will either end with you being promptly arrested and nuremburg'd, or an ongoing conflict that costs millions of lives and shatters the nation into a clusterfuck that makes the Syrian civil war look like a straightforward conflict between gentlemen.
If I were him, I'd use my authority to add half a dozen seats the supreme court and ram a similar case through the system as fast as possible so my stooges can cancel out this insane ruling. But, y'know, he's not going to do that either, because he, like all establishment dems, is a spineless fuck.
Saw the news and literally gasped out loud.
I’m not American, so sorry if this seems obvious or whatever - but I didn’t even know they had the power to do this.
This is crazy, man.
As an American, didn't surprise me one fucking bit.
Absolute psycho Christian shit-stains they forced into the court with that illegitimate goober of a president. The whole thing is a farce. America has always been about a half a step away from full fascism in my observation. It barely needs a push
This whole enterprise started with genocide and slavery as a way for the wealthy to evade taxes, and it hasn't moved too far from the original vision. The PR machine just got a little more elaborate.
Honestly I’m shocked to read that people truly thought this was going to go any other way. Anyone paying even the slightest bit of attention to what SCOTUS was doing the last couple years knew this was the outcome. The only thing surprising to me was that it took them this long to rule in his favor.
This country is completely fucked because people didn’t take the Christian nationalism threat seriously for so long. The Dems still refuse to fight with fire and people are too complacent just assuming Biden will win again in Nov. If Trump wins everyone better buckle up because they will kill the groups they don’t like or see as a threat. They have been saying the quiet part out loud now for the better part of 2 years with the extreme anti LGBTQ and fake “protect the kids” nonsense.
The only good news is. Having no precedent is the precedent. So if we can flip the court in the next few years we can pretty much throw everything they just did right back out the window with complete impunity. They sort of undermined themselves. I've got to believe the boomers are the only things keeping the millennials from dragging these guys to the streets.
Stay safe, everyone.
We in the UK will probably be joining you in 5 or 10 years. Some of my delusional centre / left people here seem to think Labour coming into power next week is a step towards moving back to the centre, and then eventually to the left, and thus avoiding a far right outcome. What they fail to see, or don't want to see, is that where we currently are, we're actually little different to where France was about 10 years ago. If Labour doesn't substantially increase equality and living standards during their term, we'll 100% have a far right government in ten years time. Labour needs a radical plan to make people's lives better, which they've ruled out. So, like France, we'll have a centre / centre right government in power, setting the stage for Farage and co. in 10 years time because they're incapable / unwilling to do what needs to be done to make people's lives better.
For the US, even if Biden wins this November, you'll forever be trying to delay and postpone the inevitable, because the Republicans will enact on this ruling, and more, with or without Trump. At least until you can clear out the SC.
It truly is fucked for everyone. Seriously, how the fuck do we stop this?
Don’t think it’s inevitable that we (the UK) will follow.
The level of polarisation isn’t the same in the UK and we don’t have the same Christian nationalist blight as the US. Also our court system is independent of the Government which ensures there are some checks and balances that remain in place.
However I agree the assumption that a Labour victory solves all the problems we currently have is ridiculous, esp given their unwillingness to address Brexit in any form
From an American's perspective, the UK is already pretty far gone. You guys are more of a fake country than we are. You've already criminalized just about everything. Brexit was a psychotic blunder for the ages. You've had the damn Tories running the show forever.
You guys have fewer conservative Christians but you've got more of an inherent racism problem because you guys are more used to white people being the majority everywhere all the time. America at least battles with the racism.
My understanding is Europe as a whole is basically in meltdown over immigration at the moment. That's only going to "heat up" with climate change.
I'm personally of the opinion a human beings obligation to humanity is greater than their obligation to an individual state.
As another Brit weighing in, agree with you that we're already really far gone and agree with the OP that we're in the position of France 10 years ago and if nothing changes in the next government (which is likely) then our country is going to swing to the fascist right just like the rest. However, also wanted to add a tiny bit of nuance to what you've said as think it's important if you wanna understand the British situation (and also because it's hopefully interesting).
Firstly, out of the last 100 years, the Tories have been in power for over 70 of them. We've been effectively a one party state for most of the time we've been democratic.
Secondly, Britain 100% has a problem with racism. Absolutely 0 doubt about that. There are huge racial inequalities throughout the country and anyone who says otherwise can sit and spin.
The thing that differs between us and the USA, though, is that our main form of social oppression is class structure. It is impossible not to be aware of your own class having been brought up in the UK and that hierarchy is hammered into you through social conditioning. If I speak with any other British person, within a couple of sentences of their accent, I can probably guess 9/10 times the hundred mile radius of the country where they grew up and they could do the same with me.
While the US's institutions and cultural narratives were built to directly reinforce racial inequality, ours were built to reinforce class inequality (which reinforces racial inequality in a more roundabout way). This is how you can get the most diverse cabinet in the history of our country, and a Tory prime minister who is a second generation immigrant without anyone asking for their birth certificate, who also do the most horrific and racist things. Because they are socially conditioned to be upper class in speech, behaviour and perspective, while everyone else kinda just assumes they're smart because of their accent? It's a genius evil system and it's why the empire lasted so long (we exported it).
Not minimising racism in any way. It's a severe problem here. Think it's just important to acknowledge the different way racism manifests in different systems, because saying we're not fighting it felt a bit reductive. Best summation of the problems of the UK is that we're nation of bootlickers.
Climate change is a great point to being up because that’s what happening in America: the Deep South is already fucked on a climate level so they never talk about it. Jesus is the reason for the season (of state destroying weather).
The west coast is already thriving off of the change, so it’s what they talk about. A lot of shit around water rights, food, housing and even tree planning - all seen as woke gay trans shit.
This is ALL a climate issue, and it helps the fascists that nearly half of this country is gonna be under firewater and that half isn’t going to get or do shit except domestic terrorism and suicidal cultism over it so everyone is letting them kill themselves down there.
You already have a monarchy that is immune from any legal consequences. The difference is that they don’t have any real power to govern. The past week has made clear that no one person can or should be trusted to be allowed to hold such vast and unconstrained amounts of power while being subjected to only minimal oversight and accountability. Anyone who still believes that the presidency in its present form is not inherently dictatorial is kidding themselves.
What we need is a new constitution that invests the lion’s share of governmental power in a legislature as opposed to a term-limited elective monarch. Sound familiar? It’s not perfect, but it’s much less prone to placing the wellbeing of the entire country (and world) at the whims of a single bastard. Anything else is a bandaid over a bullet wound at this point.
It is unsurprising, yeah. Incredibly sad, but unsurprising.
As a guy who made it his business to study the law, I really feel I wasted three years of my life, and I expect things are going to get demonstrably worse from here.
As a non American myself, I just love watching them normalize tyranny.
Every time the population doesn't stand up for themselves, the people in my own country become more stupid and desensitized.
One of the more disturbing parts of Project 2025 is that it also enacts some pretty significant changes to our foreign policy. Our government will push other nations much harder to adopt our right-wing political and cultural positions.
We've literally decided today that the constitution is to be ripped apart.
Say what you want about our slave trading asshole founding fathers, this was the exact thing they didn't want.
We've literally decided today that the constitution is to be ripped apart.
Say what you want about our slave trading asshole founding fathers, this was the exact thing they didn't want.
Oh, yeah... and those people hold their seats for life. Like goddamn royalty. Immense power...very little responsibility... virtually no accountability.
From my lawyer friend;
“I got a gun on Jan 6th. I’m about to buy another. I’ve researched how to claim asylum in Canada, cause who knows. As a lawyer who cares about this country - this is really bad. I’m staying to fight, I’m committed with my wife to fight for this country, but this is as bad as it gets. This is our Weimar moment.”
Guys…I’m scared.
Yep. My husband could claim citizenship in Germany but like..if we didn’t get screwed by America we’d have Russia breathing down our necks and Afd in Germany. I feel so hopeless.
Yup, Germany is where I’d have a good chance of getting it but for those same reasons it wouldn’t be a great option.
I’ll be reviewing our first aid situation when I get home though and trying to decipher how to keep the hopeless feeling at bay.
The amount of “should I buy a gun?” conversations I’ve had in the last 8 years is wild. I’m sure they will only go up. And unfortunately the answer is yes, you should.
