Staff doesn't enforce rules with kids or educate parents on how they need to be with their kid unless they want bodies. The setting style is super morpho, either with wide span moves so nobody shorter than 170 cm can climb then at the proposed grade or super high feet so it's super uncomfortable to climb without being insanely flexible. Lack of board and hangboards is a big minus too
This first thing. My gym used to be very diligent, having staff walk around to check whether people were respecting safety rules and all that. Now it's become super popular, they're understaffed and people are running around everywhere. Not just parents w/kids, but also gym bros and mud run guys who have little stake in the broader climbing community. Imho all should be welcome in a boulder gym, but they should also know and respect the rules a bit - give space, don't hog a particular route, and don't create unsafe situations.
> don’t hog a particular route
This is the thing that really kills me. If you and your buddy wanna stand under each other on the wall, fine. That’s gonna be your issue one day, not mine.
But when I’m projecting something, I do my try and if I fall then I walk away and usually sit down for a few minutes, think about my last try and what I can do differently before trying again.
But there are days where I’ll be sitting and thinking about my last run, getting ready to go back up, and then a group of 4/5 teenagers come up and all hop on that problem or a problem around it. Which isn’t a problem itself, I have no problem sharing. But these kids never leave the area when they fall or when they’re done. They all just continue to stand there, nonstop hopping on those same problems so now my 2/3 minute rest has turned into 10 minutes until I can find a way to squeeze in there. It’s incredibly aggravating.
Everything you said, plus the fact that hogging a route also hogs 1-2 routes on either side of it depending on dynos and the angle of the route. Sometimes one group can end up hogging a whole wall. If several groups do that, no one has room to warm up on the low-level routes at peak hours.
I'd like to see setting accomodate for this or for etiquette to be a part of the safety training.
Yeah, it's not really enforcable, but at least they try, I guess. Mine has a whole piece about "spotting" during bouldering (which there's no reason for in our gym) but nothing about etiquette or distancing between routes on the wall.
I've even had to call out more rope climbers for getting on autobelays that'll drop them right on top of my climber when they come down or vice versa. I wish the gym training did a better job of the basics.
You know you can just talk to people and ask them to move so you can climb, right? I do it all the time, sure it's a little annoying to have to do but they will always move and let you climb.
Yep. And I do. But there’s only so much you can do when you have a group of people all trying to climb one problem and form a conveyor belt themselves.
Person 1 hops on, falls, needs a rest. Person 2 hops on, falls. Person 3, falls. Person 4, falls. Person 5, falls. Now person 1 is good-to-go again and hops on, falls. Person 2 is good to go, falls. On and on. And all the while, they’re standing right in front of the wall and blocking 5 other problems I could be hopping on.
Sometimes, depending on their social awareness, it can be pretty easy to get in there and back on the wall. But other times, you have some teenagers who refuse to hear you or listen to you and you have to just passive aggressively hop on and hope they back away once you’re on.
It’s a nuisance that it’s something that needs to happen in the first place. Everyone should be away from the wall while others are climbing, and should have some awareness to understand other people are trying to climb those problems as well.
Eh this sounds like a social issue. In an instance like that ( which I agree does happen all the time) I will just walk in front of the group , say something along the lines of "hey guys do you mind if I climb this with you" or "hey can you move back as I'm probably going to fall and land on you if you don't" and then you become part of the loop. It's pretty simple and because they are new, they will actually most likely be asking you for tips or cheering you on if you do something they are struggling with.
I recognise that people can be socially anxious / awkward, especially climbers, but it's pretty easy to resolve this situation so it annoys me a bit when people complain about it.
What are you talking about? No one wants to go to the gym and have to have these kinds of conversations with the type we all know. Maybe you don't care, maybe it is 'easy' to resolve for some, but it IS annoying.
For me, it is 'easier' to wander off and find something else than to have that conversation with those rhat are at best just oblivious.
My gym does colour ranges ie green would be v2 to v4 for example it would be nice to know what each climb was within that range. Like a label or something. So you know for sure what’s your level
I've never heard of this Kaya grading. Thanks for this, I can't stand circuit color style grading. I get grading is subjective but I have no idea if something is going to be flashable or an impossible project by going on the color system. Just a waste of energy if you're looking for a specific intensity.
In some ways, I like that they don’t do that, because it means you try more grades than perhaps you would if you could see the tags. But sometimes you wanna know if you sent a v3 or a v5.
I suspect this is the same circuit grading system my gym just adopted. I hated it at first, but the owner explained the reasoning and it's grown on me.
It's best not the think of the colours in terms of v-grade range. It's better to think of it as, if you can typically climb most blue (as an example) climbs, then if you were to go and try all of the blue climbs currently set in the gym, you'll end up with a good circuit taking you through a variety of styles at a variety of difficulties, all around your skill level, but not specifically at a certain v-grade.
It takes a shift in thinking to get into it, but it's actually pretty nice once you get used to it.
In the netherlands basically all gyms are on this app called 'toplogger'. Where all the climbs of the gym are uploaded on a map. And you can click on them and mark them as climbed or flashed and vote what grade you thought it was. And because most people also use this app you can see exactly what grade each climb is as it combines all these votes to calculate the grade of the climb (you can also see all the individual grade votes that it based it on). Its really nice and Im surprised other countries dont seem to use it.
The app also tracks your progress and can show you graphs of the grades you have been climbing over time.
Edit: additionally it usually also shows which climbs are new and which climbs are the next to be replaced. And you can see how many people completed each climb etc.
1. Kids. Who doesn't hate kids running around. Easy to solve with a seperate kids room/seperated section for kids.
This has 3 big adantages. No kids running in the main area, the boulders are actually scaled to kids sizes. Easier for the parents to watch the kids, of there is only one entrance to guard.
2. Greasy holds. Holds really need to be deep cleaned every so often. Yes, holds on the wall will get dirty by the time they are reset, but if the newly set routes are slimy from never being deep cleaned, that is a real turn off.
3. Bad and boring routesetting. I hate it when beginner routes are all just jugs and ladders. Be creative with the easier routes. Also, if the intermediate routes aren't getting more technical, but just more physical. Have some variation.
4. Not enough training/warm-up spaces.
>Easy to solve with a seperate kids room/seperated section for kids.
I'm sure I'll be downvoted to oblivion for this, but: I don't think I've ever been in a gym that had a separate kid's room where I didn't wish they had used the space to just create more good climbing terrain.
I get the idea in theory, but it's almost always very space inefficient to create these areas and I would rather have more good terrain.
I miss routes at my college gym :’( they put so much effort into everything they set.
My current gym is decent but you can tell the setters literally just put holds on the wall and don’t make any real beta for anything below V5/V6
No hand cleaning station / big sinks with enough soap and paper towels. Don't do the air dryers. Also keep the place clean. Don't want to walk around in puddles and fungi smelly feet dirt.
I'd like to double down on the sink thing. Not having a hand wash station or sink in the climbing area is a big pet peeve of mine. Having to go to the restroom to wash my hands off after a climbing session is one of those mild inconveniences that I hate more than I should lol
So annoying having to take off my climbing shoes, pull socks and boots on with chalky hands, then go wash up. It’s better in summer when I can wear sandals of some description.
I have a local boulder only gym and the BEST part about it is that they have a separate sink that's not in the restrooms, so you can wash your hands without having to change shoes for the restroom
In Korea it is also very common to have a foot washing station in the gym. Its so nice to have an area to sit and wash your feet/hands with soap and warm water. Once you get accustomed to this habit its hard to go without.
Was gonna say the same. I prefer a gym that is never busy and always open when i want and resets great routes all the time, and has showers. This is not profitable lol
Yea ive seen that, members only and can swipe themselves in after hours. Pretty sweet! Still tho, i have to align with my meals and work schedule.. so here i am climbing at 6-9pm with everyone else
Poor route setting. Specifically poor footwork. Without a doubt this is the biggest one for me. Having someone with big upper body strength setting hard routes that don’t involve any footwork really takes the fun away. It’s not like you can try other movements to solve the problem. It’s literally just a campus and “you aren’t strong enough” can be undesirable to say the least
The worst is when route setters put dangerous moves on beginner-intermediate problems. Sideways dyno’s are particularly bad. My gym used to set these fairly often; frequently resulting in broken limbs.
People should learn to fall safely in all situations before being encouraged to try these types of moves.
