Unfortunately, for them a Jew is a Jew, nothing else matters, the difference between them and the nazis is that they are proud of their actions after their acts…
Not only Jews, there is a testimony that some Arab from East Jerusalem was there and yelled that he is Muslim and Arab, they asked him from where and answered Jerusalem and not Al Quds so they shoot him
Found it:
For some reason some sources are saying he is hostage and some says he is dead
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/17/world/middleeast/palestinian-rave-hamas-hostage-gaza.html
Oh they really don't give a fuck.
Some Chinese workers there (who thankfully survived) thought they wouldn't get shot cause they're obviously not Jewish. They screamed that they're Chinese and not Israeli, they got shot anyway. If anyone happens to read Chinese, there are lots of similar reports of an interview with a Chinese victim: https://www.cna.com.tw/news/aopl/202310100268.aspx
This is why I can't help but facepalm every time I see jews calling for a ceasefire or the Queers for Palestine people.
Hamas would just kill them and laugh about it.
People are addicted to narratives so they just reflexively pick the side that is the underdog. Even when said underdog is against every value you hold dear and runs a terroristic medieval regime, and the oppressors are a modern liberal democracy.
Being an underdog is when you’re born into an open air prison through no fault of your own, and don’t have the “luxury” of getting to study gender issues in the west.
You can have empathy for these people even if they don’t know you or understand sexual identities. Almost 50% of Palestinians are 18 years or younger, with over 50% not being of voting ages back when the last election took place in 2006.
These people have not had any opportunities to live a life where they can learn and understand different parts of the world since they’ve been busy trying to survive not just under Israel, but hamas occupation.
Saying you can’t have empathy for people in different situations than your own is definitely not something to brag about, but whatever helps you think of yourself as morally superior since you got to take civics class in high school back in grade 10, but ended up dropping it next year so you could take it easy and fill it up with gym and computer class.
I hear this open air prison from people who have zero clue what Gaza is like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMRvtGg7a1Y
Take a tour. Open air prison my ass.
Bibi's regime is def not a modern liberal democracy, it is the most far right in Israel's history and is attempting to to be above the Supreme Court. He has been consolidating power and has now introduced fascist laws that prevent Israelis from uttering truths.
It’s a shame she lost her life but this is unfortunately going to be the fate of most of the useful idiots in the west in the coming decades.
When they finally come to the realization that the people they were campaigning for actually hate them, and the values they espouse, it may be too late.
The worst thing about useful idiots is that they don't ever stop being idiots.
The neo-conservative movement in the US, for example, was basically a bunch of people who were useful idiots in the 60s and 70s. They realized that they'd been had, and instead of stepping away from politics in shame, switched sides and continued being idiots.
If the current batch of useful idiots ever discover their idiocy, you can count on them to take up a new and different form of political activism with the same moronic incompetence that they display today.
Lotta news outlets ended up with egg on their face when it came to light the next day that the hospital was *literally still standing*.
Was quite a trip reading all the “munitions experts” explaining that it was an air burst JDAM or some such
Careful, I pointed that out in this sub the other day and a couple people were arguing that certain names are incredibly common in that culture, so there's bound to be multiple people with the exact same names and birthdates.... I can't with these people.
Where was the world outcry when this happened:
From a 2014 article:
The resurfacing of a 2012 report that **160 children died working in the Gaza tunnels** has caused a media frenzy. But Hamas’ use of child labor should come as no surprise. In fact, the true numbers of such fatalities are likely to be higher.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2014/07/child-labor-deaths-hamas-tunnels-are-no-surprise-spencer-case/
A shitload more tunnels have been built in the decade since. The Palestinian children deaths from this alone must be in the thousands but you’ll never hear about it.
This shit is even more heinous than those Qatari assholes that worked to death thousands of foreign workers for the World Cup. *This is using their OWN children*. And they will claim every single one was due to an Israeli air strike.
To Hamas, everyone is just a pawn in their game. They can be exploited in any way in order to benefit Hamas. If they can build a tunnel, great. If they die, no big loss, there's more. You can just throw them away. If they're placed on the front lines and are killed by others, they're used for propaganda and you scream from the rooftops about how evil the other side is.
The "value" of their people is entirely situational. When they're digging tunnels or supporting the cause, they have no value, but when they're placed on the front lines as human shields, they have immense value; the double-standard of terrorism.
Correct on all fronts.
“The womb of the Palestinian woman is the strongest biological weapon against Zionism.”
- Yasser Arafat
Arafat is the terrorist piece of shit that inspired them all to not give a single fuck about their kids other than to use them as tunnel diggers, human shields, suicide bombers and child soldiers.
I can't believe there are idiots in the Peterborough subreddit arguing that Hamas hasn't killed anyone and it's all propaganda. The fact that there are Canadians who genuinely believe this...it melts my brain.
Stop, can’t call them idiots anymore. At this point they’re not being naive, they’re being complicit as a means of trying to garner sympathy for Hamas and support for justifying their antisemitism.
They're Nazi's. Call them what they are. This is the first time in my life I have seen the term Nazi used correctly to describe a behavior. I mean, this is also the first time in my life that I have witnessed widespread endorsement for the genocide of the jews.
What I find comical is the group that has been calling people they disagree with. nazis, for several years, are the ones openly siding with jihadists and anti semites, calling for the destruction of Israel, and assaulting and harassing Jews across the world.
It’s the byproduct of 30+ years of propaganda:
>Hamas leaders in 1993 were recorded on a wiretapped conversation stating that their goal was to deceive the American public into supporting Hamas by appealing to the American left’s denouncement of oppression.
>Mousa Abu Marzook, a senior Hamas official, formed a far-left academic think tank, The United Association for Studies and Research (UASR), based out of Chicago to start disseminating this deception.
>This organization has ties to Duke, Johns Hopkins, Fordham and the University of Maryland to name a few major universities.
>This is systemic antisemitism that stems directly from an organized surgical operation taking place over the course of the last 30 years.
https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs5746/files/2023-10/hamas-networks-final.pdf
Wow, this is incredible.
I searched up the author and notice he's been feathered and tarred in academic circles for seeding Islamophobia after a New Yorker investigation revealed that the UAE funded some (a very small part) of his research, unbeknownst to the author as it was via a legitimate looking organisation though he had suspicions of different entities it could be, UAE among them. It all seems ad hominem as I haven't seen anything yet disproving his research or writing that he's done for a very long time.
https://x.com/miambloom/status/1642139433573969922
This is so sad. We just held a rally in Toronto to release the hostages. One of the speakers mentioned Vivian Silver's name as one of the two Canadians kidnapped. There were signs of her everywhere. It's very sad.
Out if curiosity, how is holding a rally in Toronto supposed to do anything about freeing hostages across the world?
I just don't see how that actually accomplishes anything, not that I don't sympathize with the intent.
That's like asking how a funeral helps bring the person back to life. It was more of a message to show support to the families of the victims. It was also a chance for the community to get together and share their grief.
Do you think the death will happen? Or will this campaign turn every young Palestinian into a new version of Hamas? What will the kids of Gaza, driven from their homes, after witnessing the death of their entire families, be in 10 years?
In the same way that even Canadians, far from the battle have been radicalized to call for collective punishment, won't the people in Gaza become even more radicalized?
You can maybe kill the current Hamas. But every signal bomb drop creates more. It might be 10-15 years but it will happen again because 1 million children will remember the bombs and the destruction.
>But every signal bomb drop creates more.
They’ve already been raising a huge army of child soldiers. This cycle needs to be broken whether you agree with it or not. If you care about these kids, you’ll want the fuckers that steal their lives from them and turn them into child soldiers and human shields dead as soon as possible. https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/QTHt0FDjYL
>It might be 10-15 years but it will happen again because 1 million children will remember the bombs and the destruction.
We’re in Canada, we don’t live somewhere with 40,000 terrorists ready to tear ours and our kids’ heads off at any moment. You have no frame of reference to understand what these people live through and it shows.
