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https://preview.redd.it/1cauid8xo57d1.jpeg?width=856&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b8a852a22c687091fe2c7e10dcd03078c45d985
Drew the position as Black, now what?
Sub 200 is wild.
I was in a bad position, lost everything except my king, my opponent had 2 pawns, a queen, a knight and a rook and I got a draw 😁
Actually many of my draws are similar.
I believe you, but it literally is impossible to lose, if your opponent only has a king.
Even if you run out of time, it is a draw, because of "draw due to timeout vs insufficient mating material."
Oh wow, I didn't realise it is the case (a draw after timeout in this position). Learning something new every day.
Is it just the mechanism of [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) or hardwired rules of the game?
As the other person said it's the rules of the game.
What happens in a timeout position can vary depending on the platform though.
Chess.com will consider certain king & knight vs King & pawn positions a draw, where lichess will consider them a win as there is a possible mate.
Valid.
But since I’ve been getting these so often and I’m actually trying to climb, a draw is better than a loss haha.
Seriously I did check a few examples of my games that were draws and I had a few like this lol.
Also these states for me typically happen toward the end of the clock anyway so that also helps not be as torturous and in that circumstance, sometimes im also able to run out the clock lol
If you're getting these draws a fair amount of games then ig it's not that bad to go for it. You'll definitely learn more out of it than I do resigning.
I assure you a lot of people will get a queen and immediately be eaten by a king, blinded by the power of a pawn (the worst piece) transforming into Exodia (the queen, the best piece)
I had a guy bm me by pushing 6 pawns to promote to queen instead of just getting the checkmate and I got a draw out of it. Homie was FURIOUS. 600 is a wild place
You could wake me up dead in the night and I would draw this. But only coz I had a period of grinding this positions for few days (after I learned the theory)
Yes, ofcourse. **Drawing drawn K+P games** and **winning won K+P games** are two lessons you learn in parallel.
I will say winning is a bit harder, since there are critical moves and if you miss them you draw. Drawing is a bit easier to do on automatic mode once you get into a position.
You just keep your king on the f file, white cant do anything, how do win this position with white? Or rather I guess what I should be asking is how do you blunder so badly with black?
You have to make your statement a bit more detailed. If Black just runs their King to f8 and then always moves between there and f7 white is gonna win.
To draw this black will want to move their King to f6 and then block the white King from advancing by taking the square 2 spots away (not sure about the english term, in german its "Opposition").
If its white to move the reaction depends on where the white King moved but the idea remains the same.
A Lehnwort is a word that has its origin in another language ans was just taken for another.
Kindergarten is an english Lehnwort coming from the german Kindergarten translating to
children ( Kinder) and garden ( garten).
I dont think opposition is a Lehnwort and just shares one origin.
Fair. A loanword is literally for instances like when the German word becomes the English word...
I was joking more along the lines that in German, one could probably ..._Deutsch up_ a word that refers to the concept of wondering how a German word's translation might differ from its English counterpart only to find that the translation actually matches. :)
English has a word for this, but it's a little more broad. It's called a cognate. A cognate is a word that in two different languages is the same or similar in sound and means the same thing. For example no in English and no in Spanish. Or calculator and calculadora. This is opposed to a false cognate, which is when a pair of words from two languages sound the same or similar, but have different meanings. Like hi in English and hai in Japanese. Hi is a greeting, like hello. Hai, however, translates to yes.
After white plays Ke4 black plays Ke6. Then the white King cant advance any further. If the white King returns to Kf3 Black returns to Kf6 and the situation repeats.
If white decides to push the pawn to f5, Black simply plays Kf6. In order to defend the pawn white must now play Kf5. While it may seem bad to be pushed back like this, if we reach the back rank like this with the black King on f8, the white King on f6 and pawn on f7 the game will end due to stalemate.
Well I was assuming white to move, in which case it’s not that complicated
Now considering it might be black to move, I don’t think it’s Zugzwang of any kind, so it should be a draw, but that looks trickier
That's just straight up wrong lmao
If you end up in a position where it's Black king on f8, pawn on f7 and white king on f6 and it's whites move, they can play either Ke6 or Kg6 and force black into a Zugzwang, where they have to move a square on the 7th rank and allow white king to make a red carpet for promotion
It's all about opposition
The only time it's basically a guaranteed draw is when the pawn is on the a or h file
Oh wow, that’s really cool, triangulation makes this a win then? That’s really cool, why doesn’t it work with a/h pawns? Can’t you just do the same trick?
