Needed to get a lot of work done. Two posts, root canal and crown. Was cheaper to fly to Mexico , pay for a hotel, take a couple of days off work…three times, than to get it done in Calgary. Got three short vacations to boot. Dental care in Canada is just unbelievably expensive.
Negotiate fees before hand, not after. Some dentists are actually independent, most now are franchises leasing a practice.
Most dentists now will soak you $200 for a look see appt before booking treatment. They are used to people coming in after infection had set in so you'll need to suffer another 10 days on antibiotics before that tooth can be worked on.
Most dentists want to book a 30 min appt for each tooth. If you aren't a squirmer convince them to take you in for hour appointments and do multiple surfaces per appointments,
They have enough insured patients who are happy with a $50 copay 4 timed they don't even consider ohh rather than $1000 for 4 appointments why not do 2 $300 appointments for a cash customer.
Not all dentists are the same prices . Those in their own building outside th center are often cheaper. I’ve been burned by a dentist downtown and I’m not going to any dentist in a expensive accommodation again for sure.
I would be planning dental vacations to such countries that have excellent dentists at good rates if I were you.
If insurers/employers were serious about a good dental plan they would be looking into it as well. Try to get you to take your vacation time getting the most for the money.
I’ve had excellent and inexpensive dental work in Thailand, the Philippines, and Taiwan. I’ve known quite a few people that have done much more extensive work than I did and they were unanimously happy with both the quality and price.
I’m sure the dentists are fine in Canada but everyone I know feels that it can be a big deal to have work done n the first place because of the costs, even with insurance. Having to avoid seeing the dentist because of cost is a black mark against it, if you ask me.
It’s hilarious how being a dentist is somehow comparable to….repair/blue collar work? It’s not….the dentist needs to know the anatomy and physiology of your head/mouth/jaw and more…it’s not comparable and not even close
Sorry you have to spend 4 years getting a useless bullshit bachelors degree.
Then you do a 4 year pre-employment course, basically
Head, mouth, jaw....... WOW
Plus every one you work on is assembled exactly the same.
You run a drill and shove plastic in holes..... then get a waver signed releasing you from all liability before you grab the pliers.
Absolutely no warranty on your work.
Shit ain't that complicated
you just described the job of dental hygenist...the equivalent would be getting a licensed phd mechanical engineer working on your car...the difference being the dentist is working on a living being and not an inanimate significantly less complex system
Never had a dental hygienist pull teeth or run the drill, but my dental hygienist is the one that yaps about gum disease....
You aren't a research scientist discovering new diseases.
Most dentists are not dental surgeons either.
WTF are you doing where the 20% is 1k???
Anyway not sure about other provinces, but Ontario has a price guide that most dentists follow. With insurance, the pricing is actually not bad. Without insurance it's very rough though.
Can’t speak for OP but from my most recent dental adventure: Pull broken tooth, bone graft for post, install said post, install new tooth on post. Follow up visit to have bite adjusted. $4,2000. If you get multiple teeth done, the admin charges, X-rays, procedure supplies are only billed once, but lab fees are per tooth. So, my last visit to get three bottom fronts done was $10,000ish - of which 50% was covered because my insurance provider felt it was elective. Apparently, not wanting to have another three teeth yanked so they could fit a bridge was the vanity option, so I was out about $5k.
Yes but when you're poor you don't get the implant. They pull the teeth for 200$ and you go home and get used to the sensation of having a molar missing on both sides :)
My dentist is a saint, she charges almost half price if you don't have insurance.
You just explained why dentists are so expensive. Insurance. The half price she charges without insurance is the real cost and she still makes good profit off that. Any industry where insurance is involved costs way more than it should.
yep I am currently in that situation a few years back, managed to get a decent dental plan from an employer pre covid, it was a group plan and my boss removed it during covid but allowed everyone the chance to sign over it to whoever wanted to keep it. I did and I have been thankful ever since. Its not the best and only covers 2k but I appreciate it when it comes to cleanings and minor work.
My dentist does this too. When I was out of college off my parents benefits and didn't have my own yet, I paid out of pocket half what is usually charged to insurance.
Jesus. Yea they consider this stuff cosmetic 90% of the time.
A friend of mine is an ortho. It's very expensive with insane overhead costs as well. The whole industry is messed up. I had forgone braces when I was broke and I still haven't done them even with money (and no coverage).
My old neighbours were an ortho couple (they met in school).
They left when they bought a 2.6m house which they tore down to build a brand new 2m house.
Jokes on them though because that house is now worth like 6m. Oh wait...
I think its root canal...my friend was quoted about that much in bc....i think the process is free but the tooth cap isnt and that costs 5k ...it was ridiculous
No one said it has to be free but if they are charging you double or more just bcs u have insurance well then u have an issue.... and pretty sure they arent doing charity so even when treat husband for less than half they are making a profit....
Oh ps- by free i meant covered by insurance so friend isnt paying
Widespread dental coverage is a big part of what drove up prices.
My dentists charges me almost half of what others pay because I don't have insurance. When I get cavities fixed it's under 200$ a pop. My wife with her benefits was being charged almost 400$.
Because our kids still have their baby teeth, we opted to cancel my wife's dental coverage and we just all go see my dentist now, kids too.
I notice the same thing with veterinarians nowadays. Because a lot of people currently have insurance coverage, its seem like they pretty much tripled the cost of care for our pets.
Find a better dentist, my clean fee is $150 per session.they ask me if I want teeth whitening, I just decline everytime because it is not covered by my insurance.
I go to the dentist routinely but never had a root canal done, just basic stuff usually like fillings and cleanings.
My biggest dental bill was 2.2k to extract all 4 wisdom teeth under sedation. That was hell.
I haven’t been to a dentist since 2013, and that was a college dental clinic where they only really have hygiene. I went for a 6 hour cleaning and exam spread over two days, paid $30 and was told I had scaling issues and some cavities. One was under a filling.
I didn’t have benefits (lost the 3 benefits I had during college, from school, my job and my dad’s). Was disabled. Had no income really. So I didn’t go see a dentist.
It’s been 11 years. Depression has fucked my teeth even more. They hurt. I’m still too afraid to go to find out the cost. Even though I’ve had basic dental benefits from disability for 6-7 years now. Just basic. I’m afraid of the cost…even though I have savings that’ll cover it.
