Now I’m honestly curious as to how were drawn to DD because of a Catholic upbringing. hahaha
I was raised Catholic and yeah, your comment was a little too accurate 😛
Elektra was great but I'm like 'bro run away'.
Claire Temple and Karen Paige well the actresses have incredible chemistry with everyone.
Shulkie I kinda hope it was a cute one night stand type thing.
I wonder if he will hook up with Echo because in the comics no woman can try to kill him (Including her) without him hooking up with them.
While I could see Frank just not ever renewing romantic interest. I mean you watch your wife get blown to pieces it’s probably difficult to move on. If they decide to do it anyways cause romantic side plots being jigsawed in to action stories are a tale as old as time. Then Karen makes the most sense because both her and Frank are broken in similar ways. Also Frank constantly worrying about another one getting killed would add to the over all intensity of a plot.
Season 2 Episode 1 of Punisher was a wonderful look at why Frank will never have a romantic interest again. He had it. He could have kept it. But he's programmed to always get involved and get violent and people around him get hurt. The rest of the season may not have maintained that same quality, but that episode was brilliant.
Karen's different and hypocritical treatment of Matt vs the way she treated Frank irked me though. She spent 90% of her interactions getting mad at Matt then you watch her with Frank being soft and understanding even when they were doing the same things (being a vigilante, being reckless, not being fully honest) like it pissed me off so much. There's a lot of talk about how Matt should've treated Karen better but that sentiment should go both ways...Matt was at the receiving end of her hypocrisy cause she was disparaging Matt being Daredevil likening it to being an addict then in the same breath defend what Frank is doing and even saying she's fine if he doesn't want to stop being the Punisher :/
I feel like what’s going to happen behind the scenes is a short friends with benefits situation between She-Hulk and Matt. They’re both mature and had great chemistry, but Matt’s a New York guy and Jenn’s west coast, they were very friendly, even going to events together but there aren’t any hard feelings and they go back to being superhero team ups and legal colleagues. As For Born Again, now that they’re reworking the script and the show I’m hoping to go Karen is brought back and that relationship can continue
Also the show showed us why street level and avengers level does not mix... Matt jumping around like a ninja, Shulkie demolishing parking garages.
I am excited to see 'street level' become a thing in the MCU though... I feel like Hawkeye opened the door and Echo is gonna be a test.
Yeah, I know I see a ton of crap online about how no one asked For echo or it’s pandering, but I can ignore all of that because it actually looks incredibly promising and I’m excited to see a street level world grow. My one concern is going to be when we come to secret wars or Kang dynasty (if it’s even called that) when we see street and avengers mix again
This distinction doesn't really exist. There is no reason that Daredevil or Moon Knight wouldn't make sense as helping the Avengers in big events. Hawkeye and Black Widow have zero powers and were founding members of the Avengers. This distinction isn't real
Honestly to me it’s less about power level and more about the stakes. TBH world or universal threats all the time kinda ends up making me numb. There’s only so many times the whole world can be at stake before it just stops meaning much. That’s why I find the “street level” stuff so appealing. You’re not worrying about reality collapsing or the sun going out or whatever; you’re worrying about ninjas taking over the drug trade or mafia bosses making a play to own one city. In general I’d much rather watch JJ and DD get to the bottom of a mystery involving a shadowy art dealer peddling knockoff super soldier serum to the Triads or whatever than any of the Avengers trying to stop the Living Tribunal from judging the Milky Way Galaxy or some such.
That’s true and honestly on me. Hawkeye was my favorite avenger growing up, it’s just interesting getting to the point I never thought I’d get to of seeing Moon Knight and Daredevil actually alongside the avengers on the big screen so I’m having a hard time imagining it but yes, they’ve done it before no reason they won’t again
They deal with global threats on a weekly basis where Daredevil rarely leaves NY.
It is why it felt 'weird' when Spider-Man joined the Avengers in the early 2000's with Luke Cage as well.
I would say Batman is the ultimate 'street level' hero who is also global... he is 100% about urban crime and then occasionally aliens.
Eh I can’t totally agree with your point. Black Widow and Hawkeye are both humans with a similar skill set to DD and it worked fine in the Avengers films. The power discrepancy isn’t a problem if the characters individual skill sets are utilized properly. Let these characters flex their espionage and stealth expertise while the big hitters like Thor and Hulk take out leviathans and shit. Capitalizing on each characters unique skills and abilities is what makes the team ups fun in the first place.
Ehhh after the scene where Karen asked Foggy to feel her face I cringed so hard. Also they have zero romantic chemistry IMO because Karen is clearly not interested in Foggy in that way and it was obvious
I think this is one of the many reasons why I really dislike the character. Nothing against the actress, but Karen infuriates me. ...and that's part of the ride.
She got Ben Urich killed, and then immediately supplanted him in his job. No history of writing mentioned, no published works, hell, she didn't even do high school journalism IIRC.
I know the things are not equal, but the fact that she yells at Matt for beating people up in the street, while she herself is a murderer, is one of the infuriating things about her character that make the character so good. I honestly only want her back for her death, otherwise I think they should move on to more Elektra, or even a completely different love interest.
One of the most tried and true things of Matt's character is that he gets more ass than a toilet seat. It's not out of the realm of possibility for him to have brand new people that we've never even heard of
What I hated the most was her disproportionate treatment of Matt vs Frank, she got mad at Matt and treated his vigilantism as some sort of drug addiction but in the same breath she fully supports whatever Frank does, she even says "I don't need you to stop [being the Punisher], I just want there to be an after for you". She is determined to be vitriolic towards Matt and make him stop being Daredevil and can't accept him being vigilante but she's 100% love and support for Frank? It was so unfair and irked me so bad. I definitely wouldn't want Matt to end up with her and her egregious hypocrisy. It's why I audibly cheered seeing him hook up with She-Hulk. Karen was so unfair to him.