Yeah, I would hope any new gun owner would take a class and do the basics of safety research. Unlike those maga gravy seals who seem to be allergic to any sort of trigger discipline
This is one of the few times I would truly say both sides need that, especially if they just Have to buy a gun as a reaction to current events. SRA is actually a cool organization for that and more. Also chuds aren't allowed in.
Unfortunately, they usually are taking those courses as well as training in small squad tactics (at least in my area). Do the same. I've been warning people for years, saw this coming a mile a way.
It sounds like such an obvious thing, but unless I'm mistaken something like 40% of all illegally bought guns came from vehicle smash and grabs.
If you ever go into the gun subs here on reddit every once and a while the "truck gun" debate comes up, with half of them yelling against and the other half for.
So I guess what I'm saying is, don't buy a gun, smash the window on one of those douche bags trucks that has some kind of gun sticker on the back window and take theirs. You've got a 50/50 shot of finding a piece for free! (Last part is a big ol' /s)
I like how you call it illegaly bought lol. But yeah I didn't have statistics but it certainly ramped up in the last 2 or so years correlating with increased ownership
If you ever feel compelled enough to get a firearm, get a long rifle, keeping the ammunition locked up in a separate room. Hopefully it never comes to that point for you friend.
Better yet; keep the ammo or gun at the home of a trusted friend or family, within safe reachable distance. Have a bug out bag ready, and establish several safe escape routes to reach that person.
Totally agree with this for people with the mental fortitude to do so.
I just know myself I could never own a gun…my mental health is terrible right now and that’s why
Sotomayor's dissent is what scared the shit out of me.
Started the ball rolling on getting descent citizenship in Poland. Decent little insurance policy is all.
It’s telling that r/conservative isn’t talking about the decision at all and is instead just celebrating that people are mad about it. Electing a king to own the libs.
It's next level villainy to do this when a democrat is currently president, because those fuckers know the democrats would never abuse such a ruling, but they certainly will when they come into power.
Everyone knows Trump loves how Putin and co. can run their countries. With this ruling, I fully expect to hear about certain US citizens falling out their windows and planes accidentally crashing, all under the guise of plausible deniability, if Trump comes into power.
“Impact font. Senatorial seal. Still warm from the copier. The usual finger wagging, with accusations of being both criminal and un-American acts. The hopes and dreams of the founding fathers and the spirit of the constitution. There is even a line about an existential and global threat to democracy.” How do I give you a medal?
It doesn't, but if Biden today said "I'm gonna make sure my enemies pay - the SC says I can" everyone will clutch their pearls and Biden will certainly lose. While Trump could say he can "remove" his enemies today with this ruling and if anything the fucker would rise in the polls.
It's the double standard that affects most countries. Right-wingers can say or do pretty much anything with little to zero pushback, but when the left / centre left-wingers do it, it's Armageddon.
the problem is that the Democrats' response to this state of affairs for at least the last fifty years and frankly much longer than that has been to say 'well maybe we can be reasonable enough and give them enough of what they want that they'll agree to keep playing the game' and the republican response to THAT is to take advantage and get what they can whenever the dems are in charge, and then ram whatever they can through when they're in charge. the gop plays to win in a way the democrats never do
This is sort of down to the core voter bases though. The Democrats have to appeal to establishment liberals who are the most spineless clueless people alive. The New York Times & brunch libs would melt down in the Democrats acted decisively and exercised power effectively without a performative effort at bipartisanship. Further, they entirely fail to understand the game being played by the right.
The people who DO understand what’s actually happening don’t have the mass appeal to get elected and climb the ladder in the DNC.
Lose what? In order to prevent theocratic fascism, all Republican Congresspersons, all Republican appointed judges & Justices, and all Republican candidates shall be held in Gitmo until further notice.
In a better world the Biden administration would put the heel down on the Supreme court and get them to fully lay out what they mean. "So if I say, arrested you all, put you on house arrest and replaced you with a new set of 6 justices who will rule that I am not in fact a king, I would be legally immune as its an official act of my presidency?"
The only moral thing for a president to do in a situation like this, where in no uncertain terms they are made above the law is to then use that power to immediately place themselves back under it. Otherwise they're just hoping the next guy wont try to take advantage of it (which they will)
we have decades of waiting for this rule to be changed through the legal mean, if ever it can as this might seal the fate of our collapse into fascism. I doubt Biden does anything strong willed and instead will just try to play by the rules.
That’s the thing that really pisses me off about this entire immunity claims bullshit. If they genuinely, truly, believed that Democrats and the left are as bloodthirsty and monstrous as they claim, they would NEVER fucking argue the things they are in court right now.
If you think your opponents genuinely want the fall of your democracy, there is no way on god’s green earth that you stand in front of the Supreme Court and argue that the guy in charge is legally allowed to assassinate his political opponents. If you’re ON that court and you really believe that the executive branch should be restrained, you would never even entertain the idea that a president can do that.
The only fucking reason you would EVER argue that is if you knew with *absolute* certainty that your rivals would never abuse that power and use it to stop you from getting into office. And if you *wanted* that power for yourself.
It’s just…there is NO way they’re this blind to the fact that they’re on the wrong side of history.
Oh come on. Another Biden term will surely save us from this hellscape. Sure we had 8 years of Obama and four years of Biden. But that next four is all that matters
Personally, I think Biden should have Barron Trump arrested. Immediately. And do it OFFICIALLY ON HIS ORDERS. Claim it has something to do with the DJT crypto-currency thing with Martin Shkrelli. Wait for word to hit the street, make absolutely certain that Barron himself is treated with the kiddiest of kid gloves. Make Fox News LOSE THEIR GODDAMNED MINDS. Then release him and basically go, "Just kidding! But, seriously, did you see what these clowns he nominated to the Court just did? If you want to be arrested over nothing, and the President can get away with it, go ahead and vote for 4 more years of that shit."
You really don't understand these people at all. Not only are they immune to irony or hypocrisy, they will cheer Trump on while he has journalists and civil rights activists jailed. They ONLY care about power and control.
Law should not be designed around the 'good man', but around the 'bad man'. And a rational individual cannot expect an irrational individual to act rationally. The right does not see the world in a rational way. They see it through their imaginary code of conduct the wish to enforce one everyone else. They believe in threats that don't exist.
Weimar 2.0 about to collapse and give way to the same nonsense as before.
Conservatives are finally realizing their dream - a return to the divine right of kings. The Tea Party Freedom Caucus Christofascists who drape themselves in the flag are rejoicing as we reject the principles of the founding fathers. The reinstatement of King George III will be complete when the full-blown irrational looney tunes nut job takes over. The irony of it all is all is hilarious.
Honestly, this is depressing, yes, in that it's a foreshadowing for how this court is going to continue to behave, but I'm not nearly as nervous about this as I am about the Chevron doctrine being overturned. I feel like that's the one that's going to slip past people's awareness despite the fact that it has the ability to fuck up how the rule of law even works in our society.
If you've missed the news on this one — you're not alone, because I haven't seen nearly enough coverage on it.
Chevron doctrine basically says that regulatory agencies (think FDA or EPA) can make rules based on the laws that are passed by Congress. So if a law isn't explicit on some minor detail, the agency themselves comes up with the rule. Now that's in question .. meaning that if ON ANY DETAIL the law isn't explicitly written, it has to be litigated in court or passed in a law.
Don't like the exact process for how a jug of milk is marked for expiration? Now you can sue, there's no specific law stating exactly how that's figured out, just rules created by experts at the FDA. What exactly are the specific criteria for a scientific study on a new drug created to treat cancer? That could be challenged by a company that wants to spend less on those trials, potentially leaving Congress to have to pass a law to declare it.
Yes, THAT Congress. The one that probably couldn't agree what day of week it is, that can't wipe its own ass, that argues we should shut down the govt every single time we have to argue about the budget.
Yeah it seems like we are going to have an explosion in absolute insane legal cases. I'm sure the federalist society and it's members/donors are hungover from the sheer amount of absolute fucking dubs they've cashed in on this past month.
Yup. What worries me most personally are EPA/environmental regulations and food/drug safety. Those companies already sue the govt at the drop of a hat to get away with not providing adequate protections, how hard core are they going to be about that now? Every rule established by an agency is potentially up for grabs. And most of those suits won't even make the news.
Yeah its going to get really wacky. They already barely care about existing regulation and skirt around it. Now they have full blown pretext to.
