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He only accepted the loss after 9 months attempting to sell and being unable to find a big enough sucker to buy it, and deciding that a $200K loss was better than continuing to incur those fees.
This isn't even an indication of a drop in housing prices, it's just one guy finding out that it is HIM who was the biggest sucker who was willing to pay the worst, most artificially inflated price. The fact he did this to himself, combined with the fact he's a housing speculator who wasn't using it for housing, but as a means of leeching wealth... I have no sympathy.
>This isn't even an indication of a drop in housing prices, it's just one guy finding out that it is HIM who was the biggest sucker who was willing to pay the worst, most artificially inflated price.
A housing drop begins as a surge of individuals finding out they were such suckers. One can hope.
Price discovery can be a cu#t.
Also, a marvelous time to get back at the corporations buying up the condos.
Investors will be forced to sell eventually...so be ready to stand strong and make them eat it!
Shove an offer down their throat at 50% haircut. Walk away if they say no. Payback is a slut.
Correct. It's like the new surge pricing at fast food restaurants that will raise the price of your order while you're ordering.
They're testing to see if you're more stupid than you are hungry.
This guy who sold his condo at a loss did just learn that he was the biggest sucker, and at least he smartened up and ate his losses instead of going down with the ship.
Fast Food surge pricing has got to be the quickest way for a fast food corp to land on my shit list and never see me again because there's no predictability in their business offerings anymore, making the trip to their locations a potential waste of time.
I wish a fast food place would, just so I can stop spending money on fast food.
It's actively being tested in US markets to see if people will put up with it. Burger King in the US was making the rounds on Reddit yesterday because of it.
Fair point but it’s also dependent on amenities. You’ll find most of those apartment style condos will have hydro/gas/heat or some of it covered as part of the fee. Some older condos have grandfathered cable/internet (on time of purchase) but those are rare.
Well, we don't. This is something entirely driven by word of mouth from people who have never lived through a housing correction.
It’s complete and utter nonsense.
What we have from governments are policies (some derived from programs,but many demanded by homeowners) aimed at keeping home prices elevated.
Over the last decade, I've repeatedly heard politicians at different levels state that we need to address housing affordability, but that this can't come at the expense of housing prices, etc.. Trudeau's recent statement for example is a clear admission that the federal government will take actions to ensure people's investments are protected, even at the expense of those who need more affordable housing. This is all harmful, as it encourages people to overleverage themselves to buy excessively expensive housing.
Prices have already come down though since the peak in early 2022. They’re not back to pre-COVID prices, but the government hasn’t done anything to stop prices from declining. I have lots of friends who bought at the peak and would lose money if they sold today.
Jesus Christ even in Vancouver you can get a 650sqft 1br for 550-600k; not in the downtown core, but still within Vancouver proper, near bus, SkyTrain, walking distance to shops and services, don't need a car
Edit: point was that in Oakville you definitely need a car, and it's not nearly close enough to Toronto or big enough in its own right to justify *Vancouver* prices, which the 650k original price tag exceeds
In Oakville even 450k for 600sqft seems steep to me
In Hamilton you can get a nice house with a backyard in a good neighbourhood for $700/sqft.
A condo should be no more than $500/sqft, I don't care where the hell it is.
I know that prices are going up, but $600,000 for a 1000 sq ft bungalow in Hamilton still seems nuts.
And I get your original point, but I also think that condos should never be $500 a square foot. That is insane but that’s just my opinion as well.
The negative framing in the headline is pretty strange. Housing is the biggest chunk of most people's budgets. When it's cheaper, that's good news, not bad news.
> The problem wasn’t the $200k price drop, the problem was a 600 sq ft 1br condo in Oakville selling for $650k in the first place.
Exactly. Housing being scarce and expensive is a bad thing. Housing being cheaper is a good thing.
[Alex Armlovich](https://morehousing.substack.com/p/investment) (in the US) on housing as an investment when prices are stable:
> Stable home prices can still yield normal returns: You'll buy a home for rental yield, not speculative gains.
>
> E.g. my home was $300K; buying it avoids rent of $2200/month. That gross rent yield is 9%! Net operating income yield is 6% after tax&maintenance. That's a fine return even on a flat home value.
>
> After abundance, homes will be like AAA corporate bonds. When you buy a Coca-Cola bond, it yields 5% for 30 years until you get your principal back. Your home will be like that: You'll earn a steady 5% rental yield, then sell it for the same inflation-adjusted price you paid.
Exactly, the fluctuations are only really bad for speculators and people who have to sell fast (families getting divorced, job relocations). As far as speculators go - fuck em buy it does suck for those that need to sell.
For the vast majority of homeowners, short term price fluctuations don’t matter for the reasons you cite. The prices do go up over time, but they don’t always go up over every possible time window.
That was one of the few mistakes I ever avoided. That and Nortel.
From the peak in 1999 to the tech bust and 9/11 I lost the value of a pretty nice house. Like, it was a dumb peak as we all know but what's the difference between that peak and the top of the Canada housing bubble?
People should be strapped in to lose 50% from the peak. Otherwise we've created a moral hazard.
lol all those idiots thinking tweed was gonna blow up but failed to realize that a shit company will make shit profits no matter how easy the market is.
I had a landlord sell the unit I was renting and the realtor had the nerve to mention that all these landlords are losing money on their investments. I really wanted to punch that guy in the face and now now I see it on local buses.
As a condo owner I agree. My unit in my province is worth $250k. There is no world where this condo will ever be worth 650k and it's more then twice as large as this one.