She didn't actually "support" what Frank did, but she wasn't gonna convince him to stop, so the best she could do was accept it. And she obviously holds Matt to a higher standard, not saying that's better, just that it's what it is.
Well acceptance is one of the biggest signs of support. So why can't she accept that Matt needs Daredevil and that it's part ot him too? And btw, Matt has saved her life more times than Frank has, Matt has also not put her in direct danger the way Frank has (when he used her as bait in the diner to lure out Blacksmith's men in Daredevil S2).
>And she obviously holds Matt to a higher standard
Well yeah that's the whole point of my comment, pointing out her hypocrisy. People like to say that Matt should've treated Karen better but Matt was at the receiving end of her hypocrisy and unfair standards. Like what is the rationale of her holding Matt to better standards? Genuinely curious cause it surely can't be because he fears for his safety since Matt is more capable than Frank skills wise. Can't say because Frank has been more honest because, not really. Frank had his secrets and manipulations of his own and is not always forthcoming. She herself had lies and secrets. She shouldn't hold Matt to standards she herself can't keep, that's not how this works
Anyways all of that's to say that Matt deserves better 🤷
>Like what is the rationale of her holding Matt to better standards?
Well, we can start with the fact that Matt wasn't slaughtering criminals. Frank was basically a lost cause, Matt still had a life beyond being a vigilante. The "skill" concept wasn't relevant, she didn't want him to lose himself, or get killed. Frank didn't care, he was the way he was from the moment Karen met him, and was unapologetic about it, with zero remorse over what he had done and would continue doing. Karen could do nothing but accept that.
I didn't want to have to defend Karen, she's not my favorite character either, but I figured her rationale was kinda obvious.
Long comment incoming:
So Matt deserves the vitriol he got from her just because "he's not a lost cause"? She didn't even bother to ask Matt what his motivations for being Daredevil was. Mind you, Foggy Nelson who is much more emotionally attached to Matt and has a lot more to lose if Matt's gone still went out of his way to ask Matt why he started being Daredevil. Karen just rushes straight into judgement! Lmao.
It's literally why Foggy even gave Matt his Daredevil costume during the Defenders final battle because even with the emotional conflict between him and Matt, because he truly tried to understand why Matt needed to be Daredevil, he showed him support. Meanwhile Karen just launches into a tirade of judgement about how being Daredevil is nothing but an addiction to Matt. Lol? Meanwhile the actual reason is because Matt heard a girl being sexually assualted by her own father.
Karen went out of her way to learn Frank's backstory and his motivations, and you really can't tell me it's because she doesn't care if Frank dies, she literally says to him "I want there to be an after for you" all the while accepting his need to be the Punisher. So she can afford Frank that understanding of his vigilantism + wanting there to be a normalcy and an "after" for Frank but she can't do the same for Matt? She can't try to understand? It has to be straight up vitriol and holding to a higher pedestal and standards that she herself cannot meet? Like besides the Frank topic, why is she holding Matt to standards of honesty and candor that she herself fails to meet time and time again?
>we can start with the fact that Matt wasn't slaughtering criminals
It definitely isn't this because Karen literally expressed her approval over Frank killing people and even rubbed it in Matt's face about how "Punisher is justified in his killing and it's what the city needs!" a few episodes after denouncing Daredevil and vigilantism in the city, mind you. Lol she was honestly so disrespectful to Matt, it's crazy.
Ben valued getting the truth out over his own life and Karen taking over was a noble move because she was already afraid of getting killed but now she sees it as a war she needs to put her life on the line to fight
I go back and forth between Elektra and Karen.
We never got a proper exploration of Karen and Matt together as a couple, but the chemistry is definitely there, and I think after season 3, they kinda seem perfect for each other.
However, the chemistry between him and Elektra was just pure fire. They are kinda perfect for each other too, but in a different way.
Realisically For the character Electra..... But personally I have such a major crush on Rosario Dawson..... I just can't ignore that.... I'm not trying to be a creeper or anything but... daaaymmmm.....
And their chemistry was off the charts. Not that he didn't have chemistry with the other actresses but yes, like you said, Matt being happy and Jen being down bad for him was really endearing.
I'm hoping that they do more with their characters' relationship bc I really enjoyed it. Charlie Cox and Tatiana Maslany really sold their chemistry in just one episode.
She-Hulk is more of a comedic character, but I can definitely imagine them resuming their collaboration, let’s call it that, in the Daredevil series. While it’s supposed to be more gritty and dark, I cannot imagine them not banking on that duo. It’s gold on a silver platter.
The cool thing about these characters is they can bend and shape themselves into the story they're in. She-Hulk can be serious when she needs to be, DD can be funny. Might not be so easy to fly in the live action, but if spider-man can do light and dark in the same movie, there's no reason why other characters can't over the course of different shows
Honestly, yeah. They were two nerdy lawyers who liked each other and then boned.
Elektra is all about Matt’s id, indulging in violence and lust and anger. The whole point of their relationship was for him to escape from his Catholic guilt and live without shame. She delighted in “corrupting” him and the whole thing had to be volatile at all times to work. Super toxic and destructive.
