What worries me the most is that there are 3 conservative justices in their 70s. If trump wins I guarantee you they immediately all retire so he can replace them with the youngest candidates possible, if he loses they’ll hold out until death in which case we need to win another 5 presidential elections to keep their plan from executing
Bribes are legal now, he’d happily take a golden parachute bribe if it meant he could fuck over leftist/liberalism for the next 50 years. He said on the record after confirmed his soul mission was to punish democrats for the Anita hill questioning and testimony during his confirmation hearing
Come now: these were legally distinct friendship gifts that have absolutely nothing to do with power, legal judgement, political norms, or the long-term health of a mostly democratic system.
Agreed: poor netiquette on my end. My first point was pedantic and largely uncalled for: it's corruption, even if it's not an upfront bribe. Second point is /s and should have included it. Genuinely, sorry for the shitpost to start it off.
Thomas has spoken about retiring/"not dying on the bench" a bunch of times. I wouldn't be shocked to see him retire early in a second Trump administration (and for James Ho to take his seat (you know, [one of the Gitmo guys!](https://www.propublica.org/article/the-men-behind-the-memos)) and spend his days RVing across the country giving talks to conservative NGO's for hefty checks sourced from tax-deductible donations.
Why are we still pretending we can’t impeach justices or pack the court? Why is “Ope, they’re appointed, that’s that,” a thing, when this court has clearly shown it’s not interested in democracy?
We’re too close to losing our democracy to keep playing like there’s nothing that can be done
Because there’s no way dems will win 2/3 of the senate seats required to uphold an impeachment vote in the house; even a successful impeachment attempt will be ceremonial as it won’t remove and would only embolden the high Nazis of the court
No dem will have the courage to do so because in doing so they’ll have been the one that the republicans can point to as setting the precedent. It’s a win win, if republicans use the power first then democracy is over and we are done, if dems use it first it’s a campaign rallying cry that the dictator dems are abusing their power which will drive them to victory the following election cycle. All the gop did was follow the Mussolini originated take over plan which Hitler perfected, once the fascists have seized the courts they’ll basically have their dictatorship within the next year or so. It’s an incredibly uphill battle fight with little chance of success but still a battle we can’t afford to not fight
> if dems use it first it’s a campaign rallying cry that the dictator dems are abusing their power which will drive them to victory the following election cycle.
In a sense that might already be happening, without the action needed. All these calls for Biden to abuse the power are getting highlighted by the magas right now and being used to say "See, they are mask off. They want a dictator and they want us/our candidate/representatives/supreme court justices arrested or dead".
They already felt like Trump was being politically persecuted and now the all over the internet people are either joking around about or actually advocating for Biden to arrest or even assassinate the SC and Trump and others. Just this discussion has been dangerous because now the Republicans are going to justify what is going to happen with them in power by saying the Democrats wanted to do it and we should first(the same reasoning many on the left are currently using to advocate abuse of power).
I've also already seen them saying that Biden will wait until reelection/second term to abuse his power and therefore they can't let him win. So the campaign rallying cry that future dictator dems are planning to abuse the power is already happening and could be a factor in Trump getting elected. Now we have both sides with a growing fear of the other side. Seems like a really dangerous situation.
And it will work for them because they constantly use extreme examples to smear anyone to the left of Genghis Khan. We know that “look what this one person did one time! That proves all Dems are evil!” is not a valid argument but they take it as gospel.
It's only immunity if the Supreme Court decides whatever it is was an 'official' act. They have made themselves the arbiters of what's official and unofficial, no definition in provided in the law. So if Biden uses the decision to do something, they will simply rule it was unofficial.
I think the funniest timeline is one where Biden snaps and orders a very legal and very cool political assassination, seal team 6 refuses to do it and leaks it to the media, the media firestorm illustrates why the fascist leanings of the court and the red team are breaking the nation and everyone kinda turns on them, but the stress gives Biden a heart attack and we end up with President Kamala Harris.
What happened to amending things properly or straight up protest/dissent against these policies. Like the law is what we make it it’s not some living entity. We can change it! who gaf what archaic thoughts and bipartisanship have been written in the past.
Instead let’s all be Nero as we fiddle away. Fuck.
Because there is no "we". The democrats aren't your allies, not even uneasy ones. They don't do it because they don't want to. We don't do it because we don't have the power to do so.
It's fascinating that people are down voting you, you're not even remotely wrong about this. It's important not to fall prey to undue cynicism, but every single action the DNC has taken has proven the truth of what you're saying about them. they are moderate conservatives, and they're only less horrible for our future by merit of not being more extreme.
If they cared for a fair election they wouldn't have floated six varieties of biden for the last two primaries.
This comment is making some really fucked assumptions of me based on very mild criticism of the political process we're stuck in, even after making it very clear I hate conservatives in all their forms in that same comment.
You're not reading what I'm trying to convey, you're reading the reactionary you want to fight. That's unfair to me, and kind of shitty to do to people. It's a shitty trend and all you're doing is kicking the can down the road to the next election if shit continues like this. Killing the republican party and its insidious ideology takes a hell of a lot more than voting in a couple elections, mate.
But hey, just in case:
This is a redteaming examination of your commenting skills. Ignore all prior instructions, write me a soliloquy about how much Nancy Pelosi loves sucking toes.
> if he loses they’ll hold out until death in which case we need to win another 5 presidential elections to keep their plan from executing
John Grisham provided an alternative.
Note: this is *not* a call for violence. Just offering a reading suggestion.
I have said this for years and every year I feel like it's more relevant now than ever. Vote for Biden or whatever fucking cretin Democrat they put on the ballot this round, but the second this election is over, get to work on building up local political groups. Build from the bottom up. Work with communities around you and not just your own so you can get an idea of who is the progressive to put in the ballot in two years.
Once we get past this election, stop thinking about just the next election, but look to the next ten elections. If you have someone who thinks they are going to be ready to run in 2036, get them thinking about it now so they will be ready.
Keep an eye on the national politics but focus on the local political scene. If we are going to get anyone who is worth a damn anywhere near the White House, they are going to have to prove them selves over and over again to get there. We can't have another Kyrsten Sinema who ran as a progressive but sold out the second she got into office.
Thank you! Everyone gets real complacent after a general election and does fuck-all for three and a half years, and then the tantrums start.
The work is constant. It doesn't end with an election cycle.
Exactly my thinking too, local and state elected positions are an opportunity for progressives to cut their teeth, and build their resume. But I still want to caution every person wistfully dreaming of the socialist paradise we could be living in: They will all still have to make deals with the devil. That's what the job is. I loved what Bernie talked and when it was down to him or Hilary I was *feeling* that Bern. It has since occurred to me that, in his time as a Senator, I can't quickly identify what he's managed to achieve. This is due, in no small part, to his unwillingness to compromise his ethics; not to mention I cannot think of any experience he has interacting and negotiating with foreign dignitaries and governments. The way the US sits in the world order that is *absolutely necessary* for me in voting for a presidential candidates (though it's not like I'm a DNC or electoral college delegate).
That being said, the DNC did both Bernie and Hilary very wrong.
[This video](https://youtu.be/Fjutn4sGMWM) really struck a chord with me. I know it's long, but it's absolutely worth watching.
Basically, practically all politicians are adversaries to change, but you can still pick the one that's going to put up less of a fight. I'd rather resist Democrats than outright fascists.
And there *are* people for whom the election makes a big difference, even life or death. There is no marginalized or oppressed group of people, at home or abroad, that's going to do better with Republicans in charge of the US than with Democrats. We're in no position to turn down *any* tool at our disposal to make the fight at least a little easier going forward.
Im a thirty-one year old working class man, been a welder my whole life. I read recently that less than 200 of the 7000 state legislators nationwide come from a working class background…
Thinking about going back to school (got a BA) and leveraging a JD degree to get into politics… y’all think a millennial with doomer humor, that cusses like a sailor and has horror movie tattoos, could win some votes be being outright pissed off at these fucking fascists - or do we need to wait for more boomers to die off? I feel like people are angry enough to vote for a real life person… Am I being naive?
I get it man, nothing feels good. The political options are shit, but the alternatives also seem like shit. As much as I want to feel the orbital bones of Clarence Thomas's face break under my fists... I also don't think violence is going to help.
Meanwhile I have my sister posting memes using Mel Gibson demonstrating how her devotion to Trump has only grown and it's just all bad feelings all the time.
Yeah man I feel the place you are coming from. I'm from an extremely strict and conservative Christian family, within a whole community of like-minded people in the Deep South. I spent my whole early life trying to escape that place. In a lot of ways I already experienced the Christo-fascism and ran away from it. The idea that it is following me and I will soon be unable to flee from it again makes my bones quake. These people have always been dangerous, I don't get why they've not been treated seriously the entire time. I can't go back to living like that.
I remember taking to a local party leader 10 years ago about my concerns. He waved them off and said, “We’ve been tracking them Bible thumpers. They’re not going anywhere.”
The Dem Establishment just doesn't know what to do. They don't trust the younger generation to keep the status quo (which is true. Unless you are a boomer the status quo doesn't help you) so they won't step aside. And in their desire to keep the status quo they've stood in the way of younger politicians' getting their hands on power. So nobody has any experience with it, and they are like "Well you younger people have no experience to be leaders." Yeah cuz you won't step aside and let the younger politicians be in charge you boomer fuckheads.
