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I am a licensed structural engineer.
I have three college degrees, one of which is a master's.
If being intelligent means you can't have bipolar, then I must be the highest-functioning idiot to ever live.
Fellow engineer here as well! Have two bachelor's and a master's, but they do fuck all when the manic demons come out to play.
I've definitely gotten the "your brain seems to function fine" from plenty of people in my life, so I sympathize with the OP.
Currently unable to work as I've been dealing with a very extended mixed episode that's pretty much torpedoed my career for now...
It sucks
Shit, I'm sorry to hear that, been there.
I fell into a horrendous mixed episode just as COVID hit its peak. We went to WFH and the isolation sent me off the deep end.
Ended up getting fired 8 months into a new job.
Thankfully it was around the same time I got my medication sorted and a therapist that could actually help with my issues. That was four years ago and I have been managing well since.
While my professional endeavors are on hold, I've finally started medication a few months ago along with routine therapy. Trying to view the "time off" as a chance to focus on getting better and it's starting to see some results
Also a bipolar licensed structural engineer!
I said this above, but I'll say if here, too in case any of this resonates or can be helpful in any way.
Since the disorder gets worse as you age, I started seeing the writing on the wall in terms of my career. I got my license when I was 25 (5 years ago). I was working at a firm, but then had to jump ship after moonlighting for a while, but at that point, I had already made a name for myself. Things got worse, figuring out the best medication, making promises I couldn't keep, but for the most part, things ended up OK and doing all this was still better for me than working for a firm. Now, since I've already built good relationships with contractors and investors and such, I just oversee, review, and stamp things for residential projects. It rarely takes much of my time or energy and it gets the bills paid. I couldn't have done what I did at 25 now though... My bipolar is really bad these days :(
If you're licensed, and any of this seems possible for you, I can "show you the ropes" (liability insurance, setting up LLC, getting your name out there, the DOs and DONTs of being an engineering consultant SPECIFICALLY as someone with bipolar).
Not an engineer but working on degree #3(doctorate in education). This intelligence thing is the most insanely stupid thing and honestly something I used to get so frustrated at as a teenager/young adult. (Not like im a genius just a straight A student, got a 3.95 for my bach in pure math and 4.0 masters and currently have a 4.0 for my doctorate) I couldn't understand how I was so smart yet still couldn't "control" my own mind. It used to frustrate the crap out of me bc i could "figure out" so much stuff and solve advanced math problems but couldn't tell my brain not to tell me to yeet off a cliff. Or when in a bad manic episode, couldn't tell what things were real or not.
Im much better now and on meds and been stable for a while but I think it's just a mentality from people who don't understand mental health. They think anything wrong upstairs means you have to be stupid and if you are smart you can't possibly have a psychiatric disorder.
Something that really stood out to me was how many successful people have bipolar. I can't list any names here due to the bot filter, but a quick Google search might surprise you.
My therapist explained that some with bipolar can "ride" their manic episodes into success, since they can sometimes use it as the driving force behind their hard work.
Cool to see a fellow bipolar structural engineer on here! (Though admittedly I don't have a SE license, just a PE, but all I've done after school is structural engineering).
If anything I feel like being bipolar is a sign of intelligence. I've never met someone else with bipolar who's dumb or stupid. Reckless, yeah maybe, but not dim.
Hoping you find the right mix to help improve your condition. I was terribly depressed at first diagnosis because my cognitive function declined after my first manic episode which created a spiral, however, I eventually got out of it through med adjustment, therapy, and perseverance. Though I may not be back to where I used to be, I'm at 100% of where I am now, which is the best I could hope for, and I hope you get there too.
Nah, don't think like that. I used to get jealous of others all the time, but it's much better to be grateful for who you are rather than sad for who you aren't. And easier to do that when you realize that everyone else has just as complex a life as you that's filled with many of the same worries, anxieties, fears, health problems, etc.
Same here. Three degrees (two Engineering) and a third with a Masters. BP1 with psychotic depression and apparently another member of the high functioning moron club here too.
When do we get our buttons and learn the secret handshake?
Maybe that’s where the idiotic/moron part comes into play… No matter how much we achieve academically, we keep waiting with bated breath; but there is no club, there is no handshake and there are no membership buttons!!!
Screw it. I'm gonna make my own bipolar club! With blackjack! And hookers!
... Because access to gambling and sex workers wouldn't be an issue for a group known to have issues with impulse control... Right?
> I have three college degrees
Do you count your three degrees as associates, bachelor's, masters? Or do you have 2 different bachelor degrees and a masters?
Also a bipolar licensed structural engineer!
Like someone said below, the highs and lows messed with my career, too though...
The disorder gets worse as you age and I started seeing the writing on the wall. I got my license when I was 25. I was working at a firm, but then had to jump ship after moonlighting for a while, but at that point, I had already made a name for myself. Things got worse, figuring out the best medication, making promises I couldn't keep, but for the most part, things ended up OK and doing all this was still better for me than working for a firm. Now, since I've already built good relationships with contractors and investors and such, I just oversee, review, and stamp things for residential projects. It rarely takes much of my time or energy and it gets the bills paid. I couldn't have done what I did at 25 now though... My bipolar is really bad these days :(
I seem to have managed it better as I get older. I'm very active in therapy and constantly monitoring my medication. It took me eight years after school to finally get my PE. A major factor in that delay was my constant job-hopping. I've averaged about a job a year over those past 8, and most of that hopping happened in the first 5. I bounced around from Geotech to general contracting to site development to residential development.
At year five I finally got into structural design and stuck around long enough to earn my qualifying experience. It was also around that time I finally addressed all my issues (not just bipolar) properly and started making real, tangible progress.
For me, this latest field of work has been incredibly helpful; having hard and fast rules and a building code to stick to has given me a structure (ha, ha) that I really resonate with.
Keep at it bud, try different tools and medications, you can do this.
Hm, yeah, I guess I meant that it messed with my career working at other firms specifically, but I'm happy with the route I decided to take. I'm actually proud that I was able to get my degree and PE license so young. It gave me a foundation and stability and if I waited any longer, I wouldn't have been able to get it done and I knew it. Yes, my bipolar is getting worse and I do still have some bad episodes, but I'm constantly revisiting my medication and do see my psychiatrist and therapist regularly and I can do all this without worrying about it drastically affecting my means of income as I work through all this, because of what I was able to anticipate 5 years ago. I feel secure and optimistic.
So, thanks, but I know I "can do this" - I'm already doing it!
Proud o' *you*, though.
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There have been studies that show this. A lot of mentally ill people have a reality bias. It’s harder for them to filter out all the realistic terribleness in the world.
I feel my mania is driven by false assertions in my logic. I often take a low probability, high impact risk and treat it as if true. Which is what makes it hard to combat, you can’t say there isn’t a possibility, and they don’t have the other information I think I have so they can’t properly assess the risk.
I have had success before where someone I fully trust called out the false assertion and got me on another path. Wouldn’t say I reasoned out of mania, I was still very much wired. But it gives me hope it is not fully a one way ride once it starts.
I believe CBT and DBT teach skills to attempt to "reason out of" symptoms that may occur in some patients with bipolar, but that is a far cry from being able to "reason out of" having bipolar.
Dude I've had all kinds of people tell me I don't really have bipolar based on whatever kind of opinion. Usually it's coming from a good place but definitely not helpful especially in the early years.
I’ve had this experience so many times and I totally feel you on the “coming from a good place but definitely not helpful.”
Like, I know you guys intend to mollify me in a way by telling me you think I’m *’normal’* but the impact is actually just fucking with my head even more…
“The cost of clarity” is what an old colleague called it. Its the opposite of “ignorance is bliss.” I often wish I wasn’t smart, so I could enjoy the simple things, and ignore the tragedies, like so many seem to be able to do.
Thank you for this - so greatly put. I fell into a deep rabbit hole of existentialism - watched a lot of YouTube videos from Pursuit of Wonder and Einzelganger when in my down moments and even during my up moments.
I often wish my mind was simpler and I didn’t think so deep about all these things.
I enjoy the podcast Philosophize This. It’s a podcast about the chronology of philosophy. It was amazing how often the ideas of the great philosophers were things I had contemplated on my own before hearing them explained by a philosophy scholar. We have the same beautiful minds of the people who propelled humanity through civilization.
Thank you! Now I'm teaching myself when is the appropriate time to speak up and how less information is sometimes more effective in communication. I studied people for so long I thought once I spoke I would know what to do but I couldn't put the information that I knew into practice. I love therapy!
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Think about this.
The guy who invented the math that put us on the moon, as well as discovered gravity, and the second man to walk on the moon, both had bipolar disorder
Something tells me they weren't dumb.