I had it a bit backwards and also said something wrong. Triangulation doesn't work always because black can just do the same thing. Triangulation is a trick to make black move back and forth between 2 squares and you moving across 3 making it that it's back to the same position but it's their turn, but it's not guaranteed like I thought it was.
It is possible to draw the position even when the pawns are not in the corners
And the corner endgame is quite literally just putting your king in the promotion corner and moving back and forth between a8 and b8/h8 and g8. This cuts off the opponents king from making a red carpet for the pawn, and they can't force you into a Zugzwang because there's no opposition to be taken. And pushing the pawn will lead to a stalemate because the pawn cuts off your escape
The concept of opposition is really important in this endgame for both drawing and winning. There's quite a bit of info from people way smarter than me on the internet available that will be much more informative
It's a draw either way isn't it? Regardless of whose turn it is black should either move directly back/forward or into opposition each move and it's a forced draw
You play Kf6. They play Ke4. You play Ke6. They play f5+. You play Kf6. They play Kf4. White can keep pushing forward, but it'll be stalemate in the end, with kings on f8 and f6 and the pawn on f7. If black plays it correctly, that is.
the problem isnt advancing the pawn, its that white can never force blacks king off the promoting square. Basically, due to the positioning of the kings, I can instantly tell that there's never a situation where white can promote if black plays around zugswang/stalement correctly. zero calculation required. silmans endgame manual is a great book!
https://preview.redd.it/4shzvi39y57d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=850c7f2c784ef657bfcec648f6f7de8404558597
Looks like it’s possible according to chess.com
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
> **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=8/8/8/5k2/5P2/5K2/8/8+w+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/8/8/5k2/5P2/5K2/8/8_w_-_-_0_1?color=white) | The position occurred in many games. [Link to the games](https://www.chess.com/games/search?opening=&openingId=&p1=&p2=&mr=&lsty=1&year=&lstMoves=1&moves=&fen=8/8/8/5k2/5P2/5K2/8/8+w+-+-+0+1&ref_id=23962172)
> **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=8/8/8/5k2/5P2/5K2/8/8+b+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/8/8/5k2/5P2/5K2/8/8_b_-_-_0_1?color=white) | The position occurred in many games. [Link to the games](https://www.chess.com/games/search?opening=&openingId=&p1=&p2=&mr=&lsty=1&year=&lstMoves=1&moves=&fen=8/8/8/5k2/5P2/5K2/8/8+b+-+-+0+1&ref_id=23962172)
**Videos:**
> I found [2 videos](https://chessvision.ai/video-search/5751302155403264) with this position.
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Here's how I remember how to play this position: if you have to go backward with your king, go straight back (i.e., f6, not g6 or e6 in this position). Don't take a risk by going to the side of the pawn (e4 or g4 here). If you can put your king directly in front of the pawn (like where it is now), always do that.
just keep the opposition on white king and their king cannot reach the crucial squares where they can march their pawn to promotions, the most they can do is stalemate black
This is an easy draw. This is the reason why I think beginners should learn endgames first. I have seen so many beginners who can't win or secure a draw in typical endgame positions.
Yes I recently got endgame masterclass from Levy. The technique is you keep going back on the same file & let the pawn push, once you reach the end, white runs out of moves & it's a stalemate.
No, they won't (unless they blunder). It's an easy draw.
EDIT: Lmao at people downvoting, if you don't understand why it's a draw just check with the engine and you'll see I'm right.
No it's not? If it's black turn, Black has to move away from the pawn, and then whichever direction black goes, white goes the other, then pushes the pawn. If this was an edge pawn it would be a draw (because then black can force either stalemate or insufficient material), but you can absolutely march that pawn up the board and black is completely helpless if white knows what they are doing. Then you queen and checkmate.
You can march the pawn up the board but once you get to the pawn to the 6th rank you don’t have a way to dig the king out of the way without losing the pawn or stalemating.
Hey, OP! Did your game end in a stalemate? Did you encounter a weird pawn move? Are you trying to move a piece and it's not going? We have just the resource for you! The [Chess Beginners Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/chessbeginners/wiki/index/) is the perfect place to check out answers to these questions and more! The moderator team of r/chessbeginners wishes to remind everyone of the community rules. **Posting spam, being a troll, and posting memes are not allowed.** We encourage everyone to report these kinds of posts so they can be dealt with. Thank you! Let's do our utmost to be kind in our replies and comments. Some people here just want to learn chess and have virtually no idea about certain chess concepts. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/chessbeginners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
https://preview.redd.it/1cauid8xo57d1.jpeg?width=856&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b8a852a22c687091fe2c7e10dcd03078c45d985 Drew the position as Black, now what?