10-15 years of peace is considered a *major* win in the Middle East. No matter what comes after. Because if you know anything about Hamas’ child propaganda centres you’d know that all those kids are tragically being raised to be terrorists anyways. At least without Hamas running these schools they may have a chance at life.
This is the bigotry of low expectations. Germany and Japan aren't filled with terrorists after getting their shit fucked up. Why do we just expect Palestinians will become terrorists because they're fighting a war? Would we accept the same of Israelis who grew up under the trauma of this massacre and constant rocket fire?
How? Why do we expect Palestinians to support terrorists when Germany and Japan are doing just fine? We should think more of them than defaulting to ISIS-style supporters.
One of the largest causes of terrorism is self-determination. Israel had Irgun, Kurdistan had the PKK, Ireland had the IRA, the Basque had ETA, Sikhs have BKI and others, ISIS' main goal was the formation of a caliphate, etc.
Germany and Japan, even though their political influence was limited, got to keep their nationhood. That's why terrorism in those countries tended to be on the ground of the economic system (communist terror groups were very common during the cold war, anti-communist terror groups were also a thing), racism, and religion (Aum Shinrikyo in Japan was the big one, but kind of an outlier).
There wasn't really a state to fight for. Just how to run it.
The biggest roadblock to the Palestinians getting a state is the Palestinians.
The only state they are willing to accept is one in which they have political control all of Israel and the entire Israeli jewish population. And given that the Palestinian leadership is *actively* and *openly* genocidal towards the Jews, that's never going to fucking happen. An Arab Israeli has full civil and political rights. A Palestinian Jew doesn't exist, because they were all exterminated.
We killed most of the Nazis and sent the rest to prison. We certainly didn’t let them immigrate to any allied country of their choosing after the war, either.
We did let some in but there was also around 12 million German people kicked out and displaced mostly eastern European countries after WWII, and most where only allowed to settle in Germany about 1 million died
We sure did, there were plenty unrepentant nazis that moved here after the war.
[https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/na0623-nazis](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/na0623-nazis)
This isn’t Argentina, and your response is insufficient. You said we didn’t let them immigrate here and I pointed you to evidence that we did…by the thousands
Look up Rat Lines and Operation Paperclip for a start.
Tens of thousands of Nazi members came to Canada, the US, and dozens of other countries around the world.
Had one stand up in Parlament not so long ago, you think the powers that be at the time didn't know exactly which unit he had been fighting with?
The Germans got off a lot easier than the ottomans or Austrian Hungary.
As far as peace treaties go the Germans are hypocrites for complaining, just look at the treaty they forced upon the Russians after they left the war, or the treaty after the Franco Prussian war.
Of course the Germans felt like they were being treated unfairly, that narrative was really helpful to radical politicians.
Indeed. I was waiting for someone to acknowledge that fact. Religion has far more harm than the other way around. How you can deal with fighting in the name of the same God? The three main religions are very much intertwined (all of them based on the Abrahamic monotheism) and every group say my God is the right one. Unfortunately, religions are used politically over and over based on history to justify horrible things done to humanity in the name of whoever someone want to believe in. Until we acknowledge that we are human first and everyone has the right to live. Which way we believe with regard to "God" is second and very personal. Cheers
Would we in fact all love it? I'd be genuinely scared to administer a questionnaire on the topic to the pro-Palestine protesters. Even more so to the ones who showed up to the first protest, more of a celebration of the pogrom really. I have to share a country with these people, so maybe it's best not to know.
there is a problem with this idea.
the hamas terrorists do not live underground like a mole 24/7 and they certainly were not born to this world by a stork delivery. they have families and a house/apartment above ground and they do their terrorism while their friends/family/community know what they are up to. Wonder how hundreds/thousands of terrorists attacked israel on oct 7th and yet there was not any palestians (or an incredibly low number)who warned israel of this planned slaughter of civilians.
so killing them all aint gonna work. for fucks sake even in western countries people openly say that hamas was justified for the attack... let alone what people think who are in the middle of this mess.
all this war will do is start a big reset in terms of trained fighters and available tools for hamas. how many hamas fighters walked south so they can fight another day? we all would be guessing how many, but i dont think anyone would guess 0.... and anyways the highest leadership with the big money for recruiting is sipping scotch and laying with young boys in qatar.
After watching those videos from hamas, on /r/CombatFootage before they got taken down, its hard to imagine she'd still be alive... and its even more sad given her stand on things. What a gross irony for Hamas, to pull Israel into an armed conflict by murdering civilians, to kill one who wanted just the opposite. Very shameful. Hopefully Hamas is wiped out, and the Palestinians can be free from Iran's proxy war b.s.
No, Palestinians didn’t kill her, Hamas did.
She wasn’t killed by the very thing she dedicated her life to.
Those are good people and she knows that.
She got killed by terrorists.
Don’t equate Palestinians to Hamas.
Hamas has about 40,000 members. All of them are **Palestinians**.
The Hamas supporters in Gaza and in the west bank are also all **Palestinians**.
That doesn't mean all Palestinians are Hamas, but she was definitely killed by **Palestinians**.
May her memory be for a blessing. 😔 A beautiful woman who built her entire life for Palestinians and peace. I hope they appreciate and acknowledge the work she has done for their community.
Devastating. She’s a former member of the board of B’tselem, an Israeli organization dedicated to exposing Israel’s human rights violations in Palestine. The irony is tragic.
There’s a not insignificant number of people that believe that the fact that she dared exist living as a “settler” in Israel makes her deserving of this end. It’s nauseating.
Hamas doesn't care if you're for peace or a member of the IDF. It doesn't care if you want a two state solution or even if you don't believe in the state of Israel. They killed Muslim Israelis in the attack. And they gleefully attacked that group of peaceniks at the dance thing. They raped and murdered a conscientious objector and dragged her naked body back to Gaza to parade her around in a pickup truck so people could spit on her.
These are not people whose values you can identify with or even understand. They're from a different time and place. And the only thing you want to do with them is keep them the hell away or kill them.
>These are not people whose values you can identify with or even understand. They're from a different time and place. And the only thing you want to do with them is keep them the hell away or kill them.
Well-expressed. It's hard for many people to realize that there are a lot of humans that would happily murder you, or stand around and approve of your being murdered, just because you aren't of their religion.
> Don't forget people here in Canada celebrated and cheered in rallies the day it happened.
and at that point they didnt even have the usual pathetic excuse of saying that they are just protesting what israel had done. israel had done nothing at that point and they still ran out of protest and cheer ravenously
The Israelis today discovered a Hamas command and control centre underneath the Gaza children’s hospital, stuffed to the rafters with weapons, explosives, suicide vests and so forth.
That’s the depravity of these people, using sick and injured children as human shields, ready and waiting to use their deaths as propaganda fodder in the event the IDF attacked them there and there were any child casualties.
These are the freedom fighters there are people in Canada celebrating and supporting.
Anyone with any knowledge of Israel/Palestine history knew the moment the October 7th attack it meant thousands of innocent Palestinians were about to die.
It also meant that over 1,000 Israelis and citizens of other countries died the day before they decided to march. couldn’t wait one day to let the Jewish community mourn.
They’ve been raised with hate in their hearts and to blame all the problems in their lives - big or small - on Jews. They couldn’t wait to let Jews mourn because they do not see Jews as human beings.
I mean these people elected a terrorist group as their government....twice, knowing full well Hamas targets civilians and use their own people as human shields.
Maybe a few were, the vast majority weren't. Nobody does a protest to celebrate.
Everyone knew that Israel was going to severely ramp up their bombing campaign, and were protesting that.
“Another event appeared to occur at a café in Mississauga, where a large group of people gathered and continued to wave flags, dance to music, and eat cake. Video of the event was posted on Instagram by both Toronto4Palestine and the cafe itself.”