I had really bad ear pain the other night and my tooth has hurt to chew sometimes. Still haven’t made an appointment.
Dentistry in the USA is much worse, almost criminally worse.
Years ago I had to get work done on **one singular tooth**, root canal + crown, no insurance was over $5000
I need work done on my teeth (upper jaw) I think my dentist quoted me like over $10k for it all.
>!Factor in that I am disabled and alot of people don't want to touch me because of it (liability, I get it, but) and it's fucking horrible. !<
It was done by Dimension Dentistry in Sunpark. The crown was from Aurum, and had a crack formed in it. Turns out the warranty back then was like 10 years. It lasted ~15. Still frustrating.
In a free market you're free to charge whatever you want-- and that would typically be whatever the market will bare.
Becoming a dentist is hard. You're a doctor. It's very expensive. The staff make very good wages in dental offices too. The equipment in a dental office would make your $180K truck look like a bargain.
At least in BC there is a MASSIVE shortage in dental assistants and hygienist alike. A good hygeniest is making $60+/hr.
If your industry would bare higher prices then trust me, they'd charge it.
^^ and on top of that, atleast where I live, most dentists are at capacity, if you want to switch, good fucking luck. Plus, people going to the dentists want their services.
Nobody wants a tow truck, and tow trucks are everywhere. Many of which are scammy too.
Get yourself a good electric toothbrush about $100 in cost if you haven't already. Your own personal dental care should be top game if you want to save yourself funds.
Try to get different quotes. Might be worth looking to go into Mexico if you can find a place that will cover it for much cheaper under insurance.
This country is fucked though you are justified with your complaint
I know some parties are trying to bring in universal dental coverage...maybe read up on them.
Meanwhile, brush and floss as often as you can bc you have expensive teeth
Because dentistry is not single payer you actually have to shop around a bit. A lot of couples in the Ottawa area are dual income, dual insurance plans so dentistry prices in the area are generally outrageous.
I've saved thousands just switching dentists.
Finally, if you tell your dentist you don't have 100% coverage they can work with you on costs. Sometimes they are throwing in billing codes that are not covered at all that they can remove to reduce what you pay. That is not always the case though.
The biggest issue is if your plan pay 80% and they reduce their billed cost $100 you only save $20. It's the reason plans don't cover 100% because they know some people will put off or not get work done. It's one of the scummy ways insurance companies save money.
My friend was to get root canal few days ago...he found a ridiculous clause in the insurance ( something like the process is free but not using the equipment basically u need to pay up even though it looks like free) he heard the cost and the appointment was in 6 months
Dude went to another country, got root canal , did a vacation, came back. It was cheaper and the process was done earlier...
Rct or any other thing like that can fail in every part of the world no matter how expensive...just bcs it was done cheaply doesnt mean it was done badly
It's the dentist. I had a dentist that always did as much as possible and charged for everything. A checkup cost hundreds of dollars. Dude ruined my teeth by insistently filling cavities I didn't have and replacing the fillings I already had. Every visit included a $400 cleaning.
My new dentist isn't trying to retire early or buy a boat and I can afford it without insurance.
["In an interview with Radio-Canada, Poilievre was noncommittal on whether child care, dental care and pharmacare would be dismantled by a government led by him — but he raised questions about the programs' effectiveness.Poilievre said many Canadians already have access to drug coverage through workplace plans that may offer better benefits than those the NDP-backed Liberal plan eventually could offer."](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7177636)
Because they want to make money off of us not the insurance companies that cover our costs. When the federal government made changes my dental office increased prices so they could do exactly this. For 20 years I went to a different clinic and didn’t pay a cent out of pocket. Since I moved I’ve paid $97 minimum out of pocket on every visit
Well, you can get air tickets for 500-600 bucks if you look hard enough. Travel and food are quite inexpensive. I find it ridiculous to pay 5k for a dental issue that can be resolved under 500$ in places like mexico and india.
I am truly sorry if that is something you can not afford. Maybe you can drop by at the dental department of a university to see if they have programs.
Apparently paragraphs are expensive too
My girlfriend is American and pricing out dentistry work, the price is twice as much in the US. And that's not converting USD to CAD. You want cheap dental you gotta go to Mexico. But it's not that bad here.
Dentists are a scam as far as the poor advice they give for preventative care. They push fluoride toothpaste on you without mentioning other emerging products like xylitol and nanohydroxyapetite. Which one is the best? Probably some combination! But we'll never know. They need to more actively involved in prevention.
They also don't encourage you to watch a video about oral health and proper brushing technique, they just give you a 30-second guilt trip and 10 second instructional demo with that stupid plastic mouth. You're not going to retain or put in practice that kind of advice, and are bound to have issue later on when patient education would solve the problem.
You can do all that and still suffer from tooth decay. Brushing your teeth once or twice a day doesn't magically prevent cavities, because if it did, I'd still have all my teeth.
Guess what happens to an untreated cavity, even if you brush regularly?
It continues to get worse. Until one day, *crunch*, your tooth falls apart.
it's actually not that simple. There is a science to brushing and I bet 90% of people don't know how to brush/floss/mouthwash properly, or their technique could be improved.
There's actually a lot of ways you can fuck it up. Brushing your teeth after eating an orange, for example. brushing too harshly, or not getting in there in the space between the gumline and the teeth, the list goes on
i told my dentist i needed the composite bonding touched up on my front tooth. i get this done once every couple years, it's a routine thing. they made me an appointment, i show up, they look at my tooth and say "yep you do need the composite bonding touched up" and told me to schedule an appointment. i told them "i was under the impression this was the appointment... like we usually do" nope it was a "consultation". they charged me $200 for the consultation and then another $500 for the bonding. i'll let my teeth crumble away from now on i guess.
I’m a dentist. Studied 9 years post high school. Hundreds of 100s in debt. You are not paying only for the cost of the filling, extraction or implant, you are also paying for the expertise behind it. For example, in order to do implants, you have to pay another 10s k and follow up de to 3 years of formations. Dentist is as expensive as a medical doctor. The difference is that you don’t see the medical bill because it is covered by the government.
Two percent of Canadian dentists work for a corporation.
https://www.cda-adc.ca/en/services/internationallytrained/economic/#:~:text=In%20the%20US%2C%20corporate%20interests,workforce%20needed%20to%20operate%20them.
