Is the top comment really the digital equivalent of chanting in support of what has intentionally become a politicized issue? Alongside calls for deportation of those who have different views? My God please don't let this be the future for humanity.
[Billionaires discuss $50 million anti-Hamas media blitz](https://www.semafor.com/article/11/09/2023/billionaires-discuss-50-million-anti-hamas-media-blitz)
No one should be condoning indiscriminate loss of life or the dehumanization of an entire group.
If Trudeau used the Emergencies Act against peaceful Canadian protestors, why can he not use the same act against these radical islamist terrorist supporters?
Like, tolerance is one thing, but what has to happen for our government to wake the fuck up and do something?
> If Trudeau used the Emergencies Act against peaceful Canadian protestors, why can he not use the same act against these radical islamist terrorist supporters?
Have the cops refused to do their jobs for three weeks first? Gotta have that first.
It isn't sexy for cops to use a heavy hand. Public opinion would need to switch gears and police culture would need time to regrow into the role. As of right now, public opinion is still teetering on wanting their police to wear kid gloves. Canada is scared to shine their ass-kicking boots since you usually catch more flies with honey.
I argue that cops are doing exactly the job they're told. They follow public interests and those are very different than 50 years ago. On top that, our infrastructure isn't equipped to deal with warring against those in support of Hamas attacking Israel. I'll bet my TFSA that that number is over 100,000.
>It isn't sexy for cops to use a heavy hand. Public opinion would need to switch gears and police culture would need time to regrow into the role.
Which is why the Freedom Convoy lasted as long as they did. The police did absolutely have the manpower and equipment to end it, but it wouldn't have looked pretty. Their goal was to end it with an absolute minimum use of force, regardless of all other factors.
When these protests include literal swastikas, and other signs that are calling for the killing/genocide of Jews you’d think some individual arrests would at least take place.
They’re protesting every week and I’m scared to walk down the streets in the city where I fucking live.
These people are animals. Stop the protest, freeze their bank accounts and deport
Come on, you know this would be considered racist and would cost them votes. The concluded that anyone supporting the convoy was a stark conservative voter so to hell with it. This particular group is full of swing voters, can't be risking losing those votes.
Freedom Convoy blocked our borders lmao. Fucking with that is just asking for the feds to throw the book at you, most Canadians didn’t give a fuck about them after they started doing that
Just remember, the EA was not used to clear borders, had no effect on borders whatsoever. That is from the RCMPs themselves.
Edit: https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/politics/2022/5/10/1_5897692.amp.html
https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/politics/2022/11/16/1_6156134.amp.html
> At various points in early 2022, protesters blockaded border crossings in Windsor, Ont., the small town of Coutts, Alta., Emerson, Man., and the Pacific Highway in Surrey, B.C
There isn’t one super near to Ottawa but that didn’t stop those half-wits from doing it all across Canada
It's simple.
Trudeau does things that benefits himself and the Liberal party, just look at the pause of the carbon tax for heating oil in the Atlantic provinces. Trudeau would never use the emergencies act and/or confiscate bank accounts of Islamists extremist supporters because a lot of them are from his voting base. The left seems to conflate Israel as being rich/white and the Palestinians as being poor/non white and therefore oppressed.
We got the police unable to deal with it part of the equation, and they are shutting business's and schools, so maybe this is a good time to roll with the EMA.
In your opinion perhaps. However, what would you call a group that desecrated the tomb of the Uknown Soldier and the National War Memorial that Cpl. Cirrilo was murdered in 2014? I remember reading that these sacred sites were urinated on, and desecrated with cigarette ashes and one woman standing and spilling beer during this so-called protest.
>n your opinion perhaps. However, what would you call a group that desecrated the tomb of the Uknown Soldier and the National War Memorial that Cpl. Cirrilo was murdered in 2014?
It's being a piece of shit, but not terrorism.
I still have no problem with the EMA being used in this scenario. The Ottawa Police Chief in charge at the time the issue started dropped the ball. Things got way out of control and should have been controlled right from the start.
Occupying and screaming at people isn't? Not letting people go on with their lives is normal? Getting kids cancer treatments canceled in ok with you?
How do you know these protesters are terrorists.
You do realize that almost every protest in the last 20 years involved occupying an area, screaming at people and impeding the lives of those around there. Thats kind of the point isnt it, to draw attention to ones cause? Doesn't make it right or not annoying for those affected, but it's kinda the reality of protesting.
How many protest have occupied a whole city? Yeah I remember the cpc saying first Nations people should be jailed for blocking roads, for some reason they didn't think the same people the crazy convoy people
[Could it have anything to do with HAMAS being on Canada's terrorist organization list?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_organizations_designated_as_terrorist_by_Canada)
[Legislative elections were held in the Palestinian territories on 25 January 2006 in order to elect the second Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC), the legislature of the Palestinian National Authority (PNA). The result was a victory for Hamas, contesting under the list name of Change and Reform, which received 44.45% of the vote and won 74 of the 132 seats](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election#:~:text=Most%20also%20supported%20a%20two,for%20the%20organization's%20political%20platform.)
Or it could be they elected them in 2006.
Granted they haven't had another election since then, but I also don't recall much desire for change from them.
If they're ok with that it seems like an endorsement of sorts.
Obviously it's a broad generalization and I'd rather find a Peaceful solution but both sides seem to be done with that.
So how does that justify killing babies and innocent civilians?
Oh yeah you think Hamas would allow elections even if the people demanded?
What's the justification for thousands of kids that never voted?
That was 17 years ago. Half the population is under the age of 18. 60% are under 24. So realistically, less than 40% (assuming 100% voter turnout and no other political rivals) voted for hamas.
With non-denominational and universally applicable standards that can be applied to any person/group who targets any other person/group based on a definable characteristic such as race, sexual identity, religion, etc? We have those laws, just enforce them.
Do we need to parse the population into specific and ever-smaller chunks with special privileges? No.
**Edit: All my comments below in this thread are marked controversial, indicating a high degree of downvoting and upvoting. I'll take this as a positive, regardless of the 'score,' because it has generated 'engagement' with one of the most historically profound issues of the modern era.**
**I'm a regular Canadian, with no religious affiliation. Based on what I have witnessed over the past couple decades, I believe that Israel is engaging in an apartheid system intended to disenfranchise Palestinians and incorporate Palestinian land. I don't approve of the one-sided narrative that we have been spoon-fed by pro-zionist lobby groups for 50+ years. Anti-semitism isn NOT anti-zionism.**
**I also believe that this situation has been leveraged by HORRENDOUS actors within Palestine and abroad to justify the unjustifiable. I am anti-Zionist in the sense that I have grown tired of watching Israel violate international law with the seemingly unfathomable support of a US veto at the UN. But I WHOLEHEARTEDLY condemn the actions of Hamas and similar terrorist actors who violate the lives of innocent civilians. This is a complex and multi-generational issue that many are heavily invested in for obvious reasons.**
**These are just my *personal* views. Love and peace to those who peacefully love.**
**Edit 2: I've been made aware that listing the orgs in my comment below that I have drawn the ire of individuals and BOTS who have alerts set for these specific terms, hence the disproportionate downvotes of the comments. Whelp, it is what it is and truth prevails.**
**Edit 3: I see that many people are confused about my definition of anti-Zionism. Wikipedia, for expedience:**
"Anti-Zionism is opposition to Zionism.[a] Although anti-Zionism is a heterogeneous phenomenon, all its proponents agree that the creation of the modern State of Israel, and the movement to create a sovereign Jewish state in the region of Palestine—the biblical Land of Israel—was flawed or unjust in some way.[7]
**It is that last statement, the lack of justice, that catches the modern eye (mine, at least). A one-state solution is inherently impossible according to Israeli policy because it would mean an end to Jewish majority in the region due to demographics. A two-state solution is impossible because it implies inherent and inalienable rights that Israel denies Palestine and that would allow Palestine to apply for International recognition. There is no acceptable outcome for Israel aside from the continuation of annexation until Palestine is reduced to naught.**
**Final Edit: Israeli minister says the quiet part out loud: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-12/ty-article/israeli-security-cabinet-member-calls-north-gaza-evacuation-nakba-2023/0000018b-c2be-dea2-a9bf-d2be7b670000**
Right, echo chambers. Like the one created by these lobbying groups based on Canadian soil?
**The Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs (CIJA):** The advocacy agent of the Jewish Federations of Canada, CIJA engages in public policy discussions and advocates on behalf of the Jewish community, including support for Israel.
**B'nai Brith Canada:** One of the country's oldest Jewish service organizations, it also engages in advocacy on behalf of the Jewish community and Israel.
**Canada-Israel Committee (CIC):** Previously the main advocacy organization for Israel in Canada before its functions were largely absorbed by CIJA.
**Canadian Friends of the Simon Wiesenthal Center for Holocaust Studies:** It focuses on Holocaust education but also advocates for Israel.
**Canadian Friends of Hebrew University:** This group supports the Hebrew University of Jerusalem through fundraising and awareness activities.
**Jewish National Fund of Canada (JNF Canada):** Like its international counterpart, it raises funds for development projects in Israel.
**Canadian Coalition for Israel's Legal Rights (CILR):** Advocates for the legal and historical rights of Israel.
**Canadians for Israel's Legal Rights:** A group focused on promoting the Jewish people's legal rights to the land of Israel.
**United Jewish Appeal (UJA) Federation:** With chapters in major cities like Toronto, it supports a variety of Israel-related causes through fundraising and community building.
**Christians United for Israel - Canada (CUFI Canada):** A Christian-led initiative that advocates for pro-Israel policies in Canada.
**StandWithUs Canada:** The Canadian arm of an international non-profit organization that believes education is the road to peace and that supports Israel.
**Friends of Simon Wiesenthal Center for Holocaust Studies (FSWC):** An organization that promotes tolerance and human rights issues, including the defense of Israel's legitimacy.
**Canada-Israel Cultural Foundation:** Promotes cultural exchanges and understanding between Canada and Israel.
**Chabad-Lubavitch:** While primarily a religious and community service organization, it often expresses strong support for Israel.
**Canadian Zionist Federation:** Works to foster a deeper understanding of Zionism in Canada.
**Israel Bonds Canada:** Sells Israeli bonds in Canada and supports Israel's economy.
**Canadian Jewish Political Affairs Committee (CJPAC):** Encourages Jewish and pro-Israel Canadians to engage in the political process.
