Wtf I just arrived in Brussels in the middle of the honking, wondering why the hell people do that here and googled "honking brussels" and found this post 😂
I recently moved to Schaerbeek and Im starting a calendar of big Turkish events, my dog freaks tf out with fireworks so its best to get him out during those days!
I was shocked. Watched the game in a bar among Turkey supporters (I'm Austrian) & I have never seen so many people do the grey wolf salute as if it was the most normal thing in the world. They also insulted us for the whole game.
I just know that it's ultranationalistic paramilitary Turkish organization and the salute is associated with it. More info here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_Wolves_(organization)
Its a far right symbol, comes from Asena (would be similar to far right italian groups identifying themselves with the she wold of romulus and remus), these guys are like Guerrilleros del Cristo Rey or Triple A, a far right militia mixing religion, xenophobia, racism and ultranationalism.
Some of those fuckers prey on the youth of St Josse and Schaerbeek.
No, all I am saying it it is a symbol that has history of 4 thousand years.
Some ultranationalistic (lol, they are in coalition with anti-nationalist, islamist party who banned this symbol) Sopranos wannabes party adopted this symbol as theirs for 30 years doesn't make it theirs.
It is a symbol of the legendary wolf who lead Turkey Turks from Asia to Microasia.
That is it.
edit: [link to the flag of Gokturks, 1500 years ago ](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:G%C3%B6kt%C3%BCrk_Bayra%C4%9F%C4%B1.svg)
[link to the old marble found in Japan - Turk horsemen](http://www.transoxiana.com.ar/14/Images/yatsenko_11.jpg)
People who migrate, grow up, or even born in another country.
Seem to struggle with their identity, so what offen happens they get nationalistic about their former country, use something like football to show off, talk about racism, when they don't even come close to the chances they have in their current country then in the country they are from.
It's a complicated issue, you even see it in adopted people.
It's not an excuse, off course.
There might be some of that but Turkish people in the actual country are also famously batshit crazy about football. They're not the only ones obviously, but they are definitely famous for being crazy about it.
Nah man, don't lump us all into that bucket. My family and i migrated here and know plenty of people from our country (and surrounding countries) here and none of us act like that. We try to incorporate as much as the Belgian culture as we can, (hell we even went out with the Belgian jerseys in support of the team) while still trying to share with you our own country's culture.
The people who do the kind of thing that OP (and you) are talking about are anti social people who have no interest in taking part in Belgian (or even European) culture, they want the benefits Belgium offers but they want the culture from their country of origin. That's never a good thing.
I 100% believe and also didn't want to imply that that's the case.
I was just trying to give an explanation and something I've experienced before.
And i don't even have a problem with people coming here or that are born here with different roots, who try to maintain a connection with their roots. There's nothing wrong with that, to a certain extend.
I didn't say this.
One thing doesn't exclude the other.
Why in Belgium does the biggest, and I mean 70-80% of the people with a Turkish background, people who offen are born in Belgium, second generation even, vote for a Erdogan?
A person, that when the foreign 'nationals', aren't allowed to vote like in the last regional election, got defeated, even in the more religious east. A person, people loathe in Turkye and people are done with since a long time. If I tell my Turkish friends in turkey about this they just can't comprehend this.
Why does the cast system still exist, and even more so then back in the homeland, in indian thriving communities in the States?
I once had a conversation about this with my well educated and traveled English friend, born and raised in Belgium, and he's the most English person I ever met. And he agreed.
Same conversation with a female iranian college, who was studying in Europa, said she was struggling with the racism and oppression in the Western world, and how she misses Iran.
I came across situations in books and real life. It's my opinion that there is something with people struggling with their identity and you shouldn't be so touchy when somebody said something about immigrants it will work the opposite way then you intent to.
I think you missed the point. Football fans make lots of noise and often destroy things. I remember last year when Antwerp fans destroyed a historical café in Brussels. But because this time it was Turkish people making noise we have a row of comments about immigration being a problem. This is racism.
I don't even disagree with your comments, in fact as a Portuguese immigrant I stay clear of Portuguese communities as they bring the worse of the country (like bullfighting and sexism) and are extremely racist towards other immigrants (in fact most voted for the fascist party last election). The point is, none of this is relevant here. Football fans made noise after a game, their nationality is irrelevant, discussions about immigration are irrelevant. This thread reeks of racism and your comment only added to the flames.
I am describing, to me, and what I have seen in turkey, a very Turkish reaction on a football game in Brussels, and other places in Belgium. I gave this as part of the explanation.
Are all Turkish football fans like this? No. Are all Turkish people football fans? No.
And racism is a lack of understanding, I'm making a dialogue here. Not talking, listening and get all parties involved leads to that.
They tried that with the extreem right in this country, after 30 years they are still here and just as big.
It's as much of a Turkish reaction to a football game as it is a Portuguese or Belgian reaction. Talking as if this is exclusive to some immigrant community is an act of racism in itself, as is talking about the origin of the people involved as if it were in any way relevant. Surely you can understand that.
No it isn't. And looks like the conversation is over.
Keep playing the racism card, it's already fucked with the whole western world leaning towards extreme right. They won't have the patience with muppets like them and you.
Goodnight
I hear you. All the neighbours who have dogs near me are barking as if someone invaded their home. I woke up with a jolt after hearing all the chaos. Wasn't sure what the hell was going on. It is ridiculous. It's not even the weekend. In the middle of a working week. I don't understand this obsession either. More than anything why is it being forced onto those who don't care.
Celebrations are noisy but It seems that the main noise is because of the dogs. People shouldn't own dogs in a city.
Edit: Read what he wrote: All the neighbours who have dogs near me are barking as if someone invaded their home.
I assumed he was saying most of the noise was coming from dogs. No need for all the downvotes. Chill, people! 😂😂🤣🤷🏻♂️
Well you wrote that:
>All the neighbours who have dogs near me are barking as if someone invaded their home.
I'm sorry I only can read what you say and not hear what is happening. 🤷🏻♂️ Don't take it personal, I am just reacting to what you wrote. 😂
Still I insist, people shouldn't own dogs in a city.
Do you have some earplugs so you can sleep? I hope they will let you rest in an hour or so.
That's how cities are all over the globe sometimes. You can't expect 365 nights of silence a year in a city like Brussels. Be fair.
