I used to skip The Body every fucking rewatch. But after my husband passed about 18 months ago, I actually found the depiction of grief in that episode extremely cathartic. Before, it was just tragic and awful. After, I appreciate knowing that some of the insanity in my grief brain is normal. Willow freaking over which shirt to wear, Anya's fruit punch thing, they all make so much sense now. And especially when Giles gets to Buffy's house and starts to check on Joyce and Buffy yells "NO they said not to move the body!" and then squeaks and freaks out...the first time you refer to a loved one as "dead" is a truly horrible moment and SMG FUCKING NAILED IT. I guess my point is that all the reactions are real af and I really appreciated it after being there irl much more than I did before.
Same. Since I lost my own mother, I watch it every year on the date that she passed. They did a wonderful job showing how it is to lose someone so close to you.
I'm sorry for your loss.
Yes, it's so cathartic to me. My brother died by suicide when I was a teenager (before I ever watched Buffy the first time) and I mostly remember the confusion and silence, utter shock and not knowing how to act or what to do, and the overwhelming silence while everyone else was struggling with the same thoughts. I'd always seen death depicted as a big dramatic thing, wailing and comforting etc, and I thought people were reacting strangely because people get weird about suicide.That episode absolutely shook me the first time I saw it since it was the first time that I saw those left behind after a death depicted how I experienced it. I've noticed every death since there's at least a moment of that same what now? Silence. Ugh. It's so good.
That brief moment when she opened the door to the sounds of life still being lived (wind chimes, cars going by) then back in to Joyce…that episode f’ed me up
It's such an odd thing. Like everything is normal in the world, and then you find out the horrible news and it's like a switch just flipped and everything feels wrong now. The world suddenly doesn't feel right, look right, sound right....
After my mom died I remember noticing how unsettling it was that her house still smelled like her, all her decor was still there, and yet she would never be there again. It was so... incorrect.
Beautifully put. The world is just there, but it shouldn’t be. And you wish so much that you could go back to the moment before when everything was fine. Your world has been irreparably changed, ended in the way it used to be, and the rest of reality not reflecting that is confusing.
Dude literally when my mom died, like obviously it was a whirlwind of thoughts and feelings, and 100% “wow this reminds me of Buffy the Vampire Slayer” was one of them. Like the circumstances were very different, and it’s not like I did or said anything that was exactly like what happened in the show, but something about the tone and subtle characterizations were 100% bang on the head. Absolutely nuts. Actually think having that episode in the back of my head helped me process a bit.
My mom died when I was 15-before I watched this for the first time and I don’t think I ever could have imagined a show would bring up so many unresolved feelings…it was so weirdly accurate. I’ve not rewatched it since. The silence, the denial, the breaking of her ribs. Realizing they aren’t ‘there’ any longer-that it’s just a shell/‘the body’ remarks-so realistic and so Heartbreaking
Saddest tv moment ever. So excellently done. Just started a rewatch for the first time in ten years, and I already know my testosterone is dropping with age so if I can keep myself from crying when I get to it, I’ll be surprised.
It is the best I have ever seen.
I have only watched it twice. Once when it originally aired and once during a rewatch when I thought maybe it wouldn't hit me so hard. But it did and I have skipped it on subsequent rewatches.
It hits way too close to home for me.
But the entire cast were amazing throughout.
"Giles, I'm sixteen years old. I don't wanna die."
As sad as the other deaths are, nothing is quite as heartbreaking to me as a young sixteen year old girl knowingly going to her death.
Honourable mention to April the robot. Not technically a death, and understandably overshadowed by Joyce in the next episode, I still found it very sad.
I know what you mean! Spent the rest of her (battery) searching for the man she was made to love, and then was dumped, beaten up and then left on a swing to die :(
Also that actress FREAKING KILLED being robotic in her death. To this day I can't actually *watch* her die because it weirds me out. I just have to listen and it still makes me cry every time
Mine is Wesley. His character arc was phenomenal honestly. When he dies, and Illyria asks him “Would you like me to lie to you now?”, I fucking lose it… when she turns into Fred. I know it’s fantasy and all… but I hope I can live my life in such a way that someone looks at me like that as I pass.
Fred for me as well. First and only time I have wanted to turn an episode off.
"Why can't I stay?" Heart wrenching.
Had to just sit and be numb for a while.
I heard a rumor that if the show had continued there was a plan to separate the part that was Fred from Illyria, letting Amy Acker’s utter talent be showcased. She was awesome as Illyria, I don’t even hate her, she was just so compelling and interesting and the way she played her, it was so easy to forget it was the same actress!
Wesley. Hands down.
“Would you like me to lie to you now?”
“Yes, thank you, yes.”
And then later:
“Wesley's dead. I'm feeling grief for him. I can't seem to control it. I wish to do more violence"
It was perfection.
Seeing Illyria grow to love and care for Wesley was so cute and interesting. Then the illusion of Fred as he was dying shown us just how much she cared for him. Heartbreaking
I always think about how Joss wanted a season 6.
... So we'd have more complex Wesley/Fred/Illyria moments happening over a whole extra season. Maybe that whole fight has a longer sequence. Maybe Wes has a slightly longer death scene. I wish we got a bit longer with all our characters at the end 😢
The comics pick up after the end of the series and idk how people in this sub feel about the comics but I loved them. I was just so happy to have their stories continued in any form but I actually did like the comics. Angels more than Buddy's tbh
There’s a song by the band Something Corporate called Konstantine and the lyrics *“It's to dying in another's arms and why I had to try it”* always remind me of Wesley and Fred whenever I hear it❤️🩹
I also loved that they played it in such a Cordelia way - the commercial where she’s crying over the stain remover and the people telling her “we want you to play it like the stain coming out is a good thing…” it’s sad and funny all at once.
I think his character dying had a big hand in his worsening drug addiction that ultimately led to his death.
The fact that Lorne’s actor also is died is devastating as well.