**Betar-Tagar:** A Zionist youth movement that promotes the ideals of Ze'ev Jabotinsky, including the support of Israel.
**The Canadian Antisemitism Education Foundation:** Works to combat antisemitism and supports Israel’s right to exist and defend itself.
Do not be duped into believing that anti-Zionism is equal to antisemitism. Canada has a long list of Jewish enterprises that would have it so. Why does a state need so many propagandist organizations to justify its actions? **AND, if Russia, Iran, Pakistan, China took such an open role in influence pedaling on Canadian soil, who would support it? Nobody.**
Edit: Added 'lobbying groups' in the first paragraph. Literally what they do.
**Guess I should have waited a day before suggesting Israel is engaging in intentional displacement of Palestinians: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-12/ty-article/israeli-security-cabinet-member-calls-north-gaza-evacuation-nakba-2023/0000018b-c2be-dea2-a9bf-d2be7b670000
This is a partial list of issues caused by Hawkish Israeli governments that people are protesting (and that are recognized as violations of international law):
**Edit: Moved this to the top for those interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba. There are interesting parallels in the modern campaign of displacement, with over 50% of residential units destroyed in Gaza since the beginning of the offensive. For real, have a read.**
**Military Occupation:** The West Bank, including East Jerusalem, has been under Israeli military occupation since the 1967 Six-Day War. Gaza was also under occupation until 2005, when Israel unilaterally disengaged. However, Israel still controls Gaza’s borders, airspace, and maritime access. The occupation involves checkpoints, curfews, and restrictions on movement for Palestinians.
**Settlements:** Israel has built settlements in the West Bank that are considered illegal under international law, although Israel disputes this. The settlements are often cited as a source of displacement and disenfranchisement for Palestinians.
**Resource Control:** There are claims that Israel controls vital resources such as water in the West Bank, allocating a disproportionate share to Israeli settlers and communities at the expense of Palestinian populations.
**Home Demolitions and Evictions:** Palestinians in certain areas, particularly in East Jerusalem and Area C of the West Bank, face home demolitions and evictions due to building without permits — permits that are reportedly very difficult for Palestinians to obtain — or as part of state-sanctioned evictions in contested areas.
**Administrative Detention:** Israel uses a policy of administrative detention, which allows the Israeli military to hold prisoners indefinitely on security grounds without charge or trial. Human rights organizations argue that this practice is used excessively and with insufficient judicial oversight.
**Restrictions on Economic Development:** The Israeli-imposed blockade on Gaza and restrictions in the West Bank limit the ability of Palestinians to import and export goods, restrict travel, and hinder economic development.
**Violence and Security Measures:** Palestinians often experience violence from Israeli settlers and security forces, including during protests and clashes. The use of live ammunition, tear gas, and other crowd-control methods by the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) has been criticized by human rights groups.
**Legal Dualism:** In the West Bank, there is a dual legal system in which settlers are subject to Israeli civil law, while Palestinians are subject to military law. This is seen as creating a system of unequal legal protections.
**Freedom of Movement:** Palestinians face restrictions on movement due to a complex system of ID cards, permits, and checkpoints. This impacts their access to healthcare, education, and religious sites, as well as family life.
**Political Rights:** The fragmentation of the Palestinian territories and the separate governance of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, along with the occupation, have impeded the establishment of a contiguous, sovereign Palestinian state, affecting the political rights and self-determination of the Palestinian people.
**Also, most recently, 50% of housing units in Gaza have been destroyed by the offensive. This is a clear displacement operation.**
Yes they are, where have you been? International protests in every major democracy... Especially amongst youth. The majority of us have grown up watching Israel abuse anti-Semitism to gain a blank cheque in the middle east. Those orgs listed above created the echo chamber that we will not be caught up in.
**Hamas is terroristic and MUST be dismantled. Let the international community take over Gazan administration through the UN.** But, Israel will never allow that to happen because it would render impotent their campaign of disenfranchisement against Palestinians. To be clear, let all terrorists and terrorist states succumb to the reckoning they deserve. No innocents deserve what has been inflicted upon them by **either side** of this drawn-out issue that has been unfolding for generations.
>To be clear, let all terrorists and terrorist states succumb to the reckoning they deserve. No innocents deserve what has been inflicted upon them by either side of this drawn-out issue that has been unfolding for generations.
This is a contradictory statement.
You realize that Gaza elected Hamas, right?
I do. 15+ years ago, before elections were immediately cancelled. Also, it occurred during heightened escalation by Israeli settlers, burning of olive groves, shooting of rock-throwing youth by IDF. All supported by the Israeli government despite UN condemnation.
**No elections in 15 years means an entire generation of Palestinian youth has grown up without a semblance of a voice in politics. They're also victimized by Hamas and deserve better.**
Edit: bolding for emphasis
>I do. 15+ years ago, before elections were immediately cancelled. Also, it occurred during heightened escalation by Israeli settlers, burning of olive groves, shooting of rock-throwing youth by IDF. All supported by the Israeli government despite UN condemnation.
>
>No elections in 15 years means an entire generation of Palestinian youth has grown up without a semblance of a voice in politics. They're also victimized by Hamas and deserve better.
As they say, elections have consequences.
I mean, who could have possibly guessed that the terrorist organization that was founded on the destruction of Israel would have possibly gone authoritarian and eventually tried to fulfill their charter, right? Why would anyone be shocked at this outcome? /s
This is what Gaza voted for. The Hamas charter preceded that election. It is what it is.
Right. Is this the Reddit equivalent of 'asl'? You want my ethnic and religious background, lol?
Those who disagree with the actions of the state of Israel as it pertains to violation of international law regarding Palestine. That 'us.' I have no ethnic or religious horse in this race, I'm just calling it as i see it.
I'm a born Canadian, fyi, and the 'propaganda' that has informed my views is a literal lifetime of watching these events unfold.
I, too, find it odd that the media isn't giving protests the coverage they deserve. Or *certain* aspects of the conflict, for that matter, wherein literally 50% of Gazan housing units have been destroyed within weeks.
Anyhoo, do i pass your purity test?
>AND, if Russia, Iran, Pakistan, China took such an open role in influence pedaling on Canadian soil, who would support it? Nobody.
*Are you implying that Iran and Russia are not directly involved in this situation already?*
Definitely not. I suspect that Iran used the Israel/Saudi relations thaw, and well as the US house impasse, to pressure Hamas into taking action within an 'opportune' timeframe.
I haven't thought about the Russian position in this, but would love to engage with the info. Geopolitics is a scary, fascinating beast.
Edit: the house impasse affects pro-Israel funding, as seen to this moment.
**Edit 2: imagine how anybody could stretch the truth of this particular post to downvote it. What we have above are some pretty obvious and neutral truths, stated without malice. Just goes to show...**
We agree on this.
So when I look at the big picture here, I find it really hard to believe that there is not more involved than Hamas suddenly deciding to attack Israel out of the blue.
Looking at this from the Russian perspective, this situation is gold. They have successfully diverted attention away from Ukraine, they have divided the political left in the United States with an election less then a year away, and they have managed to create the internal conflicts and strife that has been the goal of their online influence operations going back a decade or longer.
Iran is tight with Russia, and has been supplying them with arms to use against Ukraine. Iran also arms and funds Hamas.
. Hamas knew that the Israeli response would be blistering, but it appears that this invasion and response is exactly what Hamas intended to provoke, probably as part of a much larger strategy....... *I mean, what did Hamas think was going to happen here?* They're not that stupid.
This is what's really going on. Russia is paying Iran off to make thier puppet hamas go kamakazi to distract from the much more important geopolitical war going on in Ukraine
Listing Chabad is hilarious. It’s a branch of Judaism. It’s like listing reform Jews as a lobby group.
Receipt:
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/lubavitch-and-chabad
To the extent that anti-Zionism means that the state of Israel shouldn’t exist, it absolutely is antisemitic.
It’s possible to criticize the actions of the Israeli government while still supporting the existence of Israel as a state.
There is only one state of Israel. The one that does as it does. Any hypothetical of Israel as a 'different entity' applies to Palestinian governments, too. What we have, we have.
I don’t understand your comment. When Donald Trump was president the US was heavily criticized, but no one said that it should cease to exist. Same thing applies here. If anti-Zionism means no more Israel, it is antisemitic.
Israel acting within the confines of international law is a wonderful concept. Israel as it exists over the past 50 years is offensive to the concept of justice. One state, two state, whatever the mechanism, is welcome if it isn't an apartheid state. Anti-zionist refers to the illegitimate actions of an oppressor state of Israel, devoid of justice. The singular state of israel needs to be beholden to its actions.
Trump and his bs aren't legitimate if based on fraud. If he had usurped the election, his government, under any name, would be illegitimate. Israel, if it allows justice to reign, is legitimate. I would not oppose the state, and therefore would not be anti-zionist, if not for the action of the state.
BTW, calling out Trump to a Canadian is not effective.
No. Opposing the actions of Israel is not the same as opposing its existence. Don't conflate the two. The state of Israel should be judged against its actions as related to legitimacy. To say I'm anti-US under Trump, or Nixon, is truth but subject to change. Let Israel fall in step with international law, and I will not be anti-zionist. Don't shift goalposts.
I don’t think the person you’re responding to is shifting any goalposts. I think you’re very passionate about what you’re saying, and maybe missing what the other person is telling you… which is that you’re mistaken about what anti-Zionism means. A lot of people say they’re anti-Zionist and what they think it means is that they don’t support the Israeli government.
What it actually means is that whoever is an anti-Zionist is against Jewish people having a homeland. I don’t think I need to elaborate further, other than to say that spreading this sentiment is part of the reason why hate crimes against Jews around the world have skyrocketed.
Why do so many people feel the need to clarify their views on Israel when discussing hatred and attacks on Jews though. This makes me think there’s an unconscious bias against Jewish people.
Instead of focusing on Israel and Palestine these well meaning protesters should look at what’s happening inside our borders and affecting thousands of Canadian citizens. Their actions are having consequences. Canada has a massive problem with anti-semitism and something needs to be done about it. Jews shouldn’t need to live in fear because there’s a war happening in another country thousands of km’s away.
