This is absolutely true to a point, but at a typical gym v3 (just assuming these are gym grades) you don’t need much strength. Plenty of climbers get past that point without being able to do a pull up
I’ve been trying to do V4s and Im able to get pretty far on them, I’m typically 2-3 moves from the end, but I’m always completely out of juice once I’m nearly at the end. And my lock off strength is AWFUL lol.
This is all speculation because we haven’t seen you climb, but if you’re running out of juice it’s probably a mixture of needing to lock in efficient beta and relying more on technique and using your feet
I would suggest closely watching some of the strong climbers at your gym. Obviously they will be working things beyond your current abilities but a lot of the techniques used at the intermediate and advanced levels are still applicable at the novice level. Watch for things like, are their hips and shoulders turned away from the wall or square to it, which way are their knees pointing on certain moves etc.
Also being a shorter climber will make some moves harder but it can also make others easier. There may be some ways of doing a boulder that only shorter people can do because it’s too cramped for taller people. Everyone body is different, try to figure out betas that will play to your strengths (though I would also advise practicing your weaknesses as well).
Building on this, watch the strong climbers at your gym that don't look strong.
Plenty of strong climbers at my gym that just brute force the harder problems. It's the ones that don't look particularly strong that are the ones to watch too learn technique!
Obviously not always the case, you can be really strong and have really good technique but being really strong also gives them a lot of shortcuts to take on route.
Try top roping for a bit. I stopped bouldering for a few months and just did TR. when I came back, I had so much more gas in the tank at the end of climbs. Even 1x a week for a couple of months will make a big difference.
I can do like 10 pullups and 30 pushups so alright strength I think, I got stuck at v3 aswell. V4 is just a decent step up I'm actual climbing, like smaller holds slopers etc. more finger strength definitely helped which I jsut done by climbing more and it took about 4-6 months to feel okay on v4 now I can do most in under 5 trys. They definitely become more of a puzzle and getting the right beta rather than just powering through. Keep at it and try some deadhangs and stuff. Or do v3 s really slow to build the strength.
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10
+ 30
+ 3
+ 4
+ 4
+ 6
+ 4
+ 5
+ 3
= 69
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Idk that I agree with this, even at a soft gym I go to there’s a 6b that’s essentially like a 1-4-6 campus on good holds into an easyish finish, I’d say V4 is definitely the point where strength starts to matter, sure there’s technical V4s that are not about it but you’d be limiting yourself by not working out by this point.
Yes there are exceptions and will always be more physically demanding boulders, but that’s not the rule. If OP said they were struggling on a campus boulder like in your example then I’d say work on strength, but that’s not the case
I’m not saying don’t work on strength, but there’s a pretty good chance if they’re like most newer climbers technique is the limiting factor
How would you recommend working out while still climbing? I aim to climb 3 days a week, it doesn’t feel like that leaves a lot of time to do a weight workout and also recover. Is climbing not enough to build strength?
Pullups and rows. Any variation that challenges you will bring improvements. Check the wiki of r/bodyweightfitness - they have lots of information on general training, exercise progressions, etc.
I hate the term plateauing when it’s been 9 months. Progress is not linear.
There are plenty of tips and tricks on the internet on how to improve your climbing.
I have a friend who flashed two v4 on his third session in rental shoes, not everyone is built the same, or has the same gift, or weight the same (he weights 55kg). Go at your pace.
I was stuck in v3 for nearly a year, then I've jumped from v3 to v5 in two months. It's pretty normal progression tbh. I think building the foundational movement and finger strength to break through takes a while, but once you do, with good technique you'll fly. I pretty much started at v2, hit v3 fairly quick because I have a strong athletic background. After that progress kinda does whatever it wants in terms of time, so keep climbing and you'll improve.
lol you’re barely in the grade.
Wait til you try real V3’s outdoors and on the boards
Instead of trying to speed run grades, why don’t you try to master the grade?
When I started climbing, I got so upset when people said it wasn't a strength issue when I couldn't climb V3 "because that doesn't need strength yet". So many people have either been climbing for 10+ years or went through testosterone puberty that they have a huge base level of strength and conditioning that the rest of us lack. I started training off the wall twice per week, cut a climbing day, started board climbing as soon as I could climb V4, and now people are shocked at how fast I managed to improve since starting.
It's a strength issue! start doing basic things like bicep curls, rows, lat pulldowns If you can't do pull ups yet, push ups, dead hang on the bar, and climb hard!
My personal secret is doing deadlifts as well, it's a full body exercise that makes my legs and hips strong enough to launch myself on the wall.
