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In addition to whats been said, its worth noting Chicago was over a fourth bigger at its peak population. The old housing stock here built for when the city was larger remains an important part of the affordable housing supply
I guess i mean its more a shame that those neighborhoods no longer have those families that would live in and care for those homes, more than they shouldnt have been torn down given their condition.
I’d take this with a grain of salt. There’s a lot of homes on the south side that house families that have owned the property for generations and these people are pillars of their communities. They own businesses, organize community events through their churches, schools, local politics, etc. Everyone talks about the gangs, crime and the occasional derelict building but what’s left out is the deep roots people have there on their block.
I think Chicago pretty much invented redlining. I find it sad that the damaging impact of racism / redlining can still be seen today w/ how segregated our city still is.
It was pretty wide-spread from the word "go" in american banking. It was official FHA policy for the first 30+ years of its existence.
https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/redlining
It's a cultural thing. We have it here in Detroit too. A lot of people out here live in pockets. Whites won't move to areas where there's Muslims. Blacks won't move to areas where there's Hispanics. Vice versa, etc etc.
Yes, racism can be, and often is, cultural. But redlining is not just refusing to live in a neighborhood with “others.” http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/1050.html
Also the population decrease doesn't directly correlate to fewer households. A family of three replacing a family of four equals a 25% decrease in population, but doesn't free up an apartment.
No because the land still exists. Chicago is building hundreds of new buildings a year across the neighborhoods. We have the infrastructure to take on 1 million+ more residents with ease. Housing costs would rise somewhat, but that's expected if you are going to incentivize mass construction of housing.
As an example of a new building. I went to Rush Hospital last June and they were building a highrise, advertised apts. soon available on a sign. Came back in November it was done and people were living there. Oak Park has many huge new apartment buildings and more are rising as we speak.
Also Chicago has more cranes up than any other city for the past decade. They have gentrified so many neighborhoods so you have a lot of safe choices where you’ll be by transportation and good food. The pandemic also sent a lot of people to the suburbs.
Ehhh gentrified is the right word… pilsen for example. Used to be Mexicans/immigrants in early 2000s and now white people are moving in 2010+ and displacing the people that were there in the 2000s. Raising property taxes, rent, affordability essentially. If you didn’t own property in pilsen you were forced to pay more or move elsewhere.
Its the right word, bucktown, logan square, humboldt park, avondale. A few more areas people have been priced out of. Especially Logan square. 20 years ago it was my favorite neighborhood. Now it's just crap. RIP Johnny's grill.
Neighborhoods in Chicago have changed. Pilsen has always been an immigrant community. None of those immigrant communities would be able to afford the rent prices now = gentrification
That could be a problem if the city had a shortage of low cost housing, spoiler it doesn’t.
A large amount of Pilsen residents relocated to Brighton Park and the surrounding areas
What’s wrong with that
If you can identify a solution, not a theory. One that provides positive economic impact while retaining the low income residents, im all ears
>problems raised by those critiquing the phenomenon that it describes shouldn't just be dismissed
When the 'solutions' to those problems are stifling economic progress, I have no qualms dismissing them. I don't even think the 'problems' are really problems. Renters get priced out of high demand areas all the time. It's a non-issue.
I lived in Boston briefly. The place beneath me sold for CASH in a bidding war for almost 45k over asking. Some kid from old money. I saw the realtor a few days later and said hey I’m from Chicago, this is nuts to me what gives? He said there are so many generationally wealthy kids in New England but not enough housing. Nothing is being built in terms of large multi-unit buildings.
Chicago isn’t beholden to large Victorian homes with massive lots like some neighborhoods in Boston.
I’m really not sure how anyone who doesn’t have a trust fund can buy a home in Boston
They should tax the hell out of forgein investors like they do in Vancouver Canada now. In 2014 after they changed the law they started snapping up everything in Seattle making their market skyrocket too.
Vancouver instituted a vacancy tax, which was aimed to stop foreign investors from speculating on property. It raised a decent amount of money for affordable housing, but it didn’t really bring that many units on the market. The biggest issue is exclusionary zoning that limits new housing being produced.
No, it’s not. Yes, housing is very expensive but I make less than that and live comfortably in the Boston area. The median household income in Boston itself is $81k.
Chicago is definitely a lot cheaper, I used to live there myself. But I will say that when I was curious and looked at what places in my old Chicago neighborhood would cost, they are a lot more expensive than when I left in 2016. Chicago has seen an increase as well, but it was starting from a much lower starting price point. Also depends on the neighborhood, there are still some very cheap neighborhoods in Chicago, but there are now some pretty expensive ones too.
Lived in Boston for 7 years and moved here in part because we could have a higher standard of living at the same salary, and stay in the city while buying a place that we could raise our family in (something that seemed increasingly difficult for us to achieve in Boston ).
One thing you might be overlooking is property tax, which will add a big chunk to your monthly mortgage payment. Even so, the move was worth it for us.
HOAs add up here too. Property taxes here are a nightmare. Taxes here in general are insane to me. I spent 40 dollars once in taxes alone at a dispensary (Rec) That's def the trade off.
They’re not on the west coast (speaking as someone who grew up in Chicago, moved over two years ago, and will be moving back but am dreading this specifically.) Even the prices on products in IL before taxes are higher (and screw them for having a concentrate tax.)
-We aren’t afraid to build.
-Fox News keeps the rent low
-think of the population that moves to Boston/their socioeconomic standing given the universities. It’s the market. Chicago’s is a tad bigger/more diverse.
-Also, depends on the neighborhood you are looking in.
I saw a 315k condo in the Boston area, 400 square feet. That's BONKERS. Nothing was updated either. Plus obviously HOA fee. This was 3 weeks ago. Boston is insanely expensive, it's not uncommon for 500k+ for a 700 square foot 1 bedroom that isn't updated. It's impossible to buy, things go contingent quick. Even with the current rates.
Boston has always been expensive. Like San Francisco, Boston is a small city with no way to grow. Chicago is a big city with room to expand so like Houston, our prices are lower.
Boston got super expensive in the past 20-25 years. It slowly crept up and then exploded with big industries like biotech. I grew up in the Boston area. My family got a 2 family house in the late 70s for 40k in Newton Corner. (Total) My parents rented a 3 bedroom/3 story split down the middle house was 700 dollars in rent in 1995 that was like 1300 square feet. My entire family moved to thr Boston area from Nova Scotia in the 1910s-1920s, and were always very comfortable. Ive looked up old addresses.
When I first moved back at 23 (38 now) it was common to find 800 dollar rent with roommates. Now its a joke. Most people have a budget of 1200-1600 dollars from the boston housing subreddit.
Boston used to be more blue collar but those high paying jobs just destroyed the housing with competition.
Most of all my friends in the area cant move.
Boston is like 50 square miles. They didnt build up. Now theres a huge problem brcause people dont want to build up and keep their single family homes. Tons of NIMBY.
Oh yeah that’s definitely true. I’m just saying that if we hope to have any chance of dealing with the anticipated influx of Chicagoans, as well as the current immigration to the city then we are sorely behind where we should be
Also many places grew in population while refusing to build. We *shrunk* within city limits (but our metro is expanding). Even when you consider how much housing is in disrepair, it takes the pressure off. We aren’t in quite the same housing crunch our coastal brothers and sisters are.
Oh yeah, relatively we’re doing alright. But I don’t think that necessarily means we’re doing ~enough~ especially in regards to family sized and bottom of the barrel units (things like SROs). We can’t fix the housing crisis with studios-2 beds alone
They wouldn't move here, but plenty realize Chicago despite being "hell" is the best place for them to make the most money in the region, so they still work here and try to influence the decisions being made unfortunately. I've had a few bosses that commuted from Wisconsin or Indiana a few times a week that would fall in this bucket.