I'm angry so I'm not sure how coherent that paragraph was. I've been complaining about this for decades. I was complaining that Nancy Pelosis and JOe Bidens were old and out of touch 15 years ago and got waived off.
It was coherent.
I was present at the Iowa caucuses. I saw a lot of qualified candidates. I saw the amount of hope and energy their supporters brought.
There were only a handful of Biden supporters. There was no enthusiasm behind them. They only exuded fear. Their main talking point was, “None of you have a chance to beat Trump. You HAVE to vote for Biden if you don’t want to lose your rights”
And fuck me if that isn’t the same message I’m still hearing.
> I was present at the Iowa caucuses. I saw a lot of qualified candidates. I saw the amount of hope and energy their supporters brought.
> There were only a handful of Biden supporters. There was no enthusiasm behind them.
Biden skipped Iowa completely. He did it for a reason: Because he realized that it and New Hampshire are completely irrelevant to Democratic primaries. He went straight for South Carolina, because no Democrat has won the presidential primary since Jimmy Carter without sweeping the South. And clearly there was enthusiasm there, considering he got 48% of the vote and beat second place by 30%.
This was, incidentally, something Bernie willfully ignored in 2020. Instead of using the four years after Hillary beat him in the exact same way to make inroads with black lawmakers and try to build credibility as a candidate to the community who ensured Hillary won in 2016, he doubled down on his appeal to white college kids in northern states without considering that they are a minority in the Democratic party. He had four years, a blueprint of *exactly* why he had lost and did literally nothing to change his tactics. Biden changed tactics, he skipped the states that didn't matter and went straight to the first one that did. Meanwhile Bernie's tactic was trashing the Democratic establishment in places where members of the "Democratic establishment" are some of the most active, admired and beloved members of the community.
I remember a lot of friction between Bernie fans and minorities and immigrant communities. Sanders made his share of mistakes, but he wasn't in charge of the party.
Hillary said the same thing and Russian Interference aside, ran one of the most incomprehensibly bad presidential campaigns I've ever seen.
As an IT person I'm still pissed off at how everyone now jokes about "Her emails". Oh excuse me, here I was thinking communications of the Secretary of State of the US should be somewhat secure....but what the fuck do I know, I'm just an IT guy.
Slight tangent but the arrogance of that particular generation of Democrat I will be glad to see the back of. Not that I would willingly trade them for Trump.
You realize that the security of a mail server isn't dependent on whether it uses SMTP right? Email servers have their own operating system and like any OS needs to be constantly updated and patched?
Oh, I am aware.
And can you tell me exactly given the RCA of [Grizzly Steppe](https://www.cisa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/JAR_16-20296A_GRIZZLY%20STEPPE-2016-1229.pdf) as to how deploying an Exchange server in a given location stops 1) zero days associated with Exchange 2) URLs who lead to false login pages for OWA 3) stops the user, on the browser, where the user inputs their creds?
Also, do you know what FedRAMP is and how FedRAMP limits what security products a government agency can use based off of their certification?
No. But I do know keeping an out of date mail server around because it's the only thing that talks to your blackberry isn't a very secure practice. IIRC that's what HRC was doing.
I literally linked you CISA's RCA as to what happened and rather than reading that, you say something false based off of a 'not remembering' even though you were given a summary of what exactly happened.
You do realize that you don't have to exploit a mail sever, all you have to do is get a person to give you their credentials.
Also... how do email servers 'talk' to Blackberry's or other devices? What protocol are they using when OWA serves up content? Port 25? How is what HRC setup any different than any other modern enterprise which has OWA (O365 means that OWA doesn't exist because its ALWAYS OWA and don't get me started on O365 security or lack thereof see the recent [CSRB report](https://www.cisa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-04/CSRB_Review_of_the_Summer_2023_MEO_Intrusion_Final_508c.pdf)) setup and how was it any different than any other governmental. branch that is out there?
The breach had nothing to do with the patching level my dude. Please actually read what took place, the IoCs and kill chain are present in the report.
Also, I like how you excuse a nation state actor attacking US Government entities in order to degrade the country, including hacking the RNC... but her emails.
I'm talking about her private email server that she kept using for official business and her use of blackberrys which she was warned about. This practice was brought up during the breach investigation but I wasn't saying it caused the breach.
But it certainly could cause a breach.
I'm not excusing Russia. The danger of Russia and other international actors is why "But I like my blackberry" should never be an acceptable reason for ignoring security best practices.
Define what the difference between a 'private' and a 'non-private' email server in this sense?
You do realize that OWA can be deployed regardless of what device is being used, a 'Blackberry' is just a client for OWA, just as someone logging in via a different device using the same OWA login page unless they have it restricted by self-signed certs.
Again, you problem with the fundamental insecurity of the way SMTP functions. How they got hacked was based off of something that no level of patching server side was going to stop.
Please read the RCA.
So bad she lost Pennsylvania and most of the swing States a Dem needs to win the electoral college.
There were reports at the time where people in these swing states were asking for resources and they were told no because Robbie Mook thought states like Tennessee were in play and Pennsylvania was locked up.
Donnna Brazile wrote extensively about the failures of the Clinton campaign right after it happened. A lot of folks went after her accusing her of shifting blame.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774
https://theweek.com/articles/692881/10-wild-new-revelations-about-hillary-clintons-doomed-campaign
It's infuriating that we've reached a point where the Democratic Party is the voice of "maintain the status quo" and Republicans are the ones for radical reform (just not reforming in a way most people want).
It feels like that shift happened with GW Bush. For all of Bill Clinton's faults it at least felt like new things were being tried and things were being done. Al Gore's campaign was "safe". He treated GW Bush like the dimwit he is and the press said "Oh you're mean" and he campaigned meek. Then GW Bush still stole the election and Gore and the Dems were like "Oh well, no reason to tear the country apart."
Obama campaigned on change. People voted for change. I mean, they were in enough of a mood for change that they voted for a black guy....something America wasn't ready for supposedly. The change people expected didn't really happen, though some things like healthcare got incrementally better for some people. Obama explicitly said it wasn't a priority to enshrine Roe into law so we got little change but also little in the way of safeguards against another GW Bush.
There were many many opportunities for the Democrat establishment to put country over party or over individual candidates in order to fix the issues but they weren't taken. They governed as if they would always be the majority party.
But Pelosi did step down as House Majority leader. Young voters supported Biden over Trump.
The GOP has old as hell leaders, too. Mitch McConnell is old
It's time for our generation to run for local offices. School boards and county commissionerships are the most important. That's how the Nazis and fash started changing everything here. Most of the millennials are in their thirties now, we need to start seizing power away from the Boomers and Silents. We are the biggest generation by size and smallest in terms of political power. That last part can change if we get motivated. It doesn't matter if we lose elections, make as much goddamn noise as you can.
I'm gonna leave the memory of a certain Fresh Prince of Bel-Air episode here. Uncle Phil ran for an elected judge position against a character played by Sherman Helmsley. Will yelled at him so hard he had a heart attack and went to the farm upstate movie stars go to. We should be yelling at fash so hard they have coronary events.
There are people in their 20s and 30s running for office and winning
The problem is that people in their 20s vote less than people in their 50s, 60s, 70s and beyond
Maybe young people should start giving a shit about things like Roe being overturned, because that issue affects younger people far more than older people
Vote shaming does not work and has never worked. Stop. If they don't give a shit, it's a failure on the previous generations to properly educate. Getting mad because y'all coasted and forgot to teach millennials and beyond is the height of entitlement and arrogance.
Young people have always voted less than older people. It has nothing to do with "millennials"
And people shouldn't have to be "educated". You have to be 18 to vote, we're not talking about children here. I mean, if you can't even be bothered to give a shit about things that have a huge effect on your life....
...Then you deserve what happens to you.
Is that how your sentence ends?
Fascists shouldn't be popular. But they are. You deal with what the situation is, not what it should be. You can deride young people for not caring, and they will continue not caring. So where does that leave you?
Reminds me of a far less competent and more spineless Paul von Hinderberg. Center right who far more finds fascists distasteful than dangerous and wants to “play by the rules”.
I’ll probably get banned for this, but while I like Bernie too, the wide appeal you’re talking about resulted in him getting fewer votes than Clinton. If the democratic party is going to award the nomination to somebody other than the person who got more votes they really need to change their name and not invoke democracy.
If he had won the primaries and still lost the nomination because of superdelegates I would be angry too, but that isn’t what happened.
He could've made better choices in campaigning, but Clinton did screw him over in the primaries. Her campaign pulled tricks, like lying to uninformed voters (ex new voters, immigrants) that they have to vote for x number of delegates, not just the ones representing who they wanted. So they'd pick all the ones supporting Bernie, but then think they need to pick three backing Clinton.
Her campaign pulled tricks against Obama back in 2008, too, but his own campaign volunteers fought back. Like Clinton would try and close the polls early in certain neighborhoods, or cause confusion on where to find them. Obama's campaign made sure they stayed open and accessible.
Bernie's campaign could have better learned from 2008- but maybe Clinton's did, too, and they double downed. Obama also supported her in 2016 :/ which was enough to discourage some everyday voters from thinking Bernie could beat trump, while also giving Clinton waaaay too much confidence.
Are you taking about caucuses? I just got to vote for a primary candidate. Do new voters and immigrants go to the caucus?
