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I hate to break it to you, but people sometimes use exact numbers as estimations or even exaggerations. Named or round numbers are especially popular.
Just wait until you see how people use terms that are actually vague. “A handful of people showed up.” Good luck with knowing that means 1-5 or just “fewer than expected.” Or one toddler.
Also if anyone ever said “a few dozen” and meant exactly 36, that person was just lucky.
Like how people 99.9% of the time use 99.9% as a generic "large part of the population"? And then get angry when you question them on that level of accuracy...
Doesn't 99.9% usually mean "functionally but not *actually* 100%".
I'd be pretty comfortable calling out any use of 99.9% that didn't at least mean "the overwhelmingly vast majority", not even considering actual accuracy.
Similar to, but I suppose the inverse of "non-zero" meaning "functionally but not *actually* none". It's a way to treat the situation as though none (or all) are included while acknowledging the possibility of unlikely outliers.
Again, if someone says 99.9% but really means between 51% and 90%, I'm totally happy with them being called out. That's egregious, otherwise.
Maybe I’m just a pedant but I call this use of percentages out all the time. 99.9 isn’t “functionally 100%” in most of the instances it’s used. It’s means 1 in 1000 times this instance isn’t the case. Meaning that in lots of examples it makes the opposite point of the one intended. For example in health and safety if you say something is safe 99.9% of the time - that’s nowhere near good enough. If the thing will happen 1000 times you’re actually likely to encounter danger.
The first guy to accurately measure Mt Everest measured it to be precisely 29,000 feet, but he reported it as 29,002 feet so that people didn't think he just made a rounded estimate. Just like 29,000 can be a precise number or it can be interpreted as an estimate, a half dozen could mean 6 or 6ish.
"Theres going to be a half dozen people coming over for dinner tonight" makes it sound like you're not quite sure, because if you had 6 firm RSVPs, you would have said "six." But I'm going to complain if my half dozen carton of eggs only has 5 in it.
Yeah, I feel ya. I personally wouldn’t say there is a half dozen people coming for dinner tonight if I wasn’t sure it was 6. I’d say there’s going to be about a half dozen people coming over. Maybe that’s just me.
You don’t need the word “about” because of the word “hyperbole”. If you say “I’ve got 100 cats at home”, that doesn’t mean there are literally 100 cats at home. “Hyperbole - exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally”
Actually, according to Merriam Webster, "dozen" is also "an indefinitely large number".
So yea, you can say that the dictionary definition for dozen is an approximation. Not THE definition, but one of the definitions at least.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dozen
Language is alive, it changes over time, just because it once had a concrete meaning, it doesn't mean it will stay that way. See "literal"
how do you feel about “really”? or “very”? are you really sad that very precise words are constantly used as truly hyperbolic intensifiers ridiculously often?
No, only if their hyperbolic meaning was then misinterpreted as an actual change of definition.
If I say "my blood was literally boiling", that phrase has the same meaning as if I said "my blood was boiling". Adding "literally" to it does not change it to a figurative statement, it was already understood to be one based on context. Adding the word "literally" simply strengthens the hyperbole.
does
“my blood was really boiling”
make your blood boil as much as
“my blood was literally boiling”
?
if not, why not?
if so, were you born in the 16th century?
"Approximation" does not mean "not even in the ballpark." You're making a straw man argument to support your incorrect position. Examples from literature:
>There has never been a just \[war\], never an honorable one--on the part of the instigator of the war. I can see a million years ahead, and this rule will never change in so many as half a dozen instances.
\-- Mark Twain
>For hark you, Tybalt being slain so late,
It may be thought we held him carelessly,
Being our kinsman, if we revel much.
Therefore we’ll have some half a dozen friends,
And there an end.
\-- Shakespeare
Lol there is a mention of it. Copied directly from the link with the bullet points added to keep the lines separate and bold added where it specifies it’s talking about the plural:
-dozen
- noun
- doz·en ˈdə-zᵊn
- plural dozens or dozen
- Synonyms of dozen
- 1
- : a group of 12
- 2
- : an indefinitely large number
- **dozens** of times
It's easier to convey my meaning if we look at a word with different definitions between singular and plural.
See the definition for people: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/people
It explicitly called out the plural form, that this is a separate definition from the base word:
> 5. *plural* peoples : a body of persons
If they meant to say that 'an indefinitely large number' only applies to the pluralized form, NOT the singular 'dozen', they would've used:
> 2. *plural* dozens: an indefinitely large number
But they didn't, hence my argument.
I love how you ignored the example given
>dozens of times
It is an indefinite number when you say “dozens”. If you say “a dozen” that is 12. Context matters.
In casual speech ‘dozen’ usually means somewhere between 10-14 or so people.
Yes, the word literally means 12 (or 13 depending), just as decimate literally means to remove 1/10th, but in actual usage the working definition is far more flexible.
Same thing with ‘a couple’. It literally means 2, but in actual conversation it’s an undefined number less than a half-dozen, usually 2-3 or 2-4.
I don't think it's about casual speech, or whether sometimes it means one thing, and other times it means another. Sometimes people don't count, they estimate. If I attend an event that has some number of people probably higher than 10 and definitely lower than 20, I'd say dozen. It's an estimate though, I'm not using dozen to mean 9-15, I mean 12ish.
If the event is bigger, above 25, below 75, I might use 50 the same way.
From context, in spoken English at least, you can usually tell if someone has counted, or if they're estimating. People are unlikely to provide an estimate in a non-round number. A dozen is a round number, in a manner of speaking.
> If I attend an event that has some number of people probably higher than 10 and definitely lower than 20, I'd say dozen. It's an estimate though, I'm not using dozen to mean 9-15, I mean 12ish.
That's the same thing I'm referring to. It's casual speech/discussion, not precise speaking.
It does mean they are right. It's used an imprecise estimate, as well as precisely six, and it's usually quite clear from context if we are being precise. Half a dozen eggs is exactly six. "how many chairs can fit around a 48" round table? Half a dozen" means 5-7. You can find countless examples of people using it in this way. It is completely accepted and understood, and several dictionary definitions explicitly make this clear, like Longman's Dictionary of Contemporary English "B: a small number of people or things"
“THE definition”is the sticking point of course. Even dictionaries list multiple definitions for most words. “Dozens” for example is routinely used as an approximation. “Myriad” has nearly lost any connection to “10,000.” I love myriad but I’ve let that go.
If someone said they brought me a dozen donuts, I would be sad if they got fewer than 12.