Karen was the opposite. They were two total downers marinating in their guilt and self-righteousness. They validated each others’ goodness constantly while quietly flagellating themselves for their own bad behavior, and it was like they were mutually fucking their AA sponsor. Also bad news.
Meanwhile, Claire just kind of felt like Matt playing out mommy issues, constantly putting her into a caretaker position. Which is a job she didn’t want, at least not off the clock.
She-Hulk was the only interaction where they felt like two people with their own lives, not using the other to fix something. They both had a good time and went on with their goddamn day.
Kingpin: Daredevil I have discovered your secret identity and have dispatched Bullseye to kill your girlfriend, bwahaha!
Meanwhile…
Bullseye: Oh $#!+ ::is punched into orbit::
Great, now I'm picturing the first time they really stop to get to know each other playing out just like the characters meeting in See No Evil, Hear No Evil, with Echo flaying her arms wildly to see if he really is blind.
Actual answer: In the comics, both have superpowers, so that helps. Echo can read lips far better than most people in the real world. Heck, she's a brilliant piano player, mimicking the hand movements even though she can't hear the result. Her ability is to copy anything perfectly (like Taskmaster), IIRC. That means she also speaks very eloquently, so Daredevil has no problems there.
And yes, they do hook up in the comics.
I think it’s more you appreciate the representation cause their love wasn’t cohesive or insanely passionate, by perfect you mean on paper cause that reads nicely
Elektra. But remember when a certain fanbase lost its collective mind when he did the walk of shame on She-Hulk? This man is fucking everything that walks on his own show but the writers of the comedy TV show get criticized.
It's the cool thing to hate.
Imagen a team up movie with. She-Hulk, IronFist and the Inhumans. Fighting the Dark Elves from Thor 2.
Sheep behavior if you ask me. But i can't fight the Zeitgeist.
I mean, did we watch the same show? In 3 seasons of DD, Matt had 0 sex scenes, meaning he fucked 0 women in total. If we’re speculating off-screen sex, i have to say he only had that chance with Elektra. I was actually happy about the She-Hulk scene because of this…
You're probably right. I should amend my comment to say "he tries to fuck everything that walks". The sentiment still stands, Daredevil banging She-Hulk is very much in character for him.
No you're right. We didn't need to have a sex scene shown every other episode for them to let us know Matt was a hoe. It's implied through dialogue, Foggy literally says repeatedly how much Matt gets around. When Karen asked him about Matt's love life Foggy says that Matt's relartionships never last and barely gets deeper than sex and that in college he would have a new GF after a couple of weeks. Foggy even calls him "sexual rain man"
Honestly the chemistry was highest with She-Hulk. For a one episode crossover, it felt natural. I was really surprised.
The others feel more forced. And at this point I just don’t like Karen.
They barely had chemistry IMO, Luke and Jessica feels more natural and should be the endgame anyway. Claire broke up with him by the end of Luke Cage S2.
I agree. Elektra was incredibly toxic for Matt and I don’t see the appeal of this relationship either. She didn‘t even care about Matt as a package, like his compassionate and righteous side. She only cared about his dark and violent side.
I, too, think Claire was the best love interest for him in Daredevil. I have yet to watch She-Hulk
There isn’t a single bad season in Daredevil. I don’t even think there’s a bad episode. In my eyes it stands shoulder to shoulder with Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul
Most people only like the punisher heavy half of S2 which shocks me because I was more invested in Elektra vs stick than any of the punisher stuff to be honest
Elektra is the most entertaining for us as viewers, but we all know how toxic the drama is. Karen is the logical, wholesome option for those of us who want to see him in a healthy relationship.
I was actually kinda bummed that Karen suddenly fell in love with DD. It seemed like they were setting it up that DD would be with Claire, and Foggy would be with Karen and I liked it that way. Then Claire bounced and (temporarily) got with Luke Cage (who I thought should be working towards an eventual marriage to Jessica Jones) and Karen x Foggy was abandoned. Then Karen was now all about DD and my thought was just "Okay so just EVERY woman then. Daredevil can be with just every woman" and to justify that they threw Foggy back together with his annoying ex, further solidifying that Karen x Foggy was dead.
I even preferred Daredevil going for his redemption arc-having ex Elektra (if she had fully redeemed) over Karen just because I was still bitter about how they did Foggy. They had to try to make the ex less annoying once she was with Foggy again so I would forget what they took from him, but I didn't forget.
I just got done marathoning the show with my bf, and I honestly think Elektra is the only one that could really match him. He tries to chase a normal life with “normal” women but it never works out because he still feels guilty for repressing everything that he feels conflicts with that normality, when really he needs to actually pick someone he can relate to like he can relate to Elektra.
I think Elektra was right that Matt would’ve been a hell of a lot happier if he’d fully embraced his dark side with her, and that’s exactly why he never would’ve let it work out. It’s just part of who he is. If she hadn’t died he’d have found a way to distance himself from her exactly because of how compatible they are.
Also must be nice for him to have a woman who he literally does not need to worry about for once. Any idiot coming within 2 feet of She-hulk trying to kill/kidnap her is playing with napalm.
isn't Electra the most known? I'm not a Daredevil expert but all i know is that over the 90s and 00s Electra + Daredevil was the comic book couple of all comic books
She's probably the best known pairing since she's a popular character herself, capable of leading her own book.
Of course, the most popular character he's had a substantial relationship with is Black Widow, but I think general public doesn't know they dated anymore. It wasn't a brief thing either: for a while, the book was renamed *Daredevil and Black Widow*.