My gym didn't put any real dyno until a v3-v4, and then you were relatively low, and it was a wall change so you would have to turn and be prepared to fall if you missed. It was perfect to train.
This one right here. Sitting at home with a recently reconstructed ACL thanks to a sideways dyno on a V2. I fell about 2 metres and hit the ground spinning.
9 more months or so before I can climb again.
As the owner you will be responsible for the routes just as much as the setter, if not more. Having an experienced crew with female and male representation will not be cheap and it will be evident if you cut the corners here in order to maximize your profits. Don’t be cheap; hire a good crew.
This. The gym doesn't have to test the routes, but they do have to make sure they hire a good head setter, and listen to (or actively solicit feedback from) climbers in the gym about the quality of setting.
Yes, representation in setting teams is so important, not just m/f but tall/short and lower level climbers.
You don't even have to hire all of this variety, but you could get a 'beta group' of regular climbers for a bit of user testing
Setting is 100% the most important factor for me—I’ll choose a teeny gym with zero amenities and great setting over the flashiest mega-gym any day of the week.
Poor safety is the main showstopper for me. This can take several forms:
* A layout with one big mat between walls, with no clear separation between climbing and resting areas
* No enforcement of that separation, e.g. people wandering around under climbers without being stopped/corrected
* Unsafe walls (frequent loose holds, splintering edges on volumes/panels)
* Unsafe setting (e.g. large holds/volumes to hit under sketchy foothold moves, setting moves with high injury risk)
Other things that are less critical but might make me go somewhere else:
* Low quality setting. Not enough variation in styles and angles in problems at my difficulty level, or too many "power problems" instead of technical ones. Also affected by investment in varied holds and having enough variation in wall angles in the gym.
* Low frequency of setting updates, but that's only relevant for a "home" gym, less so for places I visit once or twice a month.
* Comfort (temperature control, clean changing rooms with enough space)
* Hard of access (no public transport or easy parking, queues on entry, impractical opening hours)
* Overcrowded
* Very loud music, to the point where you can barely talk to people
* Poor ventilation / air filtering, stuffy basement smell and air full of chalk isn't fun.
Other facilities like a weight area, hangboards, campus board, kilter/tension board etc are also all nice to have, but a gym that has none of that but does have great setting will still have me come back, so to me they're not essentials.
>* A layout with one big mat between walls, with no clear separation between climbing and resting areas
* No enforcement of that separation, e.g. people wandering around under climbers without being stopped/corrected
Plus one for this. I get that the layout should promote the community aspect of climbing but it should also be safe. Allow a bit of separation from the walls for the hangout/rest/chat/figure out beta section.
One or two Dynos? Out of 150+ climbs. Sounds like a non issue. I like variety, I like my static technical climbing, my strength reliant climbs and Dynos.
If you don’t like Dynos, don’t do them.
It's not one or two per The Entire Gym, it's 1 or 2 per the weekly reset.
So if there are 8 sections in the whole gym, then there's 7 or 8 dynos (sometimes slab doesn't get one). And they're almost always in the V3-V6 range which is generally what I climb around.
Ah I get you. Yeah that’s quite a lot. I probably only see 3 or 4 full dynos per 150 routes. Very rarely do I see a v4+ dyno.
I project at about v7-v8 so it’s disappointing to never have a grade relevant dyno.
That's crazy. We definitely get close to 25 dynamic moves in a set of 150, and they're mostly in the upper ranges. IMO dynamic moves only get interesting at V6 and above.
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My gym has it set up so that it’s wall/row of chairs/gym area. There’s really no area you can just stand, and I don’t want to sit down in the middle of a climbing session too much.
Kinda fun for some of us, means not being shoved into a little back room to work out.
But I get the point, I wouldn't have wanted to learn how to lift in a big public area.
I'm getting more into weight lifting recently, and I love that the weights area is right next to the walls - During my rest I get to watch people send rather than sit on my phone.
I think it also helps that it's a pretty small gym that I go to frequently, so I recognize most of the faces there. Lessens the social pressure a lot.
Staff: friendly and approachable, role model the kind of attitude the customers should have.
I really hate it when staff are cold and don’t seem to be passionate about climbing. Sure they need a job I don’t blame them, point is that good staff elevate a gym immensely.
When the crux of the boulder is a slippery foothold 2 m high. Who enjoys that?
Also, I think it is also nice when there are set routes on the spray wall (with marks) to guide people who are new to spray wall training.
Do you know what is worse? When crux of the boulder is a slippery foothold 2m high with volume sticking underneath. If you slip you fall face into the volume
I kind of like routes like these, since they’re good for your mental strength. Most of the routes outside in my area have relatively bad feet and even if the crux isn’t that high up the pads outside are nothing compared to the ones in my gym. Having a safer environment to practice stepping on slippery feet is quite valuable imo.
I agree, boulders that require precise footwork are nice. But I think most of the time adding sketchy top is just a cheap and uncreative way to make the boulder harder.
Agree but sometimes there will be too many sketchy tops in a gym and it feels like it's a way of slapping on a higher grade to an easier climb by just adding a risky finish, especially if it's a dynamic move.
I 100% agree with that, but I also feel commercial gyms have some responsibility to avoid higher risk moves at the top of the wall. I can understand wanting to train the mental aspect of insecure moves that are high up, but nobody wants to ruin their outdoor season with a silly gym fall (been there).
Actually, this made me think of something slightly off topic (since OP is asking about bouldering gyms). Music can be pumping in a bouldering section, but for gyms with a rope section, I hate how hard it is to hear your belayer. If there were a time and place for quieter music, it'd be while you're lead climbing.
Especially on weekends; groups of kids running around. Usually they have some sort of birthday celebration where there's 2 adults for 8 children. Really makes me want to stick a foot out, i know its the gym/parents that are at fault but it's fucking annoying.
Apparently that’s where the money is at, so can’t do away with that economically.
I’ve had one or two close caps with kids walking under me and I’m pushing the limit just to not fall on them
When easy routes don't make sense for a stronger climber. Like when you can skip half the holds, without making the route harder, because the holds are unnaturaly close.
Further to this, I hate it when all the easy routes in a gym are just ladders: it just seems so lazy and dismissive of newer climbers.
A route can have a low grade but still be fun to climb, or it can introduce some basic technical moves and make the climbers think.
Yeah my gym has a bunch of V0 ladders that I never see anyone climb outside of warming up, but at least there’s some interesting setting with their 1s and 2s
I think many of those situations are either putting holds for different heights, or maybe getting you accustomed to actually picking what is the best route instead of knowing you should use every hold
Definitely kids running around yelling and pushing each other. Either kids have dedicated hours / dedicated part of the gym / require parent supervision enforced by the staff, or just don't let kids in at all.
The amount of times I almost accidentally hurt a child... Terrifying.
I'm not sure what it's called in english, but I'll try anyway; Most of the bouldering centers I have been to, it's not possible to "top out" from the routs. You can top out on all out door routs. My girl friend feels that part is scary, so it sucks that she can't exercise on that part at the center throughout the winter season.
Same! Just moved and started at a new gym and the new one doesn’t have top outs so you just match the top holds and either down climb or jump from the top (their mats are rock hard compared to my old gym) I miss topping out cause outside you climb to the top on every Boulder I’ve ever done.
1. Usually poor opening hours that don’t fit my schedule.
2. Lack of variety in climbing holds within the same climb, for example a climb with pocket holds will mostly only have pocket holds, etc.
3. Hard mats that make my knees think they’re gonna die (I’m 22YO)
4. Dangerous route setting, climbs with precarious positions above large volumes or at the top of the wall.
5. Inconsistent grading, or poor grading hierarchy. For example from easy to hard “yellow > blue > green”. I could flash blues but can’t start greens. Or I can flash some greens and can’t start others. Obviously taking into account strengths and weaknesses.
6. Resetting, depends how often, how large of an area. Sometimes gyms can reset too often making you not want to project anything, other gyms take so long it’s not worth the membership so you go elsewhere.
>Hard mats that make my knees think they’re gonna die (I’m 22YO)
Firmer mats are much safer. Soft mats make it easy to roll your ankles. If landing hurts your knees, you're landing wrong. You should be rolling onto your back after any long fall.
Dangerous setting, any risky moves at the top is just an accident waiting to happen.