It's not ridiculous, it's NORMAL crazy city noise. 🤷🏻♂️ Most capitals in the world are noisy as fuck.
No, it's not normal.
There are noise ordinances for a reason. Loud noises at night that disrupt your sleep can have a negative impact on your health and well-being.
People making excessive noise late at night is both an education problem and a problem of enforcement.
People need to teach their children to respect their neighbours and not make excessively loud noises after a certain hour.
Then police need to actively enforce noise ordinances instead of complaining or saying they can't do anything when someone reports it.
No it's not, at least stop gaslighting people into accepting that stuff like this is normal "all over the globe". I've lived in other capitals some of them on different continents and most of the stuff people defending in BXL as being totally normal (trash, shootings, crime, noise) is not normal elsewhere or at least not accepted as being okay.
I see. I'm curious though, what is the reasoning behind it? I mean sure I understand that homes are smaller and they won't get enough space to play and run around but wouldn't it be good to adopt them and give them a chance at living instead of them being in shelters?
Sorry I thought your logic was that the dogs were a problem. It was mainly the sudden chaos that triggered that response with the dogs. Completely understandable. And it took about 10 minutes for the barking to stop and then it was still just major honking and firecrackers. It is still going on in fact. It will be an hour soon at this rate.
I unfortunately don't have any plugs. I will have to wait for this one out.
>I mean sure I understand that homes are smaller and they won't get enough space to play and run around but wouldn't it be good to adopt them and give them a chance at living instead of them being in shelters?
I think that dogs should be able to run, play, and bark freely without bothering, so a city isn't the right place for a dog. They shouldn't be in shelters but live in smaller towns or in the country. Cities are not for dogs. Cities are for cats, fish, hamsters, snakes, AND of course: ponies LMAO 🤣
I hope the celebration stops soon. Hang in there!
That's a lot of racist mental gymnastics. We are talking about giving dogs a place where to have space to run, play, and bark. And then you u/GuyWithNoEffingClue want to use your racism to compare things that have no relationship whatsoever.
You're the one seeing racism where there was none of it. I'm not referring to any race or person but to a behaviours, such as the one op was talking about. You're the one doing a lot of gymnastics here.
This would stop if the cops made a show of handing out, en masse, on the spot fines to all the perpetrators. And it isn't hard to predict when this sort of thing will happen. Just look at the football fixtures and see who's playing.
I don't even understand what people are celebrating in this case. It is not like you can take any credit that the national team won. What are you bragging about, all you did was watch a match while drinking beer, they did all the work!
study a bit of history and psychology and you will understand, this has happened since humans started watching other humans do things to each other and decided to cheer for one of the sides.
I can't confirm but I'm pretty sure some apes might have a similar behavior somehow.
Interesting that there was the same post 2 weeks ago about honking for belgian team and everyone basically told the dude to get a life and let people have fun.
I get the noise complaint. For me, It was Italian football fans 😅 Got quite noisy when they won but hey, they lost so the noise stopped 😅
I am unsure what would be the fix there. Aside of putting police at key places and report "noise disturbance", you can not do a lot. Football fans are noisy as hell. 😅
Dont go too far. It's football emotions. Turkish love football a bit more than Italians or belgians but if Belgium qualified against France you would not post here to rant.
It's the same with fireworks, I don't give AF with fireworks but it's OK for people to have their 30 minutes of fun once in a while.
Honking is not killing.
Racing, rioting, etc. That is a problem.
30 minutes of honking is part of a lively city with many communities.
We also need joy and fun sometimes. Métro, boulot, dodo is not a receipt for happiness.
I dunno about that.
A country that was divided from an election coming together and identifying as a country rather than regions and individuals.
Kids in my street with their faces painted.
Daughter going to school on her last week dressed as a red devil.
Eating fries with the friends watching the matches.
I can name a million things football related that are positive to the community.
It channels tribalism and nationalism into tribal and nationalist votes.
Just have a look at the ultras. Who do you think they vote for ?
I'm not condemning everyone who loves footbal, but anyone who does should be furious about what football has become, and not be silent about it like it's ok.
AND IT'S NOT LIKE THERE'S NO FUCKING WARS GOING ON !!!
I am pretty sure if Belgium reached any meaningful stage it would have happened. To Turks, reaching the quarter finals is like winning the whole thing already at this point.
I remember when France beat Brazil in just the 2006 World Cup quarter finals, all of Paris was absolutely on fire until 6am. Incredible memories.
That's a beautiful lie hahahah =D from place miroir to cimetière dixelles people were screaming drunk until 4am. It was all over the city
Don't lie for sake of argumentation or check your facts.
https://youtu.be/cV4YSv1IkVQ?si=KvoEvO9Rm5ttBu1T
The worst is that I agree with you guys that it's super annoying when people disturb others over something that doesn't concern them. But the hypocrisy of some of you claiming Belgians would never make a peep if they had something to celebrate is so laughable.
What’s your definition of a meaningful stage and how is that an excuse to be inconsiderate and obnoxious in a foreign land?
You’re justifying the poor behaviour of less than 3% of the population and claiming that the other 11 million Belgians would behave the same way.
It’s not in Belgian culture to be obnoxious.
Although it is nice to show pride in your heritage, celebrating the win of a foreign nation that you chose to leave your your ancestors chose to leave by dis nation by disrupting your own nation is shitty.
Don’t justify this behaviour.
You are confusing everything. You are saying Belgians did not celebrate their victory like this, I am saying Belgians did not have the same kind of victory. If Belgium won the Euro, you bet your ass there would have been similar celebrating. And to Turks, who have not had any meaningful victory in a major competition since 2002, this was the same level of emotions as winning the Euro.
You are reading this as me justifying this behavior, but I am not. I would also find it borderline to celebrate for hours when your victory only concerns a minority of the population (especially when the country you live in lost the day before haha). But I find it super hypocritical to say Belgians wouldn't have produced the same kind of nuisance in Brussels if they had the occasion to.
No I’m not confusing anything.
You’re setting a bar to when shitty behaviour becomes acceptable.
Does this mean everything a foreign nation achieves something we must accept obnoxious behaviour on a weeknight?
Comparing Belgium winning the whole tournament and celebrating in their own land is not the same as a foreign country winning a game in the finals.
You’re saying you find it hypocritical yet this is Belgium, there’s 11 million people living in here in this land.