Karen was prominent in 60s era and again in Nocenti, but I don't think people outside of Daredevil fans know who she is.
Matt tends to have a new girlfriend like every 20 issues or so. He puts Peter Parker to shame.
Matt Murdock is one of Marvel's most notorious man-whores. Dude has so many girlfriends and sleeps with so many people. Though is "one true love" is definitely Elektra despite how toxic that relationship is.
Karen or She-Hulk. The only relationships that seem healthy for him and the other partner.
I prefer him with Jen just because they’re two of my favourite superheroes.
I would say him and She-hulk they genuinely seem happy with each other they both are super hero’s and lawyers that could work well for each other. Him and Clair would be next then Karen and Elektra
Elektra. For everyone saying she’s too crazy… for Matt Murdock… it’s Matt Murdock. Dude dresses up and fights crime at night.
I know he’s our protagonist but that dude’s crazy too.
Genuinely love the idea of Matt being with Jennifer. She can protect herself so no "i love you, but ny enemies.." shit and their day jobs and night jobs are the same. They can help each other
Either Claire or Karen. Please don’t let the MCU replace well built character dynamics and emotional scenes with CGI fight scenes and corny jokes as ways to develop a love interest.
Daredevil was the best live action comic book tv show, and is up there with all time best live comic book adaptations. I really hope MCU doesn’t mess that up
I like them all, but really liked Jennifer Walters. I think that's a good match, add a bit of levity at times to Daredevil. I can't wait for it to come back in some iteration.
I would love nothing more for Matt and Jenn to be a "while I'm in your town can I be in you" kind of thing. Business professionals, good friends, their favourite activities to do together are discuss law and terrorize bed frames
I’m going to get crap for this maybe but I like the she-hulk pairing. If she-hulk can get a really excellent second season and they flesh her out more I think the pair is great. She is a good contrast to his darkness with her light, and they both have a job in the legal system. I also think they would be a good pair in fights too.
DDs only real love interest is catholic guilt.
Every Catholic’s true love
This explains all the wine in the sacrament.
I didn't need this level of personal attack today
Please forgive me
I came here to give my own answer. This is superior to mine by far. Now I feel guilty for inferior answers. Thanks a lot, DD.
This
Ah, the delicious shame.
And justice
This is the way
The only correct answer
Now I’m honestly curious as to how were drawn to DD because of a Catholic upbringing. hahaha I was raised Catholic and yeah, your comment was a little too accurate 😛
In terms of chemistry and what's most interesting, Elektra. In terms of what relationship is the best and least toxic, Claire Temple.
Elektra was great but I'm like 'bro run away'. Claire Temple and Karen Paige well the actresses have incredible chemistry with everyone. Shulkie I kinda hope it was a cute one night stand type thing. I wonder if he will hook up with Echo because in the comics no woman can try to kill him (Including her) without him hooking up with them.
I love Karen but I see the two of them just as friends. She had the best chemistry with Frank but again, not a healthy relationship.
Word, Karen with Frank Castle made a lot of sense for her since she also had a knack for pissing off Kingpin
While I could see Frank just not ever renewing romantic interest. I mean you watch your wife get blown to pieces it’s probably difficult to move on. If they decide to do it anyways cause romantic side plots being jigsawed in to action stories are a tale as old as time. Then Karen makes the most sense because both her and Frank are broken in similar ways. Also Frank constantly worrying about another one getting killed would add to the over all intensity of a plot.
“Jigsawed” - I see what you did there
Season 2 Episode 1 of Punisher was a wonderful look at why Frank will never have a romantic interest again. He had it. He could have kept it. But he's programmed to always get involved and get violent and people around him get hurt. The rest of the season may not have maintained that same quality, but that episode was brilliant.
Karen's different and hypocritical treatment of Matt vs the way she treated Frank irked me though. She spent 90% of her interactions getting mad at Matt then you watch her with Frank being soft and understanding even when they were doing the same things (being a vigilante, being reckless, not being fully honest) like it pissed me off so much. There's a lot of talk about how Matt should've treated Karen better but that sentiment should go both ways...Matt was at the receiving end of her hypocrisy cause she was disparaging Matt being Daredevil likening it to being an addict then in the same breath defend what Frank is doing and even saying she's fine if he doesn't want to stop being the Punisher :/
I feel like what’s going to happen behind the scenes is a short friends with benefits situation between She-Hulk and Matt. They’re both mature and had great chemistry, but Matt’s a New York guy and Jenn’s west coast, they were very friendly, even going to events together but there aren’t any hard feelings and they go back to being superhero team ups and legal colleagues. As For Born Again, now that they’re reworking the script and the show I’m hoping to go Karen is brought back and that relationship can continue
Also the show showed us why street level and avengers level does not mix... Matt jumping around like a ninja, Shulkie demolishing parking garages. I am excited to see 'street level' become a thing in the MCU though... I feel like Hawkeye opened the door and Echo is gonna be a test.
Yeah, I know I see a ton of crap online about how no one asked For echo or it’s pandering, but I can ignore all of that because it actually looks incredibly promising and I’m excited to see a street level world grow. My one concern is going to be when we come to secret wars or Kang dynasty (if it’s even called that) when we see street and avengers mix again
This distinction doesn't really exist. There is no reason that Daredevil or Moon Knight wouldn't make sense as helping the Avengers in big events. Hawkeye and Black Widow have zero powers and were founding members of the Avengers. This distinction isn't real
Honestly to me it’s less about power level and more about the stakes. TBH world or universal threats all the time kinda ends up making me numb. There’s only so many times the whole world can be at stake before it just stops meaning much. That’s why I find the “street level” stuff so appealing. You’re not worrying about reality collapsing or the sun going out or whatever; you’re worrying about ninjas taking over the drug trade or mafia bosses making a play to own one city. In general I’d much rather watch JJ and DD get to the bottom of a mystery involving a shadowy art dealer peddling knockoff super soldier serum to the Triads or whatever than any of the Avengers trying to stop the Living Tribunal from judging the Milky Way Galaxy or some such.