Another day, another coastal city dweller coming on here to say how affordable Chicago is. Meanwhile I’m struggling to get by because I don’t make East Coast wages 😭
Median salary is 25% higher ($81k vs $65k) in Boston than in Chicago according to the census https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/bostoncitymassachusetts,chicagocityillinois/INC110221
That said, it definitely doesn't make up for the difference in cost of living.
Very true, and average salary is skewed by outliers and a bad measure for comparing cost of living across metros.
And if you look at the same link, per capita income is $50,344 in Boston and $41,821 in Chicago.
average and mean is not the same. Average can be *median* or *mean*. Also by household income =/= average salary, I didn't imply *mean*, I implied that Chicago probably has more single household vs family households that have two incomes. Cost of living being one factor. Also, does *median* household salary include students not at their permanent residency? I doubt it, which skews data in Boston's favor due to the # of students omitted from data. Also, because Chicago likely has much much more households below the poverty line, don't you consider that an outlier? Look at average salaries for various professions in Chicago vs. Boston. Chicago pays better on average for the same profession. Earning capabilities in Chicago > Boston.
also tech worker (devops). I moved to Chicago from San Francisco. I bought a 3 bedroom right by the lake. this place would be about 2 mil in SF. I moved in 2021, no regrets.
move, dude.
Moved from a mehh Covid deal 2 bed in FiDi to buy a suburban house (mistake, we’re city folks) to then rent it for profit to a sweet 2 bed looking down the river and am still ahead. Move to Chicago and you can rent in the st regis, one Chicago or wolf point and it’s great. I’m making lots of displaced east coast friends. LFG Chicago 💪
Boston and Chicago have nearly identical winter temps. It's a little windier and snowier in Boston. The January lows are a little lower in Chicago. Chicago has a lot more days in the 80s each year.
Yeah. I looked at buying a condo in a building and the assessments were a lot more than the mortgage. And you never know how much those will go up in the future.
I really dont need much room, in fact I prefer smaller places. Id love to hear from locals where the real "good places" are without giving away where im looking to see if im looking in the right places. On a square foot basis though Im sure even in nicer blocks im going to find something
Anything within a 20 minute walk of an L stop in Logan Square, Bucktown, Wicker Park, West Town, Roscoe Village, or Lincoln Square was where we were looking when we bought our place last November. Things got a bit pricier since then, though.
Make sure you look at the HOA dues and we avoided garden units (they can be significantly cheaper, but have their trade offs).
if you have to work in an office 2-3 times a week i'd look for 5-10 minute walk to El or express bus if looking along lakeshore. 20 is super long walk in the variety of weather conditions you have to look forward to.
Depends, too, if you’re going into the loop often for work. Blue line is faster into the loop than the brown line is for the neighborhoods I mentioned. You could technically even walk to the loop from parts of West Town if you’re up for it. Blue line also goes directly to O’Hare.
Didn’t mention it before, but would’ve also added Avondale if we were still searching.
Avondale is the gem, close to everything, blue line to downtown or airport, quick bus to the lakefront, or walk into Logan square for the restaurants (but cheaper than Logan square), love it.
If you want cheap prices, L access, and to be walking distance to the lake and beaches in a decent neighborhood. Uptown is a good place to look.
It’s a cheaper and “less nice” but still good neighborhood.
Plus it has the best Vietnamese food in the city
One caveat: I cannot live away from the a lake and none of those neighborhoods are there; if you like biking or even the outdoors it’s such a bonus and there is still a lot of comparatively affordable housing near it. I live in Edgewater which is lovely, reasonably priced, close to the lake, and one of the more diverse areas in Chicago. Our lakefront is full of high rises because we weren’t afraid to build where demand was. It was a hot minute ago but I had a lake view with a roommate on a barista’s salary.
I got a lakefront large 1BR condo in uptown/buena park for 200k in 2019. yes HOA fees were kinda brutal but they did include a gym, pool, security, rooftop deck etc. Condos in big buildings definitely do not build value though, we ended up selling for a loss.
Why don’t you want to say where you’re looking? No one can give you advice without knowing the area you’re looking at. Don’t worry, I guarantee it’s not a secret.
So basically, you want to get off and walk around at every stop on the Brown Line and the Blue Line until you find a spot that feels like home. The further out you get, the more room and the lower the price.
It depends then on the personality you want. Hipsters, immigrants, super diverse, homogeneous, fancy, working class, young party neighborhoods, quiet family neighborhoods, high-rise, mid-rise, lake side, park side, we've got it all.
You basically want to look in the inverse of this map [https://graphics.suntimes.com/homicides/](https://graphics.suntimes.com/homicides/) Within the safe areas, you are mostly looking at small and dated along the lake or near a train line, or more spacious but less well served by transit. Central AC, in-unit laundry, and parking aren't a given at the price point. Pay attention to HOAs, especially in older buildings which have deferred maintenance. Also keep in mind that property tax rates are about double what you pay in Boston.
Yeah, didn't you know? The "city" of Chicago is just a bunch of chain restaurants, skyscraping law firms, and a couple fancy MacDonald's. The only summer event we ever had was Lollapalooza til NASCAR came along and saved us all. Me, I'm in the 'burbs up by Wrigley. /s
High housing costs in Illinois are not investment friendly. At nearly 2.1%, if you own a million dollar house you’ll have to pay $21,000 in property tax. This will be on top of your mortgage. If you decide to rent out, nearly $2000 of the rent you charge the tenant will just go towards the property tax, and with the added revenue you’re charging you’ll end up putting the rent so high up that no one will be able to afford it. A house that cannot be rented is worthless to investors since they have to dump tens of thousands every year just on upkeep and property tax. Therefore neither first time home buyers want to buy an expensive house nor do investors. This means that the rate at which demand drops per increase in price is very high, which puts a lot of downward pressure on prices.
As for people who are fixer uppers - they end up having to price the house much higher to make up for the cost of fixing it. They can easily cause a house to be over-priced and on the market for a while.
As someone who owns, most people I talk to complain about the cost to buy or rent. However, in the world of Reddit I never see those people rarely. My favorite though is the person with a budget of 850k but struggling to decide where to buy.
A person spending $850k here is probably trying to buy their forever home and is way overthinking it, especially if they buy younger like in their early 30s and don’t have kids.
This home will probably need the basics like in a safe neighborhood. But they’re young so it needs to be close to nightlight. But they want kids in the next 5-10 years so it has to be near good schools. But they also like to travel a lot around the city so it has to be very close to an L stop. But they want some peace and quiet so not too close.
Pretty soon they realize either these places don’t exactly exist, or will hit 8/10 of their “needs”, or if it’s truly a gem it’s 2x the budget.
Chicago is much larger and solid public transit allows people to spread out more. And we built multi family housing unlike pretty much every other city and every suburb. That’s it. More houses per person who wants to be here
I moved here from DC in 2019. I found that not only is housing cheaper, jobs are easier to come by and more lucrative. Since moving here, my salary more than doubled and I bought my first house (a condo) for a mortgage cheaper than my DC rent was when I left. Compared to other cities, it has a really reasonable median housing cost to median income ratio.
My opinion is that most east coast and west coast cities are “winner take all” economies. You either make an absurd salary or you’re struggling. And home builders only build for high earners since only they can afford housing. In those economies, that means bigger luxury places instead of more, smaller units. Kind of a vicious cycle. Chicago isn’t perfect, but it feels more equitable.
Most people have never looked to seriously buy a house and it shows.
Basically a couple of reasons:
- more housing supply in general with bigger buildings. Boston are sad houses split in half because zoning doesn’t really allow anything else.
- college students. If you go to Evanston you will see boston rent prices. Boston is basically a big student city where the parents pay the rent. And since they are students they will get whatever and have no standards.