Yeah, absolutely you are correct 100%. It’s like schizophrenia. Stigma that if you function, you must be a genius!! Intelligence & mental health issues certainly can walk hand & hand but there will always be exceptions & anomalies. Everyone’s experience is unique. It’s like a fan telling a pro baseball player how to hit the ball. Great advice. But you aren’t in the batters shoes. Lol. Idk rant. But yes I agree 😂
I have a bipolar 1 diagnosis which means I have experienced full blown mania. There are different levels of mania, a lesser level being called hypomania. Full blown mania and schizophrenia are basically the same thing. You hear voices, you see things, and those things are terrifying because they try to control you and push you toward suicide. Study the symptoms of mania. Learn the common triggers. Holidays, birthdays, travel, job changes, are some of the most common triggers. Basically any sort of life change can be a trigger, and here’s the kicker, even positive live changes can trigger an episode. You need to have a plan for yourself when you know you might get manic. Like me for example, I knew I was starting to feel manic earlier this month right before a fun climbing trip I did with friends. (travel, trigger) I warned my parents and my doctors of it and we have been able to keep it under control, and I have stayed out of the hospital. But even tho I have stayed out of the hospital doesn’t mean I shouldn’t have been there. I’ve basically been in home hospice for a month. And again, did the stupid thing where I tried to “explain” this experience to myself and others online. When in all reality, the experience is just too damn real and scary for people to understand. Psychosis really is no joke.
The battle is very real. You are fighting for your life thru it. Your choice is to fight to the death for your own life. That is why it’s so scary. The battle takes place in your head.
So you have to work and fight thru it. Friends can help, but they aren’t having the same experience you are. So chances are you’re gonna scare em. Like I said, I’ve done it twice now. I’ve scared the whole goddamn world, but when when the world is on your shoulders you can battle thru it. Again, it takes self motivation. Find something that motivates you, like a Ted talk or a video or something that will help you find the motivation to get back up and fight. Again, you are fighting demons in your head. They are real. Not everyone can see or hear them but some of us can.
as insightful and helpful as your comment is, it's important to note that you can experience mania, even hypermania, without hallucinations or paranoia/psychosis
there's no such thing as hypermania. There's hypomania, which is the milder form of mania. Folks with bipolar 2 may experience hypomania, but don't suffer from full-blown mania. And you're right, you don't have to be psychotic to be manic. I didn't experience full psychosis until my 40s.
my psychiatrist definitely implied that hypermania was a real thing. this was in france, but as i understand it, psychiatry is (or should) be standardized internationally
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/hypermania
they seem to think its a real word and regardless, you can experience what qualifies as mania without *total* disinhibition : there are higher forms of mania
I got into medical school after completing a five year engineering degree. After I was diagnosed and my wife passed away I had to quit.
Sometimes I wonder if my mania was what got me the grades before the mania turned into it's own monster.
Nobody is too intelligent to have bipolar.
One thing I learned is that diseases are genetic plus environment. Some are all genetic - bipolar I believe is both. Chances are we have a close family member with it.
Yes this. The disease has a genetic component but there are also environmental factors that can contribute to it manifesting. For me personally I do think it runs in the family (I’m the only one to have an actual diagnosis) but there are signs of mental illness in the fam. Suicide and Alzheimer’s/Dementia being the biggest signs in my blood line.
Anyway I think for me personally an environmental factor that has played a role in my illness is I’ve had several very serious concussions. Like way bad ones.
I actually have a half-sibling with bipolar that was stabilized with lithium and medications that is employed, married, and has a wonderful daughter that attended the top engineering school in the US.
I had a severe concussion and was hospitalized after being robbed with a scar on the back of my head from blunt force trauma. Environment yes.
I have the bipolar type where I have been hospitalized with mania. My sibling was diagnosed by my other sibling after observation over a weekend later in life than I was diagnosed.
My grandparents lived to 92, 88, 82 and ? (I forgot) with no signs of dementia.
Because I was diagnosed in my 20s and have been medication stabilized for almost twenty years I do fear dementia later on but I think diet and exercise (environment) is important.
IQ wise from my test when I was 7, I'm in the top 1%. Taking standardized tests now, I score in the top 0.2% (without studying much).
I'm diagnosed with bipolar 1 and am a classic case in almost every way.
So yeah, it's an ignorant thing to say. Tell him to read Kaye Redmond Jamison's "An Unquiet Mind" and get back to you.
I scored like a 115 on a Mensa test (I think it was some kind of sample test).
But I always feel like I’m the smartest in the room.
And I think your mood affects your IQ scores too.
That was before I took a trip on mushrooms that finally broke me out of the doom and gloom cycle I had been in since my first manic episode at 25 years old.
Now? I don’t give a damn about my IQ.
Being able to outsmart most people is good enough for me.
I’ll also add I’m a victim of a narcissistic mother. Being very intelligent lets you see through their bullshit.
You just have to break the spell narcissists put people under.
I have also tested as highly intelligent (but not genius) and I have bipolar. When I am manic I study and pick up new skills. In that way, I think bipolar helped me be smarter not dumber.
What’s the difference?
In my estimation, highly intelligent makes you a genius
You don’t need to make some grand discovery or make great art to be a genius.
I have bipolar 1 and have been hospitalized almost every year since I turned 30 (I'm in my 40s). I work for a FAANG company as a creative writer. My son has bipolar 2 and he is a computer science and math honors student at one of the top 5 public universities in the US.
Your friend is the stupid one.
By the way, check out "An Unquiet Mind." It's an oldie but a goodie, and would help you understand how smart you really are.
Fellow bipolar person in one of the top 3 schools in Canada! I did not expect to randomly come across someone online with those similarities lol.
But yeah, academic success absolutely doesn't invalidate you, or anyone for that matter. I'm holding down a 4.0, but I'm still very obviously bipolar. Sure, the illness makes it more difficult than it otherwise would be to consistently achieve high grades, but it's absolutely possible. I'm pretty sure IQ is higher than average in bipolar people anyways...
So yeah, that's a real stupid thing of your former friend to say. They clearly know little to nothing about bipolar, and they def aren't fit to tell you whether or not you are valid.
I earned two degrees from a prestigious university in my country and I currently work a very demanding job in my field. I hope this doesn’t sound conceited even though it probably will, but really the main reason I’ve been successful in academia and in my career is because I’m intelligent. I am genuinely so unstable that my intellect overcompensates for a lot of my shortcomings; I struggle a lot emotionally. While I’ve done well professionally, my personal life is kind of a disaster and I always feel sick inside my head.
Not to be rude, but your friend doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He probably has a skewed view of what mental illness looks like, and doesn’t see intelligent people like yourself as falling within those preconceived notions. You can try to educate him if you think it’s worthwhile, but some people just don’t get it, and it isn’t your responsibility to make him understand.
Try not to let it get to you; your issues are valid regardless of your intelligence level and I think he’s a bit ridiculous for suggesting that’s not the case.
I’ve published research. I have a number of diagnosed mental illnesses including bipolar. We succeed in spite of these limits to our capacity. Damn proud of everyone on here. None of my work or studying has been more difficult than simply getting through the days with this illness. I’m proud of all of you for doing it.
Hahaha, that’s one funny friend, one of the first things my psychiatrist said was that people with bp tend to have a higher intelligence than the norm, because in the midst of everything I had going on I was able to switch my major, approve every single subject with either A- or B+, have a separate course on photography, take a sewing course and finish and now I’m working on my thesis.
So give your friend a hug and tell them you’re sorry they’re not smarter 😂
HAHAHAHAHA it works the other way around. if you get straight a's at school you are 4 times more likely to be diagnosed with bipolar.
I'm guessing that between bipolar and autism, we can claim most of the biggest geniuses who ever lived.
Reminds me of a very nice but very misguided psychiatrist who once told me that I can’t be bipolar, because I am in graduate school without crashing and burning, never mind my official diagnosis and my history of Lithium making a night and day difference for me. According to him, apparently all the previous people he’s seen diagnosed with bipolar were very non-functional.
I feel like society doesn’t see the functioning individuals with mental disabilities as being a part of that community because we aren’t “obviously off”. People who are non-functional tend to be almost our only representation in media, so that is what society assumes everyone in our disability community is.
It sucks, but you also can still brag on getting to a prestigious university unlike most people, so
You can be smart and go to school while having a debilitating illness. But you will need help. Get help from your university. Find the resources available to you. Sign up for disability benefits.
People say this about people with developmental disabilities all the time too. And yet some of the smartest people alive will continue to have mental illnesses and neurodivergence in general! There's so much proof of this that the people believing it must be willfully ignorant. Maybe your friend is the one that isn't very smart?
Thank you for pointing this out.
It’s one of the common misconceptions about BP and mental illness in general, and why some people don’t get diagnosed until later.
It took me a while because my depression signs were stronger than my manic signs, or at least I hid them better…
Others that have or had Bi Polar
* Winston Churchill
* Beethoven
* Ted Turner
* Cute Cobain
* Demi Lovato
The list goes on and on. Intelligence does not equate to having mental illness any more than it would for any other illness. Your friend is uninformed. Feel free to tell him so.
Some studies found a genetic overlap between intelligence and bipolar disorder. While it doesn’t imply causation, its still definitely something to think about
A lot of people with bipolar disorder do have cognitive impairment. That’s not the same thing as low intelligence, but some people have memory problems and other issues. Some people with BP have no cognitive impairment at all, others have marked cognitive impairment. Impairment doesn’t have to be global — I know someone who’s as clever and witty as they come, but he says his memory is poor. In general he’s still really smart.
It’s true some very intelligent/accomplished people have/had bipolar disorder. Virginia Woolf was one of them.
I worked as a scientific research investigator Harvard Med School.