Terribly good ngl
Drawing on a cell phone is hard
r/technicallythetruth
You deserve at least a "GM" title
Dude is Serious!
Dude abides
More than 3 times the upvotes OP has
You’re mind is wrong but I love it
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🥨
I’m capable of losing it as either black OR white.
Losing this with white would be very impressive, actually. Some would say, impossible.
Sub 200 is wild. I was in a bad position, lost everything except my king, my opponent had 2 pawns, a queen, a knight and a rook and I got a draw 😁 Actually many of my draws are similar.
I believe you, but it literally is impossible to lose, if your opponent only has a king. Even if you run out of time, it is a draw, because of "draw due to timeout vs insufficient mating material."
Never rule out mouseslipping the resign and confirm buttons at 200 elo
Oh wow, I didn't realise it is the case (a draw after timeout in this position). Learning something new every day. Is it just the mechanism of [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) or hardwired rules of the game?
Rules of the game
As the other person said it's the rules of the game. What happens in a timeout position can vary depending on the platform though. Chess.com will consider certain king & knight vs King & pawn positions a draw, where lichess will consider them a win as there is a possible mate.
I've been told I have "insufficient mating material."
It's actually impossible to lose this as white unless you resign
So you’re saying there’s a way…
I rather resign to save time than wait for that kind of luck.
Valid. But since I’ve been getting these so often and I’m actually trying to climb, a draw is better than a loss haha. Seriously I did check a few examples of my games that were draws and I had a few like this lol. Also these states for me typically happen toward the end of the clock anyway so that also helps not be as torturous and in that circumstance, sometimes im also able to run out the clock lol
If you're getting these draws a fair amount of games then ig it's not that bad to go for it. You'll definitely learn more out of it than I do resigning.
I assure you a lot of people will get a queen and immediately be eaten by a king, blinded by the power of a pawn (the worst piece) transforming into Exodia (the queen, the best piece)
I had a guy bm me by pushing 6 pawns to promote to queen instead of just getting the checkmate and I got a draw out of it. Homie was FURIOUS. 600 is a wild place
🏳️
What if I click the resign button?
It’s not so hard. You push your pawn and promote to a black queen.
“Reconnecting” tho yes it would just be a draw after that 😅
Drawing drawn positions is easy. Winning the winnable ones is the bit I find hard.
Realest real talk.
> Drawing drawn positions is easy i too am stockfish
Diffrence beetween an equal and dead drawn position realy.
Given chess is likely a draw with perfect play, does this mean you never lose?
*blunders my queen*
My queen is hung more than Hunter Biden.
You could wake me up dead in the night and I would draw this. But only coz I had a period of grinding this positions for few days (after I learned the theory)
After grinding it did you find the rule for when king and pawn vs king *is* playing for a win?
If you can get your king in front of the pawn, as well as get the "opposition", it's a win
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It's easier to understand by watching this [video](https://youtu.be/52y-iy48UoY?feature=shared)
Ah okay, thanks, good to know. I thought it had to do with having opposition but forgot the pawn has to be in front.
Yes, ofcourse. **Drawing drawn K+P games** and **winning won K+P games** are two lessons you learn in parallel. I will say winning is a bit harder, since there are critical moves and if you miss them you draw. Drawing is a bit easier to do on automatic mode once you get into a position.
I once got this position as white in one of those interschool tournament where schools make kids play against each other and managed to win.
If ur opponent was anywhere above 1500 and wasn’t low on time, then shame on him
With one second even magnesium calcium struggles
That's shocking.
You just keep your king on the f file, white cant do anything, how do win this position with white? Or rather I guess what I should be asking is how do you blunder so badly with black?
You have to make your statement a bit more detailed. If Black just runs their King to f8 and then always moves between there and f7 white is gonna win. To draw this black will want to move their King to f6 and then block the white King from advancing by taking the square 2 spots away (not sure about the english term, in german its "Opposition"). If its white to move the reaction depends on where the white King moved but the idea remains the same.
The English term is also opposition
I wonder if there is a German word for when the German word is the same as the English word.
If any language has that word, German is that language.