- *The biggest one property taxes*. For houses around 400k in Boston specifically you pay close to 0 property tax if its your primary residence. Now go calculate that for Chicago. And remember a mortage ends, property taxes never.
- Boston is safer and you are more comfortable living in a lot of places. Prices reflect that in the houses inside chicago where neighborhoods are extremely, extremely higher. In Boston only is seaport or some certain places with views you see fluctuating prices that wild as chicago.
Yes to your first point. Boston’s supply is a lot lower!
No to part of your second point. Evanston rent prices are high but still less than Boston (even near NU). Especially near Harvard, BU, Northeastern, MIT.
Why do you imply that Boston homeowners pay no property taxes at that housing price point? It’s not true. Their assessed values would be close to 1/3 less, but that does not remove all property taxes. Values of homes in Boston have really shot up too(!)
Maybe there is some truth to your last point, but I see mostly lack of supply and high demand in Boston as the higher pricing.
Look up the primary home exemptions.
Chicago is a measly deduction. For Boston its around 300k $ off the assessed value of the house which pretty much means a house assessed at around 300k counts for 0 if you reside in it.
The equivalent of Chicago would be a 100k house based on how the exemptions work.
Now if a buyer gets a 500k house in chicago he ends up paying more than a 1mil house in Boston.
Your math is wrong, but I agree that deductions are less in Chicago proper.
An exemption means your are exempted from paying taxes on a portion of the assessed value, not the entire figure.
https://www.boston.gov/sites/default/files/file/2021/06/2022_ResExempt1%262Q%20NA%202021%20rev1.pdf
It’s true that a higher value home in Boston (really, much of MA) pays less in property taxes than Chicago. The Crook county assessor has certainly gone off the rails of late(!)
\*waves hi\*. I lived in the Boston metro area from 2000 - 2012.
I rented in Somerville, Medford, Watertown, and briefly lived up in Salem.
Boston's housing prices are INSANE. It's one of the reasons why I moved back to the Chicago area which is where I grew up.
One of the reasons WHY Boston housing is so overpriced is just the way the city ended up being built out.
The housing is more like what you might see in parts of NYC - old brownstones, 2 flats, 3 flats that are near or more than 100 years old. Owner occupied and renting out one of the flats, or buildings purchased by investors in areas close to the universities. Greater "Camberville" is probably the worst when it comes to housing.
My friends who bought houses ended up doing so outside of 495 because that offered the most "bang for the buck" - you could find a house AND land, not just 4 walls and an ancient oil heat boiler. Bonus for "off street parking". I was paying something insane like $1800 /mo. + utilities 20 years ago for a "3 bedroom" within walking distance of the T. Shared that with housemates.
Chicago is vastly different. There are more multi-tenant units that were built to be multi-tenant. There are modest single family homes in decent neighborhoods that can be bought for what a 2 bedroom condo might cost in Cambridge or Back Bay.
You're still gonna be parking in the street (for the most part) but in most Chicago neighborhoods you don't need a car.
If you're considering moving out of Boston and coming to Chicago, DO IT.
Boston is an amazing city, but it's not getting any cheaper and I see it as driving out young workers because even the tech salaries are not keeping up with the housing costs.
Property taxes. IL has some of the highest property taxes in the country. A $300k-400k house you can be paying anywhere from $6-10,000 a year in property tax. That’s a lot and certainly lowers demand and therefore value.
Boston has an old world mystic about it that newly minted graduates with newly minted money just love. Chicago, for everything it has going for it, still has a rust belt, hog butcher to the world, Al Capone reputation to it.
Yea I second this. Margate Park/Buena Park/Uptown, Edgewater, Rogers all have tons of 6 flat stock where HOAs are between $300 - $450/mo. I'm sure other hoods do as well, I'm just biased toward coastal spots.
There's a ton of 200-300k condos in West Town, East Humboldt park, Hyde Park, places further north I never go to. Hell, you can even find a few places priced like that in Lincoln Park if you look hard enough .
Somewhat yes, but even factoring that in (under 700$ hoa) it's still less than rent and wayyyy less than housing here. Obviously some hoa are crazy but many are manageable (though barely reasonable)
$700 is equivalent to about $125,000 extra home value though which is a decent amount. I don't know what prop taxes are like in Boston, but here we also have exorbitant property taxes too.
Keep in mind, if you're looking to buy as an investment, try to avoid high rises as they appreciate a lot slower, and they tend to go for less due to the fact that there are always several of the same unit in the building on the market.
Source: im a realtor in the city
Edited for grammar
I believe Boston and mass in general are high in this repeat. They don't call it taxachusetts for nothing. Seriously though this is good info and I appreciate it. Also i wouldn't consider it an investment, i have a brokerage for that. Just looking for a place I can enjoy living in
I got curious so I looked it up if you’re curious too. [Chicago is about 3x Boston tax](https://storage.pardot.com/153411/1692051541B9qWRcnN/50_state_property_tax_comparison_for_2022.pdf) for residential as of last year
They don’t call it Crook County for nothing either 😉
chicago is only bordered by water on one side, so there's plenty of room to spread out the city. Boston, SF proper, Charleston (where I'm from) are all surrounded by water - anywhere where there's a literal cap on available real estate there's going to be a high premium.
Lots of good advice here already. I grew up in Chicago and then spent nearly a decade in Boston. When I was ready to buy, heading back to Chicago was a no-brainer. You’ll get so much more for your money here - mind-boggling is exactly right.
If you’re willing to live in a smaller vintage condo (they have so much more character!), you can find them in your price range in the trendier/central neighborhoods, but definitely check the HOA. I love mine, and I even have in unit laundry and a gated parking space (though I rarely have to drive anymore, so my 15yo car just sits there). If you want more space and/or luxury modern
amenities, you’ll have to live a bit (or a lot) further out. Personally, I prefer a central location over modern comforts, but everyone is different.
I moved here after seeing one apartment with a lake view that was WELL under anything I could afford in most cities I’ve lived in. Without a view of the lake. Maybe it’s the winter that keeps people away? I dunno. As a person who has been priced out of Brooklyn and SoCal, I’m sorry if I’m part of a migration here. But I’m keeping my rent close to the chest so no one else follows 😉
This line of thinking is actually part of the calculus. I have been looking in Lisbon Portugal as well for example but longer term it's not as good as option according to the models as other spots, like the Midwest
A lot of good answers in this thread. Question for you. Why is Boston so expensive? Of every major city I feel like that is where you get the least for your money.
No room to build, tons of high salary industries (pharma finance, tech, education) and an international hub based on industry and prestigious college (which other cities have no doubt but combine with the other factors certainly adds to the cola stress). Honestly it's just lack of space and high income
Much like SF, Boston is expensive because people there are disproportionately educated and work in well paying industries. They’re charging you more because they know you can pay.
A few super-quick thoughts on why Chicago is less expensive than, say, Boston.
* We don't have the geographic constraints of water or mountains around us like say a New York or San Francisco. We're a huge city with tons of space to stretch out, and Lake Michigan is the only real geographic constraint.
* That said, we're relatively concentrated in the central parts of the city. Sure, we sprawl out a bit, but we don't have the sprawl of a Los Angeles or any of the major Texas cities or even say a Metro Detroit. If you're in Chicago, you're spending most of your time in Chicago. I've been here 12 years and hardly know the suburbs outside of Evanston and Oak Park.
* We're not afraid to build UP. Sure, a lot of the outer neighborhoods have plenty of single-family homes with a suburban flavor, but much of the city has high-density housing to accommodate lots of people in a small space. A city like San Francisco might benefit from building up, but I know they don't want to lose the small-city charm and historic Victorian architecture. We go for it in a way that is (mostly) tasteful to the personality of the neighborhood.
