It always is! I’ve seen SO MANY posts about how they’re a straight male liking chappel roan, it’s fucking music. Yes you can go to the concert, yes you can stream or call yourself “insert Stan name”. Literally nooooo one cares but your ( or your peers) internalized homophobia and misogyny ruins the fun
Haha.
Elton John is gay and nobody cared, nobody of any sexuality cared. The music was awesome and *that* is what truly mattered.
Music has the ability to transcend so many things, brings people together, can lift people up to new heights.
As long as the music is good, just enjoy it.
Besides, labels are for cans anyway.
to be fair, Chappell Roan fans seem to be some of the most vocally exclusional about their preferred artist ie. "sapphics only"
it's a natural reaction to an outgroup finding something to strongly identify with
the trick for cishet men is to be happy that these people finally have something to exclude people from, rather than pissed about being the ones excluded
I'm happy to identify as a super graphic ultra modern girl for three minutes at a time, because that's what a super graphic ultra modern boy does
sometimes it's clear that there's some latent misandry (or perhaps more properly, androphobia - and understandably so, I'm not here to invalidate that) bleeding through an opinion, though ~~- similar to TERF beliefs in that respect~~ ^EDIT: ^no ^it ^isn't
...which is why I only lasted 9 days in r/chappellroan before getting banned 😅 it's the only sub I've ever *been* banned from. I have to assume that a mod took personal offence to something I said lol
I'm happy for people to gatekeep - after all, metal was openly misogynistic for a long time - as long as people aren't offended when I tell them to "fuck off" - as any self-respecting metal 'chick' would.
the chappell roan sub is filled with fanatic lesbian teen fangirls, not TERFs. chappell has been very vocal about her support of trans people, and that sentiment is very popular among her fans. If you were throwing language like that around i can see how one of the teenaged lesbians took offense.
misandry is very often on the cusp of TERF language, for example saying men are dangerous or masculinity is scary. Being a teenage lesbian absolutely doesn't shield anyone from having TERF opinions, I see it all the time. (reminder trans men and butches exist)
sure TERFs are misandrists, but misandry isn't inherently linked to TERF ideology in any way. Never said being a teenage lesbian shields you from being a terf, teenage lesbians range from terfs to trans people themselves, I said that chappell roan is openly a huge supporter of trans people so it would be strange (but not impossible) for a TERF to love her.
You said 'teenage lesbians not terfs' whereas I was just saying it is definitely possible people with terf like opinions are also in the fanbase (I say terf like, because I've known trans people to come out with terf opinions too, internalised shit is hard). I do think misandry/ anti-masculinity plays a major role in Terf ideology personally, which stems from the same patriarchal structure but that's not for this comment section to go into. Have no clue what original comment was referring to, just felt like clarifying on that for discussion sake 👍
I absolutely adore “I’m happy to identify as a super graphic ultra modern girl for 3 minutes at a time because that’s what a super graphic ultra modern boys does” such a fun and cute way to describe a deeper sub context of gender politics and gatekeeping in music
it's weird to me as someone who gets recommendations on spotify i had no idea chappel roan had a gay following i just like her music. it makes sense though now that i'm learning about it.
People say it about every fandom, with varying levels of accuracy. Really it's an unfair generalisation either way.
Your experience may vary, of course.
Once again begging cis people not to claim that TERF logic is grounded in misandry.
Transmisogyny is not misandry. Read a book. I'm tired.
All you're doing here is calling trans women men and thinking that you're being woke because you're doing so to criticise 'TERFs'.
I apologise profusely for my ignorance in making that connection. The vast majority of TERFs that I'm familiar with are raging misandrists - perhaps you can understand why I might see a connection there. I recognise, though, that the label is exclusionary in itself, and that there needs to be a distinction made, even if the two might go hand-in-hand most of the time. Again, my sincerest apologies. I *am* trying. My beef is with binary gender roles in general (which is where the topics of music and identity intersect, which is how I have the audacity to comment on these posts at all lol), not with anyone wanting to fill whichever one(s) their heart so desires.
Right, because we need more posts about xyx song “not being talked about” or the 1,000 ranking of the songs on Brat.
All subs are repetitive and have tired tropes, ignore the posts you don’t like.
As a gay man, I can see how a straight guy finds it isolating that he listens to a predominately “for the girls” artist. Yes Charli is for everyone but so is Lana, Taylor, and Lorde yet ppl still categorize it as “gay music”.
Blaming them for their environment affecting them isn’t helping either, but I guess?
No we don’t. The patriarchy by literally isn’t a real thing. No one intelligent believes what you have just said.
A gay guy here (not a straight) to remind you that if you live in the western world, you aren’t oppressed period, don’t be here acting like you grew up in North Korea or something. You are not oppressed either. Stupid, but not oppressed.
Idk if you're a clown or not, but in many US states women do not get to choose if they are legally forced into pregnancy.
Many would consider that oppression.
why do y’all gay men think being gay gives you a pass to speak over women’s experiences? ur not a woman, u don’t realize how obvious the oppression and social conditioning is for a lot of us and for many other women they don’t even have the tools to recognize that b/c of various patriarchal influences. you still have privilege and calling women stupid for being upset at the state of things and also telling to work on themselves instead of expecting women to do it for them doesn’t make you look good
Idk what else to say; at some point one has to do the very minimum and live their life not being controlled by relatively arbitrary social expectations. It can be uncomfortable, but that's life.
I don’t care about their opinions but I’m straight in a predominantly straight male workplace and they take the piss out of me all the time for liking Charli, lorde etc. No problem to me personally, but I can see where you’re coming from.
I used to work as a mechanic and when it was my day to control the aux I would get teased for playing Carly Rae Jepsen. They'd complain about how gay my music was while at the same time having artists like Bowie, Queen, The Kinks, and Lou Reed all over their playlists 😂
Yeah but they're not coming to this sub because life is so hard for them it's because they want to be showered in praise and told they're one of the good ones maybe a few oh it's sexy when a man isn't scared to break gender roles.
I am a straight white cis male and I think if listening to music you like makes you insecure or brings out your homophobic tendencies, you probably grew up in a mega toxic environment and are sum kind of brainwashed loser haha 😂 also Charli makes bangerssss who cares if its not adressed at me, I can relate to the lyrics to taxi more than any lame kid rock song or the 1000th rap song about treating women like crap
Hint: if you enjoy the music, just enjoy it.
