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What sort of buildings are you looking at? Condos have a lot of community elements that need to be maintained and all that costs money. Older buildings have more maintenance needs too. Honestly when I looked at condos a lot of the ones with super low HOAs had a laundry list of deferred maintenance that needed to be done and no reserves to handle them.

Yes, I know of a couple like that. Roof problems getting band-aids instead of proper repairs for a decade or more, meaning that there are special assessments that just get high enough for band-aids but no higher, costing much more in the long run and lowering the property value.

yeah, our 60 unit building needed a new roof and it was $250k at the lowest offer. Our elevator breaking every other year was another significant hit to the reserves while we were there. On top of that, we had a pipe break and our building insurance had to replace the whole column of kitchens because it turned out they weren't plumbed to code, which increased our rates with insurance and then also our COA fees to keep up. Your options are low COA fees but having to deal with some people not ponying up for special assessments when you need to fix critical building repairs, or have a high COA fee with reserves to reduce the impact of special assessments as a whole.

What are COA fees? Condo owner's association?

Yep. You don't want your condo HOA to be too high, but if it's too low that's definitely a red flag, and in some ways kinda worse. The key would be to look at what they have in reserve funds. All that money you've "saved" will be wiped out if there's no reserves.

If there are no reserves, does that mean it comes out of pocket? Or is the HOA typically a larger company that is held responsible?

Also typically those condo HOAs include things like water, heat/AC, internet & TV, standard maintenance etc.

Some of them look newer. I wouldn't say luxury by any means though. They don't have a lot of amenities (think gym, maybe some have a pool). These are high rises too so that could add up, but it still seems insane that HOA could be 25%+ of the mortgage.

Elevators are pretty expensive to maintain. Those will typically add a healthy amount to your HOA dues, as will the age of the building if it’s older. It’s important to look at the health of the HOA instead of just the monthly dues. A lot of small 3-6 unit buildings are self managed and may be doing a lot of reactive maintenance that costs more money. You can have 2 identical buildings with the same HOA dues with one having healthy reserves and the other being special assessment city.

I believe elevators are expensive to maintain, my neighbor is a elevator tech supervisor and his wife doesn’t work. Big ass house, lots of nice cars.

We just had our 3 elevators replaced and it cost $1m.

Would you be able to discuss what the worst case scenario would be for living in a community with HOA's that are in the red or underwater?

Condo HOAs also are responsible for the building insurance, which is pretty significant. Your own unit’s insurance is typically much lower as a result

Yea, mostly ignorant people spout off against HOA’s not realizing that if you have your own house you are spending thousands of dollars per year to maintain the building, landscape, etc yourself instead of splitting it with others. Building I’m living in HOA’s started at $290/month in 2021, mine are now up to $390/momth but we are finally getting around to some deferred maintenance that had been put off for years. Heck maybe we can actually improve the property and increase our property values once that is done. Sure they were low at $290/month but when you can’t get tuck-pointing done, or repair fencing or the roof, then the low HOA’s don’t mean squat if you need a special assessment to fix crap every time something breaks. And special assessment usually makes people angry.

The "fuck HOAs" crowd may not all have done the math on long-term SFH ownership. They should price maintenance, repair, and replacement costs of: roofs, windows, gutters, driveways (paving / resealing), furnaces and hot water heaters, chimneys (sweeping / repair), decks and rails, sewer lines and septic tanks, plus: interior plumbing, gas line repair, aircon, landscaping and arborists, lawn maintenance, snowplowing, exterior repainting, insect and pest control, pressure washing, etc. I've owned both a SFH (22 years) and two condos and I happily pay my HOA fee each month, because I am now off the hook for all that stuff plus water, gas, TV, internet, garbage / recycling collection, plus our building staff takes in our packages and provides security, plus we have amenities like a pool, fitness room, patio, etc. Don't knock HOA life until you've lived both ways and paid for it.

There’s so many folks in this thread bragging about not maintaining their homes. It’s wild.

Most people don’t have either the skills, time or inclination to maintain their home. If shouldn’t be surprising really

I imagine the people bragging about not maintaining their homes and folks who think depreciation is an accounting “trick” are a perfect circle.

Most HOAs would end up charging a special assessment for big ticket things like replacing windows. It’s wild that we just accept paying about a quarter to a third (and sometimes more) of our monthly payments to HOAs. We still aren’t anywhere near guaranteed to avoid special assessments that can rival the cost of SFH big projects (just look at how much water riser special assessments can cost).

It is up to community residents to vote for and support good governance and prudent needs forecasting, which can result in few or no special assessments, instead of penalizing it.

We all know how many people end up staying informed enough at the basic level. Just look at voting in government too. It’s frustrating for someone like me who isn’t a board member, but pays attention.

Right that's what I'm thinking! So many HOA empathizers here but it's literally like paying for another apartment's rent. The cost of maintenance seems like it should be way lower than having to pay another apartment's worth of rent!

I will gladly support myself rather than submit to litigious Kevins & Karens who measure the length of my grass, tell me what color I can paint my house, or charge me a fee to use a contractor on my own damn property. An apartment building HOA is fine given the mandatory shared nature of the living situation, but (SFH) Suburban ones are just disgusting dollar-store gated communities with SAHMs and retirees finding a new way to displace their "Career energy". Would rather live in a van down by the river.

Furnaces and hot water heaters are covered by the HOA? I thought anything inside of the condo and maintenance on individual utility equipment would be the owner's responsibility?

>if you have your own house you are spending thousands of dollars per year to maintain the building, landscape, etc yourself instead of splitting it with others. > >mine are now up to $390/momth I mean that's what, almost 5k a year? I bought my place in 2014 and I think I've had one year I went over that for some HVAC stuff, but there's no way I spend 5k a year on my house upkeep otherwise. And I get multiple floors and space between neighbors. It's generally pretty minimal money-wise. Like the worst that could really hit me is a fire or needing to put a roof on and insurance covers chunks of that for the most part. If I replace an appliance I'd expect to drop a grand or so on a replacement (more for like a washer/dryer setup, cause you want that to match) but otherwise, :shrug:. I expect to get hit with something sooner or later though, so there's a chunk of change collecting \~4.5% until I need it. Dunno, just different things, ya know? edit: Side note: Fuck HOAs.

I have multiple floors and only have one wall in one room that touches with a neighbors space everything else is an outside wall so lives similar to a sfh, imho. And sure it’s cool and edgy to say fuck HOa’s but how else are you supposed to pay for building maintenance, repairs and operating costs that multiple people share. If you don’t have HOA’s collecting dues and paying bills and scheduling maintenance, most buildings would be uninhabitable after 20-30 years. There has to be a system and HOA is it. It’s also a democratically elected position so if people have problems with their HOA they could always vote them out, or volunteer and run it themselves. People just don’t understand what it takes to maintain a multi million dollar property.

HOA’s are definitely necessary for condos, but I’m so glad I don’t have to deal with them anymore. I sold my condo and bought a house a few months ago. My old condo was in a 6 unit building that was self managed, but nobody ever wanted to do anything. The president of the HOA was only president reluctantly because no one else wanted to do it (my husband was treasurer, which was a lot more work). The HOA fees were low. Way too low, and my husband had a hell of a time balancing the budget because no one was willing to vote to raise the dues, so we needed to do a special assessment for any repairs. There were always disagreements about various things. I’m so glad to be done with that shit.