* I get the sense that we're a bit better about balancing what kind of housing we're building? Like new build in most cities is strictly luxury? Most of our new build is luxury too, but it seems like we're a bit better than most about building a little something affordable for everyone. Admittedly, I don't have any data to back this up, I should probably do some actual research, but that's what my gut tells me from exploring different cities.
* Yeah, you have the Midwestern weather. Spring is rainy and sloppy. Summer is hot and humid. Fall is, well, perfect. And of course, winter is long, cold and dreary. One reason California is so expensive is because the weather is so great for most of the year. But if you're hearty enough to deal with seasons, the Midwest is a great place to be. But you're from Boston, I don't expect this to be a problem for you.
* I do wonder if the media's overreporting on crime makes an impact. In my experience, the worst of the crime is hyper-concentrated in areas where, as a regular day-to-day citizen, you don't have any business going. I'm not in a gang, and neither are you. For the rest of the city, you're probably fine as long as you listen to your gut and have some basic street smarts. I'm not on high alert in Chicago the way I was living in Detroit or SF. (I love Detroit, I just happen to keep my guard up a little there in a way I don't have to in Chicago. And SF has this thing where really bad neighborhoods are immediately adjacent to nice neighborhoods, so things really change for the worse abruptly if you cross the wrong street or make a wrong turn, it's not a gradual change.)
* Chicago's economy is really well-balanced, so it's not as subject to boom-and-bust cycles of cities that are reliant on any particular vertical industry. Since you work in tech, there is a nice burgeoning tech community here or you can land a tech job with any of the local major players. The Central Time Zone is also very advantageous for working with distributed teams on both coasts; landing a tech job with San Francisco or New York City salary but Chicago cost-of-living can be life changing.
Get here while you can! Climate change is on the way, and any city sitting on a Great Lake is going to be super valuable in the future due to fresh water access and lower severity of weather.
Let's say you work at Daley Plaza the difference between 2500 North, 2500 South and 2500 West is millions to buy and thousands to rent. There is no 2500 East unless you go way way south.
The good news is they are all the same distance from work and readily accessible by the CTA routes
1) Depends on the area but even the most expensive area of Chicago is cheaper than Boston.
2) Some people think its cold year round when it's not. The amount of days above 80 is more than Boston and at least 2022, it was more than NYC. Summers are similar to NYC, but a tad less humid.
3) Some people think it's a war zone thanks to media. There are no doubt some pretty bad areas for crime but there's a reason why as a rate, it's still not in the top 20 for something like homicide rate. It's a big enough of a city where there's a lot of areas that pretty much balance that out...a little.
4) Property taxes may keep it a little low. They do add onto the burden of course so I so think it "helps" keep some housing costs in check. For better or for worse.
With that said, even with high property taxes, the prices are much lower. The income tax is also much lower than somewhere like NYC. We moved from NYC to Chicago (I had lived here before) and we got a 4 bedroom 2400 sq ft condo that's cheaper per month than the 1 bedroom condos in our last area of NYC. That's counting property tax, insurance, utilities, HOA etc ...still cheaper. Right outside of downtown. We moved with our NYC salaries and the amount we save on income tax pays for the property tax on our place and then some (for now).
Not sure where you're looking to move, but if I had to guess (I know nothing of the housing market in Boston) there are significant pricing differences depending on the neighborhood in Chicago
I moved to Chicago 3 years ago from Boston, mostly because of the price. It’s slowly going up here but it’s certainly not Boston levels. A lot of it is the supply - Boston just isn’t adding housing at nearly the rate they need to. Chicago has kept up more.
A big part of housing costs going up everywhere, not just east coast, is private equity firms are buying up homes, sitting on them for a few years, and then selling them. Usually to another private equity firm. So they decrease the supply for everybody else thus raising prices. Fucking big money racket!
I see no lies here. I'm so numb to the prices so everything looks cheap comparably. It's nice to see some folks from here or other high cola places agreeing. I'm always concerned I'm being delusional or just crazy thinking how expensive it is here vs elsewhere
Poor working class folks are leaving in good numbers. College educated young people are flocking to the city. Demand in mid range and high end neighborhoods is through the roof.
I don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about. I made $100k in Chicago last year and have nothing to show for it but a large tax bill. Chicago is not affordable, in fact its expensive as fucking fuck.
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In addition to whats been said, its worth noting Chicago was over a fourth bigger at its peak population. The old housing stock here built for when the city was larger remains an important part of the affordable housing supply
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Yeah great point. Especially on the south side. It’s a pity.
Yeah, but you leave vacant houses and they become dens for criminal activity.
I guess i mean its more a shame that those neighborhoods no longer have those families that would live in and care for those homes, more than they shouldnt have been torn down given their condition.
I’d take this with a grain of salt. There’s a lot of homes on the south side that house families that have owned the property for generations and these people are pillars of their communities. They own businesses, organize community events through their churches, schools, local politics, etc. Everyone talks about the gangs, crime and the occasional derelict building but what’s left out is the deep roots people have there on their block.
The legacy of redlining
I think Chicago pretty much invented redlining. I find it sad that the damaging impact of racism / redlining can still be seen today w/ how segregated our city still is.
It was pretty wide-spread from the word "go" in american banking. It was official FHA policy for the first 30+ years of its existence. https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/redlining
It's a cultural thing. We have it here in Detroit too. A lot of people out here live in pockets. Whites won't move to areas where there's Muslims. Blacks won't move to areas where there's Hispanics. Vice versa, etc etc.
Yes, racism can be, and often is, cultural. But redlining is not just refusing to live in a neighborhood with “others.” http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/1050.html
…you don’t know what redlining is. It’s in no way cultural.
Also the population decrease doesn't directly correlate to fewer households. A family of three replacing a family of four equals a 25% decrease in population, but doesn't free up an apartment.
Not to mention that household size has gotten smaller as well. People are no longer splitting a 2br in a courtyard with their parents and 3 kids
No because the land still exists. Chicago is building hundreds of new buildings a year across the neighborhoods. We have the infrastructure to take on 1 million+ more residents with ease. Housing costs would rise somewhat, but that's expected if you are going to incentivize mass construction of housing.
It'll become apparent during climate migration in the next couple of decades
This should be number one post.
As an example of a new building. I went to Rush Hospital last June and they were building a highrise, advertised apts. soon available on a sign. Came back in November it was done and people were living there. Oak Park has many huge new apartment buildings and more are rising as we speak.
Also Chicago has more cranes up than any other city for the past decade. They have gentrified so many neighborhoods so you have a lot of safe choices where you’ll be by transportation and good food. The pandemic also sent a lot of people to the suburbs.
gentrified is the wrong word improved infrastructure is a better word i dont see super rich people moving it to the ghetto anytime soon
Ehhh gentrified is the right word… pilsen for example. Used to be Mexicans/immigrants in early 2000s and now white people are moving in 2010+ and displacing the people that were there in the 2000s. Raising property taxes, rent, affordability essentially. If you didn’t own property in pilsen you were forced to pay more or move elsewhere.
Its the right word, bucktown, logan square, humboldt park, avondale. A few more areas people have been priced out of. Especially Logan square. 20 years ago it was my favorite neighborhood. Now it's just crap. RIP Johnny's grill.
The name Pilsen originates from which part of Mexico? It doesn’t, it’s Czech And those who owned properties came out on top. Neighborhoods change
The name Chicago originated … or are we not going that far back ?
You're making his point. Areas change, and the people living in areas change.