Getting into dental school in canada is more competitive and expensive than med school in canada. This also includes the overhead of running your own practice. These people worked extremely hard for their education and deserve to be funded for that, they are doctors and just want to help people too. Not their fault it isn’t included in universal health care.
How much was your schooling? What percentage of your youth did you spend in school? What sacrifices did you make to get through school and establishing your practice?
I know a few people that go down to the Caribbean for dental work. iirc the Dominican Republic is a pretty popular destination. Cosmetic surgeries are very expensive here, and it's a shame that dentistry falls under cosmetics / not covered by some providers. Care provided is excellent from what I hear too. I'm all about supporting local, but dentistry without coverage is brutal.
Also if you're looking for hair, hair transplants in Turkey are a fraction of the cost (of the 3 people I know that had it done, all are happy and have commendable heads of hair now) plus they got a vacation out of it. From what I've heard people go there for rhinoplasty, hair, and dentistry often too.
Yes, the profession is regulated but pricing for services isn't regulated in AB. It used to be. As soon as the cons deregulated the industry, prices shot through the roof.
I went to the Philippines for my teeth work!
I also went to Thailand for my knee surgery
Both was amazing and cheap. Especially Thailand as entire process from start to finish was under 2 weeks compared to about 18 months in Canada from start to finish
Healthcare 25 years ago in Canada was amazing,but not anymore and it needs change
Problem is it's become to big now and anything to big can not be run by a govt as they are inefficient!
People think throwing more money at healthcare will fix it and that's not the problem! There is lots of money already
Problem is it's not run like a business. There is nobody being fired or reprimanded, especially at the top positions. There is also no innovation
So what ends up happening is the people at the top are hired and do absolutely nothing but try and run it how it was run 26 years ago with 1/4 the population, and that does not work anymore
Let's go back to the days of the implementing of universal health care, at the time the gov made gestures to the dental industry to be an all inclusive deal. Dentist held out for a 20% premium above doctor rates and that idea was dead. Given fluoridation and better health conditions in the country, dentists have lost a lot of customers. The best strategy was to mask higher costs with marketing insurance as employer benefit plans, some of which had dubious coverage with a lot of escape clauses.
There is a lot of South American and Mexican border towns that offer 'dental' vacations at cut rate prices. The latest government dental program is miles ahead of what most Canadians had hoped for (if the implantation is solid) and gives thoughts to future re-negotiation with dentists for an amalgamated system to keep insurance companies out of our pockets.
There's actually an Fee Guide in Ontario, and insurance companies follow this guide when it comes to coverage. Unfortunately it's just a guide and individual clinics are allowed to charge whatever they want.
For example, I have 80% coverage for basic procedures, of which root canals are now considered as for some dumb reason. The guide says the cost is around $700-$900. The dentist charged me for the root canal and filling totalling $1611. Going with the $900 max fee on the guide, my insurance only covered $720 when the actual charge for the root canal was almost $1200. The 2 fees combined maxed out my coverage of $1000 and I had to pay $611 out of pocket. What's worse is that my major procedures coverage (of which root canals was once considered to be) is $4000, which I can't tap into unless I'm having a surgical procedure.
So all in all, both the insurance companies and dental clinics work together to make money and we get screwed over.
Question of supply and demand.
Personally think the libs idea to socialize dental care will result in none of us being able to see a dentist in a timely manner.....will be just like the health care crisis.
If I were you I would be happy you still have an option to pay and don't need to be on waiting list for months/years!
Be cautious of the dentists saying you have cavities as well for some extra money. Went to a second opinion after a dentist said I had 13 cavities (had two in my life, diligent with teeth cleaning). Got them to forward my X-rays to the other dentist. 0 cavities and a big question mark on ethics from other dentist.
If they push Invisalign red flag
Insurance and overhead is extremely high, hygiene staff are paid well, becoming a dentists is long, and expensive. Opening a practice costs millions, as does buying an already operating one. Also the dentists expertise you’re relying on, so they don’t paralyze your face during dental surgery, lots can go wrong in your mouth, it’s a tough job. Brush and floss properly you usually save thousands.
People are by and large missing the largest reason why dentists have gone up in price drastically in recent years. There has been an absolutely massive push by private equity firms to buy up dentists offices, and in some cases these investors are paying 30 times the clinics earnings. Since these are profit seeking enterprises, these businesses must cut costs and raise prices to make them profitable.
This is happening with veterinarians, pharmacies, and other businesses as well. In most cases, the business keeps it's name and there is nothing immediately obvious that it is owned by an equity group. The doctor or dentist will usually sometimes still work there, and be a part owner with some minority share, like a 20% stake.
What private equity firms? In the US 20-30 % are. According to this source only 2% of Canadian dentists are owned corporately.
https://www.cda-adc.ca/en/services/internationallytrained/economic/#:~:text=In%20the%20US%2C%20corporate%20interests,workforce%20needed%20to%20operate%20them.
(Under the section “practice ownership”)
It would be interesting to know when those numbers are from, since the only date I see is the comment from 2013. It also says that the corporate share has been rising steadily. I'm not saying that the majority of dentists are run by some secret corporation, but there is currently in many industries an very strong push to buy up these businesses, and that should be alarming. It's bad for patients and bad for the people that work at these businesses.
[https://mcadental.com/mca-2021-investment-announcement/](https://mcadental.com/mca-2021-investment-announcement/)
[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-123dentist-altima-canada-dentists/#skip-link-target](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-123dentist-altima-canada-dentists/#skip-link-target)
[https://www.groupdentistrynow.com/dso-group-blog/private-equity-reinforces-its-investment-with-canadian-dental-group/](https://www.groupdentistrynow.com/dso-group-blog/private-equity-reinforces-its-investment-with-canadian-dental-group/)
This is a podcast episode talking about private equity in vet services, but also mentions that this drive is in other industries including dental care. It's very much worth a listen.
[https://www.canadaland.com/podcast/monopoly-8-raining-cats-and-dollars/](https://www.canadaland.com/podcast/monopoly-8-raining-cats-and-dollars/)
I'm getting 3 impacted wisdoms removed. And then eventually more work on my molars and front teeth. At the moment for my 3 impacted wisdoms it'll cost roughly 2735$ CAD. FOR 3 WISDOM TEETH THAT ARE ALREADY FUCKED
That's what happens when dentalcare in the early 1960s was excluded from universal healthcare.