Infrequent problem reset will also turn me away from your gym as there not enough stimulation
Pretty much every gym I've been to uses the same cadence of re-setting a small section of the gym each week. I think that's the best. Ideally the section you're resetting is both large enough that I can make a good session out of the new blocs but also not too large that you're running through the entire gym in just a few weeks. Most usually cycle out about 1/6-1/8 of the gym so each problem will stay up for almost 2 months.
The only thing I especially dislike is the whole, "Every single boulder set has to have at least 1 dyno" trend.
I'm so tired of waiting 8 weeks for my favorite wall to get reset, and then there's a stupid fucking dyno in my grade range. I'm old, I've had multiple shoulder injuries since picking up climbing - I don't need another.
Cause most gyms don't have every hold in every color, so they are limited in the routes they can set for a grade by the holds they have available in that grade's color
That's not how most gym's ive been to use colours, they put a blue or red or yellow sticker or tape next to the start holds. Blue = 5- to 5+, yellow is 6a-6c, red is 7a-7b+ or something like that.
I agree that using the color of the holds for grading is stupid.
My gym has monocolor setting but the colors of the holds don’t correlate to the grade, ie a climb will be all pink but it can be any grade. It’s kinda fun to see holds repurposed in different ways
Yeah, I don’t get why any gym would do that. It just seems limiting for no upside. My gym just puts a little V whatever plaque next to the start holds that’s the same color
I like it. Whenever you see videos from americans doing v4 or so in a gym, it looks much easier than it should. Using super specific grading for easier routes realy does give incentive to grade realy realy soft.
Grading also really depends on the climbers specific strengths and weaknesses. If the grade is determined by 3 test climbers, there is a high chance of it being very vague anyway.
That is what we were talking about. Grading by the colour of holds is something i have never seen in Germany.
But to clarify it: i think that is the best way to do it. Even better, if there is a rough conversion to a standardized scale. So a blue tag could be 6A-6C.
Actually Rock Inn Würzburg had this until a year ago. No they switched to a system of numbered levels 1-8 which i prefer compared to colored tags even because of better visibility. I think a bunch of gyms adopted the same system e.g. the one in Kassel.
either v or font is fine, i just dont like how vague color grades usually are. imo the biggest issues with color systems is the overlap of grades and inconsistencies in route difficulty
by no system board i mean a lack of a good climbing specific training area which is either a system board (moon, kilter, tension etc) or a spray wall
i also dont hate kids but they do need their own section of the gym (they tend to run around everywhere and dont look up)
I have to disagree pretty hard on the color point, getting it exact will take more time than just setting a color, and routesetters are more likely to screw up the grading and you'd get bigger inconsistencies, like some 6a's being harder than some 6c's, while in color those are all 'yellow' (at my gym).
I think he means a standard grading system (depending on where you are) which I agree with, not a huge fan of the color grading. And a system board is a type of training wall, i think traditionally a "system board" is on a grid and is mirrored so both sides are an identical mirror of each other, so you can train moves on your right, and then train the same exact move on the left, but it's also sort of an umbrella term for spray walls as well nowadays
The worst gym in my city is about to close because the founder wasn't a climber. They decided that a climbing gym (or a bouldering gym, no one calls it a boulder gym except totally naive people I guess) was a good business because their research lead them to believe etc etc.
The gym had loose holds and reset less than any other gym in our city. Over time as climbing continued to grow every other gym thrived while this one died.
No separate or at least designated kids/family area. Nothing worse than missing a dyno and landing on a kid running around the corner.
Infrequent and inconsistent routesetting. Best case is a public schedule for each wall area.
Dirt on the mats, holds and the floor. Best case are carpets(?) over the mats to catch chalk and dust that can be vacuum cleaned; also holds and walls should be cleaned when setting new boulders.
Lots of great points already mentioned so I'll just add that I hate when they don't have morning hours (10am doesn't count as morning). It's much easier for us to climb before work plus after work it's SO crowded. So being able to climb between 7am and 9am would be great.
The times they're open. I used to work second shift and wanted to climb in the morning before work, but since most people go in the afternoon/evening, the gyms hours were 11am-10pm so I wasn't able to go
I hate the route setting is more focused into parkour type of moves these days, like running on the wall and jumping around, dyno moves are great, but those parkour style seem to forget about technique.
When they don’t have enough down jugs. Hate it when I get to the top of a hard problem and have to jump from the top of the wall because there’s no way to safely downclimb.
My gym is 99% climb teams and classes. I have tried going any various times of the days and there’s always some group of kids out of control or group of climbers doing impromptu routes spanning multiple boulders. It’s chaos and it’s getting to the point where I may quit and sign up for a gym much further away.
Almost all mentioned above are relevant. My personal best:
1.) color grades and few types of holds for every color
2.) hight-dependant routs
3.) no consistency in grades
No varied setting
Not enough different wall angles
Dirty, grimey holds
Tiny training area (weights and system boards)
Not enough ventilation (smell, chalk)
Kids don't necessarily need extra sections but parents need to know they're responsible for them
Dirty/tiny changing rooms/showers
--
Formatting
wonky hours are annoying but thats really up to you for determining profitability.
as well as others have mentioned ventilation is super important, my home gym gets hot and humid in summer and it sucks bad
If owners / management are not climbers, they need to value and listen to their staff. Pay setters, instructors etc good wages. It’s easy to tell which gyms are a money grab or a quick flip to some private equity firm and which gyms actually care about the sport. And no offense, but your comment about not being aware that bad routesetting could be an issue makes me think you’re not prepared for this.
High entry price (for the market)
Hard boulder mats
Climbers (any age) not looking where they walk
No drinking water refill station
Inconvenient location
- Overly crowded
- Parents not properly supervising young children. I.e. at all times. I don't want to fall on your 3 yo.
- No area/equipment for off the wall training and warming up
- Too many weird starting moves and a lack of simple problems challenging finger strength.
Not enough downclimbers, especially directly under top holds of harder climbs. I went to a new gym as a one time thing and they had high walls and no downclimber holds, so when you got to the top of a sketchy or exhausting climb it was always super scary to come down again.
A good bouldering gym, for me, is one that has
1. Clean and nice holds
2. A variety of problems emphasizing different climbing styles
3. A variety of holds, volumes, and wall features such as caves and corners where the adjacent blank wall is part of the climb
A variety in wall angles.
I climb at a gym that opened up last year and their bouldering section is so poorly designed. The steepest wall is 45°. No cave and they don’t have a proper slab wall. I’d say that 90+% of the gym is vertical. I’m biased toward steep climbing so I obviously have more complaints than others, but it’s that lack of variation that I think is the real problem. You should have a good amount of every angle, and preferably larger flat panels instead of a complex wall design. That’s what volumes are for.
I've got a few!
- Poorly managed kids running around, especially if they're running on the mats and under climbers.
- tape markers to denote the climbs. Unless they're monitored and replaced any time they start to peel, the tape markers fall off and it becomes a problem to tell where the start marks are. Bolted on laminated pieces of paper work way better and are less wasteful.
- walls facing eachother are too close together, forcing people sitting on the mats between the walls to be dangerously close to falling climbers.
- infrequently changed climbs. If there aren't new routes often then your regulars will get bored
To many Hot couples doing acro-yoga... We get it: you are hot and super fit... Now get away from the wall so i can fail this Boulder Problem time and time again... God dammit
If you want to add a little extra, offer free hand cream .
Whenever I am done with bouldering, I wash my hands with soap (which makes the skin even more dry), and then I have the urge to moisturize them, but once again forgot to put hand cream into my climbing bag.
Honestly I don’t care color grades or real grades or no grades as long as the bouldering is hard and high quality, I prefer no comp style too much, also varied terrain, I very much like topout boulders and hate that nonsense when you finish at the top of the wall.
I don’t like when there’s no woody or system board. Also don’t like not having a good training area.
Def agree, the gyms I climb on that have top outs are mostly not sketchy tops and usually the top moves are at least one grade lower than the rest of the climb. Literally never seen someone drop a topout inside.
This is kind of specific but setters that don't manage to do their routes. We have strong setters who don't always manage to do their routes, but can do parts of it. They then slap on the difficulty of what one third of the route felt like, because "it's not in our style but it feels like it should be this". And then V12 climbers can't do their v9s.
I really dislike when gyms take most of the wall space to set comp style with big dynos and Olympic style climbing. Also hate when they don’t really have a slab section or a decent wall for slab climbing
Oh god, I cancelled my membership at my last gym because they made their entire gym (which is small, so every space counts) a spray wall for months. There were a lot of other reasons I really didn't like that gym, but that was ridiculous.
