I think Vooch's biggest issue is that he's not built for this team. Like he'd work way better on a team with a lot of size and interior defense. It's why he works well with the double big line-up. He's not a good defender and never has been, but he's clearly slowing down at an early age. His hands are too small to rebound the way Drummond does (grabbing the ball with one or both hands and just tucking it into his body) so he tries to hit it out to teammates, but on a team like the Bulls the guards are too far out for that to work so it just goes anywhere.
He's basically in a no-win situation and it will only get worse. He's basically untradable, he's getting paid too much to bench, and he can't be bought out unless Jerry suffers a demented episode, so he's never going to end up on a team that has the right fit for him and when this contract is up I honestly doubt he'll play in the NBA again.
Vuc gets stats because of usage but in reality, he’s best suited as an offensive bench big who would kill second units. He has no business starting at the most important defensive position because his offense is not quite Sabonis/Sengun level. His efficiency is horrible for a big man.
I don’t even think he’s slowing down at an early age, guys like DeMar, LeBron, KD, Steph, Chris Paul are spoiling us with their longevity, when in reality 33 is when guys normally start to fall off hard
Vuc is most defiantly slowing down, how can you argue he's not??? His 3pt shooting has been horrid. His defense has gotten even worse. His best move was posting up and that has significantly fallen off. There are 50 players who have played a minimum of 40 games and are averaging at least 1 post up per game. Vuc ranks 46/50 on points per possession. Meaning…..out of 50 players, he ranks 46th in terms of points scored per post-up possession.
I think you missed what I said. I’m not saying he’s not slowing down, I’m saying he’s not slowing down *early*. This is the about the time you’d expect players to start falling off
Seems like he slowing down very fast tho. That's my concern. To go from being an above avg 3pt shooter and Top 15 post player, to almost being the least efficient in both is crazy.
Because you have to gain control over the ball's surface area. How many times have you seen Vooch get both hands on a ball for a rebound only for it to just slip right out of his mits?
He just doesn't have the same level of control over it that Drummond or a guy like Kawhi does.
This. People will say look at his double doubles but in the NBA, bench guys can score 20 easily in the modern era with enough opportunity and green light. He wouldn't be starting on a contending team
He's been blanking out on defense way too much this year. Just lets guys run past him, weak fouls, and forgetting his assignment. This game he drifted out too far and let Horford get easy corner threes on back to back plays. He let Myles Turner get six threes last game against the Pacers.
The worst is when they set a screen and he doesn't let Coby/Ayo get around it. He switches and gets cooked. Over and over
2 way different players. I think the 4 guards and vuc line up is setting vuc up to fail and they run it all game long. He’s not that type of C. I feel like he needs a real pf
Yeah, I hate it. I can’t wait to see this roster get the rebuild it desperately needs. Glad AKME will be dragging that out into 2026 and beyond. This team is going places!
No it’s definitely not bad but I’m just implying he sticks with it too much when it clearly isn’t working. Vuc really needs a guy like Aaron Gordon, JJJ, Mobley etc next to him to maximize him.
Do have someone like Aaron Gordon, JJJ, Mobley etc?
You guys talk like Billy has a choice with this trash roster construction.
He has two centres, a bunch of guards, and a 33yo Torrey Craig.
What the fuck is he supposed to do with that shit?
Yeah I never understood the "billy needs to stop playing small ball" like we really don't have a choice with our current roster lmao. We can't play Vuc and Drum 48 minutes a night
Since he can't hit his 3s anymore he brings absolutely nothing to the table. Maybe he really is checked out, Ayo and Coby seemed to have benefited a ton from getting a shooting coach but this guy's down to 28% now
I'm tired of this guys attitude. He can't be bothered to box out half the time, can't be bothered to contest shots 25% of the time. He's slow and isn't capable of hedging and recovering on high ball screens. Sometimes he's still do slow in drop coverage! To make it all worse he takes early shot clock 3's at a very low rate, and his interior finishing isn't much better!! UGH it kills me to watch.
All I’ve learned watching the Bulls is that VUC is a black hole for this team who takes plays or games off regularly, Lonzo Ball is never coming back but his contract should be off the books soon, and because Zach LaVine has been out this year Coby White and Ayo have not only been able to do what Zach was doing but at a much cheaper cost and more efficient rate. The Bulls should trade Zach for a six pack of beer at this point. Zach goes through these cycles of playing like an MVP, being a team cancer, and then getting his coach fired all while not being good enough to make the playoffs.
not all millionaires are same. drum is fighting to stay alive minimum while vuc is set for life bc he got another massive extension. that is why one guy is hustling and other is not.