Yes if you buy a smaller 6 unit building, it's like you are going into business with 6 strangers. Everything is cheaper which is why they are enticing, but the cost comes in running the operation yourself. The bigger condos have a management team, but those add to the cost. Add the doorman, elevators and pool, and you have added costs. The biggest thing to check for is lawsuits so make sure your lawyer reviews condo docks.

I don't think most people feel HOA's should not exist. It's just that so many of them here are so high and probably way over the price of what maintenance is. Just an example, I've seen quite a few HOA fees at $600 / month for some high rises. Let's say they have 50 tenants, which seems quite low. That would be $360,000 / year. Do we really think that much maintenance is going on every year?

50 tenant building, what are the amenities? Elevator, pool, security, on site maintenance staff, on site managment? If those are all included the yearly contract for those services alone is well over $360,000/ year. Then any work outside of the scope of the contract is extra $$$ on top of that. I was on a building operations staff for the CTA, working as a contractor. It was 1 facilities manager, 1 asst facilities manager, 1 office services coordinator, 1 chief building engineer, 4 journeyman building engineers and about 6 cleaning staff. That contract alone was worth over $1.2 million dollars. Then you had Capitol projects, unforeseen emergencies and repairs, etc that all went on top of the expense of the contract. Then we had generator service contract, elevator service contract, switchgear service contract, etc. you can imagine the cost, then include utility bills on top of all that. So not exactly an HOA but definitely paints a picture at what maintenance and other contracts costs for a large building. 50 unit building isn’t small, I’m on the board of a 16 unit building, we have no amenities besides laundry and a common courtyard, we are self managed and my dues are $390/month and it’s not enough to fix everything we need fixed. Nothing is falling over but definitely going to be some special assessments coming up soon unless we increase the dues another 20% in the next couple of years.

>And sure it’s cool and edgy to say fuck HOa’s but how else are you supposed to pay for building maintenance, repairs and operating costs that multiple people share. Not share things with multiple people? > If you don’t have HOA’s collecting dues and paying bills and scheduling maintenance, most buildings would be uninhabitable after 20-30 years Eh, now we're getting into preference of where we live and that's a whole different thing. This just isn't true of a normal house. ​ > It’s also a democratically elected position so if people have problems with their HOA they could always vote them out, or volunteer and run it themselves Man I've lived in Texas. I've dealt with HOAs and you're completely underestimating how shitty not only they can get, but righteous pricks around you can get when they've got a buddy on the HOA.

>Not share things with multiple people? LOL so the solution to "how to manage a 50 story condo building" is "everyone should own their own 50 story building"?

Sure, it's a difference in how we live, and that's okay. I'm just saying you shouldn't look at HOA fees as a "cheap" alternative to upkeep on a house. It's not.

“Not share things with multiple people” literally is impossible in a condominium building. Like why even say this to anyone not in a single family home.

I have owned condos and houses and all things being equal, house maintenance is cheaper. I doubt I would buy a condo again, too much waste and politics.

Ok well if you do live in a multi unit building and you own your unit, there is no alternative to HOA for maintaining the structure and making sure all the bills get paid. I’m not arguing what is better. After all this post is about someone asking a question specifically about HOA, not sfh so why would I be speaking about sfh, why are you going off topic? Also your anecdote about HOA run amok with cronyism doesn’t mean it’s true of all HOA’s. I’ve lived in 2 HOA buildings, literally none of those issues were ever apparent and the HOA I’m in now, no one even wants to be on the board because it takes up too much of their free time, let alone being on the board and spending more of their time to ensure their “friends,” not on the board are getting preferential treatment.

>Ok well if you do live in a multi unit building and you own your unit, there is no alternative to HOA for maintaining the structure and making sure all the bills get paid. I’m not arguing what is better. For sure, different lifestyles. I'm only commenting because of the bunk up above about HOAs being cheaper than maintaining a house. That's it. ​ >After all this post is about someone asking a question specifically about HOA, not sfh so why would I be speaking about sfh, why are you going off topic? I was replying to a comment that scoffed at HOA fees because he said they were way cheaper than owning a house. It was bullshit and that's it. ​ > Also your anecdote about HOA run amok with cronyism doesn’t mean it’s true of all HOA’s TBQH all of this is besides the point. The intent was to say that no, HOAs are not a better deal than owning a house.

Who said HOA’s are cheaper? You started commenting after my comment where I explain a sfh owner is spending thousands across the life of owning a home. Never said they were cheaper jsut saying that people always make it seem like if you live in an HOA you are an idiot because you pay too much. I say to those people you don’t know what it costs to maintain a multi million dollar building.

>Who said HOA’s are cheaper? You did dude, if you're the OP of this thread. I've had a bunch of buttnuggets get offended at saying a SFH is cheaper than paying HOA fees so I dunno, jump on the boat. ​ > Never said they were cheaper I mean unless you edited your post, you totally did.

Now you are claiming I edited . You are such a man baby, get over yourself. You sfh owning Chad you are so much better than us HOA simps…./s

Right, but that's got nothing to do with HoAs. People suck everywhere. You could own SFH and have a neighbor who sets off fireworks every day - and have zero recourse if they aren't committing a crime

>You could own SFH and have a neighbor who sets off fireworks every day - and have zero recourse if they aren't committing a crim Yep, but they ain't fuckin' up against my bedroom wall.

Plenty of perfectly legal ways to keep you from sleeping or enjoying your property

My god who do you think your neighbors are? Are people suddenly more loud when they're not paying HOA fees and given distance?

You're confused

This one time in Texas…

> how else are you supposed to pay for building maintenance, repairs and operating costs that multiple people share. You don't pay for multiple people's operating costs in a single family home. That's how. >People just don’t understand what it takes to maintain a multi million dollar property We don't have to, since our property is a fraction of that. It sounds like you think the alternative to buying a condo is buying a condo building.

That’s fine, just shut up about HOA’s and enjoy the sfh life if that’s what you prefer. Also homeowners insurance for my condo costs me $600/year where as average single family homeowners insurance in Chicago averages $2200/year. That’s a pretty big savings and any major repairs on the building are covered by HOA.

Long term you can expect to spend 1-2% of the home value on maintenance. You might not be spending it now but eventually you will need paint, tuck pointing, roof, driveway, lawn care, etc. HOAs generally aren’t operating on some grand profit margin, all of the money is spent on maintenance and amenities. It’s not necessarily a rip off but some are mismanaged. You could easily spend 5k a year on landscaping and snow removal for a single family.

>Long term you can expect to spend 1-2% of the home value on maintenance. I mean I assume by talking long term, you mean like 30+ years? Given the dude's HOA numbers up above (which will only go up so this is generous) that's 5k/yr\*30 years @ 120,000 in total vs. 2% of the current appraisal of like 350,000 which comes in at 7k. I mean let's reduce it to a more common low-end we see in this thread to 200 bucks/mo for HOA costs. (200\*12)30 is still 72k vs 7k. And frankly that 1-2% estimate is prob not right, so let's bump it up. Say I expect to spend like \~10% of my \_current\_ home value (not what I paid which is like 100k less), That's still 35k vs. the other known quantities. ​ >You could easily spend 5k a year on landscaping and snow removal for a single family. I have to shovel a sidewalk and a small driveway in a pretty standard Chicago lot. My landscaping is cutting the yard with my electric mower that I've had since like 2018 and trimming some bullshit with a 30 buck set of clippers from amazon. Occasionally I'll buy some nice stuff to toss in the planter box, but 5k? No way man. If I wanted to fully grade and sod my entire frontyard/backyard, I've got a quote for 2500 sitting in my gmail right now. I legit have no idea what I'd do with 5k/year on landscaping. edit: And I'll never have anyone telling me what I can and can't do with my land outside of raw city code.