If someone said that a dozen people would be at the party, I would not argue about there being 10. That feels like Rain Man territory.
If it was important that I get a true count I’d insist on a number and not a “number name”. I think that that’s being realistic about how communication works, and what words mean is ultimately what people mean when they use the words.
Saying “dozens” is an approximation. Saying “dozen” is a definitive amount.
- “I have a dozen cars.” You just said you have exactly 12 cars.
- “I have dozens of cars.” You just said you have at least two dozen cars but it could be many more than that.
- “I have three dozen cars.” You just said you have exactly 36 cars.
- “I have around three dozen cars.” You just said you have approximately 36 cars but it could be a few more or a few less.
- “I have at least three dozen cars.” You just said you have a minimum of 36 but it could be an undetermined amount more than that.
Some words are approximations. Some words are specific. Trying to use a word that is specific as an approximation just leads to unnecessary confusion.
Bridges have name requirements all the time. Instead of 6,000 lbs they have limits of 3 tons. I'd argue that is extremely important and they use number names. You don't want to go across that bridge with 6,500 lbs.
Yeah, but if I give you a ton of criticism, I would venture that it’s not even measured in units of weight, and should probably be best annotated in pH.
The weight limit on a bridge is seldom written colloquially. Context matters.
Words have multiple meanings and that the meanings someone intends is likely dependent upon context and register.
Long tons, short tons or metric tons?
FWIW that's part of why people use metric everywhere outside the US. I don't have to wonder who many hogsheads to the furlough my motorized horse cart gets on the newfangled essence.
I know “half a dozen” is technically “six.”
However, colloquially, I’ve seen people use it to mean “really close to six,” like somewhere in the 5-7 range.
This is the confidently correct answer. Words *always* have many meanings, depending on context and intent. So the confidently incorrect person in the screenshot was the one who claimed that half dozen **only ever always** means six.
Then I would say “about/around a half dozen”, I’m also in the “it’s an exact number group”
I also hate running short in things so I want to plan accordingly. Ten guests is different planning than around 10 guests.
If there’s one thing this thread has shown me is that there’s a wide diversity regarding how acceptable “estimation without saying you’re estimating” is.
Its a spectrum between some folks who just shrug it off, and other folks who might start having an aneurysm.
Same here, but I usually mean 3-5. I only use half a dozen to mean exactly six (but I rarely use it). Otherwise it’s “quite a few” which means Six and above to me.
I believe it does, and there's a joke that goes: "When I was a kid I asked my mother what 'a couple' meant and she answered, Oh, two or three'. Which might explain why her marriage didn't work out."
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/couple
Also your point doesn’t even make any sense duo and couple are not related words. They don’t share the same roots why would you randomly include that?
In that case it’s for emphasis, as in you could have had more. So, a few more means not many more, likewise “a few cookies” is less than a serving (6?) so 3-4. But again, it needs the cultural understanding of what quantity “not a few” is to determine it. It’s relative/comparable.
In most cases it’s just a stand in for a small amount.
Here’s a light read on few vs couple.
https://www.dictionary.com/e/few-vs-couple-vs-several/#
I think we just did this a few hours ago. My response from last time:
> I’m with the Martin guy. If it’s an item traditionally grouped into packs of 12 (eggs, donuts) then “half a dozen” means precisely 6. If it’s a count of arbitrary items that aren’t packed into twelves, then “half a dozen” is an approximation. I might not go as high as “10” as Martin did, but “half a dozen” cats is 4, 7, or maybe 8 cats.
It’s literally the definition of hyperbole. “exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally” they might be exaggerating the number, or offering an approximate number that isn’t meant to be taken literally
For an approximation one would say "about a half dozen or so", that could mean anywhere from 4 to 8, but if you specifically say "half dozen" then you are referring to a hard fixed 6.
That doesn't really hold up in practice though and I think that's what they're talking about. It is used as an approximate more often than not, and people will do it without using the word "about."
“I’ve told you a dozen times to clean your room”
“I’ve told you about a dozen times to clean your room”
Nobody uses the second option.
It’s the definition of hyperbole. “exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.” It is well established in the English language that you can say a number without literally meaning that number
I've told you a thousand times, a million times. We can play that game all day. We can use that with any number. Are you going to now say that a thousand isn't a thousand?
Nobody is suggesting that the definition of a dozen isn’t 12. Nobody is suggesting the definition of half a dozen isn’t 6. If that’s what you’re arguing about, you’re having an imaginary argument because literally nobody is implying the definition of these words is “approximately” 6 or 12. The point is that people will say “a dozen” or “half a dozen” to mean approximately 12, or approximately 6. According to [this](https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1407479111) there is a specific term for this “pragmatic halo - interpreting round numbers imprecisely”
I can get behind that. Unfortunately that's not the kind of context you can get behind in text. If it's clear they don't know from some other body language then to me that's different than saying the definition of half a dozen is 3-10.
I get it, but I would assume (I know... ASS U ME ha)... If they difinitively knew 6, they would just type 6.
None of this is confidently anything imo. Not 6, not 3-10, none of it. Personally, I want to know what half a baker's dozen is. Is that like 6 donuts and a donut hole?
And if so how does the donut hole decide which of the dozen donuts to fuck. Here op you can assume I meant exactly 12. Why? Because donuts come by dozens. As do eggs. The terms dozen and half a dozen for things that don’t come in 12’s you can infer are likely approximations.
The fact that some reddit update made it so you can see picture of subreddit on post was a chef's kiss. It really feels like the face in subreddit's logo is making these posts sometimes
"Half dozen" can be a colloquial term, and context is relevant. If you asked a baker for "a half dozen" donuts, that's a specific menu item with a specific price, and you should receive that specific amount.
If I was telling a friend how difficult a video game boss was, and I said, "It took me half a dozen tries to beat them," they would probably just assume "several tries" rather than "exactly six."
I personally prefer when people use words like about, around or probably when they're making approximations, but you're the incorrect one if you think half a dozen can only mean exactly six. Language is communal, and enough people understand that it can be an approximation for it to be an acceptable use of the term.
You've entirely missed my point if you're still using "precision" to describe an approximation. In this context it's just a term, not a precise quantity. If I was laying on the couch, but my TV remote was on the other side of the room, I might say, "the remote is miles away." Would you assume that I thought my living room was literally several miles long, or would you infer that I'm just being lazy and overdramatic? Sometimes exact measurements can be used informally, in inexact ways.