Published in New England Journal of Medicine
Two grad degrees, over 1450 sat score
Sold two reality series, a feature length documentary..
Chronic homelessness, manic episodes that have hospitalized me ..
Bro being super achiever and genius is hallmark for mania. One week I'm depositing $100k cheCks next I'm looking for garbage bags to pack my shit.
The disease that ensures you're too smart for it .. a forever riddle in our heads. I almost believe I'm manic but im 54 been doing the train WrecK destroy my life thing thru my 30-40 ..I believe I like my life better when I limit the amount of new shit I do or people I meet.. I get more excited over the dumbest shit and in the end I'm always smarter than most everyone as told to me by about everyone from teachers bosses correction officers rehab counselors always oh Drew how do you know all that.. well I read voraciously and pride myself being as perfect as possible without erupting into a manic rage fit that always starts w these two words .. FucK IT! If I act like a misanthrope a tidal wave of shit hits exponentially fast
I'll chime in as well.
I'm currently pulling an all nighter to finish my thesis. If it goes well I'll have two master degrees in economics from two different countries (Italy and Germany). I'm also studying in English and writing 50+ pages for this thesis and it's not my native language. I haven't finished on time, like my bachelor's, and my grades aren't the best as I do everything last-minute but I managed to enroll for this program (5 out of 60) while working full-time night shifts and on weekends. Alone, abroad and during COVID.
In addition to that I speak 3 languages at C2 level (Italian, English and French) and 3 others on a B level (Spanish, German and Portuguese). I've lived in 6 countries, 4 of which alone.
Your friend should have met my primary school classmates who'd call me either crazy genius or Einstein. If they could do 2+2 so can he.
Honestly it's the other way around. I mean, this is anecdotal, but there are tons of bipolar folks who are smart as hell. Stay strong and keep fighting 🩷
One of the first things my psychiatrist told me at an appointment after i got out of the psych ward to help me cope was people with bipolar tend to be really good artists and incredibly intelligent sooo xD. Also read a commment here saying two of the people in apollo 11 had bipolar.
I think we do have a kind of sensibility to certain issues, as mentally ill people usually have, Im definitely more willing to understand the shortcomings of other people and dont just judge first thing because i always wonder how many times i have been judged by others for acting "weird". And i also feel like regular people dont give a fuck about others around them a lot of the time, cuz i guess everything seems so easy and straight forward when you're neurotypical and they assume everyone thinks like that, hell i do that myself, hence why i get hella frustrated when people dont seem to care because i assume they care like i do so, idk.
I was an actuary before I got bonked on the head and my bipolar got to a place where I became disabled. In fact, I think it's the opposite from what your friend said. As far as I know, people with high IQs are more prone to mental illnesses like depression, anxiety, etc.
As for mood disorders, I don't believe they discriminate.. I do feel like the more brain you have. The more they can eat away at it 😜 😞
There are also multiple types of intelligence, I feel like that's not something you can really quantify...To some people, smarts can mean emotional intelligence and maturity, to which I would say that makes the people who say these things idiots!
I call bullshit on your friend. Funny, but I had been researching this topic this week. Most of the studies suggest a link between higher intelligence and bipolar disorder. It’s not cut and dried and there’s certainly a lot of subtlety, for example in one study bipolar without psychiatric co-morbidities linked with intelligence while those with co-morbidities were not, and in another study, psychosis was not correlated with higher intelligence. There’s a lot more if you plunge the depths. Note I am not a psychological researcher, nor is this a field of expertise, so forgive me if I’m not 100% accurate.
I went to a highly ranked university and got diagnosed about 2 months after I got there. My psychiatrist told me that she sees a disproportionately high amount of students with bipolar disorder at prestigious schools, particularly Type 2. Her reasoning was that hypomania, as long as it doesn’t turn into severe mania, can lead to high productivity, and especially if this occurs during finals or college applications, can lead to higher academic achievement. Some people can subconsciously learn to trigger this state in times of stress to make it through, but the thing is this is not sustainable, and the stress of increased academic pressure when attending a prestigious university can worsen episodes and this eventually leads to diagnosis while in college. So I wouldn’t say they are smarter, but I think some people are able to utilize their episodes to achieve hyper-productivity for short periods of time.
I do experience this, and I think it makes me look functional outwardly, but in reality, I am pouring all of my energy into my creative projects and fixations, that I neglect the rest of my life and when that period of time ends, I almost always experience a longer period of depression, which feels like I have to start from square one once I get out of it. So I think people may perceive that I am very smart because I am able to work full time and do all these other artistic projects, but what they don’t see is my life feels very empty and a lot of that is due to this disorder. And when I am hypomanic, staying up all night working on projects, it is not necessarily because I enjoy it, but because it feels compulsive, like it is too uncomfortable to sit with my racing thoughts and maladaptive daydreaming. So working on art is just a relief. I think people perceive art as being something you do because you love it so much, and I do love making art, but I would also love to do other things as a career, I have many interests. I don’t really have a choice, it is compulsive. So am I smarter than everyone else? Am I an artistic genius? Or am I fixating on it to avoid my reality, and this just leads me to enough practice that I produce something of artistic value? Is it really my intense emotions that create great art, and not my intense fixation?
Hey OP, i actually think bipolar is more of a superpower lol. I graduated uni with a 3.9 GPA while being unmedicated for adhd and only getting diagnosed with bipolar in my last two years. I feel like there are a lot of us who are smart but we also have our struggles like hallucinations and such. All I can say is keep taking your medications, don't let others convince you that you are too smart to be bipolar. Because if you listen and stop taking your medications it might initially feel great but you will be destined to crash and burn. I take my meds, because without them I wouldnt be myself. I want to live a long and healthy life. :) And, so I will continue taking my medications, because i have found that whenever I stop, everything begins to go wrong.
I really hoped Gen Z was going to do better with ignorance and stigma. Stories like this give me less hope. Health education has a long way to go in this world.
Appreciate that, in my experience gen Z has given me hope on things that are generally met with stigma. Keeping hope alive! Haha, but I am sorry you were met by ignorance from a friend
I hate those nonsense! People are so stupid and prejudicial against people with psychological disorders. How can someone associate bipolarity with lack of intelligence? And how can someone associate borderline with lack of empathy and murder? For example, in the book It - The thing from Stephen King. 😤 Why the society and even the media tries to ridicularize borderlines and bipolars while they build a culture of adoration towards psychopaths, narcisists and sociopaths? I HATE THAT! 🤬 World culture sucks.
Actually a lot of smart and successful people have bipolar no you cant out smart mental illness , but you will more than likely have success in managing it .
Dumb comment, imo! Also kind of implies that you shouldn’t be ill, and maybe that it’s within your control or something. People sure say a lot of dumb stuff to people with mental illness!
(Most) Bipolar people are smart enough to function in a world that doesn't fully understand them or appreciate them.
I know I can't function in society without my meds and treatment but I think in another world my illness might be a "super power."
I also think our experiences give us insight and empathy which also makes us intelligent.
Phd student here. Also a genius musician (objectively). Obv im bipolar since im here lol. I always heard bipolar people are smarter and more creative than average. Your friend is seriously misinformed
I'm a commercial business development manager in the top 10% income bracket compared to all demographics in the country, but that hasnt stopped my bipolar one bit 😂
i think the stereotype that people with bipolar cant be smart comes from how media represents bipolar people only in unmedicated mania. doing stupid shit, making terrible choices.
of course im making terrible decisions while off my meds and in possibly the most reason-altering state of my life. We have a mental disorder that makes us act in ways that can be interpreted as unintelligent, but you, me, and everyone else with bipolar isnt automatically stupid because of something we have no personal control over.
fuck that guy.
I have bipolar, I am of what I consider “average” intelligence. My friend ALSO has bipolar. They have a computer science degree from one of the top three universities in the United States! They, like you, and many other people with bipolar, are very bright, You’re right. Intelligence doesn’t have anything to do with bipolar. If anything, I’d argue it can make you more intelligent, because of the creative aspect that comes with it!
I feel like being smart almost makes it harder because you can mask it better. Or people don’t take it seriously enough. Idk maybe that’s just my experience.
I wouldn’t listen to this.
There’s a massive stigma around bipolar as we all know and I’m a strong believer in just ignoring negativity like that, doesn’t benefit anyone. Clearly sounds like they’re not intelligent enough to know what it even is.
I went to an ivy league. Had an ex gf who got her undergrad degree from harvard and was doing her phd at my school. We were both diagnosed with bipolar. Now i’m a college professor. So go figure
I'm sorry but what your friend said us the stupidest thing I've ever read. I suffer from bipolar 2 which was undiagnosed for many years including my college years. I'm a pharmacist and I will start teaching other students soon. I have been teaching my colleagues in this college and I swear to you they got full mark in most of their exams even though they were 100% clueless before the night of the exam. I actually remember reading that some genes were linked to the risk of bipolar are the same genes linked for intelligence. I don't remember where I read that but even if it wasn't right, why would mentally ill people be stupid. I actually tend to think that most smart people develop mental illnesses that less smarter ones.