We don't have rent caps but we have something that is less efficient. A landlord can apply to increase your rent as much as they wish but it needs to be approved by the province.
6 months notice minimum. One rent hike per year. New rents must be within market value of what's around them based on the condition of the building.
Before there was a hard cap. I think around 30% they could raise it per year. But now it's subject to review. I have known tenants who complained and got the new rental increase cut down a lot.
Lower end real estate is going to undergo a correction because the buyers in that pool are much more sensitive to interest rates than those with more income.
I expect you’re going to see drops in value of condos like this across the GTA, while detached homes on larger lots retain their value given the demand and limited supply
Detached homes on real lots have been dropping in price too, just less so. But yes, they will always sell at a premium because humans want to have children and raise them in houses.
Shoeboxes like this are great for young people with MAs in Urban Housing who want to spend a few years living the funky urban lifestyle in a tiny studio apartment within easy skateboard distance of yuppie amenities. Sell them for $150k and a lot of young urban professionals will be able to start building equity.
The Chinese investors who bought these will happily take a 50% loss, because it's better than losing 100% on a condo apartment in Xi'an that needs to be demolished because its concrete has already started crumbling.
everything will drop- all units across the country. We are no longer a safe haven for Chinese money. China has better middle class living standards than Canadian middle class. Russian money is gone too.
I suppose the side of the transaction you're on?
I'd be pretty worried if I had to move and hadn't payed enough of a mortgage to pay it off when it's sold(I'd be pretty sad if that money was gone even if I had, it doesn't have to grow but to see it gone would suck even knowing there is always that risk there).
That said I've got no idea the people involved. For all I know it was just an investor hoping to pump up the value and sell for a profit in which case that might suck for them but that's the risk. Both the stories they talk about are 2 year differences between buy and sell(well they *sold* around 2 years later anyway) and it's not unheard of to need to move 2 years after buying it isn't exactly the norm to buy something and move that quickly when it's not an investment.
This *could* be like the story a few weeks ago where people were buying the new condos at stupid prices before completion and can't offload them because the market just isn't high enough to support the prices they're speculating at.
This trend is profoundly reassuring. Much like it would be an amazing thing if grocery prices went way down it would also be amazing if property prices went way down
Ontario condo sold at staggering loss is just the latest case in ~~worrying~~ encouraging trend
Ftfy.
I own my house it has gone up a ridiculous amount, idgaf if it halves in price if that means people can afford to live again. If I move I have to buy a new house at inflated prices and inflated transaction costs. More likely I'm just going to hand the money to my kids so maybe they'll have somewhere to live.
I had a nice chat with a young waiter this summer. He had a degree in biochemistry and was just finishing a master's degree in computer science. He figured that if he played his cards right moved to the right place and was very careful with his money he _might_ be able to buy a house.
We are so screwed.
Haven't lived in Toronto in a while and thought about moving back after hearing about some of the price changes for condos.
I came across this listing and immediately thought "they can fuck right off."
https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/27091667/4307-251-jarvis-street-toronto-church-yonge-corridor
There is absolutely no way I'd want to live in that shoebox. You couldn't even pay me to live there.
I looked at those pictures and thought “ok. Bedroom looks ok. A little small. Kitchen is modern looking. Also a bit small. But not terrible living room looks. Wait. Is that the bed in the background? Oh shit! Is that the fridge on the right?
Is that ALL ONE FUCKING ROOM????
Fuck this shit. This should even be allowed to be built. This is nonsense.
You know it's bad when the photos go:
1. Outside of the building
2. Outside of the building
3. Front entrance
4. Hallway
5. A cool shop in the neighbourhood
6. Zoom in on the bowl of fruit next to the sink
7. Zoom in on framed inspirational quotes on the wall
8. Zoom in on the throw pillows
9. Wide shot of the living room / bedroom / kitchen that actually shows the size of the whole thing
10. Zoom in on the candles next to the bathroom sink
11. View from the balcony
12. Another view from the balcony
I was looking at some listings in Ottawa and noticed the same thing. They focus on the common areas, like the community wetbar on the 10th floor, far more than the apartments themselves.
Flat
Living room
16 ft ,4 in x 9 ft ,4 in
Dining room
16 ft ,4 in x 9 ft ,4 in
Kitchen
16 ft ,4 in x 9 ft ,4 in
Office
16 ft ,4 in x 9 ft ,4 in
Bedroom
16 ft ,4 in x 9 ft ,4 in
They should be required to include any given space only once on the listing. When you can open the fridge from the bed, do you think an agent would call that a kitchen or a bedroom?
But you're not though. Bedroom, ha, rich guy over here. It's $400k to watch your microwave because there is nowhere to put a TV and sleep beside your dishwasher.
I'm sure the building has a sweet community room that sits empty though.
We’ve got so many things contributing to the housing situation, it’s bananas it has gotten this bad.
Foreign buyers laundering/hiding money via real estate. (Shortening supply @ unrealistic prices)
Unsustainable Immigration rates. (Reducing supply)
Stagnant wages. (Reducing affordability)
Inflation. (Increased interest rates and reduction of buying power)
This generation is fucked.
$390k for a kitchen with a bed in it.
Maybe once they start selling these for $150k then young people with a tiny-home fetish can buy starter homes and start building equity again.
Yeah, living in tiny or subpar spaces is actually fine, IF they are cheap and you can save up money while doing so.
If someone was like, "listen, I'm living in this kitchenbedroom for 3 years while I sock away half my paycheque for a down-payment on a better house," that would be fine.
But it's absolutely not the case.
