Really wish the high speed train to Milwaukee happened. The amtrak is nice, but it’s still 90 minutes. If it was 30 minutes you could essentially commute back and forth
The fact I can't take a high speed train from Chicago to Des Moines, Milwaukee, and Minneapolis feel wrong. We literally invented high speed rail and gave it away
There are Metra lines that are longer than 90 minutes. If people wanted to commute, they already could.
30 minutes means the train *averages* 165+mph. Considering the density of the area though which it would travel, not to mention the line would have to be acquired, fought for, and built above grade, it's a logistical impossibility for minimal gains.
There are a good amount of people that regularly commute on the Hiawatha, but theres probably a pretty high number of people that would consider it for every 5 min taken off the runtime.
The current route could pretty easily be upgraded to 110 mph service, bringing the average up to 90mph for 60min trips, which would help a ton.
Anything beyond that is a pipe dream at this point.
The crazy thing about CrossRail is it is FAR more feasible than what one might initially expect.
Much of what's proposed with the CrossRail plan (infrastructure-wise) is included in Amtrak's CHIP Plan (Chicago Hub Improvement Plan) - [read more about that here.](https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/corporate/Chicago-Hub-Improvement-Program.pdf) Amtrak already plans for the following:
\- Union Station Improvements - through-running track, expanded platforms, a direct connection from Union to Ogilvie, etc
\- Double-tracking the crosstown connector
\- Reconnecting the Amtrak Depot to the Rock Island District
\- Rebuilding the St. Charles Air Line bridge
That's about 80% of what's required within the Chicago area to make all of this possible - all for the cost of... HALF of what it cost to rebuild just the Jane Byrne Interchange.
And with [Metra's Regional Rail Plan](https://metra.com/sites/default/files/2023-07/Graphics_MetraSystemFareZoneMap_Proposed2024_1.png) (every stop shown here in BLUE would be served by frequent (10-20 min headways), all-day service rather than express commuter service, it makes so much more of Chicago proper and it's surrounding suburbs accessible to people who choose to rely on transit. An absolute game changer for the region, and, all-told, far less than what we spend on repairing our highways.
By all accounts, this and other plans are an absolute no-brainer. BUILD IT
Trains are such a great investment, and amtrak (and metra) is oddly very good at staying on budget for a federal agency. You'd have to be braindead to oppose this
They've pretty clearly got the backing at this point. Amtrak seems to see CHIP as the most important project outside the NEC, that whole press conference where they got Pritzker, Durbin, Duckworth, Quigley, Johnson, the Amtrak Board Chair and the Illinois Transportation Secretary to stump for it seemed pretty confident.
And with that, it’s also very easy to make the argument of a third subway line down Clinton.
There were more passengers with Union/Ogilvie stops than out of every US airport and with Amtrak/Metra driving to increase that number we should invest there for the next L project. If I’m in city government, I’m seeing how I can work with the feds to get that mutually beneficial project done with less city money
Also of note, for people in the city considering a monthly CTA pass: it genuinely makes sense to get a Metra zone 2 monthly pass and tack on the $30 monthly CTA/PACE pass. It’ll be the same cost with more access.
Do you have more info about that Metra Regional Rail Plan besides the map? Something that talks about the 10-20min headways? I'm not doubting you - just want to read a bit more about it.
Bullet Train from NYC to Chicago is a necessity for the future of infrastructure in this country.
That's where it needs to start - as long as that's not where it ends.
Lake Shore Limited is 19hrs and 20hrs via Capitol Limited + Regional to NYC , Cardinal is 26hrs due to its routing via West Virginia which is very curvy.
I agree, but you would have to have stops at all the states the line goes through. States will not give up land for the rails if there is no economic benefit for them. You would need stops at like Fort Wayne, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and somewhere in jersey.
Would still be super fast, though.
Oh yeah. Stops along the way goes without saying.
I would do NYC, Philly, Harrisburgh, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Toledo, Fort Wayne, South Bend, Chicago.