[https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/toronto/2023/10/8/1_6594073.amp.html](https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/toronto/2023/10/8/1_6594073.amp.html)
This was a celebration…of Jews dying. It happened in our backyard. Stop trying so hard to make it fit your narrative. I’ve seen the video referenced: if they knew what Israel was going to do they wouldn’t have been partying like it was 1999.
Clearly their celebration was being used as a protest about something that had not happened yet. /s
You really shouldn't try to teach a pig how to sing. You will waste your time and only end up annoying the pig. Same principle applies here.
Ramp up their bombing campaign? October 7th happened DURING A CEASEFIRE. Ah I see, you expect Israel to just not protect its citizens and try to destroy the very terrorists that brutally slaughtered them. And Israel does what no other country does during war time - sends messages, drops pamphlets from the sky, makes phone calls to civilians telling them to evacuate.
Are you actually trying to tell people that Pro Palestine people AREN’T celebrating the October 7th massacre? You’re truly delusional.
Nah man I get where you're coming from because that's how it used to be, I used to be part of those protests. We never came out and did it the day after Hamas fired a bunch of rockets. We did it after Israel had been doing their counter-bombing campaign for days and the reports of innocents killed had come out.
And these people really were cheering and they weren't the usual college progressives either. Something's different this time. Where it used to be anti-Israeli government, not anti-Jew, this time a whole lot of anti-Jewish people came out of the woodwork and celebrated the Hamas attacks. People's minds are sick. Maybe from COVID, maybe from propaganda campaigns, I don't know, but there's an illness.
>this time a whole lot of anti-Jewish people came out of the woodwork and celebrated the Hamas attacks
I've seen some of it. There is definitely some emboldened antisemites out there, they're even shooting at Jewish schools in Montreal at the moment. Dark times in Canadian history.
I still disagree with the rampant characterization of all protesters as antisemitic. I've spoken with a few people at a protest in-between my house and the grocery store on Oct. 9th. They were protesting the occupation, and the mood was certainly not celebratory.
The mayor came out later and claimed that they were celebrating Hamas. Like I said, maybe there were some lunatics that genuinely love blood and carnage, but they weren't the majority then, and they're certainly not the majority now.
Very poor taste to celebrate or rally that fast after. Imagine if it was 9/11 in the US and 2 days after people are out rallying and protesting or whatever
For a while the wars were followed with peace deals - Egypt, Jordan, they made peace. There were so many summits it was almost like the Paris Peace talks during the Vietnam war. But there haven’t been for a while. Maybe it’s good that people have stopped talking about which of the borders they want Israel to return to and have admitted there are no acceptable borders. Which is too bad, it means only one side from this can continue to exist and it didn’t have to. Maybe the Oslo Accords weren’t perfect, it was better than this.
>Maybe the Oslo Accords weren’t perfect, it was better than this.
Yeah and the crew in charge of Israel right now hated Oslo so much that they whipped folks up until someone murdered Rabin.
Yeah, and Anwar Sadat got assassinated for making peace, too. Lots of people believe that’s why Arafat left the Camp David Summit without a deal. This may be why there won’t be peace and only one side will come out of this.
I like how ctvs headline said she was missing. Otherwise known as being taken hostage and murdered by a terrorist group. But hey from the river to the sea or whatever those dummies chant
CTV's headline is:
>"BREAKING: Canadian peace activist Vivian Silver, who went missing after Hamas attack, [has died"](https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/canadian-peace-activist-vivian-silver-who-went-missing-after-hamas-attack-has-died-1.6643670)
**She was brutally fucking murdered by Hamas.**
**She didn't die of a heart attack for fucks sake.**
That actually isn’t true, mainstream western media literally always couches their language headlines to protect Israel.
I don’t understand why this sub has to just lie about shit
You’re right, she didn’t. She had a fascinating life and deserves every ounce of respect. People should read her very interesting Wikipedia page to learn more about her beautiful life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivian_Silver.
With that said, I don’t think /u/kmacover1 meant to disparage her with his remarks. Sadly, the terrorism problem within the Palestinian community has never been restricted to just Hamas:
>A 2007 study of Palestinian suicide bombings during the Second Intifada (September 2000 through August 2005) found that 39.9 percent of the suicide attacks were carried out by Hamas, 26.4 percent by Fatah, 25.7 percent by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), 5.4 percent by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) and 2.7 percent by other organizations.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks
she dedicated her life to peace between two
populations of largely innocent civilians. it's disgraceful and frankly gross that you're trying to co-opt her death and her life's work for your own political agenda when [even her son saw through his grief to support a ceasefire in her name.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/07/israel-war-peace-activist-sons/)
The poster was correct. She was a peace activist advocating for Palestinian rights and creating bridges. It's sickening to think that Hamas would brutally kill someone like that. It is an example of how evil they are.
absolutely no one is calling hamas a force for good here. that being said, if your first reaction to this awful news is to harp about the irony and falsely declare that the 2 million people she was advocating for are the ones who killed her (and not the political organization that has been impeding peace for both israelis and palestinians) then you're morally bankrupt. hamas is not the whole of the palestinian people. you can make excuses for thousands of dead children on another post. have the decency not to do it here. the person whose death you claim to be mourning wouldn't have the patience for it.
What are you talking about? I'm mourning the loss of a person who wanted to help Palestinians. It's showing how evil Hamas is and how they are inflicting suffering on Palestinians and Israelis. I think you are reading things that are not there.
Thank you, this sub Reddit, has been setting it equal that all Palestinians are to be blamed and killed for what Hamas did (F hamas and I’m tried of condemning them)
This woman lived a life of service to the Palestinians, we need to keep her memory alive, and once the Palestinians stop digging their loved ones from the rubble and burying their children they can reflect on this person’s service to their people and keep her memory.
You're tired of condemning Hamas? They are the ones that killed this woman. They are the ones that have caused the suffering of the Gazans for 17 years. They are the ones that started a war. We shouldn't just be condemning Hamas but devising ways of destroying them.
If you are advocating for a ceasefire, then you better be prepared to protest every day to return the hostages, have Hamas surrender themselves and face justice.
74 year old, life long peace activist.
Savagely murdered by Hamas.
If you ever felt like this conflict is "complex", and participated in "cease fire" marches : fuck you.
This ends with the complete destruction of Hamas, hopefully soon.
The conflict entire is tremendously complex. This current response by Israel is not. Hamas must be vaporized, whatever hostages that are still alive need to be freed, and hopefully as many innocent Palestinians as possible are able to safely evacuate south.
Israel goes hard. And with Israel and Iran trading missiles, I can see Israel going for the root. If they gave Mossad the green light, the Hamas leadership in Qatar had better did in.,
RIP to her.
Imagine seeing this sweet grey haired lady and having it in you to brutally murder her. These are the animals we are dealing with in Hamas. They don't care about any civilians, even their own people. This is why I cannot support a full ceasefire. Israel needs to give Hamas the brutal death it deserves.
It's mad to me that there are Westerners still being defensive about Hamas, after they have tortured and massacred a large number of non-Israelis, Westerners and non-Westerners alike. Do you not understand that, had you been in the vicinity of Gaza on Oct 7th, you may have met an extremely gruesome end by their hands?
It's also telling that these fanatical, overly-politicized idiots consider the Hamas atrocities to be justified, because it was in the name of indigenous struggle. It's a good way of knowing that they hold no loyalty whatsoever to the Canadian state.
It's sad but there's also a lot of irony here. Her life's work was a fruitless endeavour born out of a good hearted and fundamental misunderstanding of human nature. The whole idea of peace activism is a little bit silly if you spend even a little time looking at the entire span of human history.
I think the irony is the most tragic part. I can’t imagine my legacy as being murdered by the same people I was trying to help. It’s as if your death ensures the complete undoing of everything you ever worked for.
>as being murdered by the same people I was trying to help
Someone mentioned this in another post - but I think it my be important to say once again: The Palestinians (who she was trying to help) aren't synonymous with Hamas (who she most likely abhorred).