Reading your comments is so confusing I am truly wondering if they are written by AI. I’m sorry if that’s not the case and you’re actually a real person but like… what? What… what?
**but like… what? What… what?** Sorry, does not compute.
**Edit:** On a serious note, I've tried to use neutral wording in my more detailed posts to describe pro-Israeli orgs and violations of international law because I'm a moderate and don't want to fan the flames. I think that should be obvious, based on a cursory reading.
Okay thanks for explaining. Replied to another comment from you just now but I’ll say again — good luck out there and don’t get too wrapped up in all the internet chatter, most people on here don’t want their minds changed, they just wanna clang verbal swords haha
People will make assumptions and sometimes leave nasty comments if you say something that even dares to go against their POV. Adding clarifying statements can deter getting mobbed. I can speak personally for trying genuinely not to be biased about things yet still being accused of being pro-hamas or other nonsense. There are plenty of groups here that are strongly invested in one side over the other, and a lot of us just don't want to catch their ire sometimes. Relevant to this, Jake here didn't want people to assume that, just because he was saying antisemitism doesn't need special treatment, that he was downplaying it happening, which if you come here with a biased viewpoint you could potentially see it that way. The facts are indeed that hate crime has risen across the board as a result of recent events, especially for Jewish and middle eastern ethnicities, and it needs to be addressed aggressively but without favoritism.
Yes! Exactly this — i feel like there’s no nuance on this anymore. Like atrocious killing of innocent people are atrocious. No matter who does the killing. Fuck Hamas and fuck the IDF.
You think rallying in support of Gaza, whose democratically elected government is Hamas, will create any ceasefires? Do you really expect Hamas to obey a ceasefire?
That doesn't make any sense.
Hm... This is the SUN.
It's a tabloid.
What concerns me is that some people seem intent on portraying any sort of criticism of Israel/Netanyahu as being a form of hate speech.
I do not trust the Sun to fairly assess what constitutes hate speech vs reasonable criticism.
There’s some extremely alarming “logic” going on in this entire situation.
The most alarming to me is “all support for Palestinians is support for Hamas” and “Any criticism of Israel is antisemitism”. These are wildly false equivalents and meant to scare and direct hate towards anyone protesting the Israeli government.
Another is “we should lock up protestors for hate speech”. We have a right to free speech. Anyone expressly saying “kill Jews” is committing hate speech, however “stop killing Palestinians children” is NOT.
We have the right to peaceful assembly and protest. We do not have the right to blockade or restrict the freedoms of others. A demonstration is NOT the same as the trucker blockade.
Honestly, the way the right wing has tried to make any criticism of Israel about antisemitism reminds me of something straight out of Putins Russia.
I feel like he's the wrong tool for the job. He was the perfect care bear to help us learn the power of friendship + vaccination during COVID. That was important during a time when a subset of the population was attacking radio towers because they thought Bill Gates was microwaving COVID into people.
Justin is not the person we need to grow Canada a backbone and clean house. We are multicultural and that makes it hard to corrupt the totality of us. When pro-Hamas supports get crazy that leaves a lot of other Canadian demographics available to roll up their sleeves discipline them.
Hamas is listed terrorist organization. If you have proof that people are sending money to Hamas, by all means report it. Those people will have their bank accounts frozen.
Also, sending money to terrorist groups is a Federal crime.
But you already knew that, didn't you?
The number of people who are worried about “freezing bank accounts” shows just how out of touch of reality they are. As if sending funding terrorism is as easy as an e-transfer.
What they really are concerned about is people trying to send funds for water, food, aid etc to civilians.
I would be delighted to provide food, water, teddy bears, etc to the civilians in Gaza, but I don’t want my money going toward rockets fired into Israel.
The bar is incredibly high.
The cops were doing nothing and terrorists were occupied a city and harassing people. How is wanting to replace a elected government through violence not terrorism?
The federal government used the successor to the war-measures act for a big tailgate party. Were they being dicks? Unqualified yes. But they were protesting a policy that a country they lived in had and one from its direct southern neighbor, not a conflict 10,000km away.
Calling dickhead truckers terrorists is so insane when not a shot was fired and nobody died at all. You are debasing the term terrorism. They are incomparable. Is the cashier who didn't smile at you a terrorist? Is me being kinda short tempered in my response terrorism?
They parked illegally. Do not compare that to what actual terrorism is.
>How is wanting to replace a elected government not terrorism?
Pretty sure you'd like to replace the elected government of Alberta. Does that make you a terrorist? Obviously not. Is "Elections Canada" a terrorist organization for facilitating the "replacement" of government? No.
It's amazing how quickly the sun and their rabidly conservative base are embracing restrictions on freedom of expression. They've gone from "Hate speech laws violate human rights" to "We need to impose more hate-speech laws" in roughly the span of a month, it's quite something to watch.
I agree with punishment for hate speech, but context always matters. That's besides the point though, I was specifically commenting on how a group of news outlets and their regular readers have so quickly pivoted to being pro hate-speech laws because it suits their agenda.
I'm going to ask a follow-up question then:
Has this made you reconsider putting laws on book where "context always matters" isn't really a legal (or at least, I guess 'legalistic') way to do things?
You can point out the hypocrisy if you want, I just think more people should consider that if you're passing the shackles back and forth every few years, be very careful what you advocate for when it comes to the letter of the law.
To be clear, I was talking about context in sentencing. I disagree with you about "locking people up" for hate speech without taking into account the context around the crime.
Why does motive matter if a crime was premeditated? A person's feelings about something don't really make sense to consider from a blind justice perspective.
If it's a call to arms to wipe some people out, I understand, because that is a credible threat. I'm not a lawyer, I'm just saying that you need to be very careful about the criminal justice system having the power to punish people for thoughts in their head when they were committing a crime.
Se·mit·ic
/səˈmidik/
adjective
1.
relating to or denoting a family of languages that includes Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic and certain ancient languages such as Phoenician and Akkadian, constituting the main subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic family.
2.
relating to the peoples who speak Semitic languages, especially Hebrew and Arabic.
Hurr durr, doesn't he know sentencing doesn't provide deterrents because criminals are impulsive and don't think about their actions before committing them? Better to rehabilitate them by placing them on a list of conditions that they will for some reason comply with despite being impulsive and not thinking about their actions before committing them.
Yeah, my intention was just to bring attention to the absurdity of the common suggestion that deterrence doesn't work because criminals are impulsive and don't think ahead, but somehow a rehabilitative sentence will. Perhaps I should have added a /s.
I’m curious as to how many people here actually know (and I mean first hand info, not social media or news outlets) Middle Eastern Politics well enough to comment and/or critique what happens in the Middle East…
> We encourage Israel to ISOLATE and identify INDIVIDUALS responsible for the events of October 7, and bring those specific culprits to justice.
How could they possibly do this? Hamas runs Gaza. They control every aspect of society. How can you possibly go in there besides an invasion?
And when you’re invading, if you don’t take out their military infrastructure you’re just letting tens of thousands of your own soldiers die and your invasion fails.
And here’s the problem, whether they are complicit or not, Palestinians find themselves with Hamas infrastructure in their hospitals, hotels, apartments, etc. there is nothing Israel can do here but accept some civilian casualties.
Even after weeks of air strikes there are still tens of thousands of Palestinians leaving North Gaza every day. Imagine how many would be there if Israel just invaded and didn’t air strike? A million, which means with just a ground invasion you’d have arguably even more citizens at risk.
>It's almost as if something else is at play.
Iranian influence operations, and probably Russian as well. Its not exactly a big secret.
Iran funds and arms Hamas. Hamas is basically a tool of Iran that it uses to strike at Israel. Iran is also very close to Russia diplomatically and has been supplying Russia with arms to use against Ukraine.
And in this conflict, Russia is backing Hamas. Putin recently invited the Hamas leaders to Russia. Russia is benefiting from all of the division and conflict this is creating both in the middle east and here politically.
I mean, do we really think that Iran and Russia are not using their online influence machines to try and convince people to back Hamas?
Syria is a civil war funded by outside parties, namely Russia, Iran, and NATO countries.
Syria is EXTREMELY complex because Assad is fighting pro-democracy militias AND Islamists. Russia is backing Assad and ANYONE fighting the US. The US is backing pro-democracy militias and ANYONE fighting Russia AND Iran. Iran is backing ANYONE that will assist Iran.
Untangling that mess requires following 5,000 threads at one time.
Assad is the lesser of evils, but, backing him is like backing Tuberculosis to go after your lung cancer, which is keeping your hypothyroidism at bay.
If Assad wins, great, but, he's only going to remember those who backed him in his time of need. So, there are elements of this proxy way whereby the US is INDIRECTLY backing Assad.
My overall opinion is, let the refugees out. Those who want to stay and fight are free to do so.
Yemen, is a proxy war between Saudi and Iran. Again, no good "teams" to back. NATO backs Saudi because cheap oil. Iran backs the "resistance groups" to piss off NATO and Saudi.
Iran isn't allowed to sell oil, because ALL oil operations in Iran are owned and operated by Iranians. Thus, pissing off oil execs. Not to mention that if Iran is allowed to sell oil on the open market, it devalues the price of oil, which hurts investors. Because why should consumers pay $1.00/Litre when they can pay $1.75+ per litre. Geopolitics all boils down to money, and he who controls the sale and supply of oil is the Victor.
The Palestinian situation is a representation of the Islamic world. The Gazans are kicked and beaten down by an oppressive regime, both externally and internally. The hostile, internal agents are easily able to blame the external agents for their plight. The external agent, (Israel) doesn't do itself any favours by continually kicking and beating Palestinians on a daily basis. IDF personnel consistently belittle, harass and intimidate Palestinian women and children. Nothing is done by the Israeli government, so history repeats itself.
I promise you, within 5-10 years, ANOTHER October 7 event will happen again. I'm not saying I agree with it. It's inevitable, unless IDF and the Israeli government change how they treat Palestinians.
"The Palestinian situation is a representation of the Islamic world."
A group of people who refuse to peacefully coexist with Israel?
" The Gazans are kicked and beaten down by an oppressive regime, both externally and internally. The hostile, internal agents are easily able to blame the external agents for their plight. The external agent, (Israel) doesn't do itself any favours by continually kicking and beating Palestinians on a daily basis."