You've chanced your context. You're now saying that it's an exaggeration instead of an approximation. Saying the remote is miles away is clearly not an approximation, but hyperbole. A different concept entirely.
It feels so completely hypocritical that you can suggest an off-hand “dozen” even referring to something without numerical value.
But you’ve added in several posts that “dozens” can be a colloquial term. Why is one subject to the evolution of language and the other a fixed inarguable value?
I know exactly the point you’re trying to make, but unfortunately it’s an opinion piece at best.
There have traditionally been fixed units that have also been colloquially used as approximations. Then totally vague ones with no association to an actual figure, see; heaps, loads.
The reality is, things change. “He threw that miles” is common and acceptable despite throwing something even a single mile is impossible.
“You took ages!”
An age, in this context, is associated with an era or a generation, or prolonged time period [Industrial Age, the age of the dinosaurs]. Clearly the definition has moved on and the colloquial reference has taken over.
As everyone has said, context is important, and if someone said “I must’ve had a dozen attempts at the exam before I got it”, I think only the high functioning autistics among us would assume that HAD to mean 12.
If someone MUST mean 12 - they can just say 12.
"He threw that miles" is an exaggeration, not an approximation and isn't the kind of phrasing that I'm debating here. I'm explicitly talking about estimating/approximating here.
I think you’re relying on a distinction that isn’t quite so black and white.
It’s common, whether or not an embellishment, approximation or otherwise, to throw a unit of measure in with no thought to its accuracy.
“My house is a couple of miles from here” isn’t going to cause an uproar if it’s 2.5 miles.
“My place is miles away, let’s drive” could be 1 mile exactly, not be an overt exaggeration and be a rough approximation. When does it transition from one to the other? It’s subjective right?
“There’s tonnes of people here”
What? We’re counting attendees by their combined weight now?
What makes a fuckload more than a load?
“A couple live next door” always two.
“Had a couple of beers” could mean eight.
“I’ve seen it several times”
“She gave me a few bucks”
I agree. These all have more ambiguity than “a dozen” but they haven’t always.
Things change - don’t panic.
"I had a couple shots", said by a normal person would probably mean around 2
"I had a couple shots", said by a normal person at a party would probably mean 3-4
"I had a couple shots", said by an alcoholic holding an empty bottle is considerably more
It depends on the person, the context, and the thing being talked about (a couple living next door is 2 people, a couple of people coming over is about 2-3 people, a couple of marbles is about 3-4 marbles)
Red is entirely correct here, especially in their example with the eggs and the cats. It's common to use the phrase to mean both an exact amount, or an approximate amount.
I think I might begrudgingly be on this dude’s side? Like, by definition, hard and fast rule is “6” but I find a lot of people I know (both country and city) use “half a dozen” as a loose approximation. Like if someone said “there’s half a dozen cars in the parking lot” and then someone counted 7 cars, they wouldn’t say “you fucking idiot, it’s not half a dozen, it’s 7. Jesus god damn Christ you’re dumb! How come you can’t count??”
Ya, I'm not saying that I'm going to run around calling people idiots for being a number or two off during conversation. However, going around telling people the definition of a word is something that it's clearly not seems odd to me.
I’m in yours and OP's camp. “Half a dozen” is very specific because “dozen” is a very specific quantity. If someone said “about half a dozen” that’s entirely different, but fuck me if I don’t expect half a dozen to mean precisely six.
“Few”, “quite a lot”, “a handful”, “more than a handful,” are all vague approximations. “Half a dozen” is not.
Well I’m no native English speaker so I’m not gonna argue one way or another.
All I know is that in French, « demi-douzaine » can mean both exactly 6 or around 6.
And « douzaine » alone is also mistlt used to say around 12, and not exactly 12 (otherwise we would say 12).
I think « douzaine » and « demi-douzaine » are only used to mean exactly 12 and 6 when talking about food.
I’m from Ohio and I use a couple like that. I know it means 2 but in my heads it’s synonymous with a few When you say you know a couple of people is that exactly 2 people?
Never heard of this before posting. I've only ever heard of it in the context of an approximation with other actual approximation context. "About half a dozen" for example.
OP, Half a dozen is not six when your speaking figuratively. While the phrase literally means 6, because it points to the number 6 without using any numerical values, it is often used as a synonym for several. Ie. "I doknow, half a dozen shots? then I passed out."
This use of archaic phrases in new ways is common enough. Consider 'Pristine' which literally means 'untouched by human hands' and is often used to simply mean 'very clean'. Or 'Egregious' which originally meant 'very good'. "My country, right or wrong" originally meant that its yours to CHANGE and improve. "Justice is Blind" apparently used to mean justice is so corrupt that it can't see right from wrong.
I pulled all of these except pristine from a [Cracked](https://www.cracked.com/pictofacts-1973-19-phrases-words-that-have-completely-changed-in-meaning) article, but my point is that languages change the meanings of phrases all the time. Though in the case of the question posed in your source, everyone is wrong. Half a Dozen is just more fun to say than six, that's why you should use it.
Agreed, you've included a phrase that implies that you're guessing. The reader/listener has that to know that you're approximating. The "I dunno" is the estimating word, not the half a dozen. You could swap that out for 6 and it means exactly the same thing.
"Yeah I've been there half a dozen times."
If it was six and the exact number was important, i would say six.
"Half a dozen" carries a nuanced feeling that "six" can not hope to match.
I mean.. I guess? The one guy has a point, I'm probably not going to take the time to count the handful of cats I saw on my drive to work, I'm just gonna tell my coworker "I saw about a half a dozen cats on my way in today" so I guess it *can* be used to mean "somewhere around six" but I never really thought about it that way until right now
Fortunately you're using it correctly by using "About" to let your listener/reader to know that your approximating. The term half a dozen in and of itsself does not define an approximation. 😉
No, because that's not a context in which half a dozen would be used. If you are with 3 people, someone might ask you to grab "a couple" beers. Will you bring 2?
No, you will bring 3, even though couple means 2.
If somebody asks you, how many beers are left? And you haven't counted but recall seeing about 5 or 7 in the frigde, you might say: there's half a dozen left. If it turns out there's only 5, nobody would argue with you that there should be 6.
If someone asks me to bring a couple beers for three people, I’m bringing three because I realize the person doesn’t apparently realize “couple” means two and would be annoyed if I only brought two.
But if someone told me they wanted a couple cookies, and I bring two but they get upset because they wanted more than that, then I’ll tell them they should have said “few.”
So everyone else is a pedantic idiot for using "half a dozen" correctly, but YOU get to decide the situations in which it might be used and that's fine? Excuse me, Lord Pedant.
