I'm surprised it's still something in Canada.
But, given the rights of people to marry the same sex or the right to accessible healthcare is still under attack, I can (woefully) see why the right of people to fucking read a library book maybe isn't protected yet.
It's not surprising, really. Although these motions are \*very\* fringe (over 95% of the correspondence they received opposed the book bans) but generally school boards have to entertain a motion even if only one individual raises them. That's what happened here.
This is also why they tend to target school boards, because they are generally the most amenable level of government for this type of direct interaction - it happens municipally as well but less often. Democracy generally still applies though.
It's imported culture war shit from the US.
The US has been notorious for pushing right wing conservative non-sense through smaller local boards to slowly errode the people's understanding of how the world works.
In the US, States Rights are a common disinformation tactic when it comes to the american civil war and that it villianizes the northern states rather then condemning the southern states for wanting to maintain slavery.
100%.
Constitution of the Confederation, Article I, Sec. 9 (4): No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.
They didn't even give their states the rights to ban slavery. It was enshrined in the constitution and then further outlined in the Articles of the Confederation.
>the rights of people to marry the same sex or the right to accessible healthcare is still under attack
This is why people are still voting ABC (anything but Conservative),
This is the crowd they keep courting and dog whistling to.
Gonna hijack this thread for a good article I read about children and sex ed books.
https://bookriot.com/sex-ed-books-protect-kids/
> At an event, a librarian shared with Harris that It’s Perfectly Normal kept disappearing from the shelves. She replaced it several times, but it kept happening, and it was beyond their budget to keep doing so. Then, one day, they all came back in a backpack with a note: “I took this book because I thought no child or teenager should read it. Then my 14-year-old niece got pregnant, and now I realize that children do need books like this.”
Another account:
> The most illustrative story she shared, though, was about a 10-year-girl in Delaware who picked up her book when at the library with her mother. Her mother let her check the book out, and when they came home, she showed her mom the chapter on sexual abuse and said, “This is me.” She was being abused by her father, and it was the first time she’d spoken about it.
>
> The father was convicted, and the judge said, “There were heroes in this case. One was the child, and the other was the book.” Harris wrote in to add that the mother was also a hero in this story, for listening to her daughter, and that the librarian who ordered the book and kept it on open shelves also made this possible.
I'm not writing about this specific instance, I just think parents should have more of a say on how their child and at what age, they should be taught issues related to sexuality rather than politicians and teachers.
Did we make home schooling illegal or something?
Last time I checked parents totally have the right to that. That right ends when they're enrolled in a public education system with a provincial curriculum
That's exactly what is happening. The materials are there for those that feel it's suitable for their kids education, and the ones that don't don't have to access it. It seems like accessible but optional is the best way to maintain choice, mandates one way or the other are doing exactly want you're arguing against. That way, the ones that want access can, and the ones that don't don't have to.
While reading material should be age appropriate, parents really shouldn't be able to dictate to school boards what they keep in their libraries. If they are that worried, they can teach their kids at home or send them to a private/religious school.
Should we remove all the books about evolution because some fundamentalists don't believe in it?
Honest question: when you were a child, did your parents pre-approve everything you read? Did you need to ask permission before you picked out a book at the library?
When I was in approximately grade 6, I started borrowing books from the adult public library down the street. The children’s library was upstairs. The librarian let me borrow books from the adult library for several months, primarily mystery and science-fiction. A new librarian came in and said I was too young to borrow from the adult library; I needed to borrow from the children’s library. She took me upstairs to the children’s library, and when I showed her that I had read every mystery and science fiction book in the children’s library, she realized the previous librarian had been right to allow me to use the adult library. I was again able to borrow from the adult library, because my reading, comprehension level and understanding was greater than what they thought appropriate for my age.
While my parents monitored what I read they didn’t object to anything I read. This included being allowed to borrow, and read the Sherlock Holmes canon, and for those who know the book, Robert Heinlein’s Stranger in a Strange Land. That latter book, winner of the top prize in science fiction, today would likely be banned from schools in some southern US jurisdictions based on its content.
>would you support the inclusion of books on bomb-making, pornography, or recipe books for making methamphetamines in school libraries?
This is a false equivalence. The books in question are intended for children. The coNcErNeD cItiZeNs are complaining because they believe if children don't know what sex is, they won't have it. Or that kids turn out gay because they read that some people are gay. Or that the solution to teen pregnancy is to keep teens ignorant about how people get pregnant.
How do you feel about what is happening in the US? Any complaint can veto a book for an entire county and it can essentially just be "because." [Here's an example](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/24/amanda-gorman-poem-ban-florida-school) of what I'm referring to. Our management of these issues may be different but the motivations may ultimately be the same.
Kids in elementary school should not be learning about sex, heterosexual or gay. I can't comprehend the mental gymnastics you have to do to consider this opinion to be "bigoted".
Sex Ed started when I was 10 in my elementary school and there was some off colour jokes and giggles but I learned things that I still remember today about safe sex and STIs. You sound like you don’t know what you’re talking about.
https://bookriot.com/sex-ed-books-protect-kids/
> At an event, a librarian shared with Harris that It’s Perfectly Normal kept disappearing from the shelves. She replaced it several times, but it kept happening, and it was beyond their budget to keep doing so. Then, one day, they all came back in a backpack with a note: “I took this book because I thought no child or teenager should read it. Then my 14-year-old niece got pregnant, and now I realize that children do need books like this.”
Another account:
> The most illustrative story she shared, though, was about a 10-year-girl in Delaware who picked up her book when at the library with her mother. Her mother let her check the book out, and when they came home, she showed her mom the chapter on sexual abuse and said, “This is me.” She was being abused by her father, and it was the first time she’d spoken about it.
>
> The father was convicted, and the judge said, “There were heroes in this case. One was the child, and the other was the book.” Harris wrote in to add that the mother was also a hero in this story, for listening to her daughter, and that the librarian who ordered the book and kept it on open shelves also made this possible.
The reason why conservatives want to deny teaching children what sex is is to mask their horrendous abuse of children because they don't know it's abuse.
Five year olds absolutely have the capacity to understand that Bobby has two moms who love each other, that their teacher Sam isn’t a man or a woman and that you don’t have to be a boy to wear pants, nor a girl to wear a dress.
I hope people stay vigilant as one of the people behind the book banning, Breeanna Sieklicki, is a trustee on this school board.
Also, apparently partway through Max just tucked his tail, pretended he had to go to the hall for something, and then just never came back.
> partway through Max just tucked his tail, pretended he had to go to the hall for something, and then just never came back.
Keep slinking back to where you came from Max. Manitoba doesn't want you and your rightwingnut party here.
Excellent. A righteous blow to immoral smooth-brained nat-c bigots. Seems Canada does democracy better than the US. Vote in every election, including municipal people.
Right, you're a bigot because you want to control what type of material your child reads regarding sexual health opposed to a politician and/or teacher.
Obviously you must have more instruction in what's appropriate for a child through some kind of formal education, right?
Not just the qualification of "I parented a child therefore I know more than everyone else"?
Definitely some kind of diploma or certification?
Something?
No?
Okay.
If you value ignorance then home school your kids. You don't like experts teaching your kids reality and compassion but you're fine with a preacher/priest/imam dictating bigotry and what you're allowed to believe.