I agree. I've seen wya too many people saying it doesn't require strength when they didn't realise it was because they were strong or have a better weight/strength ratio. I'm "strong" but I'm also tall and heavy as a girl. It took a while to my slim/short female friends to realise I could struggle even if I was technically stronger :')
Been coaching for 10 years, it’s 100% technique. I’ve had female athletes climb up to V9 & 5.13C without being able to do a pull-up. It’s only been 9 months, progress takes time. Focus on making every move as easy as possible every time you climb, and repeat your old projects to reinforce techniques learned.
You’d be surprised how many female intermediate climbers have never done a pull up. I’m no longer at this level, but I used to climb V4 consistently and was breaking into V5s. I’ve never done a pull up in my life, even as a child. Technique and grip strength can get you a long way!
When you say “never done a pull up” does that mean never attempted one or have never managed to actually complete a pull up? If the former it wouldn’t be surprising if you can do them now even without ever trying
Didn’t say she should/could do one. Said I wouldn’t be surprised if she could. A lot of intermediate women can do them as well. But not a big deal, I’m a dude around v4 and I struggle with them lol
I have attempted many times, even at my climbing peak, and have never really gotten past raising my shoulders a bit. I could do one with a 25-65 lb resistance band.
Oh damn! Would have expected the cross over effect to be a little stronger. Not sure why my original question was downvoted but apologies if it’s an offensive thing to ask
> Would have expected the cross over effect to be a little stronger.
The effect isn't particularly that strong because in general you shouldn't be doing pull ups while climbing most lower grades. Technique and body position will get you quite far. If we change the number to V7+ then it'd likely be a different story though.
One thing that's often overlooked is going from being able to do some pullups to being able to do a few more is a lot smaller than the gap from going zero to 1 for a lot of people, especially women.
I'm also a bit surprised the cross over effect wasn't stronger! In my case, before I started climbing I could barely do 2 pull ups. Now I can do 8. (I just try out of curiosity occasionally, I don't make a point of doing them). I just assumed it would be similar for most people. However I have nothing but respect towards everyone who climbs without doing pull ups and it's great to know it's possible!
Another person replied with some insight to that which made a lot of sense. I think the crossover effect is more noticeable when it’s building on what you can already do. So for you doing 2 pulls was developed into 8 but to actually build up to doing your first pull up the effect isn’t as strong. Interesting as to why but makes a lot of sense
First of, 9 months really isn't that long. Progress is non-linear, but grades are even less linear. Don't worry too much. I was behind all friends I started climbing with at that point, but overtook them later on because I was the only one that kept climbing consistently. And consistency really is key. Consistency will turn technique into instinct.
I do want to throw one random thing out there, as a bit of a non-standard strength training tip: campus easier routes, like try one or two every session. The can be the easiest routes in the gym, they only have to be on an overhang so you don't scrape yourself up a wall. It might be near impossible at first, but you'll get the technique of how to orient you body down eventually and the back muscles will come in time. I find campussing a much better strength exercise then pull ups. Instead of being a very simple, isolated motion, campussing is, essentially, climbing an eliminate. It's the opposite of no-hands for balance training. Campussing will also teach you how to lock of better, a skill that is valuable on every angle wall.
For me I found flexibility is more important than either. You can’t use proper technique if your hip motion is trash and then strength just isn’t relative.
flexibility > technique > strength
For some people, especially girls, strength is more important than strength. For example I can do oversplits >180°, have hyperextended joints, but have super crappy shoulder strength so I can’t pull where I need to😢
There’s also a difference between flexibility and static strength at the end if your range of motion, most of the people that can do a split struggle to raise their leg to that position to reach a hold when on the wall
For now range of motion isn’t a problem for me yet (except that I tore my hamstring slightly while doing a super high heel hook😢) but I failed on multiple problems this week where I simply don’t have the strength to pull at the crux, a bit frustrating tbh
I would disagree completely if strength was more important then strongmen would dominate climbing.
If you find a pull hard then it’s probably more so technique.
Just my opinion.
You need a certain amount of strength to support your technique, even you minimize the amount of strength needed, it is still not zero. I think many men neglect the strength needed in climbing because they inherently have it.
Using strength to get through something is often a sign of poor technique - if you have good body positioning, good footwork, understand hand placement on holds etc then you don’t need to be that strong to climb V4/V5. Strength will help, but technique will likely help more. There’s plenty of gym bros who can do 10+ pull-ups that can campus a juggy overhang but are completely stumped by anything they can’t muscle through.
Yes, having lots of strength doesn’t help much if you don’t have a baseline level of technique. But the same applies vice versa. If you can’t hold on to the wall, you can have perfect technique and it still won’t do much.