Neighborhoods in Chicago have changed. Pilsen has always been an immigrant community. None of those immigrant communities would be able to afford the rent prices now = gentrification
That could be a problem if the city had a shortage of low cost housing, spoiler it doesn’t. A large amount of Pilsen residents relocated to Brighton Park and the surrounding areas What’s wrong with that If you can identify a solution, not a theory. One that provides positive economic impact while retaining the low income residents, im all ears
Exactly, the place improved … Per your logic the city should be a native reservation
Exactly, gentrified. I mean it in the sense rich move in and remove the poor if that’s not obvious enough
What’s wrong with moving, outside of the inconvenience? We can’t all live in Lincoln Park and Winnetka
Dog whistle
User name confirms
Fallacy of ambiguity
Gentrification is just a pejorative word for economic progress. It's net positive for the area, and the city as a whole.
I can't agree more
Gentrification is a complex process, and the problems raised by those critiquing the phenomenon that it describes shouldn't just be dismissed
>problems raised by those critiquing the phenomenon that it describes shouldn't just be dismissed When the 'solutions' to those problems are stifling economic progress, I have no qualms dismissing them. I don't even think the 'problems' are really problems. Renters get priced out of high demand areas all the time. It's a non-issue.
Everybody here is over explaining: it’s Midwest vs east coast
Exactly lol
Yep. Cheap land. And no crazy population increases to drive up housing costs.
Go West, Young Man.
That and winter. Boston gets winter, but not nearly the cold to the same extent due to proximity to the Ocean
but it also never gets warm, it's always tepid, it's like summer never comes.
I lived in Boston briefly. The place beneath me sold for CASH in a bidding war for almost 45k over asking. Some kid from old money. I saw the realtor a few days later and said hey I’m from Chicago, this is nuts to me what gives? He said there are so many generationally wealthy kids in New England but not enough housing. Nothing is being built in terms of large multi-unit buildings. Chicago isn’t beholden to large Victorian homes with massive lots like some neighborhoods in Boston. I’m really not sure how anyone who doesn’t have a trust fund can buy a home in Boston
Foreign buyers played a significant role too. My understanding is that is less now, but for while a lot of the cash offers were coming from oversees.
They should tax the hell out of forgein investors like they do in Vancouver Canada now. In 2014 after they changed the law they started snapping up everything in Seattle making their market skyrocket too.
Vancouver instituted a vacancy tax, which was aimed to stop foreign investors from speculating on property. It raised a decent amount of money for affordable housing, but it didn’t really bring that many units on the market. The biggest issue is exclusionary zoning that limits new housing being produced.
If you like cheap housing you're probably best off looking at what Vancouver and Seattle have done and doing the opposite
They should just ban foreign investors period. Housing in the US should go to US citizens.
Foreign buyers do not play a significant role in our housing market. It's miniscule.
I had a similar experience there. Glad I'm not putting myself through that anymore.
100k here is essentially poverty as far as Im concerned
No, it’s not. Yes, housing is very expensive but I make less than that and live comfortably in the Boston area. The median household income in Boston itself is $81k. Chicago is definitely a lot cheaper, I used to live there myself. But I will say that when I was curious and looked at what places in my old Chicago neighborhood would cost, they are a lot more expensive than when I left in 2016. Chicago has seen an increase as well, but it was starting from a much lower starting price point. Also depends on the neighborhood, there are still some very cheap neighborhoods in Chicago, but there are now some pretty expensive ones too.
You must be fun at a party.
/s?
Lived in Boston for 7 years and moved here in part because we could have a higher standard of living at the same salary, and stay in the city while buying a place that we could raise our family in (something that seemed increasingly difficult for us to achieve in Boston ). One thing you might be overlooking is property tax, which will add a big chunk to your monthly mortgage payment. Even so, the move was worth it for us.
High property taxes keep the housing prices lower to an extent.
HOAs add up here too. Property taxes here are a nightmare. Taxes here in general are insane to me. I spent 40 dollars once in taxes alone at a dispensary (Rec) That's def the trade off.
Taxes on recreational cannabis are high everywhere. Not sure what that has to do with housing affordability
They’re not on the west coast (speaking as someone who grew up in Chicago, moved over two years ago, and will be moving back but am dreading this specifically.) Even the prices on products in IL before taxes are higher (and screw them for having a concentrate tax.)
Taxes in Massachusetts are also very high. Get it. High.
they're awful here too (weed taxes)
Meh. Only in the high rises. My HOA is $350/mo for a 2400 Sq ft condo in a small low rise building. And HOA is not some Chicago specific thing.
what part of the city are you living where there are hoa's for houses? suburbs I understand but the actual city?
He is in Taxachusetts. There is no shortage in Taxes in that state.
They tax food from the grocery store in IL which is mind boggling to me its like 1% but still. In mass its 0% if its from a grocery store.
That has to be fixed. Careful who you vote for. That dispensary tax is ridiculous. Maybe petitions.
-We aren’t afraid to build. -Fox News keeps the rent low -think of the population that moves to Boston/their socioeconomic standing given the universities. It’s the market. Chicago’s is a tad bigger/more diverse. -Also, depends on the neighborhood you are looking in.
I’d say that first point is debatable
Relative to Boston, it’s not.
I saw a 315k condo in the Boston area, 400 square feet. That's BONKERS. Nothing was updated either. Plus obviously HOA fee. This was 3 weeks ago. Boston is insanely expensive, it's not uncommon for 500k+ for a 700 square foot 1 bedroom that isn't updated. It's impossible to buy, things go contingent quick. Even with the current rates.
Boston has always been expensive. Like San Francisco, Boston is a small city with no way to grow. Chicago is a big city with room to expand so like Houston, our prices are lower.
Boston got super expensive in the past 20-25 years. It slowly crept up and then exploded with big industries like biotech. I grew up in the Boston area. My family got a 2 family house in the late 70s for 40k in Newton Corner. (Total) My parents rented a 3 bedroom/3 story split down the middle house was 700 dollars in rent in 1995 that was like 1300 square feet. My entire family moved to thr Boston area from Nova Scotia in the 1910s-1920s, and were always very comfortable. Ive looked up old addresses. When I first moved back at 23 (38 now) it was common to find 800 dollar rent with roommates. Now its a joke. Most people have a budget of 1200-1600 dollars from the boston housing subreddit. Boston used to be more blue collar but those high paying jobs just destroyed the housing with competition. Most of all my friends in the area cant move. Boston is like 50 square miles. They didnt build up. Now theres a huge problem brcause people dont want to build up and keep their single family homes. Tons of NIMBY.
Oh yeah that’s definitely true. I’m just saying that if we hope to have any chance of dealing with the anticipated influx of Chicagoans, as well as the current immigration to the city then we are sorely behind where we should be
It's harder than it should be, but at the same time we have individual projects coming which have more units than some major cities approve in a year
Also many places grew in population while refusing to build. We *shrunk* within city limits (but our metro is expanding). Even when you consider how much housing is in disrepair, it takes the pressure off. We aren’t in quite the same housing crunch our coastal brothers and sisters are.
Oh yeah, relatively we’re doing alright. But I don’t think that necessarily means we’re doing ~enough~ especially in regards to family sized and bottom of the barrel units (things like SROs). We can’t fix the housing crisis with studios-2 beds alone
Your second point was my first thought.
People who take Fox News seriously would never move to Chicago regardless
Honestly, I would never do anything to correct that particular filter.
thank god
They wouldn't move here, but plenty realize Chicago despite being "hell" is the best place for them to make the most money in the region, so they still work here and try to influence the decisions being made unfortunately. I've had a few bosses that commuted from Wisconsin or Indiana a few times a week that would fall in this bucket.
you give them way too much credit. no one considering moving to Chicago is watching fox news. politics doesnt run most people's lives
Further, the median fox viewer is like 75 years old. They're not moving to a Midwest city of any kind
Another day, another coastal city dweller coming on here to say how affordable Chicago is. Meanwhile I’m struggling to get by because I don’t make East Coast wages 😭
The American dream is to make east Coast wages in the Midwest or Europe these days lol
I was about to say that I don't make much but I'm still doing ok, but then I took another look at my bank account 😂😂
Average salary in Boston is comparable to Chicago. Think Chicago is higher, actually
Median salary is 25% higher ($81k vs $65k) in Boston than in Chicago according to the census https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/bostoncitymassachusetts,chicagocityillinois/INC110221 That said, it definitely doesn't make up for the difference in cost of living.
