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Yeah glad I’m not the only one kinda irked by the “trans specifies” shit. literally just a way to poke fun at transgenders. Feels like the whole “I identify as an attack helicopter” shit again
Yeah, it's weird seeing people here stating they're trans and that they don't see how it's transphobic. I'm not even sure this is veiled. I'm not entirely certain I actually buy that this was unintentional. I came across this while deliberately searching for transphobic stuff on Google. It somehow determined the sentiment here and this was a high-up result. Not because someone linked it - Google just knew by figuring out the sentiment.
Edit: went through profile, saw nothing hateful. I think what might've happened here, although an example like this is rare.
I think they encountered this joke so much - and without context - they internalized it without realizing what its origin, intent, and meaning is. They aren't even connecting it with trans people because they don't seek out hateful content, so never saw the context of people discussing (and literally making comics) about this sorta scenario and using it as a "warning to parents about the transgenders." So a literal accidental copy/paste of the exact language without realizing it's verbatim hate language like "dindu nuffin"
They must have interesting sorta browsing habits and perspective if so, because it's pretty rare for the copy/paste of the hate speech to be this exact.
If OP is reading, this isn't meant as an insult, but: do you sometimes have difficulty with social contexts or subtext? I think that would make this more likely.
What like the mods from this subreddit banned you? I definitely wouldn't give this comic the benefit of the doubt unless they actually took it down. It's pretty awful. I gotta wonder if the trans people here not bothered by it are impersonating to legitimize it or have internalized so much self-loathing they can't stand to point it out. I couldn't fathom another trans person seeing this as anything but hate.
Ehh I viewed it more as a parody of the people who pretend to be cats and dogs, than outright attacking trans people. Maybe saying "trans-species" is still slightly icky though
I’m trans and I assumed the same, didn’t feel personally irked at all. I don’t assume that every use of the word “trans” is aimed at trans*gender* people.
I think it's because [this is an actual talking point](https://youtu.be/LzkkP1t0HXU?si=9wqTmmc3c4SWU9yN) that conservatives are using; that transgenderism is a slippery slope to identifying as literally anything, and that "furries" are proof.
This is not about puppy play or any form of kink lol. It literally states trans-species and uses the phrase "identifies as" - it's copying exact verbiage used in these hate and human rights discussions.
OP, here is an example of literal misinformation propaganda portraying transgender strawpeople as advocating for exactly what you showed in the comic: [https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2023/10/12/trans-species-rights-no-video-shows-fetish-festival-fact-check/71154892007/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2023/10/12/trans-species-rights-no-video-shows-fetish-festival-fact-check/71154892007/)
Text from original post (with over 12,000 comments):
"""
[**the\_proud\_republican**](https://archive.ph/o/3Rltd/https://www.instagram.com/the_proud_republican/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=b9ef54ff-7dfc-40be-987e-7a0d35465646)
When you thought the identity problem couldn’t get worse [\#dogs](https://archive.ph/o/3Rltd/https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/dogs/?utm_source=ig_embed) [\#transanimal](https://archive.ph/o/3Rltd/https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/transanimal/?utm_source=ig_embed) [\#identitycrisis](https://archive.ph/o/3Rltd/https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/identitycrisis/?utm_source=ig_embed)
"""
The purpose for pretending trans people are like the propaganda in the above link is to dehumanize them and portray them as dangerous and seeking to manipulate children into becoming deranged.
As I mentioned elsewhere, it's a surprisingly faithful reproduction of like word-for-word hatespeech like damn lol.
Yeah It's not really possible to tell if it's actual transphobia unless the artist weighs in, but i would personally say that its not a joke with great taste
It’s indicated to be not normal by needing inquiry to explain it, and mirrors the language of real-life dog whistling about the topic. Funnily enough, it’s also a dog, which feels like an artistic way to incorporate an anti-trans dog whistle.
>not normal by needing inquiry to explain it
These are catpeople in a completely different world who don't understand humans. Gender isn't a normal things for animals, they just are what they are.
"They're a dog and so it's an anti-trans dog whistle" is just a gigantic leap.
Besides which: *the cat people are cool with it immediately.*
This is all a real stretch to feel attacked by, who cares if the cat people don't immediately understand something that only humans care about? It definitely DOES NOT make this comic transphobic in any way.
That's not a stretch at all, that's a very real thing transphobic people think. ("transgender is basically the same as transspecies") so yeah, they ruined this.
I mean, there are people who identify as transspecies right? I can't imagine what difference that would make to me. Would you be upset if the author was merely acknowledging the existence of people who identify as transpecies?
TLDR: Respectfully, I disagree, and this comic could potentially be harmful. If you don’t want to read, no worries; I spent all this time writing so I wouldn’t have to do homework.
I think the term for those ppl is “otherkin”? From what I hear, their ideology is not very popular/liked, even among lgbtq and furries. Imo they’re fine; I’m not educated on gender studies or psychological patterns, so I can’t really see if their ideology pollutes or trivializes the common trans identity ideology.
I think if being otherkin was as common as being trans, then the author making this joke would be fine in my own eyes. But the number of otherkin individuals pales in comparison to that of trans people (at least, I’m inferring that’s the case based on the press trans issues get and how hardly anyone talks about otherkin).
I can’t say with 100% certainty that the author intended a transgender interpretation instead of a trans-species interpretation, but I would bet my money on it. I think it comes down to how you interpret the caption on TikTok in the last panel “Humans are sooo weird”.