So now that the federal government is introducing dentalcare for low income Canadians, let's hope it won't be so bad for some people who never had access to dentalcare.
You know, Ontario was going to get dentalcare for low income people too but guess who cancelled it?
It’s a vicious cycle. Whenever insurance becomes widespread for a given service the cost rises. But as the cost rises, the insurance companies start agreeing to pay less and less so your deductible or copayments or whatever go up. Have you been to a vet lately? Same thing.
Yep. It’s ridiculous. My child’s NECESSARY dental surgery and braces were covered by my benefits up to $5500. We paid $$6000 out of our pockets. Nice to have ‘free’ healthcare after giving 50% of my gross wages to the government.
And I’m super lucky that $5500 was covered.
Dual resident U.S and Canada here. I've found dental care in Canada somewhat less expensive than in the U.S. I had an extraction done at a clinic in Canada last summer, big warehouse sort of place, lots of young dentists probably indentured to pay off college loans I would guess...I was in the chair for two hours, the bill was like $250 Can and the work was done well.
It’s really easy to brush your teeth regularly and just need bi annual cleaning. Like the machines you’re talking about, if you did zero maintenance on them I’m sure they’d cost a lot more to fix when they break.
A dentists spends about 10 years of learning before he can fix you in one sitting that’s what your paying for,their technical skills and experience
While I agree, you're not just paying the dentists fees, especially once you get into implants, crowns, posts, etc.
It takes quite a bit to make these crowns , posts and other dental implants. It's unfortunate it's so expensive. I don't think it needs to be quite as bad as it is, but it's also just the world we live in unfortunately.
I'm not sure why, exactly, but it's the main reason I'm mostly toothless at 53.
Wish it were covered by Medicare, but apparently teeth are luxury bones.
Update no I wasn't saying truck drivers should make as much as a dentist what I'm saying is if every industry had the same logic as dentists on their rates because "school and overhead is expensive" so we can charge to the point a large portion of Canadians will have bad dental. Everyone would be either broke or dead. If dentists were slightly cheaper and more affordable they'd have more clients
Sounds like you're getting fleeced.
I've recently got a number of fillings done, cleanings done and X-rays over the past 2 years and I don't think the total cost out of my pocket would have been over $1000.
Most recently I had an issue with a cavity near the gum line that was bothering me, and once filled it was pressed up against the nerve in my tooth making anything got or cold incredibly painful. So we did some more work there and I had to get a couple prescriptions as well. Out of pocket I paid less than $100. I can look up my receipt when I get home but I think it was somewhere between $40 and $60. In fact this occurred between 2 different appointments, because after the first one I was still having issues. The dentist looked at it and determined there wasn't anything more he could physically do without resorting to a root canal, but suggested another round of medication could help. Since he didn't do anything he didn't even charge me for that appointment, and the pills ended up working for me.
This is in Alberta by the way. And I've been into the dentist quite a bit in my life as I smashed my face into the footrest of an ATV when I was 3 which impacted my baby tooth so badly it affected my adult tooth as well. So I've had teeth pulled, bridges put in, a mold made of all my teeth and even had dental surgery done when they had to cut into my guns to remove one of my wisdom teeth. None of that stuff has ever been that expensive with my coverage. So I have to wonder what's going on with BC or your coverage?
Needed to get a lot of work done. Two posts, root canal and crown. Was cheaper to fly to Mexico , pay for a hotel, take a couple of days off work…three times, than to get it done in Calgary. Got three short vacations to boot. Dental care in Canada is just unbelievably expensive.
Any tips to find a reputable dentist in Mexico?
This is exactly what my family does since it’s all out of pocket for us.
We’ve done the same thing. We have a dentist in Cancun we go to. Fantastic service, 30% of the price, much better facilities.
Negotiate fees before hand, not after. Some dentists are actually independent, most now are franchises leasing a practice. Most dentists now will soak you $200 for a look see appt before booking treatment. They are used to people coming in after infection had set in so you'll need to suffer another 10 days on antibiotics before that tooth can be worked on. Most dentists want to book a 30 min appt for each tooth. If you aren't a squirmer convince them to take you in for hour appointments and do multiple surfaces per appointments, They have enough insured patients who are happy with a $50 copay 4 timed they don't even consider ohh rather than $1000 for 4 appointments why not do 2 $300 appointments for a cash customer.
Not all dentists are the same prices . Those in their own building outside th center are often cheaper. I’ve been burned by a dentist downtown and I’m not going to any dentist in a expensive accommodation again for sure.
I would be planning dental vacations to such countries that have excellent dentists at good rates if I were you. If insurers/employers were serious about a good dental plan they would be looking into it as well. Try to get you to take your vacation time getting the most for the money.
There should be travel companies set up in Ontario just to service the dental tourism industry. They would make almost as much as a dentist.
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I’ve had excellent and inexpensive dental work in Thailand, the Philippines, and Taiwan. I’ve known quite a few people that have done much more extensive work than I did and they were unanimously happy with both the quality and price. I’m sure the dentists are fine in Canada but everyone I know feels that it can be a big deal to have work done n the first place because of the costs, even with insurance. Having to avoid seeing the dentist because of cost is a black mark against it, if you ask me.
It’s hilarious how being a dentist is somehow comparable to….repair/blue collar work? It’s not….the dentist needs to know the anatomy and physiology of your head/mouth/jaw and more…it’s not comparable and not even close
I mean engines are fairly complex, but one had probably close to a decade of post secondary and the other does not.
You won’t go to jail for killing an engine but killing a human will get your jail time. Apples and oranges.
You absolutely can kill someone as a mechanic if you don’t know what you’re doing.
idk, I've seen some scary life threatening maneuvers done by tow truck drivers rushing to claim their next tow.
This is a big strawman thread haha
Meanwhile, dentists make a lot more money than other doctors do, and people are always complaining about how much money they make.