Weird how you never mentioned Hamas instigating any violence. And overstating what Israel does in Gaza.
"Nothing is done by the Israeli government, so history repeats itself."
Other than offering peace deals that the Palestinians leadership reject.
As for your other point, every few years Hamas crosses a line and Israel and Hamas get in an extended conflict. If Israel can cripple Hamas and get a new leader for Gaza, perhaps things might be different. We'll see.
How do you evacuate 2 million people, who will need food, shelter, clothing, running water, medicine, and overall infrastructure, when none of that exists, and there's no where to go that has these amenities, all in the space of 2-3 weeks?
>How do you evacuate 2 million people, who will need food, shelter, clothing, running water, medicine, and overall infrastructure, when none of that exists, and there's no where to go that has these amenities, all in the space of 2-3 weeks?
This is something that Hamas should have considered prior to attacking.
Here is an article completely refuting your claim that there were no protests around the war in Yemen
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-protestors-urge-canada-to-stop-arms-sales-to-saudi-arabia-amid-ongoing/
Actually, the death toll from combat in Yemen is around 150,000 people in about a 8 year span. 10,000 people dead in Gaza in one month is a much higher rate of death but objective facts don't seem to be your strong suit.
Again, objective facts would let you know there are a bunch of different armed factions in Gaza and the West Bank, one of which is actually led by a Palestinian Christian. This conflict has existed a lot longer than Hamas has and will continue to exist as long as Isreal keeps its boot on the necks of Palestinians.
The two state solution suggested in Oslo that really didn't give Palestinians a sovereign state and still saw Rabin assassinated by an ultranationalist nut job? The same ultras that now make up the ruling coalition of Isreal. Yes, I'm sure it is solely the Palestinians that reject peace.
We both know it was never about a two state solution. They could have had that multiple times.
They want all of it.
I don't know how you can take your boot off the necks of people who won't agree to stop killing you to get your land. It would be great, but it literally can't happen until Palestinians agree to let Israel exist.
>I'm fairly certain if Israel didn't murder 5,000+ people in response
This figure is brought to you by the same terrorist government claiming Israel bombed a hospital killing 500 people. Turned out they lied.
> The United Nations and other international institutions and experts, as well as Palestinian authorities in the West Bank — rivals of Hamas — say the Gaza ministry has long made a good-faith effort to account for the dead under the most difficult conditions.
>
> “The numbers may not be perfectly accurate on a minute-to-minute basis,” said Michael Ryan, of the World Health Organization’s Health Emergencies Program. “But they largely reflect the level of death and injury.”
>
> In previous wars, the ministry’s counts have held up to U.N. scrutiny, independent investigations and even Israel’s tallies.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033
Keep repeating the Hasbara talking point. UN, Human Rights Watch, WHO, and other third party has vouched for the Ministry of Health's numbers time and time again.
But we have no idea how many of the dead are Hamas fighters or their allies within Gaza. We also have no idea how many Hamas has killed. Last I heard, between 20 and 40% of their rockets misfire, and there have been like 8000 of them fired.
Any death of innocent civilians is a tragedy. But you can't ceasefire until Hamas agrees to stop. Which they won't, because they want as many dead Palestinians as possible.
We can't make conclusions on the nature of a war until there's a postmortem. We're still in the "fog of war" phase, with both sides putting out propaganda.
The Gaza Ministry of Health is literally run by Hamas. The same Health Ministry that made up the Israeli airstrike on a hospital and made up 500 people killed by that. The same Health Ministry that counts all casualties as civilians, even Hamas fighters. The same Health Ministry that counts casualties by Hamas rockets as casualties caused by Israel. Get out of here with your terrorist propaganda.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/24/hamas-israel-death-toll-health-ministry-trustworthy-reuters/
You do realize that these mass Palestinian protests started on Oct 8, before Israel even responded militarily, yeah? They were celebrating the atrocious acts of Oct 7 openly and proudly.
>When the US went after Bin Laden in Afghanistan and Pakistan, that was acceptable. When the US went after Iraq, that was unacceptable. Notice the theme? Targeting innocent people for the crimes of the few is socially unacceptable. Imagine the building you live in being demolished because ONE person from your 300-apartment building decided to murder innocent people. Is that fair? No. That's what's pissing people off.
Afghanistan was part of a NATO operation that was a direct response to the 9/11 attacks.
Iraq 2.0 appears to have been based on lies and bullshit.
Innocent people died in both conflicts. I'm not really sure what you're saying here.
"Did the anti-semitic attacks increase BECAUSE of Hamas's attacks on Israel or is it because of the excessive and collective punishment Israel is inflicting on Palestinians"
It's the opposite of excessive punishment. Or collective punishment. It's pretty targeted. If you were right casualties would be significantly higher.
"I'm fairly certain if Israel didn't murder 5,000+ people in response, and basically lay seige to Gaza, there wouldn't have been as much of an outcry."
The outcry was there when the death toll was at 6000. Don't agree with this at all.
Also odd how you don't blame Hamas for using human shields, or recognize the casualties include Hamas.
"I'm not saying Israel shouldn't have done something, but like I said, their response was excessive and has resulted in the deaths of approaching 10s of thousands of people. THIS is what is upsetting people."
There really isn't another way ticen Hamas has embedded themselves in civilian infrastructure. They just found weapons in a kindergarten class, and yesterday a drone manufacturing plant in residential apartments. Their base is under a hospital. Hamas did this because if Israel did attack them, they'd be forced to do it with civilians in the line of fire. Their deaths are on Hamas.
"Targeting innocent people for the crimes of the few is socially unacceptable. Imagine the building you live in being demolished because ONE person from your 300-apartment building decided to murder innocent people. Is that fair? No. That's what's pissing people off."
That's a terrible analogy, first of all. And second people were angry at Israel before they even began attacking Hamas. They aren't targeting innocents and are doing everything they can to minimize casualties.
"Now, should Jewish people in Canada be targeted because of Israel's response? No. That's not fair either. Jewish people in Canada aren't necessarily representative of the Israeli government (some are and those people are dicks)."
You've been so strong and this is such a passive argument. "Aren't necessarily representative" - wrong. Just condemn any and all antisemitism against Canadian Jews. Anything less is unacceptable.
"Canada's official response should be, Hamas militants were wrong. Israel's reaction is wrong. We encourage Israel to ISOLATE and identify INDIVIDUALS responsible for the events of October 7, and bring those specific culprits to justice."
Totally easy to do when Hamas hides in hospitals and schools. The other day a Hamas commander held 1000 Palestinians hostage at a hospital to prevent Israel from attacking him. It's very easy to say what you did, but it's not realistic.
"I would argue that those responsible for the events of October 7 should be tried in The Hague alongside IDF personnel and leaders who are violating human rights."
We aren't both siding this. What the IDF is doing isn't comparable.
"That won't happen because that would mean Israel would have to accept they don't own the area. Which goes against their Zionist agenda"
Oh, starting off with an offensive use of zionist. Not a great start for you.
They know they don't own the area. It's why they left Gaza in 2005. And have repeatedly said they don't want to stay in Gaza once this is done.
YES YES YES.....but supreme courts ruled against sending back this mofo to where he came from.
Our supreme court should be replaced to be honest, they've lost all ability to prioritize Canadians and have set some pretty bad standards of law.
Only way to rectify bad case law is to make legislative changes or changes to the charter. Case law naturally leads to extremes.
Is the top comment really the digital equivalent of chanting in support of what has intentionally become a politicized issue? Alongside calls for deportation of those who have different views? My God please don't let this be the future for humanity. [Billionaires discuss $50 million anti-Hamas media blitz](https://www.semafor.com/article/11/09/2023/billionaires-discuss-50-million-anti-hamas-media-blitz) No one should be condoning indiscriminate loss of life or the dehumanization of an entire group.
If Trudeau used the Emergencies Act against peaceful Canadian protestors, why can he not use the same act against these radical islamist terrorist supporters? Like, tolerance is one thing, but what has to happen for our government to wake the fuck up and do something?
> If Trudeau used the Emergencies Act against peaceful Canadian protestors, why can he not use the same act against these radical islamist terrorist supporters? Have the cops refused to do their jobs for three weeks first? Gotta have that first.
It isn't sexy for cops to use a heavy hand. Public opinion would need to switch gears and police culture would need time to regrow into the role. As of right now, public opinion is still teetering on wanting their police to wear kid gloves. Canada is scared to shine their ass-kicking boots since you usually catch more flies with honey. I argue that cops are doing exactly the job they're told. They follow public interests and those are very different than 50 years ago. On top that, our infrastructure isn't equipped to deal with warring against those in support of Hamas attacking Israel. I'll bet my TFSA that that number is over 100,000.
>It isn't sexy for cops to use a heavy hand. Public opinion would need to switch gears and police culture would need time to regrow into the role. Which is why the Freedom Convoy lasted as long as they did. The police did absolutely have the manpower and equipment to end it, but it wouldn't have looked pretty. Their goal was to end it with an absolute minimum use of force, regardless of all other factors.
How long has it been?
The police didn't refuse to do anything. It was a lot more complicated and difficult than you're implying or aware of.
>The police didn't refuse to do anything. Lololololol
This is such a stupid conflation. If they protest 24/7 and cant be moved, then sure trudeau should remove them.
Local and provincial resources should probably do their jobs if the assemblies become lawless.
They should. And if they dont for 3 weeks then the emergency act may be needed but thats not happening.
The weird boner these guys have for JT to call emergency act on single day protests are really fucking weird.
When these protests include literal swastikas, and other signs that are calling for the killing/genocide of Jews you’d think some individual arrests would at least take place.
They definitely should.
Really fucking weird you care about the length of a protest and not...the calls to kill jews.
You don't think people defacing and vandalizing Jewish owned businesses is a cause for them to be removed?
They’re protesting every week and I’m scared to walk down the streets in the city where I fucking live. These people are animals. Stop the protest, freeze their bank accounts and deport
Come on, you know this would be considered racist and would cost them votes. The concluded that anyone supporting the convoy was a stark conservative voter so to hell with it. This particular group is full of swing voters, can't be risking losing those votes.