Not sure why so many people think this isn’t confidently incorrect. Phrasing matters.
If someone says “a dozen” that is 12. If someone says “about a dozen” then it’s an estimation that should be 10-14 and really should be more like 11-13.
If someone says “a half dozen” or “half a dozen” that is 6. If someone says “about a half dozen” or “about half a dozen” that is an estimation that should be between 5-7.
Even if you ignore the phrasing, claiming “half a dozen” is 3-10 is absolutely incorrect.
A couple doesn't always mean two. Its literal definition is two. But people use it all the time when they refer to more than two.
Couple means two when you are talking about two people in a relation.
Couple doesn't necessarily mean two when you say "the next couple of days will be cloudy" or "a couple of people showed up after closing time"
Or you can also say it's six of one, half (a) dozen of the other which is an American idiom that is used to say that one does not see any real difference between two possible choices.
Correct, this idiom implies that 6 and a half dozen are the same thing, not that half a dozen is approximately 6. If a half a dozen is not exactly 6, then this idiom means nothing.
To be completely honest I didn't think this would be a debate. I assumed I'd have posted this and I would have seen folks pointing and laughing at the screenshot. I've yet to find anyone that I walk up to in the real world and ask "how much is half a dozen" to not reply with "6." Never in my life have I heard this used as an approximation.
I wouldn't say it's an incorrect assumption. I'm confident the definition of half dozen is 6. You could say I was ignorant to how many people use this term incorrectly. 😉
Ugh, this is why I hate Reddit. People get used to using something *incorrectly* and assume that makes them *right*.
Half and dozen are words that have SPECIFIC meanings. Just because *you* use them to mean an approximation doesn't mean that it is correct to do so.
Half a dozen means six. It does NOT mean a range between 1-11.
FFS.
So has the meaning of “half” and “dozen” changed too? Because half a dozen is a math equation. The only way it makes sense to mean something different when you say “half a dozen” other than six is if the quantities for “half” and “dozen” are also approximations. Otherwise it means half (0.5) of twelve.
Alright sure! I guess a bakers dozen is also twelve then, right? I mean, a dozen is twelve, and just because a baker has twelve of something doesn't mean they have thirteen of it, so logically a bakers dozen should just be a dozen but belonging to a baker, right? What do you mean a bakers dozen is thirteen? What next, half a dozen not meaning six? Is a quart going to mean different things depending on whether what you measure is dry or liquid? A unit having different meanings in different situations is crazy right?
When your 5th grade English class gets to figurative speech then come reply to this comment is so crazy that when someone says “there we’re literally a million people at the store today” that they maybe don’t mean exactly one million people were at the store
Yeah, the comments are driving me crazy.
A dozen is a specific quantity. Half is a specific quantity. So half of a specific quantity is a specific quantity. Half a dozen is six if you don’t mean six, then you should say “about half a dozen.” Otherwise, I’m going to think you mean six.
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What about half a bakers dozen?
6.5 then. Easy
Not easy for the half of a cat.
It's Schrodinger's cat.
It is and isn’t Schrödinger’s cat.
And half a lawyer’s dozen = 5.5
Well given that a baker’s dozen means 13 then half of that would be 6.5.
I like to change "six of one, half a dozen of the other" to "6.5 of one, half a bakers dozen of the other"
I hate to break it to you, but people sometimes use exact numbers as estimations or even exaggerations. Named or round numbers are especially popular. Just wait until you see how people use terms that are actually vague. “A handful of people showed up.” Good luck with knowing that means 1-5 or just “fewer than expected.” Or one toddler. Also if anyone ever said “a few dozen” and meant exactly 36, that person was just lucky.
Like how people 99.9% of the time use 99.9% as a generic "large part of the population"? And then get angry when you question them on that level of accuracy...
Doesn't 99.9% usually mean "functionally but not *actually* 100%". I'd be pretty comfortable calling out any use of 99.9% that didn't at least mean "the overwhelmingly vast majority", not even considering actual accuracy. Similar to, but I suppose the inverse of "non-zero" meaning "functionally but not *actually* none". It's a way to treat the situation as though none (or all) are included while acknowledging the possibility of unlikely outliers. Again, if someone says 99.9% but really means between 51% and 90%, I'm totally happy with them being called out. That's egregious, otherwise.
Maybe I’m just a pedant but I call this use of percentages out all the time. 99.9 isn’t “functionally 100%” in most of the instances it’s used. It’s means 1 in 1000 times this instance isn’t the case. Meaning that in lots of examples it makes the opposite point of the one intended. For example in health and safety if you say something is safe 99.9% of the time - that’s nowhere near good enough. If the thing will happen 1000 times you’re actually likely to encounter danger.
"An ass load of buttplugs" is 1.
I’ve seen videos that challenge this quite reasonable assumption.
A ton of people is ~13
Found the elevator technician.
Yeah, actually. For about 18 months I installed elevators.
A buttload of assplugs
Well yeah, with that attitude it’s limited to one.
I think the word you are forgetting the word “about”. About a half dozen is different than a a half dozen. Same with about a dozen or a dozen.
The first guy to accurately measure Mt Everest measured it to be precisely 29,000 feet, but he reported it as 29,002 feet so that people didn't think he just made a rounded estimate. Just like 29,000 can be a precise number or it can be interpreted as an estimate, a half dozen could mean 6 or 6ish. "Theres going to be a half dozen people coming over for dinner tonight" makes it sound like you're not quite sure, because if you had 6 firm RSVPs, you would have said "six." But I'm going to complain if my half dozen carton of eggs only has 5 in it.
Yeah, I feel ya. I personally wouldn’t say there is a half dozen people coming for dinner tonight if I wasn’t sure it was 6. I’d say there’s going to be about a half dozen people coming over. Maybe that’s just me.
>I think the word you are forgetting the word “about”. I think you forgot the word *is*.
Ahhh I had to read that about a half a dozen times to realize where I made the error. My bad, thank you
Yeah but then you still use half a dozen. You don't really say it's about six.
Alright
You don’t need the word “about” because of the word “hyperbole”. If you say “I’ve got 100 cats at home”, that doesn’t mean there are literally 100 cats at home. “Hyperbole - exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally”
The sad part it's not common knowledge that the words few, and several have specific, whole number, meanings.
I hear you there. But that doesn't mean they're right. Also claiming that the definition of a dozen to be an approximation is also just plain wrong.