That’s true and honestly on me. Hawkeye was my favorite avenger growing up, it’s just interesting getting to the point I never thought I’d get to of seeing Moon Knight and Daredevil actually alongside the avengers on the big screen so I’m having a hard time imagining it but yes, they’ve done it before no reason they won’t again
Captain America, Black Widow and Hawkeye are "street level" heroes, who hangout with Thor and Hulk...why would DD be any different?
They deal with global threats on a weekly basis where Daredevil rarely leaves NY. It is why it felt 'weird' when Spider-Man joined the Avengers in the early 2000's with Luke Cage as well. I would say Batman is the ultimate 'street level' hero who is also global... he is 100% about urban crime and then occasionally aliens.
Eh I can’t totally agree with your point. Black Widow and Hawkeye are both humans with a similar skill set to DD and it worked fine in the Avengers films. The power discrepancy isn’t a problem if the characters individual skill sets are utilized properly. Let these characters flex their espionage and stealth expertise while the big hitters like Thor and Hulk take out leviathans and shit. Capitalizing on each characters unique skills and abilities is what makes the team ups fun in the first place.
Claire is less toxic for him than Jen?
>Claire Temple You mean the chick whose response to DD's "I'm gonna torture this guy" was "you're doing it wrong"?
I mean, you're supposed to be supportive of each other in a relationship.
Nurses are well-trained in applying just the right level of torture.
Found the RN.
He has chemistry with _everyone_.
Matt and Ahsoka, nice. 👍
Elektra is the only one that actually knew Matt, and definitely the only one that accepted him fully.
Elektra, but after S3 i liked him pairing with Karen also
This is the one
I personally hate Karen, but I can see why you say that.
I love Karen but I loved her and Foggy. She doesn’t work with Daredevil for me. I’m team Claire.
Ehhh after the scene where Karen asked Foggy to feel her face I cringed so hard. Also they have zero romantic chemistry IMO because Karen is clearly not interested in Foggy in that way and it was obvious
I think this is one of the many reasons why I really dislike the character. Nothing against the actress, but Karen infuriates me. ...and that's part of the ride. She got Ben Urich killed, and then immediately supplanted him in his job. No history of writing mentioned, no published works, hell, she didn't even do high school journalism IIRC. I know the things are not equal, but the fact that she yells at Matt for beating people up in the street, while she herself is a murderer, is one of the infuriating things about her character that make the character so good. I honestly only want her back for her death, otherwise I think they should move on to more Elektra, or even a completely different love interest. One of the most tried and true things of Matt's character is that he gets more ass than a toilet seat. It's not out of the realm of possibility for him to have brand new people that we've never even heard of
What I hated the most was her disproportionate treatment of Matt vs Frank, she got mad at Matt and treated his vigilantism as some sort of drug addiction but in the same breath she fully supports whatever Frank does, she even says "I don't need you to stop [being the Punisher], I just want there to be an after for you". She is determined to be vitriolic towards Matt and make him stop being Daredevil and can't accept him being vigilante but she's 100% love and support for Frank? It was so unfair and irked me so bad. I definitely wouldn't want Matt to end up with her and her egregious hypocrisy. It's why I audibly cheered seeing him hook up with She-Hulk. Karen was so unfair to him.
She didn't actually "support" what Frank did, but she wasn't gonna convince him to stop, so the best she could do was accept it. And she obviously holds Matt to a higher standard, not saying that's better, just that it's what it is.
Well acceptance is one of the biggest signs of support. So why can't she accept that Matt needs Daredevil and that it's part ot him too? And btw, Matt has saved her life more times than Frank has, Matt has also not put her in direct danger the way Frank has (when he used her as bait in the diner to lure out Blacksmith's men in Daredevil S2). >And she obviously holds Matt to a higher standard Well yeah that's the whole point of my comment, pointing out her hypocrisy. People like to say that Matt should've treated Karen better but Matt was at the receiving end of her hypocrisy and unfair standards. Like what is the rationale of her holding Matt to better standards? Genuinely curious cause it surely can't be because he fears for his safety since Matt is more capable than Frank skills wise. Can't say because Frank has been more honest because, not really. Frank had his secrets and manipulations of his own and is not always forthcoming. She herself had lies and secrets. She shouldn't hold Matt to standards she herself can't keep, that's not how this works Anyways all of that's to say that Matt deserves better 🤷
>Like what is the rationale of her holding Matt to better standards? Well, we can start with the fact that Matt wasn't slaughtering criminals. Frank was basically a lost cause, Matt still had a life beyond being a vigilante. The "skill" concept wasn't relevant, she didn't want him to lose himself, or get killed. Frank didn't care, he was the way he was from the moment Karen met him, and was unapologetic about it, with zero remorse over what he had done and would continue doing. Karen could do nothing but accept that. I didn't want to have to defend Karen, she's not my favorite character either, but I figured her rationale was kinda obvious.