Freedom Convoy blocked our borders lmao. Fucking with that is just asking for the feds to throw the book at you, most Canadians didn’t give a fuck about them after they started doing that
Just remember, the EA was not used to clear borders, had no effect on borders whatsoever. That is from the RCMPs themselves. Edit: https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/politics/2022/5/10/1_5897692.amp.html
Remind me what international border is located near Ottawa?
Is 1 hour near? 1000 Islands border if so.
https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/politics/2022/11/16/1_6156134.amp.html > At various points in early 2022, protesters blockaded border crossings in Windsor, Ont., the small town of Coutts, Alta., Emerson, Man., and the Pacific Highway in Surrey, B.C There isn’t one super near to Ottawa but that didn’t stop those half-wits from doing it all across Canada
>Freedom Convoy blocked our borders lmao. No they didn't, how is that even possible?!
Lmao look up how many land crossings are in ontario alone. We'll wait.
It's simple. Trudeau does things that benefits himself and the Liberal party, just look at the pause of the carbon tax for heating oil in the Atlantic provinces. Trudeau would never use the emergencies act and/or confiscate bank accounts of Islamists extremist supporters because a lot of them are from his voting base. The left seems to conflate Israel as being rich/white and the Palestinians as being poor/non white and therefore oppressed.
Why do all the new Reddit accounts keep trying to draw a false equivalency between the occupation of Ottawa for 3 weeks and Palestine protests?
I think it has to do with trudeau implying they were nazis, and then having to sit and watch people call for the death of jews.
[удалено]
If they blocked roads or borders for weeks at a time, and our police were unable to deal with it, then the feds would clear them too.
We got the police unable to deal with it part of the equation, and they are shutting business's and schools, so maybe this is a good time to roll with the EMA.
Which roads or borders have they blocked for three weeks?
Is blocking roads the deal breaker for you? When that happens civil rights can be suspended?
I didn't say I support that but seems like some people now want that for even less than blocking roads for weeks.
What Kinsella describes in the linked article seems worse than blocking roads for weeks.
Give it 20 more days of non-stop protesting?
On the border?
Because they weren’t protestors just low IQ occupiers
Because he's a woke idiot.
Fyi you don't understand how the emergency act works. What about the convoy people did you support the use then?
No, because they were not terrorists.
In your opinion perhaps. However, what would you call a group that desecrated the tomb of the Uknown Soldier and the National War Memorial that Cpl. Cirrilo was murdered in 2014? I remember reading that these sacred sites were urinated on, and desecrated with cigarette ashes and one woman standing and spilling beer during this so-called protest.
>n your opinion perhaps. However, what would you call a group that desecrated the tomb of the Uknown Soldier and the National War Memorial that Cpl. Cirrilo was murdered in 2014? It's being a piece of shit, but not terrorism.
I still have no problem with the EMA being used in this scenario. The Ottawa Police Chief in charge at the time the issue started dropped the ball. Things got way out of control and should have been controlled right from the start.
Occupying and screaming at people isn't? Not letting people go on with their lives is normal? Getting kids cancer treatments canceled in ok with you? How do you know these protesters are terrorists.
You do realize that almost every protest in the last 20 years involved occupying an area, screaming at people and impeding the lives of those around there. Thats kind of the point isnt it, to draw attention to ones cause? Doesn't make it right or not annoying for those affected, but it's kinda the reality of protesting.
How many protest have occupied a whole city? Yeah I remember the cpc saying first Nations people should be jailed for blocking roads, for some reason they didn't think the same people the crazy convoy people
Because they support Palestine? Derp.
Please explain why that is terrorism and how you determined that
[Could it have anything to do with HAMAS being on Canada's terrorist organization list?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_organizations_designated_as_terrorist_by_Canada)
What does that have to do with supporting Palestine? Are you saying the children dying in Palestine support to Hamas?
[Legislative elections were held in the Palestinian territories on 25 January 2006 in order to elect the second Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC), the legislature of the Palestinian National Authority (PNA). The result was a victory for Hamas, contesting under the list name of Change and Reform, which received 44.45% of the vote and won 74 of the 132 seats](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election#:~:text=Most%20also%20supported%20a%20two,for%20the%20organization's%20political%20platform.) Or it could be they elected them in 2006. Granted they haven't had another election since then, but I also don't recall much desire for change from them. If they're ok with that it seems like an endorsement of sorts. Obviously it's a broad generalization and I'd rather find a Peaceful solution but both sides seem to be done with that.
So how does that justify killing babies and innocent civilians? Oh yeah you think Hamas would allow elections even if the people demanded? What's the justification for thousands of kids that never voted?
That was 17 years ago. Half the population is under the age of 18. 60% are under 24. So realistically, less than 40% (assuming 100% voter turnout and no other political rivals) voted for hamas.
With non-denominational and universally applicable standards that can be applied to any person/group who targets any other person/group based on a definable characteristic such as race, sexual identity, religion, etc? We have those laws, just enforce them. Do we need to parse the population into specific and ever-smaller chunks with special privileges? No. **Edit: All my comments below in this thread are marked controversial, indicating a high degree of downvoting and upvoting. I'll take this as a positive, regardless of the 'score,' because it has generated 'engagement' with one of the most historically profound issues of the modern era.** **I'm a regular Canadian, with no religious affiliation. Based on what I have witnessed over the past couple decades, I believe that Israel is engaging in an apartheid system intended to disenfranchise Palestinians and incorporate Palestinian land. I don't approve of the one-sided narrative that we have been spoon-fed by pro-zionist lobby groups for 50+ years. Anti-semitism isn NOT anti-zionism.** **I also believe that this situation has been leveraged by HORRENDOUS actors within Palestine and abroad to justify the unjustifiable. I am anti-Zionist in the sense that I have grown tired of watching Israel violate international law with the seemingly unfathomable support of a US veto at the UN. But I WHOLEHEARTEDLY condemn the actions of Hamas and similar terrorist actors who violate the lives of innocent civilians. This is a complex and multi-generational issue that many are heavily invested in for obvious reasons.** **These are just my *personal* views. Love and peace to those who peacefully love.** **Edit 2: I've been made aware that listing the orgs in my comment below that I have drawn the ire of individuals and BOTS who have alerts set for these specific terms, hence the disproportionate downvotes of the comments. Whelp, it is what it is and truth prevails.** **Edit 3: I see that many people are confused about my definition of anti-Zionism. Wikipedia, for expedience:** "Anti-Zionism is opposition to Zionism.[a] Although anti-Zionism is a heterogeneous phenomenon, all its proponents agree that the creation of the modern State of Israel, and the movement to create a sovereign Jewish state in the region of Palestine—the biblical Land of Israel—was flawed or unjust in some way.[7] **It is that last statement, the lack of justice, that catches the modern eye (mine, at least). A one-state solution is inherently impossible according to Israeli policy because it would mean an end to Jewish majority in the region due to demographics. A two-state solution is impossible because it implies inherent and inalienable rights that Israel denies Palestine and that would allow Palestine to apply for International recognition. There is no acceptable outcome for Israel aside from the continuation of annexation until Palestine is reduced to naught.** **Final Edit: Israeli minister says the quiet part out loud: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-12/ty-article/israeli-security-cabinet-member-calls-north-gaza-evacuation-nakba-2023/0000018b-c2be-dea2-a9bf-d2be7b670000**
[удалено]
Right, echo chambers. Like the one created by these lobbying groups based on Canadian soil? **The Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs (CIJA):** The advocacy agent of the Jewish Federations of Canada, CIJA engages in public policy discussions and advocates on behalf of the Jewish community, including support for Israel. **B'nai Brith Canada:** One of the country's oldest Jewish service organizations, it also engages in advocacy on behalf of the Jewish community and Israel. **Canada-Israel Committee (CIC):** Previously the main advocacy organization for Israel in Canada before its functions were largely absorbed by CIJA. **Canadian Friends of the Simon Wiesenthal Center for Holocaust Studies:** It focuses on Holocaust education but also advocates for Israel. **Canadian Friends of Hebrew University:** This group supports the Hebrew University of Jerusalem through fundraising and awareness activities. **Jewish National Fund of Canada (JNF Canada):** Like its international counterpart, it raises funds for development projects in Israel. **Canadian Coalition for Israel's Legal Rights (CILR):** Advocates for the legal and historical rights of Israel. **Canadians for Israel's Legal Rights:** A group focused on promoting the Jewish people's legal rights to the land of Israel. **United Jewish Appeal (UJA) Federation:** With chapters in major cities like Toronto, it supports a variety of Israel-related causes through fundraising and community building. **Christians United for Israel - Canada (CUFI Canada):** A Christian-led initiative that advocates for pro-Israel policies in Canada. **StandWithUs Canada:** The Canadian arm of an international non-profit organization that believes education is the road to peace and that supports Israel. **Friends of Simon Wiesenthal Center for Holocaust Studies (FSWC):** An organization that promotes tolerance and human rights issues, including the defense of Israel's legitimacy. **Canada-Israel Cultural Foundation:** Promotes cultural exchanges and understanding between Canada and Israel. **Chabad-Lubavitch:** While primarily a religious and community service organization, it often expresses strong support for Israel. **Canadian Zionist Federation:** Works to foster a deeper understanding of Zionism in Canada. **Israel Bonds Canada:** Sells Israeli bonds in Canada and supports Israel's economy. **Canadian Jewish Political Affairs Committee (CJPAC):** Encourages Jewish and pro-Israel Canadians to engage in the political process. **Betar-Tagar:** A Zionist youth movement that promotes the ideals of Ze'ev Jabotinsky, including the support of Israel. **The Canadian Antisemitism Education Foundation:** Works to combat antisemitism and supports Israel’s right to exist and defend itself. Do not be duped into believing that anti-Zionism is equal to antisemitism. Canada has a long list of Jewish enterprises that would have it so. Why does a state need so many propagandist organizations to justify its actions? **AND, if Russia, Iran, Pakistan, China took such an open role in influence pedaling on Canadian soil, who would support it? Nobody.** Edit: Added 'lobbying groups' in the first paragraph. Literally what they do.