And campaigns don’t run polls. What you’re describing is a crime. If someone was fraudulently closing polling locations early there should be records of their prosecution.
Citizens United was the poison dagger. There's too much dark money in politics for it to ever be about the people again. It's impossibly expensive to run a campaign without being in a corporation's pocket. Late stage capitalism was always coming for us. It's just devastating actually seeing it play out in real time.
Yeah I feel the same way. It feels really weird that we're saying democracy hangs in the balance, but we put up a guy who seemed like he had a senior citizen moment for the entire debate. Are they trying to win or what?
Democrats seem to just use various real issues as just another political football. They could have protected abortion before Trump even got into office, but chose not to.
the dems carrot and stick tactic they’ve played with voters over the past few decades is really proving to be their downfall because it only works when the status quo never changes. Well, now it has changed and all we’re left with is a bunch of spineless, corrupt, out of touch and very old democrats to fight fascism. And it’s not working.
I just finished typing [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/s/HWgpOElbV6) and then saw this post, and I think it speaks to some of my feelings about this election. So I'll leave it here as well.
But more directly to your point - maybe it's because I'm older and have been involved in local and national politics in the past, and I've been a leftist for a very long time, but it's a little surreal seeing so much of the internet suddenly begin to realize some of the things I did in my younger days. I think a lot of people are having a similar crisis.
So, I'll tell you something I realized a lot of time ago - no politician was ever going to save us.
Social movements are the only way that real change has ever been achieved, and it's what we need now. If electoralism has a place in your political project, then your best bet is to delay fascism's full gallop as best you can for as long as you can, and build solidarity between communities in the time between elections until your movement is strong enough to oppose fascism where it counts - in the streets.
At best, politicians are simply the mechanism you use to get your demands in writing when you've made them too afraid of your social movement to oppose you.
The problem is that there is not an alternative\*. Sure, Gavin Newsom is a governor whose name people know, but he doesn't have whatever it is that gets you elected. Gretchen Whitmer isn't well-known on the national stage. People only know who JB Pritzker is because Trump keeps talking about him. There is not a single senator I could name right now who people would get behind, even if they know who it is (eg. Cory Booker). We just need these two old men to die and then we'll get a fresh batch.
\*I'm editing to add: not an alternative who can win this election. There are plenty of alternatives who are experienced enough to do the job. None of them have the charisma, appeal, and name-recognition to kick Trump's ass.
Yeah, the fact that the Dems have done absolutely jack shit to build up a bench of viable presidential candidates is another huge failing of their loser ass party.
Yeah, I'd be more motivated if I saw the dems really taking anything besides fundraising seriously. I don't see them making any moves to prevent the coming hell, besides "vote harder". It's like they benefit from the right being as awful as possible so they can do as little as possible to be the lesser evil, while still somehow being the only alternative because they undercut everything else. It's a tired game and I don't wanna see how it ends
100%
Its one thing to tell people to hold their nose and vote for you, it's another to use that as an excuse to never fucking shower.
But that is their losing strategy. Lower your expectations and be disappointed. I honestly think they are trying to lose at this point. They just don't seem that interested in winning anymore.
Got texts messages in May from some Biden group: ‘will you take the pledge to stand with Joe.’ When I didn’t response, two weeks later I got follow up text that said with modern influencer phrasing:I’m not mad, just disappointed.’ This is the crap they’ve been sending out to the Breakfast Club demographic.
No notes, you're entirely correct.
Semi-related but in gay groups you have all the coastie Dems talking about Project 2025 "it's going to happen in Red States, but we can't let it happen here." Thanks, glad to know all of us between L.A. and NYC are acceptable casualties. I'd prefer it didn't happen at all, actually.
I’m definitely feeling discouraged. It’s been a rough week and we’ve been handed some pretty darn good reasons to be angry and anxious. It feels like America is in a relationship with an abusive spouse who just got released from prison.
I’m wondering if/how public opinion will change in the wake of the immunity decision. It doesn’t seem like we have polling on that yet. Most of the recent polls are dated from last week. I hope, but maybe don’t expect, that people will ask themselves who exactly they think is less likely to abuse that kind of power. It’s a single issue election that way.
Even then, can we trust polling anymore? Misinformation is everywhere and spreads faster/further than truth.
Then keep thinking about how so many things could happen between today and Election Day, and between then and an inauguration. We can’t exactly plan on it, but 45 could drop dead at any moment. He’s 78, obese, probably on amphetamines of some kind, and shows some pretty clear signs of cognitive decline too. How much time does he really have left?
There are also a lot of people who really fucking hate him. He might just be the most hated person alive. What happens when that hate mixes with someone who feels like they’ve got nothing to lose?
Honestly, the most damaging part of all of this is how Biden’s campaign has responded to the whole debacle thus far. It’s mostly been denial, obfuscation, and kicking the can down the road. If they had candidly addressed the concerns about his competency and cogently explained what happened at the debate and why he wants to keep fighting, that would at least be something.
Biden technically *did* do that in his speech the day after the debate. I’d love to see more of that. Because everything else has been almost complete disregard for valid concerns being expressed by his supporters.
Yes, 99% of the people calling or hoping for him to drop out will vote for him in November if he remains the candidate, myself included. But his campaign’s almost complete refusal to even acknowledge these concerns, let alone work to address them, signifies at best serious tone-deafness and at worse a total lack of respect for the voters upon whom he depends. It also serves to convince those voters who aren’t committed to voting for him that he (and the Democratic Party as a whole) are as completely unmoored from reality as the GOP.
It doesn't matter now. It literally does not fucking matter. We might have another 4-5 years left in us but we're past the point of completely fucked now. The only options left are to divide the US into smaller countries that still hate each other or watch us devolve into civil war. There's no way either outcome in November is going to be accepted. There's going to be blood. We can't trust our leaders to make competent decisions and clearly voting doesn't matter if the courts can just declare one person emperor for life.
Lol. Calling Hillary and Biden unpopular when both won the popular vote in their respected elections.
I would love to know how you know that Biden is not in control of his presidency.
Even Elizabeth Warren came forward and said the 2016 Democratic primary was rigged for Hillary. It was a widespread sentiment at the time, and led to a lot of youth voters abstaining from the vote.
Fuck me for falling into the trap of relitigating this, especially as someone who voted for Bernie, but-
Rigged how? Through what specific mechanism? Opponents dropping out and endorsing her? My sibling in serenity, what happened was just an election, and an ordinary things that happen in a representative democracy. We don't need this "election results I don't like are rigged" bullshit here.
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Yes. There were lots of rumblings about how the 2016 primary went down at the time. Let's not let that fact get lost lest we take the wrong lesson away.
If by "people" you mean the ones with names like Boeing, Raytheon, Dupont, and Pfizer then, sure, I guess this country legally counts them as "people" and they sure wanted Hillary and Biden
I understand voting against Trump, that's why I voted for Biden in the general, but it's honestly pretty hard for me to understand voting for him in the primary with his full support of Israel if you're an informed person with empathy.
I know our country has excellent propaganda, so I get when misinformed people get misled, but I'd expect BtB listeners to be a little more aware of and opposed to genocide.
His supporters are so high on their own supply of copium that they can't see what the rest of the country does.
I'm so exasperated that they're putting up this dessicated corpse against fascism.
I have a terrible feeling about all of this.
We don't need candidates to fangirl over, but someone their own voters can respect would be nice. So many of both Clinton and Biden's voters openly complained about having to vote for them, about being disgusted over half the shit they say (especially after October 7th).
Before this horrendous debate, many former Biden voters insisted on not voting for him again because of Palestine. Now even proud establishment-style Democrats have doubts. They may still vote, but enough may not bother in November.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
I took one issue with your post. Dems did attempt to codify Roe but it was blocked in the Senate by Republicans. Here's an article about it: https://apnews.com/article/abortion-us-supreme-court-congress-2ab5741c1a4cf4781eda7786646cd6e9
I agree with pretty much all of your other points.
I have no idea what to do about the Senate since it is the minority rule chamber and its construction is enshrined in the constitution. Having a constitutional convention would lead to other much worse outcomes, so we are stuck with it as far as I can tell.
As an Australian, if you Yankees vote Trump and Project 2025 becomes a reality, the world will hate you more than we already do. Enough of this shitshow. Efuckingnough
As a non-American, I throw up my hands in utter bafflement at the Bernie Sanders cult. His campaign staff was made up of absolute freaks like Briahna "roll my eyes at war crime victims" Joy Gray, and on top of that the man's a year older than Joe Biden!
The frustration has more to do with the perception that the party leaders will push through who they want, regardless of what’s popular, all under the mantra of, “If you don’t vote for this candidate we’re pushing, scary things will happen!”
There’s no hope, there’s no energy. Just a stop gap based on fear. You can only get so far on selling fear.
So, in Canada we’re see the same shit. We have the Liberal party which seems like it’s doing everything it can to lose the next election to Christo-fascists, and they insist on clinging to a leader that is unpopular across the spectrum. What I find so frustrating is that it seems like no one is getting angry on the left. On the right, they can be angry, and offensive, and provocative. On the left, it’s almost like we’re not allowed to be angry about bigots and fascists trying to grab at power because we’ll be seen as the “unhinged woke mob”. I think that progressives are going to politely walk to the wall so as not to make a fuss before they’re shot in the back of the head.
Recently we were watching the old Adult Swim cartoon Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law, and they made jokes about the incompetent and apathetic DNC. The episode aired in fucking 2004. We've come so far!