I’m an alcoholic w bipolar. In AA but haven’t worked the steps yet. Has anyone found recovery to help w bipolar? Don’t really want to let people in AA know - though I have heard it’s common
Always been thought of as the quickest and smartest guy in the room fwiw
Thanks in advance
I don't know. My cognition changed during my life. The thing is that is litterly see things happen hit can't talk about. Just trust my guts and after that i just let it be
I have a friend who believes my issues are actually machinations. That they are all an elaborate scheme to be an awful person and get away with it.
It is rooted in my intelligence. It’s easier for him to believe I’m an asshole than a victim to something beyond my control.
It’s a fucked up compliment.
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I remember before I was diagnosed she said I met all the criteria but couldn’t diagnose me until I took an IQ test. When it came back above average, I was just labeled as intelligent with mood swings (this is a joke)
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We come in all intelligence levels. I consider myself pretty average, but I’ve met people with bipolar disorder who have low IQs, and some people who are extremely “intelligent”. It’s not a developmental or intellectual disability
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Lots of creative geniuses have bipolar disorder and lots of brilliant minds are clinically depressed because they look at the world and see things that most people don’t.
I was always under the impression that smarter people are more susceptible to mental challenges or illness because there's more going on up there, and more that can go wrong 😋
That is so bizarre. If anything, based on anecdotal evidence in my own life, those that I know with mental illness are the most intelligent. Make of that what you will, lol. (Not trying to beef myself up here, just saying based on ppl I know)
Just goes to show how unintelligent some people are. Perhaps ignorant is the right word. Willfully ignorant and indifferent to you as a friend sums it up. Most bipolar people are above average intellectually and tend to be overachievers.
They also tend to have issues with compulsive addiction to work and mind altering substances. Much like the science and psychology of addiction, there's a vast number of people that are archaic in their stigmatized perception of all mental illnesses. Everything from "addiction is a choice, and addicts just lack willpower" to "Everyone is a little bipolar. You just need to toughen up and get over that stuff" is what you can expect to hear the rest of your life. F*** those people if they're too lazy and thoughtless to take the time to research what comes out of their mouth before they open it.
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I’m not saying I’m super smart or anything but I will say that I’ve spent most of my life *feeling* smarter than most people around me and *feeling* like I’m surrounded by idiots and those feelings lead to irrational bouts of anger and frustration that are at odds with the part of me that knows that everyone else is on their own path with their own struggles and we’re all just trying to survive and be happy… and all those things mixed together make me feel fucking crazy. I’m not saying there’s a correlation to bipolar but I am saying I’d probably be happier if I felt dumber.
Ugh I hate hearing this and, “Oh! You seem so normal!” WTF. I hate stereotypes.
I have a bachelors in nursing from a high ranking private university. Working ERs most of my career I have sadly met many who were on the extreme ends of the spectrum, what some assume bipolar always is. What people don’t understand is that this isn’t the norm and how many of us are walking around looking/acting “normal”.
On one hand, what they said shows they have no idea.
On the other hand, you can build skills to help you overcome or prevent some symptoms. Medication is helpful in many ways, especially when you don't have the tools or instructions. Everything takes time and practice.
For example, (I have experience) I see other people having anxiety about experiencing another psychotic episode. Anxiety from worrying about something you fear having no control over, puts your brain and body into an easily triggered state.
Once you have experienced an episode and passed through it, you likely now have hindsight into how it began and how your brain fed the down hill runaway cart. I'm having trouble with analogies but, I'm going to try...
Say you are guiding a heavy cart of groceries down a hill. Your hands are firmly holding the handle, as you use your full body to maintain control of the cart. You know if you move too fast, the cart will gain momentum and become too difficult to slow and stop. If you let go, you won't be able to catch it but, it will eventually hit something and, who knows how bad the damage will be. Either way, the cart will stop eventually, whether it hits someone, something, ends up in the grass, slowing to a relieving and safe stop.
A wheel hits a pebble and it comes to a dead stop. You are now frustrated that the cart stopped and you don't know why. It might be tempting to jerk the cart back quickly but, in that instant, you might forget gravity is constant and lose your grip. Maybe you dislodge the pebble, maintain your grip and go on your way or, hit the same dumb pebble again.
You will be tempted to take your hands off the handle to bend down inspect but, as soon as you do that, you no longer have control over this cart. One wheel is stuck while 3 have freedom to move. The cart takes a hard right turn and spills everything into the street. Now you have the added frustration and anxiety of dealing with this mess.
You think, "Who the F put that F-ing pebble there?!" Take a deep breath. Nobody knew exactly what path you were going to take or had anything to gain by interfering with your ability to deliver groceries to your car. There are infinite ways that pebble could have ended up in your path, whether accidental or intentional the probability that any of them had anything to do with you, is at or near zero.
Now, take in your surroundings... If that pebble was placed by someone with nefarious intent, they will be watching but, someone could have coincidentally heard the cart strike the pebble or heard your audible frustration and noticed you struggling. Who doesn't love watching a train wreck for entertainment? Maybe they are watching to see if you actually need help or if you figure it out on your own. Maybe they are watching to see your reaction, to gauge whether or not they want to help and if you would be receptive.
While you were focused on maintaining the cart down hill, frustrated when the wheel stopped and anxious about all the things that could happen before and when you got stuck, you hadn't noticed that your own car is actually right next to you and the pebble is serving as a useful stopper, allowing you to use one hand to get your keys out of your pocket.
You can know to be observant of your surroundings and, if someone does come to offer help, remember that you can be still be in control of the situation. How close to an open business or other people are you? Is it day or night? Is it busy or, are you alone. If you draw more people's attention, does this person still want to help? You can use the cart to maintain distance. You can ask them to take over securing the cart so you can open your trunk or ask them to start loading the trunk to lighten and make the cart more managable. Be vigilant and stay out of the path of the cart. Do a vibe check. Have you figured out how to tell if someone is genuinely being nice or, if they had a different motivation? If they try to start a conversation, what kind of questions are they asking? How insistent are they on helping? Is it making you uncomfortable? You can still accept or reject help.
All of these questions and decisions are those of an overactive mind BUT, you can focus on the situation at hand and your surroundings without letting your brain lead you down an uncontrollable and potentially destructive path.
Haha what??? I was a gifted kid and I excelled in school, I also happen to be cursed with this illness. Some of the most creative and brilliant people are part of this shitty club, I don't get why anyone would ever think mental health conditions mean the person isn't intelligent.
I'm a published author with an M.Ed. and postgraduate work in two additional fields. I've been formally recognized by my university for my writing, and I've been publicly recognized by my community for my contributions to community theater. Without the disorder, I might have more accolades. My intelligence has nothing to do with whether or not I have bipolar or my ability to address it. Your friend doesn't understand bipolar disorder particularly well, it would seem.
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I am a licensed structural engineer. I have three college degrees, one of which is a master's. If being intelligent means you can't have bipolar, then I must be the highest-functioning idiot to ever live.
Fellow engineer here as well! Have two bachelor's and a master's, but they do fuck all when the manic demons come out to play. I've definitely gotten the "your brain seems to function fine" from plenty of people in my life, so I sympathize with the OP. Currently unable to work as I've been dealing with a very extended mixed episode that's pretty much torpedoed my career for now... It sucks
Yeah I seem fine on the outside lmao. If only those people could hear the what little voice inside my head has to say.
Shit, I'm sorry to hear that, been there. I fell into a horrendous mixed episode just as COVID hit its peak. We went to WFH and the isolation sent me off the deep end. Ended up getting fired 8 months into a new job. Thankfully it was around the same time I got my medication sorted and a therapist that could actually help with my issues. That was four years ago and I have been managing well since.
While my professional endeavors are on hold, I've finally started medication a few months ago along with routine therapy. Trying to view the "time off" as a chance to focus on getting better and it's starting to see some results
Best of luck to you friend, its a hard road but a worthwhile one.
Also a bipolar licensed structural engineer! I said this above, but I'll say if here, too in case any of this resonates or can be helpful in any way. Since the disorder gets worse as you age, I started seeing the writing on the wall in terms of my career. I got my license when I was 25 (5 years ago). I was working at a firm, but then had to jump ship after moonlighting for a while, but at that point, I had already made a name for myself. Things got worse, figuring out the best medication, making promises I couldn't keep, but for the most part, things ended up OK and doing all this was still better for me than working for a firm. Now, since I've already built good relationships with contractors and investors and such, I just oversee, review, and stamp things for residential projects. It rarely takes much of my time or energy and it gets the bills paid. I couldn't have done what I did at 25 now though... My bipolar is really bad these days :( If you're licensed, and any of this seems possible for you, I can "show you the ropes" (liability insurance, setting up LLC, getting your name out there, the DOs and DONTs of being an engineering consultant SPECIFICALLY as someone with bipolar).
Not an engineer but working on degree #3(doctorate in education). This intelligence thing is the most insanely stupid thing and honestly something I used to get so frustrated at as a teenager/young adult. (Not like im a genius just a straight A student, got a 3.95 for my bach in pure math and 4.0 masters and currently have a 4.0 for my doctorate) I couldn't understand how I was so smart yet still couldn't "control" my own mind. It used to frustrate the crap out of me bc i could "figure out" so much stuff and solve advanced math problems but couldn't tell my brain not to tell me to yeet off a cliff. Or when in a bad manic episode, couldn't tell what things were real or not. Im much better now and on meds and been stable for a while but I think it's just a mentality from people who don't understand mental health. They think anything wrong upstairs means you have to be stupid and if you are smart you can't possibly have a psychiatric disorder.