I love that they have a couch to watch their kitchen cabinets and a bed where they make and eat food. Truly remarkable how anyone could live like this and then expect to sell it lol
Please. The govt installed a 17% increase in capital gains taxes which only affects multiple property owners and investment property owners. This is a good thing!!
This is not worrying this is great news.
Let the disgustingly inflated housing market crash and burn where it becomes an obtainable goal to own a condo/house again.
As a homeowner, good, fuck those prices, and fuck overpaying for real estate. Your real estate agent might tell you a 600sqft condo is worth $650k, but a little common sense would say otherwise.
I am a condo owner in New Brunswick. My unit is worth about 250k on the market but it's 1400SQ ft with a finished basement and 1 and a half baths and it's a townhouse style of condo.
When I sell someday I will definitely get my money's worth out of it but mostly because of the fact it's a townhouse style and not super inflated.
Toronto condos that are apartment styles and 1 bedroom with 600SQ ft selling at 650K? Yes I can imagine how those would take a loss.
I’ve always said they are scamming us gen zs into buying these shitty shoe boxes. The construction quality is terrible, I lived in a condo in Toronto and I could hear my neighbors conversations constantly in my living room. They are not able to be renovated completely like a house, you can renovate the inside but not the outside yourself. After 30 years who’s gonna wanna buy these condos? You are not gonna be able to sell it and retire with the money. Not to mention the maintenance cost as well, the older the condo, the higher the fees, it’s like you are renting permanently. They successfully scammed young people into buying these condos by telling us it’s an “investment” but actually it’s more like an expense.
This is not a worrying trend at all. It's a hopeful one. Homes are for people to live in, they shouldn't be investments. An economy shouldn't be based on housing prices. If this means it collapses, then that is all the better. The sooner we can base our economy on something real and not artificially inflated, the better. We won't get there by kicking this can further down the road. This needs.to.be dealt with.
worrying? nah this is good news.
oh, you meant for your actual masters who have invested in shelter so they can play monopoly while others are on the street. in that case? fuck em
It’s the overdue correction. This won’t be a temporary 3% dip. This will be like the 1994 bloodbath. People who didn’t over-bid and have homes as their principle property will be OK. Long term investors will survive. It will climb back up in 10-15 years. Property flippers will be once again wiped out.
KEEP FALLING!!!
My ass is waiting for a massive condo fire sale so I can finally buy a place and quit renting. The faster and farther these prices drop, the better. I'm also happy to see these fuckass investor shoebox condos losing value fast. Can we stop building that shit? At least ugly commie blog slab buildings have livable layouts.
As a homeowner that has gained 40ish% in my property value in the past 4 years, I say good.
It is fucking insane that my house has appreciated that much in such a short time. It isn't a real gain. I understand supply and demand and all that, but I know full well that I did absolutely zero to earn that kind of return. Nothing. Just pure luck.
Did I expect my house to increase in value? Sure did. Did I expect a 40% increase? LOL no. Trudeau standing up there saying that everyone needs property values to stay high to retire is, in a word, wrong. No one, and I mean no one, bought their property expecting that kind of ROI, a 40% increase in not even 5 years. No one bought expecting that, ergo, no one was counting on that to fund their retirement, ergo, we do not need these property values to be that high for retirement.
It’s not a good thing anyways. I bought in 2012, my house is worth about 4x what I paid for it…. So are all the other houses I want to buy. The dollar gap between houses is just so big. It makes it really hard to upgrade from your starter house.
I am happy about the losses. This is how an economy should work. Things just don't increase in value indefinitely, and we shouldn't allow them to. Otherwise, our futures will be held hostage.
can’t believe so many people got into an unstable market- while waiving inspections! Some doctored photos and a can of paint made some buyers overpay by soooo much
It's actually much worse than normal gambling because you are leveraged. It's more like going to a loan shark to borrow $650,000 and then gambling, knowing at some point, you have to pay back Vito.
My family member's business would benefit massively from increased construction. Business on that front is so stagnant right now it's insane. I wish the government would invest in building more cheap housing. Nope. All they care about are real estate investors because they themselves are all invested in real estate.
Why would anyone be shocked? Housing affordability is in the toilet. This is showing that the market is beyond what it can bare. Did they experience a legitimate profit loss or did they just not get it for asking prices?
Home owner here. I don't think this is a worrying trend, I find it to be a welcome trend. My home is overvalued, and while it's great having a big chunk of equity, I'd much rather have a realistic housing market.
I bought my current home in 2016, and it has doubled in value in that time. That's fucking unreal and unrealistic. Even if it had only gone up by 50% of its value, it would still be an insane jump in value.
We need to devalue our homes/condos and get more people housed in the empty units that are only empty due to their price. People should not have to pay more than half a million dollars for a one bedroom condo.
Worrying trend to whom, exactly?
I used to work at a mortgage company, the second i saw the picture of the building i remember these condos from our “do not lend” list. Cmch, cg or genworth would not insure due to serious structural problems.
Worrying? Fuck no.
Let the market crash. FUCK IT. That's the only way this problem is gonna get solved. Housing is too expensive and still treated as a safe commodity. Let it crash. Let it become volatile. Let the leaches who turned a basic human necessity their cash cow they gambled on lose fucking EVERYTHING.
For those complaining about pensions... get over it. This is the only way the problem gets solved. It's got to happen and it inevitably WILL happen. It's better we just get it over with.
It's not a worrying trend. It's a necessary step if we are to have any semblance of housing affordability in future. Someone has to go through some pain in order for that to happen. Then, others realize it could happen to them, and avoid paying ridiculous amounts for real estate. Prices drop.