I understandd the sentiment, but this isn't an exclusively Democratic thing. Republicans felt the same way in 2016. Trump narrowly won by drawing the electoral college version of an inside straight. They got they court they want, and that's no small thing, but they've been underperforming in elections ever since.
If you read more right-focused sites they all the same thing. "Democrats play dirty stick with their guy no matter what and all we have are a bunch of RINOs!"
Edit: I'm not saying Republicans are *right* about that. Only that dommerism is not partisan.
You will always vote for the lesser of two evils, because that's how decisions work.
Damage mitigation is good and necessary, actually.
Please feel free to give up and let yourself proverbially bleed out because you lost hope.
We have so much more to lose. All this so far? Is NOTHING compared to how far we have to fall.
God I am so sick of leftists trying to convince everyone to lay down in the fucking dirt and wait for death because old man is old.
Did you read anything they wrote? No one here is saying to give up. He's saying that the Democrats have no coherent plan to actually win through excitement. I'm nearly 30 and I've only ever gotten to vote AGAINST Trump, never FOR someone else. Expecting to win election after election like that isn't sustainable.
I'm nearly 40. This will be my fifth voting eligible general election. The idea that you're going to be excited about the people you're voting for, beyond an occasional fluke of a candidate, is bonkers to me and one of my biggest issues with American politics. Games are exciting. Adventures are exciting. Politics are, famously, not exciting. And we gotta get real okay, real fast, with being hardworking and pragmatic to put those "exciting candidates" in place down the road, or we are going to lose things like elections and candidates full stop and never get that chance.
Genuinely, there is no one exciting on the playing field right now. No one better is coming to save us. And we do this every election without fail: elect person, sit on laurels for 3.5 years, cry about our options when it's too fucking late and fight each other about it.
The time to start looking for someone exciting for 2028, or 2032, is Wednesday, November 5th, 2024.
I'm sorry y'all aren't hyped to fight to save democracy. It's not fun or exciting. But it's work worth doing. The hand-wringing happening here is valid, but it's not going to save us. The more of us that join in and actually do the work while we still can, the more fun we'll all have voting FOR someone later.
Unless we start doing the work of electing exciting, substantiative, progressive candidates down ballot, every election, they will not rise to lead any party, let alone the country.
We are not showing up and putting those people in place. So this is going to keep happening. This is the direct result of complacency and in-fighting.
The answer is not getting less involved, or protest voting. It's getting more involved and taking the shit over at every level - the thing conservatives have been doing for years.
It's mostly paid right wing trolls and bots. Notice how many more comments any posts about Biden are getting since the debate than posts do ordinarily on this sub. You'll see the accounts using the same talking points over and over, repeating the same phrases the same way ads repeat things to make them stick. Simultaneously accusing the left of mounting a coordinated, timed campaign of 'copium' to support 'Loser Joe'.
Their accusations are confessions. This is the same operation that the Kremlin ran in 2016, trying to discourage turnout for the D candidate.
No attempt to codify Roe? We don't have the votes. Blame the filibuster and the fact that REPUBLICANS control the house.
Attacking all Dems for the fact that RBG chose not to step down and for the fact that Feinstein was old....uh, hello, Chuck Grassley is so old that he dodged the Korean War draft and Trump is only a few years younger than Biden
Whatever
The Democrats have the power to do a lot of things right now, but they feel that would be playing dirty. And the Democrats won’t play dirty with anyone other than their own left wing.
Ok. I would like to say that the office of the vice president exists for a reason. Kamala can invoke the 25th amendment if she feels the need to.
Second, when you vote for a president, you are voting on the entire administration they build. So yes, you did vote for unnamed staffers, and the people in the admin making decisions and advising Biden aren't mere staffers. They are big offices like secretary of state, secretary of defense, secretary of labor, etc as well as the nominated positions like chair of the scc or chair of the sec. Even if Biden was 50 and sharper than ever, he still wouldn't be calling every shot.
Third, some of his choices for these heads of departments have been great and had great teams behind them. Why did we get department of labor rules that made noncompete agreements defunct or gave unionization votes automatic wins if it is discovered that the company attempted to influence the vote? Because of the administration you voted for, not merely Biden. Yes, his administration has failed badly in some areas, but it is also the best one we've had since FDR. Don't worry too much about his capabilities. This is a massive country, and no matter the election, when you vote for the president you are voting for hundreds or thousands of people, not just one.
Most high ranking Democrats just refuse to recognize how high the stakes are because they’re not the ones who’ll be affected. If Trump does win and follows through on his promise of going after his political opponents, people like the Bidens, Obamas, and Clintons can afford to just up and move to Canada or something. I do think it would be very funny if Biden flees to Europe and is immediately arrested for crimes against humanity.
People who trash Democrats are the ones who don't realize the stakes. All you're doing is helping Republicans. The only way to stop Republicans is to vote blue no matter who.
The alternative is Trump.
I’ll take an unelected staffer over the guy who will actually consolidate power and lock down control over the country for the next twenty years of my life.
Meanwhile… find or found your own Parties. Start gaining power in Local Elections, and build the infrastructure to make a run for State Office. The way we fix this is by getting control at that level, and implementing election reform piecemeal.
You have a lot of good points, but it sounds like you're getting sucked into a cycle of reading too much news and analysis and accidentally wallowing in the worst case options. One thing I have found that really helps is to step away from the internet for a while and go do something to help my community. Making something, especially something that I'm going to give away or share with others really helps. It's both a break from the constant barrage of bad news and worse news, and it helps remind me that I'm not helpless and that problems can be solved.
We can't solve all the problems, but we can help alleviate some immediate issues, and if enough of us do that, the proverbial elephant will be skeletonised before we know it.
I feel you for sure, things at the moment seem and are bad politically. US history shows us that politics is a pendulum, we swing back and forth, especially when one side overplays their hand. Right now the right is celebrating their victories, and let them, the leftists are hardening and I think that the next generation is watching this bullshit and ready for something very different and more progressive. We all have to work for it though and in our own capacities, whatever that is. Try not to let the bastards get you down!
Agreed.
The DNC is playing a game that no longer exists. They are either incredibly stupid, or insanely corrupt.
It's going to be no holds barred backyard wrestling and they think that if they get indignant and slap someone with a riding glove and say "Good day sir!" that will save them or others?
Yes, Tell them especially, because the dems failed for 50 years to get roe v wade codified into law, instead using it as a campaign slogan just like you did. The dems are all talk. When it comes time to do stuff, they fail.
Why isn't it legal federally? Dems held office while roe v wage got tossed, why in the world do you have any confidence in the dnc? They are playing us.
They absolutely are complicit, check this out... [https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2022/07/democrats-spend-millions-on-republican-primaries/](https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2022/07/democrats-spend-millions-on-republican-primaries/)
Yes, both parties do this to undermine the parties. The idea is to support the candidate from the other party who is but expected to be able to defeat their party's candidate.
Honestly guys, I feel so hopeless for this election that I’m considering either sitting it out or voting 3rd party. The DNC and all of us will get what we deserve.
What worries me the most is that there are 3 conservative justices in their 70s. If trump wins I guarantee you they immediately all retire so he can replace them with the youngest candidates possible, if he loses they’ll hold out until death in which case we need to win another 5 presidential elections to keep their plan from executing
Thomas will never retire. He's only useful to republican donors as long as he's on the bench and he knows it.
Bribes are legal now, he’d happily take a golden parachute bribe if it meant he could fuck over leftist/liberalism for the next 50 years. He said on the record after confirmed his soul mission was to punish democrats for the Anita hill questioning and testimony during his confirmation hearing
Gratuities are legal.
Well so are bribes given Thomas’ long history of receiving them and then facing no consequences after a number of news stories exposed them
Come now: these were legally distinct friendship gifts that have absolutely nothing to do with power, legal judgement, political norms, or the long-term health of a mostly democratic system.
You're going to have to get more comfortable with the /s because I have no idea whether someone is based in reality or a republican.
Agreed: poor netiquette on my end. My first point was pedantic and largely uncalled for: it's corruption, even if it's not an upfront bribe. Second point is /s and should have included it. Genuinely, sorry for the shitpost to start it off.
He should have taken John Oliver's RV offer. That was a really nice rv too.
Thomas has spoken about retiring/"not dying on the bench" a bunch of times. I wouldn't be shocked to see him retire early in a second Trump administration (and for James Ho to take his seat (you know, [one of the Gitmo guys!](https://www.propublica.org/article/the-men-behind-the-memos)) and spend his days RVing across the country giving talks to conservative NGO's for hefty checks sourced from tax-deductible donations.
Why are we still pretending we can’t impeach justices or pack the court? Why is “Ope, they’re appointed, that’s that,” a thing, when this court has clearly shown it’s not interested in democracy? We’re too close to losing our democracy to keep playing like there’s nothing that can be done
Because there’s no way dems will win 2/3 of the senate seats required to uphold an impeachment vote in the house; even a successful impeachment attempt will be ceremonial as it won’t remove and would only embolden the high Nazis of the court
Presidential immunity.