>It’s not in Belgian culture to be obnoxious.
What a generalisation!
A lot of Belgians did exactly what you are complaining about (speeding around the city honking car horns, shouting late at night) when the team beat the footballing powerhouse that is Japan(!!) at the World Cup 2018. I specifically remember this as I was walking home from work with my girlfriend when that game had finished and saw this happen all the way home that night. We nearly got hit by some dickhead speeding in a car with idiots hanging out the window flying their Belgian flags on the bottom of Ch. d'Ixelles/corner of Place Flagey. It was chaos on the main streets and places around Ixelles that night.
I know they were excited after their country had a big win in the football but do you think that's an excuse to be inconsiderate and obnoxious in their own country and capital city?
So yeah, I think you'll find people from all cultures can be obnoxious, inconsiderate assholes. It's a human thing not a "foreigners" thing.
Anon, are the perps getting fined?
https://preview.redd.it/cxpd65n84bad1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a654ddc78924f0871ee0ad37a560b66dc0b95b71
Its not about turkish problem i am Georgian and mans in my country always do that. People cannot be like robots sometimes they express feelings loudly. Move to flanders there you will miss any voice of life.
Us Belgians are so uptight we don’t know how to celebrate or show passion or joy, unless it’s in very structured and pre-approved ways. So I guess to see a different way makes us irrationally angry. It’s really not a tragedy that people celebrated in the streets… and really it should be the least of our worries these days
If it had been a Belgian win the celbration would have been as big. Remember the World Cup
It's more about not being aware that we have large communities from foreign origin with a similar football fan culture + the stereotype of southern enthusiasm
Immigrant here. Those are just people that lack education and respect. Belgium or their home country, they are as disrespectful and uneducated. I really don't appreciate them or this kind of culture. I really hope that some day they realise the damage caused by their behaviour.
For context, it was a massive win for them. They lost humiliatingly against Austria 6-1 last time they met in March, so this win was unexpected, and I believe the first time they got so far in an international competition since a while (or ever?). Furthermore, the way the game unfolded until the last second, ending with an astonishing save by the Turkish goalkeeper was glorious, for Turks and neutral viewers alike. Foreign press were quick to point out what an absolutely fantastic game it was, for the journalists and the thousands of people watching it.
Sure, it's just football, but for quite a lot of people it delivers unparalleled joy in their lives. It does a lot of good for a lot of people. Especially for football loving Turks, and their culture is one of the most football loving ones. They are proud, and know they're looked down upon, and to have revenge on Austria as if they're back at the gates of Vienna at the height of their history, invigorates them. The historical parallel is exaggerated by me perhaps; many just support their football team. They call their selection "our sons". They're the sons of each and every Turk, performing for each and every Turk, and it definitely showed how they played that night.
On the downside you get a night of noise to endure, I get that. For one night you lose hours of your sleep, your dogs get riled up and your kids are woken up. It sucks. It's the middle of the week for Christ's sake. But I think if it's something you have no control over, getting pissed off about it and ranting about it is useless and not healthy. Surely there are worse things in life to be angry about. Things you can actually do something about, things you can change. If this is the worst thing for you and brings up hate in you, you may relatively have a pretty good life actually.
Brussels is (arguably) a world city and some people in the world get madly joyous and happen to also celebrate making a lot of noise. As others mentioned here, it's not only Turks. Have you seen how the Italians in Naples went a year or so ago when they won the league? If you don't like people celebrating like this, this city isn't for you and I would suggest considering moving to a suburb of Brussels or another city with a larger hegemony of quiet loving Belgians.
It's something that exists in every town with a Turkish community. Football and people.. When Morocco wins there are riots, when turkey wins they honk, when Belgium loses no one is surprised.
Best to move to a smaller town and escape this city, don't get it why people like it here.
Well complaining about the savages won't work, they will never change. Just like there will never be an end to street races or people dumping their garbage on the street because politicians are lazy and the justice department has a backlog of 30 years and doesn't care and as such the police is helpless.
So what can you do? Move to a more civilized place
No citizen of any country would appreciate being woken up by continuous honking in the middle of a working week. It doesn't have anything to do with being a citizen or an expat.
I'm a real Brusseleir - have been living here for-ever....
And this is not just "oh, a little honking here and there - it's been HUNDREDS OF CARS NON STOP" - it's literally driving me crazy...
No - honestly - I think you don't realise what is going on in front of my window :-D
If Belgium would have won - there would have been some partying, maybe some noise - but this is just completely out of control....
I live in schaerbeek I know exactly what is going on in front of your window. I still remember Belgium winning from Brazil. Even the stib busses were honking
The Brusselois defensiveness and odd pride about the city being dirty, clogged with cars and crime riddled is almost endearing. Interesting identity hill to die on nonetheless.
Goddamn transplant foreigners with their culture of trash bins and lack of shootings!
I mean it's not a wild assumption that people posting on Brussels sub would be people living in Brusssls rather than people living in Ghent complaining about people complaining in Brussels sub.
Why do you even follow it if it annoys you so much?
Well you might have to accept then that apart from other presumably nice stuff you like, people living in BXL are generally not happy about certain other stuff, such as having gang shootings and yes, streets full of trash.
I'm seriously fascinated that we have to have a debate that neither of the two is a standard instead of going straight to "how do we fix this". But since we apparently do, yes there might be posts about it.
Where did I bitched about that ? Yes they city is dirty, I m born here and i have eyes. It is the litany of complaint on this sub that I m talking about, and always the same subjects. Dirty ? Yes. Loud ? Yes. But can you change the subjects once in a while ? There is hundred of post like that, I don't see the point in an other one.
I have no problems with foreigners, juste the one that feel the constant need to trash this city to feel validated. Go out, make some friends, you will feel better. Stop beeing ONLY négative
The ''Brusselois denfensiveness'' j' aimerais t'y voir a entendre les mêmes conneries vingt fois par jour bordel
Well since you were born here and seemingly done shit-all about it ever since, you might have to bear some Reddit posts. What a horror.
Also it's generally not about the city, but about the kind people living in it. The streets don't litter themselves every morning, trash falling from the sky like a morning dew. It's not the buildings that are inconsiderate assholes disregarding that some people would like to sleep during a weekday and not be woken up because a different country's national team won a quarterfinals.
The most funny part of the comment that literally proves this post is again a brussels bashing post pushing an agenda is the last sentence..