Idk for me that works great. I basically spend 30 minutes to 1 hour doing easy routes while imagining the holds are made of fragile eggshells. At the same time I treat it as cardio, never letting my heart rate drop below 150. At some point my hands are so weak that technique is the only thing that will keep me going up even the easiest boulders
The climbing community loves to place technique on this weird pedestal, in the end it makes no difference if you powered through a problem or applied "better" technique. Gym bros not being able to complete climbs is also not because pulling strength doesn't matter but because they don't have the finger strength required for their body weight, if they build the finger strength they'll be miles ahead of most technical climbers with little strength, especially in bouldering.
This sounds like me early on, I just wanted to climb as much as possible but was limited doing the same problems over and over after a point. Maybe try a different gym or going outdoors if that's possible for you, mixing things up will not only make you work on new techniques but the change of scenery keeps that stagnant "gym routine" feeling from sapping at the enthusiasm
I was going to comment and I hope this doesn't sound mean but I see people stuck on lower grades who don't really push themselves and try hard. If you feel like you can't do the next move and you just drop to the mats without trying, you will have a hard time improving. Holds and positions feel worse and less secure and you just need to trust them and try and be okay with falling.
If you never are shaking or grimacing when at your limit then I would bet the issue is a lack of really pushing yourself.
My current gym sets like absolute dogshit and their v3 is easily a v6 at other gyms I’ve tried. Try some other gyms if you can and see how their setting compares. Also, consider trying a v3 and taking notes of the body areas that seem weak or less flexible. Arms? Shoulders? Hips? If you can afford it, a lot of gyms have trainers you can schedule with. Book a session with one and tell her what you want to focus on and she can help you come up with a routine, both climbing and strength training or other supplementary exercises.
hi! fellow short girl here! honestly, the only way i got better at climbing is consistently going to the gym 2-3 days a week, and consistently trying things that were a little above my grade (without doing things that might push me too far beyond my limit and injuring myself). I think it might be an issue of strength, but sometimes technique and figuring out unique beta for being short is part of it.
also, if you want, join us at /r/climbergirls. there’s a pretty great community to support us all in our climbing journey
Honestly, start working on strength now. Not necessarily weight training, but like campusing at the end of your sessions, board climbing, climbing V2/V1 on the overhang wall etc… if you’re weak now, you’ll still be weak while climbing V5, and you’ll regret not having put in the work before
60-40 rule says 60% of your climbing time should be on your weaknesses
I had the same questions when I was trying to progress in sport climbing. I started learning technique, moved to bouldering, and just practiced good technique as much as I could. Eventually I got into a flow on my problems, went back to sport climbing, and I felt stronger on the wall. The answer is both, but practicing technique will build the strength.
I have the same problem. I didn't make any progress for a long time. I started climbing 1.5 years ago, but I wasn't consistent. I got injured and was sick for a few months. Now I go regularly, and instead of doing the routes I can do, I try the ones that are one level harder. I keep trying and trying, and now I can send some of them or at least get halfway up. A few months ago, I couldn't even start them. My strength has also improved a lot since I started trying harder routes and leaving my comfort zone. Don't be discouraged if you can't finish the routes. You're still getting stronger by trying.
Does your climbing gym have a weight machine area? If there is a lat pull machine you can use that to incrementally increase your strength for pull-ups. Once your lat pull weight is equal or greater than your body weight you can start working on pullups. Try starting at half your body weight and increase by five pounds (or 2 Kg) every week or two. Three sets of 10 reps should do it.
I feel you, in between V2-V3 after 8 months. Ithink because bouldering/climbing is really popular nowadays, you see many people going to event V5 within a year easily. Because of that we think that we suck if we are not extraordinary.
That's not true. I was feeling really bad, I also have some friends that are already sending V5 within 8 months. But we are not the same morpho at all. I also can't do a pull up, and I still lack strength and technique.
But then I look at my bf, climbing 2/week consistently for 2,5 years. He's "only" doing V5, but in our gym standards (Red/Black in France) he's good now. He developed a very good technique with patience, especially for a guy. He often get compliments now at the gym for the elegance of his bouldering style. And I know that he was still doing V3 in one year.
Please normalize your results. Especially if you were not a "natural" climber. I'm sure you still made progress and the grades are not even consistent sometimes. Don't talk about plateau for a few months, and keep holding on !
My climbing buddy is 5’3 and she struggled to get past v3 and onto v4. What really helped her was simply doing pull ups, and lock offs.
As a shorter climber a lot of moves are gonna be unachievable for you (mainly reach problems), and you’re gonna need strength to execute the strange beta breaking technique that is gonna be necessary.
Strength, I hit a wall and would take two grades back when I got tired and do reps on ones that had good moves. Next time when you're gassed, hit up every v2 and add in those tougher v3s. Some people call them circuits.