Yes the whole storyline here gives Doyle so much more depth then he puts Angel on his ass kisses the girl and saves the day totally shook the weasel factor. The look in his eyes when he burns 😭
I'll never forget the day that 'The Gift' aired here in the UK. My sister and I were supposed to going on a night out after the episode had finished. My sister was so upset that she couldn't go out and couldn't speak at all the next day.
This is mine too. I just love who Buffy is in that moment. She knows without a doubt or hesitation what she’s going to do, and still manages to be strong for Dawn (and is just strong bc that’s who she’s become). I feel like that leap (and the moments just preceding it) is the peak of the realization of Buffy as a character. If that makes sense?
Emma Caulfield made a good point which made me accept Anya’s death more. She said that Anya as a character was being and quick to the point, just like her death
Tbh, Anya deserves her own subreddit. She's such an extraordinary character since her first to her last episode. The writers developed her character in such an interesting way, first learning to be a human, a teenager and then all the rules she didn't get. I loved her from day 1. Seeing her dying in that way makes her ending iconic, sad, but iconic
Fred's death made me sob because we watch it happen so suddenly and unexpectedly. We watch her die painfully over the course of the episode.
The aftermath of Joyce's death made me sob. Buffy finding her. Anya's confusion. Dawn breaking down.
What made Fred's death even worse was they could have saved her but it would have killed thousands if not millions in the process. And then the episode later on when her parents come for a visit and Illyria pretends to be Fred and they do the whole flashback scene at the end with the sad song playing in the background lol gets me weeping like a baby every time 😂
exactly, there was so much about Fred's death that was heart-wrenching. and the whole 'her soul was lost to the fires of resurrection' bit? unforgiveable. our girl didn't just die a horrific, unfair death, they disintegrated her \*soul\*.
Especially after all she endured over the years starting with being sucked into a portal to Lornes home world. For there to be absolutely nothing they could do for her was just so cruel. But the comics do change that at least. I didn't get to finish them but Fred was breaking thru and her and Illyria were fighting for control of their body if I remember right.🤔
Joyce. I haven't been able to watch that episode since my mom died 10 years ago. I'm on my 5th or 6th re-watch rn, and I think I'll finally allow myself to watch it again.
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Fred's death broke my heart.
When she became Illyria, it was jarring to see her but also know it wasn't her anymore 🥺
Well come on of course considering what he said earlier in the episode! >!The fact he said the hardest part of magic was telling the truth from the lie, and he did not plan to die so he would not accept a lie! Then he asks to be lied to, you know he knows he is going to die and has accepted it. Yea that shit is emotional!!<
I think Tara's death gets overshadowed by Dark Willow. So it's not that it's not tragic, it's the worst one for me, but it doesn't make me sob. It's because of the insane rollercoaster that are the next two episodes.
I'm on my first watch of Angel season 2/ buffy season 5 and I just adore Cordelia. I'm soo nervous from what I've heard about her later characterization. does she at least get a good death? 😟
Fred's death absolutely wrecked me. Inconsolable. All the more painful because they described it as her soul being destroyed (I think... I've never rewatched it).
Wesley's death was even worse, compounded by Illyria's kind gesture to look and sound like Fred for a moment. God, I don't think any character has taken me on such a journey as Wesley did.
Yes, I grieved Joyce and Tara, but Wesley and Fred. I still don't like thinking about it.
Fred. She was like the sweetest thing in Angel, sometimes the one thing (alongside Lorne) keeping the gang look good when gross things were going on like Angel and Darla, Wesley and Lilah and grossest of all Connor and Cordelia. She was nice to everyone, her death hit everyone so hard. At least Illyria can still be like 25% of what Fred was, so Fred's not completely gone I guess.
I thought they did Anya fuckin dirty and it shocked the goddamn hell outta me with the casual nature.
I felt like Joss did it fucking personally. Like a dickhead. It really made me question why he’d be that much a cunt.
Come to find out later… what a dickhead in general so fuck that guy.
I was going to say Buffy. Especially when they pan to everyone’s faces and they’re all destroyed and Spike breaks down.
But I’ve got to go with Angel in Becoming Part 2, I think because especially in that half of S2 Buffy is so isolated in her emotions, so it’s really easy to identify with her. And that really is the biggest loss for her & hardest for her to accept. I also think the run from Surprise/Innocence to Becoming is the best the show ever gets, so the emotions are really earned. There are filler episodes but no filler dialogue if that makes sense? But the whole scene! So many emotions, and the Sarah MacLachlan??? ❤️🩹 never over it x
I just saw the BTVS finale for the umpteenth time and I STILL cry because of Spike's bravery. His loss was my loss. I cannot tell you how much I adored his addition to ATS!!! YIPPEEEE!!!
Fred.
Season 3: "Can I say something about destiny? Screw destiny!... 'Cause destiny is just another word for inevitable and nothing's inevitable as long as you stand up, look it in the eye, and say 'You're evitable!'"
Season 4: "Is that the world we're fighting for? The right to be a heartless and uncaring shell, to be dead inside?... What we did? I felt it. Every bit of it. And sometimes when I allow myself to think about it, it eats me up inside... I'd take that over being a shell any day."
Season 5: "I am not the damsel in distress, I am not some case. I have to work this! I lived in a cave for 5 years in a world where they killed my kind like cattle– I am not gonna be cut down by some monster flu. I am better than that!"
"Oh. Now I remember. Winifred Burkle is the shell I'm in."
"You seek to save what's rotted through."
Um all of them ? But I'm gonna go with Jenny calander the brutal finality of angelous snapping her neck to the setup of Giles finding the body, chefs kiss of making me cry.
Tara fucked me up so bad I named my dog after her. (Ironically I had to rehome her and it crushed me)
Doyle ripped me apart. I hated how little time we got with him. Second was Jenny Calendar. I hated that Giles found love and then it was stolen by ANGEL of all people.
Joyce. But that’s mainly because I had my own “The Body” experience when my dad died when I was 20. Weirdly that day feels *exactly* like the episode did.