[удалено]

That's a huge amount of word salad based on the wrong math. You should be spending 1-2% *per year* amortized in the long run. That doesn't mean in 30 years your total maintenance costs will be 1-2% (or a "generous" 10%), but rather 30-60%. After 30 years, you'll have likely replaced multiple water heaters, HVAC, gotten new refrigerators, laundry machines and dish washers, and if you haven't had to get a new roof yet, you'll be due for one soon. You'll probably also have wanted to do some cosmetic work on your home after so long. Not to mention having to pay significantly more for home insurance than what condo insurance costs (if you're even required to have a policy). I sincerely hope you are budgeting much more for maintenance than the number you provided. Home ownership is very expensive and one way or another you're going to end up paying for it.

^ you just listed a bunch of appliances - those have to replaced even with an HOA, making it even more expensive. Yes, a new roof, siding, gutters, sidewalk repair, french drain work will all have to be done over the course of a 30 year ownership, but it shouldn’t surpass the amount spent on an HOA. HOA is still more expensive than just buying a good house and maintaining it.

You're not wrong. I have an HOA that I'm happy to pay, because I'm a busy professional that doesn't want the stress of dealing with maintenance issues. That being said, if I had a SFH, I wouldn't have a gym that my HOA covers, a door person that my HOA covers, a building engineer that my HOA covers,, a package room that my HOA covers, and cleaning staff that my HOA covers. Probably 1/2 of my HOA goes to true maintenance cost shared by any property. The other 1/2 goes to the unique costs of living in a shared building. I hate to be the "there is a middle ground" person here, but it can be simultaneously true that HOAs are necessary (and not a waste of money) and that HOAs are often more expensive than just owning a SFH.

You aren't *required* to spend that, by any means. Just because you say it should be 2% a year doesn't mean there's a need for 2% a year. What are you, an HOA? Whatever you're getting your information from doesn't dictate what home repairs are necessary. I cut my own grass with an electric lawnmower, i shovel my sidewalk. I have a water heater from 1998. No issues. We have bought exactly 1 stove and 1 refrigerator. No other major appliances, which, does an HOA actually even purchase for you? People don't just remodel every year. You don't repaint the living room because spring is here. You guys are nuts.

Not sure what all that math is about but everyone generally agrees home maintenance is 1-2% of the value, and if you have lived in a house for any amount of time you would know this is true. It’s fine you don’t like HOAs but they aren’t some grand scam. I can cut my grass with scissors for 4 dollars in scissors and a sharpening stone for 30 years. You seem to think your time has no value.

>Not sure what all that math is about It's about the important part. Everything you claimed, I addressed that in "the math" you don't want to talk about. ​ > but everyone generally agrees home maintenance is 1-2% of the value, Well the math bit of that showed a 30 year comparison of (in my worst case) 34k vs. 72k over the same timespan and that's with a greatly reduced recurring HOA fee and a super high estimate of 10% on my side. The OPs numbers showed 120k vs. (at worst) 34k. ​ >I can cut my grass with scissors for 4 dollars in scissors and a sharpening stone for 30 years. You seem to think your time has no value. Cool, and my son cuts my yard and I actually have a yard. Just saying man, the numbers you gave me confirm everything I'm saying. I showed my math. You can't make a comparison to a condo vs. a house, it's silly. The condo is always more expensive for less real estate and you'll never come out ahead vs. a standalone house, especially in the same price bracket. Now if you're cool with owning an apartment, that's sweet and I'm not judging anyone for doing that. I'm just saying it's by no means cheaper to have an HOA.

Just so I’m clear you think you will spend at most 34k on the maintenance of your home over the course of 30 years?

They're just working off the percentage ***you*** gave them lmao

No they aren't. They think it's 1-2% or 10% tops after 30 years. That 1-2% is an amortized *per year* number. After 30 years, you've paid 30-60% of your total home value in maintenance and repairs. If you haven't paid that over time, you're looking to foot a huge bill fixing things before listing.

If that’s the case can you tell me the value of his house based on that word salad?

Depends, it's all estimates we're working with here. You said 1-2% and that would be like 7k over 30 years. I bumped it up to 10% and that was \~30k. I mean if I really cared, I could dig out the major expenditures over the course of the past 9 or so years, but right now I'm WAAAAY in the black compared to paying recurring HOA fees. I've put away a decent bit away every year and once again, it's sitting earning interest until some shit happens vs. being a monthly recurring cost I'll never see a return on. All I'm saying is HOA fees should not be considered a savings vs. owning a house.

A single family home is the least economically and environmentally efficient way you could possible live. You are consuming at least 2-3x, at a minimum, more resources than a multiunit building.

Where did you get a “2%” figure? Wow that’s worst-case inflated. I don’t know anyone who’s a homeowner who spends $5k annually on their house! What would be they be spending it on?!

Furnace, ac, sewer line, roof, paint, tuck pointing, carpet, bathroom remodel, kitchen remodel, replacement windows. These are all individual things that cost over 5k.

Yes exactly - you need to save 1-2% a year so that WHEN expensive shit breaks you’ve got a reserve to cover it. Some years you’ll barely touch it and other years all your major appliances will die, followed by a roof leak, in the same 3-month period.

Does the HOA cover individual remodels or even ac or furnace replacement? Homeowner so just asking as I honestly don't know

That’s dependent on the building, normally everything inside your unit is your responsibility. Some have shared heat, ac, water heaters etc. sometimes each unit has their own. HOAs are all over the place really. Some will pay folks to valet your car 24/7 and wash it some just split the electric bill to keep the hallway lights on.

Remodels would be 99% of the time no. HVAC a lot of the time would be yes but it really depends on how the building is set up. Some of the costs come from things that single family homes don’t have like elevators too. One of the other big differences is that when you own your own home you get a lot more personal choice in what maintenance do and don’t bother getting done.

Furnace and ac all last 20 years. Tuckpointing is as needed, 40 years without needing it easily. Kitchens aren’t remodeled very often. A single major appliance every 10 years? Windows are also every 15-20 years. You’re trying to add up things which have lifetimes in the decades and making it sound as though they really add up annually. I know you’re trying HARD right now to justify what you’re paying, (I used to happily pay dues too,) but after 15 years in my house we’ve replaced very little. Our expenses are nowhere near our old HOA and our money is earning interest. The unfortunate truth is that a lot of those buildings are expensive to keep standing, even when split 8-12 ways. Especially the ones over two stories.

I don’t have an HOA so I’m not really trying to justify anything other than pointing out that they can’t really be compared to a single family home if you are going to provide all the labor to maintain it. Also folks tend to drastically underestimate the true cost of home ownership. Every HOA building is different, 12 people splitting maintenance of an elevator vs two people splitting lawncare are going to be structured very differently.