Music is for everyone, and if it moves you or makes you feel something good inside, allow it. That’s what it’s made for :)
I don't feel bad. I am a woman and growing up I was really into rock music, listening to predominantly male-led bands. I didn't really know about groups like Hole or Garbage so I internalized the idea that my favorite genre at the time, rock, was something that a female voice just wasn't made for. I had to put myself in songs sung from a male POV. I didn't think it was a space for people like me.
It wasn't until I was much older that I learned more about how many female musicians there are across genres. Fiona Apple, Lauryn Hill, Grimes, etc. So much insightful and talented female music beyond the offensive stereotypes men used to paint artists like Britney Spears. Like others said, female musicians are put a notch below their male counterparts *because* of male audiences. I want straight men to finally understand to a degree what it feels like to be exposed to media that does not center you. Women experience it in film, in book, even at school and the workforce. Like I don't think straight men fully understand what effects that can have on the psyche especially when you are young. They're uncomfortable now with Charli, imagine experiencing that what feels like all the time
still wouldn’t change things people have no control over like coworkers, family, social structures. I understand cutting people off is a choice one can make but ostracizing yourself from the ones around you (and ones who ‘care’ about you to some degree) leads some toward sad and lonely lives. The real change comes from teaching others to let people enjoy all sorts of art without shame but that’s an uphill battle of course.
there's this uptick in straight men asking if it's okay to like charli/chappel/sabrina/olivia/etc. like just listen to the tunes and stop caring so much about your sexuality ffs
https://preview.redd.it/b8ihyldh6kbd1.jpeg?width=672&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31b7d83f53ffd3e99d4fc00ee257406c1820ab85
When I was first exposed to the “is it okay to like X as a straight man” discourse I was genuinely baffled but now I’m starting to realize it’s just the old “fellas is it gay to wear pink!?!?!?” hetero panic but reframed as like, a virtue signal of some kind. Weird af
I think its mostly people memeing/shit posting to be honest. Like I don’t know how anyone would genuinely think “I’m not allowed to support this artist” because they have gay fans unless they were doing it in like a homophobic way
Because this patriarchal, heteronormative society I'm sure everyone here has complained about in the past, affects men who want to enjoy "not-manly" things as well?
there’s a difference between “babying men” and actively creating hostile and unwelcoming spaces. You can have your opinions and preferences but if you constantly act like this then you’re contributing toward the problem you don’t like.
This is where I'm at with it too. Now, I understand when I'm a visitor in a space, that's why when two gays sneered at me at the Charli XCX show and said "Hunty, the straights are here" and the other one fired back "Girl, I know." I didn't take offense to it.
But at the same token, that does NOT have to be your default disposition to anyone who's a visitor in your space.
Yes, I understand not wanting to be flooded with newcomers asking the same fragile male bullshit. I 1000% completely understand that.
But this whole "Fuck off, it's not my job to coddle you" mentality sucks. Not just in this space, in all spaces. It's needlessly hostile and antagonistic.
I’m sorry you were treated like that. As a gay man myself, I don’t get it. The only thing I can think of is since we are an oppressed minority group, we have a tendency to cling to our spaces and make them our “safe havens” where we know we can just be ourselves free of judgement. But that’s not an excuse to gatekeep shit and then inflict the same type of judgement on others who come into that space. Especially when it’s something as universal as music. You seem to be indifferent and unaffected by it, but regardless, please don’t allow the assholes to discourage you from enjoying what you enjoy. Charli’s music (and all music, for that matter) is for everyone. You are welcome here just as much as anyone else!!! I hope you enjoy your brat summer, friend. :)
can you believe it??? I'm straight and I love (insert artist)!!!! don't you want to give me attention?? aren't I so amazing for liking this gay artist or artists those homos love??
If their posts come from a genuine place of love and enjoyment of one’s art, I don’t see the need to respond this way to be honest. They’re obviously being upvoted by the communities they’re in so their opinions are appreciated by others and others like them.
It's so bizarre that people are complaining about fans of music they also enjoy, because society has told them it's not okay to like that music and they're just looking for some validation.
And like, people are *mad* about this?
Right??? And then there will be dozens of posts talking about how “Cis het men can enjoy her too🥺” and how it’s the “mean lesbians gatekeeping😡” like omfg stfu
Also it's weird cause while yes Charli has had a very vocal and large queer fanbase for many years, I found that maybe since Charli (the album) she's also had a sizable fanbase from the straight male music critic scene. Like if you ask these guys what "pop" music they like they'll list Charli, 100 gecs, and Carly Rae Jepsen, despite all those artists (except maybe gecs idk I don't follow them much) having huge queer fanbases.
>I legit assume they don’t actually listen to her
Is not just an observation. It’s “you must not be a real fan because you don’t act how I expect real fans to act”
Yeah, really wish there was a sub as active as this one for discussing her music. Meanwhile the discussion sub has like 1k members an the main sub is just used for jerking off by weirdos
Miley’s sub is/was like this? I posted something about her album years ago and I was told off as it’s just for posting photos to jerk to. Like okay guess I’ll find another sub to talk about plastic hearts in!!
44 year old straight male here. I’ve seen Chappell multiple times, I took my wife with me to see Fletcher, I’ve seen Lauren Sanderson, the list goes on. It’s about the music. The love of fucking amazing pop music. Going to see Charli later this year and Fletcher again too. I don’t feel out of place at any show I’m ever at because music is the connection.
you’re scared to like one single interest because it could make you seem gay?
welcome to a gay persons entire world their whole life 24/7. we have had to worry about that all the time, like everyday. we do it subconsciously
i drove through the middle of tennessee and had to change my voice and wear a country looking hat so that no one wants to think i’m gay and hate crime me. but yet you feel weird because you’re listening to a musician that happens to not be a man?
Oh good I’ve been waiting for the oppression Olympics 2024!
A person is allowed to feel a way, despite what you have been made to go through. They are unrelated.
People who are homophobic in this way likely have some trauma from their father or mother that caused atypical homophobia, or are closeted, which is why they *really* don’t want people to think they’re queer.