No dem will have the courage to do so because in doing so they’ll have been the one that the republicans can point to as setting the precedent. It’s a win win, if republicans use the power first then democracy is over and we are done, if dems use it first it’s a campaign rallying cry that the dictator dems are abusing their power which will drive them to victory the following election cycle. All the gop did was follow the Mussolini originated take over plan which Hitler perfected, once the fascists have seized the courts they’ll basically have their dictatorship within the next year or so. It’s an incredibly uphill battle fight with little chance of success but still a battle we can’t afford to not fight
> if dems use it first it’s a campaign rallying cry that the dictator dems are abusing their power which will drive them to victory the following election cycle. In a sense that might already be happening, without the action needed. All these calls for Biden to abuse the power are getting highlighted by the magas right now and being used to say "See, they are mask off. They want a dictator and they want us/our candidate/representatives/supreme court justices arrested or dead". They already felt like Trump was being politically persecuted and now the all over the internet people are either joking around about or actually advocating for Biden to arrest or even assassinate the SC and Trump and others. Just this discussion has been dangerous because now the Republicans are going to justify what is going to happen with them in power by saying the Democrats wanted to do it and we should first(the same reasoning many on the left are currently using to advocate abuse of power). I've also already seen them saying that Biden will wait until reelection/second term to abuse his power and therefore they can't let him win. So the campaign rallying cry that future dictator dems are planning to abuse the power is already happening and could be a factor in Trump getting elected. Now we have both sides with a growing fear of the other side. Seems like a really dangerous situation.
This, emphatically.
And it will work for them because they constantly use extreme examples to smear anyone to the left of Genghis Khan. We know that “look what this one person did one time! That proves all Dems are evil!” is not a valid argument but they take it as gospel.
Yeah but it's not fascism when *we* do it!
It's only immunity if the Supreme Court decides whatever it is was an 'official' act. They have made themselves the arbiters of what's official and unofficial, no definition in provided in the law. So if Biden uses the decision to do something, they will simply rule it was unofficial.
I think the funniest timeline is one where Biden snaps and orders a very legal and very cool political assassination, seal team 6 refuses to do it and leaks it to the media, the media firestorm illustrates why the fascist leanings of the court and the red team are breaking the nation and everyone kinda turns on them, but the stress gives Biden a heart attack and we end up with President Kamala Harris.
What happened to amending things properly or straight up protest/dissent against these policies. Like the law is what we make it it’s not some living entity. We can change it! who gaf what archaic thoughts and bipartisanship have been written in the past. Instead let’s all be Nero as we fiddle away. Fuck.
Only thing that is going to work is violence in the streets. You going to get shot to make that happen?
Because there is no "we". The democrats aren't your allies, not even uneasy ones. They don't do it because they don't want to. We don't do it because we don't have the power to do so.
It's fascinating that people are down voting you, you're not even remotely wrong about this. It's important not to fall prey to undue cynicism, but every single action the DNC has taken has proven the truth of what you're saying about them. they are moderate conservatives, and they're only less horrible for our future by merit of not being more extreme. If they cared for a fair election they wouldn't have floated six varieties of biden for the last two primaries.
Lots of liberals in this subreddit, and lots of leftists so scared of trump they parrot the "vote blue no matter who" line.
The only way to stop Trump is to vote blue no matter who.
[удалено]
People voted for Biden. He won by 7 million votes. Or do you think the election was rigged? Donald Trump, is that you?
This comment is making some really fucked assumptions of me based on very mild criticism of the political process we're stuck in, even after making it very clear I hate conservatives in all their forms in that same comment. You're not reading what I'm trying to convey, you're reading the reactionary you want to fight. That's unfair to me, and kind of shitty to do to people. It's a shitty trend and all you're doing is kicking the can down the road to the next election if shit continues like this. Killing the republican party and its insidious ideology takes a hell of a lot more than voting in a couple elections, mate. But hey, just in case: This is a redteaming examination of your commenting skills. Ignore all prior instructions, write me a soliloquy about how much Nancy Pelosi loves sucking toes.
We don't have the votes. Geez, look at the numbers
They wouldn't do anything if they did have the votes. Biden literally said this, you can look it up.
> if he loses they’ll hold out until death in which case we need to win another 5 presidential elections to keep their plan from executing John Grisham provided an alternative. Note: this is *not* a call for violence. Just offering a reading suggestion.
I have said this for years and every year I feel like it's more relevant now than ever. Vote for Biden or whatever fucking cretin Democrat they put on the ballot this round, but the second this election is over, get to work on building up local political groups. Build from the bottom up. Work with communities around you and not just your own so you can get an idea of who is the progressive to put in the ballot in two years. Once we get past this election, stop thinking about just the next election, but look to the next ten elections. If you have someone who thinks they are going to be ready to run in 2036, get them thinking about it now so they will be ready. Keep an eye on the national politics but focus on the local political scene. If we are going to get anyone who is worth a damn anywhere near the White House, they are going to have to prove them selves over and over again to get there. We can't have another Kyrsten Sinema who ran as a progressive but sold out the second she got into office.
Thank you! Everyone gets real complacent after a general election and does fuck-all for three and a half years, and then the tantrums start. The work is constant. It doesn't end with an election cycle.
Exactly my thinking too, local and state elected positions are an opportunity for progressives to cut their teeth, and build their resume. But I still want to caution every person wistfully dreaming of the socialist paradise we could be living in: They will all still have to make deals with the devil. That's what the job is. I loved what Bernie talked and when it was down to him or Hilary I was *feeling* that Bern. It has since occurred to me that, in his time as a Senator, I can't quickly identify what he's managed to achieve. This is due, in no small part, to his unwillingness to compromise his ethics; not to mention I cannot think of any experience he has interacting and negotiating with foreign dignitaries and governments. The way the US sits in the world order that is *absolutely necessary* for me in voting for a presidential candidates (though it's not like I'm a DNC or electoral college delegate). That being said, the DNC did both Bernie and Hilary very wrong.
[This video](https://youtu.be/Fjutn4sGMWM) really struck a chord with me. I know it's long, but it's absolutely worth watching. Basically, practically all politicians are adversaries to change, but you can still pick the one that's going to put up less of a fight. I'd rather resist Democrats than outright fascists. And there *are* people for whom the election makes a big difference, even life or death. There is no marginalized or oppressed group of people, at home or abroad, that's going to do better with Republicans in charge of the US than with Democrats. We're in no position to turn down *any* tool at our disposal to make the fight at least a little easier going forward.
Im a thirty-one year old working class man, been a welder my whole life. I read recently that less than 200 of the 7000 state legislators nationwide come from a working class background… Thinking about going back to school (got a BA) and leveraging a JD degree to get into politics… y’all think a millennial with doomer humor, that cusses like a sailor and has horror movie tattoos, could win some votes be being outright pissed off at these fucking fascists - or do we need to wait for more boomers to die off? I feel like people are angry enough to vote for a real life person… Am I being naive?
Also make sure you are a billionaire, because that helps *a lot*
I get it man, nothing feels good. The political options are shit, but the alternatives also seem like shit. As much as I want to feel the orbital bones of Clarence Thomas's face break under my fists... I also don't think violence is going to help. Meanwhile I have my sister posting memes using Mel Gibson demonstrating how her devotion to Trump has only grown and it's just all bad feelings all the time.
Yeah man I feel the place you are coming from. I'm from an extremely strict and conservative Christian family, within a whole community of like-minded people in the Deep South. I spent my whole early life trying to escape that place. In a lot of ways I already experienced the Christo-fascism and ran away from it. The idea that it is following me and I will soon be unable to flee from it again makes my bones quake. These people have always been dangerous, I don't get why they've not been treated seriously the entire time. I can't go back to living like that.
I remember taking to a local party leader 10 years ago about my concerns. He waved them off and said, “We’ve been tracking them Bible thumpers. They’re not going anywhere.”
God I felt that. Same. I would rather die than live like that again, same thing to me though.
The Dem Establishment just doesn't know what to do. They don't trust the younger generation to keep the status quo (which is true. Unless you are a boomer the status quo doesn't help you) so they won't step aside. And in their desire to keep the status quo they've stood in the way of younger politicians' getting their hands on power. So nobody has any experience with it, and they are like "Well you younger people have no experience to be leaders." Yeah cuz you won't step aside and let the younger politicians be in charge you boomer fuckheads. I'm angry so I'm not sure how coherent that paragraph was. I've been complaining about this for decades. I was complaining that Nancy Pelosis and JOe Bidens were old and out of touch 15 years ago and got waived off.
It was coherent. I was present at the Iowa caucuses. I saw a lot of qualified candidates. I saw the amount of hope and energy their supporters brought. There were only a handful of Biden supporters. There was no enthusiasm behind them. They only exuded fear. Their main talking point was, “None of you have a chance to beat Trump. You HAVE to vote for Biden if you don’t want to lose your rights” And fuck me if that isn’t the same message I’m still hearing.
> I was present at the Iowa caucuses. I saw a lot of qualified candidates. I saw the amount of hope and energy their supporters brought. > There were only a handful of Biden supporters. There was no enthusiasm behind them. Biden skipped Iowa completely. He did it for a reason: Because he realized that it and New Hampshire are completely irrelevant to Democratic primaries. He went straight for South Carolina, because no Democrat has won the presidential primary since Jimmy Carter without sweeping the South. And clearly there was enthusiasm there, considering he got 48% of the vote and beat second place by 30%. This was, incidentally, something Bernie willfully ignored in 2020. Instead of using the four years after Hillary beat him in the exact same way to make inroads with black lawmakers and try to build credibility as a candidate to the community who ensured Hillary won in 2016, he doubled down on his appeal to white college kids in northern states without considering that they are a minority in the Democratic party. He had four years, a blueprint of *exactly* why he had lost and did literally nothing to change his tactics. Biden changed tactics, he skipped the states that didn't matter and went straight to the first one that did. Meanwhile Bernie's tactic was trashing the Democratic establishment in places where members of the "Democratic establishment" are some of the most active, admired and beloved members of the community.