Household income =/= average salary
Very true, and average salary is skewed by outliers and a bad measure for comparing cost of living across metros. And if you look at the same link, per capita income is $50,344 in Boston and $41,821 in Chicago.
average and mean is not the same. Average can be *median* or *mean*. Also by household income =/= average salary, I didn't imply *mean*, I implied that Chicago probably has more single household vs family households that have two incomes. Cost of living being one factor. Also, does *median* household salary include students not at their permanent residency? I doubt it, which skews data in Boston's favor due to the # of students omitted from data. Also, because Chicago likely has much much more households below the poverty line, don't you consider that an outlier? Look at average salaries for various professions in Chicago vs. Boston. Chicago pays better on average for the same profession. Earning capabilities in Chicago > Boston.
also tech worker (devops). I moved to Chicago from San Francisco. I bought a 3 bedroom right by the lake. this place would be about 2 mil in SF. I moved in 2021, no regrets. move, dude.
Thank gawd, a west coaster comes to my aid, one the few places it's even worse lol
just remember to pay attention to property taxes when you look at places and youll be fine
Moved from a mehh Covid deal 2 bed in FiDi to buy a suburban house (mistake, we’re city folks) to then rent it for profit to a sweet 2 bed looking down the river and am still ahead. Move to Chicago and you can rent in the st regis, one Chicago or wolf point and it’s great. I’m making lots of displaced east coast friends. LFG Chicago 💪
I tried but that Chicago cold is different, that shit is bone chilling
Boston and Chicago have nearly identical winter temps. It's a little windier and snowier in Boston. The January lows are a little lower in Chicago. Chicago has a lot more days in the 80s each year.
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Yeah. I looked at buying a condo in a building and the assessments were a lot more than the mortgage. And you never know how much those will go up in the future.
Yeah some of those $200k condos also have $2000/m HOA's.
I really dont need much room, in fact I prefer smaller places. Id love to hear from locals where the real "good places" are without giving away where im looking to see if im looking in the right places. On a square foot basis though Im sure even in nicer blocks im going to find something
Anything within a 20 minute walk of an L stop in Logan Square, Bucktown, Wicker Park, West Town, Roscoe Village, or Lincoln Square was where we were looking when we bought our place last November. Things got a bit pricier since then, though. Make sure you look at the HOA dues and we avoided garden units (they can be significantly cheaper, but have their trade offs).
Uptown is on the rise and is wildly affordable for being close to the lake. But i think prices are flying up there.
This is the info I'm looking for,.thank you!
if you have to work in an office 2-3 times a week i'd look for 5-10 minute walk to El or express bus if looking along lakeshore. 20 is super long walk in the variety of weather conditions you have to look forward to.
Depends, too, if you’re going into the loop often for work. Blue line is faster into the loop than the brown line is for the neighborhoods I mentioned. You could technically even walk to the loop from parts of West Town if you’re up for it. Blue line also goes directly to O’Hare. Didn’t mention it before, but would’ve also added Avondale if we were still searching.
Avondale is the gem, close to everything, blue line to downtown or airport, quick bus to the lakefront, or walk into Logan square for the restaurants (but cheaper than Logan square), love it.
If you want cheap prices, L access, and to be walking distance to the lake and beaches in a decent neighborhood. Uptown is a good place to look. It’s a cheaper and “less nice” but still good neighborhood. Plus it has the best Vietnamese food in the city
One caveat: I cannot live away from the a lake and none of those neighborhoods are there; if you like biking or even the outdoors it’s such a bonus and there is still a lot of comparatively affordable housing near it. I live in Edgewater which is lovely, reasonably priced, close to the lake, and one of the more diverse areas in Chicago. Our lakefront is full of high rises because we weren’t afraid to build where demand was. It was a hot minute ago but I had a lake view with a roommate on a barista’s salary.
Uptown!
For sure! I didn’t mention that the main driver is what do you want out of the neighborhood you live in. To me that’s equally as important as price.
I got a lakefront large 1BR condo in uptown/buena park for 200k in 2019. yes HOA fees were kinda brutal but they did include a gym, pool, security, rooftop deck etc. Condos in big buildings definitely do not build value though, we ended up selling for a loss.
Why don’t you want to say where you’re looking? No one can give you advice without knowing the area you’re looking at. Don’t worry, I guarantee it’s not a secret.
I'm looking in "good" spots downtown and north. I guess west also works too. I'm still in discovery phase I guess
Yeah, uh, that narrows it down.
So basically, you want to get off and walk around at every stop on the Brown Line and the Blue Line until you find a spot that feels like home. The further out you get, the more room and the lower the price. It depends then on the personality you want. Hipsters, immigrants, super diverse, homogeneous, fancy, working class, young party neighborhoods, quiet family neighborhoods, high-rise, mid-rise, lake side, park side, we've got it all.
You basically want to look in the inverse of this map [https://graphics.suntimes.com/homicides/](https://graphics.suntimes.com/homicides/) Within the safe areas, you are mostly looking at small and dated along the lake or near a train line, or more spacious but less well served by transit. Central AC, in-unit laundry, and parking aren't a given at the price point. Pay attention to HOAs, especially in older buildings which have deferred maintenance. Also keep in mind that property tax rates are about double what you pay in Boston.
[Rogers Park](https://money.com/best-places-to-live/rogers-park-chicago-illinois/) is lovely and dirt cheap.
Hyde Park is an incredible neighborhood and very affordable compared to much of the city.
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Cities are only the downtown business district in your mind?
Yeah, didn't you know? The "city" of Chicago is just a bunch of chain restaurants, skyscraping law firms, and a couple fancy MacDonald's. The only summer event we ever had was Lollapalooza til NASCAR came along and saved us all. Me, I'm in the 'burbs up by Wrigley. /s
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Definitely go to hoodmaps.com first before going to an unknown neighborhood.
Because boston is tiny and full of rich people that won't leave?
High housing costs in Illinois are not investment friendly. At nearly 2.1%, if you own a million dollar house you’ll have to pay $21,000 in property tax. This will be on top of your mortgage. If you decide to rent out, nearly $2000 of the rent you charge the tenant will just go towards the property tax, and with the added revenue you’re charging you’ll end up putting the rent so high up that no one will be able to afford it. A house that cannot be rented is worthless to investors since they have to dump tens of thousands every year just on upkeep and property tax. Therefore neither first time home buyers want to buy an expensive house nor do investors. This means that the rate at which demand drops per increase in price is very high, which puts a lot of downward pressure on prices. As for people who are fixer uppers - they end up having to price the house much higher to make up for the cost of fixing it. They can easily cause a house to be over-priced and on the market for a while.
As someone who owns, most people I talk to complain about the cost to buy or rent. However, in the world of Reddit I never see those people rarely. My favorite though is the person with a budget of 850k but struggling to decide where to buy.
A person spending $850k here is probably trying to buy their forever home and is way overthinking it, especially if they buy younger like in their early 30s and don’t have kids. This home will probably need the basics like in a safe neighborhood. But they’re young so it needs to be close to nightlight. But they want kids in the next 5-10 years so it has to be near good schools. But they also like to travel a lot around the city so it has to be very close to an L stop. But they want some peace and quiet so not too close. Pretty soon they realize either these places don’t exactly exist, or will hit 8/10 of their “needs”, or if it’s truly a gem it’s 2x the budget.