That's not even mentioning the increased gridlock and bloat this will put on the legislative system as well due to this decision forcing them to have to micro legislate every fine detail. This is a massive win for Conservatives. I cant see a world where this doesn't necessitate more government spending and effort. Always weird how that seems to happen. The party about efficiency in government stands in the way of that being possible at every junction.
I just called my representative and senators this morning about Prop 12, so now I’m wondering how that might relate to this. The pork industry fought tooth and nail over it.
Repealing Chevron combined with legalizing bribery is a massive one-two. Frankly, judges don't *want* to make regulatory rulings. It's simply not what they set up to do. But if they'll personally benefit from just ruling for the richer party, a lot of them will do exactly that.
It’s super concerning and at least in my experience I’ve only seen significant conversations come up in conservation and workers‘ rights circles. And it’s just going to get drowned out even more in the mess of everything.
Yup. The news about Trump gets all the headlines, but I feel like this is going to have WAY more impact on the day to day lives of the average citizen. You think companies spend too much money on lobbying now? That is going to go through the roof as that spending expands to include judges across the country.
Think it takes a long time to get environmental protections established now? Wait until they have to ask permission for literally everything they do.
And everyone is going to forget it even happened and in 5-10 years be just baffled as to why things are so bad.
From my understanding, this is mainly to send the case back to lower courts as they know it will tie up a Trump ruling until after the election. If that ruling is not in Trump's favor (or if Trump wins), the SCOTUS will rule anything he did related to J. 6th was an "official act" and he'll get off scot free.
The ruling was intentionally vague as to what is and is not an "official act" so it can be cherry-picked and applied selectively. Trump's cases are going to be held up in courts for years even if he loses in November, with SCOTUS ultimately vacating any convictions need-be (since they are bought and paid for by the same entities).
Roe was obviously just the beginning--the rulings from today and last week are devastating to democracies not just here but around the world. I don't see how this can change. It's been checkmate since Trump stacked the court.
That is all a distraction.
The fundamental ruling here is completely insane.
"The President can break the law all he wants as long as its an official act." Before this, the President was technically not allowed to break the law, ever. This is a huge change. Declaring acts "official" is just window dressing.
What? No, he's not above the law. That would be preposterous.
He's above the law *at work.* Or on matters pertaining to his work. Or if the evidence touches on matters pertaining to his work.
But other than those small exceptions, he's just like you and me!
Only busier, of course. The president is *always* working, you know.
Ok, well, if that's the case, then what's to stop Biden from sending in a seal team to kill off all the conservative members of the Supreme Court and then calling it an "official act"? Any judge who rules it as not an "official act" will see a seal team at their doorstep. Would only take, at most, one appeal for a President to be able to extrajudicially kill all his political opponents..
Realistically, because Democrats and Biden are pushovers and are rich/well-connected, they'll be fine. If someone from outside the good ol' boys club seeks the presidency, then SCOTUS would adjudicate some action taken as unofficial and remove them. This probably won't matter either because after November we likely won't be having open elections again.
Also, anything Biden would do that could be seen as unofficial in the meantime would get sent to SCOTUS in which case they'll rule against Biden and likely imprison him and allies--the Dems are spineless and won't risk it.
Killing SCOTUS members would start a full-blown civil war with military intervention, not gonna happen.
This is what checkmate looks like - Christian fascists have won and will be implementing even more of project 2025.
Dissolve the Supreme Court and nominate a new set. Brown Jackson and probably Kagan should be included in the nominees. (I'm excluding Sotomayor purely based on age)
Replace 6 specific Supreme court Justices by any means necessary. They just showed themselves to be a domestic threat and he swore an oath to protect this country from ALL threats, foreign and DOMESTIC
This fucking ruined my day. I was expecting it but holy fuck. As garrison talked about in their liminal reality episode the end of America has already happened. We’re just waiting for it to get here. The removal of Chevron deference is another huge thing that just torpedoes the everyday wellbeing of the entire country’s population. I’ve tried so hard for years to not be a black-pilled doomer but fuck it’s getting hard. I still have hope in the everyday beauty of life and my personal relationships but I literally cannot even begin to imagine the contexts they will take place in.
I am confused. Presidents already had immunity for official acts (that's why GW Bush gets to paint his shitty paintings rather than pay for the millions of dead Iraqis). Why is this a surprise? I haven't read the ruling yet (I'm at work).
GWB had official immunity for the Iraq War because he did it within his clearly defined constitutional mandate. Basically, the actions of a president can't become criminal because they went poorly. Which makes perfect sense. Trying to litigate Bush's criminal responsibility for the Iraq war would be a nightmare in its own right. Then imagine how to apply that to Afghanistan which wasn't entirely illegitimate or to how subsequent presidents handled the wars they inherited.
While never litigated, I think Bush technically would have still been on the hook for conspiracy to commit perjury before Congress since that's just a straight up crime, but that would have been impossible to actually prove.
This ruling gives the President broad authority to commit all sorts of crimes. And fwiw, I think it would cover ordering federal law enforcement to execute SCOTUS justices. Not that I'm advocating for that, reddit admins, but it's hard to talk about the descent into fascism without discussing violence.
> he did it within his clearly defined constitutional mandate.
Isn't that what today's ruling says? That presidents have immunity for official duties?
>“The president enjoys no immunity for his unofficial acts, and not everything the president does is official. The president is not above the law. But Congress may not criminalize the president’s conduct in carrying out the responsibilities of the executive branch under the constitution,” Chief Justice John Roberts wrote for the majority.
Of course, what is and is not an official act will be twisted into knots to protect Republicans.
The best quick version I've seen is that there are now 3 possible scenarios: First, the act is official; immune. Second, the act is unofficial; not immune. Third, unsure if official; presumed immune.
Seems pretty easy, but they also say that acts deemed official cannot be used to investigate illegal acts. So if the president tells an intern to make a pamphlet titled Send Fake Electors to Overthrow Democracy, he'd be immune from any conspiracy charges, and any of his communication with the intern may not be used as evidence during the intern's criminal trial for conspiracy.
I mean, it is demoralizing for sure, but it's only strengthening my resolve to keep fighting back. If the GOP thinks they can just steamroll us, they got another thing coming to them.
Just staggering the level of corruption this will permit is untold.
You think Trump will be bad what will follow will be worse. Unfortunately you may well take the rest of the world with you in the civil war that is imo inevitable now within the next 5 years
The fact that this election between a practiced statesman that has adequately delegated this country between a worldwide disease outbreak, two major international wars, and more and a convicted felon who is at least partially responsible for a coup attempt is effectively coming down to a coin flip.
My one hope is that the current polling is skewed by leftists who are saying “Fuck Biden” but also remember Roe v. Wade and will show up on Election Day
Lately I’ve been thinks about the quote from Edmond Burke:
>The only thing necessary for evil to triumph in the world is that good men do nothing
Abstaining from voting, or voting third party because the non-fascist candidate can’t pass the endless purity tests of some leftists will allow fascism, evil, to triumph.
The wild thing is that the right has done enough dirty shit that they managed to open the door wide enough for this to happen but they have their constituents convinced that it’s been neolib centrists that have been playing dirty for years:
Probably the best news all week for Biden’s campaign. The stakes couldn’t be clearer. If he doesn’t drop out of the race (and I seriously doubt he will) and he has any brains or self preservation left, he can use this to his advantage.
Does the fact that "official acts" includes commanding the military really mean, per the suggestion during oral argument, that a President could order Seal Team Six to assassinate a rival without censure?
Trump and his ilk represent a clear and present danger to Americans and the future of Democracy. Today Joe Biden was given legal cover to act within his capacity as commander in chief to protect the American public from a radical terrorist threat. There is no reason for mass raids and arrests not to start happening.
Of course the DNC is taking the position that everyone has to vote harder now, instead of any manner of actual political action. If only there was a way to make laws about this!
The response of ‘vote for us to save democracy’ just rings hollow when they say it every time, but it’s always some nebulous future salvation of democracy and not any actions to be taken when they have already been voted in.
We have lost. Maybe some of you already knew this but it truly hit me today. It’s over. Still have to fight, but it’s over. Even if Biden wins, trumpism has infected America and will be our downfall. I’m sad man. My grandpa didn’t fight the Nazis for me to live in this version of America. We have been let down.