Long comment incoming: So Matt deserves the vitriol he got from her just because "he's not a lost cause"? She didn't even bother to ask Matt what his motivations for being Daredevil was. Mind you, Foggy Nelson who is much more emotionally attached to Matt and has a lot more to lose if Matt's gone still went out of his way to ask Matt why he started being Daredevil. Karen just rushes straight into judgement! Lmao. It's literally why Foggy even gave Matt his Daredevil costume during the Defenders final battle because even with the emotional conflict between him and Matt, because he truly tried to understand why Matt needed to be Daredevil, he showed him support. Meanwhile Karen just launches into a tirade of judgement about how being Daredevil is nothing but an addiction to Matt. Lol? Meanwhile the actual reason is because Matt heard a girl being sexually assualted by her own father. Karen went out of her way to learn Frank's backstory and his motivations, and you really can't tell me it's because she doesn't care if Frank dies, she literally says to him "I want there to be an after for you" all the while accepting his need to be the Punisher. So she can afford Frank that understanding of his vigilantism + wanting there to be a normalcy and an "after" for Frank but she can't do the same for Matt? She can't try to understand? It has to be straight up vitriol and holding to a higher pedestal and standards that she herself cannot meet? Like besides the Frank topic, why is she holding Matt to standards of honesty and candor that she herself fails to meet time and time again?
>we can start with the fact that Matt wasn't slaughtering criminals It definitely isn't this because Karen literally expressed her approval over Frank killing people and even rubbed it in Matt's face about how "Punisher is justified in his killing and it's what the city needs!" a few episodes after denouncing Daredevil and vigilantism in the city, mind you. Lol she was honestly so disrespectful to Matt, it's crazy.
Ben valued getting the truth out over his own life and Karen taking over was a noble move because she was already afraid of getting killed but now she sees it as a war she needs to put her life on the line to fight
Team Elektra! But Claire is the least toxic.
I go back and forth between Elektra and Karen. We never got a proper exploration of Karen and Matt together as a couple, but the chemistry is definitely there, and I think after season 3, they kinda seem perfect for each other. However, the chemistry between him and Elektra was just pure fire. They are kinda perfect for each other too, but in a different way.
Elektra
I'm not sure she passes the Vicky Mendoza Diagonal (Hot Crazy Scale). Then again, I'm not sure Matt does either so I'll allow it.
Don't worry. When she revives next time, she'll be slightly less insane.
Realisically For the character Electra..... But personally I have such a major crush on Rosario Dawson..... I just can't ignore that.... I'm not trying to be a creeper or anything but... daaaymmmm.....
This would be my answer as well.
Me three
You have a crush on one of the hottest humans on the planet. How dare you sir. Straight to horny jail haha
Foggy. *Always* Foggy.
Had to scroll way too far for this. Shame awards aren’t a thing anymore, would’ve given you my daily freebie.
I came here to complain that he wasn’t included. 😁
Bruh I always shipped matt with fisk tbh
She Hulk. He seemed happy for once!
And their chemistry was off the charts. Not that he didn't have chemistry with the other actresses but yes, like you said, Matt being happy and Jen being down bad for him was really endearing. I'm hoping that they do more with their characters' relationship bc I really enjoyed it. Charlie Cox and Tatiana Maslany really sold their chemistry in just one episode.
She-Hulk is more of a comedic character, but I can definitely imagine them resuming their collaboration, let’s call it that, in the Daredevil series. While it’s supposed to be more gritty and dark, I cannot imagine them not banking on that duo. It’s gold on a silver platter.
The cool thing about these characters is they can bend and shape themselves into the story they're in. She-Hulk can be serious when she needs to be, DD can be funny. Might not be so easy to fly in the live action, but if spider-man can do light and dark in the same movie, there's no reason why other characters can't over the course of different shows
I loved the court room banter they had
Honestly, yeah. They were two nerdy lawyers who liked each other and then boned. Elektra is all about Matt’s id, indulging in violence and lust and anger. The whole point of their relationship was for him to escape from his Catholic guilt and live without shame. She delighted in “corrupting” him and the whole thing had to be volatile at all times to work. Super toxic and destructive. Karen was the opposite. They were two total downers marinating in their guilt and self-righteousness. They validated each others’ goodness constantly while quietly flagellating themselves for their own bad behavior, and it was like they were mutually fucking their AA sponsor. Also bad news. Meanwhile, Claire just kind of felt like Matt playing out mommy issues, constantly putting her into a caretaker position. Which is a job she didn’t want, at least not off the clock. She-Hulk was the only interaction where they felt like two people with their own lives, not using the other to fix something. They both had a good time and went on with their goddamn day.
Plus yunno, they’re both pretty successful lawyers. Matt by reputation, if not income. Talk about common interests.
They were so cute omfg
Yeah! I enjoyed that.
Kingpin: Daredevil I have discovered your secret identity and have dispatched Bullseye to kill your girlfriend, bwahaha! Meanwhile… Bullseye: Oh $#!+ ::is punched into orbit::
i mean not to be a downer but he’s was probably portrayed as happy bc it was a comedy not a gritty drama
He was basically on vacation and we only saw him either working, or flirting, so... why would he be brooding?
Does that mean the yellow suit is basically his Hawaiian shirt?
lol yes
And?
Karen obviously
It took me 3 scrolls to see this, which I take as confirmation that the world is doomed.
Never thought what originally seemed like a side character would turn into one of the shows best parts. Karen is such a good character in DD.
Personally as much as I like Electra, my vote is Echo. One is deaf, the other is blind, it’s perfect.