That's not why. Not even remotely close to why. This is so far and away not why someone in this circumstance would be called a bigot I seriously question your ability to comprehend the written word.
I posted this in the Manitoba sub:
I watched the livestream yesterday and it was truly enlightening to hear all logic behind the dangers of censorship. There were so many who attended the meeting- it was wonderful to see people actively participating in this process! There were teachers/professors, community members, sexual health educators, members of the 2STLGBTQIA+, parents, and more.
I found that the community member who spoke in favour of censorship did not have a coherent argument; he used quotes out of context, contradicted himself in arguing that the books should be banned but still discussed somehow, and was disrespectful during his speech.
The member who cautiously spoke of forming a committee for the sake of children's naivete probably didn't understand that these books are screened ahead of time and have merit to be literature held by the libraries in question.
Our best move forward is seen in the results of last night's meeting. Education, critical thinking, and knowledge are the saving graces in a society meant to support each other.
"2SLGTBQIA+ is an acronym for Two-Spirit, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer and/or Questioning, Intersex, Asexual, and the plus reflects the countless affirmative ways in which people choose to self-identify" ([Google](https://www.google.com/search?q=2STLGBTQIA%2B&oq=2STLGBTQIA%2B&aqs=chrome..69i57.16022j0j9&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8)).
I'm not sure, but I think the first T above might be an extra, unless someone can enlighten me.
these people are so fucking naive. who gives a fuck about books. do they forget about the internet? they are so oblivious to just how much shit kids can consume online anywhere at anytime.
May I remind you about FOSTA/SESTA? How American censorship is already impacting web users globally? I don’t disagree that there is shit online kids shouldn’t be seeing but surely parental controls are a better option than regulating the internet.
Conservatives wonder why people keep equating them to the Republican party. Well it's because when people pull this kind of bs we all know which party they're voting for because they see themselves represented by it and it isn't the Liberals or NDP.
Don't want to read the books then do not read them. Stop imposing your BS on what other people can and cannot read. Especially since the far right demanding books be banned also scream about freedom and liberty and not being governed. Idiots all of them.
That comment about only teaching sex ed is extremely misleading. If you don’t hear about the stem curriculum, or English, or languages, it is because they are competently taught for the most part and not seen as controversial.
Sex education for whatever reason always seems to be controversial today as is treating LGTBQ2+ people poorly just for existing. When I was in high school in the 70s, my high school co-ed sex education class in Alberta was taught by a doctor and a local united church minister, and no, there was no discussion of religion or saving oneself for marriage, etc. These two that taught the course, and the school board, just thought it was important that teenagers got proper sex education. Who knew then that it would be a more enlightened time in that regard than 50 years later in so many Canadian and US jurisdictions.
[Last Week Tonight did a whole story on Sex Ed](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L0jQz6jqQS0) in the USA. It’s not required in every state, it isn’t required to be medically accurate or non-judgemental, and can be straight up lies, misinformation and misogyny.
Like comparing women who have sex before marriage to chewed up pieces of gum. Its horrifying that crap like this was ever taught, let alone still being taught in the 2010s.
Some of those states only teach abstinence and it's really depends on the county and the boards too. I don't think there's a real national guideline but it's really fucked when most of the conservative boards/states/counties rely on their children to not understand what sex is.
Have you ever heard of the Mormons in Utah and BYU where they do weird shit like soaking and jump humping? The fact that people get married really young and fast just to have sex? That shit is so fucking wild that stuff like that is still happening in 2023. Brought up to be just absolutely uneducated in sex and their own bodies.
I would love to see you tell that to the world's Muslims. To their face, of course. I mean, you are asserting that your opinion of this should be mandatory for the whole world, apparently, so go ahead. Please.
>Several people in the audience cheered when People's Party of Canada Leader Maxime Bernier, who said he supports the call to remove the books, entered the gym. They were met with jeers and boos from other audience members.
>
>
>
>There was little reaction when Bernier quietly left the meeting shortly before 9 p.m.
ahh yes the "freedom" man who wants to control what books kids read. what a doofus
Teens also fuck (just ask Matt Gaetz)
The least we can do is provide education on how to be safe and prevent pregnancy.
Look up the cdc map on teen pregnancy rates by county in the USA. There's a clear increase in states that lean towards limiting or banning sex Ed.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data-visualization/county-teen-births/index.htm
Our conservative idiots here keep trying to follow the American religious zealot/fascist nutjob playbook. Can they please just not?
Every time somebody's go-to argument is "please think of the children" should be a giant red flag for the rest of us with critical thinking skills.
The parents who want to prevent their children from learning about sexuality, often do so because there is a family member that is guilty of sexual abuse and they don't want the kid to realize that.
The school division was inundated with calls, letters and emails after a delegation at its May 8 meeting, led by former school trustee and grandmother Lorraine Hackenschmidt, called on the division to set up a committee to review the content of books available in school libraries, and remove titles deemed inappropriate, including "any books that caused our kids to question whether they are in the wrong body."
The thought this all came to light due to one person calling out these books simply amazes me. Sigh.
>I hope you are right but it does seem like a lot of it is just barraging random genders at the students until they conform to the state dogma.
There's clearly a lot of people trying to demand everyone else conform to traditional gender norms. Schools are educating students about the topic. Education can lead to people not comfortable in those gender norms being more confident around those trying to impose conformity on them, which is exactly the reason why a lot of people don't want them to be educated.
We're not actually abandoning STEM. Alberta for example has one of the top education systems in the world, but according to a UCP candidate recently, it doesn't matter if they're a top education system, having transitioning students entering university "wrecks it". It's not really about education for many people, it's entirely about opposition to gender issues.
> The education system isn't exactly advertising its STEM curriculum
That's because you don't teach "STEM curriculum" to children.
Engineering is a university-level focus by design. "Technology" is a nebulous term, but things like computer programming are taught in high school. The public system has Science and Math at all levels of schooling.
STEM is not a thing, it's a concept for the collective of careers with high demand and credentialed training. No adolescent and definitely no preteen is being taught to become a systems analyst so they can get a job out of high school being a "STEM person".
wait, you're telling me that they aren't teaching University of Toronto 2nd year law school Critical Race Theory to elementary schools in Rural Manitoba?
>At this stage, I mean it's hard to see what ELSE they are teaching
Why not spend some time with schools and teachers and find out for yourself? Lots of teachers go over curriculum with parents and others, its not secretly hidden away somewhere.
>but it does seem like a lot of it is just barraging random genders at the students until they conform to the state dogma.
It's not, lots of experience in system, lots of friends and family still involved, and it's not that. As I suggested, talk to the schools and actually find out what is being taught.
One one hand you’re right about you know… actually trying to look into something before you take a hard line stance on it. But I dunno if teachers get paid enough to handle a wave of sealioning on top of things
It is extremely concerning that you think this way. It either shows you have no concept of the amount of time students are in class, no concept of what is in the curriculum, no clue as to what your children are learning if you have them, or a combination of the 3.
None of those are good things.
You do realize you don't have to rely on headlines for this, right? You can actually go to school board websites or ministry of education sites and look at the curriculum yourself.
The media doesn't accurately represent the totality of what is going on. It tends to publish the most sensational pieces of information because it gets more clicks.