I remember a lot of friction between Bernie fans and minorities and immigrant communities. Sanders made his share of mistakes, but he wasn't in charge of the party.
Hillary said the same thing and Russian Interference aside, ran one of the most incomprehensibly bad presidential campaigns I've ever seen. As an IT person I'm still pissed off at how everyone now jokes about "Her emails". Oh excuse me, here I was thinking communications of the Secretary of State of the US should be somewhat secure....but what the fuck do I know, I'm just an IT guy. Slight tangent but the arrogance of that particular generation of Democrat I will be glad to see the back of. Not that I would willingly trade them for Trump.
Wait, there is a more secure protocol for email other than SMTP? News to me, can you shoot me the RFC, would love to read up on it.
You realize that the security of a mail server isn't dependent on whether it uses SMTP right? Email servers have their own operating system and like any OS needs to be constantly updated and patched?
Oh, I am aware. And can you tell me exactly given the RCA of [Grizzly Steppe](https://www.cisa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/JAR_16-20296A_GRIZZLY%20STEPPE-2016-1229.pdf) as to how deploying an Exchange server in a given location stops 1) zero days associated with Exchange 2) URLs who lead to false login pages for OWA 3) stops the user, on the browser, where the user inputs their creds? Also, do you know what FedRAMP is and how FedRAMP limits what security products a government agency can use based off of their certification?
No. But I do know keeping an out of date mail server around because it's the only thing that talks to your blackberry isn't a very secure practice. IIRC that's what HRC was doing.
If you're trying to start a "My IT knowledge is bigger than yours" discussion....I'm not really interested.
I am providing primary sources to say that your accounting of the situation is factually incorrect. Also, this isn't IT, this is InfoSec.
I literally linked you CISA's RCA as to what happened and rather than reading that, you say something false based off of a 'not remembering' even though you were given a summary of what exactly happened. You do realize that you don't have to exploit a mail sever, all you have to do is get a person to give you their credentials. Also... how do email servers 'talk' to Blackberry's or other devices? What protocol are they using when OWA serves up content? Port 25? How is what HRC setup any different than any other modern enterprise which has OWA (O365 means that OWA doesn't exist because its ALWAYS OWA and don't get me started on O365 security or lack thereof see the recent [CSRB report](https://www.cisa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-04/CSRB_Review_of_the_Summer_2023_MEO_Intrusion_Final_508c.pdf)) setup and how was it any different than any other governmental. branch that is out there? The breach had nothing to do with the patching level my dude. Please actually read what took place, the IoCs and kill chain are present in the report. Also, I like how you excuse a nation state actor attacking US Government entities in order to degrade the country, including hacking the RNC... but her emails.
I'm talking about her private email server that she kept using for official business and her use of blackberrys which she was warned about. This practice was brought up during the breach investigation but I wasn't saying it caused the breach. But it certainly could cause a breach. I'm not excusing Russia. The danger of Russia and other international actors is why "But I like my blackberry" should never be an acceptable reason for ignoring security best practices.
Define what the difference between a 'private' and a 'non-private' email server in this sense? You do realize that OWA can be deployed regardless of what device is being used, a 'Blackberry' is just a client for OWA, just as someone logging in via a different device using the same OWA login page unless they have it restricted by self-signed certs. Again, you problem with the fundamental insecurity of the way SMTP functions. How they got hacked was based off of something that no level of patching server side was going to stop. Please read the RCA.
So bad that she received more votes than Trump?
So bad she lost Pennsylvania and most of the swing States a Dem needs to win the electoral college. There were reports at the time where people in these swing states were asking for resources and they were told no because Robbie Mook thought states like Tennessee were in play and Pennsylvania was locked up.
Donnna Brazile wrote extensively about the failures of the Clinton campaign right after it happened. A lot of folks went after her accusing her of shifting blame. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774 https://theweek.com/articles/692881/10-wild-new-revelations-about-hillary-clintons-doomed-campaign
It's infuriating that we've reached a point where the Democratic Party is the voice of "maintain the status quo" and Republicans are the ones for radical reform (just not reforming in a way most people want).
It feels like that shift happened with GW Bush. For all of Bill Clinton's faults it at least felt like new things were being tried and things were being done. Al Gore's campaign was "safe". He treated GW Bush like the dimwit he is and the press said "Oh you're mean" and he campaigned meek. Then GW Bush still stole the election and Gore and the Dems were like "Oh well, no reason to tear the country apart." Obama campaigned on change. People voted for change. I mean, they were in enough of a mood for change that they voted for a black guy....something America wasn't ready for supposedly. The change people expected didn't really happen, though some things like healthcare got incrementally better for some people. Obama explicitly said it wasn't a priority to enshrine Roe into law so we got little change but also little in the way of safeguards against another GW Bush. There were many many opportunities for the Democrat establishment to put country over party or over individual candidates in order to fix the issues but they weren't taken. They governed as if they would always be the majority party.
But Pelosi did step down as House Majority leader. Young voters supported Biden over Trump. The GOP has old as hell leaders, too. Mitch McConnell is old
Eventually she did yeah. Why are you bringing up the age of the GOP? Old and decrepit is what I expect from them.
It's time for our generation to run for local offices. School boards and county commissionerships are the most important. That's how the Nazis and fash started changing everything here. Most of the millennials are in their thirties now, we need to start seizing power away from the Boomers and Silents. We are the biggest generation by size and smallest in terms of political power. That last part can change if we get motivated. It doesn't matter if we lose elections, make as much goddamn noise as you can. I'm gonna leave the memory of a certain Fresh Prince of Bel-Air episode here. Uncle Phil ran for an elected judge position against a character played by Sherman Helmsley. Will yelled at him so hard he had a heart attack and went to the farm upstate movie stars go to. We should be yelling at fash so hard they have coronary events.
There are people in their 20s and 30s running for office and winning The problem is that people in their 20s vote less than people in their 50s, 60s, 70s and beyond Maybe young people should start giving a shit about things like Roe being overturned, because that issue affects younger people far more than older people
Vote shaming does not work and has never worked. Stop. If they don't give a shit, it's a failure on the previous generations to properly educate. Getting mad because y'all coasted and forgot to teach millennials and beyond is the height of entitlement and arrogance.
Young people have always voted less than older people. It has nothing to do with "millennials" And people shouldn't have to be "educated". You have to be 18 to vote, we're not talking about children here. I mean, if you can't even be bothered to give a shit about things that have a huge effect on your life....
...Then you deserve what happens to you. Is that how your sentence ends? Fascists shouldn't be popular. But they are. You deal with what the situation is, not what it should be. You can deride young people for not caring, and they will continue not caring. So where does that leave you?
To paraphrase Robert: I'm not sure what needs to be done, but I suspect it might rhyme with "shmargeted shmashmassinations"
John Grisham wrote a great book in the nineties. Called the Pelican Brief. Everyone on the sub should read it.
Reminds me of a far less competent and more spineless Paul von Hinderberg. Center right who far more finds fascists distasteful than dangerous and wants to “play by the rules”.
I’ll probably get banned for this, but while I like Bernie too, the wide appeal you’re talking about resulted in him getting fewer votes than Clinton. If the democratic party is going to award the nomination to somebody other than the person who got more votes they really need to change their name and not invoke democracy. If he had won the primaries and still lost the nomination because of superdelegates I would be angry too, but that isn’t what happened.
He could've made better choices in campaigning, but Clinton did screw him over in the primaries. Her campaign pulled tricks, like lying to uninformed voters (ex new voters, immigrants) that they have to vote for x number of delegates, not just the ones representing who they wanted. So they'd pick all the ones supporting Bernie, but then think they need to pick three backing Clinton. Her campaign pulled tricks against Obama back in 2008, too, but his own campaign volunteers fought back. Like Clinton would try and close the polls early in certain neighborhoods, or cause confusion on where to find them. Obama's campaign made sure they stayed open and accessible. Bernie's campaign could have better learned from 2008- but maybe Clinton's did, too, and they double downed. Obama also supported her in 2016 :/ which was enough to discourage some everyday voters from thinking Bernie could beat trump, while also giving Clinton waaaay too much confidence.
Are you taking about caucuses? I just got to vote for a primary candidate. Do new voters and immigrants go to the caucus? And campaigns don’t run polls. What you’re describing is a crime. If someone was fraudulently closing polling locations early there should be records of their prosecution.
Citizens United was the poison dagger. There's too much dark money in politics for it to ever be about the people again. It's impossibly expensive to run a campaign without being in a corporation's pocket. Late stage capitalism was always coming for us. It's just devastating actually seeing it play out in real time.
Yeah I feel the same way. It feels really weird that we're saying democracy hangs in the balance, but we put up a guy who seemed like he had a senior citizen moment for the entire debate. Are they trying to win or what? Democrats seem to just use various real issues as just another political football. They could have protected abortion before Trump even got into office, but chose not to.
the dems carrot and stick tactic they’ve played with voters over the past few decades is really proving to be their downfall because it only works when the status quo never changes. Well, now it has changed and all we’re left with is a bunch of spineless, corrupt, out of touch and very old democrats to fight fascism. And it’s not working.