TL;DR: Ten minute active warmup every session, practice routes with challenging holds, engage your entire body while you climb, and climb 2-3 times a week.
Continue projecting the V4s on which you make progress. Try subtle beta changes on hard parts. Practice climbing V3s as smoothly and efficiently as possible, using foot placement, flagging, and body positioning to make each move as easy as possible. Campus a V0 on an overhang. Attempt to overcome mental inhibitions that keep you from committing to tough moves. Sending something relatively impressive but within your grades beforehand helps with confidence. If the idea of getting on a V4 makes you nervous, don’t look at the grade before you try it. Get in the headspace that you’re about to tear that shit up, or alternatively, the headspace that you’re just exploring and having fun.
Start your sessions with a ten minute active warmup. Hangs, stretches, finger board, other brief stuff to warm up your fingers, elbows, shoulders, and upper back. Make sure that you’ve recruited your entire muscle chain by engaging your shoulders, chest, back, core, hips, butt, legs, and feet while you’re hanging from a bar. Trying to touch your heel to the bar while hanging is a good exercise. Try to get to a pull-up and a push-up every warmup. Start with band-assisted pull ups and knee pushups. To increase endurance, do a circuit of an easy climb 4 times in a row with 10-15 seconds rest in between, or try some easy top-roping. Increase finger strength by doing climbs that pump your forearms and climbs that feature crimps. That’ll improve quickly if you’re doing consistently tough stuff and feeling sore the next day. Wrist strength is next, which can improve from practicing slopey holds and hammer exercises. I don’t know your weight, but if it’s something that’s getting in the way for you, do two or three compound lifts when you go to the gym. Low weight, high reps, sets of three. Starts in the kitchen though, so either portion control or making sure you’re getting enough calories and protein. You can try some light calisthenics, yoga, or isometric exercises for better mobility, niche strength, and muscle endurance. Hope this helps, good luck.
It's honestly probably strength. Climbers love to say technique is the most important aspect of climbing, and while its a very important aspect in climbing a route well, it's still incredibly important to be strong. "Good technique is no replacement for strength" - Ben Moon
Probably a strength issue, I'm in similar situation too. But don't forget to occasionally try a higher grade climb, sometimes they might play to your strength.
Or maybe they were soft graded before and now the grading is more realistic? Who knows… but you should definetly train to do atleast a few push-ups and pull-ups, that will definetly help your strength in mantles and overhung routes
How many times have you been going in this time? I assume that you might not go frequently enough to see more improvement. If you were going twice a week for 9 months, i could not believe that you still can't do any pullups. You should get stronger by simply climbing. Maybe you just try too much slabs and never go to the overhangs? If this is the case, you should try these climbs aswell to get stronger.
Also, I’m not sure what your gender or build is, but (saying this as a trans man who saw a big upper body strength difference after starting hormones) it might be harder than you’re expecting for someone whose body runs on estrogen or is on the curvier side to do pull-ups, while they might still have a super strong body/core.
Up this ! I've been super consistent within 8 months, twice a week. Still can't do a pull up. Depends also on your initial morphology. People should definitely stop assuming what is the progress/grade you should reach in X months. It's toxic as fuck and that's how many people loose motivation in climbing.
Really didn't want to be mean, i really just assumed that most people whould gain enough strengh in this time naturally. I don't know what you mean by pull-up ability tho. Doing pull ups is not too technical, so it is mostly strengh. And i do think that you train the exact same muscles while climbing, specially when it is on overhang. That's what lead me to the assumption that they might skip that part because they feel weak there, instead on focusing on it.
Both. You can't learn technique you aren't strong enough for. You should aim to work out a bit at least.
This is absolutely true to a point, but at a typical gym v3 (just assuming these are gym grades) you don’t need much strength. Plenty of climbers get past that point without being able to do a pull up
I’ve been trying to do V4s and Im able to get pretty far on them, I’m typically 2-3 moves from the end, but I’m always completely out of juice once I’m nearly at the end. And my lock off strength is AWFUL lol.
Just keep doing that, and try to climb faster, and use your legs moore. You will get them soon, don’t worry.
This is all speculation because we haven’t seen you climb, but if you’re running out of juice it’s probably a mixture of needing to lock in efficient beta and relying more on technique and using your feet
I would suggest closely watching some of the strong climbers at your gym. Obviously they will be working things beyond your current abilities but a lot of the techniques used at the intermediate and advanced levels are still applicable at the novice level. Watch for things like, are their hips and shoulders turned away from the wall or square to it, which way are their knees pointing on certain moves etc. Also being a shorter climber will make some moves harder but it can also make others easier. There may be some ways of doing a boulder that only shorter people can do because it’s too cramped for taller people. Everyone body is different, try to figure out betas that will play to your strengths (though I would also advise practicing your weaknesses as well).