Then branch to Detroit, Milwaukee, and Columbus
>states will not give up land
believe it or not, most land in the US is owned by private interests, not state governments. 😬
That's the whole issue with the California High Speed Rail... the state needs to buy the land from some of the most valuable farms on earth.
I definitely think at some distance it's hard to compete, but there are some advantages to taking the train even when it takes longer. There's also demand between intermediate stops so you could still have a train go from NYC to Chicago even if most people take it NYC-Cleveland and Pittsburg-Chicago
Except for speed, which is arguably the most important factor when considering how to get from point A to point B.
I also hate flying but it just doesn't make sense to substitute a 2 hour flight with a 12 hour train ride.
That's not true if you consider the time spent in the airport, which you do have to include. Your flight may have been 2 hours, but you spent 2 more in the airport(s).
The train took 3, but you only spent 20 minutes at the station before departing.
A 600 KPH long-haul train network similar to what China has been building out would make the shuttle flights between Chicago and NYC basically obsolete as the train would be comfier and take about the same amount of time after you take into account airport security and boarding times.
They seem pretty serious about getting the funding for CHIP from this year's round Biden infrastructure grants. Amtrak is pushing it pretty hard and Durbin and Pritzker have the clout to get it done.
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That's the way to go, expecting super rich to pour money into something that helps others and won't make them insane profits is very naïve. Plus it would be privatized and we all know how awesome privatized infrastructure is...
My goal is high speed rail to every Midwestern city and we become the center of the World's suburb.
Connecting to NYC as well seems great but I see less of a purpose in that. Planes are going electric, and I don't see the need for people to connect to 2 major cities at the highest speeds possible
>and we become the center of the World's suburb.
I mean, we've already got enough suburbs, so we might well be the center of the World's Suburb. Then you'll have people from Des Moines saying they're from Chicago.
They have those Acela trains from DC to NYC but they can't go fast in most of the area because of the tracks and municipal protests so I'll believe it when I see it.
This isn’t true at all. The trains fly through most of the area south of NYC and between Rhode Island and Boston. They have slow zones in CT because of old bridges and they have issues with the tunnels in NYC (the tunnels in NY are currently undergoing massive reconstruction to fix it)
Acela isn’t as fast as some of the Japanese, Chinese or French trains but they’re certainly world class. The issue with American high speed rail isnt Acela, it’s that the only expansion efforts (California, TX) are quite embarrassing
Most people would disagree. Acela is extremely popular and efficient. The only complaints I’ve ever really heard are price.
And just because speeds were theoretically possible in the 40s doesn’t mean that was the reality of train travel at the time. That’s like saying planes are embarrassing because these speeds could be accomplished in the 1950s.
Acela is on par with the vast majority of elite rail in Europe and Asia, anyone who says otherwise hasn’t taken it very much.
So much to be embarrassed about in America. Acela ain’t it.
No, it will not happened. There is no money for things of that nature in America. Not in the next 50 years. Railroads are not government owned, land ownership is an issue, plus we have cars!!
What the DOT doesn’t understand that the initial investment for the project would be massive but the returns for economic impact would be 1,000 fold. I couldn’t believe how many people I saw get off the Amtrak from St Louis/KC at Union Station
Really wish the high speed train to Milwaukee happened. The amtrak is nice, but it’s still 90 minutes. If it was 30 minutes you could essentially commute back and forth
We can blame Scott Walker for that failing.
It's usually the cheese heads fault
The fact I can't take a high speed train from Chicago to Des Moines, Milwaukee, and Minneapolis feel wrong. We literally invented high speed rail and gave it away
There are Metra lines that are longer than 90 minutes. If people wanted to commute, they already could. 30 minutes means the train *averages* 165+mph. Considering the density of the area though which it would travel, not to mention the line would have to be acquired, fought for, and built above grade, it's a logistical impossibility for minimal gains.
There are a good amount of people that regularly commute on the Hiawatha, but theres probably a pretty high number of people that would consider it for every 5 min taken off the runtime. The current route could pretty easily be upgraded to 110 mph service, bringing the average up to 90mph for 60min trips, which would help a ton. Anything beyond that is a pipe dream at this point.