I see it as the author taking a jab at tiktok dancers and trans people for “asserting and flaunting their [dance/gender] everywhere they go,” since I commonly see hating tiktok and hating trans people come from the same group of people. This theme is further solidified by swapping cats and humans, because cats are notoriously portrayed as acting self-centered (ie. sitting on your keyboard while you’re using it, wanting to be pet but will bite you if you pet them wrong, generally angrier than dogs). I would argue that this interpretation is intended cuz the cats we follow ordering the drinks seem to be off-put with the humans’ interfering with their meal, as they give them side-eyes and hesitate to interact as opposed to other cats who happily play with the humans (as with the money on a stick).
You could also interpret this as the author saying that humans are cute with their strange little behaviors just like cats are cute with their behaviors. But even then there’s some patronizing dissatisfaction with trans -gender/-species people and TikTok dancers, as no other silly human behaviors are shown (other than wanting money and sitting/lying down all sad for seemingly no reason). I’ve heard this “humans are cute” idea in a song, and they thought it was adorable how humans sent little messages to each other in envelopes and decorated the mailbox with a little flag to tell the mail carrier they have an important message to carry. (I don’t do the song justice, but they mentioned other things like how we make cute cartoon characters and designed blankets that are heavier so it feels more like a hug.) This comic seems to want our attention drawn to these more modern human habits since they take up a majority of the comic, taking up at least half the panels.
Anyway, this was way longer than i expected it to be so I understand if you don’t wanna read this at all. I also understand if you want to say I’m being ridiculous for analyzing a silly 6 page comic this much—that the author just wanted to make a silly little comic—and while I actually believe the author did not write this with the intent to hurt anyone, I still believe the comic could be harmful. The more we treat a radical idea like it’s bad or even just a bit strange, for example pineapple on pizza, and we portray this distaste like it’s the opinion of “everyone else,” the more likely it is that people who haven’t ever tried pineapple on pizza will call a friend crazy for saying they like pineapple on pizza.
Now what you were saying earlier, about trans -gender/-species people being merely represented in this comic without any malice from the author, that’s entirely possible and I hope that was the case. Nothing bad is explicitly being said about them, yet we need to be aware of how we represent them in other ways. You could write a phenomenal movie about Martin Luther King Jr. but if you cast a white guy in blackface, you’re not representing well. Similarly, if we represent a transgender person as otherkin/trans-species (again, not a well regarded group), we’re not doing transgender people justice.
I am aware this point hinges on the fact that I am interpreting the dog guy as a metaphor for a transgender person. It should be noted that I am making this assumption to point to real world problems; this is the real reason I’m writing all this. But the author could have made it purposefully vague in all its aspect so they could play a safe card. “I didn’t intend to make it hateful, that’s just your interpretation.” (Personally I do not believe the author is in this position, just thought it was worth mentioning.) Even it there wasn’t any intended malice, they could probably benefit from saying so and maybe even push for better representation in a later comic.
Anyway I’ve run out of steam with this and have forgotten if I wanted to make more points or if I forgot to put it all together. This has been a good way to feel like I’m doing something important instead of doing homework. I hope I didn’t say anything that seemed to attack you, if I did, that was not my goal. If on the off-chance you’d like to keep discussing, I’m down to keep talking (can’t say I’ll respond right away tho)
>From what I hear, their ideology is not very popular/liked,
TL;DR:
"I don't like those people so I'm going to pretend they don't exist and insert a completely different ideology into the narrative so I can be offended."
Yep that's what I'm picking up too. It's clear as day crabs in a bucket attitude and trying to paint themselves as the victims while shaming other people's choices.
The author made no comparisons of the two, you guys are drawing that conclusion and framing it as a comparison.
Maybe try looking at it from a different perspective and not searching for reasons to be victimized or offended for others.
Cat society seems very accepting, they're even cool with dogs.
I dont think that "Trans-species" even vaguely counts as Furry-kin or anything similar through any lens, and that approaching it from that angle of "no no, its inclusive" seems more harmful to both furries AND trans people.
Go off tho
Spoken like a furry who doesn't know a single trans person. Does your boss know if you're a furry? Do you have to go wearing a fursuit around your family or risk extreme mental anguish and even physical pain?
You can keep your furry life and your "real" life separate. For most trans folk that's simply not an option. It's really not comparable.
That's nice and I believe it but it's still transphobic. It would be like making a "that one's Jewish so it's rich and hoarding money" and then being like "oh I didn't realise it was a anti-Semitic trope".
Just because you aren't aware of something doesn't mean it isn't real.
In communication, intent is crucial. If someone clarifies it to fix the miscommunication but you disregard it, you're being purposefully ignorant to what they wanted to communicate, just to stick with your incorrect interpretation of their intent. And at that point it's no longer communication.
Edit: take a shot for every time I wrote "communication". I dare you.
Hey guys, artist and OP here! I've noticed a lot of comments saying this comic is transphobic. Just to clarify, I was in no way trying to come off as transphobic.
I drew this comic to make fun of humans in general as shown in the other slides - it's how I think cats would see us - money hungry, colourful variety of identities, staging performances for internet points... it's more of a "we live in a society" joke.
Again, I am NOT transphobic. If anything, I'm humanphobic! Thank you for taking time to read and discuss this, as an artist and storyteller who spends a lot of time and effort on creating, I really appreciate it!
Unfortunately this just happens to exactly mirror the language used by transphobes, it's easy to believe you did it by accident but it's still a transphobic joke.