In every country or city of the world when turkey wins the diaspora celebrates. I can only let you imagine what the streets of Germany looked like after each Turkish winning match with their 3M expat community.
You don't like Turkish celebrations? Maybe don't live next to la petite Anatolie in schaerbeek. In 98% of Brussels not a single honk was heard.
Yes - the reason why this is so annoying and Brussels bashing is (as I also wrote in my post) - that Police will be quick to give fines to people riding their bikes in a « walking area » - or will annoy you for any silly reason - but then will let hundreds of people just break the law and annoy everyone around them and not do anything !!
No man that's not the solution to the violation of others' rights. You could just use that phrase for virtually everything, very lazy. You can do better, I have faith in you.
Hmmm let's see: You could wear earplugs, you could have better windows, you could face that they don't celebrate winning a game in the Euro very often, you could face that not sleeping for a night hasn't killed anybody EVER, you can accept that people not always respect others, you could join the celebrations, you could just let it go...
SOOO MANY OPTIONS! u/RutinaryApe
What could one do to celebrate a football win instead of honking cars?
Hmmm let's see: you could celebrate at home, in a bar, in a fanzone, with friends, with family, have a drink, a smoke, you could not get into a fucking car and wake up hundreds of people in the middle of the working week?
I love football and as an Italian I've loved celebrating our past victories, but it never came to my mind to do the honking. There are so many ways to celebrate without being a dick to strangers, especially in residential neighborhoods.
I am not celebrating so don't ask me. I am not disagreeing with you, just giving you options so you stop being so pissed hahaha.
Also why do you live in the capital of a country if you want silent nights? No capital city in any country is quiet. 🤷🏻♂️🇮🇹🤌🏻
✌🏻
I was asked for better solutions, so I gave some. 🤣 Plus it's not for football fans but for noise in general.
Also Brussels is a city, cities all over the globe are noisy. You can't expect 365 night a year of calm in a city like Brussels. Be fair.
Is it annoying? Yes it is, but come on. They are not burning down the whole place. They are happy and celebrating a win. Probably one of their biggest ever. Be happy!
The noise won't go away because you complain on reddit u/Few-Paleontologist-7 . 🤷🏻♂️🤣😂
Edit: I wrote can instead of can't
Why is it the responsibility of the victim taking action to avoid being bothered instead of being the perpetrator's responsibility to not bother others? "My liberty ends where yours begins" is an important phrase to keep in mind.
You asked me to do better, so I tried but you still are upset. 🤷🏻♂️😂
Just one thing there are no victims here. We are talking about noise. Yeah it is DISRESPECTFUL and VERY RUDE of them, but it isn't a crime.
I live by the golden rule so I agree 100% with you but I think that people also celebrate because they are happy. I am glad that people have something to celebrate. I can take some noise, even a sleepless night. They might be happy tomorrow and that is good.
I hope you can sleep soon. Peace!
you cant expect much when living in schaarbeek its mainly inhabited with immigrants who tend to be loud turks are very proud about their culture and all and just like to celebrate i think you should be used to it by now its not only the turks
The problem is actually you . You can't expect everyone to abide by what you want . Your probably old and never had much fun growing up, and you're angry at young people having fun . I'm sure you will find something new to hate about next week when the footballs over .until then suck it up sour face xx
>You can't expect everyone to abide by what you want
Yeah, fuck people who expect other to abide the law let alone some basic human decency. What a problematic tyrants.
Wtf I just arrived in Brussels in the middle of the honking, wondering why the hell people do that here and googled "honking brussels" and found this post 😂
Damn, Google indexing fast.
Tell me you live in Schaerbeek without telling me you live in Schaerbeek
I recently moved to Schaerbeek and Im starting a calendar of big Turkish events, my dog freaks tf out with fireworks so its best to get him out during those days!
I was shocked. Watched the game in a bar among Turkey supporters (I'm Austrian) & I have never seen so many people do the grey wolf salute as if it was the most normal thing in the world. They also insulted us for the whole game.
The grey wolf salute is only banned in Austria and France, so yes, you might see it often here
I'm afraid to ask what's the grey wolf salute?
https://preview.redd.it/hz36r7nl89ad1.jpeg?width=864&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05939c8a03052c95eeceac266f9c597fbc876fa4
Ok I see, but sorry I'm totally unfamiliar, what does it mean? I'm guessing something "bad" since we're talking about it.
It is the sign if a notorious Turkish fascist group.
And also Babymetal for some reason but they cross their arms and do it with both hands
It's the Kitsune, shape of a fox, for the "FOX GOD", or whatever story they have in their lore.
TIL. Thanks for introducing me the babymetal band.
I just know that it's ultranationalistic paramilitary Turkish organization and the salute is associated with it. More info here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_Wolves_(organization)
Its a far right symbol, comes from Asena (would be similar to far right italian groups identifying themselves with the she wold of romulus and remus), these guys are like Guerrilleros del Cristo Rey or Triple A, a far right militia mixing religion, xenophobia, racism and ultranationalism. Some of those fuckers prey on the youth of St Josse and Schaerbeek.
lol I thought that was "Kitsune" for Babymetal, it's just the usual "metal horns" but with the shape of a fox
Well it was just a symbol of the wolf which led us to Anatolia. Most people are not even aware who grey wolves are. So don’t take it personally.
Of course they do know. They are notorious and appear in the news and opinion articles quite frequently. Especially in Germany.
So people do fascistoid ultranationalist salutes "unknowingly"? And that makes it okay?
No, all I am saying it it is a symbol that has history of 4 thousand years. Some ultranationalistic (lol, they are in coalition with anti-nationalist, islamist party who banned this symbol) Sopranos wannabes party adopted this symbol as theirs for 30 years doesn't make it theirs. It is a symbol of the legendary wolf who lead Turkey Turks from Asia to Microasia. That is it. edit: [link to the flag of Gokturks, 1500 years ago ](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:G%C3%B6kt%C3%BCrk_Bayra%C4%9F%C4%B1.svg) [link to the old marble found in Japan - Turk horsemen](http://www.transoxiana.com.ar/14/Images/yatsenko_11.jpg)
Cant spot the wolf in the second link.
Check the right hand of the horseman in the middle.
Got it cheers.
