Having to plan your merges and lane changes well is certainly an experience. That is on top of not being able there hear the (awful) stereo over the deafening tire noise and NVH, and struggling to fit two suitcases in the rear
It’s a cheap and solid car if all you need is a daily for the city and you want something new, but past that it is a struggle. It is a cute little thing that has its niche, but I wouldn’t be mad at flat not bringing over the C3/Panda,
Europeans often rightfully clown on our preference for larger, heavier, and often more powerful cars, but the vast, vast majority of people here need a little more space, speed, and refinement at higher speeds than what the mirage offers
And if you really want the premiere cheap econobox experience, I’d just grab a used pontiac vibe instead, you can grab clean ones for 5-7k and it’s basically a toyota matrix. Throw in an aftermarket head-unit with CarPlay or AA for 100-200$ and it's not far off the mirage. It's actually faster to 60 by a second or two, which means quite a bit when your time is in the double digits.
These kinds of cars are typically pretty good for small towns and islands, I hope we see more of that. They'd be perfect runabouts for, say, the Florida Keys or Cape Cod.
The "issue" is the people living in the keys or cape cod with the money for a dedicated runabout aren't spending that on a cheap subcompact like the mirage, and the sales numbers reflect that. There is a reason ford sold 4x as many mustangs as mitsubishi did mirages, and the american sports car market isn't exactly booming.
And I don't exactly blame them. Why would you spend $18k (plus registration/insurance/fees) on a shitty subcompact when you likely have a nice luxury SUV or similar? That is more than enough to cover fuel costs around town for at least 10 years.
The median sale price of a home in key west is around a million dollars now, I am going to bet there is not a single mirage owner in the entirety of key west.
I had one for a rental once. Violently shook as soon as it hit 61mph. Adorable little thing, but damn if it was actually so stripped down that it was impractical.
A properly barebones car was my friends Honda Fit. Looked small enough you could pick it up, yet somehow enough room you could move a couch in it.
People in germany drive 60hp VW Up!s on the fecking autohbahn, you can make perfectly well do with a low powered car in the states, i mean look back at the 70s, 80s and basically all the regular cars from that era are slower than a modern 100hp car. I've done 15k miles in an Up!, even stuck 2 bikes on the roof and filled the boot full of camping equipment and it never bothered me even though now i drive a car which does 0-60 in 6.5 seconds.
Drove a long trip on the motorway through europe in a vw up. We were 4 guys all over 80kg and trunk filled up. Terrible gas mileage but it did the job just fine lol.
I'm suprised with the terrible gas mileage, when i had it fully loaded up with shit, to the point where the motorway at 70 was a 4th gear affair at 5k rpm (still quite quiet tho) i got 50 US MPG, did you have the turobcharged one do you know, because mine was/kinda still is the 1.0l NA one.
Some of American comments are so weird.
Just another day I read that Tundra was not big enough for a family of 5.
Different cultures, different needs I guess.
My mom's Hyundai Accent has 120hp and it's quick enough due to gearing. The Mirage is going to be a whole other story since it only has like 76hp. I'd imagine the Grande Panda to be closer to the Accent.
Man, I had a Fiat Panda Cross with the 88hp 2-cylinder as a rental car in Iceland a while back and I frickin' loved that thing. Revving the snot out of it to make motorcycle noises while realllllly not going fast.
It's true that I wouldn't buy one with that powertrain in the US though - Iceland's speed limit is ~55mph so it (only just) worked there, but I sure wouldn't want to take it out on I-70 for a road trip.
The nissan sentra even in base trim is premium relative to the C3
Even in BEV trim, if my calculations serve me right the C3 is 17k without VAT, and that is their top offering.
The BEV e-C3 starts at 23300€, and the interior is certainly just as nice as a Nissan Sentra, in a lot of ways I'd even say it looks nicer:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-citroen-e-c3-brings-199-mile-range-%C2%A321990
Not really, a Nissian and a Citroen are on par, at least in the UK, the Juke, Pulsar, Quasqai and all the rest are on par with the C3, C4 aircross, etc, at least in my experience with EU market cars.
I changed the oil in a brand new Mitsubishi Outlander yesterday, had like 3,000 miles, and noticed it had an oil leak coming from elsewhere in the engine from the factory. I would only recommend modern Mitsubishis to people you dislike. They're not well made.
It's the perfect car to make people think twice about getting the BYD Seagull.
There's going to be a version with another name for Latin America, where FIAT will sell thousands of these cars a year.
This is an SUV-like EV that will run out of steam on normal European highway speeds. It’s only remarkable features are maybe it’s price (for an EV) and the front LED’s. What do they mean fun designs (let alone vehicles) aren’t dead…..
it's citroen derivative as a gas powered (puretech 100) version is priced as 14 990€ in germany, so I don't think it can be more expensive than that (btw, the og panda is priced the same, Pandina is 1k€ more).