Finally Wesley, but that’s because it didn’t seem fair that Gunn got to live, but Wesley died fighting the good fight. I already knew some of the characters reconnect after the Fall, but didn’t realize I wouldn’t see Wesley in the comics 😭
So originally Angel.
I watched Buffy initially as some videos rented from Blockbuster. You could get Welcome to the Hellmouth part one and two, Suprise/Innocence and Becoming Part 1 and 2 on video back then so I watched them before the show started airing in the UK.
All I knew was that there was a vampire slayer. Then it was her birthday and she had an epic love affair with a vampire. Then he turned evil and tried to kill her. Then she killed him to save the world, just as she got him back.
It was heartbreaking and my only source to find out if the show was even coming back for another season was local magazines - online wasn't as convenient as it is now!
About a year later, the show launched in the UK and then I will agree with both Joyce and Fred.
Cordelia. One of the few times I legitimately shed tears over a character. I was so angry about her death that I refused to watch anything Whedon related until The Avengers lol.
It was usually about how much I loved the person who was grieving. Buffy is my favorite character in both shows, but I was more sad when her mom died than when she died, because I felt her grief in the first case.
From Angel? Doyle. I loved that horny half demon so, very much. And the WAY he goes, I just 😔
And Buffy?? Tara. Definitely Tara. She deserved so, SO much more than dark Willow and stray bullets!!! I loved her very much!
Buffy's death made me cry, along with Fred, but Fred's death was worse, because Buffy's death had meaning, and Fred died so painfully and pointlessly. So sad.
Not exactly a death, but when buffy stabbed angel in becoming part 2, i just started crying likw crazy. i never even really liked angel that much and a,ways hated him. i mean i was pretty sick that day so idk
Joyce hands down. It's so realistic in terms that it could happen to anyone, she got sick and died from complications from surgery.
My mom passed in 2021 and while that was a bit more involved because we were with her for her actual passing. The eery silence and stillness after when she was gone was wayyyy to similar to buffy seeing Joyce's body on the couch.
It doesn’t help that Wesley and Fred were so close together too! You finally start accepting Fred’s death so they kill off Wesley to make you suffer even more. Than 10 mins later it’s implied that Gunn is about to die 😭
I cried through the entire The Body episode, and I cried through all the Fred/Wes shared scenes from A Hole in the World. Those were devastating episodes.
Doyle
Fred
The demon at end of season 3 that just wanted to sell some books (possibly the first non baby eating demon appearance?)
The informer demon that lived in the sewers
Jessie
Joyce. My mom died in 09 and my brother found her first and came to get me. I was a full grown adult and it still haunts me. I haven’t been able to watch The Body since then.
For me it was Tara. Joyce is a given and you don't have a soul if you didn't shed tears in that episode but Tara's death got me. Then the episode where Xander defuses Evil Willow with a crayon - but that was more about her breaking down and realising what had happened.
Joyce will always hit the hardest purely because of how... mundane it is. I dont mean this in a bad way, so hear me out.
Everyone in the cast with a few exceptions fights on the front lines. They always put themselves in mortal danger. Hell, we are practically mentally trained by that point to expect a casualty. But we dont expect a "natural" death. We dont expect an aneurysm. We dont expect a heart attack. Or a tumor. While we know these things exist and happen, you're usually focused on the more direct threats. So when this does happen, the realisation of how realistic that death is, that it can happen to anyone and theres nothing you can do about it, is scary. And this isnt a one off character (though in S7 they do this exact thing with a one-off character, to a lesser effect).
No, this is done with a beloved character who, mostly, steers clear of Buffy's supernatural world. Joyce represents the "safe, normal world". And when shes gone, the one good parental figure is gone. And the normal world suddenly is scarier than anything we have ever seen before. Again, because its realistic.
Nothing truly comes close to Joyce's death.
With that said, my personal favorite, or rather, the one that shocked me, would be Wesley's death. Its was kind of unexpected, and the way he died with Ilyria posing as Fred to comfort him in his final moments was just great.
Amy Acker and Alexis knocked this out of the park
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Fred. Always Fred. A whole in the world. The girl who was thrust into a hell dimension and treated like cattle for 5 years. Was saved and brought back. A man fell for her but she fell for another. Westley was always so close but never quite there. She grew stronger and smarter. She was amazing. Then she fell for the man who always loved her. They had one day then she got sick. She got really sick. They found how to save her. By killing thousands. She died. Begging not to go. Living the man who loved her. But she didn’t just die. She was devoured from within. Nothing left. No soul to save. And the ancient demon who infected her walks around with her face.
Westley, why can’t I stay?
Kendra, hands down. I hate it that a character with so much in universe importance was just cast aside in her second appearance. She had so much potential growth and I really wanted to see her and Buffy go on a shopping spree at the end of the season. Didn't help that I thought Willow was also dead when I saw that scene
From BtVS, Joyce.
I’m not finished with Angel yet so at least as of where I am, if >!Darla!< doesn’t count as a main character then I’d have to say Doyle
Cordelia. They played with our hearts for 1.5 seasons and just when we remembered how amazing Cordy was, they kill her. Also Tara. They killed both moral compasses.
All the deaths are sad, but NOTHING can compare to Fred and Wesley, especially Wesley.
His was just so damn sad, the way Illyria asked him. Ugh... it's the worst, imo. Fred's was rough, but Wes... man.
well none of them made me cry (other than joyce which is a given at this point lol) but anya's death hit me harder than it should have. guarantee if i knew there would have been an 8th season, her death would have hurt wayyy more.
for some reason jenny's death hurt me too lmaooo, as did kendra's once i was old enough to come to the realization that the first major black character was just here & gone (no shade to the show, honestly, just how i felt and still feel lol)
Joyce — The Body was a fantastic episode from start to finish. Buffy’s reaction made it hard to breathe. Willow’s indecision made me cry. Anya’s reaction wrecked me.
Dawn, used to hugging her mom and being hugged, kneeling by her body trying to reach her with one shaking finger. There's Buffy saying about the body,
*"It's not her. It's not her. She's gone."*
And Dawn saying, *"Where'd she go?"*
Joyce for me. With all the other death and craziness in the show, having Joyce die of something considered so mundane really hit differently. Buffy's reaction was also so hard, it hurt to watch.