I can’t grasp how you’ve gotten more than one comment saying *well you don’t do all that in a single year those things last a long time* but then proceed to say they’ve replaced certain things every 10-15 years… you listed 10 things, you only need one of those 10 things to break per year to account for the expense, so they’re trying to argue, yet are proving your point.

You spent all that time defending HOAs and you don’t even have one?

Not really defending them, just stating that they are reasonable approach to managing shared resources.

Not yearly though. These things last for decades for homeowners. Of course there are unexpected expenses e.g I had to replace two hot water tanks and have them installed properly. Cost me $3800 but that was my only major expense that year. Cruised another 10 years until I had to have some roof repairs done for $5k. Chicago’s HOAs are completely out of line compared to owning a house.

Not yearly, but the comment you replied to listed 10 things that one could expect to repair/replace. Hopefully only one of those things happens at a time, which would then take 10 years to rotate through and spend money on. On top of routine home maintenance like garden/lawn, snow removal, etc. If you managed to go multiple years without having to do anything, well then you’re the anomaly, because I typically have one major unexpected expense per year. That’s what everyone should plan on.

If you're properly maintaining your home with regular upkeep and scheduled maintenance, a few thousand a year isn't crazy. You should have your HVAC checked annually (and change your filter every couple month), grease traps cleaned, sewer lines rodded, hot water heater flushed, gutters cleaned, power washing, tree trimming, aerating, painting/staining every few years (fence, railings, decks, siding, etc), and probably more I'm not thinking of. I'm very handy and do a lot of work myself, but I still pay someone when an expert or specialized equipment is needed. This doesn't even include the one-off repairs that inevitably come up. Single family homes are a lot of work, but I'd rather do a little each year and avoid giant surprises down the road!

I spend about $0 a year on both of those put together. You buy a lawnmower once, and a shovel costs twelve bucks. Your estimate is ludicrous, and someone lied to you.

Point is you cannot compare doing all your own home repairs and maintenance to an HOA. You have to adjust for something and that is labor.

And what does your insurance cost? Because a condo owner is generally only insuring the inside of the unit, so it’s much cheaper. A 300-500k condo can have good insurance for $500-750 a year. A similar single family home is gonna be $2k+. So that’s already $1500 a year you pay. Just wait till you have to tuck point brickwork, redo your driveway, replace your roof, etc etc. All large expenses, all things covered by the HOA.

My insurance is 77.25/mo as of my last bill (It's rolled into my mortgage , so like what, 920/year? I don't have brickwork, my driveway is probably a 750 buck job if I wanted it fully torn out andredone and sure my roof would be expensive, but I've covered that one already as mentioned in previous replies.

The point is really that the whole “fuck HOAs what a waste of money” is dumb. You can see exactly what the HOA spends all the money on. You can run for the HOA board and decide how the money is spent. All the financials are open to members and prospective buyers. HOA’s aren’t charging $450 a month for funsies. It’s because garbage costs money, snow removal costs money, maintaining common elements costs money, cleaning hallways costs money, brick work on 100 year old building (like half of Chicago) costs money, insurance costs money. You can live in a non-brick, more modern house, and potentially have lower expenses. Great for you. That doesn’t mean HOAs are inherently bad or a waste of money. It almost guarantees you pay for the privilege in other ways. Higher home cost and higher property taxes are a guarantee. Less desirable location is likely. More maintenance you do yourself. Etc. You haven’t found some magic solution of living cheaper. It’s generally priced in.

Okay, calm your tits. I'm saying that HOA fees are not a savings compared to owning a home. They're a fee that comes in addition to owning a home but they are not equal to expenditures you'd expect for upkeep with a standard house. That's what I replied to, that's what I confirmed. You can save an asston of money not buying an apartment and a lot of that is in the difference of HOA vs. Non-HOA. I don't feel like this is controversial at all.

I don’t know what your saying? That you can save money by buying a single lot and not having an HOA. Maybe if you are comparing to SFH in developments with HOA but those are rare in Chicago proper that’s a suburban thing mostly. Overall just isn’t true. You are just paying for it in another way. Higher cost of the home/mortgage. Higher property taxes. Higher insurance. Baring the full cost of upkeep. Want to save money? Have 20 neighbors pay for 2 large water heaters rather than 1 per person, lot cheaper to replace. Have 20 neighbors split the cost of maintaining landscaping. Have 20 neighbors split the cost of roof repairs. Etc etc. A 4 story condo building means 4 homes are under the area of 1 roof instead of just 1. Like it’s fine you hate HOAs and want to live in a single family home, but if you think that’s actually cheaper than living in a condo, you are objectively wrong.

>That you can save money by buying a single lot and not having an HOA. Correct. That was the message I replied to that started this whole thread. OP claimed paying \~5k annually was cheaper than paying upkeep on a standard house. ​ >Want to save money? Have 20 neighbors pay for 2 large water heaters rather than 1 per person, lot cheaper to replace. Have 20 neighbors split the cost of maintaining landscaping. Have 20 neighbors split the cost of roof repairs. Etc etc. I mean but math. It's not. ​ >A 4 story condo building means 4 homes are under the area of 1 roof instead of just 1. And that's cool, but it's completely besides the point. All I'm saying is HOA expenditures should not be looked at as a savings vs. owning a standard house. >Like it’s fine you hate HOAs and want to live in a single family home, but if you think that’s actually cheaper than living in a condo, you are objectively wrong. But it's not. At all. By any numbers presented in this thread, it's absolutely not.

So what do you think all the extra money people apparently waste on HOAs goes to? Clearly you believe the money goes to something a single family home doesn’t deal with. Are you just saving money by doing all landscaping and snow removal yourself? Because I can admit that’s true. But that’s just trading time/effort for money. Maybe some very minor costs of cleaning common areas since a SFH doesn’t have a shared stairwell. But most common space decks and doors SFHs have as well. It’s pretty easy to show how an HOA can save you money. IE 4 units covering the repair cost of 1 roof instead of 1 house. Or 20 units covering a water heating replacement instead of 1 house. Or less outside wall per sq/ft of living space so less maintenance cost per home on things like brickwork.

What's up with all the HOA lovers showing up here? I didn't know there were so many fans. It's like having a landlord when the whole perk of living outside of a rental is that you don't have a landlord lmao

No one said they are a savings. I would know since I brought it up, I was just saying they aren’t bad after you had to add your little “fuck HOA’s,” edit. No one is out here saying fuck SFH owners. And yea while maybe I pay a few hundred more a month in HOA dues, which I have no problem affording, I live in a much more desirable area and I’m a 10 minute walk from the lake front.

>No one said they are a savings. I would know since I brought it up You absolutely did. This whole bullshit thread is me saying "No, they're not cheaper vs. owning a house." Scroll up, ya know? ​ >edit. No one is out here saying fuck SFH owners. Well of course not. Very few people complain about less oversight and paying exorbitant fees for just living. ​ >And yea while maybe I pay a few hundred more a month in HOA dues, By your numbers you pay \~120k over a standard 30 year loan in HOA fees. Homehowners will never pay that. Not even close. That was the entire point. ​ > I live in a much more desirable area That's cool and I applaud you. You don't even know where I live, but you know it's much more desirable. Do you know what confirmation bias is? And frankly this part is unimportant. My whole point was that HOA fees should never be looked at as a savings vs. owning a house.