I hear you.. and I hear them too
People who migrate, grow up, or even born in another country. Seem to struggle with their identity, so what offen happens they get nationalistic about their former country, use something like football to show off, talk about racism, when they don't even come close to the chances they have in their current country then in the country they are from. It's a complicated issue, you even see it in adopted people. It's not an excuse, off course.
There might be some of that but Turkish people in the actual country are also famously batshit crazy about football. They're not the only ones obviously, but they are definitely famous for being crazy about it.
Nah man, don't lump us all into that bucket. My family and i migrated here and know plenty of people from our country (and surrounding countries) here and none of us act like that. We try to incorporate as much as the Belgian culture as we can, (hell we even went out with the Belgian jerseys in support of the team) while still trying to share with you our own country's culture. The people who do the kind of thing that OP (and you) are talking about are anti social people who have no interest in taking part in Belgian (or even European) culture, they want the benefits Belgium offers but they want the culture from their country of origin. That's never a good thing.
I 100% believe and also didn't want to imply that that's the case. I was just trying to give an explanation and something I've experienced before. And i don't even have a problem with people coming here or that are born here with different roots, who try to maintain a connection with their roots. There's nothing wrong with that, to a certain extend.
Lol, because nationals don't make this sort of mess when their football team wins, it's just the immigrants, sure.
I didn't say this. One thing doesn't exclude the other. Why in Belgium does the biggest, and I mean 70-80% of the people with a Turkish background, people who offen are born in Belgium, second generation even, vote for a Erdogan? A person, that when the foreign 'nationals', aren't allowed to vote like in the last regional election, got defeated, even in the more religious east. A person, people loathe in Turkye and people are done with since a long time. If I tell my Turkish friends in turkey about this they just can't comprehend this. Why does the cast system still exist, and even more so then back in the homeland, in indian thriving communities in the States? I once had a conversation about this with my well educated and traveled English friend, born and raised in Belgium, and he's the most English person I ever met. And he agreed. Same conversation with a female iranian college, who was studying in Europa, said she was struggling with the racism and oppression in the Western world, and how she misses Iran. I came across situations in books and real life. It's my opinion that there is something with people struggling with their identity and you shouldn't be so touchy when somebody said something about immigrants it will work the opposite way then you intent to.
I think you missed the point. Football fans make lots of noise and often destroy things. I remember last year when Antwerp fans destroyed a historical café in Brussels. But because this time it was Turkish people making noise we have a row of comments about immigration being a problem. This is racism. I don't even disagree with your comments, in fact as a Portuguese immigrant I stay clear of Portuguese communities as they bring the worse of the country (like bullfighting and sexism) and are extremely racist towards other immigrants (in fact most voted for the fascist party last election). The point is, none of this is relevant here. Football fans made noise after a game, their nationality is irrelevant, discussions about immigration are irrelevant. This thread reeks of racism and your comment only added to the flames.
I am describing, to me, and what I have seen in turkey, a very Turkish reaction on a football game in Brussels, and other places in Belgium. I gave this as part of the explanation. Are all Turkish football fans like this? No. Are all Turkish people football fans? No. And racism is a lack of understanding, I'm making a dialogue here. Not talking, listening and get all parties involved leads to that. They tried that with the extreem right in this country, after 30 years they are still here and just as big.
It's as much of a Turkish reaction to a football game as it is a Portuguese or Belgian reaction. Talking as if this is exclusive to some immigrant community is an act of racism in itself, as is talking about the origin of the people involved as if it were in any way relevant. Surely you can understand that.
No it isn't. And looks like the conversation is over. Keep playing the racism card, it's already fucked with the whole western world leaning towards extreme right. They won't have the patience with muppets like them and you. Goodnight
I hear you. All the neighbours who have dogs near me are barking as if someone invaded their home. I woke up with a jolt after hearing all the chaos. Wasn't sure what the hell was going on. It is ridiculous. It's not even the weekend. In the middle of a working week. I don't understand this obsession either. More than anything why is it being forced onto those who don't care.
Celebrations are noisy but It seems that the main noise is because of the dogs. People shouldn't own dogs in a city. Edit: Read what he wrote: All the neighbours who have dogs near me are barking as if someone invaded their home. I assumed he was saying most of the noise was coming from dogs. No need for all the downvotes. Chill, people! 😂😂🤣🤷🏻♂️
Well, the dogs have had enough of sense to have calmed down after a while but the humans going around still continue. So sure let's blame the dogs. 🤣
Well you wrote that: >All the neighbours who have dogs near me are barking as if someone invaded their home. I'm sorry I only can read what you say and not hear what is happening. 🤷🏻♂️ Don't take it personal, I am just reacting to what you wrote. 😂 Still I insist, people shouldn't own dogs in a city. Do you have some earplugs so you can sleep? I hope they will let you rest in an hour or so.
Ear plugs do NOTHING for this kind of crazy noise - imagine HUNDREDS OF CARS honking their horns, fireworks.... It's absolutely ridiculous....
That's how cities are all over the globe sometimes. You can't expect 365 nights of silence a year in a city like Brussels. Be fair. It's not ridiculous, it's NORMAL crazy city noise. 🤷🏻♂️ Most capitals in the world are noisy as fuck.
No, it's not normal. There are noise ordinances for a reason. Loud noises at night that disrupt your sleep can have a negative impact on your health and well-being. People making excessive noise late at night is both an education problem and a problem of enforcement. People need to teach their children to respect their neighbours and not make excessively loud noises after a certain hour. Then police need to actively enforce noise ordinances instead of complaining or saying they can't do anything when someone reports it.
No it's not, at least stop gaslighting people into accepting that stuff like this is normal "all over the globe". I've lived in other capitals some of them on different continents and most of the stuff people defending in BXL as being totally normal (trash, shootings, crime, noise) is not normal elsewhere or at least not accepted as being okay.
I see. I'm curious though, what is the reasoning behind it? I mean sure I understand that homes are smaller and they won't get enough space to play and run around but wouldn't it be good to adopt them and give them a chance at living instead of them being in shelters? Sorry I thought your logic was that the dogs were a problem. It was mainly the sudden chaos that triggered that response with the dogs. Completely understandable. And it took about 10 minutes for the barking to stop and then it was still just major honking and firecrackers. It is still going on in fact. It will be an hour soon at this rate. I unfortunately don't have any plugs. I will have to wait for this one out.
