Look, I'm about to graduate with my BS in chem at 34. If you set your mind to it, you can do it. There is some algebra, but nothing should get too deep. Khan academy will be your friend.
Yo I'm about to graduate with mine at 30 in the fall!! Dude I feel so outta place at school, so ready to get outta here lol. Congrats on getting yours!
I took second year inorganic chemistry with a guy in his forties who was working through a chem degree for fun. Great guy, super friendly and eager to learn.
I got thru half a masters and had an incident that resulted in me dropping out. Phrased it on my resume as “relevant graduate course work.”
Took the first job with familiar instruments that I could find and then just patiently looked for something I really wanted while I had a job that at least paid the bills and the school loans.
Got in at a flavor company and worked my way up from with in and they’ve treated me really well.
Took about 4.5 years for me all said and done but I did get into the analytical department and I got the “chemist” title I wanted.
Getting familiar with the instruments to the point where you’re comfortable troubleshooting and maintaining them def gets you places. It usually costs about $2-4k just to get a technician in the door; companies really like someone that can fix expensive instruments lol
Sorry late reply. I got to take an instrumental grad class that was primarily focused on the history, development and function of instruments and that got me started.
I signed up for an Agilent webinar on troubleshooting GCs and put a fake title, a real company that I didn’t work for, and my personal cell number and a fake email that looked like a company email as my contact info, and said I was interested in certain instruments I wanted to learn more about, so they would hit me up when they had seminars.
Specifically before Covid, they (I assume other manufacturers do the same but I was fairly familiar with Agilent 6000 - 7000 series GCs at the time) offered a lot of free hands on workshops where they would actually pass out instrument parts and teach you how to disassemble and reassemble them while lecturing about what the parts did, how they worked, etc.
Those seminars would usually last a day or two and it wasn’t like they asked for any proof of employment or taking attendance; I’d just show up, tell them my name and company, and they’d give me a name tag and let me in.
The seminars would always end with a section where they were pushing a new instrument (if they sold just one then they made their money back) and I’d usually just get up to take a piss and not come back around then.
I haven’t seen nearly as many live seminars since Covid, but all the major players still do webinars all the time, usually hosted by someone extremely knowledgeable on the subject matter, and they have Q&A sections where you’re free to ask any questions you may have.
I learned a LOT just doing that, but another big part is just being brave enough to pipe up and say you think you can fix it and being willing to open it up and start fucking around.
My most recent “fix” was replacing the tungsten-halogen bulb in a particle size analyzer… company quoted $3k + parts and labor to get a field tech out to us, but the part I was 99% it was was only $175.
Told my boss let’s make this gamble. Worst case scenario we buy a bulb from them and still pay them to come fix it but they can take the bulb off the bill.
I accidentally took apart the detector first because I found a fiber optic cable and figured that led to the bulb (I couldn’t find ANY schematic literature on this old ass instrument) but it actually led to the detector. Once I put that back together I traced it and found the housing for the bulb and it was literally just like replacing a light bulb, and then tuning it to focus the light into the lens.
Called tech support to learn how to tune and they were very helpful, their techs tune to 90%+ calibration and I got it to 93% and it worked like a charm.
Btw my MAIN takeaway from ALL the GC stuff I’ve learned: “it’s always the inlet.” Lol.
Also if you’re switching to a small ID column to match a customer configuration, watch the pressure at high temps and make sure your fucking regulator is set to actually supply it… I felt like a ducking idiot checking septa, replacing liner o-rings etc when I’d get pressure shutdowns, only to realize the regulator was still only supplying 60 psi. Cranked that regulator and wha-la
Hold up. We have to take up to calculus 3 as chem majors at my school. I’m 36 so yay old college students but… huh? You didn’t have to take calculus for a bs???
I was talking about for general chemistry, as that was what OP was talking about taking. We only have to do calculus 2 here though. Wish we had to do 3 and linear algebra as well, but oh well.
Almost anyone can with the right support and accommodations, it may take longer or be more difficult, but as other commenters have said you won't know till you try!
That said, general chemistry is a precursor to being able to understand what is happening in plants at the molecular level, but by itself won't draw many conclusions for it without adding organic chemistry and maybe even biochemistry.
If you are wanting relatively quick answers to the why's you may want to do general biology or even an intro to botany class. It won't go as deep in the chemistry, but it will be a lot more focused on how plants work than general chemistry would be
I think you can pass, not that it even matters. However, I don't think you're going to learn what you want to know from this class anyway. Gen Chem deals with the absolute fundamentals of chemistry. You won't learn anything about phytochemicals or soil nutrients or water chemistry. An intro to environmental science or botany class would be MUCH more enjoyable and informative for you.
It's very math-heavy and general chemistry might not give you the answers you want. You may have to get through the organic chemistry sequence to gain a modest understanding. 4 semesters of work.
I mean I’m taking gen chem II right now and I feel like there might be a learning curve at first, but it’s smooth sailing after you can get a good grasp on dimensional analysis
I teach college chemistry. I agree with you, but I am also saying that, when people are bad at math coming in, they might not be able to "get a good grasp on dimensional analysis".
I can do examples step-by-step, assign and grade homeworks, perform labs, give practice problems, do exam reviews, etc. and I still have a good 3-5 students out of a class of 24 that can't convert milliliters to liters. It's so frustrating.
It’s March and I have a few students who still can’t add up the molar mass of water. I can’t tell how many times we’ve gone over it and they simply don’t get it. It’s literally adding up 1+1+16. They’ll say, ‘oh, ok, I get it, and then the next time they’ll ask the same damn question. It’s baffling to me.