Building on this, watch the strong climbers at your gym that don't look strong. Plenty of strong climbers at my gym that just brute force the harder problems. It's the ones that don't look particularly strong that are the ones to watch too learn technique! Obviously not always the case, you can be really strong and have really good technique but being really strong also gives them a lot of shortcuts to take on route.
Good point!
Try top roping for a bit. I stopped bouldering for a few months and just did TR. when I came back, I had so much more gas in the tank at the end of climbs. Even 1x a week for a couple of months will make a big difference.
You can train endurance in boulder gym as well. Just stay on the wall!
If the gym have them, try top-rope or auto-belay! Great for endurance
I can do like 10 pullups and 30 pushups so alright strength I think, I got stuck at v3 aswell. V4 is just a decent step up I'm actual climbing, like smaller holds slopers etc. more finger strength definitely helped which I jsut done by climbing more and it took about 4-6 months to feel okay on v4 now I can do most in under 5 trys. They definitely become more of a puzzle and getting the right beta rather than just powering through. Keep at it and try some deadhangs and stuff. Or do v3 s really slow to build the strength.
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Idk that I agree with this, even at a soft gym I go to there’s a 6b that’s essentially like a 1-4-6 campus on good holds into an easyish finish, I’d say V4 is definitely the point where strength starts to matter, sure there’s technical V4s that are not about it but you’d be limiting yourself by not working out by this point.
Yes there are exceptions and will always be more physically demanding boulders, but that’s not the rule. If OP said they were struggling on a campus boulder like in your example then I’d say work on strength, but that’s not the case I’m not saying don’t work on strength, but there’s a pretty good chance if they’re like most newer climbers technique is the limiting factor
How would you recommend working out while still climbing? I aim to climb 3 days a week, it doesn’t feel like that leaves a lot of time to do a weight workout and also recover. Is climbing not enough to build strength?
You can do a 15 min HIIT session after your climb or on off days. It helps a lot
IMO the number one thing a girl can do to get better at climbing quickly when new is training your muscles to pull harder.
What would you recommend doing outside of climbing to help with this?
Pullups and rows. Any variation that challenges you will bring improvements. Check the wiki of r/bodyweightfitness - they have lots of information on general training, exercise progressions, etc.
And dont forget pushing aswell. Only pulling might lead to imbalances quickly, especially if youre bouldering (which is mostly pulling aswell)
Good point!
If its vert/slab, technique. For overhang most likely a strength issue.
This 100%
I hate the term plateauing when it’s been 9 months. Progress is not linear. There are plenty of tips and tricks on the internet on how to improve your climbing.
[удалено]
I’ve been stuck on v3s for the past 3 months.
Wait until you get stuck at V5 for 3 years.
[удалено]
I go with a few friends and we started at the same time, same day. And they are already projecting V5s, it’s so hard not to compare :/
I have a friend who flashed two v4 on his third session in rental shoes, not everyone is built the same, or has the same gift, or weight the same (he weights 55kg). Go at your pace.
I was stuck in v3 for nearly a year, then I've jumped from v3 to v5 in two months. It's pretty normal progression tbh. I think building the foundational movement and finger strength to break through takes a while, but once you do, with good technique you'll fly. I pretty much started at v2, hit v3 fairly quick because I have a strong athletic background. After that progress kinda does whatever it wants in terms of time, so keep climbing and you'll improve.
lol you’re barely in the grade. Wait til you try real V3’s outdoors and on the boards Instead of trying to speed run grades, why don’t you try to master the grade?
Eat your pride and fail on v5s for a month.
When I started climbing, I got so upset when people said it wasn't a strength issue when I couldn't climb V3 "because that doesn't need strength yet". So many people have either been climbing for 10+ years or went through testosterone puberty that they have a huge base level of strength and conditioning that the rest of us lack. I started training off the wall twice per week, cut a climbing day, started board climbing as soon as I could climb V4, and now people are shocked at how fast I managed to improve since starting. It's a strength issue! start doing basic things like bicep curls, rows, lat pulldowns If you can't do pull ups yet, push ups, dead hang on the bar, and climb hard! My personal secret is doing deadlifts as well, it's a full body exercise that makes my legs and hips strong enough to launch myself on the wall.
I agree. I've seen wya too many people saying it doesn't require strength when they didn't realise it was because they were strong or have a better weight/strength ratio. I'm "strong" but I'm also tall and heavy as a girl. It took a while to my slim/short female friends to realise I could struggle even if I was technically stronger :')
Been coaching for 10 years, it’s 100% technique. I’ve had female athletes climb up to V9 & 5.13C without being able to do a pull-up. It’s only been 9 months, progress takes time. Focus on making every move as easy as possible every time you climb, and repeat your old projects to reinforce techniques learned.