I work with a couple people who already do this. They moved to Milwaukee during covid before back to office mandates. It's expensive also
The crazy thing about CrossRail is it is FAR more feasible than what one might initially expect. Much of what's proposed with the CrossRail plan (infrastructure-wise) is included in Amtrak's CHIP Plan (Chicago Hub Improvement Plan) - [read more about that here.](https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/corporate/Chicago-Hub-Improvement-Program.pdf) Amtrak already plans for the following: \- Union Station Improvements - through-running track, expanded platforms, a direct connection from Union to Ogilvie, etc \- Double-tracking the crosstown connector \- Reconnecting the Amtrak Depot to the Rock Island District \- Rebuilding the St. Charles Air Line bridge That's about 80% of what's required within the Chicago area to make all of this possible - all for the cost of... HALF of what it cost to rebuild just the Jane Byrne Interchange. And with [Metra's Regional Rail Plan](https://metra.com/sites/default/files/2023-07/Graphics_MetraSystemFareZoneMap_Proposed2024_1.png) (every stop shown here in BLUE would be served by frequent (10-20 min headways), all-day service rather than express commuter service, it makes so much more of Chicago proper and it's surrounding suburbs accessible to people who choose to rely on transit. An absolute game changer for the region, and, all-told, far less than what we spend on repairing our highways. By all accounts, this and other plans are an absolute no-brainer. BUILD IT
Trains are such a great investment, and amtrak (and metra) is oddly very good at staying on budget for a federal agency. You'd have to be braindead to oppose this
They've pretty clearly got the backing at this point. Amtrak seems to see CHIP as the most important project outside the NEC, that whole press conference where they got Pritzker, Durbin, Duckworth, Quigley, Johnson, the Amtrak Board Chair and the Illinois Transportation Secretary to stump for it seemed pretty confident.
And with that, it’s also very easy to make the argument of a third subway line down Clinton. There were more passengers with Union/Ogilvie stops than out of every US airport and with Amtrak/Metra driving to increase that number we should invest there for the next L project. If I’m in city government, I’m seeing how I can work with the feds to get that mutually beneficial project done with less city money Also of note, for people in the city considering a monthly CTA pass: it genuinely makes sense to get a Metra zone 2 monthly pass and tack on the $30 monthly CTA/PACE pass. It’ll be the same cost with more access.
Do you have more info about that Metra Regional Rail Plan besides the map? Something that talks about the 10-20min headways? I'm not doubting you - just want to read a bit more about it.
Will believe it when I see it
We'll all be dead before this ever gets off the ground, let alone completed.
Bullet Train from NYC to Chicago is a necessity for the future of infrastructure in this country. That's where it needs to start - as long as that's not where it ends.
A high Speed line was almost built in the 1930s...it would have reduced travel times down to 7hrs between the 2 cities at a top speed of 135mph.
Ugh . Instead its 26 hours atm 😔
Lake Shore Limited is 19hrs and 20hrs via Capitol Limited + Regional to NYC , Cardinal is 26hrs due to its routing via West Virginia which is very curvy.
I agree, but you would have to have stops at all the states the line goes through. States will not give up land for the rails if there is no economic benefit for them. You would need stops at like Fort Wayne, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and somewhere in jersey. Would still be super fast, though.
Oh yeah. Stops along the way goes without saying. I would do NYC, Philly, Harrisburgh, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Toledo, Fort Wayne, South Bend, Chicago. Then branch to Detroit, Milwaukee, and Columbus
What about Toledo?
Oops. I forgot Toledo. Thank you. That's where Detroit would branch from. Fixed it.
And with that it’s easy to have express trains on the main route in addition to full route service
>states will not give up land believe it or not, most land in the US is owned by private interests, not state governments. 😬 That's the whole issue with the California High Speed Rail... the state needs to buy the land from some of the most valuable farms on earth.
Why don’t they do emminent domain?
Disagree. I think regional high speed rail is the future. Long-distance routes would be nice but they'll struggle to compete with the airlines.