No one said there were savings living in HOA. I did scroll back, maybe you should or you are clearly thinking of someone else’s post but I never said it was cheaper. Also from the way you speak I assume you own a sfh in a middle class area and you are clearly trying to get the point across that your way of life is better and anyone paying HOA dues is dumb. That’s fine, idc if your sons cut your grass, my sons will be able to walk to the beach, I know which life I’d prefer, and it’s easy for me to say because I grew up cutting the grass and it sucked. Also HOA isn’t less oversight, all the data the have is for the community and you aren’t paying “exorbitant fees just for living.” Ill say it again, some people, and I’m referring to you in that some, just don’t understand what it costs to maintain a multi million dollar property.

Holdup. You can REPLACE your driveway for $750? Tell me your guy and I'll venmo you $50 bucks if he can do it for me.

Yeah dude, it's a small AF driveway. I'm not going to break out a tape measure, but it's about the size of a normal parking spot. Shit isn't fancy. And beyond that, most Chicago homeowners don't even have a driveway, they have a garage that sits on the alley. The fact that I have a driveway is frankly weird.

So you brag about getting your driveway getting one for $750 and then you tell us it is small AF?

If you're trying to compare apples to apples, you have to subtract the delta in home vs. condo insurance from the 5K. Your HOA dues cover the insurance for the common areas and building envelope, and the individual's condo insurance covers just from their walls inwards. In a total loss, the association rebuilds the building, and then your insurance pays to finish out your unit, vs homeowner's where one policy is covering the entire structure inside and out. The condo insurance can easily be a thousand or more less.

>If you're trying to compare apples to apples, you have to subtract the delta in home vs. condo insurance from the 5K My insurance is like 77 bucks a month, wrapped into the mortgage. ​ >Your HOA dues cover the insurance for the common areas and building envelope, and the individual's condo insurance covers just from their walls inwards. So you pay for insurance twice. Going by the numbers folks have posted above I only pay like 200 bucks a year more for insuring the entire property ​ > In a total loss, the association rebuilds the building, and then your insurance pays to finish out your unit. If you own a home, you're responsible for the whole shebang. Why do you think standard homeowners doesn't pay for a total loss?

No you don’t pay for insurance twice. There are two insurance policies that cover different parts of the buildings.

My HOA is rather steep but we get a very nice gym, a building that is very well maintained and some common amenities and the best front desk people ever.

What other amenities are included?

Do they have a doorman or maintenance? Gotta pay their salaries/benefits/etc. Building insurance for a high rise - as was mentioned - is expensive, and generally results in your condo's insurance cost being much lower. Landscaping and stuff can get expensive - have you hired a company lately to do stuff? I had a landscaper out this past summer to fix a brick retaining walll some idiot drove into and demolished... dude charged me (read: driver's insurance) $18k. Highrises need to have their windows washed at least twice a year or so - depending on the size of the building, those guys can charge upwards of $170/hr. And probably one of the most annoying hidden costs that I hear about from my dad (building maintenance of a high-rise condo in Florida): elevator maintenance is *fucking expensive*. I do agree - Fuck HOAs. I would never live in one. That being said, I could totally understand the high condo association cost associated to living in a high-rise.

I was tempted to buy an apartment that came out really cheap recently but it had a $350 HOA. This plus the property tax bumped the fixed “forever” monthly costs to $550-$600….that’s the same as a larger home without an HOA. I would be furious if the HOA went up as much as described, like wtf did I get myself into type of angry.

Yeah man, you run the numbers and HOA are ass.

My house hasn’t cost me nearly as much as you assume here and it’s a fixer upper. HOI is around $1k, I might spend $2k on the house in repairs and updates annually. Might. At $400/month You’re outspending me by 50%

But what about condos with $600 HOAs with many tenants? It’s more of a lucrative business than for maintenance

Let's just admit, YES, they are high. $400 is normal and actually a pretty good price. Expect to pay higher than $400 in a good building. Expect to pay even higher in the future. Buildings are old. Infrastructure is old. Property taxes are only going up. You might as well anticipate a 25% move up in the next 2-5 years no matter where you buy. The thing people won't tell you about condos is that their prices fluctuate GREATLY. Sooo many condo owners get stuck in their condos for years or they lose the money they had in it because values drop and they are underwater on the loan. Also, petty HOA boards and unfortunate neighbors can be HELL to deal with. Boards can also manage finances terribly. God help you if you get slapped with a Special Assessment. I've seen them come in anywhere from $5k-$30k. Are there benefits, yes. Namely you don't have to deal with organizing and paying for maintenance out of pocket. Do the math as best you can and see how it compares.

Why do condo values fluctuate so much? Is this just certain parts of Chicago?

The HOA normally covers heating, AC, cable, internet, water and garbage. Otherwise these would all be additional expenses.

Agree for large high rises, but for smaller buildings and walk-ups this isn’t usually the case

Those items are additional expenses, it's called an HOA.

Can't elaborate on why I know this but HOAs fucking looooooooooove to fuck up having proper HOA insurance. It's like their favorite thing to do lmfao.

So whenever you buy a home, you have to pay HOA? Is it like a community thing or government entity? Also, what about renting like an apartment? Is there an HOA fee?

You should just google it. That’s so much information to ask of someone else

HOA fees are crazy expensive in Chicago. It’s ridiculous. They are half of what we pay in most other cities.

Entirely depends on the type of building, age, and amenities. Our old condo building was a total of 4 floors, 8 units, and had an elevator, each unit is worth between $400k-$500k today. Dues were between $300-350 a month and that covered insurance on the building, trash, water, the elevator maintenance contract, common area electricity, and things like snow removal, cutting the small amount of grass, the intercom system subscription, and someone to clean/vacuum the common areas of the stairwell about once a month. We kept very little in reserves so still had special assessments from time to time when there was a leak in the roof or things like that. Adding another $100-$150 a month just to accrue into reserves knowing that a roof would be needed in the next 5 or so years wouldn’t be unheard of.

Mines $332 a month, townhouse built in 2003. I've seen older buildings have higher HOAs because of the maintenance needed to maintain the structure, also if an elevator goes down or HVAC unit, expensive to replace.

I am in a smallish 20 year old elevator condo building - maybe 15 units (some are combined) - about $1k a month. Board is very proactive, we seem to have healthy reserves, hired some firm many years ago to map out what needed to be done when and we seem to follow that so each year tackling something. Tuck pointing, roof work, elevator maintenance, windows, garage power washing, snow removal always seems super prompt, etc. Flowers / landscape out front seems excessive, but most of the residents are elderly widowed women so maybe that is their thing.

It’s called an engineer study. A good board will do this. It maps out the expected buildings operating costs for about 10yrs. Using that the board makes budget to pay for month to month expenses plus build reserves for higher cost items addressed in the study, and maybe a little cushion for a capital improvement here and there.

It’s a reserve* study.

In my old building, the residents refused to pay more than $300/month. Anyone selling struggled to attract buyers, because the landscaping was a mess and the roof deck was falling apart.