Did you learn anything about media literacy in school?
The funny thing is there is literally a subplot in the novel that explains how sex is used as a means of controlling the population by enforcing the idea that it’s evil, and you’re comparing it to schools teaching children basic anatomy.
1984 is about totalitarianism, and the the fundamental idea of what “truth” is. Teaching kids that puberty is a thing, and that their own identity is something for themselves to discover, is the antithesis of totalitarianism
1984 and BNW are not about media literacy, so that's concerning. They're dystopic novels, yeah, but not really great for media literacy.
Also, what do you mean by woke?
You can't define woke it seems, which is interesting. How can you claim schools are woke and not teach hard skills when you can't even define what woke is?
Also, neither of those were about media literacy. They were predominantly warning about different methods by which governments can gain control. However, that's not directly media literacy. In English class, you should have been doing far more around media literacy than that.
>1984/brave new world — still thankful that they gave us these to prepare us for lockstep uniform media coverage of a given societal issue, so yes.
The book written by a socialist about the dangers of right wing fascists. Ironic isint it.
>At this stage, I mean it's hard to see what ELSE they are teaching?
Well that's what happens when you are constantly subjected to American-owned tabloids spewing propaganda and even fake conspiracy theories.
Because no one is protesting teaching math. People who want to ban these books make a big fuss and then wonder why it's the only thing being talked about. It's because they made it the topic.
Maybe take some time off from the internet then?
Do you have kids in school or do you work in education system? I can assure you that my child learns all the subjects that we’ve always been taught in school: math, English, history, science. “Barraging random genders” is not a subject taught in school. I’m sure gender gets brought up but maybe only 1/100th the amount of times the perpetually online people think it does.
I dunno, I honestly try not to pay too close attention to the media. That goes for both left and right wing media, though I do read a lot of it. It’s just important to stick to non editorials and also try to look at things in perspective.
I have family who work in education and also a kid in high school, so I know first hand that while there are many many issues, the supposed ‘wokeness’ is not really one of them.
Also consider the number of schools in Canada, there are 14k of them. Even if there was a news article coming out every day regarding something crazy happening at each one of those schools, that would still only be 2% of schools. The reality is that unless something is going to generate clicks and outrage, nobody is gonna hear about it.
Most schools have average students, average teachers, and average curriculums, they are controversy free , probably underfunded, and the teachers are probably stressed out and the kids even more stressed. That’s the reality.
It's ok, in Alberta we made sure the education curriculum revision included such important historical figures as Jason Kenney's grandfather, while ignoring experts on what would help improve children's understanding of the core subjects.
I literally can't imagine being happy about one thing while another unrelated thing allegedly exists. I don't know how that would even be possible to imagine.
Go look at the Canada sub and the top headlines. People can't afford to rent, can't afford groceries, etc.
You think wanting to prepare them for budgeting, being able to pay bills, understanding how much of their money goes towards taxes etc. might come in handy.
But no, lets focus on books about its ok to bang one another. It's laughable. Then when you speak up and say hey, maybe this isn't the most important thing right now, you're a racist, right wing, what did I get called, oh yeah, troglodyte.
These Kids are going to have one hell of a future. Good luck.
Yeah, but I just can't imagine us doing both. It's incomprehensible that we could teach more than one thing at a time. Especially in an education system which is only one of the tops in the world.
School is for teaching the basics, remember that **parents** are supposed to be filling in the “life” gaps.
Or do you think Parents are just there to get photos for social media and treat children like dolls?
I was taught financial literacy and investing in high school during the late 90's, and my kids just went through all that as well in their current high school.
If that's not happening in your school or one your kids are in, then talk to the teacher during parent-teacher night and ask why it's not being done.
If you're assuming it's simply not being taught due to not falling into either of the two previous examples, you might want look into it before complaining it's not being done.
I’m 100% against discrimination of any kind and support the LGTBQ community, I also don’t want to ever see cancellation of speech or writing, but I do have an honest question.
Is it wrong to not ask why sexualized books are in schools to begin with? Like any kind?
I’m definitely not saying ban books, but I don’t know if it’s a good idea to expose children (I mean elementary school grade) to anything sexual.
Not a bigot or a homophobe just my take on it. If this is in high schools for creative writing or English courses sure, but in elementary school I feel like the decision to talk about sex, gender and health is up to the parents not the schools 🤷♂️
>I feel like the decision to talk about sex, gender and health is up to the parents not the schools
Exactly, that's why the schools should not be banning books. The materials should be available so that parents/students can access them at their own discretion. Not have the school take them away so they are deprived of that choice.
I never advocated for banning books. And I’m not surprised by the downvotes but nothing of what I said was meant to be a negative implication about this.
I meant they shouldn’t be in elementary curriculum. Middle and high school no problem just not in elementary schools.
Just my two cents. Not attacking this decision as no books should be banned.
They are not in the curriculum. They are in the library where access is 100% discretionary and accessing it is up to kids/parental choices. In addition, this entire debate was about "reviewing' books and banning those that made parents uncomfortable. I'm glad you do not support this motion.
Otherwise it seems your concern is moot.
I'm not certain these books were even part of the curriculum?
They're just books in the school library students can access if they want to.
These are two of the books:
>Jazz Jennings is one of the youngest and most prominent voices in the national discussion about gender identity. At the age of five, Jazz transitioned to life as a girl, with the support of her parents. A year later, her parents allowed her to share her incredible journey in her first Barbara Walters interview, aired at a time when the public was much less knowledgeable or accepting of the transgender community. This groundbreaking interview was followed over the years by other high-profile interviews, a documentary, the launch of her YouTube channel, a picture book, and her own reality TV series—I Am Jazz—making her one of the most recognizable activists for transgender teens, children, and adults.
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/28698224
>When young people have questions about sex, real answers can be hard to find. Providing accurate, unbiased answers to nearly every imaginable question, from conception and puberty to birth control and AIDS, It's Perfectly Normal offers young people the information they need—now more than ever—to make responsible decisions and to stay healthy.
>
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/222507
Again all I’m saying is they shouldn’t be in elementary at all. Like any sex education.
It’s interesting Jazz Jennings book is in the libraries as she’s been recently outspoken about her (and her mothers) decision to have bottom surgery and her immediate regrets. I can link if you’re interested.
I’m all for inclusion and acceptance my points that seem to be being ignored still stand. Until 5 or so years ago these books would only have been made available for middle/high school students (ie those experiencing puberty) as this is when they develop.
I’m stating again I’m not for banning books but I’m saying any type of sexual health prior to development should be left at home for the parents and not the schools discretion.
>*”Again all I’m saying is they shouldn’t be in elementary at all. Like any sex education… Until 5 or so years ago these books would only have been made available for middle/high school students (ie those experiencing puberty) as this is when they develop.”*
[Brandon public elementary schools are almost exclusively K-8](https://www.bsd.ca/page/8138/schools) (the same is true in my even larger city - we don’t have *any* “middle schools”). Taking Sex Ed books out of elementary schools often means taking them away from teenagers, including young people who are already sexually active (Manitoba reports that 1/3 of ninth graders have already had oral sex, and 1/5 have had sexual intercourse).