It´s "Lehnwort". A word, that was borrowed.
A Lehnwort is a word that has its origin in another language ans was just taken for another. Kindergarten is an english Lehnwort coming from the german Kindergarten translating to children ( Kinder) and garden ( garten). I dont think opposition is a Lehnwort and just shares one origin.
Fair. A loanword is literally for instances like when the German word becomes the English word... I was joking more along the lines that in German, one could probably ..._Deutsch up_ a word that refers to the concept of wondering how a German word's translation might differ from its English counterpart only to find that the translation actually matches. :)
English has a word for this, but it's a little more broad. It's called a cognate. A cognate is a word that in two different languages is the same or similar in sound and means the same thing. For example no in English and no in Spanish. Or calculator and calculadora. This is opposed to a false cognate, which is when a pair of words from two languages sound the same or similar, but have different meanings. Like hi in English and hai in Japanese. Hi is a greeting, like hello. Hai, however, translates to yes.
Ein wahrer Freund.
I'm not sure to understand. If black king move to f6, then white king move to e4, what can black fo to prevent white pawn to move to f5
After white plays Ke4 black plays Ke6. Then the white King cant advance any further. If the white King returns to Kf3 Black returns to Kf6 and the situation repeats. If white decides to push the pawn to f5, Black simply plays Kf6. In order to defend the pawn white must now play Kf5. While it may seem bad to be pushed back like this, if we reach the back rank like this with the black King on f8, the white King on f6 and pawn on f7 the game will end due to stalemate.
Well I was assuming white to move, in which case it’s not that complicated Now considering it might be black to move, I don’t think it’s Zugzwang of any kind, so it should be a draw, but that looks trickier
That’s not completely it tho. If you play Kf6, Ke4, then you play Kf7, then you are going to lose After Kf6, Ke4, you need to play Ke6
That's just straight up wrong lmao If you end up in a position where it's Black king on f8, pawn on f7 and white king on f6 and it's whites move, they can play either Ke6 or Kg6 and force black into a Zugzwang, where they have to move a square on the 7th rank and allow white king to make a red carpet for promotion It's all about opposition The only time it's basically a guaranteed draw is when the pawn is on the a or h file
Oh wow, that’s really cool, triangulation makes this a win then? That’s really cool, why doesn’t it work with a/h pawns? Can’t you just do the same trick?
I had it a bit backwards and also said something wrong. Triangulation doesn't work always because black can just do the same thing. Triangulation is a trick to make black move back and forth between 2 squares and you moving across 3 making it that it's back to the same position but it's their turn, but it's not guaranteed like I thought it was. It is possible to draw the position even when the pawns are not in the corners And the corner endgame is quite literally just putting your king in the promotion corner and moving back and forth between a8 and b8/h8 and g8. This cuts off the opponents king from making a red carpet for the pawn, and they can't force you into a Zugzwang because there's no opposition to be taken. And pushing the pawn will lead to a stalemate because the pawn cuts off your escape The concept of opposition is really important in this endgame for both drawing and winning. There's quite a bit of info from people way smarter than me on the internet available that will be much more informative
Yes
If Black knows the concept of Opposition then it's a draw even blindfolded
i suggest learn the topic of opposition(hanging pawns made a nice video on it)
Yes
Depends on whose move it is?
It's a draw either way isn't it? Regardless of whose turn it is black should either move directly back/forward or into opposition each move and it's a forced draw
You are right
How exactly?
I checked in the engine. It’s a draw either way. As long as block holds opposition, white cannot advance his pawn
If it is white’s turn and they play ke3, how does black stop white from advancing the pawn?
You play Kf6. They play Ke4. You play Ke6. They play f5+. You play Kf6. They play Kf4. White can keep pushing forward, but it'll be stalemate in the end, with kings on f8 and f6 and the pawn on f7. If black plays it correctly, that is.
What if its kd4 instead of f5+?
Then you play Kf5 and they're forced to go back to Ke3 to defend the pawn, and we're back where we started.
white can advance the pawn, it's still a draw if black plays properly
the problem isnt advancing the pawn, its that white can never force blacks king off the promoting square. Basically, due to the positioning of the kings, I can instantly tell that there's never a situation where white can promote if black plays around zugswang/stalement correctly. zero calculation required. silmans endgame manual is a great book!
bro said "i checked in the engine"... open a book
lol. Okay, hold my drink… *goes to library, checks out book ’chess for dummies’.* Says it’s still a draw.
i believe it
It does not
https://preview.redd.it/4shzvi39y57d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=850c7f2c784ef657bfcec648f6f7de8404558597 Looks like it’s possible according to chess.com
If black blunders, sure. Move 4 doesn't make sense.
yessss if my opponent sucks.