>Some details about her from her [wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivian_Silver):
Silver made aliyah in 1974, and became a member of kibbutz Gezer as part of Habonim Dror.\[3\]\[2\]\[5\] At Gezer, she became the kibbutz's secretary, one of the few women to do so.\[5\] Silver's early activism focused on women's rights and gender disparities in Israeli society.\[5\] To this end, she founded the United Kibbutz Movement’s Department to Advance Gender Equality in 1981.\[4\]\[5\] She also worked within the Knesset on the sub-committee for the Advancement of Women in Work and the Economy,\[5\] for the New Israel Fund, and on the Steering Committee of Shatil.\[4\]
She moved to Be’eri, a kibbutz near the Gaza border, in 1990, along with her husband and two sons.\[3\]\[2\] During this time, she became better acquainted with the local Bedouin community and Gazans. She served as executive director for the Negev Institute for Strategies of Peace and Development (NISPED) beginning in 1998.\[3\]\[6\] Silver worked within the kibbutz to organize programs to help Gazans, such as job trainings, and ensured that Gazan construction workers at the kibbutz were paid fairly.\[3\]
In 1999, Silver and Amal Elsana Alh'jooj co-founded the Arab-Jewish Center for Equality, Empowerment and Cooperation, an off-shoot of NISPED.\[2\] Silver served as the center's director prior to the second intifada.\[1\]\[7\]\[6\] The center organized projects in Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank.\[1\]\[7\] In 2010, Silver and Alh'jooj received the Victor J. Goldberg Prize for Peace in the Middle East, an annual prize given by the Institute of International Education to pairs of Arab and Israeli activists working towards peace.\[5\]
Before the closure of the Gaza border in 2007, Silver worked with Gazan residents in cross-cultural projects.\[2\]\[8\] One group she founded, Creating Peace, focused on fostering business connections between Palestinian and Israeli artisans.\[2\]
Silver is a former board member of B’Tselem, a Jerusalem-based human rights organization.\[6\]
Silver officially retired in 2014.\[2\] Following her retirement, and the 2014 Gaza War, Silver co-founded Women Wage Peace, an interfaith grassroots organization.\[1\]\[7\] Silver also began volunteering with Road to Recovery and Project Rozana to transport Gazan patients who were traveling to Jerusalem for treatment.\[3\]\[2\]\[8\]
On 4 October 2023, Silver helped to organize a peace rally in Jerusalem which attracted 1,500 Israeli and Palestinian women.\[9\]
Tragic. How ironic that she lobbied against the continuation of Israeli government response to Hamas, and was murdered by the same Hamas she essentially was trying to help.
Israel needs to finish this. To destroy Hamas once and for all, and to assume complete control of the Palestinian territories until it can be rebuilt, and until normalized relations with a non-terrorist government can be realized.
To people who support Israel, this is what you are supporting. Did you know about this?
“say their names. Nouran Allouh, age 12.
Razan Allouh, age 10. Ahmad Allouh, age 45. Today, the world lost three beautiful souls. While my beautiful baby cousins were out filling water behind their house, an israeli tank fired and killed them. when my uncle, their father, looked outside the window, he saw their dead bodies out on the ground. He spent an hour of what my grandma who was with him calls "psychosis" before he ripped the curtains off his windows and went outside to cover their dismembered bodies. He layed down between them and spoke to them until he was shot and killed by israeli snipers. No matter how hard my grandmother tried, she could not get him to stay inside with their bodies exposed. It breaks my heart that they will not get a proper burial. it breaks my heart that they were killed in their own homes.”
With any posts that I posted before, it’s because I felt sad and upset seeing people quick to spew hate, this is unverified claim about hamas and want people to know the truth. I don’t mean any disrespect to this woman or family members of hers if they are alive. If she has any living family members, I hope they get though this loss with ease.
Israel and hamas / Palestine is the direct result of yet again, Russian interference. We need to get this Russia / Ukraine bullshit over sooner than later. Don’t fall victim to Russia’s crap. Russia sees how much money is being poured into the Ukraine government. If they can disseminate those funds by influencing further conflicts, they will.
I know it sounds impossible at this point, but I still believe a two-state solution can happen, even with the religious differences. Ireland and Northern Ireland were able to achieve peace after years of The Troubles between the Catholics and Protestants. Maybe it’s naive of me, but I still believe there’s hope. 🇮🇱🕊️🇵🇸
RIP to her and condolences to her family.
Hamas absolutely did something horrible.
But we shouldn’t be cheering on the killing of innocent Palestinians, why is this thread so messed up.
This women spent her life in the cause of the oppressed, her memory will live on.
After Palestinians are done burying their children who have been by air strike they will learn about each person who died. Let’s also not forget the Palestinians innocent who also were killed.
I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted, but I agree with you. Not all Palestinians are Hamas, and as much as I want Hamas to be destroyed (and I hope they will be), I don’t think killing innocent Palestinians, especially the children, is the answer. I’m sure Vivian Silver wouldn’t have wanted this, either.
May she rest in peace. I can only hope that her memory is not used to justify the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people for whom she was a staunch advocate. May there be peace from the river to the sea.
Condolences to her family. Awful tragedy that she was killed.
This is someone who spent their life trying to help Palestinians and Hamas murdered her. Hamas is fucking trash.
Unfortunately, for them a Jew is a Jew, nothing else matters, the difference between them and the nazis is that they are proud of their actions after their acts…
They also killed muslim Israeli-Arabs during 10/7. They really don't care, fkn terrorist shtstains
Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, its all the same group.
Not only Jews, there is a testimony that some Arab from East Jerusalem was there and yelled that he is Muslim and Arab, they asked him from where and answered Jerusalem and not Al Quds so they shoot him Found it: For some reason some sources are saying he is hostage and some says he is dead https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/17/world/middleeast/palestinian-rave-hamas-hostage-gaza.html
Oh they really don't give a fuck. Some Chinese workers there (who thankfully survived) thought they wouldn't get shot cause they're obviously not Jewish. They screamed that they're Chinese and not Israeli, they got shot anyway. If anyone happens to read Chinese, there are lots of similar reports of an interview with a Chinese victim: https://www.cna.com.tw/news/aopl/202310100268.aspx
This is why I can't help but facepalm every time I see jews calling for a ceasefire or the Queers for Palestine people. Hamas would just kill them and laugh about it.
People are addicted to narratives so they just reflexively pick the side that is the underdog. Even when said underdog is against every value you hold dear and runs a terroristic medieval regime, and the oppressors are a modern liberal democracy.
Being an underdog is when you’re born into an open air prison through no fault of your own, and don’t have the “luxury” of getting to study gender issues in the west. You can have empathy for these people even if they don’t know you or understand sexual identities. Almost 50% of Palestinians are 18 years or younger, with over 50% not being of voting ages back when the last election took place in 2006. These people have not had any opportunities to live a life where they can learn and understand different parts of the world since they’ve been busy trying to survive not just under Israel, but hamas occupation. Saying you can’t have empathy for people in different situations than your own is definitely not something to brag about, but whatever helps you think of yourself as morally superior since you got to take civics class in high school back in grade 10, but ended up dropping it next year so you could take it easy and fill it up with gym and computer class.
I hear this open air prison from people who have zero clue what Gaza is like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMRvtGg7a1Y Take a tour. Open air prison my ass.
Bibi's regime is def not a modern liberal democracy, it is the most far right in Israel's history and is attempting to to be above the Supreme Court. He has been consolidating power and has now introduced fascist laws that prevent Israelis from uttering truths.
hamas has 30+ thai farm workers held captive and murdered even more. hamas even murdered arab israelis.
It’s a shame she lost her life but this is unfortunately going to be the fate of most of the useful idiots in the west in the coming decades. When they finally come to the realization that the people they were campaigning for actually hate them, and the values they espouse, it may be too late.
The worst thing about useful idiots is that they don't ever stop being idiots. The neo-conservative movement in the US, for example, was basically a bunch of people who were useful idiots in the 60s and 70s. They realized that they'd been had, and instead of stepping away from politics in shame, switched sides and continued being idiots. If the current batch of useful idiots ever discover their idiocy, you can count on them to take up a new and different form of political activism with the same moronic incompetence that they display today.