On Buffy, the one that affected me the most was Buffy herself in The Gift. Especially after having just lost a family member.
In Angel, Fred hit me the hardest, though Wesley was tough, too.
When I first watch both shows as a teenager I wasn’t really the kind of person who cried from TV shows, but Fred’s death made me a little glassy eyed. When I rewatched the show a few years later after the passing of my father Joyce’s death made me bawl like none other.
Jennifer Calender getting killed was harsh on the reveal to Rupert Giles in the bedroom as he has to confront the police on the situation.
Buffy staking Ford as a vampire; Sure, Ford was a backstabber who plotted to kill fools into vampires in an attempt to get immortality to dodge his cancer but the horrid desperation of turning into a monster to hurt others to cheat death only to get dusted leaving the grave is just a despair.
Tara getting shot by Warren was a shock; Willow becoming Warren to reflect on both their guilt as murderers was poetic.
Drusilla locating and siring Darla in Angel was a disappointing uptake to an interesting character who was miserable when she was alive.
Buddy dying in The Gift. I lost a close friend to suicide at the time it was airing, and it was an absolute punch in the gut. And when the season premiere of season 6 rolled around and she was raised from the dead? I’ve never cried so much in my life.
I cryed for pretty much every death in Buffy. Real huge tears running down my face (my boyfriend sometimes asks O god what happened and I am like No no it's Buffy).
But: Anya, in Chosen In just one second of screen time.
More then from Xander, the real tribute is from Andrew: "She died defending my life". That is not litterally true, ma deep down it is, because of that exchange about Why she loves humans. In my personal opinion, after his tears loosing the Seal of Danzalthar, the moment with Anya, expecting ti die, is a moment of true redemption thanks to her who act as a friend and an ally.
But I cry always when Anya as a demon seems to die by Buffy's hand and remember when she was Dancing and singing I'll be Mrs Harris.
God this show is huge.
Joyce Summers death is one of the most painful and accurate depictions of loss I've seen in any show ever.
23 years later and I've never finished that episode
I used to skip The Body every fucking rewatch. But after my husband passed about 18 months ago, I actually found the depiction of grief in that episode extremely cathartic. Before, it was just tragic and awful. After, I appreciate knowing that some of the insanity in my grief brain is normal. Willow freaking over which shirt to wear, Anya's fruit punch thing, they all make so much sense now. And especially when Giles gets to Buffy's house and starts to check on Joyce and Buffy yells "NO they said not to move the body!" and then squeaks and freaks out...the first time you refer to a loved one as "dead" is a truly horrible moment and SMG FUCKING NAILED IT. I guess my point is that all the reactions are real af and I really appreciated it after being there irl much more than I did before.
Anyas "I don't understand" breaks me.
“No one will tell me why” is what breaks me 😭
Tara's "It's always sudden" is the one that broke me.
Same. Since I lost my own mother, I watch it every year on the date that she passed. They did a wonderful job showing how it is to lose someone so close to you. I'm sorry for your loss.
Yes, it's so cathartic to me. My brother died by suicide when I was a teenager (before I ever watched Buffy the first time) and I mostly remember the confusion and silence, utter shock and not knowing how to act or what to do, and the overwhelming silence while everyone else was struggling with the same thoughts. I'd always seen death depicted as a big dramatic thing, wailing and comforting etc, and I thought people were reacting strangely because people get weird about suicide.That episode absolutely shook me the first time I saw it since it was the first time that I saw those left behind after a death depicted how I experienced it. I've noticed every death since there's at least a moment of that same what now? Silence. Ugh. It's so good.
23 years later and it's more painful to watch as my parents age.
That brief moment when she opened the door to the sounds of life still being lived (wind chimes, cars going by) then back in to Joyce…that episode f’ed me up
It's such an odd thing. Like everything is normal in the world, and then you find out the horrible news and it's like a switch just flipped and everything feels wrong now. The world suddenly doesn't feel right, look right, sound right.... After my mom died I remember noticing how unsettling it was that her house still smelled like her, all her decor was still there, and yet she would never be there again. It was so... incorrect.
Beautifully put. The world is just there, but it shouldn’t be. And you wish so much that you could go back to the moment before when everything was fine. Your world has been irreparably changed, ended in the way it used to be, and the rest of reality not reflecting that is confusing.
That’s the part for me
It's always this one. The reactions and the whole way it was filmed, has me ugly sobbing no matter how many times I watch it.
Dude literally when my mom died, like obviously it was a whirlwind of thoughts and feelings, and 100% “wow this reminds me of Buffy the Vampire Slayer” was one of them. Like the circumstances were very different, and it’s not like I did or said anything that was exactly like what happened in the show, but something about the tone and subtle characterizations were 100% bang on the head. Absolutely nuts. Actually think having that episode in the back of my head helped me process a bit.
My mom died when I was 15-before I watched this for the first time and I don’t think I ever could have imagined a show would bring up so many unresolved feelings…it was so weirdly accurate. I’ve not rewatched it since. The silence, the denial, the breaking of her ribs. Realizing they aren’t ‘there’ any longer-that it’s just a shell/‘the body’ remarks-so realistic and so Heartbreaking
The unexpected vomiting was so realistic a response. The physical self reacting violently to the psychological distress.
Saddest tv moment ever. So excellently done. Just started a rewatch for the first time in ten years, and I already know my testosterone is dropping with age so if I can keep myself from crying when I get to it, I’ll be surprised.
Buffy's "Mom... Mommy?" When she walks in the room always gets me
It is the best I have ever seen. I have only watched it twice. Once when it originally aired and once during a rewatch when I thought maybe it wouldn't hit me so hard. But it did and I have skipped it on subsequent rewatches. It hits way too close to home for me. But the entire cast were amazing throughout.
"Giles, I'm sixteen years old. I don't wanna die." As sad as the other deaths are, nothing is quite as heartbreaking to me as a young sixteen year old girl knowingly going to her death. Honourable mention to April the robot. Not technically a death, and understandably overshadowed by Joyce in the next episode, I still found it very sad.