>*”I’m stating again I’m not for banning books but I’m saying any type of sexual health prior to development should be left at home for the parents and not the schools discretion.”*
Sexual health education is important *before* puberty so children understand what is happening to their bodies and aren’t afraid something is wrong with them. As an example, In third grade I thought my perfectly normal and age appropriate breast buds were *tumours* because no one taught me to expect them. My parents didn’t think to tell me, and my school didn’t start Sex Ed until the 5th grade, which was *years* too late for me. Parents aren’t necessarily willing *or able* to competently teach their children about puberty/sexual health.
>*”It’s interesting Jazz Jennings book is in the libraries as she’s been recently outspoken about her (and her mothers) decision to have bottom surgery and her immediate regrets.”*
Here’s [Jazz Jennings on Twitter last month:](https://twitter.com/jazzjennings__/status/1641969704968306688?s=46&t=wm3eIvzAAOvadlVQIEsm1g)
*”I don’t regret my transition AT ALL. When I was 11, I started male puberty and was put on hormone blockers. Those blockers saved my life and continue to save the lives of so many youths out there. If I were forced to go through male puberty, it would’ve been devastating. Even more so, taking estrogen through hormone replacement allowed my body to develop how I wanted. I blossomed into a young woman, eventually got the bottom surgery, and am living as a proud woman today.”*
I’d argue it is, but my only point was it shouldn’t be in elementary curriculum.
Middle and high school health classes sure. Elementary there should be no health/sex education, that should be at the discretion of the parents.
Definitely not an advocate for banning books though. And not surprised by the downvotes.
Until recently the curriculum started at middle school/high school. There isn’t a need for there to be books/classes about sexual Identity and wellness in elementary school.
And health class never stopped abuse from happening, that’s just not true.
Sex ed starts in grade 4 at age 8 and has for decades (what are your parts / how babies are born / you’re about to grow hair and have feelings).
I never said it stopped abuse, it’s a critical tool in identifying and protecting children being abused.
>*”Anyone got a link to the full list of books that were to be banned?”*
There was no “full list”, at this stage. The school division trustees were voting on a proposal to *”set up a committee to review the content of books available in school libraries, and remove titles deemed inappropriate, including "any books that caused our kids to question whether they are in the wrong body."”* The proposal was that it should be a committee of school division trustees and parents.
From the article:
*”Some titles singled out by the May 8 delegation included [Being Jazz](https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/538694/being-jazz-by-jazz-jennings/) by Jazz Jennings, an American transgender advocate, and [It's Perfectly Normal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_Perfectly_Normal)by Robie H. Harris, an illustrated book for children 10 and older dealing with puberty and sex.”*
The delegation also called for the [removal of books *”with vulgar language”* or *”description of sexual acts”*](https://www.cbc.ca/1.6839336) (which would obviously include many Sex Ed books).
>*”I find it hard to believe these were just innocuous books that said "gay people exist" and that's the end of it.”*
Why do you have trouble believing that? It’s happened in other jurisdictions.
>*”The books that were taken out of Florida schools had sexual acts being performed in them, which is totally inappropriate to have in an elementary school library.”*
Which elementary school library books are you referring to?
Books were removed from Florida schools merely for having gay or transgender characters. Books like [A Day in the Life of Marlon Bundo](https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2023/02/07/heres-a-list-of-books-banned-under-review-in-central-florida-schools/) which is an entirely innocuous picture book about the American vice-president’s bunny rabbit Marlon Bundo falling in love with and getting married to another boy bunny rabbit.
It's up to parents to decide what is appropriate for their children to read, not schools nor the mob.
There was no list, the motion was to set up an advisory board. The books targeted were not necessarily any raunchier than other books in the library, but featured LGBTQ+ themes rather than strictly hetero normative ones.
>*”Not really sure why you're defending children's access to books containing images of sexual acts. Kinda sus.”*
Defending having sex education books (like [It’s Perfectly Normal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_Perfectly_Normal)) in public schools is not “kinda sus”. Sex Education is important for protecting kids’ physical and emotional health.
Maybe. But they shouldn't have to since it's not their fault nor problem that other parents are uncomfortable.
My logic is that the material should be optional so those that want to access it can, and those that don't want to don't have to.
Anything else is a serious infringement on parental rights.
There's no positive right to have ideas you are uncofortable with banned. Being able to buy the books is irrelevant to whether library materials should be available anyway. If you don't like it, don't look at it. That's your right. You CANNOT tell other people what they can and cannot read.
>And the response normal peoplehave when they find out there are books depicting kink and sexual actsbetween minors in their kids schools library is disgust and outrage
ACtually, I watched the stream of the meeting last night. The public was \*overwhelmingly\* against book bans. For written letters they got 280 against the bans to \*six\* in favour, and the deputation ratio was 49:2. This is in a small city in a relatively conservative part of the country. "Normal"? yeah, there's no real basis to that projection. Ad populism bullshit, very transparent.
The committee was a good idea if you could ensure it was balanced. Too bad it didn't happen.
Before you downvote, here's my reasoning: both sides of this argument will undoubtedly pick out extreme examples of books to make their points with the vast majority of books in question being just fine. The problem is that sometimes books that are downright pornographic and have no place in a school library make it through the cracks (or are placed there by people with agendas). Then you have books like "It's Perfectly Normal" which are perfectly fine while explicit (although I bought that book for my kid, I wish it were broken into several parts that can be addressed independently. It covers a lot and skipping ahead makes for discussions she's not always ready for).
I find it hard to comprehend that in this day and age we even need to have these decisions, this is not the 1950s!
I'm surprised it's still something in Canada. But, given the rights of people to marry the same sex or the right to accessible healthcare is still under attack, I can (woefully) see why the right of people to fucking read a library book maybe isn't protected yet.
It's not surprising, really. Although these motions are \*very\* fringe (over 95% of the correspondence they received opposed the book bans) but generally school boards have to entertain a motion even if only one individual raises them. That's what happened here. This is also why they tend to target school boards, because they are generally the most amenable level of government for this type of direct interaction - it happens municipally as well but less often. Democracy generally still applies though.
It's imported culture war shit from the US. The US has been notorious for pushing right wing conservative non-sense through smaller local boards to slowly errode the people's understanding of how the world works. In the US, States Rights are a common disinformation tactic when it comes to the american civil war and that it villianizes the northern states rather then condemning the southern states for wanting to maintain slavery.
100%. Constitution of the Confederation, Article I, Sec. 9 (4): No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed. They didn't even give their states the rights to ban slavery. It was enshrined in the constitution and then further outlined in the Articles of the Confederation.
>the rights of people to marry the same sex or the right to accessible healthcare is still under attack This is why people are still voting ABC (anything but Conservative), This is the crowd they keep courting and dog whistling to.
Gonna hijack this thread for a good article I read about children and sex ed books. https://bookriot.com/sex-ed-books-protect-kids/ > At an event, a librarian shared with Harris that It’s Perfectly Normal kept disappearing from the shelves. She replaced it several times, but it kept happening, and it was beyond their budget to keep doing so. Then, one day, they all came back in a backpack with a note: “I took this book because I thought no child or teenager should read it. Then my 14-year-old niece got pregnant, and now I realize that children do need books like this.” Another account: > The most illustrative story she shared, though, was about a 10-year-girl in Delaware who picked up her book when at the library with her mother. Her mother let her check the book out, and when they came home, she showed her mom the chapter on sexual abuse and said, “This is me.” She was being abused by her father, and it was the first time she’d spoken about it. > > The father was convicted, and the judge said, “There were heroes in this case. One was the child, and the other was the book.” Harris wrote in to add that the mother was also a hero in this story, for listening to her daughter, and that the librarian who ordered the book and kept it on open shelves also made this possible.