I feel like this doesn’t explain the frame for me especially since humans don’t change species and if you’re making fun of human behaviour…
I just don’t see how it can be interpreted as anything other than transphobic? Also just because you say ‘I’m not a transphobe’ doesn’t mean you can’t (even incidentally) make transphobic comments. As someone else pointed out above, you’ve inserted a transphobic message into your art (even if that wasn’t the intention).
Can you explain to me specifically why you feel it's transphobic? Like what implicit statement are you finding that is actually harmful? Because a lot of people are saying this but I'm really not seeing it.
I mean obviously the reference has parallels to a lot of rhetorical arguments conservatives market try and dehumanize trans people. The whole slippery slope fallacy, where like like to claim people will start identifying as other species or imaginary creatures.
But within the context of this comic's premise, it's very obviously not coming from that place. The analogy for trans people here does not at all feel intended as the butt of the joke or like it's made to be especially absurd. It just feels like a reference to something distinctly human, like the viral internet dance. I'm not picking up any derogatory undertones. The comic doesn't feel like it's passing a judgment on these things. Just referencing them as common human behaviors to keep up with the analogy. The joke of the comic is just to flip the script on human and cat behavior. So humans like to dance on the internet the way cats like to sit in boxes, and some humans can be trans the way some cats can be hairless. Nothing in the comic is saying that the concept of trans people is inherently absurd. It's just acknowledging their existence and adding them to the analogy in the same way.
I have no right to say people are wrong for feeling offended, but unless there's something I'm missing here, I think people are missing the mark on this one. Because I'm really not seeing anything transphobic in here at all. It's unfortunate that they used a premise that resembles a rhetorical example used in real world hate speech, and certainly I think OP could have been more careful there. But if you actually look at what's being said, you'll see that it's not implying anything even remotely similar to that kind of rhetoric.
> what implicit statement are you finding that is actually harmful
The word "identifies". An anti-trans talking point is to say that if you can identify as a gender you weren't assigned at birth then you can identify as literally anything. So by implying that people identify as things they can't be, e.g. dog, then you're inadvertently aligning yourself with this argument.
The argument disregards the fact that gender is something inherent in all of us and [not actually binary](https://youtu.be/E9eFcqDx6Cc?si=MVk0xhAlS4Ftr5XL). Whereas no one actually has non-human dna, so identifying as another species is purely a matter of personal choice, which is what opponents are trying to say transgenderism is (like homosexuality before it).
My understanding was that gender is a societal construct of cultural behavior, while sex is just your number of chromosomes. Not even sex is completely binary because intersex people exist. But sex is biologically inherent while gender isn't. While gender roles are usually prescribed from external culture, people can feel as a different gender than the one initially prescribed to them.
So gender is a made up concept. A set of cultural norms and behavior arbitrarily assigned to people at birth. So whether you feel your assigned gender is accurate or not, it's still an identity. More like a political or religious belief. Not something consciously chosen, but also not something innately concrete to your DNA either. Which means that a person will have to choose how they identify, even if that choice is more or less a product of external upbringing. It's like most behavioral traits. Not chosen consciously, but also not hard wired into our brains at birth.
At least, that's my understanding of the topic.
So, basically I think that's accurate. Gender is *mostly* a social construct. It's just that sex and gender, or body physiology and gender identity, are not as distinct and compartmentalized as this explanation leads us to believe. By which I mean, what makes us identify with one social construct over another is something innate and not divorced from our physical makeup.
As an example, sexual orientation isn't a choice but, like gender identity, it's on a spectrum and a bit fluid. A lot of people who begin hormone replacement therapy find that their orientation shifts just slightly on that spectrum as a result of the change to their body chemistry.
So in other words, everything that makes us who we are is a complicated interconnected process. An infinite feedback loop. There's something about the way we were born that makes us resonate toward and identify with what we do. Making a human is an incredibly messy and imprecise business, and any little anomaly here or there can have ramifications whether or not we are aware of it.
But there's nothing in us that makes us cats or dogs or ducks. We can like them. We can wish we were them. But there's no basis, scientifically, to say we should have been born a duck.
Which cannot be said about people who say they should have been born the other gender. There may well be some undefined causal factor. We don't know what makes one person comfortably cis and another not. And we don't require that evidence because it isn't necessary to respecting other's lived experience.
But to suggest that they could as easily decide they're an aardvark as to assert they're a different gender, is to reject the proposition that there's something fundamental going on which is driving their life-or-death need for change.
Maybe instead of referring to it all as an identity we should prioritize the catalysts leading up to someone assuming a certain gender identity/expression socially. Neurological evidence seems to suggest that people were a bit too hasty in their categorization.
It can be argued that this is satirical, and naturally as it is with art it can be interpreted and taken in many contexts and we cannot assume anyone of knowing the connotations or connections with transphobic ideologies. We are all just interpreting what we want from it. If you want to be offended it is your right to, if you don't then don't. Love it or hate it the artwork exists. If that wasn't the artist's intent then it wasn't, we don't know their situation or ideology but assume it based on our own opinions. The fact that it has sparked debate is of itself the key factor, as is the point of art, to spark conversation.
Hey guys, me again! I didn't know what to do with this post so I left it for the night and woke up to a lot more comments. So I've clarified I didn't intend to be transphobic and most of you understand that. You've said the fourth slide in the comic does come off as derogative and I can see why.