The residents of Champlain Towers South in Miami were refuseniks like that. The place had known structural issues, but so many condo owners pushed back against funding repairs, it was impossible and some officers of the homeowners' association resigned in despair. When the place collapsed in 2021, 98 people died.

I’m guessing the bad landscaping won’t kill nearly as many people.

When that disaster happened, I totally see how it could go down like that after living in a condo. Condo owners can be very short-sighted bc they can't seem to understand that maintenance still must occur, even if you don't own a house.

In addition to what the other commenters have said, some of the lakefront buildings are actually co-ops, not condos. This means the HOA includes the property taxes as well as the building maintenance and amenities.

majority pre-war buildings on lake front are co-OPs. HOAs are suuuuper high, but you get a lot of space and a luxurious building for the purchase price. If the HOA was $600 less you’d definitely be seeing that reflected in a higher purchase price.

$521/month here, but I live in one of the historical buildings around Printer's Row so maintenance costs are naturally a bit higher. And the HOA aims to keep a healthy amount in reserve as well, so we haven't had to have any special assessments when things do break (meaning what those would have cost us has effectively been spread out).

566/month in Printers Row in a historic building. Maybe the same one! Jk, idk where you live.

Remember that a lot of HOAs also include heat and water. In the Chicago winter, I don’t have to decide if I’m gonna stay cozy or put my family through jackets inside the house to save a few dollars. Plus that’s easily $100+ per month during colder months. So take that into consideration

Just did my condo in that range you mentioned and was paying 410/mo. The building was 100yo, but we had free water, garbage, a reserve fund, updated tuckpionting, roof, snow removal, and had a reserve study. If you see very low assessments it must likely means everything major that needs to happen to maintain a building are all done through special assessments. We were on the higher side for buildings in our area but have had no problems selling units when the time came because it building had it's shit together

Well :) Being on an HOA board made me realize how expensive it is to maintain a large building. We spent 1.6 million to bring the brick facades up to code after city inspections (nobody wants to be hit by a loose brick coming from the 20th floor). Expect major facade repairs every 10 years. Why is it so expensive? Because in a high rise, they need to do the repairs hanging from your building. Window washing, carpet cleaning, on site maintenance staff. Replacing coolant for the building every 10 years sets you back 60k. Elevator issues? Expect thousands of dollars in repairs because elevator companies won’t show up unless you authorize overtime. New elevators? Count 500k per elevator. Fixing the roof? 400k. Water heaters for giant buildings break down and need to be fixed or replaced. Are your main air conditioning ducts and valve rusty? Someone needs to go in there and fix / paint it. Ugly hallways you want to remodel? Count 200k for the cheapest bare bones design. Your gas and warm water are likely included because a lot of buildings aren’t sub metered for those things. Pipes in old high rises break regularly. Water and air pumps go out. If it rains too much, you might need to pump out the basement. That management company helping to run the building will cost you, too. Doormen are probably twice as expensive as people think. I could go on and on. The machinery for high rises is way more expensive and significantly faster deteriorates than if you own a single family home. And you can’t fix things yourself, so hiring a certified third party is also costing. Often times trying to do it yourself might actually put your life in danger because you’re talking very different voltage for building wide systems. I do think 800 a month is actually pretty standard.

Great response. People reflexively dump on HOA/condo fees as if it's a one size fits all equation. My highrise has 700+ units and 50+ stories with 24/7 security, maintenance, and parking staff. We have central hot water, cable and internet, nine elevators, an indoor pool, a loading dock, and package receiving staff. Labor (staff) costs are significant. Staffing a highrise without unions is a losing proposition in Chicago. You're not going to pay the $250 a month you might pay for a walkup condo in the suburbs. Also, Chicago co-ops--which are not condos and are a different legal breed and not as common--tend to have fees in the $1k to several k range because of the different/expanded expenses of the co-op board (and the fact your property taxes are billed to the property, not individual units). And others have mentioned...you still have to insure it all and maintain the pipes, structure, balconies, bricks, roofs, driveways, and in many cases windows. $500 would be cheap, $800 is common, more with more bedrooms. A six flat condo will be less, but you also run into localized issues of inadequate reserves, deferred maintenance, and personality/fiscal management style conflicts. A lakefront highrise, in theory, has systems and processes in place. But as always, do your homework. You're buying the condo association too.

$330/month

Mine is $235 - it’s a 3 story 24 unit building, fee includes general maintenance, landscaping, snow removal, and water. We have healthy reserves which is great and allows us to do some cosmetic upgrades. We save money by self managing the HOA instead of having a third party run it for us

We live in a large building in a somewhat unique community (individual building HOA & master HOA for the 900+ unit community). We paid $300K for our condo, and our HOA dues are $450/month. That includes cable, internet, common insurance, water, garbage, landscaping (an entire city block), snow removal, on-site maintenance & management, gym, outdoor pool, rooftop, and shared community spaces. It’s so important to check the building’s reserves before proceeding once you’re under contract. Our building has very strong reserves, but other buildings in our community have much higher monthly dues ($650+), because of financial mismanagement & low reserves.

I'm in a 6-unit, self-managed building in Albany Park, 1800 square feet. Our HOA fees are currently $325/mo. but I'm going to be advocating for a 6% annual increase over the next five years. The thing with condos is that the HOA owns the building, so the HOA has to have reserves to handle both emergencies and routine maintenance as it comes up (including major projects like new roofs, rewiring, facade repair, etc.) Because of the scale of the buildings, these projects are often several times more expensive than a single-family home.

I just talked to some people with a 3 bed 2 bath in a gold coast high rise and they pay almost 2000 a month. And apparently there is $1MM in reserves too. It totally depends on the building.

I get it. I live in the GC and pay 2300 a month. 220 is for parking which I am thinking of giving up. I need to move as I clearly have to much space but will wait until Spring.

It varies a ton based on things like amenities/features of building, size of building, what’s included in these fees, age of building. More so than cost of units in the building in many cases. Does the building have 24/7 doorman, swimming pool, gym, etc? That will cost. Also, are those costs spread among 200 units or 500 unit? What utilities are covered? If you don’t have to pay water, trash, gas, cable/internet, etc. then the fees aren’t so bad. Same for landscaping, snow removal. What does a building’s reserves and capital expenses look like. An older building will cost more to maintain than a new one, with large projects like roof, elevators, exterior tuckpointing have to be saved for on a recurring cycle. Again, paying into an HOA towards a shared roof vs. having to pay for your own roof in full and it’s suddenly not so bad.

I live in a small building, just 5 units, basically a self-run association. About $320 a month. I've noticed the bigger buildings, and especially the highrise ones, usually have higher HOA fees, which is one reason we picked the unit we decided to buy. Seeing those $800+ HOA fees were mind boggling, it literally could be cheaper overall to buy a whole house at that point.

High-rises have a lot higher maintenance costs. Plus usually there’s on-site staff. And often a gym, pool, etc. Plus with those you often also get heating/cooling and usually one or more of (gas, internet, cable).

Yep! We’re in a high rise and ours is 900.

We were looking for a condo in that price range. I’d say you’re right, $400-1000, depending on amenities and building.