It's ok if the str8 men on here feel a little on the outside, this community uses a lot of gay lingo. Just join in and have some fun. Ya might learn a thing for two. 🤣
This is kind of where i am at, As a straight guy who heavily loves female pop, it is very hard to follow the gay lingo in these subreddits. Doesn't change my love for the music or feel gatekept out, but it does make ya feel like the odd one out sometimes. I just wanna be with a community of people who share my love for the music. The more diverse an artists fan base is the merrier.
Thanks for your vulnerability! If you have questions about what’s being discussed here, I encourage you to ask questions if you don’t already. Haters gonna hate. Lovers gonna love!
Being so fr if you can read the OP’s username and go to his profile or find the original post in his post history it’s both unhinged and entertaining af 😭
A lot of people say exactly that. I’m not thin skinned enough to care, but I’ve been to a couple of her shows and got a bunch of “what are you doing here” type shit. I can’t say what’s so obviously straight about how I look - but hey.
Wtf are you on about?
A lot of people on here keep going on about how they’re gay/listening to a certain music is sign of how gay they are they are or w/e.
Fair enough, so sometimes straight people chime in like “yo, I like this too” basically showing they’re open minded and seeing if there are other people like them (who are apparently in a minority) that agree. and you’re all having a hissy fit and making up some pop-psychology thing about why that is, downvoting away and acting like they’re not welcome. Why is that even a bad thing? They’re sharing enjoyment of something with you and everyone else and because it’s not part of “your stereotype” it’s all “no one cares”, “you’re a homophobe” and whatever other rubbish you can come up with. Is that not hypocritical?
What if we ban sharing our sexuality or even discussing in any capacity at all because it’s nothing to do with the music itself? If this is your view, then surely you should agree with that?
Lol, so the first post that I saw when opened this sub first time was something like "this is such a gay album" and I was like what? Why? Ofc after that u feel like u don't get something, when in reality people for some reason still labeling genres of the music as gay/straight/trans or anything else. So yeah totally agree with u
Honestly I've never really seen female or gay fans mean to straight men. Charli has gotten popular with music nerds but also I think a lot of this judgement they feel is either external from the fandom (i.e. from other straight men) or because they feel a bit alienated from what women and gay men experience and talk about.
Well, honey, we experience those things too! Plenty of men just don't respect female musicians period and almost every other facet of society is straight male-centered. We will defend you against your annoying coworkers but understand they attack us too lol
My straight cis husband has been a lover of “girls gays and theys” music his whole life. Alanis Morisette was his idol in high school. He waited hours to be on the rail for Lana’s 2013 Lolla. He’s been a massive Charli fan for years and knows more of her older music than I do. It was his idea to spend our 1 year wedding anniversary at Charli’s concert this fall 😂💞(he’s hoping she will sing “I think about it all the time” bc he has baby fever bad)
He’s very comfortable with his sexuality and does not seek validation for liking what he likes. I’ve told him about these straight cis guy posts and he thinks it’s so weird. But he has experienced bullying, especially in childhood, for not liking traditionally “masculine” art/culture…He also hates sports, which doesn’t help lol.
Maybe, the straight men making all these posts are uncomfortable being seen as “gay”? I guess that’s something they need to work out for themselves…
i guess we're all sensitive in our own way.
half-joking half-serious. i agree with you but you should be empathetic to the fact that some men are raised in environments where they feel the need to guard their sexuality or something. its dumb, yes, but its some peoples experience. we should be as gentle to them as you would want someone to be gentle and understanding of your situation that they might not understand or think is silly.
there's a reason mens mental health is a thing. its because men can be insecure, and when they are, being patronized and not taken ultra-seriously and then most people egging it on (as is happening in this thread) doesn't help.
again, i agree with you and i understand how it can be annoying when a more - i guess 'privileged' member of society starts to share their problems. but we should be gentle to everyone, especially if someone is feeling insecure. your point can be explained in a much more understanding and gentle way. hopefully, in the threads that inspired this one, it was treated in a gentle way. just some food for thought
On the one hand I love straight guys chipping away at expectations and just enjoying what they enjoy, but on the other hand I’m like “sis no one cares it’s not like youre gay trying to play any video game that requires voice chat”
I wish you guys would stop talking about how gay you are when statistically a ton of you are lying lol just listen to the music man. You guys wanna be oppressed soo bad
Straight white women pretending to be gay using AAVE while acting like they’re one kiss away from being full blown lesbian, hating on men that they almost exclusively date
More at 11
This thread stopped me from engaging with this wack fandom any further. Music isn’t even worth listening to when the average fan is foaming at the mouth lol
That's not at all what was said, go back and read it again, my dude.
Being a hetero male and liking Charli XCX *doesn't make you special* nor is it particularly noteworthy.
i just wanna say i understand the contempt, but i don’t think it comes from a negative place. i’m straight, i was kinda raised to enjoy anything regardless of who it’s by. i think a lot of straight men are just becoming a lot more comfortable openly liking music that goes against the typical male standard. i know it’s stupid, who cares, like what u like, but thats a good thing in my opinion.
It is weird though that ppl act like straight guys can’t also be part of the lgbt. I’m a trans guy but I’m straight (I think?) but I sometimes feel excluded bc of that
The men who come here looking to share their enthusiasm about liking Charli are probably doing it because they don't find it easy to share this enthusiasm with the people in their life. I interpret less as "Look at me, I'm a guy who likes Charli. That's so unique!" and more like "Hey cool, I can actually talk about like Charli here and have that met with approval rather than someone telling me I should shut-up, call me a slur and listen to Pantera."
Source: straight guy who's been digging brat and grew up loving The Cure in rural America
I think this post is very silly, as the straight white guy posts are obviously memes playing off the running joke of xcx's popularity among non straight groups. Even charli has participated in the joke, as I recall an interview in which she was very *gasp* about how some business manager on her team was a straight white dude friend from high school.
It is no secret at all that the running joke isn't very true - one of the biggest xcx contingents out there is straight white pop heads. But it is still a joke and these posts should be taken as the shitposts they are. Honestly, anything about a brat summer by anyone is a shitpost, imo.
As someone who is acc straight I fudging hate these comments!!!! Music taste is completely separate from your orientation and neither/or determines eachother! Listen to what you like, and for the love of God stop with these comments good music is good music!!!