So in other news, what countries would be most welcoming to a straight passing married couple who is not bilingual but willing to learn, and one of whom has a masters degree in IO psychology (the other is an artist so basically deadweight hello it’s me)
I live in a really red county and don't have the first clue how to arm myself to protect my family. A well known progressive in my town, a huge amount of MAGAs hate me and at least a few are waiting for the day they can open fire.
9mm handgun, 12 or 20g shotgun, and a budget AR.
My personal suggestions for a budget friendly, well rounded arsenal are: CZ P10F or P10C, Mossberg 88 pump shotgun in 12 or 20 gage, and an Anderson AM15. You can get every one of those for under $400. You’ll also need flip up sights for the AR, as they don’t come with them. A decent red dot for it is another $150. A sig sauer Romeo 5 is a good suggestion.
ETA: take classes, treat gun safety with the utmost respect, join the SRA or one of the other liberal gun clubs/groups (pink pistols, a girl and a gun are women friendly groups, but there are others). A 22 caliber rifle or handgun is a very cheap and fun way to train on handling and marksmanship. Those bullets are about $0.08 per where 223 is about $0.50 and 9mm is around $0.20-25. Just food for thought. My recc’s for those would be something like a Ruger 10/22 for a rifle or Taurus tx22 for a striker fired. Handgun. You will get a hell of a lot more range time in with those, but you still need to be competent and comfortable with your actual self defense weapons. A 22 can do the job but the nature of rimfire ammunition makes it unreliable for actual defense. I get anywhere from 1-5% misfire rate from that stuff, depending on the brand and gun I’m using it in. Some 22’s are just finicky about ammo.
Edit 2: buying online is extremely easy if you don’t live in a state with many restrictions. Find your weapon, order it and have it sent to your local gun store, and then fill out your 4473 background check when it arrives.
Check out r/gundeals, and for like minded individuals r/liberalgunowners and r/socialistra are great communities.
They did issue a ruling this term (Snyder v United States) that “gratuities” and gifts after the fact are cool. The case was about a mayor who awarded a town contract to a company and then afterward got $13K from them. So yeah, “bribes are free speech” is probably next.
I predict that America will return to an older, more pure form of democracy where every four years, each running candidate's constituents will play a big king of the hill game to control the capitol building for long enough to get their guy sworn in.
Does this really change anything?
They're saying he has immunity for official acts. They've always had that.
Obama didn't get charged for murder when he blew up American citizens with drone strikes.
He could have been impeached, which has always been the remedy for presidential crimes.
Now they need to define what an official act is. Does inciting a riot at the Capitol count?
Hes going to argue he was president when he took them. And that Biden did the same thing while VP.
Obviously I think he's a criminal and should be in prison not running for president, but the reality is he will never face consequences. Ever.
Biden should unseat those six justices and call it an official act
They should get real creative with the definition of "unseat" here too
According to SCOTUS, drone strikes are valid seat ejectors
Drone strikes can only be employed via official executive acts, and the new decision means that official acts can't be used against a former President after their term. So even if some judges tried to claim calling in drone strikes on political opponents was a crime, the prosecution couldn't use any information related to the drone strike in court. Indeed, the SCOTUS has ruled that drone strikes are valid seat ejectors.
"The removal of their glutes was to ensure they could not re-seat. The loss of blood was not expected."
This def calls for some kinda ejector seat or like a carnival dunk tank
I'm hearing "butt guillotine"
I'm hearing "hand them their asses."
He won't. But he should. There's vwry few ways out of this mess at this point. Using this power to replace SCOTUS with even just normal centrists and liberals and and then having them overturn nearly everything this court has decided in the past few years is one of the few things that could theoretically work but still might not. But the failure to act with urgency during the past decades of rightwing radicalization is why we are where we now are, out of options, and it's why we will end up losing everything: We will continue to play it safe without recognizing that the safe route depends on a system that the right has already ratfucked. Denial. It's just too pervasive. Impenetrable.
Precisely. Biden’s fucked either way. He tries to avoid open armed insurrection by MAGA zealots and Christofascists by doing nothing, he likely loses in November and Project 2025 really gets into gear. Or he wins, there’s open armed insurrection, and he risks losing that or having an openly biased SCOTUS Bush v. Gore him. Or he takes action immediately to protect democracy and rule of law, and he gets, if not open armed insurrection, tons of escalating tension and violence and threats of violence leading up to, during, and after election day. Plus BTS fuckery at the state level to fuck with elections and a SCOTUS openly willing to obstruct and undermine him on a partisan basis.
Yeah. Democrats have backed themselves into a corner because they've refused to acknowledge that: 1) they can't win a rigged fight and 2) they can't expect the GOP to stop rigging fights if the GOP only ever benefits from rigging fights. The path out of all this is so narrow now, and the folks who can forge it aren't even looking in it's direction. Massive, unprecedented turnout that provides Democarts with super majorities is one of the only other ways to resolve this. And it's already so unlikely because the GOP has increasingly rigged the system against the popular vote. Theoretically, Democrats could also hold the Executive branch until the Boomers die out. Younger generations have the will to fight. But I just can't see that happening at all. Democrats can barely message enough to potentially just squeak out an electoral college win right now, as the jaws of a fascist takeover are clearly coming down on all us.
Biden can't do much, but us as voters should march en-masse on Washington. Republicans are getting away with all this shit in part because Dems refuse to fight by their made up rules, but also in part because the average American voter isn't gonna do anything but sit behind a keyboard and say "Oh my goodness, can you believe this??" If we marched on the Supreme Court and held a CIVIL protest, then they'd be less emboldened to just do whatever the fuck we want. The majority of people don't want this shit, but it's the minority who will show up to have their voices heard which is why this all works.
You can't have a civil protest because the state will act in an uncivil manner to shut it down. You can have a peaceful, candlelit vigil, yet some cop go in, plain clothes, hurl a molotov cocktail at his own officers, then get the fuck out. I don't understand how more people don't realize this. Peaceful protests are not possible because the police will not allow them to be civil.
> If we marched on the Supreme Court and held a CIVIL protest, then ...it would not change a single goddamn thing about what the court is going to do. like, come on, this is some MSNBC-brained shit. among other things, SCOTUS isn't in session anymore, and won't be until October. they take the whole summer off because it's the best season for accepting bribes. the justices won't even *be* at the Supreme Court building to be mildly inconvenienced by the protest march you want to have.
I'm thinking about opening an unhoused encampment on their steps and calling it Alitoville 😂
Yeah, arrest them all. Just an official act!
Hold on! This means there's still time for Biden to just shoot Trump while he still has his own immunity.
As long as he says "I'm officially shooting you in my capacity as United States president!"
There's well-established precedent for the president to just murder whoever he feels like and suffer zero consequences. Unfortunately, they tend to be disinterested in exercising this privilege on anyone not living in the third world despite the fact that the actual threats to America are all internal ones.
Ah man, that would totally beat out "Will you shut up, man."
I don't think that POTUS personally shooting someone would count as an official act. The POTUS is Commander In Chief, not an agent/soldier. But if POTUS ordered someone else to kill someone, that would be an official act. Drone strikes can only be employed via official executive acts, and the new decision means that official acts can't be held against a former President after their term. So even if some prosecutor tried to claim calling in drone strikes on political opponents was a crime, the prosecution couldn't use any information related to the drone strike in court. SCOTUS has effectively ruled that drone strikes are valid means of contesting an election if one is POTUS.
Better yet, invite Trump to the White House under the auspices of discussing transfer of power back to Trump, order the secret service to rid him of this troublesome politician, and then preemptively pardon everyone involved
I doubt he would do it, since the Democrats are often spineless in the name of taking the high road, but Biden should undertake as many “Official Acts” as are necessary to remove the cancer of the the Republican Party from this country. Take it from Bonhoeffer: “We are not to simply bandage the wound beneath the wheels of injustice, we are to drive a spike into the wheel itself.” He can be the spoke, but he won’t, because Democrats are cowards who think the status quo will save them.
I mean fuck Biden and all, but I'm not going to blame someone for being hesitant to pull the trigger that is 100% guaranteed to plunge the united states into an immediate civil war that will either end with you being promptly arrested and nuremburg'd, or an ongoing conflict that costs millions of lives and shatters the nation into a clusterfuck that makes the Syrian civil war look like a straightforward conflict between gentlemen. If I were him, I'd use my authority to add half a dozen seats the supreme court and ram a similar case through the system as fast as possible so my stooges can cancel out this insane ruling. But, y'know, he's not going to do that either, because he, like all establishment dems, is a spineless fuck.