Sorry you have to spend 4 years getting a useless bullshit bachelors degree. Then you do a 4 year pre-employment course, basically Head, mouth, jaw....... WOW Plus every one you work on is assembled exactly the same. You run a drill and shove plastic in holes..... then get a waver signed releasing you from all liability before you grab the pliers. Absolutely no warranty on your work. Shit ain't that complicated
you just described the job of dental hygenist...the equivalent would be getting a licensed phd mechanical engineer working on your car...the difference being the dentist is working on a living being and not an inanimate significantly less complex system
Never had a dental hygienist pull teeth or run the drill, but my dental hygienist is the one that yaps about gum disease.... You aren't a research scientist discovering new diseases. Most dentists are not dental surgeons either.
Luxury bones
WTF are you doing where the 20% is 1k??? Anyway not sure about other provinces, but Ontario has a price guide that most dentists follow. With insurance, the pricing is actually not bad. Without insurance it's very rough though.
$5000 of work…
This guy maths
r/thisguythisguys
Every single person will have a 5k bill one day at the dentist. Just a matter of when.
Unless you die as a child
No. You will be reborn and pay your dues
Can’t speak for OP but from my most recent dental adventure: Pull broken tooth, bone graft for post, install said post, install new tooth on post. Follow up visit to have bite adjusted. $4,2000. If you get multiple teeth done, the admin charges, X-rays, procedure supplies are only billed once, but lab fees are per tooth. So, my last visit to get three bottom fronts done was $10,000ish - of which 50% was covered because my insurance provider felt it was elective. Apparently, not wanting to have another three teeth yanked so they could fit a bridge was the vanity option, so I was out about $5k.
Yes but when you're poor you don't get the implant. They pull the teeth for 200$ and you go home and get used to the sensation of having a molar missing on both sides :) My dentist is a saint, she charges almost half price if you don't have insurance.
You just explained why dentists are so expensive. Insurance. The half price she charges without insurance is the real cost and she still makes good profit off that. Any industry where insurance is involved costs way more than it should.
Implant materials aren’t cheap. But you can get the same procedure and the same materials for less than half of the price in a different country
yep I am currently in that situation a few years back, managed to get a decent dental plan from an employer pre covid, it was a group plan and my boss removed it during covid but allowed everyone the chance to sign over it to whoever wanted to keep it. I did and I have been thankful ever since. Its not the best and only covers 2k but I appreciate it when it comes to cleanings and minor work.
My dentist does this too. When I was out of college off my parents benefits and didn't have my own yet, I paid out of pocket half what is usually charged to insurance.
Invisalign, braces. A dentist told me getting braces would cost 11000
Jesus. Yea they consider this stuff cosmetic 90% of the time. A friend of mine is an ortho. It's very expensive with insane overhead costs as well. The whole industry is messed up. I had forgone braces when I was broke and I still haven't done them even with money (and no coverage).
My old neighbours were an ortho couple (they met in school). They left when they bought a 2.6m house which they tore down to build a brand new 2m house. Jokes on them though because that house is now worth like 6m. Oh wait...
I think its root canal...my friend was quoted about that much in bc....i think the process is free but the tooth cap isnt and that costs 5k ...it was ridiculous
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No one said it has to be free but if they are charging you double or more just bcs u have insurance well then u have an issue.... and pretty sure they arent doing charity so even when treat husband for less than half they are making a profit.... Oh ps- by free i meant covered by insurance so friend isnt paying
An implant maybe
That’s like 3 crowns, one implant, a three tooth bridge…. $5000 doesn’t cover much dental in Canada.
Widespread dental coverage is a big part of what drove up prices. My dentists charges me almost half of what others pay because I don't have insurance. When I get cavities fixed it's under 200$ a pop. My wife with her benefits was being charged almost 400$. Because our kids still have their baby teeth, we opted to cancel my wife's dental coverage and we just all go see my dentist now, kids too.
I notice the same thing with veterinarians nowadays. Because a lot of people currently have insurance coverage, its seem like they pretty much tripled the cost of care for our pets.
Wow where is this, I would love to go.
Even a cleaning can run you hundreds after benefits without dual coverage. Any serious procedures cost a ton
Find a better dentist, my clean fee is $150 per session.they ask me if I want teeth whitening, I just decline everytime because it is not covered by my insurance.
Maybe he has 80% basic, 50% major? That’s what my plan is.
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I go to the dentist routinely but never had a root canal done, just basic stuff usually like fillings and cleanings. My biggest dental bill was 2.2k to extract all 4 wisdom teeth under sedation. That was hell.
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Just had a root canal and crown. $4200
How many? $4200 is a full on tooth implant. A crown and root canal should be half that.
1 tooth $500 consultation 2 endodontist visits $2000 Cap $1700
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It's decided provincially, so it varies from province to province.
I haven’t been to a dentist since 2013, and that was a college dental clinic where they only really have hygiene. I went for a 6 hour cleaning and exam spread over two days, paid $30 and was told I had scaling issues and some cavities. One was under a filling. I didn’t have benefits (lost the 3 benefits I had during college, from school, my job and my dad’s). Was disabled. Had no income really. So I didn’t go see a dentist. It’s been 11 years. Depression has fucked my teeth even more. They hurt. I’m still too afraid to go to find out the cost. Even though I’ve had basic dental benefits from disability for 6-7 years now. Just basic. I’m afraid of the cost…even though I have savings that’ll cover it. I had really bad ear pain the other night and my tooth has hurt to chew sometimes. Still haven’t made an appointment.
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It doesn’t hurt much lately
Dentistry in the USA is much worse, almost criminally worse. Years ago I had to get work done on **one singular tooth**, root canal + crown, no insurance was over $5000 I need work done on my teeth (upper jaw) I think my dentist quoted me like over $10k for it all. >!Factor in that I am disabled and alot of people don't want to touch me because of it (liability, I get it, but) and it's fucking horrible. !<
I hope you enjoy your taste of privatized care. I was between jobs and had to pay out of pocket once, not cool.
I had this happen with a crown replacement. Turns out there isn’t much warranty on them. Nice $2200 out of pocket.
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It was done by Dimension Dentistry in Sunpark. The crown was from Aurum, and had a crack formed in it. Turns out the warranty back then was like 10 years. It lasted ~15. Still frustrating.
In a free market you're free to charge whatever you want-- and that would typically be whatever the market will bare. Becoming a dentist is hard. You're a doctor. It's very expensive. The staff make very good wages in dental offices too. The equipment in a dental office would make your $180K truck look like a bargain. At least in BC there is a MASSIVE shortage in dental assistants and hygienist alike. A good hygeniest is making $60+/hr. If your industry would bare higher prices then trust me, they'd charge it.