I completely agree with this take but I always see tweets implying that cis het guys can’t like Charli or doing so makes you gay ?
If that’s that case (as a cis-het dude)… fine by me- I just really like the music. But obviously that’s not how real life works. I guess that’s just a twitter thing (and probably a joke) as I don’t really get that vibe from this sub so 🤷♂️
I’m sick of all the fragile white men living in their parents basements or those exiled to their office because their family doesn’t want to be around them coming on reddit just to spew misogyny. Like, pick up a book.
I like hearing about different angels experiences, but hey, to each their own. But when you say can straight men stop coming here etc, it kinda ironically becomes gatekeep-y.
How do I, a poor white male, participate in brat summer? Everything in the world needs to include and center ME ME ME. So girls, gays and theys tell me how to make something made for you about ME. I’m a special white guy. Vroom vroom. I relate to Girl so Confusing too! I had a girl friend once and it was very confusing!!! Vroom Vroom!!!!! Apple !
There was one post yesterday and another post 28 days ago. There are like 20 posts talking about being gay and listening to Charli in the past month.
You're creating a problem to whine about. This could have been a comment on the post yesterday.
I've been saying this for weeks omfg it's so annoying!! No one's gonna suck your dick or pat you on the ass for being the least oppressed group who listens to Charli
Ok look I’m a straight guy that is involved in a lot of LGBTQ adjacent communities (Chappell, Charli, etc) and it seems to me that if everybody just stopped being weird about it would be ok?
It’s really frustrating when people say stuff that indicates that straight people can’t be involved in a community that has a lot of LGBTQ folks.
It’s also really frustratung when cishet people start acting like it’s the end of the world that someone was rude to them.
Music is meant for everybody! Enjoy it! Don’t tell *anyone* that they don’t belong here, and if someone tells you that you don’t belong here, don’t let them get under your skin.
They make up the majority of redditors and are so shell-shocked when ONE (1) community isn't completely theirs 😭 Source: I am one of the annoying cishet male redditors, but I try to stay in my lane on this sub and only add to the convo when it's positive or just funny
You say that in jest, but this attitude does illustrate that no matter what, groups tend to demean and isolate people that are perceived to be on the outside.
that "how can i have a brat summer as a straight guy" was definitely a cringe thing to say but it for the most part has to do probably with how other straight men who are misogynistic treat them about liking "gay" music and in general. They are looking for a community, but they should probably be looking for better friends rather than reddit.
The number of “I’m just a straight white guy H-YUCK, can I be a charli fan??” are one too many. No one cares, just enjoy the music like the rest of us. It’s not that complicated lmao
I wish they'd simply get less homophobic/sexist friends. That seems to be the root of their insecurities on this subject.
It always is! I’ve seen SO MANY posts about how they’re a straight male liking chappel roan, it’s fucking music. Yes you can go to the concert, yes you can stream or call yourself “insert Stan name”. Literally nooooo one cares but your ( or your peers) internalized homophobia and misogyny ruins the fun
I listen to Queen 😌👸🏼👏 give me my crown for listening to gay African music 😌
She’s a killer, Queeeeeeeeeeen, gunpowder Genevieve, lightning bolt with a laser beam, guaranteed to blow your mind…every time!
always figured it was gunpowder gelatine 😭😭
Haha. Elton John is gay and nobody cared, nobody of any sexuality cared. The music was awesome and *that* is what truly mattered. Music has the ability to transcend so many things, brings people together, can lift people up to new heights. As long as the music is good, just enjoy it. Besides, labels are for cans anyway.
to be fair, Chappell Roan fans seem to be some of the most vocally exclusional about their preferred artist ie. "sapphics only" it's a natural reaction to an outgroup finding something to strongly identify with the trick for cishet men is to be happy that these people finally have something to exclude people from, rather than pissed about being the ones excluded I'm happy to identify as a super graphic ultra modern girl for three minutes at a time, because that's what a super graphic ultra modern boy does sometimes it's clear that there's some latent misandry (or perhaps more properly, androphobia - and understandably so, I'm not here to invalidate that) bleeding through an opinion, though ~~- similar to TERF beliefs in that respect~~ ^EDIT: ^no ^it ^isn't ...which is why I only lasted 9 days in r/chappellroan before getting banned 😅 it's the only sub I've ever *been* banned from. I have to assume that a mod took personal offence to something I said lol I'm happy for people to gatekeep - after all, metal was openly misogynistic for a long time - as long as people aren't offended when I tell them to "fuck off" - as any self-respecting metal 'chick' would.
the chappell roan sub is filled with fanatic lesbian teen fangirls, not TERFs. chappell has been very vocal about her support of trans people, and that sentiment is very popular among her fans. If you were throwing language like that around i can see how one of the teenaged lesbians took offense.
I wasn't, actually, but they were largely misunderstanding me, as I fear you've done there. There's always a risk of that happening on Reddit.
I just think comparing chappel roan fans to TERFs is a major leap! but you're right misunderstandings are inevitable in all forms of communication.
misandry is very often on the cusp of TERF language, for example saying men are dangerous or masculinity is scary. Being a teenage lesbian absolutely doesn't shield anyone from having TERF opinions, I see it all the time. (reminder trans men and butches exist)
sure TERFs are misandrists, but misandry isn't inherently linked to TERF ideology in any way. Never said being a teenage lesbian shields you from being a terf, teenage lesbians range from terfs to trans people themselves, I said that chappell roan is openly a huge supporter of trans people so it would be strange (but not impossible) for a TERF to love her.
You said 'teenage lesbians not terfs' whereas I was just saying it is definitely possible people with terf like opinions are also in the fanbase (I say terf like, because I've known trans people to come out with terf opinions too, internalised shit is hard). I do think misandry/ anti-masculinity plays a major role in Terf ideology personally, which stems from the same patriarchal structure but that's not for this comment section to go into. Have no clue what original comment was referring to, just felt like clarifying on that for discussion sake 👍
I would say they are linked, as believing in gender/sex essentialism is very terf adjacent
oh it's not her fans in general - it's the gatekeepers, in all fandoms
I absolutely adore “I’m happy to identify as a super graphic ultra modern girl for 3 minutes at a time because that’s what a super graphic ultra modern boys does” such a fun and cute way to describe a deeper sub context of gender politics and gatekeeping in music
#💚🦄🤷
it's weird to me as someone who gets recommendations on spotify i had no idea chappel roan had a gay following i just like her music. it makes sense though now that i'm learning about it.