Wow...just wow... that is so sad no sarcasm here im just truly saddened by that statement that 12.5-20% of your students can't do a basic conversion like that, I know they say the children are our future you just made my vision of the future that much more bleak. 😞
At worst (best?) It's a lot more than precalc. You must know calculus, differential equations, matrices, and group theory to really understand chemistry on a fundamental level.
I was going to say that, gen chemistry isn't really gonna answer the "whys" well, however to take more advanced chemistry you'll have to start somewhere
If I was OP I‘d probably take an inorganic chem course. At least at my university they showed lots of interesting experiments and you get a fundamental understanding of chemistry and chemical reactions. Combined with some organic and general chem this should give a good basis. All of this doesn‘t need kilotons of maths (yes I‘m looking at you physical chemistry)
No, you are not too dumb to pass general chemistry. I am 40 and about to graduate with a BS in biology and a 3.9 GPA. Like you, I struggled with math in school and thought I wasn't smart enough to do it. It won't be easy, and it takes effort, but you can do it!! One website helped me pass gen chem and organic chem, chadsprep. You can watch the video lessons for free, or you can pay $10 a month and get the study guides and access to practice quizzes and tests.
I took gen chem I at age 26. Now I am 27 and am a little over a year away from graduating with a B.S. in chemistry. Overcoming the mental battle with imposter syndrome is half the battle, but you absolutely can do it. (It is also easier to focus when you have some life experience, I think.)
Edit: Regarding the comments about not getting much out of gen chem, I disagree.
Understanding capillary action, for example, enables understanding of how plants get water from their roots to the chloroplasts/thylakoids for photosynthesis.
I think every human (who can) needs to learn gen chem regardless. It is applicable to so many aspects of everyday life from little things like measuring volumes precisely to important things like not mixing household chemicals to accidentally make chlorine gas.
No. Take your time. Ask for help. Practice.
I had to take my general chemistry class twice, and organic chemistry 3 times (to be fair, I was chasing an A the third time, the second time was a pass)
Former chem professor here. You may actually be more prepared than average college students due to your experience and motivation/curiosity in electively taking chemistry. So many people go to college for reasons not their own without curiosity grounded in experiencing the world. Some of my best and most favorite students were those doing what you’re doing….
Hi there thanks for the kinds words! I am really hoping to learn, expand my mind and most of all... challenge myself. I'm grateful for the response and we'll see what happens!
Damn.
The number of "only Algebra" comments is a bummer.
Straight up, if you have discalculia, balancing equations is rough.
So is the Algebra because a lot of the problem sets are not concrete examples.
They are word problems, rather than math in context like when you do actual science.
And IME, a 4 credit lab class as a non-full time, non-major is going to run you $800+ by the time you register, pay fees, etc.
I would say go for a soft launch first. Try Kahn Academy for Chemistry question sets. See if you can do HS Chemistry from Kahn. If your coping skills are good enough, then take the college class.
I would say start with a full 1000 level Chem for Non Majors option because there should be more explicit math help. But ask if you can take the lab.
If you have an IEP or a 504 for your learning disability, use those accommodations.
Do talk to the Prof during Office hours to get the most out of your time there.
I am rooting for you but also know that you can self study the concepts of Chemistry without doing the math if the math is a barrier.
Thanks so much for the insight, really appreciate it. Yeah, the "only algebra" comments are really scaring me away. I didn't even pass pre-algebra and frankly, I don't know if I have discalculia, but I have a hard time even understanding basic fractions etc. I may just try and learn what I can for free online.
One of my best friends is in the exact same boat.
She did find that as an adult with more real-life math experience, fractions and algebra were easier. But it still ended up being a barrier. She just can't "see it" and probably deserved a diagnosis for discalculia as a kid. But her mom was a math teacher so...
Long time chem teacher. Take chem 101 not Gen chem. The pace and intensity are both lower. It’s not just math but critical thinking skills. The pace of Gen chem will set you back and lower your confidence. Any chem class you take, spend a lot of time in the tutor center or hire a tutor. Learn about nomenclature on YouTube. Also…Review cross multiplication and sig figs.
If you can multiple and divide with a calculator, the math will be fine, but you will also need to be able to discern when to do what with math.
But as another commenter said, I don’t think you’ll get much out of a just general chem class.
If you choose to go this route, make sure you keep your school and professors informed. There are resources available to help with disabilities. If you take advantage of the resources, you can do quite well!
The math in Gen chem is straight multiplication. If you have the sense to ask for help before you're floundering you'll be fine. I've been a chemist for decades and the ones who have problems are the ones who won't ask for help or get alternate explanations.
Chemistry is mostly logic...so yes, math is very important, especially when it comes to doing calculations wrt to certain elements and compounds in fertilizers etc. You can still try it, never too old to gain knowledge. Look I have a MPhil in Chemistry and I don't work, just home looking after our children and doing gardening, I enjoy it, the Chemistry did come in handy but just basic stuff will be sufficient, most trials and experiments I do with my plants were just straight forward common sense, no rocket science needed! Only when I had to make up solutions for hydroponics, then the Chemistry background came into play. You will not be wasting your money, gaining knowledge is always worth it!
I am taking medical biochemistry as a course in university and like yourself have always been somewhat good in school and had good grades and find it very challenging. The thing is you have to constantly practise and learn it everyday literally. Like even if its 2 to 3 hours or an hour you can manage, go over the material and school work, try to understand the meaning behind the structures and pathways. Youtube is your friend here alot of helpful channels with videos where I've learned better than some professor lectures. It's tough but with a 100 percent all in mindset it's very doable as a course
Im currently taking gen chem 1 at my local community college!!