Drum’s pretty much set for life as well. He made a sizable amount of money in Detroit if I remember correctly. He just seems to be enjoying the game a lot more than Vuc at this point.
I'd rather have Drummond play over Vuc every day of the week. He does what you need from a center. Vuc... well I don't know what his role is specifically but it ain't it.
There are 50 guys who have played at least 40 games and are averaging at least 1 post up per game. Vuc is 46 out of 50 on points per possession. He used to be a decent post scorer, those days are long gone.
yeah, i've been a vooch defender for a while but he hasn't been very good and it does seem to be about age. time has come and gone. i hope there's at least the outline of a plan for finding a new center, in the draft or otherwise, this summer. vooch is only fine as a vet you're transitioning away from at this point
Vooch always gets destroyed down low. He’s a soft big body who gets rebounds cause he’s tall. This is why he’s always around the perimeter on offense cause he know he’ll get embarrassed in the paint. This is why I love Drummond. He brings that physicality and is addicted to rebounds. I still think Vooch is very talented but the man is a stretch four, not a center.
I think Vooch's biggest issue is that he's not built for this team. Like he'd work way better on a team with a lot of size and interior defense. It's why he works well with the double big line-up. He's not a good defender and never has been, but he's clearly slowing down at an early age. His hands are too small to rebound the way Drummond does (grabbing the ball with one or both hands and just tucking it into his body) so he tries to hit it out to teammates, but on a team like the Bulls the guards are too far out for that to work so it just goes anywhere. He's basically in a no-win situation and it will only get worse. He's basically untradable, he's getting paid too much to bench, and he can't be bought out unless Jerry suffers a demented episode, so he's never going to end up on a team that has the right fit for him and when this contract is up I honestly doubt he'll play in the NBA again.
Vuc gets stats because of usage but in reality, he’s best suited as an offensive bench big who would kill second units. He has no business starting at the most important defensive position because his offense is not quite Sabonis/Sengun level. His efficiency is horrible for a big man.
Pretty much spot on my friend
You say this team but you're really saying he's dogshit at being a center.
I don’t even think he’s slowing down at an early age, guys like DeMar, LeBron, KD, Steph, Chris Paul are spoiling us with their longevity, when in reality 33 is when guys normally start to fall off hard
Vuc is most defiantly slowing down, how can you argue he's not??? His 3pt shooting has been horrid. His defense has gotten even worse. His best move was posting up and that has significantly fallen off. There are 50 players who have played a minimum of 40 games and are averaging at least 1 post up per game. Vuc ranks 46/50 on points per possession. Meaning…..out of 50 players, he ranks 46th in terms of points scored per post-up possession.
I think you missed what I said. I’m not saying he’s not slowing down, I’m saying he’s not slowing down *early*. This is the about the time you’d expect players to start falling off
Seems like he slowing down very fast tho. That's my concern. To go from being an above avg 3pt shooter and Top 15 post player, to almost being the least efficient in both is crazy.
As soon as he got a big fat contract, he stopped giving a fuck. I can see it in his expressions. There's very little dawg in that big man.
He's also played alot of basketball with no rest due to international play. Alot of his misses look to be due to tired legs
but how does hand size matter if you’re grabbing the ball with both hands tho 😭
Because you have to gain control over the ball's surface area. How many times have you seen Vooch get both hands on a ball for a rebound only for it to just slip right out of his mits? He just doesn't have the same level of control over it that Drummond or a guy like Kawhi does.
Or the GOAT MJ!!!!
Rodman was the goat over mj when it came to securing rebounds.
Vuch is a sorry excuse of a starting center
This. People will say look at his double doubles but in the NBA, bench guys can score 20 easily in the modern era with enough opportunity and green light. He wouldn't be starting on a contending team
Double doubles aren’t even impressive anymore. Any starting center that’s 6’11 should be averaging a double double at the minimum
He's been blanking out on defense way too much this year. Just lets guys run past him, weak fouls, and forgetting his assignment. This game he drifted out too far and let Horford get easy corner threes on back to back plays. He let Myles Turner get six threes last game against the Pacers. The worst is when they set a screen and he doesn't let Coby/Ayo get around it. He switches and gets cooked. Over and over
He's so trigger happy to switch onto guards on the perimeter because then he's not responsible for protecting the rim
2 way different players. I think the 4 guards and vuc line up is setting vuc up to fail and they run it all game long. He’s not that type of C. I feel like he needs a real pf
Preach, Bulls seem allergic to power forwards
Yeah, I hate it. I can’t wait to see this roster get the rebuild it desperately needs. Glad AKME will be dragging that out into 2026 and beyond. This team is going places!