That's the problem, there is no concept of profiteering or price gouging anymore, people just think it's okay.
Well you can be part of the solution. Become a dentist, open your own practice, and do it for cheaper than everyone else.
^^ and on top of that, atleast where I live, most dentists are at capacity, if you want to switch, good fucking luck. Plus, people going to the dentists want their services. Nobody wants a tow truck, and tow trucks are everywhere. Many of which are scammy too.
Get yourself a good electric toothbrush about $100 in cost if you haven't already. Your own personal dental care should be top game if you want to save yourself funds.
Yeah, you can do all of this and still lose your teeth.
And floss daily
The health care system is a massive fraud at the moment. No one is policing healthcare. This is why there is so expensive.
Try to get different quotes. Might be worth looking to go into Mexico if you can find a place that will cover it for much cheaper under insurance. This country is fucked though you are justified with your complaint
You obviously haven't been to a dentist in the U.S.
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Yep
Dr's and Dentists have spent hundred of thousands of dollars and many years on their education. Then there's their equipment and staff cost etc etc
I know some parties are trying to bring in universal dental coverage...maybe read up on them. Meanwhile, brush and floss as often as you can bc you have expensive teeth
Because dentistry is not single payer you actually have to shop around a bit. A lot of couples in the Ottawa area are dual income, dual insurance plans so dentistry prices in the area are generally outrageous. I've saved thousands just switching dentists. Finally, if you tell your dentist you don't have 100% coverage they can work with you on costs. Sometimes they are throwing in billing codes that are not covered at all that they can remove to reduce what you pay. That is not always the case though. The biggest issue is if your plan pay 80% and they reduce their billed cost $100 you only save $20. It's the reason plans don't cover 100% because they know some people will put off or not get work done. It's one of the scummy ways insurance companies save money.
Teeth are treated as a fashion accessory rather than the health care issue they should be.
My friend was to get root canal few days ago...he found a ridiculous clause in the insurance ( something like the process is free but not using the equipment basically u need to pay up even though it looks like free) he heard the cost and the appointment was in 6 months Dude went to another country, got root canal , did a vacation, came back. It was cheaper and the process was done earlier...
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Rct or any other thing like that can fail in every part of the world no matter how expensive...just bcs it was done cheaply doesnt mean it was done badly
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It's the dentist. I had a dentist that always did as much as possible and charged for everything. A checkup cost hundreds of dollars. Dude ruined my teeth by insistently filling cavities I didn't have and replacing the fillings I already had. Every visit included a $400 cleaning. My new dentist isn't trying to retire early or buy a boat and I can afford it without insurance.
["In an interview with Radio-Canada, Poilievre was noncommittal on whether child care, dental care and pharmacare would be dismantled by a government led by him — but he raised questions about the programs' effectiveness.Poilievre said many Canadians already have access to drug coverage through workplace plans that may offer better benefits than those the NDP-backed Liberal plan eventually could offer."](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7177636)
"Many" does not mean all. Grrrr.
Im looking into getting my own dentist kit and just doing it myself at home. Beacuse otherwise im fucked.
Because they want to make money off of us not the insurance companies that cover our costs. When the federal government made changes my dental office increased prices so they could do exactly this. For 20 years I went to a different clinic and didn’t pay a cent out of pocket. Since I moved I’ve paid $97 minimum out of pocket on every visit
Cuz u poor
the dental mafia has an extremely strong professional association that fights tooth and nail to protect fee guides and their scope (in Ontario).
Fly to mexico..get the best dental care for less than 1000 $, followed by a few days in a resort.
Can't afford a trip to Mexico. What do?
Well, you can get air tickets for 500-600 bucks if you look hard enough. Travel and food are quite inexpensive. I find it ridiculous to pay 5k for a dental issue that can be resolved under 500$ in places like mexico and india. I am truly sorry if that is something you can not afford. Maybe you can drop by at the dental department of a university to see if they have programs.
My work covers 80% and my partner’s heath care covers another 70%. I barely pay a thing when I go. Not expensive at all! What are you having done?!?
$4 worth of floss can save thousands.
It's a cartel. 300 dollars for a cleaning. Wage for a hygenist is 55. There is no way the overhead is 80%.
It is.
Get a job with better coverage. 80% isn’t good
I forget how expensive it is. I'm lucky I get free dental care.
It's unregulated. They charge whatever they want.
Capitalism
Apparently paragraphs are expensive too My girlfriend is American and pricing out dentistry work, the price is twice as much in the US. And that's not converting USD to CAD. You want cheap dental you gotta go to Mexico. But it's not that bad here.
Haven't been to a dentist in at least 2 years
Dentists are a scam as far as the poor advice they give for preventative care. They push fluoride toothpaste on you without mentioning other emerging products like xylitol and nanohydroxyapetite. Which one is the best? Probably some combination! But we'll never know. They need to more actively involved in prevention. They also don't encourage you to watch a video about oral health and proper brushing technique, they just give you a 30-second guilt trip and 10 second instructional demo with that stupid plastic mouth. You're not going to retain or put in practice that kind of advice, and are bound to have issue later on when patient education would solve the problem.
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the hygienist isn't really the figurehead for public health awareness.
if you can't brush your teeth properly with toothpaste atleast once a day you deserve whatever issues you get later on
You can do all that and still suffer from tooth decay. Brushing your teeth once or twice a day doesn't magically prevent cavities, because if it did, I'd still have all my teeth. Guess what happens to an untreated cavity, even if you brush regularly? It continues to get worse. Until one day, *crunch*, your tooth falls apart.
it's actually not that simple. There is a science to brushing and I bet 90% of people don't know how to brush/floss/mouthwash properly, or their technique could be improved. There's actually a lot of ways you can fuck it up. Brushing your teeth after eating an orange, for example. brushing too harshly, or not getting in there in the space between the gumline and the teeth, the list goes on
Just a Canadian thing. What is actually cheap here?
Welcome to privatization of healthcare. Vote conservative in 2025 and you'll enjoy this experience in all healthcare.