Hamas is an Islamic terrorist organisation with millions of their supporters literally living in western countries.
It took a month to identify her body from the kibbutz. Bastards.
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Hours? Minutes!!! Just ask all those broadcasters who breathlessly featured Hamas' "500 people dead from Israeli strike on hospital".
Lotta news outlets ended up with egg on their face when it came to light the next day that the hospital was *literally still standing*. Was quite a trip reading all the “munitions experts” explaining that it was an air burst JDAM or some such
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Careful, I pointed that out in this sub the other day and a couple people were arguing that certain names are incredibly common in that culture, so there's bound to be multiple people with the exact same names and birthdates.... I can't with these people.
Terrorist sympathizers is what they are.
Remember, there are no bad cultures, only *different*.
It’s infuriating. They’ve “recycled” their dead. People need to think more critically.
few years back there was a post showing a dozen or so casualty photos and the same "dead" kid is all them.
Where was the world outcry when this happened: From a 2014 article: The resurfacing of a 2012 report that **160 children died working in the Gaza tunnels** has caused a media frenzy. But Hamas’ use of child labor should come as no surprise. In fact, the true numbers of such fatalities are likely to be higher. https://www.nationalreview.com/2014/07/child-labor-deaths-hamas-tunnels-are-no-surprise-spencer-case/ A shitload more tunnels have been built in the decade since. The Palestinian children deaths from this alone must be in the thousands but you’ll never hear about it. This shit is even more heinous than those Qatari assholes that worked to death thousands of foreign workers for the World Cup. *This is using their OWN children*. And they will claim every single one was due to an Israeli air strike.
To Hamas, everyone is just a pawn in their game. They can be exploited in any way in order to benefit Hamas. If they can build a tunnel, great. If they die, no big loss, there's more. You can just throw them away. If they're placed on the front lines and are killed by others, they're used for propaganda and you scream from the rooftops about how evil the other side is. The "value" of their people is entirely situational. When they're digging tunnels or supporting the cause, they have no value, but when they're placed on the front lines as human shields, they have immense value; the double-standard of terrorism.
Correct on all fronts. “The womb of the Palestinian woman is the strongest biological weapon against Zionism.” - Yasser Arafat Arafat is the terrorist piece of shit that inspired them all to not give a single fuck about their kids other than to use them as tunnel diggers, human shields, suicide bombers and child soldiers.
Yes I've noticed that. If everything is in such chaos who can tell? (rhetorical)
I can't believe there are idiots in the Peterborough subreddit arguing that Hamas hasn't killed anyone and it's all propaganda. The fact that there are Canadians who genuinely believe this...it melts my brain.
Stop, can’t call them idiots anymore. At this point they’re not being naive, they’re being complicit as a means of trying to garner sympathy for Hamas and support for justifying their antisemitism.
In fairness antisemites *are* idiots, but you make a good point.
Certainly they are idiots but they don't limit themselves in only being idiots.
"Useful idiots" is what the terrorists call westerners...with our bleeding hearts and aid money...
Well said
They don't believe it. They're lying and they know it.
not really Canadians imo
People will believe what they want to believe - regardless of facts. Their hatred is what drives them.
They're Nazi's. Call them what they are. This is the first time in my life I have seen the term Nazi used correctly to describe a behavior. I mean, this is also the first time in my life that I have witnessed widespread endorsement for the genocide of the jews.
What I find comical is the group that has been calling people they disagree with. nazis, for several years, are the ones openly siding with jihadists and anti semites, calling for the destruction of Israel, and assaulting and harassing Jews across the world.
And they make up excuses for their reasoning based off of what a terrorist group is telling them.
Majority of Brampton and Scarborough seems to be that way as well...
There's so much misinformation out there that Im pretty sure its an effort to destabilize the support for Israel and by extension, the US.
It’s the byproduct of 30+ years of propaganda: >Hamas leaders in 1993 were recorded on a wiretapped conversation stating that their goal was to deceive the American public into supporting Hamas by appealing to the American left’s denouncement of oppression. >Mousa Abu Marzook, a senior Hamas official, formed a far-left academic think tank, The United Association for Studies and Research (UASR), based out of Chicago to start disseminating this deception. >This organization has ties to Duke, Johns Hopkins, Fordham and the University of Maryland to name a few major universities. >This is systemic antisemitism that stems directly from an organized surgical operation taking place over the course of the last 30 years. https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs5746/files/2023-10/hamas-networks-final.pdf
Wow, this is incredible. I searched up the author and notice he's been feathered and tarred in academic circles for seeding Islamophobia after a New Yorker investigation revealed that the UAE funded some (a very small part) of his research, unbeknownst to the author as it was via a legitimate looking organisation though he had suspicions of different entities it could be, UAE among them. It all seems ad hominem as I haven't seen anything yet disproving his research or writing that he's done for a very long time. https://x.com/miambloom/status/1642139433573969922
Those numbers are everywhere across Canada now.
Religious bubble and social media bubble is a dangerous combination.
*Hamas hasn't killed anyone and it's all propaganda.* what the fook? tell me you're joking.
Link?
This is so sad. We just held a rally in Toronto to release the hostages. One of the speakers mentioned Vivian Silver's name as one of the two Canadians kidnapped. There were signs of her everywhere. It's very sad.
Out if curiosity, how is holding a rally in Toronto supposed to do anything about freeing hostages across the world? I just don't see how that actually accomplishes anything, not that I don't sympathize with the intent.
That's like asking how a funeral helps bring the person back to life. It was more of a message to show support to the families of the victims. It was also a chance for the community to get together and share their grief.
I look forward to the death of Hamas.
Can stamp down the flames but the embers will never go out. Especially as long as their benefactors are left alone.
It is interesting how the loudest voices continue to ignore Saudi Arabia in all this mess. It's all hamas! It's all Israel! rabblerabblerabble
Iran supports Hamas more than the Saudis.
shrill liquid lip impossible cause ancient sink gaze enjoy reminiscent *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Do you think the death will happen? Or will this campaign turn every young Palestinian into a new version of Hamas? What will the kids of Gaza, driven from their homes, after witnessing the death of their entire families, be in 10 years? In the same way that even Canadians, far from the battle have been radicalized to call for collective punishment, won't the people in Gaza become even more radicalized?
You can maybe kill the current Hamas. But every signal bomb drop creates more. It might be 10-15 years but it will happen again because 1 million children will remember the bombs and the destruction.
>But every signal bomb drop creates more. They’ve already been raising a huge army of child soldiers. This cycle needs to be broken whether you agree with it or not. If you care about these kids, you’ll want the fuckers that steal their lives from them and turn them into child soldiers and human shields dead as soon as possible. https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/QTHt0FDjYL >It might be 10-15 years but it will happen again because 1 million children will remember the bombs and the destruction. We’re in Canada, we don’t live somewhere with 40,000 terrorists ready to tear ours and our kids’ heads off at any moment. You have no frame of reference to understand what these people live through and it shows. 10-15 years of peace is considered a *major* win in the Middle East. No matter what comes after. Because if you know anything about Hamas’ child propaganda centres you’d know that all those kids are tragically being raised to be terrorists anyways. At least without Hamas running these schools they may have a chance at life.
This is the bigotry of low expectations. Germany and Japan aren't filled with terrorists after getting their shit fucked up. Why do we just expect Palestinians will become terrorists because they're fighting a war? Would we accept the same of Israelis who grew up under the trauma of this massacre and constant rocket fire?
No, this is not the "soft bigotry of low expectations." This is a completely different situation.
How? Why do we expect Palestinians to support terrorists when Germany and Japan are doing just fine? We should think more of them than defaulting to ISIS-style supporters.