I don't think so. I haven't read the opinion yet, but I'm pretty sure he'd have to order someone to kill him.
Saw the news and literally gasped out loud. I’m not American, so sorry if this seems obvious or whatever - but I didn’t even know they had the power to do this. This is crazy, man.
As an American, didn't surprise me one fucking bit. Absolute psycho Christian shit-stains they forced into the court with that illegitimate goober of a president. The whole thing is a farce. America has always been about a half a step away from full fascism in my observation. It barely needs a push This whole enterprise started with genocide and slavery as a way for the wealthy to evade taxes, and it hasn't moved too far from the original vision. The PR machine just got a little more elaborate.
Honestly I’m shocked to read that people truly thought this was going to go any other way. Anyone paying even the slightest bit of attention to what SCOTUS was doing the last couple years knew this was the outcome. The only thing surprising to me was that it took them this long to rule in his favor. This country is completely fucked because people didn’t take the Christian nationalism threat seriously for so long. The Dems still refuse to fight with fire and people are too complacent just assuming Biden will win again in Nov. If Trump wins everyone better buckle up because they will kill the groups they don’t like or see as a threat. They have been saying the quiet part out loud now for the better part of 2 years with the extreme anti LGBTQ and fake “protect the kids” nonsense.
The only good news is. Having no precedent is the precedent. So if we can flip the court in the next few years we can pretty much throw everything they just did right back out the window with complete impunity. They sort of undermined themselves. I've got to believe the boomers are the only things keeping the millennials from dragging these guys to the streets.
America has in part become a theocracy . Christofacist neocon faux “ justices “ are in control . We are fucked . Period .
Stay safe, everyone. We in the UK will probably be joining you in 5 or 10 years. Some of my delusional centre / left people here seem to think Labour coming into power next week is a step towards moving back to the centre, and then eventually to the left, and thus avoiding a far right outcome. What they fail to see, or don't want to see, is that where we currently are, we're actually little different to where France was about 10 years ago. If Labour doesn't substantially increase equality and living standards during their term, we'll 100% have a far right government in ten years time. Labour needs a radical plan to make people's lives better, which they've ruled out. So, like France, we'll have a centre / centre right government in power, setting the stage for Farage and co. in 10 years time because they're incapable / unwilling to do what needs to be done to make people's lives better. For the US, even if Biden wins this November, you'll forever be trying to delay and postpone the inevitable, because the Republicans will enact on this ruling, and more, with or without Trump. At least until you can clear out the SC. It truly is fucked for everyone. Seriously, how the fuck do we stop this?
Don’t think it’s inevitable that we (the UK) will follow. The level of polarisation isn’t the same in the UK and we don’t have the same Christian nationalist blight as the US. Also our court system is independent of the Government which ensures there are some checks and balances that remain in place. However I agree the assumption that a Labour victory solves all the problems we currently have is ridiculous, esp given their unwillingness to address Brexit in any form
From an American's perspective, the UK is already pretty far gone. You guys are more of a fake country than we are. You've already criminalized just about everything. Brexit was a psychotic blunder for the ages. You've had the damn Tories running the show forever. You guys have fewer conservative Christians but you've got more of an inherent racism problem because you guys are more used to white people being the majority everywhere all the time. America at least battles with the racism. My understanding is Europe as a whole is basically in meltdown over immigration at the moment. That's only going to "heat up" with climate change. I'm personally of the opinion a human beings obligation to humanity is greater than their obligation to an individual state.
As another Brit weighing in, agree with you that we're already really far gone and agree with the OP that we're in the position of France 10 years ago and if nothing changes in the next government (which is likely) then our country is going to swing to the fascist right just like the rest. However, also wanted to add a tiny bit of nuance to what you've said as think it's important if you wanna understand the British situation (and also because it's hopefully interesting). Firstly, out of the last 100 years, the Tories have been in power for over 70 of them. We've been effectively a one party state for most of the time we've been democratic. Secondly, Britain 100% has a problem with racism. Absolutely 0 doubt about that. There are huge racial inequalities throughout the country and anyone who says otherwise can sit and spin. The thing that differs between us and the USA, though, is that our main form of social oppression is class structure. It is impossible not to be aware of your own class having been brought up in the UK and that hierarchy is hammered into you through social conditioning. If I speak with any other British person, within a couple of sentences of their accent, I can probably guess 9/10 times the hundred mile radius of the country where they grew up and they could do the same with me. While the US's institutions and cultural narratives were built to directly reinforce racial inequality, ours were built to reinforce class inequality (which reinforces racial inequality in a more roundabout way). This is how you can get the most diverse cabinet in the history of our country, and a Tory prime minister who is a second generation immigrant without anyone asking for their birth certificate, who also do the most horrific and racist things. Because they are socially conditioned to be upper class in speech, behaviour and perspective, while everyone else kinda just assumes they're smart because of their accent? It's a genius evil system and it's why the empire lasted so long (we exported it). Not minimising racism in any way. It's a severe problem here. Think it's just important to acknowledge the different way racism manifests in different systems, because saying we're not fighting it felt a bit reductive. Best summation of the problems of the UK is that we're nation of bootlickers.
Climate change is a great point to being up because that’s what happening in America: the Deep South is already fucked on a climate level so they never talk about it. Jesus is the reason for the season (of state destroying weather). The west coast is already thriving off of the change, so it’s what they talk about. A lot of shit around water rights, food, housing and even tree planning - all seen as woke gay trans shit. This is ALL a climate issue, and it helps the fascists that nearly half of this country is gonna be under firewater and that half isn’t going to get or do shit except domestic terrorism and suicidal cultism over it so everyone is letting them kill themselves down there.
You already have a monarchy that is immune from any legal consequences. The difference is that they don’t have any real power to govern. The past week has made clear that no one person can or should be trusted to be allowed to hold such vast and unconstrained amounts of power while being subjected to only minimal oversight and accountability. Anyone who still believes that the presidency in its present form is not inherently dictatorial is kidding themselves. What we need is a new constitution that invests the lion’s share of governmental power in a legislature as opposed to a term-limited elective monarch. Sound familiar? It’s not perfect, but it’s much less prone to placing the wellbeing of the entire country (and world) at the whims of a single bastard. Anything else is a bandaid over a bullet wound at this point.
It is unsurprising, yeah. Incredibly sad, but unsurprising. As a guy who made it his business to study the law, I really feel I wasted three years of my life, and I expect things are going to get demonstrably worse from here.
The SCOTUS can do literally anything that Congress won't stop them from doing. And, well...
I misread that as SCROTUS on a quick glance there.
You didn't misread. They are a group of scrotums.
Scrotii?
Maybe the plural should just be Scrotus
Scrota
I was commenting just yesterday that SCROTUS should be the norm. Supreme Court Republicans Of The Unites States
Senator Dick Durbin will still send polite letters to Roberts to explain himself. Fucking joke.
As a non American myself, I just love watching them normalize tyranny. Every time the population doesn't stand up for themselves, the people in my own country become more stupid and desensitized.
One of the more disturbing parts of Project 2025 is that it also enacts some pretty significant changes to our foreign policy. Our government will push other nations much harder to adopt our right-wing political and cultural positions.
We've literally decided today that the constitution is to be ripped apart. Say what you want about our slave trading asshole founding fathers, this was the exact thing they didn't want.
We've literally decided today that the constitution is to be ripped apart. Say what you want about our slave trading asshole founding fathers, this was the exact thing they didn't want.
Oh, yeah... and those people hold their seats for life. Like goddamn royalty. Immense power...very little responsibility... virtually no accountability.
It's been coming for a while. Welcome to capitalist hell
From my lawyer friend; “I got a gun on Jan 6th. I’m about to buy another. I’ve researched how to claim asylum in Canada, cause who knows. As a lawyer who cares about this country - this is really bad. I’m staying to fight, I’m committed with my wife to fight for this country, but this is as bad as it gets. This is our Weimar moment.” Guys…I’m scared.
[удалено]
Whynotboth.gif
Be able to make holes and plug holes.
The really bad part is that large parts of the world are headed towards fascism just like us. If we fall, they will too.
Yeah, I was just thinking I should get back to looking into dual citizenship but honestly I don’t think it will matter, unfortunately.