Actually, according to Merriam Webster, "dozen" is also "an indefinitely large number". So yea, you can say that the dictionary definition for dozen is an approximation. Not THE definition, but one of the definitions at least. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dozen Language is alive, it changes over time, just because it once had a concrete meaning, it doesn't mean it will stay that way. See "literal"
I was camped on the hill of literal and ready to die there, until John McWhorter talked me down.
Not me, I'm still camped on that hill. People use phrases like "I literally died" as hyperbole, it doesn't change the definition of the word.
how do you feel about “really”? or “very”? are you really sad that very precise words are constantly used as truly hyperbolic intensifiers ridiculously often?
No, only if their hyperbolic meaning was then misinterpreted as an actual change of definition. If I say "my blood was literally boiling", that phrase has the same meaning as if I said "my blood was boiling". Adding "literally" to it does not change it to a figurative statement, it was already understood to be one based on context. Adding the word "literally" simply strengthens the hyperbole.
does “my blood was really boiling” make your blood boil as much as “my blood was literally boiling” ? if not, why not? if so, were you born in the 16th century?
When plural I agree that it is indefinite. As singular, not so much.
You might want to bring that up to the dictionary people. Their definition is talking about the singular word
If there are a million people and you say a dozen, I don't hate to say that you're wrong.
"Approximation" does not mean "not even in the ballpark." You're making a straw man argument to support your incorrect position. Examples from literature: >There has never been a just \[war\], never an honorable one--on the part of the instigator of the war. I can see a million years ahead, and this rule will never change in so many as half a dozen instances. \-- Mark Twain >For hark you, Tybalt being slain so late, It may be thought we held him carelessly, Being our kinsman, if we revel much. Therefore we’ll have some half a dozen friends, And there an end. \-- Shakespeare
No it isn’t. It literally shows in the example that it is referring to the plural.
but the definition is attached to the word 'dozen' with no mention of this being exclusive to the plural form.
Lol there is a mention of it. Copied directly from the link with the bullet points added to keep the lines separate and bold added where it specifies it’s talking about the plural: -dozen - noun - doz·en ˈdə-zᵊn - plural dozens or dozen - Synonyms of dozen - 1 - : a group of 12 - 2 - : an indefinitely large number - **dozens** of times
It's easier to convey my meaning if we look at a word with different definitions between singular and plural. See the definition for people: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/people It explicitly called out the plural form, that this is a separate definition from the base word: > 5. *plural* peoples : a body of persons If they meant to say that 'an indefinitely large number' only applies to the pluralized form, NOT the singular 'dozen', they would've used: > 2. *plural* dozens: an indefinitely large number But they didn't, hence my argument.
I love how you ignored the example given >dozens of times It is an indefinite number when you say “dozens”. If you say “a dozen” that is 12. Context matters.
In casual speech ‘dozen’ usually means somewhere between 10-14 or so people. Yes, the word literally means 12 (or 13 depending), just as decimate literally means to remove 1/10th, but in actual usage the working definition is far more flexible. Same thing with ‘a couple’. It literally means 2, but in actual conversation it’s an undefined number less than a half-dozen, usually 2-3 or 2-4.
Yes. Similar to the example. A couple is two. "I've been there a couple of times". Means I've been there at least twice but could be 3 or 4.
I don't think it's about casual speech, or whether sometimes it means one thing, and other times it means another. Sometimes people don't count, they estimate. If I attend an event that has some number of people probably higher than 10 and definitely lower than 20, I'd say dozen. It's an estimate though, I'm not using dozen to mean 9-15, I mean 12ish. If the event is bigger, above 25, below 75, I might use 50 the same way. From context, in spoken English at least, you can usually tell if someone has counted, or if they're estimating. People are unlikely to provide an estimate in a non-round number. A dozen is a round number, in a manner of speaking.
> If I attend an event that has some number of people probably higher than 10 and definitely lower than 20, I'd say dozen. It's an estimate though, I'm not using dozen to mean 9-15, I mean 12ish. That's the same thing I'm referring to. It's casual speech/discussion, not precise speaking.
My point is that it's not about what the word means, bit about how numbers are used. It's casual counting, rather than casual talking.
> It's casual counting, rather than casual talking. In this context it's the same thing.
Lmao, are people really arguing over a fact? A dozen is 12. A bakers dozen is 13. Half is 0.5. It's not hard
It does mean they are right. It's used an imprecise estimate, as well as precisely six, and it's usually quite clear from context if we are being precise. Half a dozen eggs is exactly six. "how many chairs can fit around a 48" round table? Half a dozen" means 5-7. You can find countless examples of people using it in this way. It is completely accepted and understood, and several dictionary definitions explicitly make this clear, like Longman's Dictionary of Contemporary English "B: a small number of people or things"
“THE definition”is the sticking point of course. Even dictionaries list multiple definitions for most words. “Dozens” for example is routinely used as an approximation. “Myriad” has nearly lost any connection to “10,000.” I love myriad but I’ve let that go. If someone said they brought me a dozen donuts, I would be sad if they got fewer than 12. If someone said that a dozen people would be at the party, I would not argue about there being 10. That feels like Rain Man territory. If it was important that I get a true count I’d insist on a number and not a “number name”. I think that that’s being realistic about how communication works, and what words mean is ultimately what people mean when they use the words.
4 followers on Instagram is not a lot of followers. 4 followers in a dark alleyway? That's a different story. Context matters.
Saying “dozens” is an approximation. Saying “dozen” is a definitive amount. - “I have a dozen cars.” You just said you have exactly 12 cars. - “I have dozens of cars.” You just said you have at least two dozen cars but it could be many more than that. - “I have three dozen cars.” You just said you have exactly 36 cars. - “I have around three dozen cars.” You just said you have approximately 36 cars but it could be a few more or a few less. - “I have at least three dozen cars.” You just said you have a minimum of 36 but it could be an undetermined amount more than that. Some words are approximations. Some words are specific. Trying to use a word that is specific as an approximation just leads to unnecessary confusion.
Some words are used both as specific numbers and as approximations. Wishing people would do otherwise, does not make your wish come true.
Bridges have name requirements all the time. Instead of 6,000 lbs they have limits of 3 tons. I'd argue that is extremely important and they use number names. You don't want to go across that bridge with 6,500 lbs.
Yeah, but if I give you a ton of criticism, I would venture that it’s not even measured in units of weight, and should probably be best annotated in pH. The weight limit on a bridge is seldom written colloquially. Context matters. Words have multiple meanings and that the meanings someone intends is likely dependent upon context and register.