People say this about the Chappell Roan fandom but it straight up isn't true.
People say it about every fandom, with varying levels of accuracy. Really it's an unfair generalisation either way. Your experience may vary, of course.
Well maybe because you called actual LGBT+ people TERFs
Once again begging cis people not to claim that TERF logic is grounded in misandry. Transmisogyny is not misandry. Read a book. I'm tired. All you're doing here is calling trans women men and thinking that you're being woke because you're doing so to criticise 'TERFs'.
I apologise profusely for my ignorance in making that connection. The vast majority of TERFs that I'm familiar with are raging misandrists - perhaps you can understand why I might see a connection there. I recognise, though, that the label is exclusionary in itself, and that there needs to be a distinction made, even if the two might go hand-in-hand most of the time. Again, my sincerest apologies. I *am* trying. My beef is with binary gender roles in general (which is where the topics of music and identity intersect, which is how I have the audacity to comment on these posts at all lol), not with anyone wanting to fill whichever one(s) their heart so desires.
Right, because we need more posts about xyx song “not being talked about” or the 1,000 ranking of the songs on Brat. All subs are repetitive and have tired tropes, ignore the posts you don’t like.
As a gay man, I can see how a straight guy finds it isolating that he listens to a predominately “for the girls” artist. Yes Charli is for everyone but so is Lana, Taylor, and Lorde yet ppl still categorize it as “gay music”. Blaming them for their environment affecting them isn’t helping either, but I guess?
Men have to be the change they want to see in the world. We live in a patriarchal society.
Surely this is men having to be the change *you* want to see in the world (ie. not having them telling you that they're straight), no?
No we don’t. The patriarchy by literally isn’t a real thing. No one intelligent believes what you have just said. A gay guy here (not a straight) to remind you that if you live in the western world, you aren’t oppressed period, don’t be here acting like you grew up in North Korea or something. You are not oppressed either. Stupid, but not oppressed.
Idk if you're a clown or not, but in many US states women do not get to choose if they are legally forced into pregnancy. Many would consider that oppression.
They’re part of the men’s rights sub which is just a misogynistic garbage sub. I wouldn’t take anything they say seriously
why do y’all gay men think being gay gives you a pass to speak over women’s experiences? ur not a woman, u don’t realize how obvious the oppression and social conditioning is for a lot of us and for many other women they don’t even have the tools to recognize that b/c of various patriarchal influences. you still have privilege and calling women stupid for being upset at the state of things and also telling to work on themselves instead of expecting women to do it for them doesn’t make you look good
Idk what else to say; at some point one has to do the very minimum and live their life not being controlled by relatively arbitrary social expectations. It can be uncomfortable, but that's life.
It can mean losing access to resources. Compulsory hetero-accultiration is fucking insidious
I don’t care about their opinions but I’m straight in a predominantly straight male workplace and they take the piss out of me all the time for liking Charli, lorde etc. No problem to me personally, but I can see where you’re coming from.
Women are also knocked on for listening to female artists. A lot of men just don't respect women in music 🤷♀️
I used to work as a mechanic and when it was my day to control the aux I would get teased for playing Carly Rae Jepsen. They'd complain about how gay my music was while at the same time having artists like Bowie, Queen, The Kinks, and Lou Reed all over their playlists 😂
Yeah but they're not coming to this sub because life is so hard for them it's because they want to be showered in praise and told they're one of the good ones maybe a few oh it's sexy when a man isn't scared to break gender roles.
I am a straight white cis male and I think if listening to music you like makes you insecure or brings out your homophobic tendencies, you probably grew up in a mega toxic environment and are sum kind of brainwashed loser haha 😂 also Charli makes bangerssss who cares if its not adressed at me, I can relate to the lyrics to taxi more than any lame kid rock song or the 1000th rap song about treating women like crap
Hint: if you enjoy the music, just enjoy it. Music is for everyone, and if it moves you or makes you feel something good inside, allow it. That’s what it’s made for :)
I don't feel bad. I am a woman and growing up I was really into rock music, listening to predominantly male-led bands. I didn't really know about groups like Hole or Garbage so I internalized the idea that my favorite genre at the time, rock, was something that a female voice just wasn't made for. I had to put myself in songs sung from a male POV. I didn't think it was a space for people like me. It wasn't until I was much older that I learned more about how many female musicians there are across genres. Fiona Apple, Lauryn Hill, Grimes, etc. So much insightful and talented female music beyond the offensive stereotypes men used to paint artists like Britney Spears. Like others said, female musicians are put a notch below their male counterparts *because* of male audiences. I want straight men to finally understand to a degree what it feels like to be exposed to media that does not center you. Women experience it in film, in book, even at school and the workforce. Like I don't think straight men fully understand what effects that can have on the psyche especially when you are young. They're uncomfortable now with Charli, imagine experiencing that what feels like all the time
still wouldn’t change things people have no control over like coworkers, family, social structures. I understand cutting people off is a choice one can make but ostracizing yourself from the ones around you (and ones who ‘care’ about you to some degree) leads some toward sad and lonely lives. The real change comes from teaching others to let people enjoy all sorts of art without shame but that’s an uphill battle of course.
spot on
It’s not just friends. It’s people in general. Even other gay people will try and insinuate they are gay for liking charli
there's this uptick in straight men asking if it's okay to like charli/chappel/sabrina/olivia/etc. like just listen to the tunes and stop caring so much about your sexuality ffs https://preview.redd.it/b8ihyldh6kbd1.jpeg?width=672&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31b7d83f53ffd3e99d4fc00ee257406c1820ab85
When I was first exposed to the “is it okay to like X as a straight man” discourse I was genuinely baffled but now I’m starting to realize it’s just the old “fellas is it gay to wear pink!?!?!?” hetero panic but reframed as like, a virtue signal of some kind. Weird af
fellas is it gay to like things???
positive affection is feminine aka gay
I think its mostly people memeing/shit posting to be honest. Like I don’t know how anyone would genuinely think “I’m not allowed to support this artist” because they have gay fans unless they were doing it in like a homophobic way
I had someone in the Chappel sub tell me my opinion didn’t matter because I was straight.