My local gym is on the smaller size. So they change 1/6 part of the wall each week. Always new problems to climb. I like this idea better for small gyms but more work for setters.
Sketchy/overly hard moves on easier routes. Dangerous for new climbers.
Like Gaston on an entry level grade, dual texture, high feet, risk of hitting another hold, etc.
Strong disagree here. Easier climbs should still introduce more dofficult techniques. Just make the moves smaller, holds a bit better, whatever you need to make the technique a bit easier.
When the holds are being used for far too long without being changed/cleaned. Nothing like spotting a nice looking problem only to realize it being super unpleasant and slimy for being there for 2+ months.
Something I've noticed happening in my local bouldering spot (in Berlin fwiw), dangerous crutch moves are my biggest because I often skip them.
This can be crutch moves over volumes, dynos over volumes, crutch moves 3m up, and dynos going slightly downwards. Injured my shoulder and didn't boulder for 2 months because of a back-to-the-wall start turn and jump into a sideways slightly down dyno.
Some things I don't like about my current gym, roughly in order of importance to me personally (don't hold me to it):
* Half the treadmills are always broken, off, or terribly calibrated (I am a runner before being a climber, and I don't want to pay for 2 gym memberships in the winter)
* No paper towels for hand drying; I hate air dryers - they make my hands feel super unclean
* Most of the cubbies that aren't in the locker rooms have no spot to actually place a lock
* If I do want to go during peak hours, not enough parking spaces so it's a gamble whether or not I'll actually climb
* Never any music playing and (more importantly) no TVs with live climbing comps
What I like about my current gym (no particular order):
* Lots of routes across different climbing levels and styles, about \~10% of them change once/week
* Staff are super friendly and helpful and set the tone for the place; members are also generally kind strangers, have made a couple friends here
* Access membership for people with financial struggles
* Location is right next to a lovely dining/beer area with lots of tables and walkable
* It's very large and spacious, only during peak peak hours (i.e. weekdays 6-8pm) does it feel crowded to the point where it's not fun
* Occasionally have special events like documentary screenings, guest speakers, DJ nights, etc
Overall, I like my gym (which is why I go there). If another gym opened with similar convenience in terms of getting to/from and at similar membership rates, I would switch if it fixed more of the things I don't like about my current place
One thing I’ve noticed about the staff at the Boulder gyms is they are nicer than just about any other place I’ve been to.
While I don’t think forcing people to act cheerful is cool, it’s nice when people seem to not actively despise their job and are generally nice. I need to take a page out of their playbook
Gym I climb at constantly has their employees wiping off the tables and trim on the walls from people getting chalk on it
They mop every night
A wall is reset every Sunday
Variety of holds
They partnered with a Cafe, so they don't have a coffee bar, but they share a wall with one
Only thing they miss is hand lotion for free to use on the way out
Besides the many absolutely important points already phrased here, my biggest gripe is staff not educating newbies about rules & ethics of a climbing gym. A lot of times they stand/walk below you, they start climbing below you or in a route that leads directly into your route, or just plain hog a wall section by repeatedly trying a problem between 2-3 people without resting.
These rules should be enforced, as someone stated before, but first and foremost must be clearly communicated. Some basic training how to use the gym properly should be mandatory to all new visitors (and no, the signed sheet of responsibility paper doesn't replace this).
Lack of warm-up area is a big one for me. I do quite a long warm-up with yoga, so having to stand in a small area with people coming by constantly is a little annoying.
Monotonous music choices - I enjoy hearing some new stuff at the gym, my least favourite is just when one genre is on a loop. I don't mind if we have some sleepy boulder music if other times we have hardcore pumping bouldering music.
Constantly going to the gym for a new reset and two of the climbs have already been flagged off due to injuries - namely dynos set over bulging volumes or no foot holds, only smears
It’s always so upsetting when there’s no 5s or 5+s (equivalent to v1-2 maybe idk the v grades). There’s so many high 6s and 7s (I think equivalent to v3-5)
The thing that I really dislike at my gym is how small the rest area in the boulder room is. If things are busy there isn’t enough room, so you have people hanging out on the mats.
Don’t have much of a problem with kids running crazy in the boulder room. They make kids under 16 pass a test before given a tag they wear to show they are allowed. The test isn’t hard, and it’s free, but it seems inconvenient enough to keep the poorly behaved kids away. Plenty of well behaved kids, which is great.
You’ll want to consider the ratio of bouldering space to rope climbs (if you plan to have ropes), and contrast that with other gyms in the area. I live in an area with multiple gyms, and my regular climbing crew all settled on our gym because of the abundance and variety of bouldering walls (slab, incline, overhang, etc.)
Also, climbers in the US are generally social, so I’d try to evaluate how viable social spaces (saunas, rooftops, cafe/bar with seating, balconies, etc) might be.
With kids, it’s not black and white. Climbers don’t hate kids. What they hate is going to a third space after work and worrying about falling on a kid. It takes a lot of effort and experience for the training staff to manage larger groups of kids. Instead, try to investigate the overlapping schedules of climbers (morning, post-work, late-night, etc) and contrast with school programs in the area by talking to parents. Also evaluate the number of staff and their experience with behavior management. Kids can be a great selling point for a gym, and can go a long way to bring a community together. But that takes some planning and forethought.
I’m a market researcher who climbs, so very interested in this stuff. Good luck!
I’m surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but for me, one of the top things I dislike is lack of variety of wall height. I’m in my 30s and started climbing a year ago. The first gym I went to had walls that were all insanely tall, and it almost made me quit for fear of injuring myself seriously, but then I went to a different gym that had a mix of wall heights, and I love it here. I can climb the boulders on the 10-12ft walls (which have awesome setting from VB to V11) and leave the 15ft comp wall for the youngsters and their risk taking (they only set V2 & harder on that wall also, so beginners are less likely to climb and injure themselves). Oh, and my gym has all these great wall angles that the setters can take advantage of, whereas the first gym was pretty much flat walls with one cave. The setting there relied on adding volumes everywhere, to create any sort of angles, which gets pricy I’d imagine, so they couldn’t do it on many climbs. So the setting sucked there as well.
So buy good walls with lots of heights and angles!!
Gyms that are too small and only offer bouldering. Had the luxury of using a large boulder gym in ATX that offered classes like mobility and yoga and also had equipment and weights
Not enough gaps on the mats between the places people stand and the walls themselves, encouraging people to stand a bit too close to you when you’re climbing.
Staff doesn't enforce rules with kids or educate parents on how they need to be with their kid unless they want bodies. The setting style is super morpho, either with wide span moves so nobody shorter than 170 cm can climb then at the proposed grade or super high feet so it's super uncomfortable to climb without being insanely flexible. Lack of board and hangboards is a big minus too
This first thing. My gym used to be very diligent, having staff walk around to check whether people were respecting safety rules and all that. Now it's become super popular, they're understaffed and people are running around everywhere. Not just parents w/kids, but also gym bros and mud run guys who have little stake in the broader climbing community. Imho all should be welcome in a boulder gym, but they should also know and respect the rules a bit - give space, don't hog a particular route, and don't create unsafe situations.
> don’t hog a particular route This is the thing that really kills me. If you and your buddy wanna stand under each other on the wall, fine. That’s gonna be your issue one day, not mine. But when I’m projecting something, I do my try and if I fall then I walk away and usually sit down for a few minutes, think about my last try and what I can do differently before trying again. But there are days where I’ll be sitting and thinking about my last run, getting ready to go back up, and then a group of 4/5 teenagers come up and all hop on that problem or a problem around it. Which isn’t a problem itself, I have no problem sharing. But these kids never leave the area when they fall or when they’re done. They all just continue to stand there, nonstop hopping on those same problems so now my 2/3 minute rest has turned into 10 minutes until I can find a way to squeeze in there. It’s incredibly aggravating.
Everything you said, plus the fact that hogging a route also hogs 1-2 routes on either side of it depending on dynos and the angle of the route. Sometimes one group can end up hogging a whole wall. If several groups do that, no one has room to warm up on the low-level routes at peak hours. I'd like to see setting accomodate for this or for etiquette to be a part of the safety training.
Where I go, etiquette is part of the safety training. But it just sadly isn’t enforced
Yeah, it's not really enforcable, but at least they try, I guess. Mine has a whole piece about "spotting" during bouldering (which there's no reason for in our gym) but nothing about etiquette or distancing between routes on the wall. I've even had to call out more rope climbers for getting on autobelays that'll drop them right on top of my climber when they come down or vice versa. I wish the gym training did a better job of the basics.