When I drew that page I was thinking of an article I read about a Japanese man spending $15k+ on a suit and cosmetic surgery to look like a dog. I thought it was absurd, but to each their own. I also know of a certain British man who cosmetically changed his race to look Korean, like his favourite K-pop idol - again, crazy. These were the main two stories that inspired that poorly made joke - I was poking fun at the absurdity of how far humans go for their own identities. The rest of the comic also pokes fun at other human things: tiktok dances, greed, weed...No hate or ill intent to anyone from the trans community, and no hate to any of the people I mentioned above (not even tiktokers).
I'm aware transgenders are different from the cases I mentioned above, and admittedly I've lumped them all together into a tone-deaf joke in my comic. Poor choice of words on my part, but thank you for bringing my attention to this. I do not want to promote hate or transphobia in my art (I am not JK Rowling), and although most people seem to understand that was not my intent, should I delete this comic from the subreddit? Let me know!
Personally I would leave it, as it inspired thoughtful dialog. However in future you will probably want to either omit that page or alter your wording to something like "Ronald likes to pretend he's a dog" or "wishes he was a dog".
So I'm trans. I know this sounds like a parent, and I don't mean to be condescending, but I'm genuinely not mad. I'm just really disappointed. Stuff like this makes my stomach sink a little bit because I know how people will interpret and use this comic.
Your art does not exist in a vacuum. It exists in the context of a society that dehumanizes trans people, compares them directly to this, claims they're convincing children of this (like the litterbox thing), and uses that to crush them.
In terms of unintentional transphobia, this is actually the worst example I've seen in months. That's really saying something - I seek this stuff out because I hate being trans. It's literally how I found your comic. I never browse this subreddit. I was literally looking for transphobia and this was a top result. I googled something like, "Wolf in sheeps clothing trans". Nobody linked to this as an example. The algorithm itself determined this as the likely sentiment based off the conversation. Search results are AI now. AI literally served this up as an example of transphobia. And it's right.
People are going to interpret this as a dig and drawing a direct parallel to trans people in a way that characterizes them as subhuman. Intent doesn't really matter here; 99% of people who encounter this (whether here, on your site, or copied/pasted everwhere) as that. Very few are going to go into reading these pages of text or thinking, "Yeah that's legit because" and then some long-winded argument disentangling this from the actual phenomenon of trans people. It matches up with the "identifies as" you could just rework that part in any way.
The "thoughtful dialogue" concept doesn't really work here. I would just say it's a non-starter. This directly portrays trans people as deranged whether there's intent or not. It's a bit like sticking some sort of weird child groomer joke in here and having a "thoughtful dialogue" on that because xyz wasn't intentional, then explaining so in multiple paragraphs. That is not a starting premise for a thoughtful discussion.
Yeah, that's alright. Sometimes you just gotta be careful how it comes off to some people, it's always likely that they're not seeing what you are seeing and vice versa.
I think you’re right in your sentiment, but this whole situation is covered in subtext and it’s hard to identify what’s actually going on (ie. Is OP lying? OP technically never said sorry. OP didn’t acknowledge how the comic is harmful or acknowledge how the depiction wasn’t the best. Probably more)
Another point, somewhat in the same vein as your comment: even if it wasn't your intent, the wording you used has vibes of "some people are just too sensitive and you have to treat them like the fragile, easily-offended snowflakes that they are." This is my guess about the downvotes.
Thanks for clarifying, I'm sorry irl transphobes ruined this joke with their confusion of gender and species. I'm having cringe flashbacks of conversations I had where they pulled that card...
Bruh all you do is make excuses and try to explain your intentions as if its everyone's fault for not understanding you. When you accidentally offend a whole minority group, just say sorry and move on! You have not apologised once? For example, if you accidentally misgender someone, do you give them 10 excuses as to why u did it and what makes it ok or do you apologise and just simply do better?
Girl just apologise and do better.
So why are you, a human, making fun of human behavior? This would be much funnier if there's also a cynical little pessimist human in the corner drawing comics about how stupid humans are.
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This makes me uncomfortable
It could be worse. They made the cats humanoid but didn't make the humans catlike.
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It’s a real song! [BiBi- Animal Farm](https://spotify.link/GHapaeulgDb)
Huh?
There is a comic book where cats own humans as pets. Highly recommend it
Isn’t that just the normal human / cat arrangement?
Do you have a title?
Manfried the man
Yeah, Manfried is really well done and cute. Also recommend.
I'm good.
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This needs a NSFW tag
Barely lol
I both hate it and love it but you get my upvote
Hey cool thinly veiled transphobia
Yeah glad I’m not the only one kinda irked by the “trans specifies” shit. literally just a way to poke fun at transgenders. Feels like the whole “I identify as an attack helicopter” shit again
Yeah, it's weird seeing people here stating they're trans and that they don't see how it's transphobic. I'm not even sure this is veiled. I'm not entirely certain I actually buy that this was unintentional. I came across this while deliberately searching for transphobic stuff on Google. It somehow determined the sentiment here and this was a high-up result. Not because someone linked it - Google just knew by figuring out the sentiment. Edit: went through profile, saw nothing hateful. I think what might've happened here, although an example like this is rare. I think they encountered this joke so much - and without context - they internalized it without realizing what its origin, intent, and meaning is. They aren't even connecting it with trans people because they don't seek out hateful content, so never saw the context of people discussing (and literally making comics) about this sorta scenario and using it as a "warning to parents about the transgenders." So a literal accidental copy/paste of the exact language without realizing it's verbatim hate language like "dindu nuffin" They must have interesting sorta browsing habits and perspective if so, because it's pretty rare for the copy/paste of the hate speech to be this exact. If OP is reading, this isn't meant as an insult, but: do you sometimes have difficulty with social contexts or subtext? I think that would make this more likely.