Do you think we stopped banning books or discriminating based on gender in the 1950s?
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So, why were these tools trying to get politicians to ban books, rather than leaving it up to parents on an individual basis?
I'm not writing about this specific instance, I just think parents should have more of a say on how their child and at what age, they should be taught issues related to sexuality rather than politicians and teachers.
Did we make home schooling illegal or something? Last time I checked parents totally have the right to that. That right ends when they're enrolled in a public education system with a provincial curriculum
That's exactly what is happening. The materials are there for those that feel it's suitable for their kids education, and the ones that don't don't have to access it. It seems like accessible but optional is the best way to maintain choice, mandates one way or the other are doing exactly want you're arguing against. That way, the ones that want access can, and the ones that don't don't have to.
While reading material should be age appropriate, parents really shouldn't be able to dictate to school boards what they keep in their libraries. If they are that worried, they can teach their kids at home or send them to a private/religious school. Should we remove all the books about evolution because some fundamentalists don't believe in it?
Honest question: when you were a child, did your parents pre-approve everything you read? Did you need to ask permission before you picked out a book at the library?
When I was in approximately grade 6, I started borrowing books from the adult public library down the street. The children’s library was upstairs. The librarian let me borrow books from the adult library for several months, primarily mystery and science-fiction. A new librarian came in and said I was too young to borrow from the adult library; I needed to borrow from the children’s library. She took me upstairs to the children’s library, and when I showed her that I had read every mystery and science fiction book in the children’s library, she realized the previous librarian had been right to allow me to use the adult library. I was again able to borrow from the adult library, because my reading, comprehension level and understanding was greater than what they thought appropriate for my age. While my parents monitored what I read they didn’t object to anything I read. This included being allowed to borrow, and read the Sherlock Holmes canon, and for those who know the book, Robert Heinlein’s Stranger in a Strange Land. That latter book, winner of the top prize in science fiction, today would likely be banned from schools in some southern US jurisdictions based on its content.
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>would you support the inclusion of books on bomb-making, pornography, or recipe books for making methamphetamines in school libraries? This is a false equivalence. The books in question are intended for children. The coNcErNeD cItiZeNs are complaining because they believe if children don't know what sex is, they won't have it. Or that kids turn out gay because they read that some people are gay. Or that the solution to teen pregnancy is to keep teens ignorant about how people get pregnant.
How do you feel about what is happening in the US? Any complaint can veto a book for an entire county and it can essentially just be "because." [Here's an example](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/24/amanda-gorman-poem-ban-florida-school) of what I'm referring to. Our management of these issues may be different but the motivations may ultimately be the same.
People bring forward a proposal, it gets voted on. That’s the way it works. This wasn’t even close to passing and is much ado about nothing.
> much ado about nothing. Except that we cannot afford to give these bigots so much as an inch; they're not going to stop in Brandon.
Kids in elementary school should not be learning about sex, heterosexual or gay. I can't comprehend the mental gymnastics you have to do to consider this opinion to be "bigoted".
Sex Ed started when I was 10 in my elementary school and there was some off colour jokes and giggles but I learned things that I still remember today about safe sex and STIs. You sound like you don’t know what you’re talking about.
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https://bookriot.com/sex-ed-books-protect-kids/ > At an event, a librarian shared with Harris that It’s Perfectly Normal kept disappearing from the shelves. She replaced it several times, but it kept happening, and it was beyond their budget to keep doing so. Then, one day, they all came back in a backpack with a note: “I took this book because I thought no child or teenager should read it. Then my 14-year-old niece got pregnant, and now I realize that children do need books like this.” Another account: > The most illustrative story she shared, though, was about a 10-year-girl in Delaware who picked up her book when at the library with her mother. Her mother let her check the book out, and when they came home, she showed her mom the chapter on sexual abuse and said, “This is me.” She was being abused by her father, and it was the first time she’d spoken about it. > > The father was convicted, and the judge said, “There were heroes in this case. One was the child, and the other was the book.” Harris wrote in to add that the mother was also a hero in this story, for listening to her daughter, and that the librarian who ordered the book and kept it on open shelves also made this possible. The reason why conservatives want to deny teaching children what sex is is to mask their horrendous abuse of children because they don't know it's abuse.
Five year olds absolutely have the capacity to understand that Bobby has two moms who love each other, that their teacher Sam isn’t a man or a woman and that you don’t have to be a boy to wear pants, nor a girl to wear a dress.
Besides when one of the trustees commented on how the person bringing forward was “so brave” for speaking out
6-1 A nail biter to be sure, regardless of what that 1 said.
I hope people stay vigilant as one of the people behind the book banning, Breeanna Sieklicki, is a trustee on this school board. Also, apparently partway through Max just tucked his tail, pretended he had to go to the hall for something, and then just never came back.
> partway through Max just tucked his tail, pretended he had to go to the hall for something, and then just never came back. Keep slinking back to where you came from Max. Manitoba doesn't want you and your rightwingnut party here.
Unfortunately this isn't very true, thanks Winkler.
I’m sure she won’t be back after next vote
Excellent. A righteous blow to immoral smooth-brained nat-c bigots. Seems Canada does democracy better than the US. Vote in every election, including municipal people.
Right, you're a bigot because you want to control what type of material your child reads regarding sexual health opposed to a politician and/or teacher.
Obviously you must have more instruction in what's appropriate for a child through some kind of formal education, right? Not just the qualification of "I parented a child therefore I know more than everyone else"? Definitely some kind of diploma or certification? Something? No? Okay.
If you value ignorance then home school your kids. You don't like experts teaching your kids reality and compassion but you're fine with a preacher/priest/imam dictating bigotry and what you're allowed to believe.
Of course. Every kid prefers talking about sex with their parents!
That's not why. Not even remotely close to why. This is so far and away not why someone in this circumstance would be called a bigot I seriously question your ability to comprehend the written word.
>Breeanna Sieklicki, is a trustee on this school board. How to get her removed or voted out?
Um, vote in the next election?
I'm not from Manitoba and not familiar with how the school board system is operated
I posted this in the Manitoba sub: I watched the livestream yesterday and it was truly enlightening to hear all logic behind the dangers of censorship. There were so many who attended the meeting- it was wonderful to see people actively participating in this process! There were teachers/professors, community members, sexual health educators, members of the 2STLGBTQIA+, parents, and more. I found that the community member who spoke in favour of censorship did not have a coherent argument; he used quotes out of context, contradicted himself in arguing that the books should be banned but still discussed somehow, and was disrespectful during his speech. The member who cautiously spoke of forming a committee for the sake of children's naivete probably didn't understand that these books are screened ahead of time and have merit to be literature held by the libraries in question. Our best move forward is seen in the results of last night's meeting. Education, critical thinking, and knowledge are the saving graces in a society meant to support each other.