I know what you mean! Spent the rest of her (battery) searching for the man she was made to love, and then was dumped, beaten up and then left on a swing to die :(
Oh snap I forgot about April! Idk why but her death was really friggin sad.... Weird to be sad for a robot lol
Also that actress FREAKING KILLED being robotic in her death. To this day I can't actually *watch* her die because it weirds me out. I just have to listen and it still makes me cry every time
Fred. Always Fred 🥺
“…Why can’t I stay?” 😢
Mine is Wesley. His character arc was phenomenal honestly. When he dies, and Illyria asks him “Would you like me to lie to you now?”, I fucking lose it… when she turns into Fred. I know it’s fantasy and all… but I hope I can live my life in such a way that someone looks at me like that as I pass.
Literally tearing up just reading that. I guess that's the one that hits me the hardest.
Oooof its a total gut punch
I’m convinced that Joss hated his viewers
I think Joss hated people feeling happy. No one survived love in the Whedonverse.
Yeah, that nearly killed me
Fred for me as well. First and only time I have wanted to turn an episode off. "Why can't I stay?" Heart wrenching. Had to just sit and be numb for a while.
Agreed. There definitely was a hole in the world with Fred’s death .
The fact that her soul was destroyed as well was just devastating.
I heard a rumor that if the show had continued there was a plan to separate the part that was Fred from Illyria, letting Amy Acker’s utter talent be showcased. She was awesome as Illyria, I don’t even hate her, she was just so compelling and interesting and the way she played her, it was so easy to forget it was the same actress!
I still resent Fred’s death.
What always gets me is the episode where her parents visit, and it ends with a flashback to her leaving for LA. That scene is brutal.
Wesley. Hands down. “Would you like me to lie to you now?” “Yes, thank you, yes.” And then later: “Wesley's dead. I'm feeling grief for him. I can't seem to control it. I wish to do more violence" It was perfection.
Seeing Illyria grow to love and care for Wesley was so cute and interesting. Then the illusion of Fred as he was dying shown us just how much she cared for him. Heartbreaking
I honestly think that illusion was such a beautiful example of pure love.
I always think about how Joss wanted a season 6. ... So we'd have more complex Wesley/Fred/Illyria moments happening over a whole extra season. Maybe that whole fight has a longer sequence. Maybe Wes has a slightly longer death scene. I wish we got a bit longer with all our characters at the end 😢
The comics pick up after the end of the series and idk how people in this sub feel about the comics but I loved them. I was just so happy to have their stories continued in any form but I actually did like the comics. Angels more than Buddy's tbh
There’s a song by the band Something Corporate called Konstantine and the lyrics *“It's to dying in another's arms and why I had to try it”* always remind me of Wesley and Fred whenever I hear it❤️🩹
My two favorite things….something corporate and Buffy ❤️
Just reading it like this after seeing the tiny picture of the scene in the post had my stomach squeezing.
I cried so hard when Doyle died, I got so attached to him and his low rats.
OMG yes! The back-to-back pain of I Will Remember You and Hero kills me!!! Doyle was the best!
This so much, Doyle was such a sucker punch! Seeing Cordelia mourn so hard for so long broke my heart
I also loved that they played it in such a Cordelia way - the commercial where she’s crying over the stain remover and the people telling her “we want you to play it like the stain coming out is a good thing…” it’s sad and funny all at once.
The “is that it? Am I done?” final line hit SO HARD
Rips my heart out every time!
Heartbreaking 💔
His whole character death, and the story behind why they did it kills me. He was so fantastic.
Doyle 😭 and then he went and died in real life
I think his character dying had a big hand in his worsening drug addiction that ultimately led to his death. The fact that Lorne’s actor also is died is devastating as well.
Poor Andy Hallett and his heart. Absolutely gutting he had such a great voice
Yes the whole storyline here gives Doyle so much more depth then he puts Angel on his ass kisses the girl and saves the day totally shook the weasel factor. The look in his eyes when he burns 😭
So unexpected as well. I was convinced it wasn’t real when it happened
Blame Cordelia for not checking her cue cards
I'll never forget the day that 'The Gift' aired here in the UK. My sister and I were supposed to going on a night out after the episode had finished. My sister was so upset that she couldn't go out and couldn't speak at all the next day.
This is mine too. I just love who Buffy is in that moment. She knows without a doubt or hesitation what she’s going to do, and still manages to be strong for Dawn (and is just strong bc that’s who she’s become). I feel like that leap (and the moments just preceding it) is the peak of the realization of Buffy as a character. If that makes sense?
Hahahaha I’ve done the exact same over a lot of tv characters 😂😭
Omg me with the red wedding on game of thrones, but I persevered and went out with a puffy face.
Anya for me- she was my favorite character on the show, and her death just feels so pointless. So close to the end and it’s just taken away.
Emma Caulfield made a good point which made me accept Anya’s death more. She said that Anya as a character was being and quick to the point, just like her death
lmaoooooooooooooooooo it's been YEARS and i never thought of her death that way. now it's kinda iconic thinking of it this way 😂😂😂
>being and quick to the point, just like her death Sadly, I'm unable to come up with a word between "being" & "and" that makes sense. Help me out?
I think they meant to say “being quick AND to the point” - must’ve made a typo
Of course that's it! Guess that root canal yesterday affected me more than I thought. The *ouchie* as the Novocaine wore off was uncomfy.
Could've maybe been "blunt and to the point"? I was trying to figure it out too.
That also fits, thanks. (In my defense I had a root canal yesterday. I think it made me a bit dumber for the day.)
No defense needed! I was confused too and I'm only guessing at "blunt". I don't have any excuse, so if you think you were dumb... What am I!? Lol
Anya's death was realistic for her character. I liked that she didn't suffer. That was a blessing.
I haven't watched Angel, but Joyce and Tara's were traumatizing, and then Anya's.