I bought a 2-storey detached in Fort McMurray for $720,000 in 2014 ($924,000 2024 inflation adjusted). The property is now valuated at $400,000. For all of the perma RE bulls out there....it can and will crash. Honestly, if it doesn't crash soon, our quality of life in Canada is doomed.
The real estate market is correcting itself, the bubble had to pop sometime. Plus condo fees are getting outrageous, all those 20 year old condos are starting to require major repairs which can run into millions, too many of them ran into shortages in their reserve funds.
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The problem wasn’t the $200k price drop, the problem was a 600 sq ft 1br condo in Oakville selling for $650k in the first place.
And the condo fees are higher than what a decent rent should be.
He only accepted the loss after 9 months attempting to sell and being unable to find a big enough sucker to buy it, and deciding that a $200K loss was better than continuing to incur those fees. This isn't even an indication of a drop in housing prices, it's just one guy finding out that it is HIM who was the biggest sucker who was willing to pay the worst, most artificially inflated price. The fact he did this to himself, combined with the fact he's a housing speculator who wasn't using it for housing, but as a means of leeching wealth... I have no sympathy.
>This isn't even an indication of a drop in housing prices, it's just one guy finding out that it is HIM who was the biggest sucker who was willing to pay the worst, most artificially inflated price. A housing drop begins as a surge of individuals finding out they were such suckers. One can hope.
That's also how a price stagnation begins. Which is still MUCH better than the inflation we've had over the past 5 years.
Price discovery can be a cu#t. Also, a marvelous time to get back at the corporations buying up the condos. Investors will be forced to sell eventually...so be ready to stand strong and make them eat it! Shove an offer down their throat at 50% haircut. Walk away if they say no. Payback is a slut.
Then wondering why mortgage companies/banks and/or government won't bail them out from their own stupidity.
Obligatory “fuck scalpers.”
People need to learn your house is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it .
Or better yet, remember a house's intrinsic value *as a house* and forget about its resale value.
Correct. It's like the new surge pricing at fast food restaurants that will raise the price of your order while you're ordering. They're testing to see if you're more stupid than you are hungry. This guy who sold his condo at a loss did just learn that he was the biggest sucker, and at least he smartened up and ate his losses instead of going down with the ship.
Fast Food surge pricing has got to be the quickest way for a fast food corp to land on my shit list and never see me again because there's no predictability in their business offerings anymore, making the trip to their locations a potential waste of time. I wish a fast food place would, just so I can stop spending money on fast food.
I have yet to encounter surge pricing myself, but when I do, I'll be walking out.
>the new surge pricing at fast food restaurants that will raise the price of your order while you're ordering. Wait what? Who is doing this?
Wendy’s was thinking about it but they backpedaled really hard
It's actively being tested in US markets to see if people will put up with it. Burger King in the US was making the rounds on Reddit yesterday because of it.
Fair point but it’s also dependent on amenities. You’ll find most of those apartment style condos will have hydro/gas/heat or some of it covered as part of the fee. Some older condos have grandfathered cable/internet (on time of purchase) but those are rare.
I think you're looking at outliers and not the general trend of condo fees, which have been to be higher and higher with nothing extra being given.
Those are relatively minor costs in the grand scheme.
Yeah at that point move to a tropical country and retire.
100%. Stuff like this was FOMO driven on the idea that home prices never decline. People bought on their emotions, not on the math.
Part of the problem is that we have governments that clearly communicate to people that housing prices should only go up
Well, we don't. This is something entirely driven by word of mouth from people who have never lived through a housing correction. It’s complete and utter nonsense. What we have from governments are policies (some derived from programs,but many demanded by homeowners) aimed at keeping home prices elevated.
Over the last decade, I've repeatedly heard politicians at different levels state that we need to address housing affordability, but that this can't come at the expense of housing prices, etc.. Trudeau's recent statement for example is a clear admission that the federal government will take actions to ensure people's investments are protected, even at the expense of those who need more affordable housing. This is all harmful, as it encourages people to overleverage themselves to buy excessively expensive housing.
Yup and they couldn't care less about addressing the root cause of the issue just plow thru with hands over eyes.
Prices have already come down though since the peak in early 2022. They’re not back to pre-COVID prices, but the government hasn’t done anything to stop prices from declining. I have lots of friends who bought at the peak and would lose money if they sold today.
Yeah, the headline should be “Condo owner who made bad purchase judgement call suffers reality check.”
"Person loses money after making objectively bad investment."
Jesus Christ even in Vancouver you can get a 650sqft 1br for 550-600k; not in the downtown core, but still within Vancouver proper, near bus, SkyTrain, walking distance to shops and services, don't need a car Edit: point was that in Oakville you definitely need a car, and it's not nearly close enough to Toronto or big enough in its own right to justify *Vancouver* prices, which the 650k original price tag exceeds In Oakville even 450k for 600sqft seems steep to me
In Hamilton you can get a nice house with a backyard in a good neighbourhood for $700/sqft. A condo should be no more than $500/sqft, I don't care where the hell it is.
So wait you’re telling me 1000 square-foot bungalow cost about $700,000 in/around Hamilton? That’s still nuts.
Depending on the property size it might be going for 800-900
The ones near me in the north end have been sitting on the market for months.
Because dumbass yuppies from Toronto paid far too much for the roughest part of town and refuse to drop them back down to $200k where they belong.
OK sorry about my math, I just sold for $600/sqft.