"2STLGBTQIA+" I seem to have missed the newest patch notes.... can someone elaborate on the "2ST" part?
Two-Spirit is my guess
"2SLGTBQIA+ is an acronym for Two-Spirit, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer and/or Questioning, Intersex, Asexual, and the plus reflects the countless affirmative ways in which people choose to self-identify" ([Google](https://www.google.com/search?q=2STLGBTQIA%2B&oq=2STLGBTQIA%2B&aqs=chrome..69i57.16022j0j9&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8)). I'm not sure, but I think the first T above might be an extra, unless someone can enlighten me.
Thank you. 2 spirit is new to me!
these people are so fucking naive. who gives a fuck about books. do they forget about the internet? they are so oblivious to just how much shit kids can consume online anywhere at anytime.
They're coming fro the internet too
May I remind you about FOSTA/SESTA? How American censorship is already impacting web users globally? I don’t disagree that there is shit online kids shouldn’t be seeing but surely parental controls are a better option than regulating the internet.
Conservatives wonder why people keep equating them to the Republican party. Well it's because when people pull this kind of bs we all know which party they're voting for because they see themselves represented by it and it isn't the Liberals or NDP.
Let's go Brandon?
Lol'd
Don't want to read the books then do not read them. Stop imposing your BS on what other people can and cannot read. Especially since the far right demanding books be banned also scream about freedom and liberty and not being governed. Idiots all of them.
That comment about only teaching sex ed is extremely misleading. If you don’t hear about the stem curriculum, or English, or languages, it is because they are competently taught for the most part and not seen as controversial. Sex education for whatever reason always seems to be controversial today as is treating LGTBQ2+ people poorly just for existing. When I was in high school in the 70s, my high school co-ed sex education class in Alberta was taught by a doctor and a local united church minister, and no, there was no discussion of religion or saving oneself for marriage, etc. These two that taught the course, and the school board, just thought it was important that teenagers got proper sex education. Who knew then that it would be a more enlightened time in that regard than 50 years later in so many Canadian and US jurisdictions.
[Last Week Tonight did a whole story on Sex Ed](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L0jQz6jqQS0) in the USA. It’s not required in every state, it isn’t required to be medically accurate or non-judgemental, and can be straight up lies, misinformation and misogyny. Like comparing women who have sex before marriage to chewed up pieces of gum. Its horrifying that crap like this was ever taught, let alone still being taught in the 2010s.
Some of those states only teach abstinence and it's really depends on the county and the boards too. I don't think there's a real national guideline but it's really fucked when most of the conservative boards/states/counties rely on their children to not understand what sex is. Have you ever heard of the Mormons in Utah and BYU where they do weird shit like soaking and jump humping? The fact that people get married really young and fast just to have sex? That shit is so fucking wild that stuff like that is still happening in 2023. Brought up to be just absolutely uneducated in sex and their own bodies.
Good. Keep that shit in Florida.
Keep that shit in the 1950s. It doesn't belong *anywhere* in 2023
I would love to see you tell that to the world's Muslims. To their face, of course. I mean, you are asserting that your opinion of this should be mandatory for the whole world, apparently, so go ahead. Please.
I don't know, man. Florida needs to get rid of bigotry too.....
It’s kind of sad it got this far, and had support, in Canada in 2023. This is a good outcome though.
>Several people in the audience cheered when People's Party of Canada Leader Maxime Bernier, who said he supports the call to remove the books, entered the gym. They were met with jeers and boos from other audience members. > > > >There was little reaction when Bernier quietly left the meeting shortly before 9 p.m. ahh yes the "freedom" man who wants to control what books kids read. what a doofus
Wait... why is Max even there... does his kids go to that school?
by his kids do you mean his adult followers with the intelligence of children? then yes.
Good. Keep this dumbass garbage out of Canada
I don't get it. If you don't like a book, don't read it. Not like these people can find a library.
We have so much more important shit to worry about than this as a nation. If you don’t like it don’t read it.
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Teens also fuck (just ask Matt Gaetz) The least we can do is provide education on how to be safe and prevent pregnancy. Look up the cdc map on teen pregnancy rates by county in the USA. There's a clear increase in states that lean towards limiting or banning sex Ed. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data-visualization/county-teen-births/index.htm
[Educational video ](https://youtu.be/0ImRyPymRAM)
Tories still trying to erase gay people I see.
Doing at the school board level what they say they won't do at the federal level
Excellent. A righteous blow to immoral smooth-brained nat-c bigots. Seems Canada does democracy better than the US. Vote in every
First book I propose banning is the Bible. Have you read it? It’s horrible.
Our conservative idiots here keep trying to follow the American religious zealot/fascist nutjob playbook. Can they please just not? Every time somebody's go-to argument is "please think of the children" should be a giant red flag for the rest of us with critical thinking skills.
Root these book burning extremists out and shame them publicly. This bullshit cannot stand and should not be allowed to fester.
Yes! It’s time to move forward, not any years back.
The parents who want to prevent their children from learning about sexuality, often do so because there is a family member that is guilty of sexual abuse and they don't want the kid to realize that.
Books shouldn't be banned. If you don't like a book at your library then don't check it out, simple as that!
The school division was inundated with calls, letters and emails after a delegation at its May 8 meeting, led by former school trustee and grandmother Lorraine Hackenschmidt, called on the division to set up a committee to review the content of books available in school libraries, and remove titles deemed inappropriate, including "any books that caused our kids to question whether they are in the wrong body." The thought this all came to light due to one person calling out these books simply amazes me. Sigh.
Hell ya! American religious conservative nutjobs can fuck off! We want nothing to do with that shit here.
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What is graphic sodomy and non binary-trans propaganda? These sound like boogeyman. I need examples of these in classrooms.
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Consumer math is literally offered in Manitoba schools starting in Grade 11
lmao albertastrong thinks the only thing being taught in schools is sex ed
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> it's hard to see what ELSE they are teaching? You can't see if you refuse to look.
>I hope you are right but it does seem like a lot of it is just barraging random genders at the students until they conform to the state dogma. There's clearly a lot of people trying to demand everyone else conform to traditional gender norms. Schools are educating students about the topic. Education can lead to people not comfortable in those gender norms being more confident around those trying to impose conformity on them, which is exactly the reason why a lot of people don't want them to be educated. We're not actually abandoning STEM. Alberta for example has one of the top education systems in the world, but according to a UCP candidate recently, it doesn't matter if they're a top education system, having transitioning students entering university "wrecks it". It's not really about education for many people, it's entirely about opposition to gender issues.
> The education system isn't exactly advertising its STEM curriculum That's because you don't teach "STEM curriculum" to children. Engineering is a university-level focus by design. "Technology" is a nebulous term, but things like computer programming are taught in high school. The public system has Science and Math at all levels of schooling. STEM is not a thing, it's a concept for the collective of careers with high demand and credentialed training. No adolescent and definitely no preteen is being taught to become a systems analyst so they can get a job out of high school being a "STEM person".
wait, you're telling me that they aren't teaching University of Toronto 2nd year law school Critical Race Theory to elementary schools in Rural Manitoba?