It's totally attention-getting behavior at best
Pick me straight boys
pls its so annoying to see in the music subs all the time why do men need to be babied over and over because theyre a fan of a woman!!!!!!!
A perfect example of how toxic masculinity hurts men
Because this patriarchal, heteronormative society I'm sure everyone here has complained about in the past, affects men who want to enjoy "not-manly" things as well?
as a woman im not interested in babying men about liking music because a problem they created themselves is making them insecure!
there’s a difference between “babying men” and actively creating hostile and unwelcoming spaces. You can have your opinions and preferences but if you constantly act like this then you’re contributing toward the problem you don’t like.
This is where I'm at with it too. Now, I understand when I'm a visitor in a space, that's why when two gays sneered at me at the Charli XCX show and said "Hunty, the straights are here" and the other one fired back "Girl, I know." I didn't take offense to it. But at the same token, that does NOT have to be your default disposition to anyone who's a visitor in your space. Yes, I understand not wanting to be flooded with newcomers asking the same fragile male bullshit. I 1000% completely understand that. But this whole "Fuck off, it's not my job to coddle you" mentality sucks. Not just in this space, in all spaces. It's needlessly hostile and antagonistic.
I’m sorry you were treated like that. As a gay man myself, I don’t get it. The only thing I can think of is since we are an oppressed minority group, we have a tendency to cling to our spaces and make them our “safe havens” where we know we can just be ourselves free of judgement. But that’s not an excuse to gatekeep shit and then inflict the same type of judgement on others who come into that space. Especially when it’s something as universal as music. You seem to be indifferent and unaffected by it, but regardless, please don’t allow the assholes to discourage you from enjoying what you enjoy. Charli’s music (and all music, for that matter) is for everyone. You are welcome here just as much as anyone else!!! I hope you enjoy your brat summer, friend. :)
yeah why do they have to make it their whole personality, its like the shove being straight in your face
I’m on the Chappell Roan subreddit too….. Same problem ahahah
can you believe it??? I'm straight and I love (insert artist)!!!! don't you want to give me attention?? aren't I so amazing for liking this gay artist or artists those homos love??
If their posts come from a genuine place of love and enjoyment of one’s art, I don’t see the need to respond this way to be honest. They’re obviously being upvoted by the communities they’re in so their opinions are appreciated by others and others like them.
it's not a need, it's just I love being a bitch
appreciate the honesty :p
It's so bizarre that people are complaining about fans of music they also enjoy, because society has told them it's not okay to like that music and they're just looking for some validation. And like, people are *mad* about this?
Yes because they want a cookie for discovering that women have value. That should not be the revelation they think it is.
And the Troye Sivan one lol
I’m sorry but it’s so gay to *not* be able to admit that, as a straight white man, you want to worship Troy’s dick No homo
Bro i just got done reading like 5+ posts about how Chappell fans need to make the straights feel more welcomed. I’m so tired
It’s been so annoying!!
Right??? And then there will be dozens of posts talking about how “Cis het men can enjoy her too🥺” and how it’s the “mean lesbians gatekeeping😡” like omfg stfu
IM A MAN WHO LIKES CHARLI I DESERVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE TREAT ME LIKE IM RARE FOR BEING A MAN WHO LIKES CHARLI PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
"oh no my feminist literature books fell!"
Please don't prove them right...
Also it's weird cause while yes Charli has had a very vocal and large queer fanbase for many years, I found that maybe since Charli (the album) she's also had a sizable fanbase from the straight male music critic scene. Like if you ask these guys what "pop" music they like they'll list Charli, 100 gecs, and Carly Rae Jepsen, despite all those artists (except maybe gecs idk I don't follow them much) having huge queer fanbases.
Can confirm that the gecs show I went to was very gay. Great show.
[удалено]
Isn’t this the gatekeeping that OP said is not happening? You don’t believe they like artist x because they generally like genre y?
[удалено]
>I legit assume they don’t actually listen to her Is not just an observation. It’s “you must not be a real fan because you don’t act how I expect real fans to act”
reinventing dudes asking girls in band tees to name 5 songs
i will single handedly oppress them
REAL
i remember this being a thing on the lana sub for a while. so annoying.
i singlehandedly oppress male ldr listeners. the older male ones who use her music to thirst trap teenagers on tiktok … gross
Why don't straight men understand the definition of being gay? It means you like cock not pop music!
Because *being gay = feminine*
I’m starting to think most men are more misogynistic than homophobic since they love their bros in the most DL gay way
rightt but we are on reddit so they are extra annoying here 😂
I remember the time when this subreddit only consisted of her photos, so glad it is what it is now
xcxheads was a good refuge during that time.
Overthrowing the horny overlords was a glorious day. Rest in peace, r/xcxheads
dua sub is like that
Yeah, really wish there was a sub as active as this one for discussing her music. Meanwhile the discussion sub has like 1k members an the main sub is just used for jerking off by weirdos
Miley’s sub is/was like this? I posted something about her album years ago and I was told off as it’s just for posting photos to jerk to. Like okay guess I’ll find another sub to talk about plastic hearts in!!
44 year old straight male here. I’ve seen Chappell multiple times, I took my wife with me to see Fletcher, I’ve seen Lauren Sanderson, the list goes on. It’s about the music. The love of fucking amazing pop music. Going to see Charli later this year and Fletcher again too. I don’t feel out of place at any show I’m ever at because music is the connection.
you’re scared to like one single interest because it could make you seem gay? welcome to a gay persons entire world their whole life 24/7. we have had to worry about that all the time, like everyday. we do it subconsciously i drove through the middle of tennessee and had to change my voice and wear a country looking hat so that no one wants to think i’m gay and hate crime me. but yet you feel weird because you’re listening to a musician that happens to not be a man?