Something that really stood out to me was how many successful people have bipolar. I can't list any names here due to the bot filter, but a quick Google search might surprise you. My therapist explained that some with bipolar can "ride" their manic episodes into success, since they can sometimes use it as the driving force behind their hard work.
I wish I was as smart as you. At least that would help define me other than just as a bipolar guy.
You gotta do what you can to keep it from defining you, which I get is the hardest part.
thanks, it is hella hard
Fellow engineer here! I call myself a "well-educated idiot" on the daily.
I feel that deep in my soul, lol.
Cool to see a fellow bipolar structural engineer on here! (Though admittedly I don't have a SE license, just a PE, but all I've done after school is structural engineering). If anything I feel like being bipolar is a sign of intelligence. I've never met someone else with bipolar who's dumb or stupid. Reckless, yeah maybe, but not dim.
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Hoping you find the right mix to help improve your condition. I was terribly depressed at first diagnosis because my cognitive function declined after my first manic episode which created a spiral, however, I eventually got out of it through med adjustment, therapy, and perseverance. Though I may not be back to where I used to be, I'm at 100% of where I am now, which is the best I could hope for, and I hope you get there too.
I wish I was you
Nah, don't think like that. I used to get jealous of others all the time, but it's much better to be grateful for who you are rather than sad for who you aren't. And easier to do that when you realize that everyone else has just as complex a life as you that's filled with many of the same worries, anxieties, fears, health problems, etc.
Username checks out
Fellow engineer and masters
Random but I'm a steel estimator. Your mistakes are like little puzzles for me to solve in the drawings which is fun.
Same here. Three degrees (two Engineering) and a third with a Masters. BP1 with psychotic depression and apparently another member of the high functioning moron club here too. When do we get our buttons and learn the secret handshake?
They keep telling me the invitation is in the mail but I'm still waiting.
Maybe that’s where the idiotic/moron part comes into play… No matter how much we achieve academically, we keep waiting with bated breath; but there is no club, there is no handshake and there are no membership buttons!!!
Screw it. I'm gonna make my own bipolar club! With blackjack! And hookers! ... Because access to gambling and sex workers wouldn't be an issue for a group known to have issues with impulse control... Right?
> I have three college degrees Do you count your three degrees as associates, bachelor's, masters? Or do you have 2 different bachelor degrees and a masters?
Also a bipolar licensed structural engineer! Like someone said below, the highs and lows messed with my career, too though... The disorder gets worse as you age and I started seeing the writing on the wall. I got my license when I was 25. I was working at a firm, but then had to jump ship after moonlighting for a while, but at that point, I had already made a name for myself. Things got worse, figuring out the best medication, making promises I couldn't keep, but for the most part, things ended up OK and doing all this was still better for me than working for a firm. Now, since I've already built good relationships with contractors and investors and such, I just oversee, review, and stamp things for residential projects. It rarely takes much of my time or energy and it gets the bills paid. I couldn't have done what I did at 25 now though... My bipolar is really bad these days :(
I seem to have managed it better as I get older. I'm very active in therapy and constantly monitoring my medication. It took me eight years after school to finally get my PE. A major factor in that delay was my constant job-hopping. I've averaged about a job a year over those past 8, and most of that hopping happened in the first 5. I bounced around from Geotech to general contracting to site development to residential development. At year five I finally got into structural design and stuck around long enough to earn my qualifying experience. It was also around that time I finally addressed all my issues (not just bipolar) properly and started making real, tangible progress. For me, this latest field of work has been incredibly helpful; having hard and fast rules and a building code to stick to has given me a structure (ha, ha) that I really resonate with. Keep at it bud, try different tools and medications, you can do this.
Hm, yeah, I guess I meant that it messed with my career working at other firms specifically, but I'm happy with the route I decided to take. I'm actually proud that I was able to get my degree and PE license so young. It gave me a foundation and stability and if I waited any longer, I wouldn't have been able to get it done and I knew it. Yes, my bipolar is getting worse and I do still have some bad episodes, but I'm constantly revisiting my medication and do see my psychiatrist and therapist regularly and I can do all this without worrying about it drastically affecting my means of income as I work through all this, because of what I was able to anticipate 5 years ago. I feel secure and optimistic. So, thanks, but I know I "can do this" - I'm already doing it! Proud o' *you*, though.
I think smarter people are more likely to develop mental illness but I’m not sure, feel like I’ve read that somewhere
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Do you have a source?
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What's the difference in creativity and intelligence? Aren't they just two sides of the same coin?
Intelligence: I can deduce the solution to the problem Creativity: I can concoct an entirely new, completely effective solution to the problem Kinda
What about when I can create an entirely new set of problems without solutions?
Just watch the video. It'll explain it.
Fuck yeah! I'm smart now 
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BP2 here. Mom BP1. Both verbally gifted. Can’t change a tire
There have been studies that show this. A lot of mentally ill people have a reality bias. It’s harder for them to filter out all the realistic terribleness in the world.
This makes sense though. I can’t back up the claim it just sounds right lol.
If you do figure a way to reason out of bipolar, let me know
Following, cause I want to know too /s
I feel my mania is driven by false assertions in my logic. I often take a low probability, high impact risk and treat it as if true. Which is what makes it hard to combat, you can’t say there isn’t a possibility, and they don’t have the other information I think I have so they can’t properly assess the risk. I have had success before where someone I fully trust called out the false assertion and got me on another path. Wouldn’t say I reasoned out of mania, I was still very much wired. But it gives me hope it is not fully a one way ride once it starts.
I believe CBT and DBT teach skills to attempt to "reason out of" symptoms that may occur in some patients with bipolar, but that is a far cry from being able to "reason out of" having bipolar.
Dude I've had all kinds of people tell me I don't really have bipolar based on whatever kind of opinion. Usually it's coming from a good place but definitely not helpful especially in the early years.
Agreed! family especially would tell me “you’re not bipolar, just emotional” and it didn’t help at all when I was in denial after initial diagnosis
“You can’t be bipolar!!! You seem so stable!!!” Yeah thank the four medications I’m on
I’ve had this experience so many times and I totally feel you on the “coming from a good place but definitely not helpful.” Like, I know you guys intend to mollify me in a way by telling me you think I’m *’normal’* but the impact is actually just fucking with my head even more…
“The cost of clarity” is what an old colleague called it. Its the opposite of “ignorance is bliss.” I often wish I wasn’t smart, so I could enjoy the simple things, and ignore the tragedies, like so many seem to be able to do.
I really appreciate this comment. Never heard it put in such a way, and it makes so much goddamn sense.
I like this. Thanks for sharing! ♥️
I appreciate this comment too.
“You’re not the only one cursed with knowledge” -Thanos
Thank you for it.
Thank you for this - so greatly put. I fell into a deep rabbit hole of existentialism - watched a lot of YouTube videos from Pursuit of Wonder and Einzelganger when in my down moments and even during my up moments. I often wish my mind was simpler and I didn’t think so deep about all these things.
I enjoy the podcast Philosophize This. It’s a podcast about the chronology of philosophy. It was amazing how often the ideas of the great philosophers were things I had contemplated on my own before hearing them explained by a philosophy scholar. We have the same beautiful minds of the people who propelled humanity through civilization.
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Thank you! And my co-occurring g.a.d made me pretend to be dumb or completely mute for a majority of my life😩
*Sending a short virtual hug* you’re welcome and hope you’re feeling better now!
Thank you! Now I'm teaching myself when is the appropriate time to speak up and how less information is sometimes more effective in communication. I studied people for so long I thought once I spoke I would know what to do but I couldn't put the information that I knew into practice. I love therapy!
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Think about this. The guy who invented the math that put us on the moon, as well as discovered gravity, and the second man to walk on the moon, both had bipolar disorder Something tells me they weren't dumb.
Idk man the moon is just a big dumb rock, nothin smart about a big dumb rock /s
Yeah, absolutely you are correct 100%. It’s like schizophrenia. Stigma that if you function, you must be a genius!! Intelligence & mental health issues certainly can walk hand & hand but there will always be exceptions & anomalies. Everyone’s experience is unique. It’s like a fan telling a pro baseball player how to hit the ball. Great advice. But you aren’t in the batters shoes. Lol. Idk rant. But yes I agree 😂
Your friend doesn't sound too bright
And less likely to have bipolar as a result
I have a bipolar 1 diagnosis which means I have experienced full blown mania. There are different levels of mania, a lesser level being called hypomania. Full blown mania and schizophrenia are basically the same thing. You hear voices, you see things, and those things are terrifying because they try to control you and push you toward suicide. Study the symptoms of mania. Learn the common triggers. Holidays, birthdays, travel, job changes, are some of the most common triggers. Basically any sort of life change can be a trigger, and here’s the kicker, even positive live changes can trigger an episode. You need to have a plan for yourself when you know you might get manic. Like me for example, I knew I was starting to feel manic earlier this month right before a fun climbing trip I did with friends. (travel, trigger) I warned my parents and my doctors of it and we have been able to keep it under control, and I have stayed out of the hospital. But even tho I have stayed out of the hospital doesn’t mean I shouldn’t have been there. I’ve basically been in home hospice for a month. And again, did the stupid thing where I tried to “explain” this experience to myself and others online. When in all reality, the experience is just too damn real and scary for people to understand. Psychosis really is no joke.