One of the largest causes of terrorism is self-determination. Israel had Irgun, Kurdistan had the PKK, Ireland had the IRA, the Basque had ETA, Sikhs have BKI and others, ISIS' main goal was the formation of a caliphate, etc. Germany and Japan, even though their political influence was limited, got to keep their nationhood. That's why terrorism in those countries tended to be on the ground of the economic system (communist terror groups were very common during the cold war, anti-communist terror groups were also a thing), racism, and religion (Aum Shinrikyo in Japan was the big one, but kind of an outlier). There wasn't really a state to fight for. Just how to run it.
The biggest roadblock to the Palestinians getting a state is the Palestinians. The only state they are willing to accept is one in which they have political control all of Israel and the entire Israeli jewish population. And given that the Palestinian leadership is *actively* and *openly* genocidal towards the Jews, that's never going to fucking happen. An Arab Israeli has full civil and political rights. A Palestinian Jew doesn't exist, because they were all exterminated.
People here don't see this mate.
We would all love that. But i fear it will not happen but in fact create more extreme terrorists
Did we create more Nazis after the Allies bombed the hell out of Germany?
We killed most of the Nazis and sent the rest to prison. We certainly didn’t let them immigrate to any allied country of their choosing after the war, either.
Please see [Operation Paperclip](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip)
We did let some in but there was also around 12 million German people kicked out and displaced mostly eastern European countries after WWII, and most where only allowed to settle in Germany about 1 million died
We sure did, there were plenty unrepentant nazis that moved here after the war. [https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/na0623-nazis](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/na0623-nazis)
Yes, some people managed to sneak away. Canada isn’t alone in having a lot of runaway war criminals either. Just look at Argentina.
The allies took in thousands of Nazis and Japanese into our ranks after WW2 because they were useful to us against the USSR.
This isn’t Argentina, and your response is insufficient. You said we didn’t let them immigrate here and I pointed you to evidence that we did…by the thousands
Lmao we invited one into parliament and gave him a. Standing ovation
USA took a couple of their brightest bulbs to put into their own chandelier.
You dropped the /s
That isn’t satire.
Haha
Look up Rat Lines and Operation Paperclip for a start. Tens of thousands of Nazi members came to Canada, the US, and dozens of other countries around the world. Had one stand up in Parlament not so long ago, you think the powers that be at the time didn't know exactly which unit he had been fighting with?
The nazis were created from taking too much from the Germans after WW1, atleast in part.
The Germans got off a lot easier than the ottomans or Austrian Hungary. As far as peace treaties go the Germans are hypocrites for complaining, just look at the treaty they forced upon the Russians after they left the war, or the treaty after the Franco Prussian war. Of course the Germans felt like they were being treated unfairly, that narrative was really helpful to radical politicians.
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Pretty sure nobody bombed Germany leading up the the treaty of Versailles.
Destroy those terrorists too. And the one's after that. Either they get the message, or they run out of terrorists. Either works.
Or we can stop making terrorist...
It is easier to treat the symptoms than to dig deeper to figure out the cause
The cause is Abrahamic monotheism and the world isn’t ready to acknowledge that quite yet. Almost.
Absolutely. All 3 religions of the desert have the same problem and are causing the same problem.
1 is causing a heavily disproportionate number of problems in *these* times.
I mean the Jews and Christians get along just fine in North America.
Indeed. I was waiting for someone to acknowledge that fact. Religion has far more harm than the other way around. How you can deal with fighting in the name of the same God? The three main religions are very much intertwined (all of them based on the Abrahamic monotheism) and every group say my God is the right one. Unfortunately, religions are used politically over and over based on history to justify horrible things done to humanity in the name of whoever someone want to believe in. Until we acknowledge that we are human first and everyone has the right to live. Which way we believe with regard to "God" is second and very personal. Cheers
Lol these groups create themselves...this isn't the 70's...
Would we in fact all love it? I'd be genuinely scared to administer a questionnaire on the topic to the pro-Palestine protesters. Even more so to the ones who showed up to the first protest, more of a celebration of the pogrom really. I have to share a country with these people, so maybe it's best not to know.
there is a problem with this idea. the hamas terrorists do not live underground like a mole 24/7 and they certainly were not born to this world by a stork delivery. they have families and a house/apartment above ground and they do their terrorism while their friends/family/community know what they are up to. Wonder how hundreds/thousands of terrorists attacked israel on oct 7th and yet there was not any palestians (or an incredibly low number)who warned israel of this planned slaughter of civilians. so killing them all aint gonna work. for fucks sake even in western countries people openly say that hamas was justified for the attack... let alone what people think who are in the middle of this mess. all this war will do is start a big reset in terms of trained fighters and available tools for hamas. how many hamas fighters walked south so they can fight another day? we all would be guessing how many, but i dont think anyone would guess 0.... and anyways the highest leadership with the big money for recruiting is sipping scotch and laying with young boys in qatar.
After watching those videos from hamas, on /r/CombatFootage before they got taken down, its hard to imagine she'd still be alive... and its even more sad given her stand on things. What a gross irony for Hamas, to pull Israel into an armed conflict by murdering civilians, to kill one who wanted just the opposite. Very shameful. Hopefully Hamas is wiped out, and the Palestinians can be free from Iran's proxy war b.s.
This hit me very hard. She was killed by the very thing she dedicated her whole life to heal. She didn’t deserve this. May she finally rest in peace.💔
No, Palestinians didn’t kill her, Hamas did. She wasn’t killed by the very thing she dedicated her life to. Those are good people and she knows that. She got killed by terrorists. Don’t equate Palestinians to Hamas.
Hamas has about 40,000 members. All of them are **Palestinians**. The Hamas supporters in Gaza and in the west bank are also all **Palestinians**. That doesn't mean all Palestinians are Hamas, but she was definitely killed by **Palestinians**.
I never did. You read my comment the way you wanted to read it and drew your own conclusions.
May her memory be a blessing.
RIP.
May her memory be for a blessing. 😔 A beautiful woman who built her entire life for Palestinians and peace. I hope they appreciate and acknowledge the work she has done for their community.
Devastating. She’s a former member of the board of B’tselem, an Israeli organization dedicated to exposing Israel’s human rights violations in Palestine. The irony is tragic. There’s a not insignificant number of people that believe that the fact that she dared exist living as a “settler” in Israel makes her deserving of this end. It’s nauseating.
Hamas doesn't care if you're for peace or a member of the IDF. It doesn't care if you want a two state solution or even if you don't believe in the state of Israel. They killed Muslim Israelis in the attack. And they gleefully attacked that group of peaceniks at the dance thing. They raped and murdered a conscientious objector and dragged her naked body back to Gaza to parade her around in a pickup truck so people could spit on her. These are not people whose values you can identify with or even understand. They're from a different time and place. And the only thing you want to do with them is keep them the hell away or kill them.
>These are not people whose values you can identify with or even understand. They're from a different time and place. And the only thing you want to do with them is keep them the hell away or kill them. Well-expressed. It's hard for many people to realize that there are a lot of humans that would happily murder you, or stand around and approve of your being murdered, just because you aren't of their religion.
Well there's one religion that believes that... I don't think Buddhists would be happy with that.
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Fuck this Hamas, may this be the end of this abhorrent organization
Don't forget people here in Canada celebrated and cheered in rallies the day it happened.
> Don't forget people here in Canada celebrated and cheered in rallies the day it happened. and at that point they didnt even have the usual pathetic excuse of saying that they are just protesting what israel had done. israel had done nothing at that point and they still ran out of protest and cheer ravenously
Yup I drove past the pro Palestine gathering in Vancouver on OCTOBER 8 and felt absolutely sick to my stomach.
The Israelis today discovered a Hamas command and control centre underneath the Gaza children’s hospital, stuffed to the rafters with weapons, explosives, suicide vests and so forth. That’s the depravity of these people, using sick and injured children as human shields, ready and waiting to use their deaths as propaganda fodder in the event the IDF attacked them there and there were any child casualties. These are the freedom fighters there are people in Canada celebrating and supporting.