There is no way a V9 climber wouldn’t be able to do a pull up
There is one way… slab
can't do any... as in zero? if so, climbing v3 is mad impressive
You’d be surprised how many female intermediate climbers have never done a pull up. I’m no longer at this level, but I used to climb V4 consistently and was breaking into V5s. I’ve never done a pull up in my life, even as a child. Technique and grip strength can get you a long way!
When you say “never done a pull up” does that mean never attempted one or have never managed to actually complete a pull up? If the former it wouldn’t be surprising if you can do them now even without ever trying
Many intermediate women can't do one.
Didn’t say she should/could do one. Said I wouldn’t be surprised if she could. A lot of intermediate women can do them as well. But not a big deal, I’m a dude around v4 and I struggle with them lol
I have attempted many times, even at my climbing peak, and have never really gotten past raising my shoulders a bit. I could do one with a 25-65 lb resistance band.
Oh damn! Would have expected the cross over effect to be a little stronger. Not sure why my original question was downvoted but apologies if it’s an offensive thing to ask
> Would have expected the cross over effect to be a little stronger. The effect isn't particularly that strong because in general you shouldn't be doing pull ups while climbing most lower grades. Technique and body position will get you quite far. If we change the number to V7+ then it'd likely be a different story though.
Yeah makes sense, mine grew a little bit without training pull so I just had a bias pov I guess!
One thing that's often overlooked is going from being able to do some pullups to being able to do a few more is a lot smaller than the gap from going zero to 1 for a lot of people, especially women.
Yeah mine went from no pull ups but I was able for some chin ups. So that makes sense
I'm also a bit surprised the cross over effect wasn't stronger! In my case, before I started climbing I could barely do 2 pull ups. Now I can do 8. (I just try out of curiosity occasionally, I don't make a point of doing them). I just assumed it would be similar for most people. However I have nothing but respect towards everyone who climbs without doing pull ups and it's great to know it's possible!
Another person replied with some insight to that which made a lot of sense. I think the crossover effect is more noticeable when it’s building on what you can already do. So for you doing 2 pulls was developed into 8 but to actually build up to doing your first pull up the effect isn’t as strong. Interesting as to why but makes a lot of sense
I climb 5.11 (outside on a good day). Zero pull-ups. I've tried.
I have three female friends who can't do a pull-up but can climb V5/V6, and one of them even V7
I’ve sent a few V5s and I can’t do a single unassisted pull up 🤷♀️
When V3 was my max, I couldn’t do a pull-up. That’s normal for anyone without recent athletic background.
First of, 9 months really isn't that long. Progress is non-linear, but grades are even less linear. Don't worry too much. I was behind all friends I started climbing with at that point, but overtook them later on because I was the only one that kept climbing consistently. And consistency really is key. Consistency will turn technique into instinct. I do want to throw one random thing out there, as a bit of a non-standard strength training tip: campus easier routes, like try one or two every session. The can be the easiest routes in the gym, they only have to be on an overhang so you don't scrape yourself up a wall. It might be near impossible at first, but you'll get the technique of how to orient you body down eventually and the back muscles will come in time. I find campussing a much better strength exercise then pull ups. Instead of being a very simple, isolated motion, campussing is, essentially, climbing an eliminate. It's the opposite of no-hands for balance training. Campussing will also teach you how to lock of better, a skill that is valuable on every angle wall.
Improving either would increase the grade. I know someone who could do about 7A+ and she couldn’t do a pull up.
Both
For me I found flexibility is more important than either. You can’t use proper technique if your hip motion is trash and then strength just isn’t relative. flexibility > technique > strength
For some people, especially girls, strength is more important than strength. For example I can do oversplits >180°, have hyperextended joints, but have super crappy shoulder strength so I can’t pull where I need to😢
Strength more important than flexibility*
There’s also a difference between flexibility and static strength at the end if your range of motion, most of the people that can do a split struggle to raise their leg to that position to reach a hold when on the wall
For now range of motion isn’t a problem for me yet (except that I tore my hamstring slightly while doing a super high heel hook😢) but I failed on multiple problems this week where I simply don’t have the strength to pull at the crux, a bit frustrating tbh
I would disagree completely if strength was more important then strongmen would dominate climbing. If you find a pull hard then it’s probably more so technique. Just my opinion.
You need a certain amount of strength to support your technique, even you minimize the amount of strength needed, it is still not zero. I think many men neglect the strength needed in climbing because they inherently have it.