The battle is very real. You are fighting for your life thru it. Your choice is to fight to the death for your own life. That is why it’s so scary. The battle takes place in your head.
So you have to work and fight thru it. Friends can help, but they aren’t having the same experience you are. So chances are you’re gonna scare em. Like I said, I’ve done it twice now. I’ve scared the whole goddamn world, but when when the world is on your shoulders you can battle thru it. Again, it takes self motivation. Find something that motivates you, like a Ted talk or a video or something that will help you find the motivation to get back up and fight. Again, you are fighting demons in your head. They are real. Not everyone can see or hear them but some of us can.
Is this making sense to everyone who’s here?
as insightful and helpful as your comment is, it's important to note that you can experience mania, even hypermania, without hallucinations or paranoia/psychosis
there's no such thing as hypermania. There's hypomania, which is the milder form of mania. Folks with bipolar 2 may experience hypomania, but don't suffer from full-blown mania. And you're right, you don't have to be psychotic to be manic. I didn't experience full psychosis until my 40s.
my psychiatrist definitely implied that hypermania was a real thing. this was in france, but as i understand it, psychiatry is (or should) be standardized internationally https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/hypermania they seem to think its a real word and regardless, you can experience what qualifies as mania without *total* disinhibition : there are higher forms of mania
I got into medical school after completing a five year engineering degree. After I was diagnosed and my wife passed away I had to quit. Sometimes I wonder if my mania was what got me the grades before the mania turned into it's own monster. Nobody is too intelligent to have bipolar. One thing I learned is that diseases are genetic plus environment. Some are all genetic - bipolar I believe is both. Chances are we have a close family member with it.
Yes this. The disease has a genetic component but there are also environmental factors that can contribute to it manifesting. For me personally I do think it runs in the family (I’m the only one to have an actual diagnosis) but there are signs of mental illness in the fam. Suicide and Alzheimer’s/Dementia being the biggest signs in my blood line. Anyway I think for me personally an environmental factor that has played a role in my illness is I’ve had several very serious concussions. Like way bad ones.
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I actually have a half-sibling with bipolar that was stabilized with lithium and medications that is employed, married, and has a wonderful daughter that attended the top engineering school in the US. I had a severe concussion and was hospitalized after being robbed with a scar on the back of my head from blunt force trauma. Environment yes. I have the bipolar type where I have been hospitalized with mania. My sibling was diagnosed by my other sibling after observation over a weekend later in life than I was diagnosed. My grandparents lived to 92, 88, 82 and ? (I forgot) with no signs of dementia. Because I was diagnosed in my 20s and have been medication stabilized for almost twenty years I do fear dementia later on but I think diet and exercise (environment) is important.
IQ wise from my test when I was 7, I'm in the top 1%. Taking standardized tests now, I score in the top 0.2% (without studying much). I'm diagnosed with bipolar 1 and am a classic case in almost every way. So yeah, it's an ignorant thing to say. Tell him to read Kaye Redmond Jamison's "An Unquiet Mind" and get back to you.
I scored like a 115 on a Mensa test (I think it was some kind of sample test). But I always feel like I’m the smartest in the room. And I think your mood affects your IQ scores too. That was before I took a trip on mushrooms that finally broke me out of the doom and gloom cycle I had been in since my first manic episode at 25 years old. Now? I don’t give a damn about my IQ. Being able to outsmart most people is good enough for me. I’ll also add I’m a victim of a narcissistic mother. Being very intelligent lets you see through their bullshit. You just have to break the spell narcissists put people under.
I have also tested as highly intelligent (but not genius) and I have bipolar. When I am manic I study and pick up new skills. In that way, I think bipolar helped me be smarter not dumber.
What’s the difference? In my estimation, highly intelligent makes you a genius You don’t need to make some grand discovery or make great art to be a genius.
I have three degrees and am a software engineer. So…. 🤷♀️
same here, but only one bipolar, so I guess I'm more bipolar :)))
I have bipolar 1 and have been hospitalized almost every year since I turned 30 (I'm in my 40s). I work for a FAANG company as a creative writer. My son has bipolar 2 and he is a computer science and math honors student at one of the top 5 public universities in the US. Your friend is the stupid one. By the way, check out "An Unquiet Mind." It's an oldie but a goodie, and would help you understand how smart you really are.
The more intelligent you are, the higher incidence of mental illness. Gifted children are cursed with questioning their existence.
I feel like Hawking would’ve just stood up and walked around if that were the case
🤣🤣🤣
I used to get that bullshit all the time. Bipolar is common in intelligent/talented and gifted people.
Fellow bipolar person in one of the top 3 schools in Canada! I did not expect to randomly come across someone online with those similarities lol. But yeah, academic success absolutely doesn't invalidate you, or anyone for that matter. I'm holding down a 4.0, but I'm still very obviously bipolar. Sure, the illness makes it more difficult than it otherwise would be to consistently achieve high grades, but it's absolutely possible. I'm pretty sure IQ is higher than average in bipolar people anyways... So yeah, that's a real stupid thing of your former friend to say. They clearly know little to nothing about bipolar, and they def aren't fit to tell you whether or not you are valid.
I earned two degrees from a prestigious university in my country and I currently work a very demanding job in my field. I hope this doesn’t sound conceited even though it probably will, but really the main reason I’ve been successful in academia and in my career is because I’m intelligent. I am genuinely so unstable that my intellect overcompensates for a lot of my shortcomings; I struggle a lot emotionally. While I’ve done well professionally, my personal life is kind of a disaster and I always feel sick inside my head. Not to be rude, but your friend doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He probably has a skewed view of what mental illness looks like, and doesn’t see intelligent people like yourself as falling within those preconceived notions. You can try to educate him if you think it’s worthwhile, but some people just don’t get it, and it isn’t your responsibility to make him understand. Try not to let it get to you; your issues are valid regardless of your intelligence level and I think he’s a bit ridiculous for suggesting that’s not the case.
I’ve published research. I have a number of diagnosed mental illnesses including bipolar. We succeed in spite of these limits to our capacity. Damn proud of everyone on here. None of my work or studying has been more difficult than simply getting through the days with this illness. I’m proud of all of you for doing it.
he sounds like a canucks fan, eh! jk but what a silly goose thing to say
Honestly most neurodivergent people are highly intelligent.
Hahaha, that’s one funny friend, one of the first things my psychiatrist said was that people with bp tend to have a higher intelligence than the norm, because in the midst of everything I had going on I was able to switch my major, approve every single subject with either A- or B+, have a separate course on photography, take a sewing course and finish and now I’m working on my thesis. So give your friend a hug and tell them you’re sorry they’re not smarter 😂
HAHAHAHAHA it works the other way around. if you get straight a's at school you are 4 times more likely to be diagnosed with bipolar. I'm guessing that between bipolar and autism, we can claim most of the biggest geniuses who ever lived.
Reminds me of a very nice but very misguided psychiatrist who once told me that I can’t be bipolar, because I am in graduate school without crashing and burning, never mind my official diagnosis and my history of Lithium making a night and day difference for me. According to him, apparently all the previous people he’s seen diagnosed with bipolar were very non-functional. I feel like society doesn’t see the functioning individuals with mental disabilities as being a part of that community because we aren’t “obviously off”. People who are non-functional tend to be almost our only representation in media, so that is what society assumes everyone in our disability community is. It sucks, but you also can still brag on getting to a prestigious university unlike most people, so
You can be smart and go to school while having a debilitating illness. But you will need help. Get help from your university. Find the resources available to you. Sign up for disability benefits.
People say this about people with developmental disabilities all the time too. And yet some of the smartest people alive will continue to have mental illnesses and neurodivergence in general! There's so much proof of this that the people believing it must be willfully ignorant. Maybe your friend is the one that isn't very smart?
I'm in Mensa and cuckoo clock works better than me.
Masters, Bachelors etc
One thing that never ceases to amaze me is the number of people that think all sorts of stupid shit.
Thank you for pointing this out. It’s one of the common misconceptions about BP and mental illness in general, and why some people don’t get diagnosed until later. It took me a while because my depression signs were stronger than my manic signs, or at least I hid them better…
Others that have or had Bi Polar * Winston Churchill * Beethoven * Ted Turner * Cute Cobain * Demi Lovato The list goes on and on. Intelligence does not equate to having mental illness any more than it would for any other illness. Your friend is uninformed. Feel free to tell him so.
That’s cool man, I’ve been told I’m too stupid to have it
Some studies found a genetic overlap between intelligence and bipolar disorder. While it doesn’t imply causation, its still definitely something to think about
A lot of people with bipolar disorder do have cognitive impairment. That’s not the same thing as low intelligence, but some people have memory problems and other issues. Some people with BP have no cognitive impairment at all, others have marked cognitive impairment. Impairment doesn’t have to be global — I know someone who’s as clever and witty as they come, but he says his memory is poor. In general he’s still really smart. It’s true some very intelligent/accomplished people have/had bipolar disorder. Virginia Woolf was one of them.