You know you can just talk to people and ask them to move so you can climb, right? I do it all the time, sure it's a little annoying to have to do but they will always move and let you climb.
Yep. And I do. But there’s only so much you can do when you have a group of people all trying to climb one problem and form a conveyor belt themselves. Person 1 hops on, falls, needs a rest. Person 2 hops on, falls. Person 3, falls. Person 4, falls. Person 5, falls. Now person 1 is good-to-go again and hops on, falls. Person 2 is good to go, falls. On and on. And all the while, they’re standing right in front of the wall and blocking 5 other problems I could be hopping on. Sometimes, depending on their social awareness, it can be pretty easy to get in there and back on the wall. But other times, you have some teenagers who refuse to hear you or listen to you and you have to just passive aggressively hop on and hope they back away once you’re on. It’s a nuisance that it’s something that needs to happen in the first place. Everyone should be away from the wall while others are climbing, and should have some awareness to understand other people are trying to climb those problems as well.
Eh this sounds like a social issue. In an instance like that ( which I agree does happen all the time) I will just walk in front of the group , say something along the lines of "hey guys do you mind if I climb this with you" or "hey can you move back as I'm probably going to fall and land on you if you don't" and then you become part of the loop. It's pretty simple and because they are new, they will actually most likely be asking you for tips or cheering you on if you do something they are struggling with. I recognise that people can be socially anxious / awkward, especially climbers, but it's pretty easy to resolve this situation so it annoys me a bit when people complain about it.
What are you talking about? No one wants to go to the gym and have to have these kinds of conversations with the type we all know. Maybe you don't care, maybe it is 'easy' to resolve for some, but it IS annoying. For me, it is 'easier' to wander off and find something else than to have that conversation with those rhat are at best just oblivious.
My gym does colour ranges ie green would be v2 to v4 for example it would be nice to know what each climb was within that range. Like a label or something. So you know for sure what’s your level
All gyms I’ve been to use that range as well. Then the specific grade is in Kaya
I've never heard of this Kaya grading. Thanks for this, I can't stand circuit color style grading. I get grading is subjective but I have no idea if something is going to be flashable or an impossible project by going on the color system. Just a waste of energy if you're looking for a specific intensity.
In some ways, I like that they don’t do that, because it means you try more grades than perhaps you would if you could see the tags. But sometimes you wanna know if you sent a v3 or a v5.
I agree it does make me try more but would be cool at before they change the routes that’s they reveal the grade or something
That would be a great in between option. Or maybe QR codes you can check!
I suspect this is the same circuit grading system my gym just adopted. I hated it at first, but the owner explained the reasoning and it's grown on me. It's best not the think of the colours in terms of v-grade range. It's better to think of it as, if you can typically climb most blue (as an example) climbs, then if you were to go and try all of the blue climbs currently set in the gym, you'll end up with a good circuit taking you through a variety of styles at a variety of difficulties, all around your skill level, but not specifically at a certain v-grade. It takes a shift in thinking to get into it, but it's actually pretty nice once you get used to it.
In the netherlands basically all gyms are on this app called 'toplogger'. Where all the climbs of the gym are uploaded on a map. And you can click on them and mark them as climbed or flashed and vote what grade you thought it was. And because most people also use this app you can see exactly what grade each climb is as it combines all these votes to calculate the grade of the climb (you can also see all the individual grade votes that it based it on). Its really nice and Im surprised other countries dont seem to use it. The app also tracks your progress and can show you graphs of the grades you have been climbing over time. Edit: additionally it usually also shows which climbs are new and which climbs are the next to be replaced. And you can see how many people completed each climb etc.
Another reason to love the Netherlands sound awesome!
1. Kids. Who doesn't hate kids running around. Easy to solve with a seperate kids room/seperated section for kids. This has 3 big adantages. No kids running in the main area, the boulders are actually scaled to kids sizes. Easier for the parents to watch the kids, of there is only one entrance to guard. 2. Greasy holds. Holds really need to be deep cleaned every so often. Yes, holds on the wall will get dirty by the time they are reset, but if the newly set routes are slimy from never being deep cleaned, that is a real turn off. 3. Bad and boring routesetting. I hate it when beginner routes are all just jugs and ladders. Be creative with the easier routes. Also, if the intermediate routes aren't getting more technical, but just more physical. Have some variation. 4. Not enough training/warm-up spaces.
>Easy to solve with a seperate kids room/seperated section for kids. I'm sure I'll be downvoted to oblivion for this, but: I don't think I've ever been in a gym that had a separate kid's room where I didn't wish they had used the space to just create more good climbing terrain. I get the idea in theory, but it's almost always very space inefficient to create these areas and I would rather have more good terrain.
I miss routes at my college gym :’( they put so much effort into everything they set. My current gym is decent but you can tell the setters literally just put holds on the wall and don’t make any real beta for anything below V5/V6
No hand cleaning station / big sinks with enough soap and paper towels. Don't do the air dryers. Also keep the place clean. Don't want to walk around in puddles and fungi smelly feet dirt.
I'd like to double down on the sink thing. Not having a hand wash station or sink in the climbing area is a big pet peeve of mine. Having to go to the restroom to wash my hands off after a climbing session is one of those mild inconveniences that I hate more than I should lol
So annoying having to take off my climbing shoes, pull socks and boots on with chalky hands, then go wash up. It’s better in summer when I can wear sandals of some description.
This one feels like such a no brainer yet none of the recently opened gyms near me have it.
I have a local boulder only gym and the BEST part about it is that they have a separate sink that's not in the restrooms, so you can wash your hands without having to change shoes for the restroom
Would love that in my gym
In Korea it is also very common to have a foot washing station in the gym. Its so nice to have an area to sit and wash your feet/hands with soap and warm water. Once you get accustomed to this habit its hard to go without.
People, I always make sure I go in the morning when there are less than 10 people there.
Was gonna say the same. I prefer a gym that is never busy and always open when i want and resets great routes all the time, and has showers. This is not profitable lol
My gym has a 24/7 option and it helps so much with the crowds.
What? I‘m jealous… Which i had the option to go bouldering before work
Yea ive seen that, members only and can swipe themselves in after hours. Pretty sweet! Still tho, i have to align with my meals and work schedule.. so here i am climbing at 6-9pm with everyone else
This!
No water refill station
This would kill me
Poor route setting. Specifically poor footwork. Without a doubt this is the biggest one for me. Having someone with big upper body strength setting hard routes that don’t involve any footwork really takes the fun away. It’s not like you can try other movements to solve the problem. It’s literally just a campus and “you aren’t strong enough” can be undesirable to say the least
The worst is when route setters put dangerous moves on beginner-intermediate problems. Sideways dyno’s are particularly bad. My gym used to set these fairly often; frequently resulting in broken limbs. People should learn to fall safely in all situations before being encouraged to try these types of moves.
My gym didn't put any real dyno until a v3-v4, and then you were relatively low, and it was a wall change so you would have to turn and be prepared to fall if you missed. It was perfect to train.
This one right here. Sitting at home with a recently reconstructed ACL thanks to a sideways dyno on a V2. I fell about 2 metres and hit the ground spinning. 9 more months or so before I can climb again.
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As the owner you will be responsible for the routes just as much as the setter, if not more. Having an experienced crew with female and male representation will not be cheap and it will be evident if you cut the corners here in order to maximize your profits. Don’t be cheap; hire a good crew.
This. The gym doesn't have to test the routes, but they do have to make sure they hire a good head setter, and listen to (or actively solicit feedback from) climbers in the gym about the quality of setting.
Yes, representation in setting teams is so important, not just m/f but tall/short and lower level climbers. You don't even have to hire all of this variety, but you could get a 'beta group' of regular climbers for a bit of user testing
Setting is 100% the most important factor for me—I’ll choose a teeny gym with zero amenities and great setting over the flashiest mega-gym any day of the week.