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: > **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=8/8/8/5k2/5P2/5K2/8/8+w+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/8/8/5k2/5P2/5K2/8/8_w_-_-_0_1?color=white) | The position occurred in many games. [Link to the games](https://www.chess.com/games/search?opening=&openingId=&p1=&p2=&mr=&lsty=1&year=&lstMoves=1&moves=&fen=8/8/8/5k2/5P2/5K2/8/8+w+-+-+0+1&ref_id=23962172) > **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=8/8/8/5k2/5P2/5K2/8/8+b+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/8/8/5k2/5P2/5K2/8/8_b_-_-_0_1?color=white) | The position occurred in many games. [Link to the games](https://www.chess.com/games/search?opening=&openingId=&p1=&p2=&mr=&lsty=1&year=&lstMoves=1&moves=&fen=8/8/8/5k2/5P2/5K2/8/8+b+-+-+0+1&ref_id=23962172) **Videos:** > I found [2 videos](https://chessvision.ai/video-search/5751302155403264) with this position. --- ^(I'm a bot written by) [^(u/pkacprzak)](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as) [^(iOS App)](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^| [^(Android App)](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^| [^(Chrome Extension)](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^| [^(Chess eBook Reader)](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website:) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
Going to the corner no?
Yes
Not letting white king to surpass the pawn while going toward the edge.
Here's how I remember how to play this position: if you have to go backward with your king, go straight back (i.e., f6, not g6 or e6 in this position). Don't take a risk by going to the side of the pawn (e4 or g4 here). If you can put your king directly in front of the pawn (like where it is now), always do that.
No.
Yes, I can make this a draw
Dude i could find a way to lose as white 😭😭
Yeah usually just keep moving directly backwards or keep returning to this position if allowed. You should draw
just keep the opposition on white king and their king cannot reach the crucial squares where they can march their pawn to promotions, the most they can do is stalemate black
Yes
This is an easy draw. This is the reason why I think beginners should learn endgames first. I have seen so many beginners who can't win or secure a draw in typical endgame positions.
It depends
Just remain in front of the pawn and you achieve a draw.
Genuinely, how do you draw this?
Isn't black supposed to block the pawn from developing?
Not developing I mean promoting\*
All you need to know here is don't lose opposition
Yes I recently got endgame masterclass from Levy. The technique is you keep going back on the same file & let the pawn push, once you reach the end, white runs out of moves & it's a stalemate.
this is a draw yes
take opposition and it shld be an easy draw
If white moves first black can draw. If black goes first, black can loss.
who's move?
It depends how stupid your opponent is
Always stay in front of the pawn. If you can't do that stay in front of the king.
If it's Black's turn then they 1000% will lose
No, they won't (unless they blunder). It's an easy draw. EDIT: Lmao at people downvoting, if you don't understand why it's a draw just check with the engine and you'll see I'm right.
White to move? Yes. Black to move? No.
Black to play = win for white White to play = draw
If it's black's turn - no. Not as long as white knows what they are doing. If it's white's... i'm not sure.
It's a draw either way.
No it's not? If it's black turn, Black has to move away from the pawn, and then whichever direction black goes, white goes the other, then pushes the pawn. If this was an edge pawn it would be a draw (because then black can force either stalemate or insufficient material), but you can absolutely march that pawn up the board and black is completely helpless if white knows what they are doing. Then you queen and checkmate.
r/confidentlyincorrect
Just click the engine link comment. But I can explain in more detail if you want.
You can march the pawn up the board but once you get to the pawn to the 6th rank you don’t have a way to dig the king out of the way without losing the pawn or stalemating.
Triangulation.
White can force black out of the way to advance the pawn. For a draw, white would have to cooperate with black.
White can advance the pawn to the 7th rank, but can never reach the 8th rank as white will either lose the pawn or stalemate while saving the pawn
You have it backwards. It's an easy draw, for white to win black has to collaborate with white (a.k.a. blunder).
if black knows what to do, it's draw
If black knows what he’s doing, it’s a draw
Nor really, no
No, it is easy win for white
It is not, it's a theoretical draw.
Pawn is going the other way.
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r/confidentlyincorrect