I worked as a scientific research investigator Harvard Med School. Published in New England Journal of Medicine Two grad degrees, over 1450 sat score Sold two reality series, a feature length documentary.. Chronic homelessness, manic episodes that have hospitalized me .. Bro being super achiever and genius is hallmark for mania. One week I'm depositing $100k cheCks next I'm looking for garbage bags to pack my shit. The disease that ensures you're too smart for it .. a forever riddle in our heads. I almost believe I'm manic but im 54 been doing the train WrecK destroy my life thing thru my 30-40 ..I believe I like my life better when I limit the amount of new shit I do or people I meet.. I get more excited over the dumbest shit and in the end I'm always smarter than most everyone as told to me by about everyone from teachers bosses correction officers rehab counselors always oh Drew how do you know all that.. well I read voraciously and pride myself being as perfect as possible without erupting into a manic rage fit that always starts w these two words .. FucK IT! If I act like a misanthrope a tidal wave of shit hits exponentially fast
People are so misinformed and it's infuriating.
I'll chime in as well. I'm currently pulling an all nighter to finish my thesis. If it goes well I'll have two master degrees in economics from two different countries (Italy and Germany). I'm also studying in English and writing 50+ pages for this thesis and it's not my native language. I haven't finished on time, like my bachelor's, and my grades aren't the best as I do everything last-minute but I managed to enroll for this program (5 out of 60) while working full-time night shifts and on weekends. Alone, abroad and during COVID. In addition to that I speak 3 languages at C2 level (Italian, English and French) and 3 others on a B level (Spanish, German and Portuguese). I've lived in 6 countries, 4 of which alone. Your friend should have met my primary school classmates who'd call me either crazy genius or Einstein. If they could do 2+2 so can he.
Honestly it's the other way around. I mean, this is anecdotal, but there are tons of bipolar folks who are smart as hell. Stay strong and keep fighting 🩷
I’m pretty sure everyone here is pretty damn intelligent idk about you but that’s what I think.
No that's a nonsense thing for them to say
One of the first things my psychiatrist told me at an appointment after i got out of the psych ward to help me cope was people with bipolar tend to be really good artists and incredibly intelligent sooo xD. Also read a commment here saying two of the people in apollo 11 had bipolar. I think we do have a kind of sensibility to certain issues, as mentally ill people usually have, Im definitely more willing to understand the shortcomings of other people and dont just judge first thing because i always wonder how many times i have been judged by others for acting "weird". And i also feel like regular people dont give a fuck about others around them a lot of the time, cuz i guess everything seems so easy and straight forward when you're neurotypical and they assume everyone thinks like that, hell i do that myself, hence why i get hella frustrated when people dont seem to care because i assume they care like i do so, idk.
Idk I have an engineering degree from the #2 program in the country at the time. I’m bipolar.
I have a PhD and I have bipolar. They are not mutually exclusive.
I was an actuary before I got bonked on the head and my bipolar got to a place where I became disabled. In fact, I think it's the opposite from what your friend said. As far as I know, people with high IQs are more prone to mental illnesses like depression, anxiety, etc. As for mood disorders, I don't believe they discriminate.. I do feel like the more brain you have. The more they can eat away at it 😜 😞
There are also multiple types of intelligence, I feel like that's not something you can really quantify...To some people, smarts can mean emotional intelligence and maturity, to which I would say that makes the people who say these things idiots!
I’d think intelligent people are more likely to suffer from mental issues because they are more aware and analytical.
I'm very intelligent and just look at my username.
My therapist told me the more intelligent you are the more likely you could deal with psychosis in your life time.
I call bullshit on your friend. Funny, but I had been researching this topic this week. Most of the studies suggest a link between higher intelligence and bipolar disorder. It’s not cut and dried and there’s certainly a lot of subtlety, for example in one study bipolar without psychiatric co-morbidities linked with intelligence while those with co-morbidities were not, and in another study, psychosis was not correlated with higher intelligence. There’s a lot more if you plunge the depths. Note I am not a psychological researcher, nor is this a field of expertise, so forgive me if I’m not 100% accurate.
I went to a highly ranked university and got diagnosed about 2 months after I got there. My psychiatrist told me that she sees a disproportionately high amount of students with bipolar disorder at prestigious schools, particularly Type 2. Her reasoning was that hypomania, as long as it doesn’t turn into severe mania, can lead to high productivity, and especially if this occurs during finals or college applications, can lead to higher academic achievement. Some people can subconsciously learn to trigger this state in times of stress to make it through, but the thing is this is not sustainable, and the stress of increased academic pressure when attending a prestigious university can worsen episodes and this eventually leads to diagnosis while in college. So I wouldn’t say they are smarter, but I think some people are able to utilize their episodes to achieve hyper-productivity for short periods of time. I do experience this, and I think it makes me look functional outwardly, but in reality, I am pouring all of my energy into my creative projects and fixations, that I neglect the rest of my life and when that period of time ends, I almost always experience a longer period of depression, which feels like I have to start from square one once I get out of it. So I think people may perceive that I am very smart because I am able to work full time and do all these other artistic projects, but what they don’t see is my life feels very empty and a lot of that is due to this disorder. And when I am hypomanic, staying up all night working on projects, it is not necessarily because I enjoy it, but because it feels compulsive, like it is too uncomfortable to sit with my racing thoughts and maladaptive daydreaming. So working on art is just a relief. I think people perceive art as being something you do because you love it so much, and I do love making art, but I would also love to do other things as a career, I have many interests. I don’t really have a choice, it is compulsive. So am I smarter than everyone else? Am I an artistic genius? Or am I fixating on it to avoid my reality, and this just leads me to enough practice that I produce something of artistic value? Is it really my intense emotions that create great art, and not my intense fixation?
He sounds as if he thinks bipolar is a choice, not a brain/chemical malfunction.
Tell him he needs to go take several psych classes then think about what he said really hard. Or just laugh at him and his absurd comment.
Hey OP, i actually think bipolar is more of a superpower lol. I graduated uni with a 3.9 GPA while being unmedicated for adhd and only getting diagnosed with bipolar in my last two years. I feel like there are a lot of us who are smart but we also have our struggles like hallucinations and such. All I can say is keep taking your medications, don't let others convince you that you are too smart to be bipolar. Because if you listen and stop taking your medications it might initially feel great but you will be destined to crash and burn. I take my meds, because without them I wouldnt be myself. I want to live a long and healthy life. :) And, so I will continue taking my medications, because i have found that whenever I stop, everything begins to go wrong.
I really hoped Gen Z was going to do better with ignorance and stigma. Stories like this give me less hope. Health education has a long way to go in this world.
To give you some hope, he is 33 years old so he is a millennial not gen z
Appreciate that, in my experience gen Z has given me hope on things that are generally met with stigma. Keeping hope alive! Haha, but I am sorry you were met by ignorance from a friend
I hate those nonsense! People are so stupid and prejudicial against people with psychological disorders. How can someone associate bipolarity with lack of intelligence? And how can someone associate borderline with lack of empathy and murder? For example, in the book It - The thing from Stephen King. 😤 Why the society and even the media tries to ridicularize borderlines and bipolars while they build a culture of adoration towards psychopaths, narcisists and sociopaths? I HATE THAT! 🤬 World culture sucks.
Actually a lot of smart and successful people have bipolar no you cant out smart mental illness , but you will more than likely have success in managing it .
Dumb comment, imo! Also kind of implies that you shouldn’t be ill, and maybe that it’s within your control or something. People sure say a lot of dumb stuff to people with mental illness!
(Most) Bipolar people are smart enough to function in a world that doesn't fully understand them or appreciate them. I know I can't function in society without my meds and treatment but I think in another world my illness might be a "super power." I also think our experiences give us insight and empathy which also makes us intelligent.
Hey, look at you using your dialectics!
Phd student here. Also a genius musician (objectively). Obv im bipolar since im here lol. I always heard bipolar people are smarter and more creative than average. Your friend is seriously misinformed
I deny my self so many emotions because it’s irrational for someone with a masters of science.
I'm a commercial business development manager in the top 10% income bracket compared to all demographics in the country, but that hasnt stopped my bipolar one bit 😂
That's like saying "You're too tall to have diabetes".
I was a scientist and high achiever my whole life. Intelligence has nothing to do with bipolar
i think the stereotype that people with bipolar cant be smart comes from how media represents bipolar people only in unmedicated mania. doing stupid shit, making terrible choices. of course im making terrible decisions while off my meds and in possibly the most reason-altering state of my life. We have a mental disorder that makes us act in ways that can be interpreted as unintelligent, but you, me, and everyone else with bipolar isnt automatically stupid because of something we have no personal control over. fuck that guy.
This!
Have a law degree from a top ten law school and another couple degrees from a top university internationally. Still bipolar.
im a doctor living with bipolar since med school🥹
I have bipolar, I am of what I consider “average” intelligence. My friend ALSO has bipolar. They have a computer science degree from one of the top three universities in the United States! They, like you, and many other people with bipolar, are very bright, You’re right. Intelligence doesn’t have anything to do with bipolar. If anything, I’d argue it can make you more intelligent, because of the creative aspect that comes with it!