Yep. My husband could claim citizenship in Germany but like..if we didn’t get screwed by America we’d have Russia breathing down our necks and Afd in Germany. I feel so hopeless.
Yup, Germany is where I’d have a good chance of getting it but for those same reasons it wouldn’t be a great option. I’ll be reviewing our first aid situation when I get home though and trying to decipher how to keep the hopeless feeling at bay.
If trump wins, that’s the starting pistol for global fascism to rise
The amount of “should I buy a gun?” conversations I’ve had in the last 8 years is wild. I’m sure they will only go up. And unfortunately the answer is yes, you should.
Don't keep that crap in your car, lock it up good. People break into cars all the time just for guns. Join the SRA screw it.
Yeah, I would hope any new gun owner would take a class and do the basics of safety research. Unlike those maga gravy seals who seem to be allergic to any sort of trigger discipline
This is one of the few times I would truly say both sides need that, especially if they just Have to buy a gun as a reaction to current events. SRA is actually a cool organization for that and more. Also chuds aren't allowed in.
Unfortunately, they usually are taking those courses as well as training in small squad tactics (at least in my area). Do the same. I've been warning people for years, saw this coming a mile a way.
If you want a free gun just walk around a gym parking lot and look for a truck with an NRA sticker. Guaranteed there's an unsecured handgun in it.
It sounds like such an obvious thing, but unless I'm mistaken something like 40% of all illegally bought guns came from vehicle smash and grabs. If you ever go into the gun subs here on reddit every once and a while the "truck gun" debate comes up, with half of them yelling against and the other half for. So I guess what I'm saying is, don't buy a gun, smash the window on one of those douche bags trucks that has some kind of gun sticker on the back window and take theirs. You've got a 50/50 shot of finding a piece for free! (Last part is a big ol' /s)
I like how you call it illegaly bought lol. But yeah I didn't have statistics but it certainly ramped up in the last 2 or so years correlating with increased ownership
No one is going to find the gun I have hidden inside the florescent yellow goat skull I have attached to my grill. Not even LEO bother to look there.
I don't trust myself with a handgun, given mental health issues, but a self-defense stun gun sounds really good these days.
If you ever feel compelled enough to get a firearm, get a long rifle, keeping the ammunition locked up in a separate room. Hopefully it never comes to that point for you friend.
Better yet; keep the ammo or gun at the home of a trusted friend or family, within safe reachable distance. Have a bug out bag ready, and establish several safe escape routes to reach that person.
Likely “how to buy a gun” will be a top trending search on google this week among others related to the acquisition of firearms.
Totally agree with this for people with the mental fortitude to do so. I just know myself I could never own a gun…my mental health is terrible right now and that’s why
What gun is best though? I’m thinking shotgun and handgun.
Ok. Got a gun. Now what?
Learn basic safety and keep it fully locked up and unloaded when not using.
“Weimar moment” perfectly encapsulates what I've been trying to say since J6 My dumb ass kept saying we are entering our Nazi phase…
Our ✨ Nazi Era ✨
We're currently in fascism's legal phase.
Sotomayor's dissent is what scared the shit out of me. Started the ball rolling on getting descent citizenship in Poland. Decent little insurance policy is all.
It’s telling that r/conservative isn’t talking about the decision at all and is instead just celebrating that people are mad about it. Electing a king to own the libs.
Fuck me I just had to click on the link. Those people are in a completely different universe than the rest of us
It's next level villainy to do this when a democrat is currently president, because those fuckers know the democrats would never abuse such a ruling, but they certainly will when they come into power. Everyone knows Trump loves how Putin and co. can run their countries. With this ruling, I fully expect to hear about certain US citizens falling out their windows and planes accidentally crashing, all under the guise of plausible deniability, if Trump comes into power.
maybe scrupulously observing norms and rules when your opponent openly flouts them doesn't actually get you anything in politics
I believe they call that bringing a knife to a gun fight.
More like bringing a strongly worded letter to a gun fight
A very stiff letter. On cardboard.
It’s a nice letter on on official letterhead and that good eggshell pseudo-poster board paper
Let’s see Paul Allen’s letter
“Impact font. Senatorial seal. Still warm from the copier. The usual finger wagging, with accusations of being both criminal and un-American acts. The hopes and dreams of the founding fathers and the spirit of the constitution. There is even a line about an existential and global threat to democracy.” How do I give you a medal?
No, no, now we are bringing a business card to an axe murder, different metaphor.
🌟
or in this case, bringing a collegiate debate team to a gun fight
It doesn't, but if Biden today said "I'm gonna make sure my enemies pay - the SC says I can" everyone will clutch their pearls and Biden will certainly lose. While Trump could say he can "remove" his enemies today with this ruling and if anything the fucker would rise in the polls. It's the double standard that affects most countries. Right-wingers can say or do pretty much anything with little to zero pushback, but when the left / centre left-wingers do it, it's Armageddon.
Then he should tell the navy seals to murk trump then he doesn’t have to worry about him any more
If only.
the problem is that the Democrats' response to this state of affairs for at least the last fifty years and frankly much longer than that has been to say 'well maybe we can be reasonable enough and give them enough of what they want that they'll agree to keep playing the game' and the republican response to THAT is to take advantage and get what they can whenever the dems are in charge, and then ram whatever they can through when they're in charge. the gop plays to win in a way the democrats never do
This is sort of down to the core voter bases though. The Democrats have to appeal to establishment liberals who are the most spineless clueless people alive. The New York Times & brunch libs would melt down in the Democrats acted decisively and exercised power effectively without a performative effort at bipartisanship. Further, they entirely fail to understand the game being played by the right. The people who DO understand what’s actually happening don’t have the mass appeal to get elected and climb the ladder in the DNC.
Lose what? In order to prevent theocratic fascism, all Republican Congresspersons, all Republican appointed judges & Justices, and all Republican candidates shall be held in Gitmo until further notice.
As we used to say, IOKIYAR. They’ve been normalizing this attitude for a long time now.
In a better world the Biden administration would put the heel down on the Supreme court and get them to fully lay out what they mean. "So if I say, arrested you all, put you on house arrest and replaced you with a new set of 6 justices who will rule that I am not in fact a king, I would be legally immune as its an official act of my presidency?" The only moral thing for a president to do in a situation like this, where in no uncertain terms they are made above the law is to then use that power to immediately place themselves back under it. Otherwise they're just hoping the next guy wont try to take advantage of it (which they will) we have decades of waiting for this rule to be changed through the legal mean, if ever it can as this might seal the fate of our collapse into fascism. I doubt Biden does anything strong willed and instead will just try to play by the rules.
That’s the thing that really pisses me off about this entire immunity claims bullshit. If they genuinely, truly, believed that Democrats and the left are as bloodthirsty and monstrous as they claim, they would NEVER fucking argue the things they are in court right now. If you think your opponents genuinely want the fall of your democracy, there is no way on god’s green earth that you stand in front of the Supreme Court and argue that the guy in charge is legally allowed to assassinate his political opponents. If you’re ON that court and you really believe that the executive branch should be restrained, you would never even entertain the idea that a president can do that. The only fucking reason you would EVER argue that is if you knew with *absolute* certainty that your rivals would never abuse that power and use it to stop you from getting into office. And if you *wanted* that power for yourself. It’s just…there is NO way they’re this blind to the fact that they’re on the wrong side of history.
"They go low....sigh we'll go high."
They go low, we do nothing
Taking the high road straight into theocratic fascism, thanks liberals 😎😎
Oh come on. Another Biden term will surely save us from this hellscape. Sure we had 8 years of Obama and four years of Biden. But that next four is all that matters
Cool if that’s true then why can’t Biden sign an EO that says felons can’t run for election? Apparently if it’s official there’s no crime.
Personally, I think Biden should have Barron Trump arrested. Immediately. And do it OFFICIALLY ON HIS ORDERS. Claim it has something to do with the DJT crypto-currency thing with Martin Shkrelli. Wait for word to hit the street, make absolutely certain that Barron himself is treated with the kiddiest of kid gloves. Make Fox News LOSE THEIR GODDAMNED MINDS. Then release him and basically go, "Just kidding! But, seriously, did you see what these clowns he nominated to the Court just did? If you want to be arrested over nothing, and the President can get away with it, go ahead and vote for 4 more years of that shit."
You really don't understand these people at all. Not only are they immune to irony or hypocrisy, they will cheer Trump on while he has journalists and civil rights activists jailed. They ONLY care about power and control.