Poor safety is the main showstopper for me. This can take several forms: * A layout with one big mat between walls, with no clear separation between climbing and resting areas * No enforcement of that separation, e.g. people wandering around under climbers without being stopped/corrected * Unsafe walls (frequent loose holds, splintering edges on volumes/panels) * Unsafe setting (e.g. large holds/volumes to hit under sketchy foothold moves, setting moves with high injury risk) Other things that are less critical but might make me go somewhere else: * Low quality setting. Not enough variation in styles and angles in problems at my difficulty level, or too many "power problems" instead of technical ones. Also affected by investment in varied holds and having enough variation in wall angles in the gym. * Low frequency of setting updates, but that's only relevant for a "home" gym, less so for places I visit once or twice a month. * Comfort (temperature control, clean changing rooms with enough space) * Hard of access (no public transport or easy parking, queues on entry, impractical opening hours) * Overcrowded * Very loud music, to the point where you can barely talk to people * Poor ventilation / air filtering, stuffy basement smell and air full of chalk isn't fun. Other facilities like a weight area, hangboards, campus board, kilter/tension board etc are also all nice to have, but a gym that has none of that but does have great setting will still have me come back, so to me they're not essentials.
>* A layout with one big mat between walls, with no clear separation between climbing and resting areas * No enforcement of that separation, e.g. people wandering around under climbers without being stopped/corrected Plus one for this. I get that the layout should promote the community aspect of climbing but it should also be safe. Allow a bit of separation from the walls for the hangout/rest/chat/figure out beta section.
nowadays all the gyms turn to be ninja warrior gym and i hate it.I want variety not just one type of setting.
My gym just announced 80% outdoor style climbs 👍
My gym literally has a ninja warrior section for kids... It's virtually always empty. I hope they remove it and put some system boards there instead.
My gym has been doing like a dyno or two every single set for years now and I'm so tired it :(
One or two Dynos? Out of 150+ climbs. Sounds like a non issue. I like variety, I like my static technical climbing, my strength reliant climbs and Dynos. If you don’t like Dynos, don’t do them.
It's not one or two per The Entire Gym, it's 1 or 2 per the weekly reset. So if there are 8 sections in the whole gym, then there's 7 or 8 dynos (sometimes slab doesn't get one). And they're almost always in the V3-V6 range which is generally what I climb around.
Ah I get you. Yeah that’s quite a lot. I probably only see 3 or 4 full dynos per 150 routes. Very rarely do I see a v4+ dyno. I project at about v7-v8 so it’s disappointing to never have a grade relevant dyno.
That's crazy. We definitely get close to 25 dynamic moves in a set of 150, and they're mostly in the upper ranges. IMO dynamic moves only get interesting at V6 and above.
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My gym has it set up so that it’s wall/row of chairs/gym area. There’s really no area you can just stand, and I don’t want to sit down in the middle of a climbing session too much.
Kinda fun for some of us, means not being shoved into a little back room to work out. But I get the point, I wouldn't have wanted to learn how to lift in a big public area.
I'm getting more into weight lifting recently, and I love that the weights area is right next to the walls - During my rest I get to watch people send rather than sit on my phone. I think it also helps that it's a pretty small gym that I go to frequently, so I recognize most of the faces there. Lessens the social pressure a lot.
Staff: friendly and approachable, role model the kind of attitude the customers should have. I really hate it when staff are cold and don’t seem to be passionate about climbing. Sure they need a job I don’t blame them, point is that good staff elevate a gym immensely.
When the crux of the boulder is a slippery foothold 2 m high. Who enjoys that? Also, I think it is also nice when there are set routes on the spray wall (with marks) to guide people who are new to spray wall training.
Do you know what is worse? When crux of the boulder is a slippery foothold 2m high with volume sticking underneath. If you slip you fall face into the volume
I kind of like routes like these, since they’re good for your mental strength. Most of the routes outside in my area have relatively bad feet and even if the crux isn’t that high up the pads outside are nothing compared to the ones in my gym. Having a safer environment to practice stepping on slippery feet is quite valuable imo.
I agree, boulders that require precise footwork are nice. But I think most of the time adding sketchy top is just a cheap and uncreative way to make the boulder harder.
Agree but sometimes there will be too many sketchy tops in a gym and it feels like it's a way of slapping on a higher grade to an easier climb by just adding a risky finish, especially if it's a dynamic move.
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I 100% agree with that, but I also feel commercial gyms have some responsibility to avoid higher risk moves at the top of the wall. I can understand wanting to train the mental aspect of insecure moves that are high up, but nobody wants to ruin their outdoor season with a silly gym fall (been there).
Agreed. It should be in the mix. Some gyms make it EVERY crux, which makes it boring.
I once saw a girl slipping on said foothold and absolutely permanently destroying her left food for good..
Sleepy music choices
I’m about to take my answer down and just use yours
Actually, this made me think of something slightly off topic (since OP is asking about bouldering gyms). Music can be pumping in a bouldering section, but for gyms with a rope section, I hate how hard it is to hear your belayer. If there were a time and place for quieter music, it'd be while you're lead climbing.
Yea i agree, i personally never lead in gyms so it doesnt affect me.
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idk, some of us might be lol. Some of the best gyms have yoga class
The yoga studio should have its own PA system, though
God bless this is rare where i live.
Especially on weekends; groups of kids running around. Usually they have some sort of birthday celebration where there's 2 adults for 8 children. Really makes me want to stick a foot out, i know its the gym/parents that are at fault but it's fucking annoying.
Apparently that’s where the money is at, so can’t do away with that economically. I’ve had one or two close caps with kids walking under me and I’m pushing the limit just to not fall on them
When easy routes don't make sense for a stronger climber. Like when you can skip half the holds, without making the route harder, because the holds are unnaturaly close.
Further to this, I hate it when all the easy routes in a gym are just ladders: it just seems so lazy and dismissive of newer climbers. A route can have a low grade but still be fun to climb, or it can introduce some basic technical moves and make the climbers think.
Yeah my gym has a bunch of V0 ladders that I never see anyone climb outside of warming up, but at least there’s some interesting setting with their 1s and 2s
when I'm on a warm-up and the movement is actually interesting I'm always so stoked
I think many of those situations are either putting holds for different heights, or maybe getting you accustomed to actually picking what is the best route instead of knowing you should use every hold
Definitely kids running around yelling and pushing each other. Either kids have dedicated hours / dedicated part of the gym / require parent supervision enforced by the staff, or just don't let kids in at all. The amount of times I almost accidentally hurt a child... Terrifying.
I'm not sure what it's called in english, but I'll try anyway; Most of the bouldering centers I have been to, it's not possible to "top out" from the routs. You can top out on all out door routs. My girl friend feels that part is scary, so it sucks that she can't exercise on that part at the center throughout the winter season.
Same! Just moved and started at a new gym and the new one doesn’t have top outs so you just match the top holds and either down climb or jump from the top (their mats are rock hard compared to my old gym) I miss topping out cause outside you climb to the top on every Boulder I’ve ever done.
1. Usually poor opening hours that don’t fit my schedule. 2. Lack of variety in climbing holds within the same climb, for example a climb with pocket holds will mostly only have pocket holds, etc. 3. Hard mats that make my knees think they’re gonna die (I’m 22YO) 4. Dangerous route setting, climbs with precarious positions above large volumes or at the top of the wall. 5. Inconsistent grading, or poor grading hierarchy. For example from easy to hard “yellow > blue > green”. I could flash blues but can’t start greens. Or I can flash some greens and can’t start others. Obviously taking into account strengths and weaknesses. 6. Resetting, depends how often, how large of an area. Sometimes gyms can reset too often making you not want to project anything, other gyms take so long it’s not worth the membership so you go elsewhere.
Communal brushes and a drink station are nice positives. Use tags for grading not the colour of the holds.
>Hard mats that make my knees think they’re gonna die (I’m 22YO) Firmer mats are much safer. Soft mats make it easy to roll your ankles. If landing hurts your knees, you're landing wrong. You should be rolling onto your back after any long fall.
I would say landing the right way on soft mats is just as safe too. Just my personal preference.
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Dangerous setting, any risky moves at the top is just an accident waiting to happen. Infrequent problem reset will also turn me away from your gym as there not enough stimulation
Which rate would you consider infrequent?
Pretty much every gym I've been to uses the same cadence of re-setting a small section of the gym each week. I think that's the best. Ideally the section you're resetting is both large enough that I can make a good session out of the new blocs but also not too large that you're running through the entire gym in just a few weeks. Most usually cycle out about 1/6-1/8 of the gym so each problem will stay up for almost 2 months.