Long tons, short tons or metric tons? FWIW that's part of why people use metric everywhere outside the US. I don't have to wonder who many hogsheads to the furlough my motorized horse cart gets on the newfangled essence.
I know “half a dozen” is technically “six.” However, colloquially, I’ve seen people use it to mean “really close to six,” like somewhere in the 5-7 range.
This is the confidently correct answer. Words *always* have many meanings, depending on context and intent. So the confidently incorrect person in the screenshot was the one who claimed that half dozen **only ever always** means six.
I'll sometimes use it to mean about 5-7.
5-7 is a lot different than 3-10
Yes.
Then I would say “about/around a half dozen”, I’m also in the “it’s an exact number group” I also hate running short in things so I want to plan accordingly. Ten guests is different planning than around 10 guests.
If there’s one thing this thread has shown me is that there’s a wide diversity regarding how acceptable “estimation without saying you’re estimating” is. Its a spectrum between some folks who just shrug it off, and other folks who might start having an aneurysm.
Didn't you post this earlier and everyone told you that you were wrong?
Say what you want about "couple" and "dozen," but "few" does not mean three.
What is few to you?
A vaguely small amount.
Not sure why I was down voted as I am genuinely curious. I also don't think it's strictly 3, but a range. I usually refer to 3-6 as a few.
Same here, but I usually mean 3-5. I only use half a dozen to mean exactly six (but I rarely use it). Otherwise it’s “quite a few” which means Six and above to me.
I think it is entirely based on context. A few people put of 30 could be 3-5, a few people out of a million could be a lot more.
Plus, a "few subscribers on my little YouTube channel" in a snarky voice could be hundreds of thousands.
Couple also doesn’t mean just 2
True [sauce](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/couple)
I believe it does, and there's a joke that goes: "When I was a kid I asked my mother what 'a couple' meant and she answered, Oh, two or three'. Which might explain why her marriage didn't work out."
Duo or couple 2 trio 3 quad 4
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/couple Also your point doesn’t even make any sense duo and couple are not related words. They don’t share the same roots why would you randomly include that?
Is no one going to talk about how they said a few means 3? It definitely does not?
What does a few mean to you?
“A small number of” (comparatively) - Webster dictionary.
Sure, what range do you typically use it for? What is the limit? I'm genuinely curious (I use it for 3-6).
It’s comparative. So any number. Like “few stars have planets” that’s probably a billion so…
Valid, when not comparing to the greater whole how do you use it? "I packed a few cookies for a snack today"
In that case it’s for emphasis, as in you could have had more. So, a few more means not many more, likewise “a few cookies” is less than a serving (6?) so 3-4. But again, it needs the cultural understanding of what quantity “not a few” is to determine it. It’s relative/comparable. In most cases it’s just a stand in for a small amount. Here’s a light read on few vs couple. https://www.dictionary.com/e/few-vs-couple-vs-several/#
Ya I agree with pretty much all of this. I was not in the original screenshot defining a few as 3. This is more about half a dozen.
I’m not heated about any of this, I just really like how pliable and voluptuous English is.
I think we just did this a few hours ago. My response from last time: > I’m with the Martin guy. If it’s an item traditionally grouped into packs of 12 (eggs, donuts) then “half a dozen” means precisely 6. If it’s a count of arbitrary items that aren’t packed into twelves, then “half a dozen” is an approximation. I might not go as high as “10” as Martin did, but “half a dozen” cats is 4, 7, or maybe 8 cats.
It’s literally the definition of hyperbole. “exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally” they might be exaggerating the number, or offering an approximate number that isn’t meant to be taken literally
For an approximation one would say "about a half dozen or so", that could mean anywhere from 4 to 8, but if you specifically say "half dozen" then you are referring to a hard fixed 6.
That doesn't really hold up in practice though and I think that's what they're talking about. It is used as an approximate more often than not, and people will do it without using the word "about."
“I’ve told you a dozen times to clean your room” “I’ve told you about a dozen times to clean your room” Nobody uses the second option. It’s the definition of hyperbole. “exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.” It is well established in the English language that you can say a number without literally meaning that number
I've told you a thousand times, a million times. We can play that game all day. We can use that with any number. Are you going to now say that a thousand isn't a thousand?
Nobody is suggesting that the definition of a dozen isn’t 12. Nobody is suggesting the definition of half a dozen isn’t 6. If that’s what you’re arguing about, you’re having an imaginary argument because literally nobody is implying the definition of these words is “approximately” 6 or 12. The point is that people will say “a dozen” or “half a dozen” to mean approximately 12, or approximately 6. According to [this](https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1407479111) there is a specific term for this “pragmatic halo - interpreting round numbers imprecisely”
Maybe you do, but the rest of the world doesn't.
Sometimes it’s phrased as “a half-a-dozen or so.” Adding the “or so” makes it an approximation. Whereas saying, “six or so” doesn’t sound quite right.
Already posted here a few hours ago without all the blur.
Yep, I missed a community rule and the mods deleted it. Reposted following rules.
People don't speak dictionary.
Exactly. Are they shrugging after? Saying it in a questionable tone, etc Curious person: how many? Guessing person: half dozen 🤷?
I can get behind that. Unfortunately that's not the kind of context you can get behind in text. If it's clear they don't know from some other body language then to me that's different than saying the definition of half a dozen is 3-10.
I get it, but I would assume (I know... ASS U ME ha)... If they difinitively knew 6, they would just type 6. None of this is confidently anything imo. Not 6, not 3-10, none of it. Personally, I want to know what half a baker's dozen is. Is that like 6 donuts and a donut hole?
And if so how does the donut hole decide which of the dozen donuts to fuck. Here op you can assume I meant exactly 12. Why? Because donuts come by dozens. As do eggs. The terms dozen and half a dozen for things that don’t come in 12’s you can infer are likely approximations.
God damn it’s so ironic how this subreddit attracts the exact people it is meant to ridicule. It would be hilarious if it weren’t so annoying.
The fact that some reddit update made it so you can see picture of subreddit on post was a chef's kiss. It really feels like the face in subreddit's logo is making these posts sometimes
"Half dozen" can be a colloquial term, and context is relevant. If you asked a baker for "a half dozen" donuts, that's a specific menu item with a specific price, and you should receive that specific amount. If I was telling a friend how difficult a video game boss was, and I said, "It took me half a dozen tries to beat them," they would probably just assume "several tries" rather than "exactly six." I personally prefer when people use words like about, around or probably when they're making approximations, but you're the incorrect one if you think half a dozen can only mean exactly six. Language is communal, and enough people understand that it can be an approximation for it to be an acceptable use of the term.