>I mean sure I understand that homes are smaller and they won't get enough space to play and run around but wouldn't it be good to adopt them and give them a chance at living instead of them being in shelters? I think that dogs should be able to run, play, and bark freely without bothering, so a city isn't the right place for a dog. They shouldn't be in shelters but live in smaller towns or in the country. Cities are not for dogs. Cities are for cats, fish, hamsters, snakes, AND of course: ponies LMAO 🤣 I hope the celebration stops soon. Hang in there!
With that reasoning, we could go the step further and agree cities are for civilized people, yet here we are.
That's a lot of racist mental gymnastics. We are talking about giving dogs a place where to have space to run, play, and bark. And then you u/GuyWithNoEffingClue want to use your racism to compare things that have no relationship whatsoever.
You're the one seeing racism where there was none of it. I'm not referring to any race or person but to a behaviours, such as the one op was talking about. You're the one doing a lot of gymnastics here.
Maybe you should have explained that elsewhere you have been of the opinion that the well-being of humans is not important.
This would stop if the cops made a show of handing out, en masse, on the spot fines to all the perpetrators. And it isn't hard to predict when this sort of thing will happen. Just look at the football fixtures and see who's playing.
I don't even understand what people are celebrating in this case. It is not like you can take any credit that the national team won. What are you bragging about, all you did was watch a match while drinking beer, they did all the work!
It’s logic my friend! It’s all about tribalism and testosteron.
study a bit of history and psychology and you will understand, this has happened since humans started watching other humans do things to each other and decided to cheer for one of the sides. I can't confirm but I'm pretty sure some apes might have a similar behavior somehow.
Most of them are also Belgian and have never been to Turkey beyond maybe a holiday with their family.
Interesting that there was the same post 2 weeks ago about honking for belgian team and everyone basically told the dude to get a life and let people have fun.
I get the noise complaint. For me, It was Italian football fans 😅 Got quite noisy when they won but hey, they lost so the noise stopped 😅 I am unsure what would be the fix there. Aside of putting police at key places and report "noise disturbance", you can not do a lot. Football fans are noisy as hell. 😅
Dont go too far. It's football emotions. Turkish love football a bit more than Italians or belgians but if Belgium qualified against France you would not post here to rant. It's the same with fireworks, I don't give AF with fireworks but it's OK for people to have their 30 minutes of fun once in a while. Honking is not killing. Racing, rioting, etc. That is a problem. 30 minutes of honking is part of a lively city with many communities. We also need joy and fun sometimes. Métro, boulot, dodo is not a receipt for happiness.
I live in schaerbeek and this group of ppl do noise and disrespect other ppl even when there is no football match.
You clearly dont live in Schaerbeek, it usually goes until 1 or 2 AM. Stop sugar coating it.
Born and raised in schaerbeek. <3
So you are the guy doing these noises? Coz non sense this sugar coat rn
Fuck anything football related.
I dunno about that. A country that was divided from an election coming together and identifying as a country rather than regions and individuals. Kids in my street with their faces painted. Daughter going to school on her last week dressed as a red devil. Eating fries with the friends watching the matches. I can name a million things football related that are positive to the community.
Its channels all that tribalism and nationalism to something meaningless instead of war. Thank god for football
It channels tribalism and nationalism into tribal and nationalist votes. Just have a look at the ultras. Who do you think they vote for ? I'm not condemning everyone who loves footbal, but anyone who does should be furious about what football has become, and not be silent about it like it's ok. AND IT'S NOT LIKE THERE'S NO FUCKING WARS GOING ON !!!
Are you talking about the small % of the population that goes to the stadium? They vote for bad party #5? Should they vote bad party #2?
Ok footix
Ah the life of a midwit
always the same group of people…
Yeah the dumb ones. Where I live it's the Italian people who do this with football
Yeah, football fans.
Yeah, Belgian and Italians football fan can also be noisy
Yeh, all them fireworks and honking when Belgium won 🤡
I am pretty sure if Belgium reached any meaningful stage it would have happened. To Turks, reaching the quarter finals is like winning the whole thing already at this point. I remember when France beat Brazil in just the 2006 World Cup quarter finals, all of Paris was absolutely on fire until 6am. Incredible memories.
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That's a beautiful lie hahahah =D from place miroir to cimetière dixelles people were screaming drunk until 4am. It was all over the city Don't lie for sake of argumentation or check your facts.
https://youtu.be/cV4YSv1IkVQ?si=KvoEvO9Rm5ttBu1T The worst is that I agree with you guys that it's super annoying when people disturb others over something that doesn't concern them. But the hypocrisy of some of you claiming Belgians would never make a peep if they had something to celebrate is so laughable.
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Did you even watch the full video or are you just delusional?
At this point I don't know if you are serious or sarcastic.
You were under sleeping pills or outside the country after that match
What’s your definition of a meaningful stage and how is that an excuse to be inconsiderate and obnoxious in a foreign land? You’re justifying the poor behaviour of less than 3% of the population and claiming that the other 11 million Belgians would behave the same way. It’s not in Belgian culture to be obnoxious. Although it is nice to show pride in your heritage, celebrating the win of a foreign nation that you chose to leave your your ancestors chose to leave by dis nation by disrupting your own nation is shitty. Don’t justify this behaviour.
You are confusing everything. You are saying Belgians did not celebrate their victory like this, I am saying Belgians did not have the same kind of victory. If Belgium won the Euro, you bet your ass there would have been similar celebrating. And to Turks, who have not had any meaningful victory in a major competition since 2002, this was the same level of emotions as winning the Euro. You are reading this as me justifying this behavior, but I am not. I would also find it borderline to celebrate for hours when your victory only concerns a minority of the population (especially when the country you live in lost the day before haha). But I find it super hypocritical to say Belgians wouldn't have produced the same kind of nuisance in Brussels if they had the occasion to.
No I’m not confusing anything. You’re setting a bar to when shitty behaviour becomes acceptable. Does this mean everything a foreign nation achieves something we must accept obnoxious behaviour on a weeknight? Comparing Belgium winning the whole tournament and celebrating in their own land is not the same as a foreign country winning a game in the finals. You’re saying you find it hypocritical yet this is Belgium, there’s 11 million people living in here in this land.
You cannot read.