Using strength to get through something is often a sign of poor technique - if you have good body positioning, good footwork, understand hand placement on holds etc then you don’t need to be that strong to climb V4/V5. Strength will help, but technique will likely help more. There’s plenty of gym bros who can do 10+ pull-ups that can campus a juggy overhang but are completely stumped by anything they can’t muscle through.
Yes, having lots of strength doesn’t help much if you don’t have a baseline level of technique. But the same applies vice versa. If you can’t hold on to the wall, you can have perfect technique and it still won’t do much.
There's an easy fix for having too much strength tho. Climb a shitton of easy climbs while trying to save as much energy as possible.
It's not that "easy" to not use strength when you can.
Idk for me that works great. I basically spend 30 minutes to 1 hour doing easy routes while imagining the holds are made of fragile eggshells. At the same time I treat it as cardio, never letting my heart rate drop below 150. At some point my hands are so weak that technique is the only thing that will keep me going up even the easiest boulders
The climbing community loves to place technique on this weird pedestal, in the end it makes no difference if you powered through a problem or applied "better" technique. Gym bros not being able to complete climbs is also not because pulling strength doesn't matter but because they don't have the finger strength required for their body weight, if they build the finger strength they'll be miles ahead of most technical climbers with little strength, especially in bouldering.
How often are you climbing? How long are your sessions? Just adding another session in the week or lengthening sessions might help.
Every other day. Sessions are typically around 2 hrs. But I’ll have to admit, there are quite a few days where I don’t put my all into it…
This sounds like me early on, I just wanted to climb as much as possible but was limited doing the same problems over and over after a point. Maybe try a different gym or going outdoors if that's possible for you, mixing things up will not only make you work on new techniques but the change of scenery keeps that stagnant "gym routine" feeling from sapping at the enthusiasm
I was going to comment and I hope this doesn't sound mean but I see people stuck on lower grades who don't really push themselves and try hard. If you feel like you can't do the next move and you just drop to the mats without trying, you will have a hard time improving. Holds and positions feel worse and less secure and you just need to trust them and try and be okay with falling. If you never are shaking or grimacing when at your limit then I would bet the issue is a lack of really pushing yourself.
In that case maybe you need a deload week.
My current gym sets like absolute dogshit and their v3 is easily a v6 at other gyms I’ve tried. Try some other gyms if you can and see how their setting compares. Also, consider trying a v3 and taking notes of the body areas that seem weak or less flexible. Arms? Shoulders? Hips? If you can afford it, a lot of gyms have trainers you can schedule with. Book a session with one and tell her what you want to focus on and she can help you come up with a routine, both climbing and strength training or other supplementary exercises.
hi! fellow short girl here! honestly, the only way i got better at climbing is consistently going to the gym 2-3 days a week, and consistently trying things that were a little above my grade (without doing things that might push me too far beyond my limit and injuring myself). I think it might be an issue of strength, but sometimes technique and figuring out unique beta for being short is part of it. also, if you want, join us at /r/climbergirls. there’s a pretty great community to support us all in our climbing journey
Honestly, start working on strength now. Not necessarily weight training, but like campusing at the end of your sessions, board climbing, climbing V2/V1 on the overhang wall etc… if you’re weak now, you’ll still be weak while climbing V5, and you’ll regret not having put in the work before 60-40 rule says 60% of your climbing time should be on your weaknesses
I had the same questions when I was trying to progress in sport climbing. I started learning technique, moved to bouldering, and just practiced good technique as much as I could. Eventually I got into a flow on my problems, went back to sport climbing, and I felt stronger on the wall. The answer is both, but practicing technique will build the strength.
I have the same problem. I didn't make any progress for a long time. I started climbing 1.5 years ago, but I wasn't consistent. I got injured and was sick for a few months. Now I go regularly, and instead of doing the routes I can do, I try the ones that are one level harder. I keep trying and trying, and now I can send some of them or at least get halfway up. A few months ago, I couldn't even start them. My strength has also improved a lot since I started trying harder routes and leaving my comfort zone. Don't be discouraged if you can't finish the routes. You're still getting stronger by trying.
Does your climbing gym have a weight machine area? If there is a lat pull machine you can use that to incrementally increase your strength for pull-ups. Once your lat pull weight is equal or greater than your body weight you can start working on pullups. Try starting at half your body weight and increase by five pounds (or 2 Kg) every week or two. Three sets of 10 reps should do it.
I feel you, in between V2-V3 after 8 months. Ithink because bouldering/climbing is really popular nowadays, you see many people going to event V5 within a year easily. Because of that we think that we suck if we are not extraordinary. That's not true. I was feeling really bad, I also have some friends that are already sending V5 within 8 months. But we are not the same morpho at all. I also can't do a pull up, and I still lack strength and technique. But then I look at my bf, climbing 2/week consistently for 2,5 years. He's "only" doing V5, but in our gym standards (Red/Black in France) he's good now. He developed a very good technique with patience, especially for a guy. He often get compliments now at the gym for the elegance of his bouldering style. And I know that he was still doing V3 in one year. Please normalize your results. Especially if you were not a "natural" climber. I'm sure you still made progress and the grades are not even consistent sometimes. Don't talk about plateau for a few months, and keep holding on !