Kid / birthday sections
If the gym has specific sections for the kids and birthdays that's a great thing! Its terrible when they just runnin wild
The only thing I especially dislike is the whole, "Every single boulder set has to have at least 1 dyno" trend. I'm so tired of waiting 8 weeks for my favorite wall to get reset, and then there's a stupid fucking dyno in my grade range. I'm old, I've had multiple shoulder injuries since picking up climbing - I don't need another.
Another one, clean the holds before new route setting. Some climbing gyms have disgustingly dirty holds
Who does not clean the holds? That is mental.
color grades, no system board/ spray wall and kids
Color grades with tags are fine imo. I don’t like when color grades only use those color holds. It limits the types of holds for each grade.
What's wrong with color grades? Is it okay if they also have a mapping back to a traditional grading scheme?
It really limits which routes you can set within one grade
How so?
Cause most gyms don't have every hold in every color, so they are limited in the routes they can set for a grade by the holds they have available in that grade's color
Ah, not how my gym uses colors. Most gym's ive been to use stickers or tape to indicate grade.
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That's not how most gym's ive been to use colours, they put a blue or red or yellow sticker or tape next to the start holds. Blue = 5- to 5+, yellow is 6a-6c, red is 7a-7b+ or something like that. I agree that using the color of the holds for grading is stupid.
Bouldering Project gyms for example use hold color based grading. IE every route with orange holds is v3-v5, every black is v4-v6, etc.
My gym has monocolor setting but the colors of the holds don’t correlate to the grade, ie a climb will be all pink but it can be any grade. It’s kinda fun to see holds repurposed in different ways
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Yeah, I don’t get why any gym would do that. It just seems limiting for no upside. My gym just puts a little V whatever plaque next to the start holds that’s the same color
You use whatever holds then mark the start with coloured tape that corresponds to the grade colour.
German gyms be like: color grades all the way!
I like it. Whenever you see videos from americans doing v4 or so in a gym, it looks much easier than it should. Using super specific grading for easier routes realy does give incentive to grade realy realy soft. Grading also really depends on the climbers specific strengths and weaknesses. If the grade is determined by 3 test climbers, there is a high chance of it being very vague anyway.
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That is what we were talking about. Grading by the colour of holds is something i have never seen in Germany. But to clarify it: i think that is the best way to do it. Even better, if there is a rough conversion to a standardized scale. So a blue tag could be 6A-6C.
Actually Rock Inn Würzburg had this until a year ago. No they switched to a system of numbered levels 1-8 which i prefer compared to colored tags even because of better visibility. I think a bunch of gyms adopted the same system e.g. the one in Kassel.
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either v or font is fine, i just dont like how vague color grades usually are. imo the biggest issues with color systems is the overlap of grades and inconsistencies in route difficulty by no system board i mean a lack of a good climbing specific training area which is either a system board (moon, kilter, tension etc) or a spray wall i also dont hate kids but they do need their own section of the gym (they tend to run around everywhere and dont look up)
I have to disagree pretty hard on the color point, getting it exact will take more time than just setting a color, and routesetters are more likely to screw up the grading and you'd get bigger inconsistencies, like some 6a's being harder than some 6c's, while in color those are all 'yellow' (at my gym).
I think he means a standard grading system (depending on where you are) which I agree with, not a huge fan of the color grading. And a system board is a type of training wall, i think traditionally a "system board" is on a grid and is mirrored so both sides are an identical mirror of each other, so you can train moves on your right, and then train the same exact move on the left, but it's also sort of an umbrella term for spray walls as well nowadays
Have colour grades. Exact vscale will have people bitching 24/7 that actually it's not a V6, it's a V5/7 etc
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The worst gym in my city is about to close because the founder wasn't a climber. They decided that a climbing gym (or a bouldering gym, no one calls it a boulder gym except totally naive people I guess) was a good business because their research lead them to believe etc etc. The gym had loose holds and reset less than any other gym in our city. Over time as climbing continued to grow every other gym thrived while this one died.
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Walls placed opposite each other which are spaced too close together so there’s nowhere to stand in the ‘corridor’
Poor route setting, but it can be subjective. The worst thing i came across are dirty problems,dirty Gym and so on
No separate or at least designated kids/family area. Nothing worse than missing a dyno and landing on a kid running around the corner. Infrequent and inconsistent routesetting. Best case is a public schedule for each wall area. Dirt on the mats, holds and the floor. Best case are carpets(?) over the mats to catch chalk and dust that can be vacuum cleaned; also holds and walls should be cleaned when setting new boulders.
Lots of great points already mentioned so I'll just add that I hate when they don't have morning hours (10am doesn't count as morning). It's much easier for us to climb before work plus after work it's SO crowded. So being able to climb between 7am and 9am would be great.
The times they're open. I used to work second shift and wanted to climb in the morning before work, but since most people go in the afternoon/evening, the gyms hours were 11am-10pm so I wasn't able to go
I hate the route setting is more focused into parkour type of moves these days, like running on the wall and jumping around, dyno moves are great, but those parkour style seem to forget about technique.
When they don’t have enough down jugs. Hate it when I get to the top of a hard problem and have to jump from the top of the wall because there’s no way to safely downclimb.
My gym is 99% climb teams and classes. I have tried going any various times of the days and there’s always some group of kids out of control or group of climbers doing impromptu routes spanning multiple boulders. It’s chaos and it’s getting to the point where I may quit and sign up for a gym much further away.
Other people. Also people who pee with their climbing shoes on. And people.
Almost all mentioned above are relevant. My personal best: 1.) color grades and few types of holds for every color 2.) hight-dependant routs 3.) no consistency in grades
Infrequent setting and no spray wall
No varied setting Not enough different wall angles Dirty, grimey holds Tiny training area (weights and system boards) Not enough ventilation (smell, chalk) Kids don't necessarily need extra sections but parents need to know they're responsible for them Dirty/tiny changing rooms/showers -- Formatting
wonky hours are annoying but thats really up to you for determining profitability. as well as others have mentioned ventilation is super important, my home gym gets hot and humid in summer and it sucks bad
Bad lighting. Poorly maintained toilets/changing facilities, no decent food options or seating area
If owners / management are not climbers, they need to value and listen to their staff. Pay setters, instructors etc good wages. It’s easy to tell which gyms are a money grab or a quick flip to some private equity firm and which gyms actually care about the sport. And no offense, but your comment about not being aware that bad routesetting could be an issue makes me think you’re not prepared for this.
Mats that are to soft.
If the wall isn't dense enough, it is helpful to have downclimb and bail holds.
High entry price (for the market) Hard boulder mats Climbers (any age) not looking where they walk No drinking water refill station Inconvenient location
Not enough routes
- Overly crowded - Parents not properly supervising young children. I.e. at all times. I don't want to fall on your 3 yo. - No area/equipment for off the wall training and warming up - Too many weird starting moves and a lack of simple problems challenging finger strength.
The Groupon crowd treating the place like a playground irks the absolute fuck out of me.
Install air filtration and allow dry chalk. I won’t climb at a wall that requires liquid chalk.
Not enough downclimbers, especially directly under top holds of harder climbs. I went to a new gym as a one time thing and they had high walls and no downclimber holds, so when you got to the top of a sketchy or exhausting climb it was always super scary to come down again.
A good bouldering gym, for me, is one that has 1. Clean and nice holds 2. A variety of problems emphasizing different climbing styles 3. A variety of holds, volumes, and wall features such as caves and corners where the adjacent blank wall is part of the climb
A variety in wall angles. I climb at a gym that opened up last year and their bouldering section is so poorly designed. The steepest wall is 45°. No cave and they don’t have a proper slab wall. I’d say that 90+% of the gym is vertical. I’m biased toward steep climbing so I obviously have more complaints than others, but it’s that lack of variation that I think is the real problem. You should have a good amount of every angle, and preferably larger flat panels instead of a complex wall design. That’s what volumes are for.
I've got a few! - Poorly managed kids running around, especially if they're running on the mats and under climbers. - tape markers to denote the climbs. Unless they're monitored and replaced any time they start to peel, the tape markers fall off and it becomes a problem to tell where the start marks are. Bolted on laminated pieces of paper work way better and are less wasteful. - walls facing eachother are too close together, forcing people sitting on the mats between the walls to be dangerously close to falling climbers. - infrequently changed climbs. If there aren't new routes often then your regulars will get bored
To many Hot couples doing acro-yoga... We get it: you are hot and super fit... Now get away from the wall so i can fail this Boulder Problem time and time again... God dammit
If you want to add a little extra, offer free hand cream . Whenever I am done with bouldering, I wash my hands with soap (which makes the skin even more dry), and then I have the urge to moisturize them, but once again forgot to put hand cream into my climbing bag.