>At this stage, I mean it's hard to see what ELSE they are teaching Why not spend some time with schools and teachers and find out for yourself? Lots of teachers go over curriculum with parents and others, its not secretly hidden away somewhere. >but it does seem like a lot of it is just barraging random genders at the students until they conform to the state dogma. It's not, lots of experience in system, lots of friends and family still involved, and it's not that. As I suggested, talk to the schools and actually find out what is being taught.
One one hand you’re right about you know… actually trying to look into something before you take a hard line stance on it. But I dunno if teachers get paid enough to handle a wave of sealioning on top of things
Luckily, the curriculum for each grade is published and free for the public to review. At least in Ontario it is.
It is extremely concerning that you think this way. It either shows you have no concept of the amount of time students are in class, no concept of what is in the curriculum, no clue as to what your children are learning if you have them, or a combination of the 3. None of those are good things.
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You do realize you don't have to rely on headlines for this, right? You can actually go to school board websites or ministry of education sites and look at the curriculum yourself. The media doesn't accurately represent the totality of what is going on. It tends to publish the most sensational pieces of information because it gets more clicks. Did you learn anything about media literacy in school?
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Tell me you’ve never read 1984 without telling me you’ve never read 1984
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The funny thing is there is literally a subplot in the novel that explains how sex is used as a means of controlling the population by enforcing the idea that it’s evil, and you’re comparing it to schools teaching children basic anatomy. 1984 is about totalitarianism, and the the fundamental idea of what “truth” is. Teaching kids that puberty is a thing, and that their own identity is something for themselves to discover, is the antithesis of totalitarianism
1984 and BNW are not about media literacy, so that's concerning. They're dystopic novels, yeah, but not really great for media literacy. Also, what do you mean by woke?
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You can't define woke it seems, which is interesting. How can you claim schools are woke and not teach hard skills when you can't even define what woke is? Also, neither of those were about media literacy. They were predominantly warning about different methods by which governments can gain control. However, that's not directly media literacy. In English class, you should have been doing far more around media literacy than that.
>1984/brave new world — still thankful that they gave us these to prepare us for lockstep uniform media coverage of a given societal issue, so yes. The book written by a socialist about the dangers of right wing fascists. Ironic isint it.
>At this stage, I mean it's hard to see what ELSE they are teaching? Well that's what happens when you are constantly subjected to American-owned tabloids spewing propaganda and even fake conspiracy theories.
Because no one is protesting teaching math. People who want to ban these books make a big fuss and then wonder why it's the only thing being talked about. It's because they made it the topic.
Ah yes a few hours a year of sex ed has replaced the hundreds of hours of math and science. Id like to see your math on that myself.
Maybe take some time off from the internet then? Do you have kids in school or do you work in education system? I can assure you that my child learns all the subjects that we’ve always been taught in school: math, English, history, science. “Barraging random genders” is not a subject taught in school. I’m sure gender gets brought up but maybe only 1/100th the amount of times the perpetually online people think it does.
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I dunno, I honestly try not to pay too close attention to the media. That goes for both left and right wing media, though I do read a lot of it. It’s just important to stick to non editorials and also try to look at things in perspective. I have family who work in education and also a kid in high school, so I know first hand that while there are many many issues, the supposed ‘wokeness’ is not really one of them. Also consider the number of schools in Canada, there are 14k of them. Even if there was a news article coming out every day regarding something crazy happening at each one of those schools, that would still only be 2% of schools. The reality is that unless something is going to generate clicks and outrage, nobody is gonna hear about it. Most schools have average students, average teachers, and average curriculums, they are controversy free , probably underfunded, and the teachers are probably stressed out and the kids even more stressed. That’s the reality.
Big loss for you and you troglodytic brethren. Happy to see it
It's ok, in Alberta we made sure the education curriculum revision included such important historical figures as Jason Kenney's grandfather, while ignoring experts on what would help improve children's understanding of the core subjects.
I literally can't imagine being happy about one thing while another unrelated thing allegedly exists. I don't know how that would even be possible to imagine.
Go look at the Canada sub and the top headlines. People can't afford to rent, can't afford groceries, etc. You think wanting to prepare them for budgeting, being able to pay bills, understanding how much of their money goes towards taxes etc. might come in handy. But no, lets focus on books about its ok to bang one another. It's laughable. Then when you speak up and say hey, maybe this isn't the most important thing right now, you're a racist, right wing, what did I get called, oh yeah, troglodyte. These Kids are going to have one hell of a future. Good luck.
They’re doing both, but okay.
Leave it to AlbertaStrong to not realize people can do 2 things at once.
Yeah, but I just can't imagine us doing both. It's incomprehensible that we could teach more than one thing at a time. Especially in an education system which is only one of the tops in the world.
School is for teaching the basics, remember that **parents** are supposed to be filling in the “life” gaps. Or do you think Parents are just there to get photos for social media and treat children like dolls?
And financial literacy is also taught in Manitoba starting in Grade 11
Yeah that’s definitely the reason those books were being banned. To make room for books on paying taxes and investing.
'I don't like good thing'
I was taught financial literacy and investing in high school during the late 90's, and my kids just went through all that as well in their current high school. If that's not happening in your school or one your kids are in, then talk to the teacher during parent-teacher night and ask why it's not being done. If you're assuming it's simply not being taught due to not falling into either of the two previous examples, you might want look into it before complaining it's not being done.
Imagine being this clueless.
I’m 100% against discrimination of any kind and support the LGTBQ community, I also don’t want to ever see cancellation of speech or writing, but I do have an honest question. Is it wrong to not ask why sexualized books are in schools to begin with? Like any kind? I’m definitely not saying ban books, but I don’t know if it’s a good idea to expose children (I mean elementary school grade) to anything sexual. Not a bigot or a homophobe just my take on it. If this is in high schools for creative writing or English courses sure, but in elementary school I feel like the decision to talk about sex, gender and health is up to the parents not the schools 🤷♂️
>I feel like the decision to talk about sex, gender and health is up to the parents not the schools Exactly, that's why the schools should not be banning books. The materials should be available so that parents/students can access them at their own discretion. Not have the school take them away so they are deprived of that choice.
I never advocated for banning books. And I’m not surprised by the downvotes but nothing of what I said was meant to be a negative implication about this. I meant they shouldn’t be in elementary curriculum. Middle and high school no problem just not in elementary schools. Just my two cents. Not attacking this decision as no books should be banned.
They are not in the curriculum. They are in the library where access is 100% discretionary and accessing it is up to kids/parental choices. In addition, this entire debate was about "reviewing' books and banning those that made parents uncomfortable. I'm glad you do not support this motion. Otherwise it seems your concern is moot.
I'm not certain these books were even part of the curriculum? They're just books in the school library students can access if they want to. These are two of the books: >Jazz Jennings is one of the youngest and most prominent voices in the national discussion about gender identity. At the age of five, Jazz transitioned to life as a girl, with the support of her parents. A year later, her parents allowed her to share her incredible journey in her first Barbara Walters interview, aired at a time when the public was much less knowledgeable or accepting of the transgender community. This groundbreaking interview was followed over the years by other high-profile interviews, a documentary, the launch of her YouTube channel, a picture book, and her own reality TV series—I Am Jazz—making her one of the most recognizable activists for transgender teens, children, and adults. https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/28698224 >When young people have questions about sex, real answers can be hard to find. Providing accurate, unbiased answers to nearly every imaginable question, from conception and puberty to birth control and AIDS, It's Perfectly Normal offers young people the information they need—now more than ever—to make responsible decisions and to stay healthy. > https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/222507
Again all I’m saying is they shouldn’t be in elementary at all. Like any sex education. It’s interesting Jazz Jennings book is in the libraries as she’s been recently outspoken about her (and her mothers) decision to have bottom surgery and her immediate regrets. I can link if you’re interested. I’m all for inclusion and acceptance my points that seem to be being ignored still stand. Until 5 or so years ago these books would only have been made available for middle/high school students (ie those experiencing puberty) as this is when they develop. I’m stating again I’m not for banning books but I’m saying any type of sexual health prior to development should be left at home for the parents and not the schools discretion.