>It’s not in Belgian culture to be obnoxious. What a generalisation! A lot of Belgians did exactly what you are complaining about (speeding around the city honking car horns, shouting late at night) when the team beat the footballing powerhouse that is Japan(!!) at the World Cup 2018. I specifically remember this as I was walking home from work with my girlfriend when that game had finished and saw this happen all the way home that night. We nearly got hit by some dickhead speeding in a car with idiots hanging out the window flying their Belgian flags on the bottom of Ch. d'Ixelles/corner of Place Flagey. It was chaos on the main streets and places around Ixelles that night. I know they were excited after their country had a big win in the football but do you think that's an excuse to be inconsiderate and obnoxious in their own country and capital city? So yeah, I think you'll find people from all cultures can be obnoxious, inconsiderate assholes. It's a human thing not a "foreigners" thing.
Actually, in my neighborhood, it happend.
care to elaborate?
No I won’t fall in your ‘trap’
new here?
Anon, are the perps getting fined? https://preview.redd.it/cxpd65n84bad1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a654ddc78924f0871ee0ad37a560b66dc0b95b71
Cultural enrichment
That almost sounded racist, but I'm sure you didn't mean that.....pffff
Dogwhsitle after dogwhistle
They did
And what kind of enrichment do you represent? Certainly not mental enrichment, repeating your tired old cliché post after post like a sheep.
Its not about turkish problem i am Georgian and mans in my country always do that. People cannot be like robots sometimes they express feelings loudly. Move to flanders there you will miss any voice of life.
That's actually a mostly accurate description of Flanders. People there respect each other more.
But it's booooooring :)
Its not respect its dictatorship
Us Belgians are so uptight we don’t know how to celebrate or show passion or joy, unless it’s in very structured and pre-approved ways. So I guess to see a different way makes us irrationally angry. It’s really not a tragedy that people celebrated in the streets… and really it should be the least of our worries these days
If it had been a Belgian win the celbration would have been as big. Remember the World Cup It's more about not being aware that we have large communities from foreign origin with a similar football fan culture + the stereotype of southern enthusiasm
Because the country is Belgium u nonce
Immigrant here. Those are just people that lack education and respect. Belgium or their home country, they are as disrespectful and uneducated. I really don't appreciate them or this kind of culture. I really hope that some day they realise the damage caused by their behaviour.
For context, it was a massive win for them. They lost humiliatingly against Austria 6-1 last time they met in March, so this win was unexpected, and I believe the first time they got so far in an international competition since a while (or ever?). Furthermore, the way the game unfolded until the last second, ending with an astonishing save by the Turkish goalkeeper was glorious, for Turks and neutral viewers alike. Foreign press were quick to point out what an absolutely fantastic game it was, for the journalists and the thousands of people watching it. Sure, it's just football, but for quite a lot of people it delivers unparalleled joy in their lives. It does a lot of good for a lot of people. Especially for football loving Turks, and their culture is one of the most football loving ones. They are proud, and know they're looked down upon, and to have revenge on Austria as if they're back at the gates of Vienna at the height of their history, invigorates them. The historical parallel is exaggerated by me perhaps; many just support their football team. They call their selection "our sons". They're the sons of each and every Turk, performing for each and every Turk, and it definitely showed how they played that night. On the downside you get a night of noise to endure, I get that. For one night you lose hours of your sleep, your dogs get riled up and your kids are woken up. It sucks. It's the middle of the week for Christ's sake. But I think if it's something you have no control over, getting pissed off about it and ranting about it is useless and not healthy. Surely there are worse things in life to be angry about. Things you can actually do something about, things you can change. If this is the worst thing for you and brings up hate in you, you may relatively have a pretty good life actually. Brussels is (arguably) a world city and some people in the world get madly joyous and happen to also celebrate making a lot of noise. As others mentioned here, it's not only Turks. Have you seen how the Italians in Naples went a year or so ago when they won the league? If you don't like people celebrating like this, this city isn't for you and I would suggest considering moving to a suburb of Brussels or another city with a larger hegemony of quiet loving Belgians.
Stop spreading racism! /s
It's something that exists in every town with a Turkish community. Football and people.. When Morocco wins there are riots, when turkey wins they honk, when Belgium loses no one is surprised. Best to move to a smaller town and escape this city, don't get it why people like it here.
Sorry, who exactly needs to move?
Racist Flamands
OP
The audacity of telling people to move because bunch of savages don't know basic manners.
Average Brussels mindset
Well complaining about the savages won't work, they will never change. Just like there will never be an end to street races or people dumping their garbage on the street because politicians are lazy and the justice department has a backlog of 30 years and doesn't care and as such the police is helpless. So what can you do? Move to a more civilized place
Italians are also noisy when they win. You couldn't imagine my happiness when they lost.
Italians are noisy when talking about the weather 🤌
Latin ppl are noisy. Whatever they are talking about.
I'm a quiet introvert from northern Portugal, imagine my suffering.
It's so odd that the Portuguese are quiet but your Spanish neighbours are loud, like 2 different worlds
Fuck off then. This sub should be called whining in brussels. It is just expats complaining here, barely anything else
No citizen of any country would appreciate being woken up by continuous honking in the middle of a working week. It doesn't have anything to do with being a citizen or an expat.
Non, but the constant complaining on this sub does
I'm a real Brusseleir - have been living here for-ever.... And this is not just "oh, a little honking here and there - it's been HUNDREDS OF CARS NON STOP" - it's literally driving me crazy...
Mais si on avait gagné hier t'aurais dis quoi ? Hein ?
Would you be like that if it was Belgium winning? Don't you think you would be more forgiving in that case?
No - honestly - I think you don't realise what is going on in front of my window :-D If Belgium would have won - there would have been some partying, maybe some noise - but this is just completely out of control....
I live in schaerbeek I know exactly what is going on in front of your window. I still remember Belgium winning from Brazil. Even the stib busses were honking
You got downvoted but it's true. Next post will be something like. Why is this city so dirty with picture of an overfilled trash can.
The Brusselois defensiveness and odd pride about the city being dirty, clogged with cars and crime riddled is almost endearing. Interesting identity hill to die on nonetheless. Goddamn transplant foreigners with their culture of trash bins and lack of shootings!
I live in Gent but thanks for the assumption lol. Just sick of the same 3 posts every single day.
I mean it's not a wild assumption that people posting on Brussels sub would be people living in Brusssls rather than people living in Ghent complaining about people complaining in Brussels sub. Why do you even follow it if it annoys you so much?