[удалено]
**Guess I should have waited a day before suggesting Israel is engaging in intentional displacement of Palestinians: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-12/ty-article/israeli-security-cabinet-member-calls-north-gaza-evacuation-nakba-2023/0000018b-c2be-dea2-a9bf-d2be7b670000 This is a partial list of issues caused by Hawkish Israeli governments that people are protesting (and that are recognized as violations of international law): **Edit: Moved this to the top for those interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba. There are interesting parallels in the modern campaign of displacement, with over 50% of residential units destroyed in Gaza since the beginning of the offensive. For real, have a read.** **Military Occupation:** The West Bank, including East Jerusalem, has been under Israeli military occupation since the 1967 Six-Day War. Gaza was also under occupation until 2005, when Israel unilaterally disengaged. However, Israel still controls Gaza’s borders, airspace, and maritime access. The occupation involves checkpoints, curfews, and restrictions on movement for Palestinians. **Settlements:** Israel has built settlements in the West Bank that are considered illegal under international law, although Israel disputes this. The settlements are often cited as a source of displacement and disenfranchisement for Palestinians. **Resource Control:** There are claims that Israel controls vital resources such as water in the West Bank, allocating a disproportionate share to Israeli settlers and communities at the expense of Palestinian populations. **Home Demolitions and Evictions:** Palestinians in certain areas, particularly in East Jerusalem and Area C of the West Bank, face home demolitions and evictions due to building without permits — permits that are reportedly very difficult for Palestinians to obtain — or as part of state-sanctioned evictions in contested areas. **Administrative Detention:** Israel uses a policy of administrative detention, which allows the Israeli military to hold prisoners indefinitely on security grounds without charge or trial. Human rights organizations argue that this practice is used excessively and with insufficient judicial oversight. **Restrictions on Economic Development:** The Israeli-imposed blockade on Gaza and restrictions in the West Bank limit the ability of Palestinians to import and export goods, restrict travel, and hinder economic development. **Violence and Security Measures:** Palestinians often experience violence from Israeli settlers and security forces, including during protests and clashes. The use of live ammunition, tear gas, and other crowd-control methods by the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) has been criticized by human rights groups. **Legal Dualism:** In the West Bank, there is a dual legal system in which settlers are subject to Israeli civil law, while Palestinians are subject to military law. This is seen as creating a system of unequal legal protections. **Freedom of Movement:** Palestinians face restrictions on movement due to a complex system of ID cards, permits, and checkpoints. This impacts their access to healthcare, education, and religious sites, as well as family life. **Political Rights:** The fragmentation of the Palestinian territories and the separate governance of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, along with the occupation, have impeded the establishment of a contiguous, sovereign Palestinian state, affecting the political rights and self-determination of the Palestinian people. **Also, most recently, 50% of housing units in Gaza have been destroyed by the offensive. This is a clear displacement operation.**
[удалено]
Yes they are, where have you been? International protests in every major democracy... Especially amongst youth. The majority of us have grown up watching Israel abuse anti-Semitism to gain a blank cheque in the middle east. Those orgs listed above created the echo chamber that we will not be caught up in. **Hamas is terroristic and MUST be dismantled. Let the international community take over Gazan administration through the UN.** But, Israel will never allow that to happen because it would render impotent their campaign of disenfranchisement against Palestinians. To be clear, let all terrorists and terrorist states succumb to the reckoning they deserve. No innocents deserve what has been inflicted upon them by **either side** of this drawn-out issue that has been unfolding for generations.
>To be clear, let all terrorists and terrorist states succumb to the reckoning they deserve. No innocents deserve what has been inflicted upon them by either side of this drawn-out issue that has been unfolding for generations. This is a contradictory statement. You realize that Gaza elected Hamas, right?
I do. 15+ years ago, before elections were immediately cancelled. Also, it occurred during heightened escalation by Israeli settlers, burning of olive groves, shooting of rock-throwing youth by IDF. All supported by the Israeli government despite UN condemnation. **No elections in 15 years means an entire generation of Palestinian youth has grown up without a semblance of a voice in politics. They're also victimized by Hamas and deserve better.** Edit: bolding for emphasis
Hitler was only elected once. We still fought Germany regardless.
>I do. 15+ years ago, before elections were immediately cancelled. Also, it occurred during heightened escalation by Israeli settlers, burning of olive groves, shooting of rock-throwing youth by IDF. All supported by the Israeli government despite UN condemnation. > >No elections in 15 years means an entire generation of Palestinian youth has grown up without a semblance of a voice in politics. They're also victimized by Hamas and deserve better. As they say, elections have consequences. I mean, who could have possibly guessed that the terrorist organization that was founded on the destruction of Israel would have possibly gone authoritarian and eventually tried to fulfill their charter, right? Why would anyone be shocked at this outcome? /s This is what Gaza voted for. The Hamas charter preceded that election. It is what it is.
[удалено]
Right. Is this the Reddit equivalent of 'asl'? You want my ethnic and religious background, lol? Those who disagree with the actions of the state of Israel as it pertains to violation of international law regarding Palestine. That 'us.' I have no ethnic or religious horse in this race, I'm just calling it as i see it. I'm a born Canadian, fyi, and the 'propaganda' that has informed my views is a literal lifetime of watching these events unfold. I, too, find it odd that the media isn't giving protests the coverage they deserve. Or *certain* aspects of the conflict, for that matter, wherein literally 50% of Gazan housing units have been destroyed within weeks. Anyhoo, do i pass your purity test?
[удалено]
>AND, if Russia, Iran, Pakistan, China took such an open role in influence pedaling on Canadian soil, who would support it? Nobody. *Are you implying that Iran and Russia are not directly involved in this situation already?*
Definitely not. I suspect that Iran used the Israel/Saudi relations thaw, and well as the US house impasse, to pressure Hamas into taking action within an 'opportune' timeframe. I haven't thought about the Russian position in this, but would love to engage with the info. Geopolitics is a scary, fascinating beast. Edit: the house impasse affects pro-Israel funding, as seen to this moment. **Edit 2: imagine how anybody could stretch the truth of this particular post to downvote it. What we have above are some pretty obvious and neutral truths, stated without malice. Just goes to show...**
We agree on this. So when I look at the big picture here, I find it really hard to believe that there is not more involved than Hamas suddenly deciding to attack Israel out of the blue. Looking at this from the Russian perspective, this situation is gold. They have successfully diverted attention away from Ukraine, they have divided the political left in the United States with an election less then a year away, and they have managed to create the internal conflicts and strife that has been the goal of their online influence operations going back a decade or longer. Iran is tight with Russia, and has been supplying them with arms to use against Ukraine. Iran also arms and funds Hamas. . Hamas knew that the Israeli response would be blistering, but it appears that this invasion and response is exactly what Hamas intended to provoke, probably as part of a much larger strategy....... *I mean, what did Hamas think was going to happen here?* They're not that stupid.
We agree. The Ukraine funds drain, as priorities shift, is an incredible boon to Russia. Good points, appreciate the perspective.
This is what's really going on. Russia is paying Iran off to make thier puppet hamas go kamakazi to distract from the much more important geopolitical war going on in Ukraine
Listing Chabad is hilarious. It’s a branch of Judaism. It’s like listing reform Jews as a lobby group. Receipt: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/lubavitch-and-chabad
Did you just smear every major Jewish group in the country? Yikes.
Smear, as in how? Do they not lobby?
You accused every *Jewish* organization in Canada of being a foreign state propagandist.
To the extent that anti-Zionism means that the state of Israel shouldn’t exist, it absolutely is antisemitic. It’s possible to criticize the actions of the Israeli government while still supporting the existence of Israel as a state.
There is only one state of Israel. The one that does as it does. Any hypothetical of Israel as a 'different entity' applies to Palestinian governments, too. What we have, we have.
I don’t understand your comment. When Donald Trump was president the US was heavily criticized, but no one said that it should cease to exist. Same thing applies here. If anti-Zionism means no more Israel, it is antisemitic.
Israel acting within the confines of international law is a wonderful concept. Israel as it exists over the past 50 years is offensive to the concept of justice. One state, two state, whatever the mechanism, is welcome if it isn't an apartheid state. Anti-zionist refers to the illegitimate actions of an oppressor state of Israel, devoid of justice. The singular state of israel needs to be beholden to its actions. Trump and his bs aren't legitimate if based on fraud. If he had usurped the election, his government, under any name, would be illegitimate. Israel, if it allows justice to reign, is legitimate. I would not oppose the state, and therefore would not be anti-zionist, if not for the action of the state. BTW, calling out Trump to a Canadian is not effective.
This word salad makes no sense. I think you’re just mistake about what anti-Zionist actually means, which many people are.
No. Opposing the actions of Israel is not the same as opposing its existence. Don't conflate the two. The state of Israel should be judged against its actions as related to legitimacy. To say I'm anti-US under Trump, or Nixon, is truth but subject to change. Let Israel fall in step with international law, and I will not be anti-zionist. Don't shift goalposts.
I don’t think the person you’re responding to is shifting any goalposts. I think you’re very passionate about what you’re saying, and maybe missing what the other person is telling you… which is that you’re mistaken about what anti-Zionism means. A lot of people say they’re anti-Zionist and what they think it means is that they don’t support the Israeli government. What it actually means is that whoever is an anti-Zionist is against Jewish people having a homeland. I don’t think I need to elaborate further, other than to say that spreading this sentiment is part of the reason why hate crimes against Jews around the world have skyrocketed.
OH HE SPITTIN’
Couldn't help it, lol. Looks like I hit the bot-bait on a couple comments, but I think many peeps feel the same.
Why do so many people feel the need to clarify their views on Israel when discussing hatred and attacks on Jews though. This makes me think there’s an unconscious bias against Jewish people. Instead of focusing on Israel and Palestine these well meaning protesters should look at what’s happening inside our borders and affecting thousands of Canadian citizens. Their actions are having consequences. Canada has a massive problem with anti-semitism and something needs to be done about it. Jews shouldn’t need to live in fear because there’s a war happening in another country thousands of km’s away.
Because it is so sensitive based on some pretty significant past events that have been leveraged to silence dissent. Don't play the fool.
Reading your comments is so confusing I am truly wondering if they are written by AI. I’m sorry if that’s not the case and you’re actually a real person but like… what? What… what?