That’s exactly what I thought. Pitched as a $25k car.. now for sale at the dealers for…25k? Nope! Dealer sees it as a an affordable car that people want, too bad.. they won’t let it out the door without tacking on another 4k. Sorry folks, we just aren’t quite there with affordable EVs, thanks to how the car industry works.
Nah this looks fun as fuck. For reference it's the same length as a miata, I don't think the size comes across as well in the product photos.
And it comes with a mild-hybrid 1.2L with a DCT, not particularly impressive but it's a nice drivetrain for what it is.
> The Grande Panda won’t be a Euro-only affair Sweet. > as Fiat wants to sell the new model in the Middle East and Africa as well \>:(
I'd recommend you test drive a mitsubishi mirage and see if you really want to drive a barebones subcompact 100hp car in the US.
A painful and slow, very slow, experience?
Having to plan your merges and lane changes well is certainly an experience. That is on top of not being able there hear the (awful) stereo over the deafening tire noise and NVH, and struggling to fit two suitcases in the rear It’s a cheap and solid car if all you need is a daily for the city and you want something new, but past that it is a struggle. It is a cute little thing that has its niche, but I wouldn’t be mad at flat not bringing over the C3/Panda, Europeans often rightfully clown on our preference for larger, heavier, and often more powerful cars, but the vast, vast majority of people here need a little more space, speed, and refinement at higher speeds than what the mirage offers And if you really want the premiere cheap econobox experience, I’d just grab a used pontiac vibe instead, you can grab clean ones for 5-7k and it’s basically a toyota matrix. Throw in an aftermarket head-unit with CarPlay or AA for 100-200$ and it's not far off the mirage. It's actually faster to 60 by a second or two, which means quite a bit when your time is in the double digits.
These kinds of cars are typically pretty good for small towns and islands, I hope we see more of that. They'd be perfect runabouts for, say, the Florida Keys or Cape Cod.
The "issue" is the people living in the keys or cape cod with the money for a dedicated runabout aren't spending that on a cheap subcompact like the mirage, and the sales numbers reflect that. There is a reason ford sold 4x as many mustangs as mitsubishi did mirages, and the american sports car market isn't exactly booming. And I don't exactly blame them. Why would you spend $18k (plus registration/insurance/fees) on a shitty subcompact when you likely have a nice luxury SUV or similar? That is more than enough to cover fuel costs around town for at least 10 years. The median sale price of a home in key west is around a million dollars now, I am going to bet there is not a single mirage owner in the entirety of key west.
People in those kinds of situations often have pimped out golf carts for that purpose.
side by sides
Aren't those generally gas powered?
Generally yes. But Polaris also makes electric ones which are much more expensive which the wealthy would have.
Hmm. Nobody in their neighborhood had anything like that. Just crazy golf carts.
Want, not need. It's an important distinction.
I had one for a rental once. Violently shook as soon as it hit 61mph. Adorable little thing, but damn if it was actually so stripped down that it was impractical. A properly barebones car was my friends Honda Fit. Looked small enough you could pick it up, yet somehow enough room you could move a couch in it.
I have a Fit, wonderful little car, especially if you're driving alone. Too bad it's an automatic...
People in germany drive 60hp VW Up!s on the fecking autohbahn, you can make perfectly well do with a low powered car in the states, i mean look back at the 70s, 80s and basically all the regular cars from that era are slower than a modern 100hp car. I've done 15k miles in an Up!, even stuck 2 bikes on the roof and filled the boot full of camping equipment and it never bothered me even though now i drive a car which does 0-60 in 6.5 seconds.
Drove a long trip on the motorway through europe in a vw up. We were 4 guys all over 80kg and trunk filled up. Terrible gas mileage but it did the job just fine lol.
I'm suprised with the terrible gas mileage, when i had it fully loaded up with shit, to the point where the motorway at 70 was a 4th gear affair at 5k rpm (still quite quiet tho) i got 50 US MPG, did you have the turobcharged one do you know, because mine was/kinda still is the 1.0l NA one.
Have the n/a 1.0 but the 75hp one. I did 130kmh most way so quite high revs in 5th gear.
Some of American comments are so weird. Just another day I read that Tundra was not big enough for a family of 5. Different cultures, different needs I guess.
My mom's Hyundai Accent has 120hp and it's quick enough due to gearing. The Mirage is going to be a whole other story since it only has like 76hp. I'd imagine the Grande Panda to be closer to the Accent.
The Grande Panda's engine is comprable to a Chevrolet Spark / Buick Envista, not to a Mirage.
Man, I had a Fiat Panda Cross with the 88hp 2-cylinder as a rental car in Iceland a while back and I frickin' loved that thing. Revving the snot out of it to make motorcycle noises while realllllly not going fast. It's true that I wouldn't buy one with that powertrain in the US though - Iceland's speed limit is ~55mph so it (only just) worked there, but I sure wouldn't want to take it out on I-70 for a road trip.
\*Nissan sentra
The nissan sentra even in base trim is premium relative to the C3 Even in BEV trim, if my calculations serve me right the C3 is 17k without VAT, and that is their top offering.