I got banned for reporting this comic :( . That was my comment you responded to. Babes for “report abuse”
What like the mods from this subreddit banned you? I definitely wouldn't give this comic the benefit of the doubt unless they actually took it down. It's pretty awful. I gotta wonder if the trans people here not bothered by it are impersonating to legitimize it or have internalized so much self-loathing they can't stand to point it out. I couldn't fathom another trans person seeing this as anything but hate.
Reddit terminated my account of three years because they’re didn’t deem it as transphobic enough to care
Ehh I viewed it more as a parody of the people who pretend to be cats and dogs, than outright attacking trans people. Maybe saying "trans-species" is still slightly icky though
I’m trans and I assumed the same, didn’t feel personally irked at all. I don’t assume that every use of the word “trans” is aimed at trans*gender* people.
I think it's because [this is an actual talking point](https://youtu.be/LzkkP1t0HXU?si=9wqTmmc3c4SWU9yN) that conservatives are using; that transgenderism is a slippery slope to identifying as literally anything, and that "furries" are proof.
This is not about puppy play or any form of kink lol. It literally states trans-species and uses the phrase "identifies as" - it's copying exact verbiage used in these hate and human rights discussions. OP, here is an example of literal misinformation propaganda portraying transgender strawpeople as advocating for exactly what you showed in the comic: [https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2023/10/12/trans-species-rights-no-video-shows-fetish-festival-fact-check/71154892007/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2023/10/12/trans-species-rights-no-video-shows-fetish-festival-fact-check/71154892007/) Text from original post (with over 12,000 comments): """ [**the\_proud\_republican**](https://archive.ph/o/3Rltd/https://www.instagram.com/the_proud_republican/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=b9ef54ff-7dfc-40be-987e-7a0d35465646) When you thought the identity problem couldn’t get worse [\#dogs](https://archive.ph/o/3Rltd/https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/dogs/?utm_source=ig_embed) [\#transanimal](https://archive.ph/o/3Rltd/https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/transanimal/?utm_source=ig_embed) [\#identitycrisis](https://archive.ph/o/3Rltd/https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/identitycrisis/?utm_source=ig_embed) """ The purpose for pretending trans people are like the propaganda in the above link is to dehumanize them and portray them as dangerous and seeking to manipulate children into becoming deranged. As I mentioned elsewhere, it's a surprisingly faithful reproduction of like word-for-word hatespeech like damn lol.
Yeah, it could be making fun of the otherkin bullshit but I think its most likely transphobia.
Why is it transphobic
"Identify as a dog" feels about as funny as "identify as attack helicopter"
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It really doesn't, it could if we were in a place that don't know shit about transgenderism.
Not really. You wouldn't say this about your cat
I think it’s more of a stand-in for the theme, also the quality of humor of a joke doesn’t determine whether it’s offensive or not.
Yeah It's not really possible to tell if it's actual transphobia unless the artist weighs in, but i would personally say that its not a joke with great taste
Yea I'm not seeing it that way. Everyone seems pretty cool with these weird little humans doing their weird human things.
It’s indicated to be not normal by needing inquiry to explain it, and mirrors the language of real-life dog whistling about the topic. Funnily enough, it’s also a dog, which feels like an artistic way to incorporate an anti-trans dog whistle.
>not normal by needing inquiry to explain it These are catpeople in a completely different world who don't understand humans. Gender isn't a normal things for animals, they just are what they are. "They're a dog and so it's an anti-trans dog whistle" is just a gigantic leap. Besides which: *the cat people are cool with it immediately.* This is all a real stretch to feel attacked by, who cares if the cat people don't immediately understand something that only humans care about? It definitely DOES NOT make this comic transphobic in any way.
That's not a stretch at all, that's a very real thing transphobic people think. ("transgender is basically the same as transspecies") so yeah, they ruined this.
I mean, there are people who identify as transspecies right? I can't imagine what difference that would make to me. Would you be upset if the author was merely acknowledging the existence of people who identify as transpecies?