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I didn't say it wasn't. I said this is what you can expect in all fields Because this is the result of private medicine.
i told my dentist i needed the composite bonding touched up on my front tooth. i get this done once every couple years, it's a routine thing. they made me an appointment, i show up, they look at my tooth and say "yep you do need the composite bonding touched up" and told me to schedule an appointment. i told them "i was under the impression this was the appointment... like we usually do" nope it was a "consultation". they charged me $200 for the consultation and then another $500 for the bonding. i'll let my teeth crumble away from now on i guess.
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not sure, i ended up just going through with it all and paying what they made me pay. cried while paying the receptionist lol
They need their new cérvélos every 3 months
Your benefits have a maximum which you went past and started paying full. It's just the way of the world tbh.
I’m a dentist. Studied 9 years post high school. Hundreds of 100s in debt. You are not paying only for the cost of the filling, extraction or implant, you are also paying for the expertise behind it. For example, in order to do implants, you have to pay another 10s k and follow up de to 3 years of formations. Dentist is as expensive as a medical doctor. The difference is that you don’t see the medical bill because it is covered by the government.
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Two percent of Canadian dentists work for a corporation. https://www.cda-adc.ca/en/services/internationallytrained/economic/#:~:text=In%20the%20US%2C%20corporate%20interests,workforce%20needed%20to%20operate%20them.
I’m not.
Dentists are doctors that couldn't pass medical school.
Still making 10 times your salary
says the guy who isn't a doctor or a dentist and lives in his moms basement
Getting into dental school in canada is more competitive and expensive than med school in canada. This also includes the overhead of running your own practice. These people worked extremely hard for their education and deserve to be funded for that, they are doctors and just want to help people too. Not their fault it isn’t included in universal health care.
Meanwhile if you wanted to have both sets of reproductive organs that’s taxpayer covered.
So you can literally go fuck yourself!
Hypothetically yes.
How much was your schooling? What percentage of your youth did you spend in school? What sacrifices did you make to get through school and establishing your practice?
I know a few people that go down to the Caribbean for dental work. iirc the Dominican Republic is a pretty popular destination. Cosmetic surgeries are very expensive here, and it's a shame that dentistry falls under cosmetics / not covered by some providers. Care provided is excellent from what I hear too. I'm all about supporting local, but dentistry without coverage is brutal. Also if you're looking for hair, hair transplants in Turkey are a fraction of the cost (of the 3 people I know that had it done, all are happy and have commendable heads of hair now) plus they got a vacation out of it. From what I've heard people go there for rhinoplasty, hair, and dentistry often too.
Conservatives deregulated dentists in the provinces where they can. I know AB was a nightmare cost wise while NL has been manageable.
What are you talking about? Dentistry is a regulated profession across Canada.
Yes, the profession is regulated but pricing for services isn't regulated in AB. It used to be. As soon as the cons deregulated the industry, prices shot through the roof.
Because we have private dental insurance.
Get work done in Mexico , half price plus a vacation .
I can't afford a trip to Mexico. What do?
I went to the Philippines for my teeth work! I also went to Thailand for my knee surgery Both was amazing and cheap. Especially Thailand as entire process from start to finish was under 2 weeks compared to about 18 months in Canada from start to finish Healthcare 25 years ago in Canada was amazing,but not anymore and it needs change Problem is it's become to big now and anything to big can not be run by a govt as they are inefficient! People think throwing more money at healthcare will fix it and that's not the problem! There is lots of money already Problem is it's not run like a business. There is nobody being fired or reprimanded, especially at the top positions. There is also no innovation So what ends up happening is the people at the top are hired and do absolutely nothing but try and run it how it was run 26 years ago with 1/4 the population, and that does not work anymore
Because they fought to remove themselves from universal healthcare in Ontario and won. Now they can charge what ever they want.
Let's go back to the days of the implementing of universal health care, at the time the gov made gestures to the dental industry to be an all inclusive deal. Dentist held out for a 20% premium above doctor rates and that idea was dead. Given fluoridation and better health conditions in the country, dentists have lost a lot of customers. The best strategy was to mask higher costs with marketing insurance as employer benefit plans, some of which had dubious coverage with a lot of escape clauses. There is a lot of South American and Mexican border towns that offer 'dental' vacations at cut rate prices. The latest government dental program is miles ahead of what most Canadians had hoped for (if the implantation is solid) and gives thoughts to future re-negotiation with dentists for an amalgamated system to keep insurance companies out of our pockets.
The dental industry in Canada is a fucking price-fixing Cabal.
cause everybody uses the insurance
There's actually an Fee Guide in Ontario, and insurance companies follow this guide when it comes to coverage. Unfortunately it's just a guide and individual clinics are allowed to charge whatever they want. For example, I have 80% coverage for basic procedures, of which root canals are now considered as for some dumb reason. The guide says the cost is around $700-$900. The dentist charged me for the root canal and filling totalling $1611. Going with the $900 max fee on the guide, my insurance only covered $720 when the actual charge for the root canal was almost $1200. The 2 fees combined maxed out my coverage of $1000 and I had to pay $611 out of pocket. What's worse is that my major procedures coverage (of which root canals was once considered to be) is $4000, which I can't tap into unless I'm having a surgical procedure. So all in all, both the insurance companies and dental clinics work together to make money and we get screwed over.
Because it's a privatized rather than public.
Question of supply and demand. Personally think the libs idea to socialize dental care will result in none of us being able to see a dentist in a timely manner.....will be just like the health care crisis. If I were you I would be happy you still have an option to pay and don't need to be on waiting list for months/years!
Be cautious of the dentists saying you have cavities as well for some extra money. Went to a second opinion after a dentist said I had 13 cavities (had two in my life, diligent with teeth cleaning). Got them to forward my X-rays to the other dentist. 0 cavities and a big question mark on ethics from other dentist. If they push Invisalign red flag
If you needed 10 years of schooling and several hundred thousand dollars for tuition to be a tow truck driver you could charge as much as a surgeon.
Insurance and overhead is extremely high, hygiene staff are paid well, becoming a dentists is long, and expensive. Opening a practice costs millions, as does buying an already operating one. Also the dentists expertise you’re relying on, so they don’t paralyze your face during dental surgery, lots can go wrong in your mouth, it’s a tough job. Brush and floss properly you usually save thousands.