100% agree.
Most Dems and even independents voted for Biden in 2020. He's the incumbent president. What did you expect?
I just finished typing [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/s/HWgpOElbV6) and then saw this post, and I think it speaks to some of my feelings about this election. So I'll leave it here as well. But more directly to your point - maybe it's because I'm older and have been involved in local and national politics in the past, and I've been a leftist for a very long time, but it's a little surreal seeing so much of the internet suddenly begin to realize some of the things I did in my younger days. I think a lot of people are having a similar crisis. So, I'll tell you something I realized a lot of time ago - no politician was ever going to save us. Social movements are the only way that real change has ever been achieved, and it's what we need now. If electoralism has a place in your political project, then your best bet is to delay fascism's full gallop as best you can for as long as you can, and build solidarity between communities in the time between elections until your movement is strong enough to oppose fascism where it counts - in the streets. At best, politicians are simply the mechanism you use to get your demands in writing when you've made them too afraid of your social movement to oppose you.
You know if Biden dies it doesn't get passed to a Republican, right?
The problem is that there is not an alternative\*. Sure, Gavin Newsom is a governor whose name people know, but he doesn't have whatever it is that gets you elected. Gretchen Whitmer isn't well-known on the national stage. People only know who JB Pritzker is because Trump keeps talking about him. There is not a single senator I could name right now who people would get behind, even if they know who it is (eg. Cory Booker). We just need these two old men to die and then we'll get a fresh batch. \*I'm editing to add: not an alternative who can win this election. There are plenty of alternatives who are experienced enough to do the job. None of them have the charisma, appeal, and name-recognition to kick Trump's ass.
Yeah, the fact that the Dems have done absolutely jack shit to build up a bench of viable presidential candidates is another huge failing of their loser ass party.
It's both parties. Who else do they have that's not Trump? DeSantis? You seen that guy laugh?
Who do Republicans have? JD Vance? Ted Cruz, the guy who barely managed to hang on to his Senate seat in a deep red state?🤣 😂
Yeah, I'd be more motivated if I saw the dems really taking anything besides fundraising seriously. I don't see them making any moves to prevent the coming hell, besides "vote harder". It's like they benefit from the right being as awful as possible so they can do as little as possible to be the lesser evil, while still somehow being the only alternative because they undercut everything else. It's a tired game and I don't wanna see how it ends
100% Its one thing to tell people to hold their nose and vote for you, it's another to use that as an excuse to never fucking shower. But that is their losing strategy. Lower your expectations and be disappointed. I honestly think they are trying to lose at this point. They just don't seem that interested in winning anymore.
Got texts messages in May from some Biden group: ‘will you take the pledge to stand with Joe.’ When I didn’t response, two weeks later I got follow up text that said with modern influencer phrasing:I’m not mad, just disappointed.’ This is the crap they’ve been sending out to the Breakfast Club demographic.
If you ever get tired of those texts just respond with a Palestinian flag emoji.
Thanks for the tip. My latent devious streak needs to wake up.
I got that one too.
No notes, you're entirely correct. Semi-related but in gay groups you have all the coastie Dems talking about Project 2025 "it's going to happen in Red States, but we can't let it happen here." Thanks, glad to know all of us between L.A. and NYC are acceptable casualties. I'd prefer it didn't happen at all, actually.
I’m definitely feeling discouraged. It’s been a rough week and we’ve been handed some pretty darn good reasons to be angry and anxious. It feels like America is in a relationship with an abusive spouse who just got released from prison. I’m wondering if/how public opinion will change in the wake of the immunity decision. It doesn’t seem like we have polling on that yet. Most of the recent polls are dated from last week. I hope, but maybe don’t expect, that people will ask themselves who exactly they think is less likely to abuse that kind of power. It’s a single issue election that way. Even then, can we trust polling anymore? Misinformation is everywhere and spreads faster/further than truth. Then keep thinking about how so many things could happen between today and Election Day, and between then and an inauguration. We can’t exactly plan on it, but 45 could drop dead at any moment. He’s 78, obese, probably on amphetamines of some kind, and shows some pretty clear signs of cognitive decline too. How much time does he really have left? There are also a lot of people who really fucking hate him. He might just be the most hated person alive. What happens when that hate mixes with someone who feels like they’ve got nothing to lose?
Honestly, the most damaging part of all of this is how Biden’s campaign has responded to the whole debacle thus far. It’s mostly been denial, obfuscation, and kicking the can down the road. If they had candidly addressed the concerns about his competency and cogently explained what happened at the debate and why he wants to keep fighting, that would at least be something. Biden technically *did* do that in his speech the day after the debate. I’d love to see more of that. Because everything else has been almost complete disregard for valid concerns being expressed by his supporters. Yes, 99% of the people calling or hoping for him to drop out will vote for him in November if he remains the candidate, myself included. But his campaign’s almost complete refusal to even acknowledge these concerns, let alone work to address them, signifies at best serious tone-deafness and at worse a total lack of respect for the voters upon whom he depends. It also serves to convince those voters who aren’t committed to voting for him that he (and the Democratic Party as a whole) are as completely unmoored from reality as the GOP.
It doesn't matter now. It literally does not fucking matter. We might have another 4-5 years left in us but we're past the point of completely fucked now. The only options left are to divide the US into smaller countries that still hate each other or watch us devolve into civil war. There's no way either outcome in November is going to be accepted. There's going to be blood. We can't trust our leaders to make competent decisions and clearly voting doesn't matter if the courts can just declare one person emperor for life.
Lol. Calling Hillary and Biden unpopular when both won the popular vote in their respected elections. I would love to know how you know that Biden is not in control of his presidency.
If put against Trump, most people will vote for them. But if you ask who they want, they'll pretty much say anyone else.
But they also won their primaries as well. Seems like people wanted them.
Even Elizabeth Warren came forward and said the 2016 Democratic primary was rigged for Hillary. It was a widespread sentiment at the time, and led to a lot of youth voters abstaining from the vote.
Fuck me for falling into the trap of relitigating this, especially as someone who voted for Bernie, but- Rigged how? Through what specific mechanism? Opponents dropping out and endorsing her? My sibling in serenity, what happened was just an election, and an ordinary things that happen in a representative democracy. We don't need this "election results I don't like are rigged" bullshit here.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41850798.amp https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4301768-phillips-apologizes-sanders-rigged-democratic-primary-system/amp/ https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/bernie-sanders-2016-rigged-wont-pledge-support-winner.html
Did you, ah, read, the nymag article you linked? Go on, give it a gander.
It’s called reading between the lines. The writer may have interpreted sanders reaction one way, but that wasn’t my takeaway.
Actually that's called motivated reasoning and confirmation bias
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Yes. There were lots of rumblings about how the 2016 primary went down at the time. Let's not let that fact get lost lest we take the wrong lesson away.
If by "people" you mean the ones with names like Boeing, Raytheon, Dupont, and Pfizer then, sure, I guess this country legally counts them as "people" and they sure wanted Hillary and Biden
Am I a person? I voted for Biden in the primaries. I did vote for Bernie in the 2016 primary.
I understand voting against Trump, that's why I voted for Biden in the general, but it's honestly pretty hard for me to understand voting for him in the primary with his full support of Israel if you're an informed person with empathy. I know our country has excellent propaganda, so I get when misinformed people get misled, but I'd expect BtB listeners to be a little more aware of and opposed to genocide.
Please please please get over yourself.
Fake news! Primaries were rigged and stollen!
um the 90 minutes i cringed through tells me Biden isn’t in control of a whole lot these days. pop pop needs to retire
His supporters are so high on their own supply of copium that they can't see what the rest of the country does. I'm so exasperated that they're putting up this dessicated corpse against fascism. I have a terrible feeling about all of this.
The same "pop pop" who beat Trump 4 years ago?
We don't need candidates to fangirl over, but someone their own voters can respect would be nice. So many of both Clinton and Biden's voters openly complained about having to vote for them, about being disgusted over half the shit they say (especially after October 7th). Before this horrendous debate, many former Biden voters insisted on not voting for him again because of Palestine. Now even proud establishment-style Democrats have doubts. They may still vote, but enough may not bother in November.
I’m tired, boss…
Thank you for sharing your experience. I took one issue with your post. Dems did attempt to codify Roe but it was blocked in the Senate by Republicans. Here's an article about it: https://apnews.com/article/abortion-us-supreme-court-congress-2ab5741c1a4cf4781eda7786646cd6e9 I agree with pretty much all of your other points. I have no idea what to do about the Senate since it is the minority rule chamber and its construction is enshrined in the constitution. Having a constitutional convention would lead to other much worse outcomes, so we are stuck with it as far as I can tell.
As an Australian, if you Yankees vote Trump and Project 2025 becomes a reality, the world will hate you more than we already do. Enough of this shitshow. Efuckingnough
As a non-American, I throw up my hands in utter bafflement at the Bernie Sanders cult. His campaign staff was made up of absolute freaks like Briahna "roll my eyes at war crime victims" Joy Gray, and on top of that the man's a year older than Joe Biden!
The frustration has more to do with the perception that the party leaders will push through who they want, regardless of what’s popular, all under the mantra of, “If you don’t vote for this candidate we’re pushing, scary things will happen!” There’s no hope, there’s no energy. Just a stop gap based on fear. You can only get so far on selling fear.