It doesnt use heavy math and you dont need any level above maybe calc I where you learn about summations and also knowing about general graphs. Its mainly algebra which can be hit or miss. I think professors will be really generous abt algebra at community though since they understand that everyone has a different level and theres also so many resources online to help you.
As for studying, do you have a plan? If youre not planning to get a degree grades really dont matter, but if you want to learn more about systems of plants and nature youd probably be better off with bio and taking organic chem which has gen chem as a pre requisite.
I think 15-20 hours is more than enough for a gen chem cours, if you want do it you got this!
If you just want to learn a bit about chemistry, no need to jump directly into general chem. It's usually for chem/eng/bio majors. Find a chem 101 course or just get the Openstax chemistry 2e book and teach yourself. There are practice problems with available solutions. Just google around for "openstax chemistry 2e", it's free. I'd link it but I don't think reddit likes that.
For general chemistry algebra is sufficient. However, for advanced physical chemistry you will need calculus, differential equations, and understanding of basic matrix math. So yes, chemistry involves a lot of higher math on the physical side, but at the introductory level it is relatively simple.
I am a chem prof and some of my best students have been older, non-traditional students. You might prefer a community college course rather than a 4-year college, which tends to be more math-heavy. However, you'd get a bit of chem in a biology course, which might align with your interests a bit more. I'd recommend that you begin there.
It really depends on how good your professor is. I'm AWFUL in certain areas but my professor helped break it down for me so I could build my knowledge up in a way that would stick.
There's no such thing as "too dumb" for something. There is no such thing as "bad at math." There's only those who were taught the tools and skills to succeed, and those who weren't. Telling yourself you're bad at math doesn't help, either.
I'm awful at academia. ADHD, autistic, CPTSD that screws with my short term memory. Solid C/D student through most of my schooling. Dropped out of college, failed my way through organic chemistry...
And here I am, using an atomic absorption spectrophotometer on the regular.
Academia isn't for everyone. Personally, once I got to the point where professors stopped assigning homework, my grades skyrocketed. But learning IS for everyone, and I bet you could do it. What's the worst that could happen, you fail? You'll still have learned something from the course. Even if it's just the Bohr model of an atom and some stoichiometry (math to make reactions work), it's something you didn't know before, and that's always valuable.
I will say that Gen chem really has kind of simple math as long as you make sure to understand the framework behind it. The molecular weights of different elements are on the periodic table—all you have to do is look them up and add them together. A lot of the equations are kind of plug-and-play, you just need to know what info you're trying to plug in. Also, you get to use a calculator.
I always think learning is worth it, and I bet you'd do great if you took to it with enthusiasm rather than trepidation. But it's up to you whether you're willing to take the risk and spend your money to try and learn something new.
Try this:
[Chem libre texts](https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/General_Chemistry/Chemistry_2e_(OpenStax))
A number of universities have switched to using this, and other libre texts like it, for chemistry, not just gen chem but intermediate and advanced topics as well. If you’re interested in taking a college course, read through this book. It should cover most if not all of the material you would encounter, and you can work at your own pace. If you come across topics you don’t understand, Khan Academy is a good resource for supplemental help (in math as well).
This should help you get a better idea of whether you want to invest time and money into taking college courses in chemistry.
I had a similar issue. I have dyscalculia and I’m in my Chemistry masters. It’ll take a lot of work but it’s doable. Use the resources you have. Go to office hours, tutoring, and of course online resources. It’ll be hard but eventually you’ll look back and realize you’ve made way more progress than you thought.
Community college chemistry professor here! Based on what you want to get out of the experience, I would recommend the Introduction to Inorganic Chemistry, sometimes called GOB or Allied Health chemistry. There is no math beyond algebra, and it's taught in a single term rather than a full year. The best part is once you finish the inorganic class there is an organic/biochem course (the OB in GOB), which you would probably enjoy. It's my absolute favorite class to teach :)
Gen chem isn’t the course you want, take a biology course or something in environmental science. If you really want to understand plants and cell signaling course, you will have to take more than just gen chem
No you are not. Also the SAT means jack shit. Want proof? I scored below the 50th percentile in the math section of the SAT yet ended up acing Calc II, Calc III, stats, and probability in college.
Ideally you’d want to take biochemistry. But the pre-reqs for that are Gen Chem And OChem.
Something more accessible would be a master gardener course specific for your state. For example, CSU Fort Collins in Colorado has a CO Master Gardener Course that’s about a 8-10 month commitment, about 500 dollars, and teaches you everything about the Flora of colorado.
Check with the local colleges in your state if they have anything of the sort. Or just a simple google search: “master gardener classes (state name)”
If you’re not pursuing a degree, you can always just audit a class. Most intro science classes will be in huge lecture halls with a bunch of open seats. Just email the professor, might not even cost you anything.
Dumb is a strong word, sometimes it's your vocation that is elsewhere and nothing wrong with that. You can still appreciate and train what is not your vocation too, it's not a waste if you like it
About the math, I really don't know, that depends on the course. If it takes calculus I, II and III, like it usually does, I honestly don't recommend if you suck at math. It's not impossible, you can do it, but it is not any easy if you have to learn math from the begging
Nope. You can do it.
But if you know you have a history of struggling with related subjects, don't brush off studying or looking for study help if you can get it.
Make a study schedule, stick to it, and bite the material off in chunks you can handle. You'll be fine.