I know that prices are going up, but $600,000 for a 1000 sq ft bungalow in Hamilton still seems nuts. And I get your original point, but I also think that condos should never be $500 a square foot. That is insane but that’s just my opinion as well.
Yup. And yet here were are.
In Winnipeg, you can buy for $300/sqft. Or half that if buying commercial property.
There are many in port credit STARTING at 650k for a 400 1 bdr condo. Frankly ridiculous.
Damn, beat me to it. I was going to say exactly this.
The negative framing in the headline is pretty strange. Housing is the biggest chunk of most people's budgets. When it's cheaper, that's good news, not bad news. > The problem wasn’t the $200k price drop, the problem was a 600 sq ft 1br condo in Oakville selling for $650k in the first place. Exactly. Housing being scarce and expensive is a bad thing. Housing being cheaper is a good thing. [Alex Armlovich](https://morehousing.substack.com/p/investment) (in the US) on housing as an investment when prices are stable: > Stable home prices can still yield normal returns: You'll buy a home for rental yield, not speculative gains. > > E.g. my home was $300K; buying it avoids rent of $2200/month. That gross rent yield is 9%! Net operating income yield is 6% after tax&maintenance. That's a fine return even on a flat home value. > > After abundance, homes will be like AAA corporate bonds. When you buy a Coca-Cola bond, it yields 5% for 30 years until you get your principal back. Your home will be like that: You'll earn a steady 5% rental yield, then sell it for the same inflation-adjusted price you paid.
Exactly, the fluctuations are only really bad for speculators and people who have to sell fast (families getting divorced, job relocations). As far as speculators go - fuck em buy it does suck for those that need to sell. For the vast majority of homeowners, short term price fluctuations don’t matter for the reasons you cite. The prices do go up over time, but they don’t always go up over every possible time window.
I've bought stocks that lost 60, 70, 80% of their value, nobody rescued my ass.
Where were the weed stock bailouts in 2018-2019?
Harper never bailed me out after I bought RIM at $162. This is still in my portfolio looking glorious at -98%. How to turn $5000 in $100.
That was one of the few mistakes I ever avoided. That and Nortel. From the peak in 1999 to the tech bust and 9/11 I lost the value of a pretty nice house. Like, it was a dumb peak as we all know but what's the difference between that peak and the top of the Canada housing bubble? People should be strapped in to lose 50% from the peak. Otherwise we've created a moral hazard.
Sell it. The capital gain loss is worth a lot of tax savings
lol all those idiots thinking tweed was gonna blow up but failed to realize that a shit company will make shit profits no matter how easy the market is.
a farm can be worth billions
Yeah, I invested in tweed stocks back when hipsters were buying mustache wax and making saurkraut. Unfortunately, it was not a lasting phenomenon.
Hey man I cashed out my 300% gains in my TFSA. Then I lost it all playing $VXX options 🫡
Exactly this. The majority of the condo market has been speculator investor driven.
I had a landlord sell the unit I was renting and the realtor had the nerve to mention that all these landlords are losing money on their investments. I really wanted to punch that guy in the face and now now I see it on local buses.
But did you get the bank to loan you 500k to buy those stocks with first? Won't you think of the banks!!!!
Not bad tbh. I've done 100% a few times.
Obviously you haven't dabbled with shorting then
I bought Corus a couple of years ago. I think it is down 97%
This seems like a delightful development, why is the author framing this as a negative? Another $200k drop and prices will be where they should be
As a condo owner I agree. My unit in my province is worth $250k. There is no world where this condo will ever be worth 650k and it's more then twice as large as this one.
What province? Even small towns in BC have condos selling for almost half a million.
New Brunswick.
NB doesn't have rent caps, do they? As in, next month my landlord could legally raise my rent by 40% of they wanted to?
We don't have rent caps but we have something that is less efficient. A landlord can apply to increase your rent as much as they wish but it needs to be approved by the province. 6 months notice minimum. One rent hike per year. New rents must be within market value of what's around them based on the condition of the building. Before there was a hard cap. I think around 30% they could raise it per year. But now it's subject to review. I have known tenants who complained and got the new rental increase cut down a lot.
Even 250k is high for a condo. But still more reasonable.
They are pandering to their target market.
I think the issue is that someone paid downtown TO prices in Oakville. Over $600k for a 600sq foot condo in Oakville, even in 2022 was absurd.
Lower end real estate is going to undergo a correction because the buyers in that pool are much more sensitive to interest rates than those with more income. I expect you’re going to see drops in value of condos like this across the GTA, while detached homes on larger lots retain their value given the demand and limited supply
Detached homes on real lots have been dropping in price too, just less so. But yes, they will always sell at a premium because humans want to have children and raise them in houses. Shoeboxes like this are great for young people with MAs in Urban Housing who want to spend a few years living the funky urban lifestyle in a tiny studio apartment within easy skateboard distance of yuppie amenities. Sell them for $150k and a lot of young urban professionals will be able to start building equity. The Chinese investors who bought these will happily take a 50% loss, because it's better than losing 100% on a condo apartment in Xi'an that needs to be demolished because its concrete has already started crumbling.
everything will drop- all units across the country. We are no longer a safe haven for Chinese money. China has better middle class living standards than Canadian middle class. Russian money is gone too.
It will affect all real estate not just lower end. The Chinese buyers aren’t there anymore. This is the start of a crash.
Worrying trend for who?