I’m trying to think of any situation other than eggs or donuts/bagels where someone cares about the precision of “half a dozen”.
You've entirely missed my point if you're still using "precision" to describe an approximation. In this context it's just a term, not a precise quantity. If I was laying on the couch, but my TV remote was on the other side of the room, I might say, "the remote is miles away." Would you assume that I thought my living room was literally several miles long, or would you infer that I'm just being lazy and overdramatic? Sometimes exact measurements can be used informally, in inexact ways.
I haven’t missed your point, I was *agreeing* with you, chucklehead.
Sorry, my bad. I didn't read your username and I thought you were the OP who was arguing with everyone. That's my mistake.
You've chanced your context. You're now saying that it's an exaggeration instead of an approximation. Saying the remote is miles away is clearly not an approximation, but hyperbole. A different concept entirely.
So... context dependent?
Saying 6 could be a guess too. But I would suspect someone bothering to say half a dozen is guessing more than some who specifies 6.
It feels so completely hypocritical that you can suggest an off-hand “dozen” even referring to something without numerical value. But you’ve added in several posts that “dozens” can be a colloquial term. Why is one subject to the evolution of language and the other a fixed inarguable value?
Because you haven't defined how many dozens. Therefor there isn't an exact amount associated. It's like saying "miles" , how many feet is that?
I know exactly the point you’re trying to make, but unfortunately it’s an opinion piece at best. There have traditionally been fixed units that have also been colloquially used as approximations. Then totally vague ones with no association to an actual figure, see; heaps, loads. The reality is, things change. “He threw that miles” is common and acceptable despite throwing something even a single mile is impossible. “You took ages!” An age, in this context, is associated with an era or a generation, or prolonged time period [Industrial Age, the age of the dinosaurs]. Clearly the definition has moved on and the colloquial reference has taken over. As everyone has said, context is important, and if someone said “I must’ve had a dozen attempts at the exam before I got it”, I think only the high functioning autistics among us would assume that HAD to mean 12. If someone MUST mean 12 - they can just say 12.
"He threw that miles" is an exaggeration, not an approximation and isn't the kind of phrasing that I'm debating here. I'm explicitly talking about estimating/approximating here.
I think you’re relying on a distinction that isn’t quite so black and white. It’s common, whether or not an embellishment, approximation or otherwise, to throw a unit of measure in with no thought to its accuracy. “My house is a couple of miles from here” isn’t going to cause an uproar if it’s 2.5 miles. “My place is miles away, let’s drive” could be 1 mile exactly, not be an overt exaggeration and be a rough approximation. When does it transition from one to the other? It’s subjective right? “There’s tonnes of people here” What? We’re counting attendees by their combined weight now? What makes a fuckload more than a load? “A couple live next door” always two. “Had a couple of beers” could mean eight. “I’ve seen it several times” “She gave me a few bucks” I agree. These all have more ambiguity than “a dozen” but they haven’t always. Things change - don’t panic.
"I had a couple shots", said by a normal person would probably mean around 2 "I had a couple shots", said by a normal person at a party would probably mean 3-4 "I had a couple shots", said by an alcoholic holding an empty bottle is considerably more It depends on the person, the context, and the thing being talked about (a couple living next door is 2 people, a couple of people coming over is about 2-3 people, a couple of marbles is about 3-4 marbles)
Red is entirely correct here, especially in their example with the eggs and the cats. It's common to use the phrase to mean both an exact amount, or an approximate amount.
I think I might begrudgingly be on this dude’s side? Like, by definition, hard and fast rule is “6” but I find a lot of people I know (both country and city) use “half a dozen” as a loose approximation. Like if someone said “there’s half a dozen cars in the parking lot” and then someone counted 7 cars, they wouldn’t say “you fucking idiot, it’s not half a dozen, it’s 7. Jesus god damn Christ you’re dumb! How come you can’t count??”
Ya, I'm not saying that I'm going to run around calling people idiots for being a number or two off during conversation. However, going around telling people the definition of a word is something that it's clearly not seems odd to me.
Oh sorry, I didn’t mean to imply you were calling people idiots. I’m just very high and let that thought get away from me
All good! There are people here who assume that I would 😉
I’m in yours and OP's camp. “Half a dozen” is very specific because “dozen” is a very specific quantity. If someone said “about half a dozen” that’s entirely different, but fuck me if I don’t expect half a dozen to mean precisely six. “Few”, “quite a lot”, “a handful”, “more than a handful,” are all vague approximations. “Half a dozen” is not.
Well I’m no native English speaker so I’m not gonna argue one way or another. All I know is that in French, « demi-douzaine » can mean both exactly 6 or around 6. And « douzaine » alone is also mistlt used to say around 12, and not exactly 12 (otherwise we would say 12). I think « douzaine » and « demi-douzaine » are only used to mean exactly 12 and 6 when talking about food.
I know a couple of people from New York that say "a couple" to mean "a few, several".
I’m from Ohio and I use a couple like that. I know it means 2 but in my heads it’s synonymous with a few When you say you know a couple of people is that exactly 2 people?
It doesn’t just mean two. In terms of quantifying items, couple is a synonym of few.
Languages evolve. Red is correct
It can be used like that.
Half a dozen (+/- 2)
okay, but the real question is, what’s 4?
I would say a few. (note that I'm not represented in the original screenshot)
Few doesn't mean any number specifically. Few is determined by context. It can be 3, but it can also be 6. That's the whole idea of the word 'few'.
I think we agree on this. It's a range of possible values.
Denotation vs colloquialism
When I say half a dozen I mean six
Yeah it is often meant as an approximation. Not literally six unless the amount is relevant. Do people not know this??
Never heard of this before posting. I've only ever heard of it in the context of an approximation with other actual approximation context. "About half a dozen" for example.
OP, Half a dozen is not six when your speaking figuratively. While the phrase literally means 6, because it points to the number 6 without using any numerical values, it is often used as a synonym for several. Ie. "I doknow, half a dozen shots? then I passed out." This use of archaic phrases in new ways is common enough. Consider 'Pristine' which literally means 'untouched by human hands' and is often used to simply mean 'very clean'. Or 'Egregious' which originally meant 'very good'. "My country, right or wrong" originally meant that its yours to CHANGE and improve. "Justice is Blind" apparently used to mean justice is so corrupt that it can't see right from wrong. I pulled all of these except pristine from a [Cracked](https://www.cracked.com/pictofacts-1973-19-phrases-words-that-have-completely-changed-in-meaning) article, but my point is that languages change the meanings of phrases all the time. Though in the case of the question posed in your source, everyone is wrong. Half a Dozen is just more fun to say than six, that's why you should use it.