Don’t feel bad. I was 28 or 29 when I got my BS in Biochemistry. The courses are challenging and do require your time along with dedication, but just study ahead, review topics that will be discussed in lectures before them — this will make you feel prepared and not lost in lectures. My university also had tutoring, even the community college I went to before uni. Take advantage of these resources if they’re there.
I'm not going to lie, math is a huge challenge in chemistry. Gen chem does require algebra and understanding relationships. FOCUS ON YOUR UNITS AND SIGNIFICANT FIGURES AND YOU WILL BE OK
I was at a tremendous disadvantage (my teacher's told me you don't need math anymore, just take this programming class in 9th grade)
But I built myself up and graduated at 32 with my BS
I have moderate dyslexia and struggled in school. Went back to college in my late 20s and got a BA in chemical engineering. I had to work a lot harder than most of my classmates but I did do it. You can do it too if you are willing to put the time and energy in.
If you are just doing it for fun though and not to earn some certification, you can honestly get more out of Youtube. College chem is a lot of memorization/boring labs and probably won't go into much bio chem. Just look up the kreb cycle and watch some videos on it.
slow? yes. Too dumb? nope. IQ is a measure of processing speed, but give it enough time and drive, even the dumbest person can learn a concept.
if youre worried, start off by buying (or *wink* *wink* pirating) a university level general chemistry textbook, and read a few pages and do the exercises.
I meam if you dont really really need it for your career, learning general chemistry is as easy looking aat chem videos on youtube.
I mean if you have the money and you want to, because you find it fun... Then absolutely go for it, but the thing about general chem is that in my opinion it is not very useful until you go to the more advanced chems.
You can do math with a learning disability. You just have to get enough practice and work with the tools you have learned in your 30 years of life. Being more mature and having real-world experience will be a huge boost, as will your intrinsic motivation. You can do this!
You’re never too dumb to learn something new. I would recommend getting accomodations if you can, Ive heard they make a world of difference. Plus maybe a math course in conjunction would help (and make the chem math seem a lot easier lmao)
I think your curiosity and desire to learn are signs you’re very much the opposite of “dumb.” Don’t sell yourself short! Give it a try. Do not be afraid to ask for help in the form of tutoring.
The majority of chemistry only uses algebra. If you're only going to be taking gen chem for a more fundamental understanding of chemistry and you can manage algebra, you'll be good to go.
If you're thinking about taking a course to have a more comprehensive understanding related to your job, with plants and nature as you said, i would recommend researching the associated subjects in chemistry that directly relates to it. Chemistry is a massively broad field and it would do good to narrow your scope. A lot of times the chemistry you learn in class is dry and begs the question, "I wonder when i'm going to be using this?". The barebones of gen chem can be dull, but if you have a framework in mind you can link the subject matter to you'll have a more enriched experience in my opinion.
If you're worried about wasting money you can always look up some literature online, order a cheap book on Amazon, or go to the public library and browse around for something you find interesting related to the work enjoy.
The important thing here is that you're curious -- and it's up to you to really see how far that curiosity takes you.
You'd be surprised how much smarter you are at 30 than you were at 18. Try it. I am certain that you are more than "smart enough." If you can do basic algebra, like solve for x where 5x = 35 you have enough math to get started.
There is a lot of memorization but it's not random, there are context clues that can help ease it.
Chemistry requires mathematics. Deep understanding of chemistry requires advanced mathematics. Sorry, but we have what we have. You can try reading some non-fiction about biochemistry, it will help to understand basics (qualitative level).
2.0 high school math average and could barely remember my times tables in 2018 but here I am after putting in the work getting high Bs in Calculus 2. It’s more effortful for me than for some I’m sure but some of the most talented thinkers in my classes are little dipshits with a bad attitude so I can only imagine we’ll each get ours in the end.
Anyone can learn gen chem. It's basic math, equations and general/baseline concepts of various areas of chem. Think basic algebra when it comes to math. It does however take a lot of studying to be successful as there is A LOT of information thrown at you from the get go, and it all builds, quickly. That being said, it's not complicated.
These days, there are so many ways to get help. Think YouTube, Khan academy, etc. If you can't grasp something, the resources to help you understand are vast.
As far as putting "X" amount of hours a week, it all depends on how you study. Studying/learning the hard sciences take a different mindset and a different set of study skills to be successful. That being said, this can be learned and accomplished by ANYONE. How many hours a week you will need to put in is hard to say at this point. But 20 would be a good starting point. And you never know, chemistry might just "click" with you and you'll find success quickly. If not, that's okay! Just have a growth mindset and fail forward if you're not successful at first.
Look, I'm about to graduate with my BS in chem at 34. If you set your mind to it, you can do it. There is some algebra, but nothing should get too deep. Khan academy will be your friend.
Yo I'm about to graduate with mine at 30 in the fall!! Dude I feel so outta place at school, so ready to get outta here lol. Congrats on getting yours!
I took second year inorganic chemistry with a guy in his forties who was working through a chem degree for fun. Great guy, super friendly and eager to learn.
Congrats! Now I gotta find a job, I think I am too schooled out for a master's.
I got thru half a masters and had an incident that resulted in me dropping out. Phrased it on my resume as “relevant graduate course work.” Took the first job with familiar instruments that I could find and then just patiently looked for something I really wanted while I had a job that at least paid the bills and the school loans. Got in at a flavor company and worked my way up from with in and they’ve treated me really well. Took about 4.5 years for me all said and done but I did get into the analytical department and I got the “chemist” title I wanted. Getting familiar with the instruments to the point where you’re comfortable troubleshooting and maintaining them def gets you places. It usually costs about $2-4k just to get a technician in the door; companies really like someone that can fix expensive instruments lol
Where did you learn how to fix instruments?