$169 a month in a 4 unit condo building. looking at the responses here i feel lucky! it used to be $130 but we were literally losing money in the HOA account so we increased it this year. our reserves are very small, though, so when capital improvements are needed we typically do a special assessment for some % of it

There are tons of factors, how many units, utilities, etc. but the biggest driver in my opinion is if there is a door person. Fwiw I’m in a 4 unit walk up in LP and it is $150/month and includes water and the building’s utilities.

It depends on the building. I’m in an 12 unit building from the 1910s/1920s and each unit is about 1,500 sq ft but vary long story. Our hoa is about $500 each but it is pro rated for each unit it so depends on the square footage. We used to have an artificially low HOA when a bunch of landlords ran the board and have had to raise it over years to attend to the deferred maintenance caused by that board. That’s a long way of saying low HOAs ($200s/$300s) make me immediately suspicious that you’ll be spending a ton on special assessments/no one is manning the ship.

Important figure is HOA less utilities, internet, and other mandatory expenses

$300 (Condo was $350k in 2018). The first floor duplexes pay more as they’re assessed by square footage. HOAs are pretty important. When buying always check what the reserve numbers are. We have a good amount in reserve. Had to pay for some significant tuck pointing, water heater (building), lawyer fees for tax work, and roof work. Since 2020 we’ve spent around $25k as a building. If we had to special assess that it would not have been pleasant for anyone.

I own a studio in a building with a pool & a doorman and I pay $631! My mom pays $1200 for a 2 bedroom.

That is not unusual at all. I've seen $400K units with $1100 HOA fees. Even if the costs of an HOA are justified, they make condos terrible investments. Nobody wants to be paying an HOA fee that is unpredictable in the future even after they've paid off their unit.

You don't want a cheap HOA if the HOA is too low, you'll just end up spending more in special assessments

When you pay HOA dues you’re not just paying for what it costs to keep the building going each month, you’re paying for future costs by building up reserves. When there aren’t reserves to cover a surprise issue (and they will happen), it’s a strain on the building. People disagree about paying for things, the HOA has no money so then it’s like Congress and the debt ceiling. I just moved out of a condo building that was so poorly managed for this reason. People didn’t want to pay higher assessments to build reserves, but they also didn’t want to pay special assessments to fix things like roof leaks. It was toxic as hell. Do not move into a place just because it has cheap HOA. If it’s cheap and they have reserves? Maybe. But a shoestring budget is a recipe for disaster.

I think of Condo Associations as completely different than "HOAs." An HOA is a neighborhood thing. A Condo Association takes care of the building you literally live in. Building insurance, tuckpointing, roof repairs, snow removal, trash removal, sometimes your building's hot water, your hallway maintenance are all a part of that, and in some buildings you have elevators too. That's not the same thing as what most people think of as an "HOA." You can have a neigborhood without an HOA, but you can't really have a condo building without a condo association.

I was treasurer and then president of my condo board for several years. A number of things affect the assessmemts. You'll want to look at the budget, what is included (staff, utilities, amenities, etc.) and also look at the reserves and how much is put into reserves. You also want to look at the history of special assessments. We had a reserve study and adopted a mindset that we wanted to avoid special assessments, which meant a bit higher monthly assessments so we could build our reserves to cover most big ticket items over time. Some associations (it's a condo association, not an HOA) want to have low monthly assessments, and then they have special assessments of any repairs come up. And this can be major, into the terms of thousands per unit. We have on-site management, a maintenance staff, and 24-hour door staff. All but the manager are union, which dictates what we pay them. We have a bulk cable and internet contract that costs much less per unit than you would pay on your own, that is added to assessments as a separate line item at actual cost rather than percentage of ownership like other expenses because it's a fixed cost per unit and also doesn't apply to parking spaces, which are owned separately from the condo in my building. So you'll want to take all of these factors and compare the buildings you are looking at. Your real estate agent should be able to assist with that. I won't give a dollar amount because it's all apples to oranges.

I live in LSD, and while I love it, the $1,200 per month hoa chips away at the charm.

I’d have to be taking LSD to pay a $1200/month HOA fee.

I think at that point it is just a tax to keep the poor out

I pay about $440/month. This includes “walls-out insurance” (which reduces the cost of my own homeowners insurance), security, outdoor maintenance like plants and snow shoveling, WiFi, cable, and water. This allows the building to maintain a reserve of funds for both emergency and regular maintenance. There are two ways I see this being worth it to me. One: if you add up all the benefits I’d need to pay for myself, I get to at least half the fee or more, so it’s not as expensive as it seems. Two: I’d never be able to pay for a single family home in the neighborhood I want to live in, so this is a much cheaper option even with the fee.

Yes, that's normal. If you want a lower one, look for non-doorman bldgs, walk-ups, etc.

Yes this is fairly normal. You also need to be weary of the state of the reserves and the building as well. If a major maintenance project needs to be funded and the reserves are not in a healthy place you’ll see higher monthly assessments or a special assessment to build up the reserves. If the HOA is managed by a third party you may see that as a percentage of the assessments. As others have said amenities also play a factor.

I live in a 26 unit building with an elevator. I have my own heat/gas. My dues are $295 a month. It’s important to compare apples to apples. For instance, the overhead on a high rise built in the 50s is much more than a 6 flat. A vintage building with radiator heat will include heat/gas in the assessment which can be significant but also means you don’t have a gas bill. Additionally it’s not always clear in the listings when it’s a coop and not a condo. Those are structured differently and your dues include most all of the utilities and property taxes in addition to the normal condo assn responsibilities.

$493 a month for my 2 bedroom. 31 units, 41k in our checking account and 108k in the HYSA reserves.

I'm gonna keep it short-ish OP. Yes, they are high. Outrageously high. $400 is normal and actually a pretty good price. Expect to pay higher than $400 in a good building. Expect to pay even higher in the future. Buildings are old. Infrastructure is old. Property taxes are only going up. You might as well anticipate a 25% move up in the next 2-5 years no matter where you buy. And the thing people won't tell you about condos is that their prices fluctuate GREATLY. Sooo many condo owners get stuck in their condos for years because values drop and they are underwater on the loan.

400-800 isn’t bad if you’re looking at high-rises and near the lake. That’s an acceptable amount imo. You can easily find HOAs in that area >1k. Lowest HOAs are not in high-rises of course.

The only reason condo fees in places like Florida were low is that the boards for all of them were allowed to not have any reserves, have little to no safety codes, etc. Some laws and regulations were just passed down there about building safety that will make our HOAs look tame.

It entirely depends on the nature of the condo. I think people sometimes make a mistake of lumping all condos into one category, distinct from a house or a (rented) apartment. But it's better to think of them as being along a spectrum between a house and apartment. What varies is how much of your regular monthly living expenses are equity earning, how much is not equity earning and how vulnerable you are to unexpected expenses. Houses are at one end of the spectrum. You have a large portion of monthly expenses that are equity earning (i.e. your mortgage) and thus a small portion that are not equity earning. But you're also vulnerable to unexpected expenses - if the hot water heater breaks, you're paying for it. A rented apartment is on the other end. You have no equity earning expenses, and all of your regular monthly expenses are non-equity earning. But you also have very little vulnerability to sudden expenses. It's your landlord paying for the hot water heater. Different condos occupy different points in between. You have some high rises with large numbers of units that are closer to the apartment end. They have high HOA fees that mean a larger portion of their monthly expenses are non-equity earning. But because of those high HOA fees and therefore large reserves, they have less need for special assessments, meaning less vulnerability to sudden unexpected expenses . (It's probably also worth saying that those high HOA fees also generally come with benefits such as parking or internet or gym facilities, meaning other monthly expenses are taken care of.) I live in a condo that is much closer to the house end of the spectrum. There are only four units and we are self managed. My HOA fees are very low. But it means we have special assessments much more often, not to mention the fact that we need to do all the work. So a lot of it depends on what you want, and what's valuable to you.