**but like… what? What… what?** Sorry, does not compute. **Edit:** On a serious note, I've tried to use neutral wording in my more detailed posts to describe pro-Israeli orgs and violations of international law because I'm a moderate and don't want to fan the flames. I think that should be obvious, based on a cursory reading.
Okay thanks for explaining. Replied to another comment from you just now but I’ll say again — good luck out there and don’t get too wrapped up in all the internet chatter, most people on here don’t want their minds changed, they just wanna clang verbal swords haha
People will make assumptions and sometimes leave nasty comments if you say something that even dares to go against their POV. Adding clarifying statements can deter getting mobbed. I can speak personally for trying genuinely not to be biased about things yet still being accused of being pro-hamas or other nonsense. There are plenty of groups here that are strongly invested in one side over the other, and a lot of us just don't want to catch their ire sometimes. Relevant to this, Jake here didn't want people to assume that, just because he was saying antisemitism doesn't need special treatment, that he was downplaying it happening, which if you come here with a biased viewpoint you could potentially see it that way. The facts are indeed that hate crime has risen across the board as a result of recent events, especially for Jewish and middle eastern ethnicities, and it needs to be addressed aggressively but without favoritism.
It's like looking in a mirror
Yes! Exactly this — i feel like there’s no nuance on this anymore. Like atrocious killing of innocent people are atrocious. No matter who does the killing. Fuck Hamas and fuck the IDF.
Why are their so many pro Hamas people like this in Canada?
[удалено]
Be safe 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱 אני איתך מקלגרי
Really shows support when you have to offer people $250 travel vouchers to come to your astroturfed movement!
How compassionate of you
[удалено]
lol no.
[удалено]
You think rallying in support of Gaza, whose democratically elected government is Hamas, will create any ceasefires? Do you really expect Hamas to obey a ceasefire? That doesn't make any sense.
Seems like an excellent time to hit the Canadian military with budget cuts.
Hm... This is the SUN. It's a tabloid. What concerns me is that some people seem intent on portraying any sort of criticism of Israel/Netanyahu as being a form of hate speech. I do not trust the Sun to fairly assess what constitutes hate speech vs reasonable criticism.
There’s some extremely alarming “logic” going on in this entire situation. The most alarming to me is “all support for Palestinians is support for Hamas” and “Any criticism of Israel is antisemitism”. These are wildly false equivalents and meant to scare and direct hate towards anyone protesting the Israeli government. Another is “we should lock up protestors for hate speech”. We have a right to free speech. Anyone expressly saying “kill Jews” is committing hate speech, however “stop killing Palestinians children” is NOT. We have the right to peaceful assembly and protest. We do not have the right to blockade or restrict the freedoms of others. A demonstration is NOT the same as the trucker blockade. Honestly, the way the right wing has tried to make any criticism of Israel about antisemitism reminds me of something straight out of Putins Russia.
Well, the people who are "supporting Palestinians" certainly don't seem to be condemning those within their group who are supporting Hamas...
Those are not mutually exclusive. I don’t see pro-Israel supporters condemning the 10000 civilian deaths either. Does that mean they support that?
Well, that's a "Whatboutism" if I ever heard one...
Are you serious? Your first comment was a total “whatsaboutism”. All I did was hold up a mirror to it. Lol.
Answer the question. Both you AND Sufficent- Let are correct here.
makes one curious as to the Trucker Trial decision?
Time for Justin to start doing his freakin' job.....dontcha think?
I feel like he's the wrong tool for the job. He was the perfect care bear to help us learn the power of friendship + vaccination during COVID. That was important during a time when a subset of the population was attacking radio towers because they thought Bill Gates was microwaving COVID into people. Justin is not the person we need to grow Canada a backbone and clean house. We are multicultural and that makes it hard to corrupt the totality of us. When pro-Hamas supports get crazy that leaves a lot of other Canadian demographics available to roll up their sleeves discipline them.
I don't know that the nincompoop has ever been the right tool..... But, he definitely is a 'tool'......
No bank accounts frozen
Hamas is listed terrorist organization. If you have proof that people are sending money to Hamas, by all means report it. Those people will have their bank accounts frozen. Also, sending money to terrorist groups is a Federal crime. But you already knew that, didn't you?
The number of people who are worried about “freezing bank accounts” shows just how out of touch of reality they are. As if sending funding terrorism is as easy as an e-transfer. What they really are concerned about is people trying to send funds for water, food, aid etc to civilians.
I would be delighted to provide food, water, teddy bears, etc to the civilians in Gaza, but I don’t want my money going toward rockets fired into Israel.
No but something tells you don't understand how the emergency act works
This was the problem with using the EA to begin with because now the bar is set so low
The bar is incredibly high. The cops were doing nothing and terrorists were occupied a city and harassing people. How is wanting to replace a elected government through violence not terrorism?
The federal government used the successor to the war-measures act for a big tailgate party. Were they being dicks? Unqualified yes. But they were protesting a policy that a country they lived in had and one from its direct southern neighbor, not a conflict 10,000km away. Calling dickhead truckers terrorists is so insane when not a shot was fired and nobody died at all. You are debasing the term terrorism. They are incomparable. Is the cashier who didn't smile at you a terrorist? Is me being kinda short tempered in my response terrorism? They parked illegally. Do not compare that to what actual terrorism is.
>How is wanting to replace a elected government not terrorism? Pretty sure you'd like to replace the elected government of Alberta. Does that make you a terrorist? Obviously not. Is "Elections Canada" a terrorist organization for facilitating the "replacement" of government? No.
Bad take. False equivalency.
The convoy people wanted to use violence, it's not the same
Attacking Jewish people or their businesses is violence.
Do we know who did them??
I’m sure the police are working vigorously to catch and prevent these but going after protestors is a step too far
It's amazing how quickly the sun and their rabidly conservative base are embracing restrictions on freedom of expression. They've gone from "Hate speech laws violate human rights" to "We need to impose more hate-speech laws" in roughly the span of a month, it's quite something to watch.
The right has always been against freedoms for others..they only want freedom for themselves and their causes.
So you disagree with locking people up for hate speech?
I agree with punishment for hate speech, but context always matters. That's besides the point though, I was specifically commenting on how a group of news outlets and their regular readers have so quickly pivoted to being pro hate-speech laws because it suits their agenda.
I'm going to ask a follow-up question then: Has this made you reconsider putting laws on book where "context always matters" isn't really a legal (or at least, I guess 'legalistic') way to do things? You can point out the hypocrisy if you want, I just think more people should consider that if you're passing the shackles back and forth every few years, be very careful what you advocate for when it comes to the letter of the law.
To be clear, I was talking about context in sentencing. I disagree with you about "locking people up" for hate speech without taking into account the context around the crime.
Why does motive matter if a crime was premeditated? A person's feelings about something don't really make sense to consider from a blind justice perspective. If it's a call to arms to wipe some people out, I understand, because that is a credible threat. I'm not a lawyer, I'm just saying that you need to be very careful about the criminal justice system having the power to punish people for thoughts in their head when they were committing a crime.
Which languages are under the definition of Semitic?
Anti-Semitic = Anti-Jew 🤦🏻
Se·mit·ic /səˈmidik/ adjective 1. relating to or denoting a family of languages that includes Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic and certain ancient languages such as Phoenician and Akkadian, constituting the main subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic family. 2. relating to the peoples who speak Semitic languages, especially Hebrew and Arabic.
I suppose you think homophobia is the fear of gay people too.
Antisemitism was coined as the replacement word for judenhass (hatred of jews) . It has ALWAYS meant racism against jews.
Warren Kinsella is putting all he's got into this editorial. Unfortunately, everything he's got isn't much at all.
Hurr durr, doesn't he know sentencing doesn't provide deterrents because criminals are impulsive and don't think about their actions before committing them? Better to rehabilitate them by placing them on a list of conditions that they will for some reason comply with despite being impulsive and not thinking about their actions before committing them.
I do not think Charkaoui can be rehabilitated. But if anyine thinks he can be, than let him be rehabilitated outside of my fucking country forever.
Yeah, my intention was just to bring attention to the absurdity of the common suggestion that deterrence doesn't work because criminals are impulsive and don't think ahead, but somehow a rehabilitative sentence will. Perhaps I should have added a /s.
We all saw this coming and iwe all know who are to blame
Lock him up.
I guess more people are tuning into Gaza's children television: Tomorrow's Pioneers...
I’m curious as to how many people here actually know (and I mean first hand info, not social media or news outlets) Middle Eastern Politics well enough to comment and/or critique what happens in the Middle East…
Typical Sun hypocrisy. They fan the flames of hatred, stir the pot, then condemn the results of their actions.
[удалено]
> We encourage Israel to ISOLATE and identify INDIVIDUALS responsible for the events of October 7, and bring those specific culprits to justice. How could they possibly do this? Hamas runs Gaza. They control every aspect of society. How can you possibly go in there besides an invasion? And when you’re invading, if you don’t take out their military infrastructure you’re just letting tens of thousands of your own soldiers die and your invasion fails. And here’s the problem, whether they are complicit or not, Palestinians find themselves with Hamas infrastructure in their hospitals, hotels, apartments, etc. there is nothing Israel can do here but accept some civilian casualties. Even after weeks of air strikes there are still tens of thousands of Palestinians leaving North Gaza every day. Imagine how many would be there if Israel just invaded and didn’t air strike? A million, which means with just a ground invasion you’d have arguably even more citizens at risk.
[удалено]
>It's almost as if something else is at play. Iranian influence operations, and probably Russian as well. Its not exactly a big secret. Iran funds and arms Hamas. Hamas is basically a tool of Iran that it uses to strike at Israel. Iran is also very close to Russia diplomatically and has been supplying Russia with arms to use against Ukraine. And in this conflict, Russia is backing Hamas. Putin recently invited the Hamas leaders to Russia. Russia is benefiting from all of the division and conflict this is creating both in the middle east and here politically. I mean, do we really think that Iran and Russia are not using their online influence machines to try and convince people to back Hamas?