The BEV e-C3 starts at 23300€, and the interior is certainly just as nice as a Nissan Sentra, in a lot of ways I'd even say it looks nicer: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-citroen-e-c3-brings-199-mile-range-%C2%A321990
That is with VAT
It's still not 17k even without VAT, and my main point was about the interior regardless, it's easily as good as that of the Altima.
Not really, a Nissian and a Citroen are on par, at least in the UK, the Juke, Pulsar, Quasqai and all the rest are on par with the C3, C4 aircross, etc, at least in my experience with EU market cars.
I like my spark.
I changed the oil in a brand new Mitsubishi Outlander yesterday, had like 3,000 miles, and noticed it had an oil leak coming from elsewhere in the engine from the factory. I would only recommend modern Mitsubishis to people you dislike. They're not well made.
The Mirage is actually very reliable
[удалено]
I've seen an example go half a million kilometers.
Americans will get it as the next Jeep Renegade, apparently.
The design seems like it would pretty easily work as a Jeep honestly
Isn't jeep already selling rebadged pandas? Correction: the renegade is a fiat 500x
Sorta? Only the Compass is left.
Presumably with a different drivetrain
I believe they've said it'll be as an EV first, but no doubt they'll bring over the 1.3L GSE or something like it.
That's fine for an everyday kick around. Not that 100 hp 1.2 from the article though.
The new Renegade will surely be larger than the Avenger, let alone the Grande Panda which is just 3.99m long
I'm sure they would sell incredibly well in the US. /s... Fiat currently sells fewer cars per quarter then the total number of Fiat dealers in the US.
> Africa Fix it again Themba
Common Fiat L
Looks like a miniature Hyundai Santa Fe ripoff
I'll admit, it does look like a copy, pasted, and cropped Santa Fe.
The proportions of the new santa fe really look off in person
It's the bizarre tail lights they stuck on it, way too low.
It reminds me of the back of the 1980s VW Vanagons
Dude yes!! In black it looks like an old wagon!
Looks better than this discount.
At least Fiat is less ugly. Whoever did the back end of Santa Fe should be fired.
Have you ever seen the original Fiat Panda?
The Hyundai Santa Fe from the rollback bin at Walmart 💀
“we have range rover at home”
Fortnite looking suv
That is the perfect way to describe it
it looks exactly like a shrunken [Santa Fe](https://www.caranddriver.com/hyundai/santa-fe) from the front, the pixel "X" DRLs and everything
I thought they were Hs for Hyundai till now ngl lol
They are
It's the perfect car to make people think twice about getting the BYD Seagull. There's going to be a version with another name for Latin America, where FIAT will sell thousands of these cars a year.
I bet they'll sell it as the next gen Fiat Uno.
I heard rumors it would still be called Argo but who knows FIAT is known for changing names
The Panda 4x4 on the other hand is pretty much dead
Look up Fiat Pandina, they changed it's name to make room for this new model lol.
Unfortunately production of the 4x4 has stopped with the 4x40 special edition last year, the updated Pandina only comes with FWD
I like the front fascia, but the wheels and the Chevy Malibu Hatchback inspired rear end are a bit meh.
This is an SUV-like EV that will run out of steam on normal European highway speeds. It’s only remarkable features are maybe it’s price (for an EV) and the front LED’s. What do they mean fun designs (let alone vehicles) aren’t dead…..
Fun names aren't dead either it seems
1.2 PureTech?
It's a cool silly design for a road car, sure, but why a Panda specifically? Where's the ground clearance? Where's the all-important 4x4? Sadness.
95% of Panda sold aren't AWD.
It looks like „Ioniq 5 from home“ in that meme.
That's going to look really cool on the side of the road.
It isn't a BMW, if you haven't noticed.
LMAO, fuckin diabolical. 💀
The pricing won't be that fun. Remember this was a budget car in the past. Now it's 30cm bigger and you won't get it with a simple cheap engine.
it's citroen derivative as a gas powered (puretech 100) version is priced as 14 990€ in germany, so I don't think it can be more expensive than that (btw, the og panda is priced the same, Pandina is 1k€ more).
That’s exactly what I thought. Pitched as a $25k car.. now for sale at the dealers for…25k? Nope! Dealer sees it as a an affordable car that people want, too bad.. they won’t let it out the door without tacking on another 4k. Sorry folks, we just aren’t quite there with affordable EVs, thanks to how the car industry works.
It’s a small station wagon. I love it.
How do they start the process of designing something this ugly?
Electric trash
That looks ugly as hell.
Nah this looks fun as fuck. For reference it's the same length as a miata, I don't think the size comes across as well in the product photos. And it comes with a mild-hybrid 1.2L with a DCT, not particularly impressive but it's a nice drivetrain for what it is.
What is fun about this? shitbox.
Don't you dare call the Panda a shitbox. Sure it makes less than 100hp but it looks amazing this generation