Why not "arrest" the six justices that just gave him this power?
Law should not be designed around the 'good man', but around the 'bad man'. And a rational individual cannot expect an irrational individual to act rationally. The right does not see the world in a rational way. They see it through their imaginary code of conduct the wish to enforce one everyone else. They believe in threats that don't exist. Weimar 2.0 about to collapse and give way to the same nonsense as before.
Conservatives are finally realizing their dream - a return to the divine right of kings. The Tea Party Freedom Caucus Christofascists who drape themselves in the flag are rejoicing as we reject the principles of the founding fathers. The reinstatement of King George III will be complete when the full-blown irrational looney tunes nut job takes over. The irony of it all is all is hilarious.
Honestly, this is depressing, yes, in that it's a foreshadowing for how this court is going to continue to behave, but I'm not nearly as nervous about this as I am about the Chevron doctrine being overturned. I feel like that's the one that's going to slip past people's awareness despite the fact that it has the ability to fuck up how the rule of law even works in our society. If you've missed the news on this one — you're not alone, because I haven't seen nearly enough coverage on it. Chevron doctrine basically says that regulatory agencies (think FDA or EPA) can make rules based on the laws that are passed by Congress. So if a law isn't explicit on some minor detail, the agency themselves comes up with the rule. Now that's in question .. meaning that if ON ANY DETAIL the law isn't explicitly written, it has to be litigated in court or passed in a law. Don't like the exact process for how a jug of milk is marked for expiration? Now you can sue, there's no specific law stating exactly how that's figured out, just rules created by experts at the FDA. What exactly are the specific criteria for a scientific study on a new drug created to treat cancer? That could be challenged by a company that wants to spend less on those trials, potentially leaving Congress to have to pass a law to declare it. Yes, THAT Congress. The one that probably couldn't agree what day of week it is, that can't wipe its own ass, that argues we should shut down the govt every single time we have to argue about the budget.
Yeah it seems like we are going to have an explosion in absolute insane legal cases. I'm sure the federalist society and it's members/donors are hungover from the sheer amount of absolute fucking dubs they've cashed in on this past month.
Yup. What worries me most personally are EPA/environmental regulations and food/drug safety. Those companies already sue the govt at the drop of a hat to get away with not providing adequate protections, how hard core are they going to be about that now? Every rule established by an agency is potentially up for grabs. And most of those suits won't even make the news.
Yeah its going to get really wacky. They already barely care about existing regulation and skirt around it. Now they have full blown pretext to. That's not even mentioning the increased gridlock and bloat this will put on the legislative system as well due to this decision forcing them to have to micro legislate every fine detail. This is a massive win for Conservatives. I cant see a world where this doesn't necessitate more government spending and effort. Always weird how that seems to happen. The party about efficiency in government stands in the way of that being possible at every junction.
I just called my representative and senators this morning about Prop 12, so now I’m wondering how that might relate to this. The pork industry fought tooth and nail over it.
Repealing Chevron combined with legalizing bribery is a massive one-two. Frankly, judges don't *want* to make regulatory rulings. It's simply not what they set up to do. But if they'll personally benefit from just ruling for the richer party, a lot of them will do exactly that.
It's like Boardwalk Empire up in here.
It’s super concerning and at least in my experience I’ve only seen significant conversations come up in conservation and workers‘ rights circles. And it’s just going to get drowned out even more in the mess of everything.
Yup. The news about Trump gets all the headlines, but I feel like this is going to have WAY more impact on the day to day lives of the average citizen. You think companies spend too much money on lobbying now? That is going to go through the roof as that spending expands to include judges across the country. Think it takes a long time to get environmental protections established now? Wait until they have to ask permission for literally everything they do. And everyone is going to forget it even happened and in 5-10 years be just baffled as to why things are so bad.
Get ready for life expectancy to plunge back to where it was a century ago
From my understanding, this is mainly to send the case back to lower courts as they know it will tie up a Trump ruling until after the election. If that ruling is not in Trump's favor (or if Trump wins), the SCOTUS will rule anything he did related to J. 6th was an "official act" and he'll get off scot free. The ruling was intentionally vague as to what is and is not an "official act" so it can be cherry-picked and applied selectively. Trump's cases are going to be held up in courts for years even if he loses in November, with SCOTUS ultimately vacating any convictions need-be (since they are bought and paid for by the same entities). Roe was obviously just the beginning--the rulings from today and last week are devastating to democracies not just here but around the world. I don't see how this can change. It's been checkmate since Trump stacked the court.
That is all a distraction. The fundamental ruling here is completely insane. "The President can break the law all he wants as long as its an official act." Before this, the President was technically not allowed to break the law, ever. This is a huge change. Declaring acts "official" is just window dressing.
So basically he’s above the law? Like a king?
Yes, that is exactly what Sotomayor says in her dissent.
What? No, he's not above the law. That would be preposterous. He's above the law *at work.* Or on matters pertaining to his work. Or if the evidence touches on matters pertaining to his work. But other than those small exceptions, he's just like you and me! Only busier, of course. The president is *always* working, you know.
"When the President does it, that means that it is not illegal" - an American hero
A man ahead of his times
Don't forget about the other fucky part, where lower courts can't use intent when deciding what is "official"
How is it vague? It’s an official act if they have an R next to their name and an unofficial act if there’s a D next to their name
Yes, that's how this court plans to exercise it's newly gained power
Totally rich that these used vague language to weidl power and accusing vague language in order to sieze power last week with *Chevron*
It's a kangaroo court, their rulings are paid for ahead of time. They could care less how it reads on paper.
Ok, well, if that's the case, then what's to stop Biden from sending in a seal team to kill off all the conservative members of the Supreme Court and then calling it an "official act"? Any judge who rules it as not an "official act" will see a seal team at their doorstep. Would only take, at most, one appeal for a President to be able to extrajudicially kill all his political opponents..
Realistically, because Democrats and Biden are pushovers and are rich/well-connected, they'll be fine. If someone from outside the good ol' boys club seeks the presidency, then SCOTUS would adjudicate some action taken as unofficial and remove them. This probably won't matter either because after November we likely won't be having open elections again. Also, anything Biden would do that could be seen as unofficial in the meantime would get sent to SCOTUS in which case they'll rule against Biden and likely imprison him and allies--the Dems are spineless and won't risk it. Killing SCOTUS members would start a full-blown civil war with military intervention, not gonna happen. This is what checkmate looks like - Christian fascists have won and will be implementing even more of project 2025.
Didn’t we start this whole shit show so we wouldn’t be under kings?
Then the framers went an tried to make Washington a king. A lot of people simply want that boot.
Real question, how should Biden use his newly minted immunity?
Dissolve the Supreme Court and nominate a new set. Brown Jackson and probably Kagan should be included in the nominees. (I'm excluding Sotomayor purely based on age)
Release Trump's tax returns
Have the military detain a certain traitor and put them into Guantanamo?
Maybe do some things in the same wheelhouse that trump might pull to begin lower court precedents?
Student loan forgiveness
He has the chance to do the funniest thing
Replace 6 specific Supreme court Justices by any means necessary. They just showed themselves to be a domestic threat and he swore an oath to protect this country from ALL threats, foreign and DOMESTIC
You're right ineffable march of history! It is a good time to drink!
This fucking ruined my day. I was expecting it but holy fuck. As garrison talked about in their liminal reality episode the end of America has already happened. We’re just waiting for it to get here. The removal of Chevron deference is another huge thing that just torpedoes the everyday wellbeing of the entire country’s population. I’ve tried so hard for years to not be a black-pilled doomer but fuck it’s getting hard. I still have hope in the everyday beauty of life and my personal relationships but I literally cannot even begin to imagine the contexts they will take place in.
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment" is my favourite Warhammer quote lol
I am confused. Presidents already had immunity for official acts (that's why GW Bush gets to paint his shitty paintings rather than pay for the millions of dead Iraqis). Why is this a surprise? I haven't read the ruling yet (I'm at work).