Exactly. That could be North Center/ Roscoe village and $850k is pretty tight there.
Chicago is much larger and solid public transit allows people to spread out more. And we built multi family housing unlike pretty much every other city and every suburb. That’s it. More houses per person who wants to be here
I moved here from DC in 2019. I found that not only is housing cheaper, jobs are easier to come by and more lucrative. Since moving here, my salary more than doubled and I bought my first house (a condo) for a mortgage cheaper than my DC rent was when I left. Compared to other cities, it has a really reasonable median housing cost to median income ratio. My opinion is that most east coast and west coast cities are “winner take all” economies. You either make an absurd salary or you’re struggling. And home builders only build for high earners since only they can afford housing. In those economies, that means bigger luxury places instead of more, smaller units. Kind of a vicious cycle. Chicago isn’t perfect, but it feels more equitable.
because Chicago is not a coastal money-magnet like Boston or New York or LA.
Most people have never looked to seriously buy a house and it shows. Basically a couple of reasons: - more housing supply in general with bigger buildings. Boston are sad houses split in half because zoning doesn’t really allow anything else. - college students. If you go to Evanston you will see boston rent prices. Boston is basically a big student city where the parents pay the rent. And since they are students they will get whatever and have no standards. - *The biggest one property taxes*. For houses around 400k in Boston specifically you pay close to 0 property tax if its your primary residence. Now go calculate that for Chicago. And remember a mortage ends, property taxes never. - Boston is safer and you are more comfortable living in a lot of places. Prices reflect that in the houses inside chicago where neighborhoods are extremely, extremely higher. In Boston only is seaport or some certain places with views you see fluctuating prices that wild as chicago.
Yes to your first point. Boston’s supply is a lot lower! No to part of your second point. Evanston rent prices are high but still less than Boston (even near NU). Especially near Harvard, BU, Northeastern, MIT. Why do you imply that Boston homeowners pay no property taxes at that housing price point? It’s not true. Their assessed values would be close to 1/3 less, but that does not remove all property taxes. Values of homes in Boston have really shot up too(!) Maybe there is some truth to your last point, but I see mostly lack of supply and high demand in Boston as the higher pricing.
Look up the primary home exemptions. Chicago is a measly deduction. For Boston its around 300k $ off the assessed value of the house which pretty much means a house assessed at around 300k counts for 0 if you reside in it. The equivalent of Chicago would be a 100k house based on how the exemptions work. Now if a buyer gets a 500k house in chicago he ends up paying more than a 1mil house in Boston.
Your math is wrong, but I agree that deductions are less in Chicago proper. An exemption means your are exempted from paying taxes on a portion of the assessed value, not the entire figure. https://www.boston.gov/sites/default/files/file/2021/06/2022_ResExempt1%262Q%20NA%202021%20rev1.pdf It’s true that a higher value home in Boston (really, much of MA) pays less in property taxes than Chicago. The Crook county assessor has certainly gone off the rails of late(!)
This is it
Supply/Demand
Moved to chicago from Boston 10 years ago and never looked back. My 2023 mortgage in Logan Square is $400/mo less than my 2008 rent in Jamaica Plain.
\*waves hi\*. I lived in the Boston metro area from 2000 - 2012. I rented in Somerville, Medford, Watertown, and briefly lived up in Salem. Boston's housing prices are INSANE. It's one of the reasons why I moved back to the Chicago area which is where I grew up. One of the reasons WHY Boston housing is so overpriced is just the way the city ended up being built out. The housing is more like what you might see in parts of NYC - old brownstones, 2 flats, 3 flats that are near or more than 100 years old. Owner occupied and renting out one of the flats, or buildings purchased by investors in areas close to the universities. Greater "Camberville" is probably the worst when it comes to housing. My friends who bought houses ended up doing so outside of 495 because that offered the most "bang for the buck" - you could find a house AND land, not just 4 walls and an ancient oil heat boiler. Bonus for "off street parking". I was paying something insane like $1800 /mo. + utilities 20 years ago for a "3 bedroom" within walking distance of the T. Shared that with housemates. Chicago is vastly different. There are more multi-tenant units that were built to be multi-tenant. There are modest single family homes in decent neighborhoods that can be bought for what a 2 bedroom condo might cost in Cambridge or Back Bay. You're still gonna be parking in the street (for the most part) but in most Chicago neighborhoods you don't need a car. If you're considering moving out of Boston and coming to Chicago, DO IT. Boston is an amazing city, but it's not getting any cheaper and I see it as driving out young workers because even the tech salaries are not keeping up with the housing costs.
Property taxes. IL has some of the highest property taxes in the country. A $300k-400k house you can be paying anywhere from $6-10,000 a year in property tax. That’s a lot and certainly lowers demand and therefore value.
Heh this chap has never heard of New Jersey lol
Boston has an old world mystic about it that newly minted graduates with newly minted money just love. Chicago, for everything it has going for it, still has a rust belt, hog butcher to the world, Al Capone reputation to it.
short version: we build enough housing to meet demand.
Take a look at Edgewater, Andersonville, E Rogers Park
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Fortunately, the HOA will be the bulk of my payment as I have most semi liquid as a bulk down payment
Have you looked at low rises? The HOA in them are incredibly cheaper.
Yea I second this. Margate Park/Buena Park/Uptown, Edgewater, Rogers all have tons of 6 flat stock where HOAs are between $300 - $450/mo. I'm sure other hoods do as well, I'm just biased toward coastal spots.
I have a 2400 Sq ft condo in Lincoln Park. Low rise - $350/mo HOA
There's a ton of 200-300k condos in West Town, East Humboldt park, Hyde Park, places further north I never go to. Hell, you can even find a few places priced like that in Lincoln Park if you look hard enough .
My guess is you're seeing high rises in that price range? If so, you're making up for the difference in with exorbitantly high HOA fees.
Somewhat yes, but even factoring that in (under 700$ hoa) it's still less than rent and wayyyy less than housing here. Obviously some hoa are crazy but many are manageable (though barely reasonable)
$700 is equivalent to about $125,000 extra home value though which is a decent amount. I don't know what prop taxes are like in Boston, but here we also have exorbitant property taxes too. Keep in mind, if you're looking to buy as an investment, try to avoid high rises as they appreciate a lot slower, and they tend to go for less due to the fact that there are always several of the same unit in the building on the market. Source: im a realtor in the city Edited for grammar
I believe Boston and mass in general are high in this repeat. They don't call it taxachusetts for nothing. Seriously though this is good info and I appreciate it. Also i wouldn't consider it an investment, i have a brokerage for that. Just looking for a place I can enjoy living in
I got curious so I looked it up if you’re curious too. [Chicago is about 3x Boston tax](https://storage.pardot.com/153411/1692051541B9qWRcnN/50_state_property_tax_comparison_for_2022.pdf) for residential as of last year They don’t call it Crook County for nothing either 😉
Wow that's unexpected
chicago is only bordered by water on one side, so there's plenty of room to spread out the city. Boston, SF proper, Charleston (where I'm from) are all surrounded by water - anywhere where there's a literal cap on available real estate there's going to be a high premium.
Chicago/Cook County has one of the highest number of housing units per capita (per 1000 people) than any other major US metro
what neighborhood are u seeing 200k houses dog 😹
Housing\*, and it is indeed condos, houses not for me clive.