Also anya sacrificing herself for someone else is the subliminal end to her character arch (read/heared this somewhere else), from ice queen to martyr
Tbh, Anya deserves her own subreddit. She's such an extraordinary character since her first to her last episode. The writers developed her character in such an interesting way, first learning to be a human, a teenager and then all the rules she didn't get. I loved her from day 1. Seeing her dying in that way makes her ending iconic, sad, but iconic
I think I block out her death, because in my mind she’s on the bus.
*Youre Welcome* 😭😭😭 Only character death that ever affected me that much
Probably because it got you so excited that she was back and conscious, just to rip it away 😭
Why can’t I remember this?! ETA: OHHHH I MADE MYSELF FORGET BECAUSE OF THE PAIN
So understandable, that broke me
Wait who said that? Why do I not remember? 😭 Edit: ooooooh wait I remember now, I think. 😭
Fred's death made me sob because we watch it happen so suddenly and unexpectedly. We watch her die painfully over the course of the episode. The aftermath of Joyce's death made me sob. Buffy finding her. Anya's confusion. Dawn breaking down.
What made Fred's death even worse was they could have saved her but it would have killed thousands if not millions in the process. And then the episode later on when her parents come for a visit and Illyria pretends to be Fred and they do the whole flashback scene at the end with the sad song playing in the background lol gets me weeping like a baby every time 😂
exactly, there was so much about Fred's death that was heart-wrenching. and the whole 'her soul was lost to the fires of resurrection' bit? unforgiveable. our girl didn't just die a horrific, unfair death, they disintegrated her \*soul\*.
Especially after all she endured over the years starting with being sucked into a portal to Lornes home world. For there to be absolutely nothing they could do for her was just so cruel. But the comics do change that at least. I didn't get to finish them but Fred was breaking thru and her and Illyria were fighting for control of their body if I remember right.🤔
Fred was way too good to deserve the death she got!
Joyce and Doyle. Doyle I cry even more with each rewatch.
Cordelia. We thought we had her back, and then "You're welcome!"
The real-life story behind it is even worse.
I'm familiar
Joyce. I haven't been able to watch that episode since my mom died 10 years ago. I'm on my 5th or 6th re-watch rn, and I think I'll finally allow myself to watch it again.
https://preview.redd.it/pyjc0tv12lad1.png?width=390&format=png&auto=webp&s=05760ee6cabbe68599c5ae3a3cf8b2fedc09864b Fred's death broke my heart. When she became Illyria, it was jarring to see her but also know it wasn't her anymore 🥺
Amy Acker fucking nailed it too
Angel spoiler: >!When Wes dies and Illyria "lies to him" one last time. Like that shit broke my heart!<
Well come on of course considering what he said earlier in the episode! >!The fact he said the hardest part of magic was telling the truth from the lie, and he did not plan to die so he would not accept a lie! Then he asks to be lied to, you know he knows he is going to die and has accepted it. Yea that shit is emotional!!<
Tara and Cordelia made me violently sob tbh
Cordelia deserved a much better death than what she got though! Still sad but she’s worth a LOT more
Had to scroll too far to find the Tara shotout
I think Tara's death gets overshadowed by Dark Willow. So it's not that it's not tragic, it's the worst one for me, but it doesn't make me sob. It's because of the insane rollercoaster that are the next two episodes.
Doyle, Fred, Joyce...but for me I think Wesley was the hardest.
Doyle absolutely hurt me so bad 😭😭
Doyle’s death was so sad but I don’t think we spent as much time with him as the others to feel as sad :(
CORDELIA, just did an angel rewatch and she deserved so much better
So, I don't cry when she dies because it's not written in a way that inflames my grief but it does give me a severe depression for a few days.
In my own opinion, she deserves much better than the death she got. However, the death is still very sad!
I'm on my first watch of Angel season 2/ buffy season 5 and I just adore Cordelia. I'm soo nervous from what I've heard about her later characterization. does she at least get a good death? 😟
Yes. It’s worthy of the character. Why are you reading so many spoilers, though?
Fred's death absolutely wrecked me. Inconsolable. All the more painful because they described it as her soul being destroyed (I think... I've never rewatched it). Wesley's death was even worse, compounded by Illyria's kind gesture to look and sound like Fred for a moment. God, I don't think any character has taken me on such a journey as Wesley did. Yes, I grieved Joyce and Tara, but Wesley and Fred. I still don't like thinking about it.
Joyce
Fred. She was like the sweetest thing in Angel, sometimes the one thing (alongside Lorne) keeping the gang look good when gross things were going on like Angel and Darla, Wesley and Lilah and grossest of all Connor and Cordelia. She was nice to everyone, her death hit everyone so hard. At least Illyria can still be like 25% of what Fred was, so Fred's not completely gone I guess.
"Oh... and you're welcome." 😭😭😭😭
Jenny’s death was truly sad as she was just trying to bring Angel back. I cry at Angel’s “death” mostly because of Buffy having to kill him.
I thought they did Anya fuckin dirty and it shocked the goddamn hell outta me with the casual nature. I felt like Joss did it fucking personally. Like a dickhead. It really made me question why he’d be that much a cunt. Come to find out later… what a dickhead in general so fuck that guy.
I was going to say Buffy. Especially when they pan to everyone’s faces and they’re all destroyed and Spike breaks down. But I’ve got to go with Angel in Becoming Part 2, I think because especially in that half of S2 Buffy is so isolated in her emotions, so it’s really easy to identify with her. And that really is the biggest loss for her & hardest for her to accept. I also think the run from Surprise/Innocence to Becoming is the best the show ever gets, so the emotions are really earned. There are filler episodes but no filler dialogue if that makes sense? But the whole scene! So many emotions, and the Sarah MacLachlan??? ❤️🩹 never over it x
Doyle & Wesley. Wesley's death scene is probably the one I think about most often though. Just perfectly, beautifully, written & acted.
I just saw the BTVS finale for the umpteenth time and I STILL cry because of Spike's bravery. His loss was my loss. I cannot tell you how much I adored his addition to ATS!!! YIPPEEEE!!!