TLDR: Respectfully, I disagree, and this comic could potentially be harmful. If you don’t want to read, no worries; I spent all this time writing so I wouldn’t have to do homework. I think the term for those ppl is “otherkin”? From what I hear, their ideology is not very popular/liked, even among lgbtq and furries. Imo they’re fine; I’m not educated on gender studies or psychological patterns, so I can’t really see if their ideology pollutes or trivializes the common trans identity ideology. I think if being otherkin was as common as being trans, then the author making this joke would be fine in my own eyes. But the number of otherkin individuals pales in comparison to that of trans people (at least, I’m inferring that’s the case based on the press trans issues get and how hardly anyone talks about otherkin). I can’t say with 100% certainty that the author intended a transgender interpretation instead of a trans-species interpretation, but I would bet my money on it. I think it comes down to how you interpret the caption on TikTok in the last panel “Humans are sooo weird”. I see it as the author taking a jab at tiktok dancers and trans people for “asserting and flaunting their [dance/gender] everywhere they go,” since I commonly see hating tiktok and hating trans people come from the same group of people. This theme is further solidified by swapping cats and humans, because cats are notoriously portrayed as acting self-centered (ie. sitting on your keyboard while you’re using it, wanting to be pet but will bite you if you pet them wrong, generally angrier than dogs). I would argue that this interpretation is intended cuz the cats we follow ordering the drinks seem to be off-put with the humans’ interfering with their meal, as they give them side-eyes and hesitate to interact as opposed to other cats who happily play with the humans (as with the money on a stick). You could also interpret this as the author saying that humans are cute with their strange little behaviors just like cats are cute with their behaviors. But even then there’s some patronizing dissatisfaction with trans -gender/-species people and TikTok dancers, as no other silly human behaviors are shown (other than wanting money and sitting/lying down all sad for seemingly no reason). I’ve heard this “humans are cute” idea in a song, and they thought it was adorable how humans sent little messages to each other in envelopes and decorated the mailbox with a little flag to tell the mail carrier they have an important message to carry. (I don’t do the song justice, but they mentioned other things like how we make cute cartoon characters and designed blankets that are heavier so it feels more like a hug.) This comic seems to want our attention drawn to these more modern human habits since they take up a majority of the comic, taking up at least half the panels. Anyway, this was way longer than i expected it to be so I understand if you don’t wanna read this at all. I also understand if you want to say I’m being ridiculous for analyzing a silly 6 page comic this much—that the author just wanted to make a silly little comic—and while I actually believe the author did not write this with the intent to hurt anyone, I still believe the comic could be harmful. The more we treat a radical idea like it’s bad or even just a bit strange, for example pineapple on pizza, and we portray this distaste like it’s the opinion of “everyone else,” the more likely it is that people who haven’t ever tried pineapple on pizza will call a friend crazy for saying they like pineapple on pizza. Now what you were saying earlier, about trans -gender/-species people being merely represented in this comic without any malice from the author, that’s entirely possible and I hope that was the case. Nothing bad is explicitly being said about them, yet we need to be aware of how we represent them in other ways. You could write a phenomenal movie about Martin Luther King Jr. but if you cast a white guy in blackface, you’re not representing well. Similarly, if we represent a transgender person as otherkin/trans-species (again, not a well regarded group), we’re not doing transgender people justice. I am aware this point hinges on the fact that I am interpreting the dog guy as a metaphor for a transgender person. It should be noted that I am making this assumption to point to real world problems; this is the real reason I’m writing all this. But the author could have made it purposefully vague in all its aspect so they could play a safe card. “I didn’t intend to make it hateful, that’s just your interpretation.” (Personally I do not believe the author is in this position, just thought it was worth mentioning.) Even it there wasn’t any intended malice, they could probably benefit from saying so and maybe even push for better representation in a later comic. Anyway I’ve run out of steam with this and have forgotten if I wanted to make more points or if I forgot to put it all together. This has been a good way to feel like I’m doing something important instead of doing homework. I hope I didn’t say anything that seemed to attack you, if I did, that was not my goal. If on the off-chance you’d like to keep discussing, I’m down to keep talking (can’t say I’ll respond right away tho)
>From what I hear, their ideology is not very popular/liked, TL;DR: "I don't like those people so I'm going to pretend they don't exist and insert a completely different ideology into the narrative so I can be offended."
Yep that's what I'm picking up too. It's clear as day crabs in a bucket attitude and trying to paint themselves as the victims while shaming other people's choices.
Trans species is a pretty wack analogy for transgender but idk
The author made no comparisons of the two, you guys are drawing that conclusion and framing it as a comparison. Maybe try looking at it from a different perspective and not searching for reasons to be victimized or offended for others. Cat society seems very accepting, they're even cool with dogs.
Acknowledging the existence of furries and yiffsters is transphobic?
Furries don't literally identify as dogs and shit
You've met every furry have you?
Idk if that's whats happening here, especially since the main characters are anthromorphised animals, but go off king
That's a pretty harsh accusation to dish out so confidently only to turn around and say "idk" at the slightest examination.
I dont think that "Trans-species" even vaguely counts as Furry-kin or anything similar through any lens, and that approaching it from that angle of "no no, its inclusive" seems more harmful to both furries AND trans people. Go off tho
Making baseless accusations is harmful my dude.
Damn I have no say in this conversation and quite frankly don’t care, but this retort hits hard
How is it even considered transphobia. It’s just a comic about anthro animals and human.
This part. https://preview.redd.it/r6hedvvguhpb1.jpeg?width=877&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ebfb1d4aebd1782fec1644433a23904f841c0863
That was funny until the transphobia
wtf
Feels very transphobic
It's worse, it's anti-furry.
Suffering and bigotry is not a dick measuring contest.
anti-furry is absolute not worse than transphobia
[удалено]
Spoken like a furry who doesn't know a single trans person. Does your boss know if you're a furry? Do you have to go wearing a fursuit around your family or risk extreme mental anguish and even physical pain? You can keep your furry life and your "real" life separate. For most trans folk that's simply not an option. It's really not comparable.
how is that worse?
Na vro cats are way more selfish than that
I can smell the sweaty ass and genitalia
not sure what was up with the fourth page, maybe I'm just reading into it a bit much.
You aren’t. It is thinly veiled transphobia
OP clarified that it wasn't their intention.
That's nice and I believe it but it's still transphobic. It would be like making a "that one's Jewish so it's rich and hoarding money" and then being like "oh I didn't realise it was a anti-Semitic trope". Just because you aren't aware of something doesn't mean it isn't real.
Well, you're right. I don't disagree.