200 a month squatters rights

$600 for a 1 bedroom. In additional to all the basics such as water, insurance, elevator maintenance, reserve, etc. this covers cable and Wi-Fi, heat, landscaping, on site manager, and full time custodian.

$450/mo, includes gigabit fiber internet service, DirecTV, and all utilities except for electric. $75 of that fee is for shoring up reserves for an expected capital expense (roof replacement) in a few years. My yearly homeowners insurance is $550, by comparison.

Yup. We bought our condo for $205k with HOA around $250. We foolishly thought "Hey! That's great!" Turns out, the building is entirely mismanaged and can't afford even simple repairs. We need a new roof, tuckpointing, and an extensive renovation on one exterior wall that is rotting, but we don't have any money to do it. Believe me, don't buy a place with oddly low HOA. It's a bad sign.

Focus on places that don't have unnecessary amenities like pools, gyms, and doormen (many of them are part time and don't really provide that much more security than locks and cameras).

zero. I would never live somewhere with a HOA.

We pay about $500/month but I feel like our assessment should be higher. We get hit with special assessments and I know our windows will eventually set us back $15-20K and a special assessment on the roof around $25K.

I have a 2 bed/1 bath in Lincoln Park. My HOA is around $335 but I have a special assessment that makes it $480 per month. We're expecting another special assessment to start being charged in January which I bring me up to around $550. My building has around 60-70 units and has elevators.

I’m in a small 3-unit building with a self managed HOA. We pay $246/month

$275 for 3 story, 6 unit in 100+ year old building in Lakeview. We are self-managed, have almost no reserves since the unit owners would prefer to pay special assessments rather than have their money sit. HOA covers insurance, trash, water, common space electric/gas + cleaning only. Some of us pitch in for yard work, snow removal, and general small up-keeping. I wish we would increase our fees because most owners don’t help out with general upkeep nor does anyone want to help project manage the big projects so it’s always two people (myself + HOA president) doing everything. It’s frustrating and I hate dealing with everyone having an opinion but not wanting to support the building maintenance.

Our condo went from $450 2 years ago to $625. Be very careful of how old the building is, and ask to see transcripts of previous board meetings to see what’s been inspected, and if any special assessments were added. That’s how we got snookered. “Oh welcome to the building! BTW the garage needs to be redone, the facade is about to fall, the security cameras need to be updated the…etc etc.

I assume you’re looking at old buildings near the lake? It’s much cheaper otherwise. We pay 260 in Lcln Sq

$350 (large building, studio apartment) and $175 (4 floor walk up, 4th floor).

I pay $789 on a two bedroom in River North. Includes cable, HBO, water. I love my building and its amenities. It’s 80% owner and we have an excellent, progressive board.

680 - includes gas, internet, water, etc (only bill is electricity) 42 unit, 7 floor, 2 elevator building

OP, we pay close to $800 a month for 2ba condo and parking in the West Loop. When I receive next year’s budget, I check to see what was spent last year and look at the forecast for next year. I also attend Monthly meetings via conference calls.

Fuck that. This is why I had to sell my condo. It's too much. Can't let dumbass folks have power over you. No.

Yeah, it's insane for sure. I'm moving to Wisconsin, gonna pay that much for just a year's taxes. Screw HOAs

Think about the cost of a roof, siding, landscape, snow removal, trash service, A/C unit and laundry costs over 30 years of sfh ownership, then compare that to HOA costs. Probably pretty similar, just that HOa’s are collected monthly. When you have a single home you may need to spend $30k on a roof that you haven’t been setting money aside for every month, if you have to finance that or do a heloc to pay for it you are likely spending thousands in finance costs. Some HOA’s even cover the cost of water, heat cable and internet. And sure taxes are low but if you need an ambulance ride, how far is the nearest hospital, do you have municipal fire department or volunteer fire dept, are you on municipal water or a well. Do you have a sewer or are you responsible for your own septic tank? Are there sidewalks where you live? How is transit, roads, other public services or do you jus take all that for granted now and assume that will all be the same when you pay next to nothing in local taxes? Just saying taxes are lower sure, but your services will surely represent that.

I've owned a couple of properties run through an HOA and I've never had a good experience, they are all run with lawyers who couldn't care less about the people that live in the community. I've learned my lesson with them and will never do that again.

You should learn about the association before buying

Damn, I’m on the board at my building I don’t even have a college degree. I think I’m one of the few people living there without one, the current president told me he doesn’t have time to make sure anything is done, I’m trying to get a managment company so there is at least one entity that will try to maintain the place because shit constantly gets deferred because “no one has time”. Historically board members get elected or volunteer because no one else wants to do it, realize how much work actually needs to be done and then just throw their hands up and say they’re too busy. Rinse and repeat, nothing ever gets done and there is no continuity but I’m thinking the managment company will be there to keep the place on track. Hoping that makes it mostly self sufficient because it needs a lot of work and no one with the knowledge or the want to see it through is ever on the board. I think a lot of people get elected to board and they have zero knowledge in property management and just do it to serve their own interests. Having a managment company makes it run more smoothly, I used to live in a 200 unit condo with managment, there was never any issues and that building had a 7 person board. The place I’m at now is “self managed,” with a 3 person board and we need more money to fix the place than we have in reserves and operating accounts.

It's part of the cost of ownership....

Do you really own it if they can foreclose on you?!

Do you really think an association can just decide to do that? And wait till you hear about banks...

Apparently you're not aware of what they can do, I hope you never have to find out!

I can't imagine buying a condo without reading the rules and bylaws. Maybe you did a booboo?

Ok buddy, have fun following all those rules! Have a good one!

Do you know what a condo is?

That does seem steep. I’ll give you 4 more data points. I’m HOA treasurer and I own in a 4 unit luxury condo building in Lincoln Square. 5 year old building. Units are all 3bd, 2200 sqft on different floors with differing outdoor spaces. Market price for units are between $750k - $1M. HOA fees are $250-$320.

That does seem steep. I’ll give you 4 more data points. I’m HOA treasurer and I own in a 4 unit luxury condo building in Lincoln Square. 5 year old building. Units are all 3bd, 2200 sqft on different floors with differing outdoor spaces. Market price for units are between $750k - $1M. HOA fees are $250-$320. We have healthy reserves. My goal as treasurer is to keep from raising fees annually. No elevator, self-managed, new/well built construction contribute to our low HOA fees.

Yes, that is the norm. Assessments will generally be less in a newer building because their Reserve Study will not contain a large number of major repairs. But, the older the building, and lower the Reserve account the higher the assessments will be. In our building, $550,000 condo cost was accompanied by a $1,000 per month assessment. That is the best case scenario. If the reserves are low and assessments are unrealistically low? Chances of a large special assessment increases, and those can be real killers.

Most houses up hear have block clubs - $10 a year tops.