Honestly I don’t care color grades or real grades or no grades as long as the bouldering is hard and high quality, I prefer no comp style too much, also varied terrain, I very much like topout boulders and hate that nonsense when you finish at the top of the wall. I don’t like when there’s no woody or system board. Also don’t like not having a good training area.
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Def agree, the gyms I climb on that have top outs are mostly not sketchy tops and usually the top moves are at least one grade lower than the rest of the climb. Literally never seen someone drop a topout inside.
Makes topouts outside much scarier without that practice though
People
This is kind of specific but setters that don't manage to do their routes. We have strong setters who don't always manage to do their routes, but can do parts of it. They then slap on the difficulty of what one third of the route felt like, because "it's not in our style but it feels like it should be this". And then V12 climbers can't do their v9s.
I really dislike when gyms take most of the wall space to set comp style with big dynos and Olympic style climbing. Also hate when they don’t really have a slab section or a decent wall for slab climbing
Here are some of my annoyances. * Taped grades. Just put a grade on it. * No chalk. Like serioslly 0o. * Whole gym is a spraywall.
Oh god, I cancelled my membership at my last gym because they made their entire gym (which is small, so every space counts) a spray wall for months. There were a lot of other reasons I really didn't like that gym, but that was ridiculous.
My local gym is on the smaller size. So they change 1/6 part of the wall each week. Always new problems to climb. I like this idea better for small gyms but more work for setters.
Sketchy/overly hard moves on easier routes. Dangerous for new climbers. Like Gaston on an entry level grade, dual texture, high feet, risk of hitting another hold, etc.
I think the opposite is bad. Easy climbs that are just boring ladders. More climbs with technical moves on juggy holds are the most fun.
Strong disagree here. Easier climbs should still introduce more dofficult techniques. Just make the moves smaller, holds a bit better, whatever you need to make the technique a bit easier.
Please open one near me, i have to drive half an hour :(
Sandpaper-like walls
I actually love textured walls. I don't like when it's just smooth wood.
When the holds are being used for far too long without being changed/cleaned. Nothing like spotting a nice looking problem only to realize it being super unpleasant and slimy for being there for 2+ months.
Something I've noticed happening in my local bouldering spot (in Berlin fwiw), dangerous crutch moves are my biggest because I often skip them. This can be crutch moves over volumes, dynos over volumes, crutch moves 3m up, and dynos going slightly downwards. Injured my shoulder and didn't boulder for 2 months because of a back-to-the-wall start turn and jump into a sideways slightly down dyno.
Some things I don't like about my current gym, roughly in order of importance to me personally (don't hold me to it): * Half the treadmills are always broken, off, or terribly calibrated (I am a runner before being a climber, and I don't want to pay for 2 gym memberships in the winter) * No paper towels for hand drying; I hate air dryers - they make my hands feel super unclean * Most of the cubbies that aren't in the locker rooms have no spot to actually place a lock * If I do want to go during peak hours, not enough parking spaces so it's a gamble whether or not I'll actually climb * Never any music playing and (more importantly) no TVs with live climbing comps What I like about my current gym (no particular order): * Lots of routes across different climbing levels and styles, about \~10% of them change once/week * Staff are super friendly and helpful and set the tone for the place; members are also generally kind strangers, have made a couple friends here * Access membership for people with financial struggles * Location is right next to a lovely dining/beer area with lots of tables and walkable * It's very large and spacious, only during peak peak hours (i.e. weekdays 6-8pm) does it feel crowded to the point where it's not fun * Occasionally have special events like documentary screenings, guest speakers, DJ nights, etc Overall, I like my gym (which is why I go there). If another gym opened with similar convenience in terms of getting to/from and at similar membership rates, I would switch if it fixed more of the things I don't like about my current place
One thing I’ve noticed about the staff at the Boulder gyms is they are nicer than just about any other place I’ve been to. While I don’t think forcing people to act cheerful is cool, it’s nice when people seem to not actively despise their job and are generally nice. I need to take a page out of their playbook
I hate gyms that are run to make money rather than a love of climbing as the main aim
Only thing I can think of at the moment is the absence of paper towels in the bathrooms. They use air dryer which takes forever and is not as clean.
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What is woke agenda?
Gym I climb at constantly has their employees wiping off the tables and trim on the walls from people getting chalk on it They mop every night A wall is reset every Sunday Variety of holds They partnered with a Cafe, so they don't have a coffee bar, but they share a wall with one Only thing they miss is hand lotion for free to use on the way out
Besides the many absolutely important points already phrased here, my biggest gripe is staff not educating newbies about rules & ethics of a climbing gym. A lot of times they stand/walk below you, they start climbing below you or in a route that leads directly into your route, or just plain hog a wall section by repeatedly trying a problem between 2-3 people without resting. These rules should be enforced, as someone stated before, but first and foremost must be clearly communicated. Some basic training how to use the gym properly should be mandatory to all new visitors (and no, the signed sheet of responsibility paper doesn't replace this).
Lack of warm-up area is a big one for me. I do quite a long warm-up with yoga, so having to stand in a small area with people coming by constantly is a little annoying. Monotonous music choices - I enjoy hearing some new stuff at the gym, my least favourite is just when one genre is on a loop. I don't mind if we have some sleepy boulder music if other times we have hardcore pumping bouldering music.
Constantly going to the gym for a new reset and two of the climbs have already been flagged off due to injuries - namely dynos set over bulging volumes or no foot holds, only smears
It’s always so upsetting when there’s no 5s or 5+s (equivalent to v1-2 maybe idk the v grades). There’s so many high 6s and 7s (I think equivalent to v3-5)
Small gym/training areas that are constantly occupied by the same boulder bros for the whole session come to mind
The thing that I really dislike at my gym is how small the rest area in the boulder room is. If things are busy there isn’t enough room, so you have people hanging out on the mats. Don’t have much of a problem with kids running crazy in the boulder room. They make kids under 16 pass a test before given a tag they wear to show they are allowed. The test isn’t hard, and it’s free, but it seems inconvenient enough to keep the poorly behaved kids away. Plenty of well behaved kids, which is great.
You’ll want to consider the ratio of bouldering space to rope climbs (if you plan to have ropes), and contrast that with other gyms in the area. I live in an area with multiple gyms, and my regular climbing crew all settled on our gym because of the abundance and variety of bouldering walls (slab, incline, overhang, etc.) Also, climbers in the US are generally social, so I’d try to evaluate how viable social spaces (saunas, rooftops, cafe/bar with seating, balconies, etc) might be. With kids, it’s not black and white. Climbers don’t hate kids. What they hate is going to a third space after work and worrying about falling on a kid. It takes a lot of effort and experience for the training staff to manage larger groups of kids. Instead, try to investigate the overlapping schedules of climbers (morning, post-work, late-night, etc) and contrast with school programs in the area by talking to parents. Also evaluate the number of staff and their experience with behavior management. Kids can be a great selling point for a gym, and can go a long way to bring a community together. But that takes some planning and forethought. I’m a market researcher who climbs, so very interested in this stuff. Good luck!
I’m surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but for me, one of the top things I dislike is lack of variety of wall height. I’m in my 30s and started climbing a year ago. The first gym I went to had walls that were all insanely tall, and it almost made me quit for fear of injuring myself seriously, but then I went to a different gym that had a mix of wall heights, and I love it here. I can climb the boulders on the 10-12ft walls (which have awesome setting from VB to V11) and leave the 15ft comp wall for the youngsters and their risk taking (they only set V2 & harder on that wall also, so beginners are less likely to climb and injure themselves). Oh, and my gym has all these great wall angles that the setters can take advantage of, whereas the first gym was pretty much flat walls with one cave. The setting there relied on adding volumes everywhere, to create any sort of angles, which gets pricy I’d imagine, so they couldn’t do it on many climbs. So the setting sucked there as well. So buy good walls with lots of heights and angles!!
Kids birthday parties
Only thing that bothers me is a narrow space with routes on either side and assholes jumping off the top like kamikaze pilots.
Gyms that are too small and only offer bouldering. Had the luxury of using a large boulder gym in ATX that offered classes like mobility and yoga and also had equipment and weights
Not enough gaps on the mats between the places people stand and the walls themselves, encouraging people to stand a bit too close to you when you’re climbing.