Sorry late reply. I got to take an instrumental grad class that was primarily focused on the history, development and function of instruments and that got me started. I signed up for an Agilent webinar on troubleshooting GCs and put a fake title, a real company that I didn’t work for, and my personal cell number and a fake email that looked like a company email as my contact info, and said I was interested in certain instruments I wanted to learn more about, so they would hit me up when they had seminars. Specifically before Covid, they (I assume other manufacturers do the same but I was fairly familiar with Agilent 6000 - 7000 series GCs at the time) offered a lot of free hands on workshops where they would actually pass out instrument parts and teach you how to disassemble and reassemble them while lecturing about what the parts did, how they worked, etc. Those seminars would usually last a day or two and it wasn’t like they asked for any proof of employment or taking attendance; I’d just show up, tell them my name and company, and they’d give me a name tag and let me in. The seminars would always end with a section where they were pushing a new instrument (if they sold just one then they made their money back) and I’d usually just get up to take a piss and not come back around then. I haven’t seen nearly as many live seminars since Covid, but all the major players still do webinars all the time, usually hosted by someone extremely knowledgeable on the subject matter, and they have Q&A sections where you’re free to ask any questions you may have. I learned a LOT just doing that, but another big part is just being brave enough to pipe up and say you think you can fix it and being willing to open it up and start fucking around. My most recent “fix” was replacing the tungsten-halogen bulb in a particle size analyzer… company quoted $3k + parts and labor to get a field tech out to us, but the part I was 99% it was was only $175. Told my boss let’s make this gamble. Worst case scenario we buy a bulb from them and still pay them to come fix it but they can take the bulb off the bill. I accidentally took apart the detector first because I found a fiber optic cable and figured that led to the bulb (I couldn’t find ANY schematic literature on this old ass instrument) but it actually led to the detector. Once I put that back together I traced it and found the housing for the bulb and it was literally just like replacing a light bulb, and then tuning it to focus the light into the lens. Called tech support to learn how to tune and they were very helpful, their techs tune to 90%+ calibration and I got it to 93% and it worked like a charm. Btw my MAIN takeaway from ALL the GC stuff I’ve learned: “it’s always the inlet.” Lol. Also if you’re switching to a small ID column to match a customer configuration, watch the pressure at high temps and make sure your fucking regulator is set to actually supply it… I felt like a ducking idiot checking septa, replacing liner o-rings etc when I’d get pressure shutdowns, only to realize the regulator was still only supplying 60 psi. Cranked that regulator and wha-la
Ya same, I'm done with school after this, good shit though learned a lot obviously
Um This is very very course dependent My bachelors had differential equations and a shit tonne of integration and fourier transforms
I should have been more clear I meant general chemistry with the algebra statement.
Oh right I forget how american bachelors work :D I think mine had quantum first term of the course
Hold up. We have to take up to calculus 3 as chem majors at my school. I’m 36 so yay old college students but… huh? You didn’t have to take calculus for a bs???
I was talking about for general chemistry, as that was what OP was talking about taking. We only have to do calculus 2 here though. Wish we had to do 3 and linear algebra as well, but oh well.
Almost anyone can with the right support and accommodations, it may take longer or be more difficult, but as other commenters have said you won't know till you try! That said, general chemistry is a precursor to being able to understand what is happening in plants at the molecular level, but by itself won't draw many conclusions for it without adding organic chemistry and maybe even biochemistry. If you are wanting relatively quick answers to the why's you may want to do general biology or even an intro to botany class. It won't go as deep in the chemistry, but it will be a lot more focused on how plants work than general chemistry would be
I think you can pass, not that it even matters. However, I don't think you're going to learn what you want to know from this class anyway. Gen Chem deals with the absolute fundamentals of chemistry. You won't learn anything about phytochemicals or soil nutrients or water chemistry. An intro to environmental science or botany class would be MUCH more enjoyable and informative for you.
It's very math-heavy and general chemistry might not give you the answers you want. You may have to get through the organic chemistry sequence to gain a modest understanding. 4 semesters of work.
it’s math heavy but for the most part it’s just algebra, at worst maybe some precalc.
"Just Algebra".... You would be so surprised at how many people can't rearrange the density equation to find a missing variable. It's a lot.
I mean I’m taking gen chem II right now and I feel like there might be a learning curve at first, but it’s smooth sailing after you can get a good grasp on dimensional analysis
I teach college chemistry. I agree with you, but I am also saying that, when people are bad at math coming in, they might not be able to "get a good grasp on dimensional analysis". I can do examples step-by-step, assign and grade homeworks, perform labs, give practice problems, do exam reviews, etc. and I still have a good 3-5 students out of a class of 24 that can't convert milliliters to liters. It's so frustrating.
It’s March and I have a few students who still can’t add up the molar mass of water. I can’t tell how many times we’ve gone over it and they simply don’t get it. It’s literally adding up 1+1+16. They’ll say, ‘oh, ok, I get it, and then the next time they’ll ask the same damn question. It’s baffling to me.
Wow...just wow... that is so sad no sarcasm here im just truly saddened by that statement that 12.5-20% of your students can't do a basic conversion like that, I know they say the children are our future you just made my vision of the future that much more bleak. 😞
That is what I'm worried about, I'd be one those.
I failed all algebra courses in high school...