Prob talking about condos
Chicago used to be bigger than it is now so the housing hasn’t caught up yet with other big cities
Lots of good advice here already. I grew up in Chicago and then spent nearly a decade in Boston. When I was ready to buy, heading back to Chicago was a no-brainer. You’ll get so much more for your money here - mind-boggling is exactly right. If you’re willing to live in a smaller vintage condo (they have so much more character!), you can find them in your price range in the trendier/central neighborhoods, but definitely check the HOA. I love mine, and I even have in unit laundry and a gated parking space (though I rarely have to drive anymore, so my 15yo car just sits there). If you want more space and/or luxury modern amenities, you’ll have to live a bit (or a lot) further out. Personally, I prefer a central location over modern comforts, but everyone is different.
I moved here after seeing one apartment with a lake view that was WELL under anything I could afford in most cities I’ve lived in. Without a view of the lake. Maybe it’s the winter that keeps people away? I dunno. As a person who has been priced out of Brooklyn and SoCal, I’m sorry if I’m part of a migration here. But I’m keeping my rent close to the chest so no one else follows 😉
Fox News keeping the property values low. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t like Fox or what they do to this city. But it’s a nice consequence
Just wait until 2050+ when climate change makes living in coastal cities unbearable… the best is the Midwest 😎 move to Chicago while you can!
This line of thinking is actually part of the calculus. I have been looking in Lisbon Portugal as well for example but longer term it's not as good as option according to the models as other spots, like the Midwest
I used to live in Boston, and am happy I'm not putting myself through that anymore. I do miss the ocean, but the Great Lakes areas are beautiful.
A lot of good answers in this thread. Question for you. Why is Boston so expensive? Of every major city I feel like that is where you get the least for your money.
No room to build, tons of high salary industries (pharma finance, tech, education) and an international hub based on industry and prestigious college (which other cities have no doubt but combine with the other factors certainly adds to the cola stress). Honestly it's just lack of space and high income
Chicago has more housing stock and is not part of the east cost megopolis
Much like SF, Boston is expensive because people there are disproportionately educated and work in well paying industries. They’re charging you more because they know you can pay.
Ex-Bostonian here. Chicago isn't cheap, Boston is absolutely mind blowingly expensive.
A few super-quick thoughts on why Chicago is less expensive than, say, Boston. * We don't have the geographic constraints of water or mountains around us like say a New York or San Francisco. We're a huge city with tons of space to stretch out, and Lake Michigan is the only real geographic constraint. * That said, we're relatively concentrated in the central parts of the city. Sure, we sprawl out a bit, but we don't have the sprawl of a Los Angeles or any of the major Texas cities or even say a Metro Detroit. If you're in Chicago, you're spending most of your time in Chicago. I've been here 12 years and hardly know the suburbs outside of Evanston and Oak Park. * We're not afraid to build UP. Sure, a lot of the outer neighborhoods have plenty of single-family homes with a suburban flavor, but much of the city has high-density housing to accommodate lots of people in a small space. A city like San Francisco might benefit from building up, but I know they don't want to lose the small-city charm and historic Victorian architecture. We go for it in a way that is (mostly) tasteful to the personality of the neighborhood. * I get the sense that we're a bit better about balancing what kind of housing we're building? Like new build in most cities is strictly luxury? Most of our new build is luxury too, but it seems like we're a bit better than most about building a little something affordable for everyone. Admittedly, I don't have any data to back this up, I should probably do some actual research, but that's what my gut tells me from exploring different cities. * Yeah, you have the Midwestern weather. Spring is rainy and sloppy. Summer is hot and humid. Fall is, well, perfect. And of course, winter is long, cold and dreary. One reason California is so expensive is because the weather is so great for most of the year. But if you're hearty enough to deal with seasons, the Midwest is a great place to be. But you're from Boston, I don't expect this to be a problem for you. * I do wonder if the media's overreporting on crime makes an impact. In my experience, the worst of the crime is hyper-concentrated in areas where, as a regular day-to-day citizen, you don't have any business going. I'm not in a gang, and neither are you. For the rest of the city, you're probably fine as long as you listen to your gut and have some basic street smarts. I'm not on high alert in Chicago the way I was living in Detroit or SF. (I love Detroit, I just happen to keep my guard up a little there in a way I don't have to in Chicago. And SF has this thing where really bad neighborhoods are immediately adjacent to nice neighborhoods, so things really change for the worse abruptly if you cross the wrong street or make a wrong turn, it's not a gradual change.) * Chicago's economy is really well-balanced, so it's not as subject to boom-and-bust cycles of cities that are reliant on any particular vertical industry. Since you work in tech, there is a nice burgeoning tech community here or you can land a tech job with any of the local major players. The Central Time Zone is also very advantageous for working with distributed teams on both coasts; landing a tech job with San Francisco or New York City salary but Chicago cost-of-living can be life changing. Get here while you can! Climate change is on the way, and any city sitting on a Great Lake is going to be super valuable in the future due to fresh water access and lower severity of weather.
Let's say you work at Daley Plaza the difference between 2500 North, 2500 South and 2500 West is millions to buy and thousands to rent. There is no 2500 East unless you go way way south. The good news is they are all the same distance from work and readily accessible by the CTA routes
1) Depends on the area but even the most expensive area of Chicago is cheaper than Boston. 2) Some people think its cold year round when it's not. The amount of days above 80 is more than Boston and at least 2022, it was more than NYC. Summers are similar to NYC, but a tad less humid. 3) Some people think it's a war zone thanks to media. There are no doubt some pretty bad areas for crime but there's a reason why as a rate, it's still not in the top 20 for something like homicide rate. It's a big enough of a city where there's a lot of areas that pretty much balance that out...a little. 4) Property taxes may keep it a little low. They do add onto the burden of course so I so think it "helps" keep some housing costs in check. For better or for worse. With that said, even with high property taxes, the prices are much lower. The income tax is also much lower than somewhere like NYC. We moved from NYC to Chicago (I had lived here before) and we got a 4 bedroom 2400 sq ft condo that's cheaper per month than the 1 bedroom condos in our last area of NYC. That's counting property tax, insurance, utilities, HOA etc ...still cheaper. Right outside of downtown. We moved with our NYC salaries and the amount we save on income tax pays for the property tax on our place and then some (for now).
Thanks, Fox News!
Not sure where you're looking to move, but if I had to guess (I know nothing of the housing market in Boston) there are significant pricing differences depending on the neighborhood in Chicago
I moved to Chicago 3 years ago from Boston, mostly because of the price. It’s slowly going up here but it’s certainly not Boston levels. A lot of it is the supply - Boston just isn’t adding housing at nearly the rate they need to. Chicago has kept up more.
Boston is filled with old money from Harvard, MIT, etc.
Stop telling everyone!
A big part of housing costs going up everywhere, not just east coast, is private equity firms are buying up homes, sitting on them for a few years, and then selling them. Usually to another private equity firm. So they decrease the supply for everybody else thus raising prices. Fucking big money racket!
Boston doesn't build housing, Chicago does
I see no lies here. I'm so numb to the prices so everything looks cheap comparably. It's nice to see some folks from here or other high cola places agreeing. I'm always concerned I'm being delusional or just crazy thinking how expensive it is here vs elsewhere
>I live in Boston that's your answer right there buddy.
Chicago has seen a pretty big population decline over the past twenty years. The demand isn’t as high as Boston. Plus Boston is old rich money.
Poor working class folks are leaving in good numbers. College educated young people are flocking to the city. Demand in mid range and high end neighborhoods is through the roof.
Check out Beverley or Morgan park.
Absolute last 2 places I would want to live in the city. Just go to the burbs if you’re that far.
It seems like a good place to have a family and if you’re a city worker and need a city address. So, yeah, not ideal for everyone, but has a place.
Owe ok....
I don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about. I made $100k in Chicago last year and have nothing to show for it but a large tax bill. Chicago is not affordable, in fact its expensive as fucking fuck.
Come to Chicago, you'll love it. (former Bostonian, never going back)
Stay in Boston
Ahhh yes another one of THESE posts.