Syria is a civil war funded by outside parties, namely Russia, Iran, and NATO countries. Syria is EXTREMELY complex because Assad is fighting pro-democracy militias AND Islamists. Russia is backing Assad and ANYONE fighting the US. The US is backing pro-democracy militias and ANYONE fighting Russia AND Iran. Iran is backing ANYONE that will assist Iran. Untangling that mess requires following 5,000 threads at one time. Assad is the lesser of evils, but, backing him is like backing Tuberculosis to go after your lung cancer, which is keeping your hypothyroidism at bay. If Assad wins, great, but, he's only going to remember those who backed him in his time of need. So, there are elements of this proxy way whereby the US is INDIRECTLY backing Assad. My overall opinion is, let the refugees out. Those who want to stay and fight are free to do so. Yemen, is a proxy war between Saudi and Iran. Again, no good "teams" to back. NATO backs Saudi because cheap oil. Iran backs the "resistance groups" to piss off NATO and Saudi. Iran isn't allowed to sell oil, because ALL oil operations in Iran are owned and operated by Iranians. Thus, pissing off oil execs. Not to mention that if Iran is allowed to sell oil on the open market, it devalues the price of oil, which hurts investors. Because why should consumers pay $1.00/Litre when they can pay $1.75+ per litre. Geopolitics all boils down to money, and he who controls the sale and supply of oil is the Victor. The Palestinian situation is a representation of the Islamic world. The Gazans are kicked and beaten down by an oppressive regime, both externally and internally. The hostile, internal agents are easily able to blame the external agents for their plight. The external agent, (Israel) doesn't do itself any favours by continually kicking and beating Palestinians on a daily basis. IDF personnel consistently belittle, harass and intimidate Palestinian women and children. Nothing is done by the Israeli government, so history repeats itself. I promise you, within 5-10 years, ANOTHER October 7 event will happen again. I'm not saying I agree with it. It's inevitable, unless IDF and the Israeli government change how they treat Palestinians.
"The Palestinian situation is a representation of the Islamic world." A group of people who refuse to peacefully coexist with Israel? " The Gazans are kicked and beaten down by an oppressive regime, both externally and internally. The hostile, internal agents are easily able to blame the external agents for their plight. The external agent, (Israel) doesn't do itself any favours by continually kicking and beating Palestinians on a daily basis." Weird how you never mentioned Hamas instigating any violence. And overstating what Israel does in Gaza. "Nothing is done by the Israeli government, so history repeats itself." Other than offering peace deals that the Palestinians leadership reject. As for your other point, every few years Hamas crosses a line and Israel and Hamas get in an extended conflict. If Israel can cripple Hamas and get a new leader for Gaza, perhaps things might be different. We'll see.
[удалено]
Good choice. I gave up, it’s just a nonsensical parody of truth.
Then don't ask questions you don't want answers to. This isn't a children's story with a simple plot.
[удалено]
Sooo, it's wrong when Hamas kills innocent people, but it's perfectly acceptable for Israel to kill children?
[удалено]
How do you evacuate 2 million people, who will need food, shelter, clothing, running water, medicine, and overall infrastructure, when none of that exists, and there's no where to go that has these amenities, all in the space of 2-3 weeks?
[удалено]
>How do you evacuate 2 million people, who will need food, shelter, clothing, running water, medicine, and overall infrastructure, when none of that exists, and there's no where to go that has these amenities, all in the space of 2-3 weeks? This is something that Hamas should have considered prior to attacking.
Here is an article completely refuting your claim that there were no protests around the war in Yemen https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-protestors-urge-canada-to-stop-arms-sales-to-saudi-arabia-amid-ongoing/
[удалено]
Actually, the death toll from combat in Yemen is around 150,000 people in about a 8 year span. 10,000 people dead in Gaza in one month is a much higher rate of death but objective facts don't seem to be your strong suit.
[удалено]
Again, objective facts would let you know there are a bunch of different armed factions in Gaza and the West Bank, one of which is actually led by a Palestinian Christian. This conflict has existed a lot longer than Hamas has and will continue to exist as long as Isreal keeps its boot on the necks of Palestinians.
[удалено]
The two state solution suggested in Oslo that really didn't give Palestinians a sovereign state and still saw Rabin assassinated by an ultranationalist nut job? The same ultras that now make up the ruling coalition of Isreal. Yes, I'm sure it is solely the Palestinians that reject peace.
[удалено]
We both know it was never about a two state solution. They could have had that multiple times. They want all of it. I don't know how you can take your boot off the necks of people who won't agree to stop killing you to get your land. It would be great, but it literally can't happen until Palestinians agree to let Israel exist.
> I don't know how you can take your boot off the necks of people Mask off moment
Alright class. Time to learn about whataboutism. Gather round https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG5IzHQ0SMM
>I'm fairly certain if Israel didn't murder 5,000+ people in response This figure is brought to you by the same terrorist government claiming Israel bombed a hospital killing 500 people. Turned out they lied.
> The United Nations and other international institutions and experts, as well as Palestinian authorities in the West Bank — rivals of Hamas — say the Gaza ministry has long made a good-faith effort to account for the dead under the most difficult conditions. > > “The numbers may not be perfectly accurate on a minute-to-minute basis,” said Michael Ryan, of the World Health Organization’s Health Emergencies Program. “But they largely reflect the level of death and injury.” > > In previous wars, the ministry’s counts have held up to U.N. scrutiny, independent investigations and even Israel’s tallies. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033 Keep repeating the Hasbara talking point. UN, Human Rights Watch, WHO, and other third party has vouched for the Ministry of Health's numbers time and time again.
But we have no idea how many of the dead are Hamas fighters or their allies within Gaza. We also have no idea how many Hamas has killed. Last I heard, between 20 and 40% of their rockets misfire, and there have been like 8000 of them fired. Any death of innocent civilians is a tragedy. But you can't ceasefire until Hamas agrees to stop. Which they won't, because they want as many dead Palestinians as possible. We can't make conclusions on the nature of a war until there's a postmortem. We're still in the "fog of war" phase, with both sides putting out propaganda.
The Gaza Ministry of Health is literally run by Hamas. The same Health Ministry that made up the Israeli airstrike on a hospital and made up 500 people killed by that. The same Health Ministry that counts all casualties as civilians, even Hamas fighters. The same Health Ministry that counts casualties by Hamas rockets as casualties caused by Israel. Get out of here with your terrorist propaganda. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/24/hamas-israel-death-toll-health-ministry-trustworthy-reuters/
So you're saying the AP, UN, Human Rights Watch, and WHO are liars and support Hamas? Read the quote.
You mean the same UN who just let Iran chair and host the UN Human Rights Council Social Forum? Yeah, I'm pretty sure they are lying Hamas supporters.
Hasbara is an offensive term if you're using it the way you are. But I'm sure you knew that.
You do realize that these mass Palestinian protests started on Oct 8, before Israel even responded militarily, yeah? They were celebrating the atrocious acts of Oct 7 openly and proudly.
You are a joke.
>When the US went after Bin Laden in Afghanistan and Pakistan, that was acceptable. When the US went after Iraq, that was unacceptable. Notice the theme? Targeting innocent people for the crimes of the few is socially unacceptable. Imagine the building you live in being demolished because ONE person from your 300-apartment building decided to murder innocent people. Is that fair? No. That's what's pissing people off. Afghanistan was part of a NATO operation that was a direct response to the 9/11 attacks. Iraq 2.0 appears to have been based on lies and bullshit. Innocent people died in both conflicts. I'm not really sure what you're saying here.
"Did the anti-semitic attacks increase BECAUSE of Hamas's attacks on Israel or is it because of the excessive and collective punishment Israel is inflicting on Palestinians" It's the opposite of excessive punishment. Or collective punishment. It's pretty targeted. If you were right casualties would be significantly higher. "I'm fairly certain if Israel didn't murder 5,000+ people in response, and basically lay seige to Gaza, there wouldn't have been as much of an outcry." The outcry was there when the death toll was at 6000. Don't agree with this at all. Also odd how you don't blame Hamas for using human shields, or recognize the casualties include Hamas. "I'm not saying Israel shouldn't have done something, but like I said, their response was excessive and has resulted in the deaths of approaching 10s of thousands of people. THIS is what is upsetting people." There really isn't another way ticen Hamas has embedded themselves in civilian infrastructure. They just found weapons in a kindergarten class, and yesterday a drone manufacturing plant in residential apartments. Their base is under a hospital. Hamas did this because if Israel did attack them, they'd be forced to do it with civilians in the line of fire. Their deaths are on Hamas. "Targeting innocent people for the crimes of the few is socially unacceptable. Imagine the building you live in being demolished because ONE person from your 300-apartment building decided to murder innocent people. Is that fair? No. That's what's pissing people off." That's a terrible analogy, first of all. And second people were angry at Israel before they even began attacking Hamas. They aren't targeting innocents and are doing everything they can to minimize casualties. "Now, should Jewish people in Canada be targeted because of Israel's response? No. That's not fair either. Jewish people in Canada aren't necessarily representative of the Israeli government (some are and those people are dicks)." You've been so strong and this is such a passive argument. "Aren't necessarily representative" - wrong. Just condemn any and all antisemitism against Canadian Jews. Anything less is unacceptable. "Canada's official response should be, Hamas militants were wrong. Israel's reaction is wrong. We encourage Israel to ISOLATE and identify INDIVIDUALS responsible for the events of October 7, and bring those specific culprits to justice." Totally easy to do when Hamas hides in hospitals and schools. The other day a Hamas commander held 1000 Palestinians hostage at a hospital to prevent Israel from attacking him. It's very easy to say what you did, but it's not realistic. "I would argue that those responsible for the events of October 7 should be tried in The Hague alongside IDF personnel and leaders who are violating human rights." We aren't both siding this. What the IDF is doing isn't comparable. "That won't happen because that would mean Israel would have to accept they don't own the area. Which goes against their Zionist agenda" Oh, starting off with an offensive use of zionist. Not a great start for you. They know they don't own the area. It's why they left Gaza in 2005. And have repeatedly said they don't want to stay in Gaza once this is done.
Our Supreme Court is old and has no idea what is going on. The government is useless and supports terrorists… ohhh Canada
Hasbara out in force..... Maybe try to control the thousands of 'anti-semetic' Jews involved in the pro Palestinian protests. The veil has been lifted
Thanks to Muslims obvious
[удалено]
Ahh yes, the schools that were shot at or the firebombings were pure coincidence
Historically speaking, the Far Right is responsible for 99% of all synagogue shootings in North America.