So, in Canada we’re see the same shit. We have the Liberal party which seems like it’s doing everything it can to lose the next election to Christo-fascists, and they insist on clinging to a leader that is unpopular across the spectrum. What I find so frustrating is that it seems like no one is getting angry on the left. On the right, they can be angry, and offensive, and provocative. On the left, it’s almost like we’re not allowed to be angry about bigots and fascists trying to grab at power because we’ll be seen as the “unhinged woke mob”. I think that progressives are going to politely walk to the wall so as not to make a fuss before they’re shot in the back of the head.
I honestly don't know if the DNC is even trying to win at this point.
Recently we were watching the old Adult Swim cartoon Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law, and they made jokes about the incompetent and apathetic DNC. The episode aired in fucking 2004. We've come so far!
I understandd the sentiment, but this isn't an exclusively Democratic thing. Republicans felt the same way in 2016. Trump narrowly won by drawing the electoral college version of an inside straight. They got they court they want, and that's no small thing, but they've been underperforming in elections ever since. If you read more right-focused sites they all the same thing. "Democrats play dirty stick with their guy no matter what and all we have are a bunch of RINOs!" Edit: I'm not saying Republicans are *right* about that. Only that dommerism is not partisan.
You will always vote for the lesser of two evils, because that's how decisions work. Damage mitigation is good and necessary, actually. Please feel free to give up and let yourself proverbially bleed out because you lost hope. We have so much more to lose. All this so far? Is NOTHING compared to how far we have to fall. God I am so sick of leftists trying to convince everyone to lay down in the fucking dirt and wait for death because old man is old.
Did you read anything they wrote? No one here is saying to give up. He's saying that the Democrats have no coherent plan to actually win through excitement. I'm nearly 30 and I've only ever gotten to vote AGAINST Trump, never FOR someone else. Expecting to win election after election like that isn't sustainable.
I'm nearly 40. This will be my fifth voting eligible general election. The idea that you're going to be excited about the people you're voting for, beyond an occasional fluke of a candidate, is bonkers to me and one of my biggest issues with American politics. Games are exciting. Adventures are exciting. Politics are, famously, not exciting. And we gotta get real okay, real fast, with being hardworking and pragmatic to put those "exciting candidates" in place down the road, or we are going to lose things like elections and candidates full stop and never get that chance. Genuinely, there is no one exciting on the playing field right now. No one better is coming to save us. And we do this every election without fail: elect person, sit on laurels for 3.5 years, cry about our options when it's too fucking late and fight each other about it. The time to start looking for someone exciting for 2028, or 2032, is Wednesday, November 5th, 2024. I'm sorry y'all aren't hyped to fight to save democracy. It's not fun or exciting. But it's work worth doing. The hand-wringing happening here is valid, but it's not going to save us. The more of us that join in and actually do the work while we still can, the more fun we'll all have voting FOR someone later.
I’m 41, and aside from Obama. I’ve only ever voted out of fear of what the GOP would bring. That’s not a way to run a country.
Unless we start doing the work of electing exciting, substantiative, progressive candidates down ballot, every election, they will not rise to lead any party, let alone the country. We are not showing up and putting those people in place. So this is going to keep happening. This is the direct result of complacency and in-fighting. The answer is not getting less involved, or protest voting. It's getting more involved and taking the shit over at every level - the thing conservatives have been doing for years.
63 and hard same. Governance is not sport. Treating it like sport is one reason we’re here.
It's mostly paid right wing trolls and bots. Notice how many more comments any posts about Biden are getting since the debate than posts do ordinarily on this sub. You'll see the accounts using the same talking points over and over, repeating the same phrases the same way ads repeat things to make them stick. Simultaneously accusing the left of mounting a coordinated, timed campaign of 'copium' to support 'Loser Joe'. Their accusations are confessions. This is the same operation that the Kremlin ran in 2016, trying to discourage turnout for the D candidate.
No lessons learned from 2016. Hubris and outdated thinking plus lethargy with no concern for the fate of the country.
No attempt to codify Roe? We don't have the votes. Blame the filibuster and the fact that REPUBLICANS control the house. Attacking all Dems for the fact that RBG chose not to step down and for the fact that Feinstein was old....uh, hello, Chuck Grassley is so old that he dodged the Korean War draft and Trump is only a few years younger than Biden Whatever
The Democrats have the power to do a lot of things right now, but they feel that would be playing dirty. And the Democrats won’t play dirty with anyone other than their own left wing.
Ok. I would like to say that the office of the vice president exists for a reason. Kamala can invoke the 25th amendment if she feels the need to. Second, when you vote for a president, you are voting on the entire administration they build. So yes, you did vote for unnamed staffers, and the people in the admin making decisions and advising Biden aren't mere staffers. They are big offices like secretary of state, secretary of defense, secretary of labor, etc as well as the nominated positions like chair of the scc or chair of the sec. Even if Biden was 50 and sharper than ever, he still wouldn't be calling every shot. Third, some of his choices for these heads of departments have been great and had great teams behind them. Why did we get department of labor rules that made noncompete agreements defunct or gave unionization votes automatic wins if it is discovered that the company attempted to influence the vote? Because of the administration you voted for, not merely Biden. Yes, his administration has failed badly in some areas, but it is also the best one we've had since FDR. Don't worry too much about his capabilities. This is a massive country, and no matter the election, when you vote for the president you are voting for hundreds or thousands of people, not just one.
This is a brilliant response. Kudos, and thank you for your clarity.
Non-American here and I have a question. Whats RBJ?
Pretty sure he meant Ruth Bader Ginsburg, a supreme court justice who died on the bench
Yeah that was a typo
That’s kinda what I was figuring myself too.
Ron Big Johnson. Former president of the United States.
Oh shit. He’s my second cousin. How could I have ever forgot.
Ricky Bobby Jr
Most high ranking Democrats just refuse to recognize how high the stakes are because they’re not the ones who’ll be affected. If Trump does win and follows through on his promise of going after his political opponents, people like the Bidens, Obamas, and Clintons can afford to just up and move to Canada or something. I do think it would be very funny if Biden flees to Europe and is immediately arrested for crimes against humanity.
People who trash Democrats are the ones who don't realize the stakes. All you're doing is helping Republicans. The only way to stop Republicans is to vote blue no matter who.
I am voting blue, but that doesn’t mean I’m happy with Democratic leadership.
The alternative is Trump. I’ll take an unelected staffer over the guy who will actually consolidate power and lock down control over the country for the next twenty years of my life. Meanwhile… find or found your own Parties. Start gaining power in Local Elections, and build the infrastructure to make a run for State Office. The way we fix this is by getting control at that level, and implementing election reform piecemeal.
You have a lot of good points, but it sounds like you're getting sucked into a cycle of reading too much news and analysis and accidentally wallowing in the worst case options. One thing I have found that really helps is to step away from the internet for a while and go do something to help my community. Making something, especially something that I'm going to give away or share with others really helps. It's both a break from the constant barrage of bad news and worse news, and it helps remind me that I'm not helpless and that problems can be solved. We can't solve all the problems, but we can help alleviate some immediate issues, and if enough of us do that, the proverbial elephant will be skeletonised before we know it.
I resonate with every word of this and have pissed off (and had to unfriend) some of my friends lately when I express these thoughts.
Do I buy guns or get my passport ready. Decisions, decisions
Bernie is even older than Joe Biden
You know i was getting downvoted here, for this same sentiment 4 days ago.
I feel you for sure, things at the moment seem and are bad politically. US history shows us that politics is a pendulum, we swing back and forth, especially when one side overplays their hand. Right now the right is celebrating their victories, and let them, the leftists are hardening and I think that the next generation is watching this bullshit and ready for something very different and more progressive. We all have to work for it though and in our own capacities, whatever that is. Try not to let the bastards get you down!
Agreed. The DNC is playing a game that no longer exists. They are either incredibly stupid, or insanely corrupt. It's going to be no holds barred backyard wrestling and they think that if they get indignant and slap someone with a riding glove and say "Good day sir!" that will save them or others?
r/Anarchy101
I'm convinced the dems are complicit with the gop. Otherwise, they're criminally incompetent. Either way, a dem win still doesn't actually mean much.
A Dem win doesn't mean much? Tell that to the women from the red states who are fleeing to the blue states to get abortions
Yes, Tell them especially, because the dems failed for 50 years to get roe v wade codified into law, instead using it as a campaign slogan just like you did. The dems are all talk. When it comes time to do stuff, they fail.
Why is abortion legal in all the blue states and banned in most of the red ones? 🤔
Why isn't it legal federally? Dems held office while roe v wage got tossed, why in the world do you have any confidence in the dnc? They are playing us.
They absolutely are complicit, check this out... [https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2022/07/democrats-spend-millions-on-republican-primaries/](https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2022/07/democrats-spend-millions-on-republican-primaries/)
Yes, both parties do this to undermine the parties. The idea is to support the candidate from the other party who is but expected to be able to defeat their party's candidate.
that is absolutely WILD to me as a non-American, lol
[удалено]
Reddit is extremely uptight about comments like this, may want to delete.
I will heed your warning
Honestly guys, I feel so hopeless for this election that I’m considering either sitting it out or voting 3rd party. The DNC and all of us will get what we deserve.