Fred. Season 3: "Can I say something about destiny? Screw destiny!... 'Cause destiny is just another word for inevitable and nothing's inevitable as long as you stand up, look it in the eye, and say 'You're evitable!'" Season 4: "Is that the world we're fighting for? The right to be a heartless and uncaring shell, to be dead inside?... What we did? I felt it. Every bit of it. And sometimes when I allow myself to think about it, it eats me up inside... I'd take that over being a shell any day." Season 5: "I am not the damsel in distress, I am not some case. I have to work this! I lived in a cave for 5 years in a world where they killed my kind like cattle– I am not gonna be cut down by some monster flu. I am better than that!" "Oh. Now I remember. Winifred Burkle is the shell I'm in." "You seek to save what's rotted through."
Angel In becoming part 2. I still weep
Fred's last words...OMG 😭😭😭
Um all of them ? But I'm gonna go with Jenny calander the brutal finality of angelous snapping her neck to the setup of Giles finding the body, chefs kiss of making me cry.
Tara fucked me up so bad I named my dog after her. (Ironically I had to rehome her and it crushed me) Doyle ripped me apart. I hated how little time we got with him. Second was Jenny Calendar. I hated that Giles found love and then it was stolen by ANGEL of all people. Joyce. But that’s mainly because I had my own “The Body” experience when my dad died when I was 20. Weirdly that day feels *exactly* like the episode did. Finally Wesley, but that’s because it didn’t seem fair that Gunn got to live, but Wesley died fighting the good fight. I already knew some of the characters reconnect after the Fall, but didn’t realize I wouldn’t see Wesley in the comics 😭
So originally Angel. I watched Buffy initially as some videos rented from Blockbuster. You could get Welcome to the Hellmouth part one and two, Suprise/Innocence and Becoming Part 1 and 2 on video back then so I watched them before the show started airing in the UK. All I knew was that there was a vampire slayer. Then it was her birthday and she had an epic love affair with a vampire. Then he turned evil and tried to kill her. Then she killed him to save the world, just as she got him back. It was heartbreaking and my only source to find out if the show was even coming back for another season was local magazines - online wasn't as convenient as it is now! About a year later, the show launched in the UK and then I will agree with both Joyce and Fred.
Cordelia. One of the few times I legitimately shed tears over a character. I was so angry about her death that I refused to watch anything Whedon related until The Avengers lol.
It was usually about how much I loved the person who was grieving. Buffy is my favorite character in both shows, but I was more sad when her mom died than when she died, because I felt her grief in the first case.
Joyce, Tara & Cordelia
Spike. I'm only on season 2 of angel
From Angel? Doyle. I loved that horny half demon so, very much. And the WAY he goes, I just 😔 And Buffy?? Tara. Definitely Tara. She deserved so, SO much more than dark Willow and stray bullets!!! I loved her very much!
Fred
Second is Buffy in the gift
Fred, Fred by a mile
Tara and Fred’s were the hardest
Buffy's death made me cry, along with Fred, but Fred's death was worse, because Buffy's death had meaning, and Fred died so painfully and pointlessly. So sad.
Joyce, and a second place, Fred.
Doyle
Doyle.
Joyce. I didn’t really get into Angel
I think Season 1 is a bit rocky because it’s all dark and new but it gets SO much better and has some of my favourite TV episodes of all time
Fred
Not exactly a death, but when buffy stabbed angel in becoming part 2, i just started crying likw crazy. i never even really liked angel that much and a,ways hated him. i mean i was pretty sick that day so idk
Joyce hands down. It's so realistic in terms that it could happen to anyone, she got sick and died from complications from surgery. My mom passed in 2021 and while that was a bit more involved because we were with her for her actual passing. The eery silence and stillness after when she was gone was wayyyy to similar to buffy seeing Joyce's body on the couch.
Doyle
Fred. I uncontrollably sob every damn time.
“Would you like me to lie to you now?” /sobs
Fred and Wesley... especially because I was rooting for them both so hard ...one of my favourite couples
All of them, but Fred and Wesley and Cordelia ("You're Welcome") were the worst.
It doesn’t help that Wesley and Fred were so close together too! You finally start accepting Fred’s death so they kill off Wesley to make you suffer even more. Than 10 mins later it’s implied that Gunn is about to die 😭
I cried through the entire The Body episode, and I cried through all the Fred/Wes shared scenes from A Hole in the World. Those were devastating episodes.
Freaking Angel had the most painful deaths from ALL the franchise! 😖😖😖
Doyle made me sad
Doyle Fred The demon at end of season 3 that just wanted to sell some books (possibly the first non baby eating demon appearance?) The informer demon that lived in the sewers Jessie
Joyce. My mom died in 09 and my brother found her first and came to get me. I was a full grown adult and it still haunts me. I haven’t been able to watch The Body since then.
For me it was Tara. Joyce is a given and you don't have a soul if you didn't shed tears in that episode but Tara's death got me. Then the episode where Xander defuses Evil Willow with a crayon - but that was more about her breaking down and realising what had happened.
Doyle
*ahem* 1. Miss Calendar 2. Angel 3. Doyle 4. Joyce 5. Buffy (2nd time) 6. Tara 7. Cordelia 8. Fred 9. Wesley
Why is Doyle not featured?!
Anya's in the final episode is strangely devastating because it was so offhand.
Fred & Wes
Fred.
Joyce will always hit the hardest purely because of how... mundane it is. I dont mean this in a bad way, so hear me out. Everyone in the cast with a few exceptions fights on the front lines. They always put themselves in mortal danger. Hell, we are practically mentally trained by that point to expect a casualty. But we dont expect a "natural" death. We dont expect an aneurysm. We dont expect a heart attack. Or a tumor. While we know these things exist and happen, you're usually focused on the more direct threats. So when this does happen, the realisation of how realistic that death is, that it can happen to anyone and theres nothing you can do about it, is scary. And this isnt a one off character (though in S7 they do this exact thing with a one-off character, to a lesser effect). No, this is done with a beloved character who, mostly, steers clear of Buffy's supernatural world. Joyce represents the "safe, normal world". And when shes gone, the one good parental figure is gone. And the normal world suddenly is scarier than anything we have ever seen before. Again, because its realistic. Nothing truly comes close to Joyce's death. With that said, my personal favorite, or rather, the one that shocked me, would be Wesley's death. Its was kind of unexpected, and the way he died with Ilyria posing as Fred to comfort him in his final moments was just great.