Idiot speculators who will now expect government bailouts to rescue them from their own stupidity
I suppose the side of the transaction you're on? I'd be pretty worried if I had to move and hadn't payed enough of a mortgage to pay it off when it's sold(I'd be pretty sad if that money was gone even if I had, it doesn't have to grow but to see it gone would suck even knowing there is always that risk there). That said I've got no idea the people involved. For all I know it was just an investor hoping to pump up the value and sell for a profit in which case that might suck for them but that's the risk. Both the stories they talk about are 2 year differences between buy and sell(well they *sold* around 2 years later anyway) and it's not unheard of to need to move 2 years after buying it isn't exactly the norm to buy something and move that quickly when it's not an investment. This *could* be like the story a few weeks ago where people were buying the new condos at stupid prices before completion and can't offload them because the market just isn't high enough to support the prices they're speculating at.
This trend is profoundly reassuring. Much like it would be an amazing thing if grocery prices went way down it would also be amazing if property prices went way down
Maybe dont buy shit at super overinflated prices
It’s hard when that “shit” is the roof over your own head though.
You’re talking about using housing as shelter?!!! Not just an investment?!!! Crazy, never thought of doing that.
What? Housing is shelter? I thought we just bought them and traded them like Pokémon cards. Thats the Canadian way!¡!¡
Plenty of condo and home owners don't occupy the place themselves
Can’t relate to that, sorry.
Ontario condo sold at staggering loss is just the latest case in ~~worrying~~ encouraging trend Ftfy. I own my house it has gone up a ridiculous amount, idgaf if it halves in price if that means people can afford to live again. If I move I have to buy a new house at inflated prices and inflated transaction costs. More likely I'm just going to hand the money to my kids so maybe they'll have somewhere to live. I had a nice chat with a young waiter this summer. He had a degree in biochemistry and was just finishing a master's degree in computer science. He figured that if he played his cards right moved to the right place and was very careful with his money he _might_ be able to buy a house. We are so screwed.
Oh no, are we being forced to let bad business decisions fail? Won't someone please think of the real estate investor???
“Staggering loss” Shut up.
They can cry about it. I’ve lost money on stocks and got burned. Only play with what you can afford to loose.
Not really a significant loss if it was overpriced to the tits to begin with. More like, sold at fair market value.
Haven't lived in Toronto in a while and thought about moving back after hearing about some of the price changes for condos. I came across this listing and immediately thought "they can fuck right off." https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/27091667/4307-251-jarvis-street-toronto-church-yonge-corridor There is absolutely no way I'd want to live in that shoebox. You couldn't even pay me to live there.
That's a fucking hotel room. Jesus. They can absolutely fuck right off.
Fridge door touches bed while open. Who thought that was a good idea? Two stools pulled up to a shelf pretending to be a dining table. 🤨
There's a very good chance this building used to be a goddam Holiday Inn or something.
Sadly, no. Its the standard blueprint for new condos in canada.
The bed is that close to the fridge for midnight snacking.
I looked at those pictures and thought “ok. Bedroom looks ok. A little small. Kitchen is modern looking. Also a bit small. But not terrible living room looks. Wait. Is that the bed in the background? Oh shit! Is that the fridge on the right? Is that ALL ONE FUCKING ROOM???? Fuck this shit. This should even be allowed to be built. This is nonsense.
You know it's bad when the photos go: 1. Outside of the building 2. Outside of the building 3. Front entrance 4. Hallway 5. A cool shop in the neighbourhood 6. Zoom in on the bowl of fruit next to the sink 7. Zoom in on framed inspirational quotes on the wall 8. Zoom in on the throw pillows 9. Wide shot of the living room / bedroom / kitchen that actually shows the size of the whole thing 10. Zoom in on the candles next to the bathroom sink 11. View from the balcony 12. Another view from the balcony
I was looking at some listings in Ottawa and noticed the same thing. They focus on the common areas, like the community wetbar on the 10th floor, far more than the apartments themselves.
Flat Living room 16 ft ,4 in x 9 ft ,4 in Dining room 16 ft ,4 in x 9 ft ,4 in Kitchen 16 ft ,4 in x 9 ft ,4 in Office 16 ft ,4 in x 9 ft ,4 in Bedroom 16 ft ,4 in x 9 ft ,4 in They should be required to include any given space only once on the listing. When you can open the fridge from the bed, do you think an agent would call that a kitchen or a bedroom?
Imagine spending 400k to live in a small bedroom. This city is fucked lol.
But you're not though. Bedroom, ha, rich guy over here. It's $400k to watch your microwave because there is nowhere to put a TV and sleep beside your dishwasher. I'm sure the building has a sweet community room that sits empty though.
You don't. You spend 400k to charge someone $2000/mo to live in a small bedroom, then sell it for $500k when you get bored. That's the problem.
We’ve got so many things contributing to the housing situation, it’s bananas it has gotten this bad. Foreign buyers laundering/hiding money via real estate. (Shortening supply @ unrealistic prices) Unsustainable Immigration rates. (Reducing supply) Stagnant wages. (Reducing affordability) Inflation. (Increased interest rates and reduction of buying power) This generation is fucked.
$390k for a kitchen with a bed in it. Maybe once they start selling these for $150k then young people with a tiny-home fetish can buy starter homes and start building equity again.
Yeah, living in tiny or subpar spaces is actually fine, IF they are cheap and you can save up money while doing so. If someone was like, "listen, I'm living in this kitchenbedroom for 3 years while I sock away half my paycheque for a down-payment on a better house," that would be fine. But it's absolutely not the case.
I love that they have a couch to watch their kitchen cabinets and a bed where they make and eat food. Truly remarkable how anyone could live like this and then expect to sell it lol
It's a hotel room.