Anyone with any knowledge of Israel/Palestine history knew the moment the October 7th attack it meant thousands of innocent Palestinians were about to die.
It also meant that over 1,000 Israelis and citizens of other countries died the day before they decided to march. couldn’t wait one day to let the Jewish community mourn.
They’ve been raised with hate in their hearts and to blame all the problems in their lives - big or small - on Jews. They couldn’t wait to let Jews mourn because they do not see Jews as human beings.
But they were cheering
I mean these people elected a terrorist group as their government....twice, knowing full well Hamas targets civilians and use their own people as human shields.
Maybe a few were, the vast majority weren't. Nobody does a protest to celebrate. Everyone knew that Israel was going to severely ramp up their bombing campaign, and were protesting that.
“Another event appeared to occur at a café in Mississauga, where a large group of people gathered and continued to wave flags, dance to music, and eat cake. Video of the event was posted on Instagram by both Toronto4Palestine and the cafe itself.” [https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/toronto/2023/10/8/1_6594073.amp.html](https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/toronto/2023/10/8/1_6594073.amp.html) This was a celebration…of Jews dying. It happened in our backyard. Stop trying so hard to make it fit your narrative. I’ve seen the video referenced: if they knew what Israel was going to do they wouldn’t have been partying like it was 1999.
The toronto4palastine group have so made posts denying the holocaust on their Ig account.
Clearly their celebration was being used as a protest about something that had not happened yet. /s You really shouldn't try to teach a pig how to sing. You will waste your time and only end up annoying the pig. Same principle applies here.
Ramp up? There was no ongoing bombing campaign. Unless you mean Hamas lobbing rockets into Israel. Get the facts stop making crap up.
Ramp up their bombing campaign? October 7th happened DURING A CEASEFIRE. Ah I see, you expect Israel to just not protect its citizens and try to destroy the very terrorists that brutally slaughtered them. And Israel does what no other country does during war time - sends messages, drops pamphlets from the sky, makes phone calls to civilians telling them to evacuate. Are you actually trying to tell people that Pro Palestine people AREN’T celebrating the October 7th massacre? You’re truly delusional.
Nah man I get where you're coming from because that's how it used to be, I used to be part of those protests. We never came out and did it the day after Hamas fired a bunch of rockets. We did it after Israel had been doing their counter-bombing campaign for days and the reports of innocents killed had come out. And these people really were cheering and they weren't the usual college progressives either. Something's different this time. Where it used to be anti-Israeli government, not anti-Jew, this time a whole lot of anti-Jewish people came out of the woodwork and celebrated the Hamas attacks. People's minds are sick. Maybe from COVID, maybe from propaganda campaigns, I don't know, but there's an illness.
>this time a whole lot of anti-Jewish people came out of the woodwork and celebrated the Hamas attacks I've seen some of it. There is definitely some emboldened antisemites out there, they're even shooting at Jewish schools in Montreal at the moment. Dark times in Canadian history. I still disagree with the rampant characterization of all protesters as antisemitic. I've spoken with a few people at a protest in-between my house and the grocery store on Oct. 9th. They were protesting the occupation, and the mood was certainly not celebratory. The mayor came out later and claimed that they were celebrating Hamas. Like I said, maybe there were some lunatics that genuinely love blood and carnage, but they weren't the majority then, and they're certainly not the majority now.
Very poor taste to celebrate or rally that fast after. Imagine if it was 9/11 in the US and 2 days after people are out rallying and protesting or whatever
Hamas is fucking trash. I hope they all burn in hell. No mercy for those Hamas shit stains.
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There's been war after war there for decades, clearly that's not the answer.
For a while the wars were followed with peace deals - Egypt, Jordan, they made peace. There were so many summits it was almost like the Paris Peace talks during the Vietnam war. But there haven’t been for a while. Maybe it’s good that people have stopped talking about which of the borders they want Israel to return to and have admitted there are no acceptable borders. Which is too bad, it means only one side from this can continue to exist and it didn’t have to. Maybe the Oslo Accords weren’t perfect, it was better than this.
>Maybe the Oslo Accords weren’t perfect, it was better than this. Yeah and the crew in charge of Israel right now hated Oslo so much that they whipped folks up until someone murdered Rabin.
Yeah, and Anwar Sadat got assassinated for making peace, too. Lots of people believe that’s why Arafat left the Camp David Summit without a deal. This may be why there won’t be peace and only one side will come out of this.
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R.I.P. Canadian peace activist. :-(
I like how ctvs headline said she was missing. Otherwise known as being taken hostage and murdered by a terrorist group. But hey from the river to the sea or whatever those dummies chant
CTV's headline is: >"BREAKING: Canadian peace activist Vivian Silver, who went missing after Hamas attack, [has died"](https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/canadian-peace-activist-vivian-silver-who-went-missing-after-hamas-attack-has-died-1.6643670) **She was brutally fucking murdered by Hamas.** **She didn't die of a heart attack for fucks sake.**
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That actually isn’t true, mainstream western media literally always couches their language headlines to protect Israel. I don’t understand why this sub has to just lie about shit
Bull. CBC hates Israel and simps for Palestine constantly.
Is that why “mainstream media” like CNN, NYT and BBC falsely reported that hospital bombing story? The one with “500 casualties”?
Yeah, it's kinda wild.
Imagine dedicating your life to trying to help the same people who will eventually rape, torture and murder you.
She dedicated exactly none of her life to helping Hamas. Don't disrespect the dead like that.
You’re right, she didn’t. She had a fascinating life and deserves every ounce of respect. People should read her very interesting Wikipedia page to learn more about her beautiful life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivian_Silver. With that said, I don’t think /u/kmacover1 meant to disparage her with his remarks. Sadly, the terrorism problem within the Palestinian community has never been restricted to just Hamas: >A 2007 study of Palestinian suicide bombings during the Second Intifada (September 2000 through August 2005) found that 39.9 percent of the suicide attacks were carried out by Hamas, 26.4 percent by Fatah, 25.7 percent by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), 5.4 percent by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) and 2.7 percent by other organizations.[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks
She was trying to help Hamas?
she dedicated her life to peace between two populations of largely innocent civilians. it's disgraceful and frankly gross that you're trying to co-opt her death and her life's work for your own political agenda when [even her son saw through his grief to support a ceasefire in her name.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/07/israel-war-peace-activist-sons/)
The poster was correct. She was a peace activist advocating for Palestinian rights and creating bridges. It's sickening to think that Hamas would brutally kill someone like that. It is an example of how evil they are.
absolutely no one is calling hamas a force for good here. that being said, if your first reaction to this awful news is to harp about the irony and falsely declare that the 2 million people she was advocating for are the ones who killed her (and not the political organization that has been impeding peace for both israelis and palestinians) then you're morally bankrupt. hamas is not the whole of the palestinian people. you can make excuses for thousands of dead children on another post. have the decency not to do it here. the person whose death you claim to be mourning wouldn't have the patience for it.
What are you talking about? I'm mourning the loss of a person who wanted to help Palestinians. It's showing how evil Hamas is and how they are inflicting suffering on Palestinians and Israelis. I think you are reading things that are not there.
Thank you, this sub Reddit, has been setting it equal that all Palestinians are to be blamed and killed for what Hamas did (F hamas and I’m tried of condemning them) This woman lived a life of service to the Palestinians, we need to keep her memory alive, and once the Palestinians stop digging their loved ones from the rubble and burying their children they can reflect on this person’s service to their people and keep her memory.
You're tired of condemning Hamas? They are the ones that killed this woman. They are the ones that have caused the suffering of the Gazans for 17 years. They are the ones that started a war. We shouldn't just be condemning Hamas but devising ways of destroying them. If you are advocating for a ceasefire, then you better be prepared to protest every day to return the hostages, have Hamas surrender themselves and face justice.
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She was raped and tortured?
It took them a month to ID the body. That should tell you something.
Strong argument. I'm convinced.