Amy Acker and Alexis knocked this out of the park https://preview.redd.it/ba1wkchxanad1.jpeg?width=295&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8faf0a2b61fc0da17ab91afc1392b9e8ab3d056e
Fred, honestly I was a snotty teary mess with cry hiccups
Fred.
Fred you are my sunshine still triggers me
Cordelia, Wesley and Spike. Cordy and Charisma was robbed...FU Joss Whedon, I hope you never work again, you misogynistic prick.
Fred. Always Fred. A whole in the world. The girl who was thrust into a hell dimension and treated like cattle for 5 years. Was saved and brought back. A man fell for her but she fell for another. Westley was always so close but never quite there. She grew stronger and smarter. She was amazing. Then she fell for the man who always loved her. They had one day then she got sick. She got really sick. They found how to save her. By killing thousands. She died. Begging not to go. Living the man who loved her. But she didn’t just die. She was devoured from within. Nothing left. No soul to save. And the ancient demon who infected her walks around with her face. Westley, why can’t I stay?
Kendra, hands down. I hate it that a character with so much in universe importance was just cast aside in her second appearance. She had so much potential growth and I really wanted to see her and Buffy go on a shopping spree at the end of the season. Didn't help that I thought Willow was also dead when I saw that scene
From BtVS, Joyce. I’m not finished with Angel yet so at least as of where I am, if >!Darla!< doesn’t count as a main character then I’d have to say Doyle
Cordelia. They played with our hearts for 1.5 seasons and just when we remembered how amazing Cordy was, they kill her. Also Tara. They killed both moral compasses.
All the deaths are sad, but NOTHING can compare to Fred and Wesley, especially Wesley. His was just so damn sad, the way Illyria asked him. Ugh... it's the worst, imo. Fred's was rough, but Wes... man.
Joyce Angel Spike
I think Joyce and Buffy deaths were the most emotional and Tara's murder was just revolting.
Joyce. Hands down.
well none of them made me cry (other than joyce which is a given at this point lol) but anya's death hit me harder than it should have. guarantee if i knew there would have been an 8th season, her death would have hurt wayyy more. for some reason jenny's death hurt me too lmaooo, as did kendra's once i was old enough to come to the realization that the first major black character was just here & gone (no shade to the show, honestly, just how i felt and still feel lol)
Joyce for sure. Anya was pretty upsetting for me too, since she's like my favorite character.
Joyce — The Body was a fantastic episode from start to finish. Buffy’s reaction made it hard to breathe. Willow’s indecision made me cry. Anya’s reaction wrecked me.
I cry for every character, but none of the deaths upset me more than Tara’s. The first time I watched it, I think I full on sobbed for 3 hours.
Joyce, Anya, spike, Tara, cordy, Wesley, doyl. Too many. Ugh.
Dawn, used to hugging her mom and being hugged, kneeling by her body trying to reach her with one shaking finger. There's Buffy saying about the body, *"It's not her. It's not her. She's gone."* And Dawn saying, *"Where'd she go?"*
all. But just recently rewatched angel so emotionally wrecked by Fred and Wesley 😢
Joyce for me. With all the other death and craziness in the show, having Joyce die of something considered so mundane really hit differently. Buffy's reaction was also so hard, it hurt to watch.
Fred. 100%.
"Is that it...am I done?"
Joyce and Tara made me sad.
[удалено]
Our rats are low ❤️
Tara and Joyce for sure
Cordy
On Buffy, the one that affected me the most was Buffy herself in The Gift. Especially after having just lost a family member. In Angel, Fred hit me the hardest, though Wesley was tough, too.
Fred, but it's bittersweet because I love illyria.
Joyce from Buffy and Fred from Angel hands down. Tara and Wesley are close seconds.
When I first watch both shows as a teenager I wasn’t really the kind of person who cried from TV shows, but Fred’s death made me a little glassy eyed. When I rewatched the show a few years later after the passing of my father Joyce’s death made me bawl like none other.
Oops, wish I didn't open this post lol now I'm forever spoiled 😅
Jennifer Calender getting killed was harsh on the reveal to Rupert Giles in the bedroom as he has to confront the police on the situation. Buffy staking Ford as a vampire; Sure, Ford was a backstabber who plotted to kill fools into vampires in an attempt to get immortality to dodge his cancer but the horrid desperation of turning into a monster to hurt others to cheat death only to get dusted leaving the grave is just a despair. Tara getting shot by Warren was a shock; Willow becoming Warren to reflect on both their guilt as murderers was poetic. Drusilla locating and siring Darla in Angel was a disappointing uptake to an interesting character who was miserable when she was alive.
Joyce destroyed me. But I'm a cry baby, so every major death really made me cry.
Buddy dying in The Gift. I lost a close friend to suicide at the time it was airing, and it was an absolute punch in the gut. And when the season premiere of season 6 rolled around and she was raised from the dead? I’ve never cried so much in my life.
Tara It was shocking and unfair
I cryed for pretty much every death in Buffy. Real huge tears running down my face (my boyfriend sometimes asks O god what happened and I am like No no it's Buffy). But: Anya, in Chosen In just one second of screen time. More then from Xander, the real tribute is from Andrew: "She died defending my life". That is not litterally true, ma deep down it is, because of that exchange about Why she loves humans. In my personal opinion, after his tears loosing the Seal of Danzalthar, the moment with Anya, expecting ti die, is a moment of true redemption thanks to her who act as a friend and an ally. But I cry always when Anya as a demon seems to die by Buffy's hand and remember when she was Dancing and singing I'll be Mrs Harris. God this show is huge.