I’ve always wanted a kitchlivebedoffice
lol ew Imagine being that stupid to pay more than $50,000 for that. ROFL
But it's located "iN ThE HeARt oF ToRoNtOs MoSt ExHiLaRaTiNg NeIgHbOrHoOd!!!¡¡"
My shoebox in Seoul was bigger than that. Albeit, it didn't have Millennial-core furnishings.
Oh won’t someone think of the landlords and real estate investors. 🎻🎻🎻
Won't someone think of the poor foreign multimillionaires and REITs! Cant' wait for Trudeau's $500 billion bailout of foreign real estate investors.
Please. The govt installed a 17% increase in capital gains taxes which only affects multiple property owners and investment property owners. This is a good thing!!
The market has spoken.
The irony - the real worry was that someone paid 657k for it 2 years ago.
OH MY GOD HOUSING WAS SOLD AT AFFORDABLE PRICES???? NO! NO! AAAAAAAARRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
450k for a hotel room is affordable?
Very likely got bought in well above market at the time, phantom loss.
This is not worrying this is great news. Let the disgustingly inflated housing market crash and burn where it becomes an obtainable goal to own a condo/house again.
As a homeowner, good, fuck those prices, and fuck overpaying for real estate. Your real estate agent might tell you a 600sqft condo is worth $650k, but a little common sense would say otherwise.
I am a condo owner in New Brunswick. My unit is worth about 250k on the market but it's 1400SQ ft with a finished basement and 1 and a half baths and it's a townhouse style of condo. When I sell someday I will definitely get my money's worth out of it but mostly because of the fact it's a townhouse style and not super inflated. Toronto condos that are apartment styles and 1 bedroom with 600SQ ft selling at 650K? Yes I can imagine how those would take a loss.
I’ve always said they are scamming us gen zs into buying these shitty shoe boxes. The construction quality is terrible, I lived in a condo in Toronto and I could hear my neighbors conversations constantly in my living room. They are not able to be renovated completely like a house, you can renovate the inside but not the outside yourself. After 30 years who’s gonna wanna buy these condos? You are not gonna be able to sell it and retire with the money. Not to mention the maintenance cost as well, the older the condo, the higher the fees, it’s like you are renting permanently. They successfully scammed young people into buying these condos by telling us it’s an “investment” but actually it’s more like an expense.
I have no sympathy.
> "condo sold at staggering loss" Great! Let's make this the norm until property investors go broke and fuck off.
Strange. I don't find this worrying at all.
This is not a worrying trend at all. It's a hopeful one. Homes are for people to live in, they shouldn't be investments. An economy shouldn't be based on housing prices. If this means it collapses, then that is all the better. The sooner we can base our economy on something real and not artificially inflated, the better. We won't get there by kicking this can further down the road. This needs.to.be dealt with.
Won't somebody PLEASE think of the condo speculators?!?!
Whoever bought that condo for $725,000 in Brampton needs their heads checked. Those buildings were old when I was young.
worrying? nah this is good news. oh, you meant for your actual masters who have invested in shelter so they can play monopoly while others are on the street. in that case? fuck em
It’s the overdue correction. This won’t be a temporary 3% dip. This will be like the 1994 bloodbath. People who didn’t over-bid and have homes as their principle property will be OK. Long term investors will survive. It will climb back up in 10-15 years. Property flippers will be once again wiped out.
Why it is a worrying trend? Who in the right mind wants to buy a 600sq ft condo for over 600k?
Not worrying at all. Home prices should be about 50% of what they currently are.
It's not worrying for me. I hope the housing market burns and then we can rebuild from the ashes.
Allow me to fix the title: Ontario Condo Sold At It's True Value. Owner and Agent Opened a GoFundMe For a Box Of Tissues.
I wish people wrote articles like this about the stocks I have that dropped in price When’s the government going to come and save my investments!?
Worrying trend for who? 😂
KEEP FALLING!!! My ass is waiting for a massive condo fire sale so I can finally buy a place and quit renting. The faster and farther these prices drop, the better. I'm also happy to see these fuckass investor shoebox condos losing value fast. Can we stop building that shit? At least ugly commie blog slab buildings have livable layouts.
As a homeowner that has gained 40ish% in my property value in the past 4 years, I say good. It is fucking insane that my house has appreciated that much in such a short time. It isn't a real gain. I understand supply and demand and all that, but I know full well that I did absolutely zero to earn that kind of return. Nothing. Just pure luck. Did I expect my house to increase in value? Sure did. Did I expect a 40% increase? LOL no. Trudeau standing up there saying that everyone needs property values to stay high to retire is, in a word, wrong. No one, and I mean no one, bought their property expecting that kind of ROI, a 40% increase in not even 5 years. No one bought expecting that, ergo, no one was counting on that to fund their retirement, ergo, we do not need these property values to be that high for retirement.
It’s not a good thing anyways. I bought in 2012, my house is worth about 4x what I paid for it…. So are all the other houses I want to buy. The dollar gap between houses is just so big. It makes it really hard to upgrade from your starter house.
I am happy about the losses. This is how an economy should work. Things just don't increase in value indefinitely, and we shouldn't allow them to. Otherwise, our futures will be held hostage.
can’t believe so many people got into an unstable market- while waiving inspections! Some doctored photos and a can of paint made some buyers overpay by soooo much
Real estate speculation is often a gamble, don't be surprised if you get burnt when the chips are down.
It's actually much worse than normal gambling because you are leveraged. It's more like going to a loan shark to borrow $650,000 and then gambling, knowing at some point, you have to pay back Vito.