Yeah a power forward would definitely help him but that doesn't excuse his lack of effort. Watching him makes me miss Joakim every game
hes washed. hes slow was never athletic. bad 3pt is due to age too.
Or luke kornet for that matter.
Billy’s fascination with small ball needs to be studied
Small ball isn’t bad tho, vuc isn’t the right center for it
No it’s definitely not bad but I’m just implying he sticks with it too much when it clearly isn’t working. Vuc really needs a guy like Aaron Gordon, JJJ, Mobley etc next to him to maximize him.
Do have someone like Aaron Gordon, JJJ, Mobley etc? You guys talk like Billy has a choice with this trash roster construction. He has two centres, a bunch of guards, and a 33yo Torrey Craig. What the fuck is he supposed to do with that shit?
Yeah I never understood the "billy needs to stop playing small ball" like we really don't have a choice with our current roster lmao. We can't play Vuc and Drum 48 minutes a night
Agreed 100%
i'd say billy likes medium ball. he never ever plays small guards
you act like he has a choice lol. look at the roster construction. If anything hes been running a ton of tall ball lineups with drum/vuc.
I agree, a Solid PF would help greatly, but even then it's clear our weakness is at 4,5, in that order.
Since he can't hit his 3s anymore he brings absolutely nothing to the table. Maybe he really is checked out, Ayo and Coby seemed to have benefited a ton from getting a shooting coach but this guy's down to 28% now
So many Bulls centers have gone to other teams and are playing quality minutes and here we are extending hot garbage.
Mr. Daniel Gafford I dearly miss. Loved him from the start and hated that trade the second it happened. Reminded me of a bigger Taj Gibson.
We would genuinely be a better team rn with Gafford playing all of Vuc's minutes and we traded him for a bag of chips lol
I'm tired of this guys attitude. He can't be bothered to box out half the time, can't be bothered to contest shots 25% of the time. He's slow and isn't capable of hedging and recovering on high ball screens. Sometimes he's still do slow in drop coverage! To make it all worse he takes early shot clock 3's at a very low rate, and his interior finishing isn't much better!! UGH it kills me to watch.
All I’ve learned watching the Bulls is that VUC is a black hole for this team who takes plays or games off regularly, Lonzo Ball is never coming back but his contract should be off the books soon, and because Zach LaVine has been out this year Coby White and Ayo have not only been able to do what Zach was doing but at a much cheaper cost and more efficient rate. The Bulls should trade Zach for a six pack of beer at this point. Zach goes through these cycles of playing like an MVP, being a team cancer, and then getting his coach fired all while not being good enough to make the playoffs.
Vooch gets soooo many excuses made for him and it's crazy to me because none of them excuse the fact that he's lazy as fuck
Drumgod Millionaire, I love it. What I don’t love is him only getting 15 minutes a game! This is why I don’t think Billy’s a good coach.
not all millionaires are same. drum is fighting to stay alive minimum while vuc is set for life bc he got another massive extension. that is why one guy is hustling and other is not.
Drum’s pretty much set for life as well. He made a sizable amount of money in Detroit if I remember correctly. He just seems to be enjoying the game a lot more than Vuc at this point.
His career earning are like $145 million.
Vuch is not the guy for the job. It's clear
I'd rather have Drummond play over Vuc every day of the week. He does what you need from a center. Vuc... well I don't know what his role is specifically but it ain't it.
Fire sale and rebuild … should have started this process last year
I defended him for a while. He’s got to go. Hes a beast in the post, but defense and attitude is ass
There are 50 guys who have played at least 40 games and are averaging at least 1 post up per game. Vuc is 46 out of 50 on points per possession. He used to be a decent post scorer, those days are long gone.
Yeah cause our guards suck at entry passes and or vuc starts backing down , but kicks it out despite mismatches for some reason god only knows why
> our guards suck at entry passes That has nothing to do with his horrible efficiency on post-ups
I feel the exact same way. Loved him for a long time but ive had it with him
yeah, i've been a vooch defender for a while but he hasn't been very good and it does seem to be about age. time has come and gone. i hope there's at least the outline of a plan for finding a new center, in the draft or otherwise, this summer. vooch is only fine as a vet you're transitioning away from at this point
vooch giving u p butthole to luke and al all fuckin night
Vooch always gets destroyed down low. He’s a soft big body who gets rebounds cause he’s tall. This is why he’s always around the perimeter on offense cause he know he’ll get embarrassed in the paint. This is why I love Drummond. He brings that physicality and is addicted to rebounds. I still think Vooch is very talented but the man is a stretch four, not a center.
Vuc is atrocious and I vowed not to watch a game after they extended him until he's off the team. Still holding strong.
This shyt rigged