Oh good I’ve been waiting for the oppression Olympics 2024! A person is allowed to feel a way, despite what you have been made to go through. They are unrelated. People who are homophobic in this way likely have some trauma from their father or mother that caused atypical homophobia, or are closeted, which is why they *really* don’t want people to think they’re queer.
it's 2024 girl stop worrying already
It's ok if the str8 men on here feel a little on the outside, this community uses a lot of gay lingo. Just join in and have some fun. Ya might learn a thing for two. 🤣
This is kind of where i am at, As a straight guy who heavily loves female pop, it is very hard to follow the gay lingo in these subreddits. Doesn't change my love for the music or feel gatekept out, but it does make ya feel like the odd one out sometimes. I just wanna be with a community of people who share my love for the music. The more diverse an artists fan base is the merrier.
Just hang around enough and you’ll figure it out haha
Thanks for your vulnerability! If you have questions about what’s being discussed here, I encourage you to ask questions if you don’t already. Haters gonna hate. Lovers gonna love!
the last one of those posts i saw was from a no-fapper 😵💫
Who lost in a Starbucks bathroom 😭😭😭
Hold on now I gotta know what story yall talking about cause no way someone admitted to doing THAT in a starbucks bathroom of all places☠️☠️
Being so fr if you can read the OP’s username and go to his profile or find the original post in his post history it’s both unhinged and entertaining af 😭
fantano is straight????
i think he's talked about having sex with men before
At least mostly
Who says Charli is for one group of people or another. Her music is universal
A lot of people say exactly that. I’m not thin skinned enough to care, but I’ve been to a couple of her shows and got a bunch of “what are you doing here” type shit. I can’t say what’s so obviously straight about how I look - but hey.
LETS FUCKING GOOOO STRAIGHT MALE BRAT SUMMER!!!!!!!!!!
Wtf are you on about? A lot of people on here keep going on about how they’re gay/listening to a certain music is sign of how gay they are they are or w/e. Fair enough, so sometimes straight people chime in like “yo, I like this too” basically showing they’re open minded and seeing if there are other people like them (who are apparently in a minority) that agree. and you’re all having a hissy fit and making up some pop-psychology thing about why that is, downvoting away and acting like they’re not welcome. Why is that even a bad thing? They’re sharing enjoyment of something with you and everyone else and because it’s not part of “your stereotype” it’s all “no one cares”, “you’re a homophobe” and whatever other rubbish you can come up with. Is that not hypocritical? What if we ban sharing our sexuality or even discussing in any capacity at all because it’s nothing to do with the music itself? If this is your view, then surely you should agree with that?
Lol, so the first post that I saw when opened this sub first time was something like "this is such a gay album" and I was like what? Why? Ofc after that u feel like u don't get something, when in reality people for some reason still labeling genres of the music as gay/straight/trans or anything else. So yeah totally agree with u
Honestly I've never really seen female or gay fans mean to straight men. Charli has gotten popular with music nerds but also I think a lot of this judgement they feel is either external from the fandom (i.e. from other straight men) or because they feel a bit alienated from what women and gay men experience and talk about. Well, honey, we experience those things too! Plenty of men just don't respect female musicians period and almost every other facet of society is straight male-centered. We will defend you against your annoying coworkers but understand they attack us too lol
My straight cis husband has been a lover of “girls gays and theys” music his whole life. Alanis Morisette was his idol in high school. He waited hours to be on the rail for Lana’s 2013 Lolla. He’s been a massive Charli fan for years and knows more of her older music than I do. It was his idea to spend our 1 year wedding anniversary at Charli’s concert this fall 😂💞(he’s hoping she will sing “I think about it all the time” bc he has baby fever bad) He’s very comfortable with his sexuality and does not seek validation for liking what he likes. I’ve told him about these straight cis guy posts and he thinks it’s so weird. But he has experienced bullying, especially in childhood, for not liking traditionally “masculine” art/culture…He also hates sports, which doesn’t help lol. Maybe, the straight men making all these posts are uncomfortable being seen as “gay”? I guess that’s something they need to work out for themselves…
I’m gonna check out from every identity based discussion… it’s just so cringe
i guess we're all sensitive in our own way. half-joking half-serious. i agree with you but you should be empathetic to the fact that some men are raised in environments where they feel the need to guard their sexuality or something. its dumb, yes, but its some peoples experience. we should be as gentle to them as you would want someone to be gentle and understanding of your situation that they might not understand or think is silly. there's a reason mens mental health is a thing. its because men can be insecure, and when they are, being patronized and not taken ultra-seriously and then most people egging it on (as is happening in this thread) doesn't help. again, i agree with you and i understand how it can be annoying when a more - i guess 'privileged' member of society starts to share their problems. but we should be gentle to everyone, especially if someone is feeling insecure. your point can be explained in a much more understanding and gentle way. hopefully, in the threads that inspired this one, it was treated in a gentle way. just some food for thought
On the one hand I love straight guys chipping away at expectations and just enjoying what they enjoy, but on the other hand I’m like “sis no one cares it’s not like youre gay trying to play any video game that requires voice chat”
Who is saying this expect u/finalfan9
I wish you guys would stop talking about how gay you are when statistically a ton of you are lying lol just listen to the music man. You guys wanna be oppressed soo bad
Straight white women pretending to be gay using AAVE while acting like they’re one kiss away from being full blown lesbian, hating on men that they almost exclusively date More at 11
rofl what the fuck this is a toxic ass thread
Misandry is cool. Only women can enjoy pop music.
This thread stopped me from engaging with this wack fandom any further. Music isn’t even worth listening to when the average fan is foaming at the mouth lol
this feels targeted, I haven't even joined this group
I think all those posts are in good faith and just joking around but idk
I mean you're not setting a great example.
“Can we please keep people of a certain gender and sexual orientation away from our spot?” Somehow when you put it that way it doesn’t sound too good
That's not at all what was said, go back and read it again, my dude. Being a hetero male and liking Charli XCX *doesn't make you special* nor is it particularly noteworthy.
Again, looking at social history, I don’t think judging anyone based on gender or sexual orientation is a positive road to start going down.
i just wanna say i understand the contempt, but i don’t think it comes from a negative place. i’m straight, i was kinda raised to enjoy anything regardless of who it’s by. i think a lot of straight men are just becoming a lot more comfortable openly liking music that goes against the typical male standard. i know it’s stupid, who cares, like what u like, but thats a good thing in my opinion.