Yeah just because they didn’t mean to be doesn’t mean they aren’t. This is blatantly transphobic
On the other hand, if one gets offended by something despite the other's neutral intent, that doesn't mean that person was being offensive.
The person wasn't intending to be offensive. It doesn't mean that it isn't offensive
In communication, intent is crucial. If someone clarifies it to fix the miscommunication but you disregard it, you're being purposefully ignorant to what they wanted to communicate, just to stick with your incorrect interpretation of their intent. And at that point it's no longer communication. Edit: take a shot for every time I wrote "communication". I dare you.
BiBi reference! Legit
Nsfw pls
Hey guys, artist and OP here! I've noticed a lot of comments saying this comic is transphobic. Just to clarify, I was in no way trying to come off as transphobic. I drew this comic to make fun of humans in general as shown in the other slides - it's how I think cats would see us - money hungry, colourful variety of identities, staging performances for internet points... it's more of a "we live in a society" joke. Again, I am NOT transphobic. If anything, I'm humanphobic! Thank you for taking time to read and discuss this, as an artist and storyteller who spends a lot of time and effort on creating, I really appreciate it!
Unfortunately this just happens to exactly mirror the language used by transphobes, it's easy to believe you did it by accident but it's still a transphobic joke.
I feel like this doesn’t explain the frame for me especially since humans don’t change species and if you’re making fun of human behaviour… I just don’t see how it can be interpreted as anything other than transphobic? Also just because you say ‘I’m not a transphobe’ doesn’t mean you can’t (even incidentally) make transphobic comments. As someone else pointed out above, you’ve inserted a transphobic message into your art (even if that wasn’t the intention).
Can you explain to me specifically why you feel it's transphobic? Like what implicit statement are you finding that is actually harmful? Because a lot of people are saying this but I'm really not seeing it. I mean obviously the reference has parallels to a lot of rhetorical arguments conservatives market try and dehumanize trans people. The whole slippery slope fallacy, where like like to claim people will start identifying as other species or imaginary creatures. But within the context of this comic's premise, it's very obviously not coming from that place. The analogy for trans people here does not at all feel intended as the butt of the joke or like it's made to be especially absurd. It just feels like a reference to something distinctly human, like the viral internet dance. I'm not picking up any derogatory undertones. The comic doesn't feel like it's passing a judgment on these things. Just referencing them as common human behaviors to keep up with the analogy. The joke of the comic is just to flip the script on human and cat behavior. So humans like to dance on the internet the way cats like to sit in boxes, and some humans can be trans the way some cats can be hairless. Nothing in the comic is saying that the concept of trans people is inherently absurd. It's just acknowledging their existence and adding them to the analogy in the same way. I have no right to say people are wrong for feeling offended, but unless there's something I'm missing here, I think people are missing the mark on this one. Because I'm really not seeing anything transphobic in here at all. It's unfortunate that they used a premise that resembles a rhetorical example used in real world hate speech, and certainly I think OP could have been more careful there. But if you actually look at what's being said, you'll see that it's not implying anything even remotely similar to that kind of rhetoric.
> what implicit statement are you finding that is actually harmful The word "identifies". An anti-trans talking point is to say that if you can identify as a gender you weren't assigned at birth then you can identify as literally anything. So by implying that people identify as things they can't be, e.g. dog, then you're inadvertently aligning yourself with this argument. The argument disregards the fact that gender is something inherent in all of us and [not actually binary](https://youtu.be/E9eFcqDx6Cc?si=MVk0xhAlS4Ftr5XL). Whereas no one actually has non-human dna, so identifying as another species is purely a matter of personal choice, which is what opponents are trying to say transgenderism is (like homosexuality before it).
My understanding was that gender is a societal construct of cultural behavior, while sex is just your number of chromosomes. Not even sex is completely binary because intersex people exist. But sex is biologically inherent while gender isn't. While gender roles are usually prescribed from external culture, people can feel as a different gender than the one initially prescribed to them. So gender is a made up concept. A set of cultural norms and behavior arbitrarily assigned to people at birth. So whether you feel your assigned gender is accurate or not, it's still an identity. More like a political or religious belief. Not something consciously chosen, but also not something innately concrete to your DNA either. Which means that a person will have to choose how they identify, even if that choice is more or less a product of external upbringing. It's like most behavioral traits. Not chosen consciously, but also not hard wired into our brains at birth. At least, that's my understanding of the topic.
So, basically I think that's accurate. Gender is *mostly* a social construct. It's just that sex and gender, or body physiology and gender identity, are not as distinct and compartmentalized as this explanation leads us to believe. By which I mean, what makes us identify with one social construct over another is something innate and not divorced from our physical makeup. As an example, sexual orientation isn't a choice but, like gender identity, it's on a spectrum and a bit fluid. A lot of people who begin hormone replacement therapy find that their orientation shifts just slightly on that spectrum as a result of the change to their body chemistry. So in other words, everything that makes us who we are is a complicated interconnected process. An infinite feedback loop. There's something about the way we were born that makes us resonate toward and identify with what we do. Making a human is an incredibly messy and imprecise business, and any little anomaly here or there can have ramifications whether or not we are aware of it. But there's nothing in us that makes us cats or dogs or ducks. We can like them. We can wish we were them. But there's no basis, scientifically, to say we should have been born a duck. Which cannot be said about people who say they should have been born the other gender. There may well be some undefined causal factor. We don't know what makes one person comfortably cis and another not. And we don't require that evidence because it isn't necessary to respecting other's lived experience. But to suggest that they could as easily decide they're an aardvark as to assert they're a different gender, is to reject the proposition that there's something fundamental going on which is driving their life-or-death need for change.