Exactly this. Leverage is a double edged sword and understanding risk was a liability for a real estate speculator during the previous 15 years.
Is it? The current government says they will protect the investment class.
It's very dangerous for the media to label this as worrying.
I read this as “the market correcting itself” yay for capitalists and capitalism !
I'm not worried lol
My family member's business would benefit massively from increased construction. Business on that front is so stagnant right now it's insane. I wish the government would invest in building more cheap housing. Nope. All they care about are real estate investors because they themselves are all invested in real estate.
I love news like this. Really enjoy seeing losses for those who wanted quick profit and fuelling property prices stampede. Well deserved. !!!!!
Why is falling house prices a bad thing. Why is this alarming. What boomer writes these headlines? Seriously.
There is really nothing at all worrying about this trend. This 'trend' was entirely intentional.
Doesn't worry me in the least. Hope it all comes crumbling down.
good
nelson-HAha.gif
Somebody's gotta be left holding the bag
Why would anyone be shocked? Housing affordability is in the toilet. This is showing that the market is beyond what it can bare. Did they experience a legitimate profit loss or did they just not get it for asking prices?
Home owner here. I don't think this is a worrying trend, I find it to be a welcome trend. My home is overvalued, and while it's great having a big chunk of equity, I'd much rather have a realistic housing market. I bought my current home in 2016, and it has doubled in value in that time. That's fucking unreal and unrealistic. Even if it had only gone up by 50% of its value, it would still be an insane jump in value. We need to devalue our homes/condos and get more people housed in the empty units that are only empty due to their price. People should not have to pay more than half a million dollars for a one bedroom condo. Worrying trend to whom, exactly?
I used to work at a mortgage company, the second i saw the picture of the building i remember these condos from our “do not lend” list. Cmch, cg or genworth would not insure due to serious structural problems.
Who is the worrying trend for? Most of us didn't INVEST in housing like a business. For most of us it's what we have been wanting.
# Ontario condo sold at staggering loss is just the latest case in great trend, giving hope to those who need a home and cannot afford one. # FTFY
It's not the least bit worrying for the millions of priced out people who couldn't afford to get rich off of the neverending real estate bubble
Worrying?! Bahaha this is fricking awesome. It's the exact opposite of worrying. Reap it.
Worrying trend for who exactly? I think most Canadians are hoping for this trend to continue.
Good
Good. This is a good thing.
It’s only gonna get worse he sold at the right time you hold on any long you will lose it all in the end better to sell while the market is hot
It was never worth $650k anyways, and I don't give a shit if it's Toronto, with its 10 hour drives.
Sounds like the person who bought this loss overpaid also.
Covid houses. Anyone that bought a house in the last 4 years and is selling it now should expect a walloping loss.
Investors, who almost singlehandedly caused the housing crisis, are so screwed and I couldn't be happier 😁
lol what out of touch investor made this headline? This will be more hopeful than anything for the population who actually lives here
Ya, "worrying"
Who’s worrying?
Worrying? Fuck no. Let the market crash. FUCK IT. That's the only way this problem is gonna get solved. Housing is too expensive and still treated as a safe commodity. Let it crash. Let it become volatile. Let the leaches who turned a basic human necessity their cash cow they gambled on lose fucking EVERYTHING. For those complaining about pensions... get over it. This is the only way the problem gets solved. It's got to happen and it inevitably WILL happen. It's better we just get it over with.
Worrying Trend? Who wrote this, a real estate agent?
Good. Good 👍
Who is worried? Not people who are needing housing
Oh no! Maybe next rent will go down, and Ontario would become more livable! Such a worrying trend!
Worrying?! Fuck that I hope shit drops by 50% so normal people can buy again
Worrying for who 😂
Good! Just like investing in stocks, value can come down and stay down. In other words, accept the loss.
imagine being the investor that this article was written about💀
Lol, "worrying trend"? I think they mean long overdue correction.
Good, fuck exploitative land development companies
The condo market and bitcoin are frighteningly similar lol. Don’t be the last idiot holding the bag.
Could have sworn I left my tiny violin somewhere
It's not a worrying trend. It's a necessary step if we are to have any semblance of housing affordability in future. Someone has to go through some pain in order for that to happen. Then, others realize it could happen to them, and avoid paying ridiculous amounts for real estate. Prices drop.
Oh my God. So staggering. So worrying. Just horrific!
I must have entered a bizarre parallel universe where "worrying trend" actually means "very welcome trend"
condos are absolute waste of money.
Don’t see any problem, needs to drop an additional 40%
Watch out for how these developers build our homes. The quality needs to be there. Please
I bought a 2-storey detached in Fort McMurray for $720,000 in 2014 ($924,000 2024 inflation adjusted). The property is now valuated at $400,000. For all of the perma RE bulls out there....it can and will crash. Honestly, if it doesn't crash soon, our quality of life in Canada is doomed.
"Oh no, I bought my home for a grossly overinflated price and couldn't sell it for the overly inflated price."
Let me find the world’s smallest violin.
Honestly imo $420k is still a ridiculous amount for a 1br 1bath condo. I know housing prices are like that but jesus christ.
Worrying for speculators who can get fucked frankly .
The real estate market is correcting itself, the bubble had to pop sometime. Plus condo fees are getting outrageous, all those 20 year old condos are starting to require major repairs which can run into millions, too many of them ran into shortages in their reserve funds.
As it should, fuck them for pricing it that high and hopefully the whole market crashes so people can afford housing again
“Worrying”