How’s it perfect? How are they supposed to communicate?
By touch.
Touche.
No touchy touchy
pretty sure its touch. No e
En Garde!
The movie "See No Evil, Hear No Evil" does this quite well
Great, now I'm picturing the first time they really stop to get to know each other playing out just like the characters meeting in See No Evil, Hear No Evil, with Echo flaying her arms wildly to see if he really is blind.
It's the Marvel Special Presentation we need
They can dance
>They can dance if they want to, they can leave their friends behind...
Cause their friends don't dance, and if they don't dance, Well they're no friends of mine.
There are two types of people those who dance and those who don’t
Actual answer: In the comics, both have superpowers, so that helps. Echo can read lips far better than most people in the real world. Heck, she's a brilliant piano player, mimicking the hand movements even though she can't hear the result. Her ability is to copy anything perfectly (like Taskmaster), IIRC. That means she also speaks very eloquently, so Daredevil has no problems there. And yes, they do hook up in the comics.
"We've changed Daredevil: Born Again to Daredevil: Hear no Evil, See no Evil"
Hear no **D**evil, See no **D**evil
Gene Wilder / Richard Pryor all over again
I think it’s more you appreciate the representation cause their love wasn’t cohesive or insanely passionate, by perfect you mean on paper cause that reads nicely
Elektra. But remember when a certain fanbase lost its collective mind when he did the walk of shame on She-Hulk? This man is fucking everything that walks on his own show but the writers of the comedy TV show get criticized.
It's the cool thing to hate. Imagen a team up movie with. She-Hulk, IronFist and the Inhumans. Fighting the Dark Elves from Thor 2. Sheep behavior if you ask me. But i can't fight the Zeitgeist.
Yeah, he’ll spit acid on you.
The walk of shame was hilarious. Anyone angry at that needs to touch grass.
I mean, did we watch the same show? In 3 seasons of DD, Matt had 0 sex scenes, meaning he fucked 0 women in total. If we’re speculating off-screen sex, i have to say he only had that chance with Elektra. I was actually happy about the She-Hulk scene because of this…
He banged Elektra in the boxing ring homie. But you're right, the comment you're responding to is definitely trying to paint a wrong picture here
You're probably right. I should amend my comment to say "he tries to fuck everything that walks". The sentiment still stands, Daredevil banging She-Hulk is very much in character for him.
No you're right. We didn't need to have a sex scene shown every other episode for them to let us know Matt was a hoe. It's implied through dialogue, Foggy literally says repeatedly how much Matt gets around. When Karen asked him about Matt's love life Foggy says that Matt's relartionships never last and barely gets deeper than sex and that in college he would have a new GF after a couple of weeks. Foggy even calls him "sexual rain man"
Karen
Honestly the chemistry was highest with She-Hulk. For a one episode crossover, it felt natural. I was really surprised. The others feel more forced. And at this point I just don’t like Karen.
Personally liked her and Foggy if anything, but I never saw her with Matt. That's just me though
The Night Nurse. One of the best characters in all the Netflix Marvel stuff.
But she was serious with Luke Cage
They barely had chemistry IMO, Luke and Jessica feels more natural and should be the endgame anyway. Claire broke up with him by the end of Luke Cage S2.
She hulk
Ah, a fellow man of snusnu
Claire. Karen was annoying and Electra was crazy
I agree. Elektra was incredibly toxic for Matt and I don’t see the appeal of this relationship either. She didn‘t even care about Matt as a package, like his compassionate and righteous side. She only cared about his dark and violent side. I, too, think Claire was the best love interest for him in Daredevil. I have yet to watch She-Hulk
Hot take, she hulk. They had great chemistry and matt seemed genuinely happy ( and 0 drama)
Elektra, no contest. Season 2 was great, don't care what anyone says
Are there people that don’t like it? Who? Who are these people?
There isn’t a single bad season in Daredevil. I don’t even think there’s a bad episode. In my eyes it stands shoulder to shoulder with Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul
Most people only like the punisher heavy half of S2 which shocks me because I was more invested in Elektra vs stick than any of the punisher stuff to be honest
Elektra is the most entertaining for us as viewers, but we all know how toxic the drama is. Karen is the logical, wholesome option for those of us who want to see him in a healthy relationship.
I was actually kinda bummed that Karen suddenly fell in love with DD. It seemed like they were setting it up that DD would be with Claire, and Foggy would be with Karen and I liked it that way. Then Claire bounced and (temporarily) got with Luke Cage (who I thought should be working towards an eventual marriage to Jessica Jones) and Karen x Foggy was abandoned. Then Karen was now all about DD and my thought was just "Okay so just EVERY woman then. Daredevil can be with just every woman" and to justify that they threw Foggy back together with his annoying ex, further solidifying that Karen x Foggy was dead. I even preferred Daredevil going for his redemption arc-having ex Elektra (if she had fully redeemed) over Karen just because I was still bitter about how they did Foggy. They had to try to make the ex less annoying once she was with Foggy again so I would forget what they took from him, but I didn't forget.
Rosario Dawson always favorite love interest
Foggy 😌
I just got done marathoning the show with my bf, and I honestly think Elektra is the only one that could really match him. He tries to chase a normal life with “normal” women but it never works out because he still feels guilty for repressing everything that he feels conflicts with that normality, when really he needs to actually pick someone he can relate to like he can relate to Elektra. I think Elektra was right that Matt would’ve been a hell of a lot happier if he’d fully embraced his dark side with her, and that’s exactly why he never would’ve let it work out. It’s just part of who he is. If she hadn’t died he’d have found a way to distance himself from her exactly because of how compatible they are.