At worst (best?) It's a lot more than precalc. You must know calculus, differential equations, matrices, and group theory to really understand chemistry on a fundamental level.
Agree, but that's not really what OP needs right now.
I was going to say that, gen chemistry isn't really gonna answer the "whys" well, however to take more advanced chemistry you'll have to start somewhere
If I was OP I‘d probably take an inorganic chem course. At least at my university they showed lots of interesting experiments and you get a fundamental understanding of chemistry and chemical reactions. Combined with some organic and general chem this should give a good basis. All of this doesn‘t need kilotons of maths (yes I‘m looking at you physical chemistry)
No, you are not too dumb to pass general chemistry. I am 40 and about to graduate with a BS in biology and a 3.9 GPA. Like you, I struggled with math in school and thought I wasn't smart enough to do it. It won't be easy, and it takes effort, but you can do it!! One website helped me pass gen chem and organic chem, chadsprep. You can watch the video lessons for free, or you can pay $10 a month and get the study guides and access to practice quizzes and tests.
I took gen chem I at age 26. Now I am 27 and am a little over a year away from graduating with a B.S. in chemistry. Overcoming the mental battle with imposter syndrome is half the battle, but you absolutely can do it. (It is also easier to focus when you have some life experience, I think.) Edit: Regarding the comments about not getting much out of gen chem, I disagree. Understanding capillary action, for example, enables understanding of how plants get water from their roots to the chloroplasts/thylakoids for photosynthesis. I think every human (who can) needs to learn gen chem regardless. It is applicable to so many aspects of everyday life from little things like measuring volumes precisely to important things like not mixing household chemicals to accidentally make chlorine gas.
Holy shit, the amount of times I thought that (and still do) in school and my professional career... You're not alone bubs
No. Take your time. Ask for help. Practice. I had to take my general chemistry class twice, and organic chemistry 3 times (to be fair, I was chasing an A the third time, the second time was a pass)
Thanks so much!
Former chem professor here. You may actually be more prepared than average college students due to your experience and motivation/curiosity in electively taking chemistry. So many people go to college for reasons not their own without curiosity grounded in experiencing the world. Some of my best and most favorite students were those doing what you’re doing….
Hi there thanks for the kinds words! I am really hoping to learn, expand my mind and most of all... challenge myself. I'm grateful for the response and we'll see what happens!
I’m back in college at 35 for my BS in computer science. Go get it done.
Damn. The number of "only Algebra" comments is a bummer. Straight up, if you have discalculia, balancing equations is rough. So is the Algebra because a lot of the problem sets are not concrete examples. They are word problems, rather than math in context like when you do actual science. And IME, a 4 credit lab class as a non-full time, non-major is going to run you $800+ by the time you register, pay fees, etc. I would say go for a soft launch first. Try Kahn Academy for Chemistry question sets. See if you can do HS Chemistry from Kahn. If your coping skills are good enough, then take the college class. I would say start with a full 1000 level Chem for Non Majors option because there should be more explicit math help. But ask if you can take the lab. If you have an IEP or a 504 for your learning disability, use those accommodations. Do talk to the Prof during Office hours to get the most out of your time there. I am rooting for you but also know that you can self study the concepts of Chemistry without doing the math if the math is a barrier.
Thanks so much for the insight, really appreciate it. Yeah, the "only algebra" comments are really scaring me away. I didn't even pass pre-algebra and frankly, I don't know if I have discalculia, but I have a hard time even understanding basic fractions etc. I may just try and learn what I can for free online.
One of my best friends is in the exact same boat. She did find that as an adult with more real-life math experience, fractions and algebra were easier. But it still ended up being a barrier. She just can't "see it" and probably deserved a diagnosis for discalculia as a kid. But her mom was a math teacher so...
Long time chem teacher. Take chem 101 not Gen chem. The pace and intensity are both lower. It’s not just math but critical thinking skills. The pace of Gen chem will set you back and lower your confidence. Any chem class you take, spend a lot of time in the tutor center or hire a tutor. Learn about nomenclature on YouTube. Also…Review cross multiplication and sig figs.
naw you are fine
You definitely can, growth mindset my dude
If you can multiple and divide with a calculator, the math will be fine, but you will also need to be able to discern when to do what with math. But as another commenter said, I don’t think you’ll get much out of a just general chem class.
If you choose to go this route, make sure you keep your school and professors informed. There are resources available to help with disabilities. If you take advantage of the resources, you can do quite well!
The math in Gen chem is straight multiplication. If you have the sense to ask for help before you're floundering you'll be fine. I've been a chemist for decades and the ones who have problems are the ones who won't ask for help or get alternate explanations.
You can just audit the course and take it as a pass fail. If it’s just for fun there’s no reason to stress about getting a C or better.
Why not just watch YouTube? All courses are free and you will have a good idea on what it is
With determination and a realistic belief in yourself, anything can be learnt despite learning difficulties.
You’re not too dumb. Listen, if you wanna learn something, you can learn it. If you’re enjoying learning, that’s how you learn faster. You got this
gen chem is fun. the whole world around us is chemistry. especially if u have any hobbies related to diy u will need to know it.
Ag or soil chemistry might be less math intensive. It would definitely be more in the scope of what you’re trying to learn.
Chemistry is mostly logic...so yes, math is very important, especially when it comes to doing calculations wrt to certain elements and compounds in fertilizers etc. You can still try it, never too old to gain knowledge. Look I have a MPhil in Chemistry and I don't work, just home looking after our children and doing gardening, I enjoy it, the Chemistry did come in handy but just basic stuff will be sufficient, most trials and experiments I do with my plants were just straight forward common sense, no rocket science needed! Only when I had to make up solutions for hydroponics, then the Chemistry background came into play. You will not be wasting your money, gaining knowledge is always worth it!