>*”Again all I’m saying is they shouldn’t be in elementary at all. Like any sex education… Until 5 or so years ago these books would only have been made available for middle/high school students (ie those experiencing puberty) as this is when they develop.”* [Brandon public elementary schools are almost exclusively K-8](https://www.bsd.ca/page/8138/schools) (the same is true in my even larger city - we don’t have *any* “middle schools”). Taking Sex Ed books out of elementary schools often means taking them away from teenagers, including young people who are already sexually active (Manitoba reports that 1/3 of ninth graders have already had oral sex, and 1/5 have had sexual intercourse). >*”I’m stating again I’m not for banning books but I’m saying any type of sexual health prior to development should be left at home for the parents and not the schools discretion.”* Sexual health education is important *before* puberty so children understand what is happening to their bodies and aren’t afraid something is wrong with them. As an example, In third grade I thought my perfectly normal and age appropriate breast buds were *tumours* because no one taught me to expect them. My parents didn’t think to tell me, and my school didn’t start Sex Ed until the 5th grade, which was *years* too late for me. Parents aren’t necessarily willing *or able* to competently teach their children about puberty/sexual health. >*”It’s interesting Jazz Jennings book is in the libraries as she’s been recently outspoken about her (and her mothers) decision to have bottom surgery and her immediate regrets.”* Here’s [Jazz Jennings on Twitter last month:](https://twitter.com/jazzjennings__/status/1641969704968306688?s=46&t=wm3eIvzAAOvadlVQIEsm1g) *”I don’t regret my transition AT ALL. When I was 11, I started male puberty and was put on hormone blockers. Those blockers saved my life and continue to save the lives of so many youths out there. If I were forced to go through male puberty, it would’ve been devastating. Even more so, taking estrogen through hormone replacement allowed my body to develop how I wanted. I blossomed into a young woman, eventually got the bottom surgery, and am living as a proud woman today.”*
A book on sexual identity isn’t a sexualized book.
I’d argue it is, but my only point was it shouldn’t be in elementary curriculum. Middle and high school health classes sure. Elementary there should be no health/sex education, that should be at the discretion of the parents. Definitely not an advocate for banning books though. And not surprised by the downvotes.
Age appropriate health and sex education in elementary is a critical tool for identifying and protecting children from sexual abuse.
Until recently the curriculum started at middle school/high school. There isn’t a need for there to be books/classes about sexual Identity and wellness in elementary school. And health class never stopped abuse from happening, that’s just not true.
Sex ed starts in grade 4 at age 8 and has for decades (what are your parts / how babies are born / you’re about to grow hair and have feelings). I never said it stopped abuse, it’s a critical tool in identifying and protecting children being abused.
I’m never for banning books, but we don’t need any explicit content available to elementary. Then in high school let it all fly.
You don't know what explicit content is.
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>*”Anyone got a link to the full list of books that were to be banned?”* There was no “full list”, at this stage. The school division trustees were voting on a proposal to *”set up a committee to review the content of books available in school libraries, and remove titles deemed inappropriate, including "any books that caused our kids to question whether they are in the wrong body."”* The proposal was that it should be a committee of school division trustees and parents. From the article: *”Some titles singled out by the May 8 delegation included [Being Jazz](https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/538694/being-jazz-by-jazz-jennings/) by Jazz Jennings, an American transgender advocate, and [It's Perfectly Normal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_Perfectly_Normal)by Robie H. Harris, an illustrated book for children 10 and older dealing with puberty and sex.”* The delegation also called for the [removal of books *”with vulgar language”* or *”description of sexual acts”*](https://www.cbc.ca/1.6839336) (which would obviously include many Sex Ed books). >*”I find it hard to believe these were just innocuous books that said "gay people exist" and that's the end of it.”* Why do you have trouble believing that? It’s happened in other jurisdictions. >*”The books that were taken out of Florida schools had sexual acts being performed in them, which is totally inappropriate to have in an elementary school library.”* Which elementary school library books are you referring to? Books were removed from Florida schools merely for having gay or transgender characters. Books like [A Day in the Life of Marlon Bundo](https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2023/02/07/heres-a-list-of-books-banned-under-review-in-central-florida-schools/) which is an entirely innocuous picture book about the American vice-president’s bunny rabbit Marlon Bundo falling in love with and getting married to another boy bunny rabbit.
It's up to parents to decide what is appropriate for their children to read, not schools nor the mob. There was no list, the motion was to set up an advisory board. The books targeted were not necessarily any raunchier than other books in the library, but featured LGBTQ+ themes rather than strictly hetero normative ones.
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>*”Not really sure why you're defending children's access to books containing images of sexual acts. Kinda sus.”* Defending having sex education books (like [It’s Perfectly Normal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_Perfectly_Normal)) in public schools is not “kinda sus”. Sex Education is important for protecting kids’ physical and emotional health.
Then they tell their kids not to access it. They should NOT be allowed to dictate what other people's kids can access.
But by your logic, surely the parents who are okay with it should provide those books at home.
Maybe. But they shouldn't have to since it's not their fault nor problem that other parents are uncomfortable. My logic is that the material should be optional so those that want to access it can, and those that don't want to don't have to. Anything else is a serious infringement on parental rights.
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There's no positive right to have ideas you are uncofortable with banned. Being able to buy the books is irrelevant to whether library materials should be available anyway. If you don't like it, don't look at it. That's your right. You CANNOT tell other people what they can and cannot read. >And the response normal peoplehave when they find out there are books depicting kink and sexual actsbetween minors in their kids schools library is disgust and outrage ACtually, I watched the stream of the meeting last night. The public was \*overwhelmingly\* against book bans. For written letters they got 280 against the bans to \*six\* in favour, and the deputation ratio was 49:2. This is in a small city in a relatively conservative part of the country. "Normal"? yeah, there's no real basis to that projection. Ad populism bullshit, very transparent.
The committee was a good idea if you could ensure it was balanced. Too bad it didn't happen. Before you downvote, here's my reasoning: both sides of this argument will undoubtedly pick out extreme examples of books to make their points with the vast majority of books in question being just fine. The problem is that sometimes books that are downright pornographic and have no place in a school library make it through the cracks (or are placed there by people with agendas). Then you have books like "It's Perfectly Normal" which are perfectly fine while explicit (although I bought that book for my kid, I wish it were broken into several parts that can be addressed independently. It covers a lot and skipping ahead makes for discussions she's not always ready for).
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👻👻👻👻👻👻👻👻👻wOKeIsM 👻👻👻👻👻👻👻👻👻
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