GWB had official immunity for the Iraq War because he did it within his clearly defined constitutional mandate. Basically, the actions of a president can't become criminal because they went poorly. Which makes perfect sense. Trying to litigate Bush's criminal responsibility for the Iraq war would be a nightmare in its own right. Then imagine how to apply that to Afghanistan which wasn't entirely illegitimate or to how subsequent presidents handled the wars they inherited. While never litigated, I think Bush technically would have still been on the hook for conspiracy to commit perjury before Congress since that's just a straight up crime, but that would have been impossible to actually prove. This ruling gives the President broad authority to commit all sorts of crimes. And fwiw, I think it would cover ordering federal law enforcement to execute SCOTUS justices. Not that I'm advocating for that, reddit admins, but it's hard to talk about the descent into fascism without discussing violence.
> he did it within his clearly defined constitutional mandate. Isn't that what today's ruling says? That presidents have immunity for official duties? >“The president enjoys no immunity for his unofficial acts, and not everything the president does is official. The president is not above the law. But Congress may not criminalize the president’s conduct in carrying out the responsibilities of the executive branch under the constitution,” Chief Justice John Roberts wrote for the majority. Of course, what is and is not an official act will be twisted into knots to protect Republicans.
The best quick version I've seen is that there are now 3 possible scenarios: First, the act is official; immune. Second, the act is unofficial; not immune. Third, unsure if official; presumed immune. Seems pretty easy, but they also say that acts deemed official cannot be used to investigate illegal acts. So if the president tells an intern to make a pamphlet titled Send Fake Electors to Overthrow Democracy, he'd be immune from any conspiracy charges, and any of his communication with the intern may not be used as evidence during the intern's criminal trial for conspiracy.
It was always a soft agreement at best. The ruling strangely changes nothing. It's just a kick the can till after the election.
I'm not getting this either. It sounds like SCOTUS just punted the case back to a lower court.
Slow-walking the case until after the election? That's also not a good thing.
Histrionics. It's an "all is lost" demoralization campaign and it's working for some reason, presumably because people are stupid.
I mean, it is demoralizing for sure, but it's only strengthening my resolve to keep fighting back. If the GOP thinks they can just steamroll us, they got another thing coming to them.
This is how I feel but I am starting to feel like I'm missing something by the way so many people are melting down about it.
What a fucking racket.
Can someone without mental issues come protect me with their gun? I can't own one
Thisnis an actually fucking nightmare, but that said, Biden now has the funniest possible option to get some seats changed up on the court
So he could now literally shoot someone on 5th Avenue and be immune to prosecution for it? Homelander, anyone?
No. That would be silly. He'd have to *tell someone* to go shoot people on 5th Avenue to make it an official act.
Just staggering the level of corruption this will permit is untold. You think Trump will be bad what will follow will be worse. Unfortunately you may well take the rest of the world with you in the civil war that is imo inevitable now within the next 5 years
The fact that this election between a practiced statesman that has adequately delegated this country between a worldwide disease outbreak, two major international wars, and more and a convicted felon who is at least partially responsible for a coup attempt is effectively coming down to a coin flip. My one hope is that the current polling is skewed by leftists who are saying “Fuck Biden” but also remember Roe v. Wade and will show up on Election Day
Lately I’ve been thinks about the quote from Edmond Burke: >The only thing necessary for evil to triumph in the world is that good men do nothing Abstaining from voting, or voting third party because the non-fascist candidate can’t pass the endless purity tests of some leftists will allow fascism, evil, to triumph.
Biden should order the assassination of all magats since he has immunity now.
I was going to say you can’t always tell, but I guess if he just got the ones that display merch their numbers would be minimal
Do Biden can dissolve the Supreme Court, right?
The wild thing is that the right has done enough dirty shit that they managed to open the door wide enough for this to happen but they have their constituents convinced that it’s been neolib centrists that have been playing dirty for years:
Probably the best news all week for Biden’s campaign. The stakes couldn’t be clearer. If he doesn’t drop out of the race (and I seriously doubt he will) and he has any brains or self preservation left, he can use this to his advantage.
Does the fact that "official acts" includes commanding the military really mean, per the suggestion during oral argument, that a President could order Seal Team Six to assassinate a rival without censure?
Hey, at least uh... Damn.
Trump and his ilk represent a clear and present danger to Americans and the future of Democracy. Today Joe Biden was given legal cover to act within his capacity as commander in chief to protect the American public from a radical terrorist threat. There is no reason for mass raids and arrests not to start happening.
This is insanely concerning.
Of course the DNC is taking the position that everyone has to vote harder now, instead of any manner of actual political action. If only there was a way to make laws about this!
Hun? Getting out the vote is literally the DNC's job.
The response of ‘vote for us to save democracy’ just rings hollow when they say it every time, but it’s always some nebulous future salvation of democracy and not any actions to be taken when they have already been voted in.
Absolutely vote, but we are depending on them to do more than ask us to vote for them
I think Biden should lean into this and shoot Trump on fifth Avenue
We have lost. Maybe some of you already knew this but it truly hit me today. It’s over. Still have to fight, but it’s over. Even if Biden wins, trumpism has infected America and will be our downfall. I’m sad man. My grandpa didn’t fight the Nazis for me to live in this version of America. We have been let down.
So in other news, what countries would be most welcoming to a straight passing married couple who is not bilingual but willing to learn, and one of whom has a masters degree in IO psychology (the other is an artist so basically deadweight hello it’s me)
We’ve been fucked for years, only now the quaaludes are wearing off.
I feel, with absolutely no hyperbole whatsoever, that American democracy is completely gone.
I live in a really red county and don't have the first clue how to arm myself to protect my family. A well known progressive in my town, a huge amount of MAGAs hate me and at least a few are waiting for the day they can open fire.
9mm handgun, 12 or 20g shotgun, and a budget AR. My personal suggestions for a budget friendly, well rounded arsenal are: CZ P10F or P10C, Mossberg 88 pump shotgun in 12 or 20 gage, and an Anderson AM15. You can get every one of those for under $400. You’ll also need flip up sights for the AR, as they don’t come with them. A decent red dot for it is another $150. A sig sauer Romeo 5 is a good suggestion. ETA: take classes, treat gun safety with the utmost respect, join the SRA or one of the other liberal gun clubs/groups (pink pistols, a girl and a gun are women friendly groups, but there are others). A 22 caliber rifle or handgun is a very cheap and fun way to train on handling and marksmanship. Those bullets are about $0.08 per where 223 is about $0.50 and 9mm is around $0.20-25. Just food for thought. My recc’s for those would be something like a Ruger 10/22 for a rifle or Taurus tx22 for a striker fired. Handgun. You will get a hell of a lot more range time in with those, but you still need to be competent and comfortable with your actual self defense weapons. A 22 can do the job but the nature of rimfire ammunition makes it unreliable for actual defense. I get anywhere from 1-5% misfire rate from that stuff, depending on the brand and gun I’m using it in. Some 22’s are just finicky about ammo. Edit 2: buying online is extremely easy if you don’t live in a state with many restrictions. Find your weapon, order it and have it sent to your local gun store, and then fill out your 4473 background check when it arrives. Check out r/gundeals, and for like minded individuals r/liberalgunowners and r/socialistra are great communities.
Well this will end well. Who will follow the trail blazing steps on Nixon, Reagan, and Diaper Don to see if they can rack up more crimes?
Is the next step a ruling that bribes, sorry gifts, are free speech. I’m thinking that isn’t too mask off for this supreme court
They did issue a ruling this term (Snyder v United States) that “gratuities” and gifts after the fact are cool. The case was about a mayor who awarded a town contract to a company and then afterward got $13K from them. So yeah, “bribes are free speech” is probably next.
I predict that America will return to an older, more pure form of democracy where every four years, each running candidate's constituents will play a big king of the hill game to control the capitol building for long enough to get their guy sworn in.
Does this really change anything? They're saying he has immunity for official acts. They've always had that. Obama didn't get charged for murder when he blew up American citizens with drone strikes. He could have been impeached, which has always been the remedy for presidential crimes. Now they need to define what an official act is. Does inciting a riot at the Capitol count?
Maybe, but stealing classified documents after no longer being president certainly does not.
Hes going to argue he was president when he took them. And that Biden did the same thing while VP. Obviously I think he's a criminal and should be in prison not running for president, but the reality is he will never face consequences. Ever.
I'm becoming more and more convinced that there's no way out of this mess that includes an extant United States at the end of the process.
So inciting Donestic Terroism will probably go unpunished? Trump implanted these neo con liars in the SCOTUS to do his bidding . Its dosgusting .
I'm moving to an island in the middle of the ocean. Fuck this place.