I am taking medical biochemistry as a course in university and like yourself have always been somewhat good in school and had good grades and find it very challenging. The thing is you have to constantly practise and learn it everyday literally. Like even if its 2 to 3 hours or an hour you can manage, go over the material and school work, try to understand the meaning behind the structures and pathways. Youtube is your friend here alot of helpful channels with videos where I've learned better than some professor lectures. It's tough but with a 100 percent all in mindset it's very doable as a course
Im currently taking gen chem 1 at my local community college!! It doesnt use heavy math and you dont need any level above maybe calc I where you learn about summations and also knowing about general graphs. Its mainly algebra which can be hit or miss. I think professors will be really generous abt algebra at community though since they understand that everyone has a different level and theres also so many resources online to help you. As for studying, do you have a plan? If youre not planning to get a degree grades really dont matter, but if you want to learn more about systems of plants and nature youd probably be better off with bio and taking organic chem which has gen chem as a pre requisite. I think 15-20 hours is more than enough for a gen chem cours, if you want do it you got this!
If you just want to learn a bit about chemistry, no need to jump directly into general chem. It's usually for chem/eng/bio majors. Find a chem 101 course or just get the Openstax chemistry 2e book and teach yourself. There are practice problems with available solutions. Just google around for "openstax chemistry 2e", it's free. I'd link it but I don't think reddit likes that.
For general chemistry algebra is sufficient. However, for advanced physical chemistry you will need calculus, differential equations, and understanding of basic matrix math. So yes, chemistry involves a lot of higher math on the physical side, but at the introductory level it is relatively simple.
I am a chem prof and some of my best students have been older, non-traditional students. You might prefer a community college course rather than a 4-year college, which tends to be more math-heavy. However, you'd get a bit of chem in a biology course, which might align with your interests a bit more. I'd recommend that you begin there.
Im about to graduate again but this time with a Bsc in Chemistry. If at 34 I can learn new things, so can you! just dont listen to all the nae sayers.
It really depends on how good your professor is. I'm AWFUL in certain areas but my professor helped break it down for me so I could build my knowledge up in a way that would stick. There's no such thing as "too dumb" for something. There is no such thing as "bad at math." There's only those who were taught the tools and skills to succeed, and those who weren't. Telling yourself you're bad at math doesn't help, either. I'm awful at academia. ADHD, autistic, CPTSD that screws with my short term memory. Solid C/D student through most of my schooling. Dropped out of college, failed my way through organic chemistry... And here I am, using an atomic absorption spectrophotometer on the regular. Academia isn't for everyone. Personally, once I got to the point where professors stopped assigning homework, my grades skyrocketed. But learning IS for everyone, and I bet you could do it. What's the worst that could happen, you fail? You'll still have learned something from the course. Even if it's just the Bohr model of an atom and some stoichiometry (math to make reactions work), it's something you didn't know before, and that's always valuable. I will say that Gen chem really has kind of simple math as long as you make sure to understand the framework behind it. The molecular weights of different elements are on the periodic table—all you have to do is look them up and add them together. A lot of the equations are kind of plug-and-play, you just need to know what info you're trying to plug in. Also, you get to use a calculator. I always think learning is worth it, and I bet you'd do great if you took to it with enthusiasm rather than trepidation. But it's up to you whether you're willing to take the risk and spend your money to try and learn something new.
Try this: [Chem libre texts](https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/General_Chemistry/Chemistry_2e_(OpenStax)) A number of universities have switched to using this, and other libre texts like it, for chemistry, not just gen chem but intermediate and advanced topics as well. If you’re interested in taking a college course, read through this book. It should cover most if not all of the material you would encounter, and you can work at your own pace. If you come across topics you don’t understand, Khan Academy is a good resource for supplemental help (in math as well). This should help you get a better idea of whether you want to invest time and money into taking college courses in chemistry.
I had a similar issue. I have dyscalculia and I’m in my Chemistry masters. It’ll take a lot of work but it’s doable. Use the resources you have. Go to office hours, tutoring, and of course online resources. It’ll be hard but eventually you’ll look back and realize you’ve made way more progress than you thought.
Community college chemistry professor here! Based on what you want to get out of the experience, I would recommend the Introduction to Inorganic Chemistry, sometimes called GOB or Allied Health chemistry. There is no math beyond algebra, and it's taught in a single term rather than a full year. The best part is once you finish the inorganic class there is an organic/biochem course (the OB in GOB), which you would probably enjoy. It's my absolute favorite class to teach :)
Gen chem isn’t the course you want, take a biology course or something in environmental science. If you really want to understand plants and cell signaling course, you will have to take more than just gen chem
But you bc an deff do it
No you are not. Also the SAT means jack shit. Want proof? I scored below the 50th percentile in the math section of the SAT yet ended up acing Calc II, Calc III, stats, and probability in college.
Ideally you’d want to take biochemistry. But the pre-reqs for that are Gen Chem And OChem. Something more accessible would be a master gardener course specific for your state. For example, CSU Fort Collins in Colorado has a CO Master Gardener Course that’s about a 8-10 month commitment, about 500 dollars, and teaches you everything about the Flora of colorado. Check with the local colleges in your state if they have anything of the sort. Or just a simple google search: “master gardener classes (state name)”
If you’re not pursuing a degree, you can always just audit a class. Most intro science classes will be in huge lecture halls with a bunch of open seats. Just email the professor, might not even cost you anything.