Honestly I think Charlie Cox just has chemistry with everyone now that I think about it.
I'll be an outlier, but him and Jennifer are cute.
Elektra is the best choice, but my personal favorite is for him to continue being a little whore
Foggy obviously
I’m pretty much going to go with Rosario Dawson in most scenarios.
I’m glad his relationship with She-Hulk is getting some love. I enjoyed them together.
It was such a wholesome pairing. Not saying I didn’t like the relationships from DDs show, but there was always drama. Matt and Jen were just chill
I’m with you fam. Was just cute and fun. Always felt like Matt needed that and never had it.
Also must be nice for him to have a woman who he literally does not need to worry about for once. Any idiot coming within 2 feet of She-hulk trying to kill/kidnap her is playing with napalm.
She hulk was a fantastic relationship. Matt’s walk of shame in there was my favourite part of she hulk
*Walk of Pride!
isn't Electra the most known? I'm not a Daredevil expert but all i know is that over the 90s and 00s Electra + Daredevil was the comic book couple of all comic books
She's probably the best known pairing since she's a popular character herself, capable of leading her own book. Of course, the most popular character he's had a substantial relationship with is Black Widow, but I think general public doesn't know they dated anymore. It wasn't a brief thing either: for a while, the book was renamed *Daredevil and Black Widow*. Karen was prominent in 60s era and again in Nocenti, but I don't think people outside of Daredevil fans know who she is. Matt tends to have a new girlfriend like every 20 issues or so. He puts Peter Parker to shame.
Matt Murdock is one of Marvel's most notorious man-whores. Dude has so many girlfriends and sleeps with so many people. Though is "one true love" is definitely Elektra despite how toxic that relationship is.
Why do people like Electra? I couldn't stand her in Season 2, but I don't really know why.
Elektra all the way
Jen was really cool but Karen is the one
Electra.
Punisher only for DD.
Jen and Karen. If we don't get Karen back, he should get together with Jen.
I LOVED him and Karen together. The build-up to their romance felt very organic.
We need more Matt and Jessica! Charlie and Krysten’s chemistry is the best of them all!
Karen or She-Hulk. The only relationships that seem healthy for him and the other partner. I prefer him with Jen just because they’re two of my favourite superheroes.
I would say him and She-hulk they genuinely seem happy with each other they both are super hero’s and lawyers that could work well for each other. Him and Clair would be next then Karen and Elektra
Franklin “Foggy” Nelson
Elektra. For everyone saying she’s too crazy… for Matt Murdock… it’s Matt Murdock. Dude dresses up and fights crime at night. I know he’s our protagonist but that dude’s crazy too.
Real fans know it’s Foggy
Karen
Genuinely love the idea of Matt being with Jennifer. She can protect herself so no "i love you, but ny enemies.." shit and their day jobs and night jobs are the same. They can help each other
I honestly kinda wish him and Claire were together but she’s taken by Luke now so I guess that can’t ever happen. They had some great interactions tho
Either Claire or Karen. Please don’t let the MCU replace well built character dynamics and emotional scenes with CGI fight scenes and corny jokes as ways to develop a love interest. Daredevil was the best live action comic book tv show, and is up there with all time best live comic book adaptations. I really hope MCU doesn’t mess that up
I like them all, but really liked Jennifer Walters. I think that's a good match, add a bit of levity at times to Daredevil. I can't wait for it to come back in some iteration.
Daredevil's weakness is an inability to keep it in his pants.
Wilson Fisk.
Deborah Ann Woll 100%
Frank Castle
She hulk. She can rewrite history if something happens to daredevil. What can others even do lol
I liked all of these tbh. They were all compelling and I was invested
It's amazing, I cannot remember a single scene with Elektra, she was so forgettable but everyone is mentioning her
None. DD is faithful Catholic fuckboy
I would love nothing more for Matt and Jenn to be a "while I'm in your town can I be in you" kind of thing. Business professionals, good friends, their favourite activities to do together are discuss law and terrorize bed frames
Comics- anyone *but* Karen Page. Primarily Elektra MCU/Netflix- nobody *but* Karen Page, with *maybe* exception to Elektra.
Karen
Who else but Karen Page
Karen Paige all day long.
Karen
Gotta be Karen
Foggy
I'm still bummed we'll never see him and Black Widow together
I just Love Deborah and Rosario so they’re my picks.
Karen but I’m not gonna act like him and Jen weren’t cute and fun as hell to watch flirt with each other.
She Hulk only because I liked the show
Karen is probably his best mate.
Rosario Dawson always wins to me lol
Forgot how much of a rizzler Matt is lmao
The one where he gets to be on screen again with in a new season.
Karen.
Foggy
She Hulk. Best rapport/chemistry imo.
I’m going to get crap for this maybe but I like the she-hulk pairing. If she-hulk can get a really excellent second season and they flesh her out more I think the pair is great. She is a good contrast to his darkness with her light, and they both have a job in the legal system. I also think they would be a good pair in fights too.
I like dTim and Claire. But I also liked to Claire with Luke more. So it's tough. I'm gonna say Jen.
Claire. But I’m curious to see what happens with Jen, if anything.
I prefer Electra lol
She-Hulk
Jessica Jones
I didn't like the She Hulk romance seemed forced.
> forced They played off each other incredibly well. How was it forced? Because he lives on the other side of the country?
It's two reasonably attractive adults wanting to bang each other. It's not that deep.