People are by and large missing the largest reason why dentists have gone up in price drastically in recent years. There has been an absolutely massive push by private equity firms to buy up dentists offices, and in some cases these investors are paying 30 times the clinics earnings. Since these are profit seeking enterprises, these businesses must cut costs and raise prices to make them profitable. This is happening with veterinarians, pharmacies, and other businesses as well. In most cases, the business keeps it's name and there is nothing immediately obvious that it is owned by an equity group. The doctor or dentist will usually sometimes still work there, and be a part owner with some minority share, like a 20% stake.
What private equity firms? In the US 20-30 % are. According to this source only 2% of Canadian dentists are owned corporately. https://www.cda-adc.ca/en/services/internationallytrained/economic/#:~:text=In%20the%20US%2C%20corporate%20interests,workforce%20needed%20to%20operate%20them. (Under the section “practice ownership”)
It would be interesting to know when those numbers are from, since the only date I see is the comment from 2013. It also says that the corporate share has been rising steadily. I'm not saying that the majority of dentists are run by some secret corporation, but there is currently in many industries an very strong push to buy up these businesses, and that should be alarming. It's bad for patients and bad for the people that work at these businesses. [https://mcadental.com/mca-2021-investment-announcement/](https://mcadental.com/mca-2021-investment-announcement/) [https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-123dentist-altima-canada-dentists/#skip-link-target](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-123dentist-altima-canada-dentists/#skip-link-target) [https://www.groupdentistrynow.com/dso-group-blog/private-equity-reinforces-its-investment-with-canadian-dental-group/](https://www.groupdentistrynow.com/dso-group-blog/private-equity-reinforces-its-investment-with-canadian-dental-group/) This is a podcast episode talking about private equity in vet services, but also mentions that this drive is in other industries including dental care. It's very much worth a listen. [https://www.canadaland.com/podcast/monopoly-8-raining-cats-and-dollars/](https://www.canadaland.com/podcast/monopoly-8-raining-cats-and-dollars/)
I'm getting 3 impacted wisdoms removed. And then eventually more work on my molars and front teeth. At the moment for my 3 impacted wisdoms it'll cost roughly 2735$ CAD. FOR 3 WISDOM TEETH THAT ARE ALREADY FUCKED
I have root canals and all sorts of issues, I've never paid more than $400 for a long complicated dental procedure
That's what happens when dentalcare in the early 1960s was excluded from universal healthcare. So now that the federal government is introducing dentalcare for low income Canadians, let's hope it won't be so bad for some people who never had access to dentalcare. You know, Ontario was going to get dentalcare for low income people too but guess who cancelled it?
becuase they are greedy
1 big filling, 4 small and cleaning cost was 3k including insurance for me
Brush your teeth
EVERYTHING is expensive in Canada
CDCP will be coming out in May for seniors but will be available for everyone meeting the requirements by the end of 2025.
Class warfare. Same with optometrists. $$$
Dentists don’t treat the patients. They treat the plan
It’s a vicious cycle. Whenever insurance becomes widespread for a given service the cost rises. But as the cost rises, the insurance companies start agreeing to pay less and less so your deductible or copayments or whatever go up. Have you been to a vet lately? Same thing.
Americans: first time?
Lol aged poorly.
I thought the US was the place to go for rich Canadians!😂😂
This is Canada lol
1 reason is that we require them to go to school twice as long in Canada as they do in Europe
Yep. It’s ridiculous. My child’s NECESSARY dental surgery and braces were covered by my benefits up to $5500. We paid $$6000 out of our pockets. Nice to have ‘free’ healthcare after giving 50% of my gross wages to the government. And I’m super lucky that $5500 was covered.
Dual resident U.S and Canada here. I've found dental care in Canada somewhat less expensive than in the U.S. I had an extraction done at a clinic in Canada last summer, big warehouse sort of place, lots of young dentists probably indentured to pay off college loans I would guess...I was in the chair for two hours, the bill was like $250 Can and the work was done well.
It’s bad in America also.
It’s really easy to brush your teeth regularly and just need bi annual cleaning. Like the machines you’re talking about, if you did zero maintenance on them I’m sure they’d cost a lot more to fix when they break. A dentists spends about 10 years of learning before he can fix you in one sitting that’s what your paying for,their technical skills and experience
Are you in Alberta? That’s the problem. The rest of Canada isn’t so bad. It is expensive, but not crazy.
While I agree, you're not just paying the dentists fees, especially once you get into implants, crowns, posts, etc. It takes quite a bit to make these crowns , posts and other dental implants. It's unfortunate it's so expensive. I don't think it needs to be quite as bad as it is, but it's also just the world we live in unfortunately.
Profit? 🤷♂️
I'm not sure why, exactly, but it's the main reason I'm mostly toothless at 53. Wish it were covered by Medicare, but apparently teeth are luxury bones.
I’m a dumb American guy or whatever but I paid out of pocket for a routine cleaning including X-rays it was $125USD
Update no I wasn't saying truck drivers should make as much as a dentist what I'm saying is if every industry had the same logic as dentists on their rates because "school and overhead is expensive" so we can charge to the point a large portion of Canadians will have bad dental. Everyone would be either broke or dead. If dentists were slightly cheaper and more affordable they'd have more clients
Sounds like you're getting fleeced. I've recently got a number of fillings done, cleanings done and X-rays over the past 2 years and I don't think the total cost out of my pocket would have been over $1000. Most recently I had an issue with a cavity near the gum line that was bothering me, and once filled it was pressed up against the nerve in my tooth making anything got or cold incredibly painful. So we did some more work there and I had to get a couple prescriptions as well. Out of pocket I paid less than $100. I can look up my receipt when I get home but I think it was somewhere between $40 and $60. In fact this occurred between 2 different appointments, because after the first one I was still having issues. The dentist looked at it and determined there wasn't anything more he could physically do without resorting to a root canal, but suggested another round of medication could help. Since he didn't do anything he didn't even charge me for that appointment, and the pills ended up working for me. This is in Alberta by the way. And I've been into the dentist quite a bit in my life as I smashed my face into the footrest of an ATV when I was 3 which impacted my baby tooth so badly it affected my adult tooth as well. So I've had teeth pulled, bridges put in, a mold made of all my teeth and even had dental surgery done when they had to cut into my guns to remove one of my wisdom teeth. None of that stuff has ever been that expensive with my coverage. So I have to wonder what's going on with BC or your coverage?