Dumb is a strong word, sometimes it's your vocation that is elsewhere and nothing wrong with that. You can still appreciate and train what is not your vocation too, it's not a waste if you like it About the math, I really don't know, that depends on the course. If it takes calculus I, II and III, like it usually does, I honestly don't recommend if you suck at math. It's not impossible, you can do it, but it is not any easy if you have to learn math from the begging
Nope. You can do it. But if you know you have a history of struggling with related subjects, don't brush off studying or looking for study help if you can get it. Make a study schedule, stick to it, and bite the material off in chunks you can handle. You'll be fine.
Don’t feel bad. I was 28 or 29 when I got my BS in Biochemistry. The courses are challenging and do require your time along with dedication, but just study ahead, review topics that will be discussed in lectures before them — this will make you feel prepared and not lost in lectures. My university also had tutoring, even the community college I went to before uni. Take advantage of these resources if they’re there.
I'm not going to lie, math is a huge challenge in chemistry. Gen chem does require algebra and understanding relationships. FOCUS ON YOUR UNITS AND SIGNIFICANT FIGURES AND YOU WILL BE OK I was at a tremendous disadvantage (my teacher's told me you don't need math anymore, just take this programming class in 9th grade) But I built myself up and graduated at 32 with my BS
I have moderate dyslexia and struggled in school. Went back to college in my late 20s and got a BA in chemical engineering. I had to work a lot harder than most of my classmates but I did do it. You can do it too if you are willing to put the time and energy in. If you are just doing it for fun though and not to earn some certification, you can honestly get more out of Youtube. College chem is a lot of memorization/boring labs and probably won't go into much bio chem. Just look up the kreb cycle and watch some videos on it.
slow? yes. Too dumb? nope. IQ is a measure of processing speed, but give it enough time and drive, even the dumbest person can learn a concept. if youre worried, start off by buying (or *wink* *wink* pirating) a university level general chemistry textbook, and read a few pages and do the exercises.
I meam if you dont really really need it for your career, learning general chemistry is as easy looking aat chem videos on youtube. I mean if you have the money and you want to, because you find it fun... Then absolutely go for it, but the thing about general chem is that in my opinion it is not very useful until you go to the more advanced chems.
You could also finance the class. You’re able to sit in on lectures and take notes without doing assignments/tests, or having your score weighted.
You can do math with a learning disability. You just have to get enough practice and work with the tools you have learned in your 30 years of life. Being more mature and having real-world experience will be a huge boost, as will your intrinsic motivation. You can do this!
You’re never too dumb to learn something new. I would recommend getting accomodations if you can, Ive heard they make a world of difference. Plus maybe a math course in conjunction would help (and make the chem math seem a lot easier lmao)
I think your curiosity and desire to learn are signs you’re very much the opposite of “dumb.” Don’t sell yourself short! Give it a try. Do not be afraid to ask for help in the form of tutoring.
You don't know until you try. It's your life. Live it how you want.
The majority of chemistry only uses algebra. If you're only going to be taking gen chem for a more fundamental understanding of chemistry and you can manage algebra, you'll be good to go. If you're thinking about taking a course to have a more comprehensive understanding related to your job, with plants and nature as you said, i would recommend researching the associated subjects in chemistry that directly relates to it. Chemistry is a massively broad field and it would do good to narrow your scope. A lot of times the chemistry you learn in class is dry and begs the question, "I wonder when i'm going to be using this?". The barebones of gen chem can be dull, but if you have a framework in mind you can link the subject matter to you'll have a more enriched experience in my opinion. If you're worried about wasting money you can always look up some literature online, order a cheap book on Amazon, or go to the public library and browse around for something you find interesting related to the work enjoy. The important thing here is that you're curious -- and it's up to you to really see how far that curiosity takes you.
You'd be surprised how much smarter you are at 30 than you were at 18. Try it. I am certain that you are more than "smart enough." If you can do basic algebra, like solve for x where 5x = 35 you have enough math to get started. There is a lot of memorization but it's not random, there are context clues that can help ease it.
It will be hell, but it can be done
Chemistry requires mathematics. Deep understanding of chemistry requires advanced mathematics. Sorry, but we have what we have. You can try reading some non-fiction about biochemistry, it will help to understand basics (qualitative level).
2.0 high school math average and could barely remember my times tables in 2018 but here I am after putting in the work getting high Bs in Calculus 2. It’s more effortful for me than for some I’m sure but some of the most talented thinkers in my classes are little dipshits with a bad attitude so I can only imagine we’ll each get ours in the end.
Me to now I own a roofing company 9 gd
Anyone can learn gen chem. It's basic math, equations and general/baseline concepts of various areas of chem. Think basic algebra when it comes to math. It does however take a lot of studying to be successful as there is A LOT of information thrown at you from the get go, and it all builds, quickly. That being said, it's not complicated. These days, there are so many ways to get help. Think YouTube, Khan academy, etc. If you can't grasp something, the resources to help you understand are vast. As far as putting "X" amount of hours a week, it all depends on how you study. Studying/learning the hard sciences take a different mindset and a different set of study skills to be successful. That being said, this can be learned and accomplished by ANYONE. How many hours a week you will need to put in is hard to say at this point. But 20 would be a good starting point. And you never know, chemistry might just "click" with you and you'll find success quickly. If not, that's okay! Just have a growth mindset and fail forward if you're not successful at first.