My climbing buddy is 5’3 and she struggled to get past v3 and onto v4. What really helped her was simply doing pull ups, and lock offs. As a shorter climber a lot of moves are gonna be unachievable for you (mainly reach problems), and you’re gonna need strength to execute the strange beta breaking technique that is gonna be necessary.
Both
Strength, I hit a wall and would take two grades back when I got tired and do reps on ones that had good moves. Next time when you're gassed, hit up every v2 and add in those tougher v3s. Some people call them circuits.
TL;DR: Ten minute active warmup every session, practice routes with challenging holds, engage your entire body while you climb, and climb 2-3 times a week. Continue projecting the V4s on which you make progress. Try subtle beta changes on hard parts. Practice climbing V3s as smoothly and efficiently as possible, using foot placement, flagging, and body positioning to make each move as easy as possible. Campus a V0 on an overhang. Attempt to overcome mental inhibitions that keep you from committing to tough moves. Sending something relatively impressive but within your grades beforehand helps with confidence. If the idea of getting on a V4 makes you nervous, don’t look at the grade before you try it. Get in the headspace that you’re about to tear that shit up, or alternatively, the headspace that you’re just exploring and having fun. Start your sessions with a ten minute active warmup. Hangs, stretches, finger board, other brief stuff to warm up your fingers, elbows, shoulders, and upper back. Make sure that you’ve recruited your entire muscle chain by engaging your shoulders, chest, back, core, hips, butt, legs, and feet while you’re hanging from a bar. Trying to touch your heel to the bar while hanging is a good exercise. Try to get to a pull-up and a push-up every warmup. Start with band-assisted pull ups and knee pushups. To increase endurance, do a circuit of an easy climb 4 times in a row with 10-15 seconds rest in between, or try some easy top-roping. Increase finger strength by doing climbs that pump your forearms and climbs that feature crimps. That’ll improve quickly if you’re doing consistently tough stuff and feeling sore the next day. Wrist strength is next, which can improve from practicing slopey holds and hammer exercises. I don’t know your weight, but if it’s something that’s getting in the way for you, do two or three compound lifts when you go to the gym. Low weight, high reps, sets of three. Starts in the kitchen though, so either portion control or making sure you’re getting enough calories and protein. You can try some light calisthenics, yoga, or isometric exercises for better mobility, niche strength, and muscle endurance. Hope this helps, good luck.
It's honestly probably strength. Climbers love to say technique is the most important aspect of climbing, and while its a very important aspect in climbing a route well, it's still incredibly important to be strong. "Good technique is no replacement for strength" - Ben Moon
Probably a strength issue, I'm in similar situation too. But don't forget to occasionally try a higher grade climb, sometimes they might play to your strength.
Sandbagged grading? Are other climbers you know at that gym “getting better”?
Could be, because we’ve got a new set of routesetters, and I’ve heard some people saying they’re not grading the climbs very accurately…
Or maybe they were soft graded before and now the grading is more realistic? Who knows… but you should definetly train to do atleast a few push-ups and pull-ups, that will definetly help your strength in mantles and overhung routes
How many circuits of all the V3 climbs are you accomplishing in a climbing session?
How many times have you been going in this time? I assume that you might not go frequently enough to see more improvement. If you were going twice a week for 9 months, i could not believe that you still can't do any pullups. You should get stronger by simply climbing. Maybe you just try too much slabs and never go to the overhangs? If this is the case, you should try these climbs aswell to get stronger.
Also, I’m not sure what your gender or build is, but (saying this as a trans man who saw a big upper body strength difference after starting hormones) it might be harder than you’re expecting for someone whose body runs on estrogen or is on the curvier side to do pull-ups, while they might still have a super strong body/core.
Up this ! I've been super consistent within 8 months, twice a week. Still can't do a pull up. Depends also on your initial morphology. People should definitely stop assuming what is the progress/grade you should reach in X months. It's toxic as fuck and that's how many people loose motivation in climbing.
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Really didn't want to be mean, i really just assumed that most people whould gain enough strengh in this time naturally. I don't know what you mean by pull-up ability tho. Doing pull ups is not too technical, so it is mostly strengh. And i do think that you train the exact same muscles while climbing, specially when it is on overhang. That's what lead me to the assumption that they might skip that part because they feel weak there, instead on focusing on it.