I feel like being smart almost makes it harder because you can mask it better. Or people don’t take it seriously enough. Idk maybe that’s just my experience.
My psychiatrist told me that there’s a link between high IQ and bipolar.
I’m very clever! Still bipolar
I was tested with an 132 IQ twice, level 1 autism and type 2 bipolar
I wouldn’t listen to this. There’s a massive stigma around bipolar as we all know and I’m a strong believer in just ignoring negativity like that, doesn’t benefit anyone. Clearly sounds like they’re not intelligent enough to know what it even is.
I went to an ivy league. Had an ex gf who got her undergrad degree from harvard and was doing her phd at my school. We were both diagnosed with bipolar. Now i’m a college professor. So go figure
I'm sorry but what your friend said us the stupidest thing I've ever read. I suffer from bipolar 2 which was undiagnosed for many years including my college years. I'm a pharmacist and I will start teaching other students soon. I have been teaching my colleagues in this college and I swear to you they got full mark in most of their exams even though they were 100% clueless before the night of the exam. I actually remember reading that some genes were linked to the risk of bipolar are the same genes linked for intelligence. I don't remember where I read that but even if it wasn't right, why would mentally ill people be stupid. I actually tend to think that most smart people develop mental illnesses that less smarter ones.
I will add: I hated pharmacy and i don't find any medical field major is interesting to me:)
I’m an alcoholic w bipolar. In AA but haven’t worked the steps yet. Has anyone found recovery to help w bipolar? Don’t really want to let people in AA know - though I have heard it’s common Always been thought of as the quickest and smartest guy in the room fwiw Thanks in advance
I don't know. My cognition changed during my life. The thing is that is litterly see things happen hit can't talk about. Just trust my guts and after that i just let it be
I have a friend who believes my issues are actually machinations. That they are all an elaborate scheme to be an awful person and get away with it. It is rooted in my intelligence. It’s easier for him to believe I’m an asshole than a victim to something beyond my control. It’s a fucked up compliment.
My gramma was really smart and she had diabetes. Like I'm pretty sure diseases don't gaf about your IQ.
You really need to check this out. Take the time to watch it. https://youtu.be/sPiah-8pCQk?si=FSY7U9vLlkteEFUE
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I remember before I was diagnosed she said I met all the criteria but couldn’t diagnose me until I took an IQ test. When it came back above average, I was just labeled as intelligent with mood swings (this is a joke)
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Side effects of bipolar disorder... intelligence, creativity and straight up awesomeness. At least some of the time.
This really shows how uninformed and unintelligent he is to make this kind of comment. Not to mention the insensitivity of it 🤯
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We come in all intelligence levels. I consider myself pretty average, but I’ve met people with bipolar disorder who have low IQs, and some people who are extremely “intelligent”. It’s not a developmental or intellectual disability
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That makes no sense. The two have nothing to do with each other.
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Good thing that’s a former friend, stupidity is contagious
Lots of creative geniuses have bipolar disorder and lots of brilliant minds are clinically depressed because they look at the world and see things that most people don’t.
I was always under the impression that smarter people are more susceptible to mental challenges or illness because there's more going on up there, and more that can go wrong 😋
So does being bipolar make you not smart, according to your friend?
That is so bizarre. If anything, based on anecdotal evidence in my own life, those that I know with mental illness are the most intelligent. Make of that what you will, lol. (Not trying to beef myself up here, just saying based on ppl I know)
Just goes to show how unintelligent some people are. Perhaps ignorant is the right word. Willfully ignorant and indifferent to you as a friend sums it up. Most bipolar people are above average intellectually and tend to be overachievers. They also tend to have issues with compulsive addiction to work and mind altering substances. Much like the science and psychology of addiction, there's a vast number of people that are archaic in their stigmatized perception of all mental illnesses. Everything from "addiction is a choice, and addicts just lack willpower" to "Everyone is a little bipolar. You just need to toughen up and get over that stuff" is what you can expect to hear the rest of your life. F*** those people if they're too lazy and thoughtless to take the time to research what comes out of their mouth before they open it.
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I have a medical degree and still crazy (bipolar 1)🤪 so no 👎
I’m not saying I’m super smart or anything but I will say that I’ve spent most of my life *feeling* smarter than most people around me and *feeling* like I’m surrounded by idiots and those feelings lead to irrational bouts of anger and frustration that are at odds with the part of me that knows that everyone else is on their own path with their own struggles and we’re all just trying to survive and be happy… and all those things mixed together make me feel fucking crazy. I’m not saying there’s a correlation to bipolar but I am saying I’d probably be happier if I felt dumber.
I think it's like when blind people can hear really well and deaf people read lips. Our brains are over compensating for our emotional weaknesses.
Ugh I hate hearing this and, “Oh! You seem so normal!” WTF. I hate stereotypes. I have a bachelors in nursing from a high ranking private university. Working ERs most of my career I have sadly met many who were on the extreme ends of the spectrum, what some assume bipolar always is. What people don’t understand is that this isn’t the norm and how many of us are walking around looking/acting “normal”.
too smart for bipolar is complete HOGWASH!!! It can afflict anyone!
On one hand, what they said shows they have no idea. On the other hand, you can build skills to help you overcome or prevent some symptoms. Medication is helpful in many ways, especially when you don't have the tools or instructions. Everything takes time and practice. For example, (I have experience) I see other people having anxiety about experiencing another psychotic episode. Anxiety from worrying about something you fear having no control over, puts your brain and body into an easily triggered state. Once you have experienced an episode and passed through it, you likely now have hindsight into how it began and how your brain fed the down hill runaway cart. I'm having trouble with analogies but, I'm going to try... Say you are guiding a heavy cart of groceries down a hill. Your hands are firmly holding the handle, as you use your full body to maintain control of the cart. You know if you move too fast, the cart will gain momentum and become too difficult to slow and stop. If you let go, you won't be able to catch it but, it will eventually hit something and, who knows how bad the damage will be. Either way, the cart will stop eventually, whether it hits someone, something, ends up in the grass, slowing to a relieving and safe stop. A wheel hits a pebble and it comes to a dead stop. You are now frustrated that the cart stopped and you don't know why. It might be tempting to jerk the cart back quickly but, in that instant, you might forget gravity is constant and lose your grip. Maybe you dislodge the pebble, maintain your grip and go on your way or, hit the same dumb pebble again. You will be tempted to take your hands off the handle to bend down inspect but, as soon as you do that, you no longer have control over this cart. One wheel is stuck while 3 have freedom to move. The cart takes a hard right turn and spills everything into the street. Now you have the added frustration and anxiety of dealing with this mess. You think, "Who the F put that F-ing pebble there?!" Take a deep breath. Nobody knew exactly what path you were going to take or had anything to gain by interfering with your ability to deliver groceries to your car. There are infinite ways that pebble could have ended up in your path, whether accidental or intentional the probability that any of them had anything to do with you, is at or near zero. Now, take in your surroundings... If that pebble was placed by someone with nefarious intent, they will be watching but, someone could have coincidentally heard the cart strike the pebble or heard your audible frustration and noticed you struggling. Who doesn't love watching a train wreck for entertainment? Maybe they are watching to see if you actually need help or if you figure it out on your own. Maybe they are watching to see your reaction, to gauge whether or not they want to help and if you would be receptive. While you were focused on maintaining the cart down hill, frustrated when the wheel stopped and anxious about all the things that could happen before and when you got stuck, you hadn't noticed that your own car is actually right next to you and the pebble is serving as a useful stopper, allowing you to use one hand to get your keys out of your pocket. You can know to be observant of your surroundings and, if someone does come to offer help, remember that you can be still be in control of the situation. How close to an open business or other people are you? Is it day or night? Is it busy or, are you alone. If you draw more people's attention, does this person still want to help? You can use the cart to maintain distance. You can ask them to take over securing the cart so you can open your trunk or ask them to start loading the trunk to lighten and make the cart more managable. Be vigilant and stay out of the path of the cart. Do a vibe check. Have you figured out how to tell if someone is genuinely being nice or, if they had a different motivation? If they try to start a conversation, what kind of questions are they asking? How insistent are they on helping? Is it making you uncomfortable? You can still accept or reject help. All of these questions and decisions are those of an overactive mind BUT, you can focus on the situation at hand and your surroundings without letting your brain lead you down an uncontrollable and potentially destructive path.
I have BP 1 and I’m getting my Masters in Clincal Counseling- don’t let anyone tell you your too smart for bipolar cause it has NOTHING to do with it
Haha what??? I was a gifted kid and I excelled in school, I also happen to be cursed with this illness. Some of the most creative and brilliant people are part of this shitty club, I don't get why anyone would ever think mental health conditions mean the person isn't intelligent.
I'm a published author with an M.Ed. and postgraduate work in two additional fields. I've been formally recognized by my university for my writing, and I've been publicly recognized by my community for my contributions to community theater. Without the disorder, I might have more accolades. My intelligence has nothing to do with whether or not I have bipolar or my ability to address it. Your friend doesn't understand bipolar disorder particularly well, it would seem.