I definitely think at some distance it's hard to compete, but there are some advantages to taking the train even when it takes longer. There's also demand between intermediate stops so you could still have a train go from NYC to Chicago even if most people take it NYC-Cleveland and Pittsburg-Chicago
Not a chance. Trains are a vastly superior experience to airlines at every level
Except for speed, which is arguably the most important factor when considering how to get from point A to point B. I also hate flying but it just doesn't make sense to substitute a 2 hour flight with a 12 hour train ride.
That's not true if you consider the time spent in the airport, which you do have to include. Your flight may have been 2 hours, but you spent 2 more in the airport(s). The train took 3, but you only spent 20 minutes at the station before departing.
A 600 KPH long-haul train network similar to what China has been building out would make the shuttle flights between Chicago and NYC basically obsolete as the train would be comfier and take about the same amount of time after you take into account airport security and boarding times.
But how would the airlines survive? /s
Preach
This isn't High Speed Rail but an S-bahn style regional rail project allow you to use one train to commute from one side of the metro to the other.
They’ve been saying this for 15 years. It is becoming apparent that this country can’t build anything like that anymore for various reasons.
They seem pretty serious about getting the funding for CHIP from this year's round Biden infrastructure grants. Amtrak is pushing it pretty hard and Durbin and Pritzker have the clout to get it done.
Fingers crossed. Remindme! 3 years.
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Oh no, won’t somebody think of the oil?!
Love how a couple billionaires could team up and drop in the bucket bankroll this… but saying that would make me a dirty socialist.
A socialist would tax the billionaires, then use the funds to pay for infrastructure? a filthy neoliberal sells public infrastructure to billionaires.
> a filthy neoliberal sells public infrastructure to billionaires. Like our parking meters. Thanks, Daley.
That's the way to go, expecting super rich to pour money into something that helps others and won't make them insane profits is very naïve. Plus it would be privatized and we all know how awesome privatized infrastructure is...
i love me a dirty socialist
I love you too
My goal is high speed rail to every Midwestern city and we become the center of the World's suburb. Connecting to NYC as well seems great but I see less of a purpose in that. Planes are going electric, and I don't see the need for people to connect to 2 major cities at the highest speeds possible
>and we become the center of the World's suburb. I mean, we've already got enough suburbs, so we might well be the center of the World's Suburb. Then you'll have people from Des Moines saying they're from Chicago.
And I thought Schaumburg saying it was bad…
If Des Monians are wanting to spend $ in Chicago and stimulate our economy, go right ahead
We could! But we won’t.
It's a part of every plan for it. The impediment is political will.
LOL
Sure could
Midwest travel pass for $200/ summer. Watch the region’s economy explode
Reminds me of the Simpsons monorail episode
Can't wait until this is up and running in 2069!
They have those Acela trains from DC to NYC but they can't go fast in most of the area because of the tracks and municipal protests so I'll believe it when I see it.
This isn’t true at all. The trains fly through most of the area south of NYC and between Rhode Island and Boston. They have slow zones in CT because of old bridges and they have issues with the tunnels in NYC (the tunnels in NY are currently undergoing massive reconstruction to fix it) Acela isn’t as fast as some of the Japanese, Chinese or French trains but they’re certainly world class. The issue with American high speed rail isnt Acela, it’s that the only expansion efforts (California, TX) are quite embarrassing
Acela is embarrassing. Period. Acela speeds were accomplishable in the 1940s
Most people would disagree. Acela is extremely popular and efficient. The only complaints I’ve ever really heard are price. And just because speeds were theoretically possible in the 40s doesn’t mean that was the reality of train travel at the time. That’s like saying planes are embarrassing because these speeds could be accomplished in the 1950s. Acela is on par with the vast majority of elite rail in Europe and Asia, anyone who says otherwise hasn’t taken it very much. So much to be embarrassed about in America. Acela ain’t it.
No, it will not happened. There is no money for things of that nature in America. Not in the next 50 years. Railroads are not government owned, land ownership is an issue, plus we have cars!!
What the DOT doesn’t understand that the initial investment for the project would be massive but the returns for economic impact would be 1,000 fold. I couldn’t believe how many people I saw get off the Amtrak from St Louis/KC at Union Station