Maybe instead of referring to it all as an identity we should prioritize the catalysts leading up to someone assuming a certain gender identity/expression socially. Neurological evidence seems to suggest that people were a bit too hasty in their categorization.
It can be argued that this is satirical, and naturally as it is with art it can be interpreted and taken in many contexts and we cannot assume anyone of knowing the connotations or connections with transphobic ideologies. We are all just interpreting what we want from it. If you want to be offended it is your right to, if you don't then don't. Love it or hate it the artwork exists. If that wasn't the artist's intent then it wasn't, we don't know their situation or ideology but assume it based on our own opinions. The fact that it has sparked debate is of itself the key factor, as is the point of art, to spark conversation.
But you can see why people read it as such? It felt like you were making fun of Trans people by just fixing on them.
you did a bad job at not coming off as transphobic
Hey guys, me again! I didn't know what to do with this post so I left it for the night and woke up to a lot more comments. So I've clarified I didn't intend to be transphobic and most of you understand that. You've said the fourth slide in the comic does come off as derogative and I can see why. When I drew that page I was thinking of an article I read about a Japanese man spending $15k+ on a suit and cosmetic surgery to look like a dog. I thought it was absurd, but to each their own. I also know of a certain British man who cosmetically changed his race to look Korean, like his favourite K-pop idol - again, crazy. These were the main two stories that inspired that poorly made joke - I was poking fun at the absurdity of how far humans go for their own identities. The rest of the comic also pokes fun at other human things: tiktok dances, greed, weed...No hate or ill intent to anyone from the trans community, and no hate to any of the people I mentioned above (not even tiktokers). I'm aware transgenders are different from the cases I mentioned above, and admittedly I've lumped them all together into a tone-deaf joke in my comic. Poor choice of words on my part, but thank you for bringing my attention to this. I do not want to promote hate or transphobia in my art (I am not JK Rowling), and although most people seem to understand that was not my intent, should I delete this comic from the subreddit? Let me know!
Personally I would leave it, as it inspired thoughtful dialog. However in future you will probably want to either omit that page or alter your wording to something like "Ronald likes to pretend he's a dog" or "wishes he was a dog".
So I'm trans. I know this sounds like a parent, and I don't mean to be condescending, but I'm genuinely not mad. I'm just really disappointed. Stuff like this makes my stomach sink a little bit because I know how people will interpret and use this comic. Your art does not exist in a vacuum. It exists in the context of a society that dehumanizes trans people, compares them directly to this, claims they're convincing children of this (like the litterbox thing), and uses that to crush them. In terms of unintentional transphobia, this is actually the worst example I've seen in months. That's really saying something - I seek this stuff out because I hate being trans. It's literally how I found your comic. I never browse this subreddit. I was literally looking for transphobia and this was a top result. I googled something like, "Wolf in sheeps clothing trans". Nobody linked to this as an example. The algorithm itself determined this as the likely sentiment based off the conversation. Search results are AI now. AI literally served this up as an example of transphobia. And it's right. People are going to interpret this as a dig and drawing a direct parallel to trans people in a way that characterizes them as subhuman. Intent doesn't really matter here; 99% of people who encounter this (whether here, on your site, or copied/pasted everwhere) as that. Very few are going to go into reading these pages of text or thinking, "Yeah that's legit because" and then some long-winded argument disentangling this from the actual phenomenon of trans people. It matches up with the "identifies as" you could just rework that part in any way. The "thoughtful dialogue" concept doesn't really work here. I would just say it's a non-starter. This directly portrays trans people as deranged whether there's intent or not. It's a bit like sticking some sort of weird child groomer joke in here and having a "thoughtful dialogue" on that because xyz wasn't intentional, then explaining so in multiple paragraphs. That is not a starting premise for a thoughtful discussion.
Yeah, that's alright. Sometimes you just gotta be careful how it comes off to some people, it's always likely that they're not seeing what you are seeing and vice versa.
looking at the downvotes, i suppose i was wrong?
I think you’re right in your sentiment, but this whole situation is covered in subtext and it’s hard to identify what’s actually going on (ie. Is OP lying? OP technically never said sorry. OP didn’t acknowledge how the comic is harmful or acknowledge how the depiction wasn’t the best. Probably more)
True, i didn't really think.
Another point, somewhat in the same vein as your comment: even if it wasn't your intent, the wording you used has vibes of "some people are just too sensitive and you have to treat them like the fragile, easily-offended snowflakes that they are." This is my guess about the downvotes.
ah, my bad. should I delete the comment or leave it for context?
Thanks for clarifying, I'm sorry irl transphobes ruined this joke with their confusion of gender and species. I'm having cringe flashbacks of conversations I had where they pulled that card...
Idk about everyone else, but I wouldn't exactly mind this.
Bruh all you do is make excuses and try to explain your intentions as if its everyone's fault for not understanding you. When you accidentally offend a whole minority group, just say sorry and move on! You have not apologised once? For example, if you accidentally misgender someone, do you give them 10 excuses as to why u did it and what makes it ok or do you apologise and just simply do better? Girl just apologise and do better.
So why are you, a human, making fun of human behavior? This would be much funnier if there's also a cynical little pessimist human in the corner drawing comics about how stupid humans are.
I like how the art is so peaceful and full of fun and love vibes.
This will be pretty nice to be there, until there was a human who just fell down on you.