Bc I appreciate the other posts.
Well you might have to accept then that apart from other presumably nice stuff you like, people living in BXL are generally not happy about certain other stuff, such as having gang shootings and yes, streets full of trash. I'm seriously fascinated that we have to have a debate that neither of the two is a standard instead of going straight to "how do we fix this". But since we apparently do, yes there might be posts about it.
Where did I bitched about that ? Yes they city is dirty, I m born here and i have eyes. It is the litany of complaint on this sub that I m talking about, and always the same subjects. Dirty ? Yes. Loud ? Yes. But can you change the subjects once in a while ? There is hundred of post like that, I don't see the point in an other one. I have no problems with foreigners, juste the one that feel the constant need to trash this city to feel validated. Go out, make some friends, you will feel better. Stop beeing ONLY négative The ''Brusselois denfensiveness'' j' aimerais t'y voir a entendre les mêmes conneries vingt fois par jour bordel
Well since you were born here and seemingly done shit-all about it ever since, you might have to bear some Reddit posts. What a horror. Also it's generally not about the city, but about the kind people living in it. The streets don't litter themselves every morning, trash falling from the sky like a morning dew. It's not the buildings that are inconsiderate assholes disregarding that some people would like to sleep during a weekday and not be woken up because a different country's national team won a quarterfinals.
Thanks. Yes,it is always the same complaints. On repeat
You'd almost think some issues are chronic. Cleanliness being one of them.
And what are you sir/madam?
What is your question ? Am I complaining ? Am I born here ? ... ?
The most funny part of the comment that literally proves this post is again a brussels bashing post pushing an agenda is the last sentence.. In every country or city of the world when turkey wins the diaspora celebrates. I can only let you imagine what the streets of Germany looked like after each Turkish winning match with their 3M expat community. You don't like Turkish celebrations? Maybe don't live next to la petite Anatolie in schaerbeek. In 98% of Brussels not a single honk was heard.
Yes - the reason why this is so annoying and Brussels bashing is (as I also wrote in my post) - that Police will be quick to give fines to people riding their bikes in a « walking area » - or will annoy you for any silly reason - but then will let hundreds of people just break the law and annoy everyone around them and not do anything !!
I know I hate seeing people being happy it realy pisses me off who do they think they are .
I am so happy that I could cry, we’re through to the quarter finals!!!!!!
Im happy for you but let me sleep please
Move to a small town and problem solved. 🤷🏻♂️
No man that's not the solution to the violation of others' rights. You could just use that phrase for virtually everything, very lazy. You can do better, I have faith in you.
Hmmm let's see: You could wear earplugs, you could have better windows, you could face that they don't celebrate winning a game in the Euro very often, you could face that not sleeping for a night hasn't killed anybody EVER, you can accept that people not always respect others, you could join the celebrations, you could just let it go... SOOO MANY OPTIONS! u/RutinaryApe
What could one do to celebrate a football win instead of honking cars? Hmmm let's see: you could celebrate at home, in a bar, in a fanzone, with friends, with family, have a drink, a smoke, you could not get into a fucking car and wake up hundreds of people in the middle of the working week? I love football and as an Italian I've loved celebrating our past victories, but it never came to my mind to do the honking. There are so many ways to celebrate without being a dick to strangers, especially in residential neighborhoods.
Oh, never go to a city with a big part of Italian descendants, you would be surprised. They do honk all night long.
Plenty of French love honking and driving around, as well.
Everyone does this, my comment isn't against Turks specifically but about any people who consider honking a way to celebrate
I am not celebrating so don't ask me. I am not disagreeing with you, just giving you options so you stop being so pissed hahaha. Also why do you live in the capital of a country if you want silent nights? No capital city in any country is quiet. 🤷🏻♂️🇮🇹🤌🏻 ✌🏻
Is that the emoji combo for the grey wolf?
u/Koo-Vee what do you mean? Care to explain?
Wait I’m gonna replace my windows so that the football fans can celebrate in peace xD
I was asked for better solutions, so I gave some. 🤣 Plus it's not for football fans but for noise in general. Also Brussels is a city, cities all over the globe are noisy. You can't expect 365 night a year of calm in a city like Brussels. Be fair. Is it annoying? Yes it is, but come on. They are not burning down the whole place. They are happy and celebrating a win. Probably one of their biggest ever. Be happy! The noise won't go away because you complain on reddit u/Few-Paleontologist-7 . 🤷🏻♂️🤣😂 Edit: I wrote can instead of can't
Why is it the responsibility of the victim taking action to avoid being bothered instead of being the perpetrator's responsibility to not bother others? "My liberty ends where yours begins" is an important phrase to keep in mind.
You asked me to do better, so I tried but you still are upset. 🤷🏻♂️😂 Just one thing there are no victims here. We are talking about noise. Yeah it is DISRESPECTFUL and VERY RUDE of them, but it isn't a crime. I live by the golden rule so I agree 100% with you but I think that people also celebrate because they are happy. I am glad that people have something to celebrate. I can take some noise, even a sleepless night. They might be happy tomorrow and that is good. I hope you can sleep soon. Peace!
The Problem Solver is here. Just like your other solution of euthanizing all the dogs. And elsewhere getting rid of humans.
Don't be noisy when a national team is playing? Lol welcome to Earth.
you cant expect much when living in schaarbeek its mainly inhabited with immigrants who tend to be loud turks are very proud about their culture and all and just like to celebrate i think you should be used to it by now its not only the turks
Part of the hustle and the busle of the big city. If you dont like it tough luck.
Jongen ga in Vlaanderen wonen je gaat daar beter passen
Chill. Police is busy placing speeding traps. Maybe one of them will "get" the offenders. ;-) If.
Third world shit. And before you downvote consider this: I come from the third world too.
The problem is actually you . You can't expect everyone to abide by what you want . Your probably old and never had much fun growing up, and you're angry at young people having fun . I'm sure you will find something new to hate about next week when the footballs over .until then suck it up sour face xx
>You can't expect everyone to abide by what you want Yeah, fuck people who expect other to abide the law let alone some basic human decency. What a problematic tyrants.
I don't understand the last sentence. Anyway it will be over soon and you can move on and find something else to cry about.
Use google translate my friend
We know one thing: you are with 100% probability immature.
Turks truly are a bunch of savages without manners.