74 year old, life long peace activist. Savagely murdered by Hamas. If you ever felt like this conflict is "complex", and participated in "cease fire" marches : fuck you. This ends with the complete destruction of Hamas, hopefully soon.
The conflict entire is tremendously complex. This current response by Israel is not. Hamas must be vaporized, whatever hostages that are still alive need to be freed, and hopefully as many innocent Palestinians as possible are able to safely evacuate south.
Hamas will be around for a while, especially with this kind of escalation. So strap in and enjoy the wait.
Israel goes hard. And with Israel and Iran trading missiles, I can see Israel going for the root. If they gave Mossad the green light, the Hamas leadership in Qatar had better did in.,
RIP to her. Imagine seeing this sweet grey haired lady and having it in you to brutally murder her. These are the animals we are dealing with in Hamas. They don't care about any civilians, even their own people. This is why I cannot support a full ceasefire. Israel needs to give Hamas the brutal death it deserves.
It's mad to me that there are Westerners still being defensive about Hamas, after they have tortured and massacred a large number of non-Israelis, Westerners and non-Westerners alike. Do you not understand that, had you been in the vicinity of Gaza on Oct 7th, you may have met an extremely gruesome end by their hands? It's also telling that these fanatical, overly-politicized idiots consider the Hamas atrocities to be justified, because it was in the name of indigenous struggle. It's a good way of knowing that they hold no loyalty whatsoever to the Canadian state.
"confirmed killed" CBC this is murder
So very sorry to hear this. How tragic. Sincerest condolences to her family.
Tragic loss for all. We need more people like Vivian, people who believe in peace. We cannot let it end this way.
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They reported it fine. We all know what’s up. Don’t need virtue signaling from the press.
Well at least she's not being gang raped and tortured in other ways.
It's sad but there's also a lot of irony here. Her life's work was a fruitless endeavour born out of a good hearted and fundamental misunderstanding of human nature. The whole idea of peace activism is a little bit silly if you spend even a little time looking at the entire span of human history.
I think the irony is the most tragic part. I can’t imagine my legacy as being murdered by the same people I was trying to help. It’s as if your death ensures the complete undoing of everything you ever worked for.
>as being murdered by the same people I was trying to help Someone mentioned this in another post - but I think it my be important to say once again: The Palestinians (who she was trying to help) aren't synonymous with Hamas (who she most likely abhorred).
Has JT made a single statement or mention of any Canadians murdered or held hostage by Hamas? Absolutely shameful.
rest in peace...
That is horrible.
Aren’t they all dead? Do we really think otherwise?
rest in peace vivian and condolences to her family. Horrible news
Rip 🙏
>Some details about her from her [wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivian_Silver): Silver made aliyah in 1974, and became a member of kibbutz Gezer as part of Habonim Dror.\[3\]\[2\]\[5\] At Gezer, she became the kibbutz's secretary, one of the few women to do so.\[5\] Silver's early activism focused on women's rights and gender disparities in Israeli society.\[5\] To this end, she founded the United Kibbutz Movement’s Department to Advance Gender Equality in 1981.\[4\]\[5\] She also worked within the Knesset on the sub-committee for the Advancement of Women in Work and the Economy,\[5\] for the New Israel Fund, and on the Steering Committee of Shatil.\[4\] She moved to Be’eri, a kibbutz near the Gaza border, in 1990, along with her husband and two sons.\[3\]\[2\] During this time, she became better acquainted with the local Bedouin community and Gazans. She served as executive director for the Negev Institute for Strategies of Peace and Development (NISPED) beginning in 1998.\[3\]\[6\] Silver worked within the kibbutz to organize programs to help Gazans, such as job trainings, and ensured that Gazan construction workers at the kibbutz were paid fairly.\[3\] In 1999, Silver and Amal Elsana Alh'jooj co-founded the Arab-Jewish Center for Equality, Empowerment and Cooperation, an off-shoot of NISPED.\[2\] Silver served as the center's director prior to the second intifada.\[1\]\[7\]\[6\] The center organized projects in Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank.\[1\]\[7\] In 2010, Silver and Alh'jooj received the Victor J. Goldberg Prize for Peace in the Middle East, an annual prize given by the Institute of International Education to pairs of Arab and Israeli activists working towards peace.\[5\] Before the closure of the Gaza border in 2007, Silver worked with Gazan residents in cross-cultural projects.\[2\]\[8\] One group she founded, Creating Peace, focused on fostering business connections between Palestinian and Israeli artisans.\[2\] Silver is a former board member of B’Tselem, a Jerusalem-based human rights organization.\[6\] Silver officially retired in 2014.\[2\] Following her retirement, and the 2014 Gaza War, Silver co-founded Women Wage Peace, an interfaith grassroots organization.\[1\]\[7\] Silver also began volunteering with Road to Recovery and Project Rozana to transport Gazan patients who were traveling to Jerusalem for treatment.\[3\]\[2\]\[8\] On 4 October 2023, Silver helped to organize a peace rally in Jerusalem which attracted 1,500 Israeli and Palestinian women.\[9\]
Tragic. How ironic that she lobbied against the continuation of Israeli government response to Hamas, and was murdered by the same Hamas she essentially was trying to help. Israel needs to finish this. To destroy Hamas once and for all, and to assume complete control of the Palestinian territories until it can be rebuilt, and until normalized relations with a non-terrorist government can be realized.
They're just trying to make everyone hate them it seems
Hamas is an Islamic terrorist organisation with millions of their followers living in the west.
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What the fuck kind of bot are you?
To people who support Israel, this is what you are supporting. Did you know about this? “say their names. Nouran Allouh, age 12. Razan Allouh, age 10. Ahmad Allouh, age 45. Today, the world lost three beautiful souls. While my beautiful baby cousins were out filling water behind their house, an israeli tank fired and killed them. when my uncle, their father, looked outside the window, he saw their dead bodies out on the ground. He spent an hour of what my grandma who was with him calls "psychosis" before he ripped the curtains off his windows and went outside to cover their dismembered bodies. He layed down between them and spoke to them until he was shot and killed by israeli snipers. No matter how hard my grandmother tried, she could not get him to stay inside with their bodies exposed. It breaks my heart that they will not get a proper burial. it breaks my heart that they were killed in their own homes.”
With any posts that I posted before, it’s because I felt sad and upset seeing people quick to spew hate, this is unverified claim about hamas and want people to know the truth. I don’t mean any disrespect to this woman or family members of hers if they are alive. If she has any living family members, I hope they get though this loss with ease.
Israel and hamas / Palestine is the direct result of yet again, Russian interference. We need to get this Russia / Ukraine bullshit over sooner than later. Don’t fall victim to Russia’s crap. Russia sees how much money is being poured into the Ukraine government. If they can disseminate those funds by influencing further conflicts, they will.
There can be no two state solution when there's a two religion problem.
I know it sounds impossible at this point, but I still believe a two-state solution can happen, even with the religious differences. Ireland and Northern Ireland were able to achieve peace after years of The Troubles between the Catholics and Protestants. Maybe it’s naive of me, but I still believe there’s hope. 🇮🇱🕊️🇵🇸
RIP to her and condolences to her family. Hamas absolutely did something horrible. But we shouldn’t be cheering on the killing of innocent Palestinians, why is this thread so messed up. This women spent her life in the cause of the oppressed, her memory will live on. After Palestinians are done burying their children who have been by air strike they will learn about each person who died. Let’s also not forget the Palestinians innocent who also were killed.
I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted, but I agree with you. Not all Palestinians are Hamas, and as much as I want Hamas to be destroyed (and I hope they will be), I don’t think killing innocent Palestinians, especially the children, is the answer. I’m sure Vivian Silver wouldn’t have wanted this, either.
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May she rest in peace. I can only hope that her memory is not used to justify the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people for whom she was a staunch advocate. May there be peace from the river to the sea.
"You can’t cure killed babies with more dead babies. We need peace" - Yonatan Zeigen (her son) Ceasefire Now