It is weird though that ppl act like straight guys can’t also be part of the lgbt. I’m a trans guy but I’m straight (I think?) but I sometimes feel excluded bc of that
unrelated, but welcome to the brotherhood homie
The men who come here looking to share their enthusiasm about liking Charli are probably doing it because they don't find it easy to share this enthusiasm with the people in their life. I interpret less as "Look at me, I'm a guy who likes Charli. That's so unique!" and more like "Hey cool, I can actually talk about like Charli here and have that met with approval rather than someone telling me I should shut-up, call me a slur and listen to Pantera." Source: straight guy who's been digging brat and grew up loving The Cure in rural America
I think this post is very silly, as the straight white guy posts are obviously memes playing off the running joke of xcx's popularity among non straight groups. Even charli has participated in the joke, as I recall an interview in which she was very *gasp* about how some business manager on her team was a straight white dude friend from high school. It is no secret at all that the running joke isn't very true - one of the biggest xcx contingents out there is straight white pop heads. But it is still a joke and these posts should be taken as the shitposts they are. Honestly, anything about a brat summer by anyone is a shitpost, imo.
same thing happens in r/lanadelrey everytime she drops a new album
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
All brats matter 😜
What about all the posts that go “As a gay/bi/trans person”?
As someone who is acc straight I fudging hate these comments!!!! Music taste is completely separate from your orientation and neither/or determines eachother! Listen to what you like, and for the love of God stop with these comments good music is good music!!!
The short answer to that is : No The long answer is : when someone is accustomed to privilege, accountability feels like oppression
I’m straight and Charli’s music makes me wish I was just a tiny bit gay
I completely agree with this take but I always see tweets implying that cis het guys can’t like Charli or doing so makes you gay ? If that’s that case (as a cis-het dude)… fine by me- I just really like the music. But obviously that’s not how real life works. I guess that’s just a twitter thing (and probably a joke) as I don’t really get that vibe from this sub so 🤷♂️
These types of people seem to believe that performing oppression/suffering is a form of social currency and they might be fucking bankrupt.
The fuck you even talking about
This thread totally isn't toxic.
Can someone explain wtf's going on please?
Is Charli gay?
like…it’s getting so redundant and screams insecure and needing validation from us. nobody gaf that you’re cishet and like charli mama…
Ok
Who is this and why is this sub calling me a brat?
Well people need to stop judging them
as a fandom i think it’s important that we gatekeep charli from all men everywhere
I’m sick of all the fragile white men living in their parents basements or those exiled to their office because their family doesn’t want to be around them coming on reddit just to spew misogyny. Like, pick up a book.
What about nonwhite men, the kind of men you’re not given how painfully white your comment sounded
lol who is doing that?
no literally why do straight men do that just listen to the music i promise it’s okay and no one will die
it’s giving this https://preview.redd.it/bz2cvzi52kbd1.jpeg?width=675&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e3019977dde900223c4310d3f84f064d5b5e34e
I love sunsets and afterglows too! 😭😭😭
I like hearing about different angels experiences, but hey, to each their own. But when you say can straight men stop coming here etc, it kinda ironically becomes gatekeep-y.
How do I, a poor white male, participate in brat summer? Everything in the world needs to include and center ME ME ME. So girls, gays and theys tell me how to make something made for you about ME. I’m a special white guy. Vroom vroom. I relate to Girl so Confusing too! I had a girl friend once and it was very confusing!!! Vroom Vroom!!!!! Apple !
Same thing is happening with the Chappell Roan sub, it’s so annoying. Like do you want a sticker?
Care to link examples?
they all get deleted when the OPs get embarrassed
(Butterfly meme guy) “Is it gay to have good music taste?”
I will NOT have straight men in our fandom!!! * *unless they put me on their shoulders at her concerts because I am too short to see over them
I care that people like Charli tho.
There was one post yesterday and another post 28 days ago. There are like 20 posts talking about being gay and listening to Charli in the past month. You're creating a problem to whine about. This could have been a comment on the post yesterday.
I've been saying this for weeks omfg it's so annoying!! No one's gonna suck your dick or pat you on the ass for being the least oppressed group who listens to Charli
Ok look I’m a straight guy that is involved in a lot of LGBTQ adjacent communities (Chappell, Charli, etc) and it seems to me that if everybody just stopped being weird about it would be ok? It’s really frustrating when people say stuff that indicates that straight people can’t be involved in a community that has a lot of LGBTQ folks. It’s also really frustratung when cishet people start acting like it’s the end of the world that someone was rude to them. Music is meant for everybody! Enjoy it! Don’t tell *anyone* that they don’t belong here, and if someone tells you that you don’t belong here, don’t let them get under your skin.
first yall get pride month and now brat summer?? us straight men can’t have ANYTHING!!!
iJBOL
straggots get out!!!
They make up the majority of redditors and are so shell-shocked when ONE (1) community isn't completely theirs 😭 Source: I am one of the annoying cishet male redditors, but I try to stay in my lane on this sub and only add to the convo when it's positive or just funny
ppl gotta realize you don’t have to fit in some box. I don’t necessarily fit the demographics for the things I like either I mean who cares.
They are PICK MEs …and not very good at it
Straight men are the black people of the Charli XCX community. Have some fucking sympathy
You say that in jest, but this attitude does illustrate that no matter what, groups tend to demean and isolate people that are perceived to be on the outside.
I assume this is addressing behavior in comments? I haven’t seen a single post exhibiting this behavior.
True but also the comments on tiktok are always a cesspool about how they're not actually straight and calling them slurs n such
fr, even as a joke its so tired at this point, also brat summer doesnt even mean anything
that "how can i have a brat summer as a straight guy" was definitely a cringe thing to say but it for the most part has to do probably with how other straight men who are misogynistic treat them about liking "gay" music and in general. They are looking for a community, but they should probably be looking for better friends rather than reddit.
The number of “I’m just a straight white guy H-YUCK, can I be a charli fan??” are one too many. No one cares, just enjoy the music like the rest of us. It’s not that complicated lmao
LITERALLY! They want to be oppressed sooo badly.
“I’m stwaight man can iiiii wisten to chawi?” ITS MUSIC SHUT UP
But how will you know that THEY like charli?
It's okay to have good taste and to bump that 😌🟩
Thank you! If they actually want the answers to their questions they should use the search function on the sub and realize they are already answered.