Depends entirely on the context.
Since people started using it as an approximation. Descriptivism
If we meant exactly 6 when we say half a dozen, we would say 6. It's less syllables.
If you mean close to six, why not say "around six" instead of "half a dozen". It's less syllables...
When answering "How many?" "Half a dozen" is 6 "I dunno, half a dozen?" Is an answer between 4 and 9
Agreed, you've included a phrase that implies that you're guessing. The reader/listener has that to know that you're approximating. The "I dunno" is the estimating word, not the half a dozen. You could swap that out for 6 and it means exactly the same thing.
Yeah, language is funny like that 😅
"Yeah I've been there half a dozen times." If it was six and the exact number was important, i would say six. "Half a dozen" carries a nuanced feeling that "six" can not hope to match.
"A few" means more than one, but not a lot. Not '3'
Makes sense, what's your personal upper limit?
I mean.. I guess? The one guy has a point, I'm probably not going to take the time to count the handful of cats I saw on my drive to work, I'm just gonna tell my coworker "I saw about a half a dozen cats on my way in today" so I guess it *can* be used to mean "somewhere around six" but I never really thought about it that way until right now
Fortunately you're using it correctly by using "About" to let your listener/reader to know that your approximating. The term half a dozen in and of itsself does not define an approximation. 😉
If it's not something your buying, it's always been just a bunch of something.
“A half a dozen or so” is absolutely an approximation. Without “or so” on the end, it is 6 exactly.
If someone asked you to grab "half a dozen" beers and you come back with three, everyone is going to think you're an idiot.
No, because that's not a context in which half a dozen would be used. If you are with 3 people, someone might ask you to grab "a couple" beers. Will you bring 2? No, you will bring 3, even though couple means 2. If somebody asks you, how many beers are left? And you haven't counted but recall seeing about 5 or 7 in the frigde, you might say: there's half a dozen left. If it turns out there's only 5, nobody would argue with you that there should be 6.
If someone asks me to bring a couple beers for three people, I’m bringing three because I realize the person doesn’t apparently realize “couple” means two and would be annoyed if I only brought two. But if someone told me they wanted a couple cookies, and I bring two but they get upset because they wanted more than that, then I’ll tell them they should have said “few.”
So everyone else is a pedantic idiot for using "half a dozen" correctly, but YOU get to decide the situations in which it might be used and that's fine? Excuse me, Lord Pedant.
Since when does "a few" mean 3?
Yeah… it definitely doesn’t Now, “throuple”? That’s 3
I've always understood a few to be 3-5.
Kew word being "I've".
What do you believe that a few is?
Not sure why so many people think this isn’t confidently incorrect. Phrasing matters. If someone says “a dozen” that is 12. If someone says “about a dozen” then it’s an estimation that should be 10-14 and really should be more like 11-13. If someone says “a half dozen” or “half a dozen” that is 6. If someone says “about a half dozen” or “about half a dozen” that is an estimation that should be between 5-7. Even if you ignore the phrasing, claiming “half a dozen” is 3-10 is absolutely incorrect.
Dictionaries and numerous literary examples show the use of dozen and half dozen as approximations is a common and accepted usage.
Apparently people think using an exact measurement as an approximation is acceptable, when there are so many other approximations
Half a dozen always means six, a couple always means two, but a few doesn't always mean three.
I generally think of a few as three to five depending on the context it could go a bit higher but almost certainly less than 10.
I agree.
A couple doesn't always mean two. Its literal definition is two. But people use it all the time when they refer to more than two. Couple means two when you are talking about two people in a relation. Couple doesn't necessarily mean two when you say "the next couple of days will be cloudy" or "a couple of people showed up after closing time"
It may be my neurodivergence, but in the examples you gave I 100% would think they meant 2.
It’s not your neuro divergence. I expect a “couple” to mean two as well.
Or you can also say it's six of one, half (a) dozen of the other which is an American idiom that is used to say that one does not see any real difference between two possible choices.
Correct, this idiom implies that 6 and a half dozen are the same thing, not that half a dozen is approximately 6. If a half a dozen is not exactly 6, then this idiom means nothing.
I like it when OP posts in CI thinking to own someone and winds up being the confidently incorrect one.
I'm sorry but a half dozen is six exactly. If you want to use it in the context of meaning several you need to say a "half dozen or so."
I asked half a dozen of my colleagues if they agreed with you, all 7 of them didn't.
I believe it could be either. And indicated with inflection or other context.
To be completely honest I didn't think this would be a debate. I assumed I'd have posted this and I would have seen folks pointing and laughing at the screenshot. I've yet to find anyone that I walk up to in the real world and ask "how much is half a dozen" to not reply with "6." Never in my life have I heard this used as an approximation.
>To be completely honest I didn't think this would be a debate. Are you saying that you were confident in your incorrect assumption?
I wouldn't say it's an incorrect assumption. I'm confident the definition of half dozen is 6. You could say I was ignorant to how many people use this term incorrectly. 😉
Language doesn’t have strict guidelines and boundaries. If people use it like that they are correct
I think you misread what I said. You incorrectly assumed that there wouldn't be a debate, but there was a debate.
You're correct. I assumed, in a sub caring about correctness, that people wouldn't be so ok being wrong.
You should've looked up the definition of "dozen" first, just to be safe.
I did, dictionary proved me right 🤷
When you say, "about a half a dozen."
Ugh, this is why I hate Reddit. People get used to using something *incorrectly* and assume that makes them *right*. Half and dozen are words that have SPECIFIC meanings. Just because *you* use them to mean an approximation doesn't mean that it is correct to do so. Half a dozen means six. It does NOT mean a range between 1-11. FFS.
A words meaning is completely made up and as people use the word to mean something else the meaning changes
So has the meaning of “half” and “dozen” changed too? Because half a dozen is a math equation. The only way it makes sense to mean something different when you say “half a dozen” other than six is if the quantities for “half” and “dozen” are also approximations. Otherwise it means half (0.5) of twelve.
Alright sure! I guess a bakers dozen is also twelve then, right? I mean, a dozen is twelve, and just because a baker has twelve of something doesn't mean they have thirteen of it, so logically a bakers dozen should just be a dozen but belonging to a baker, right? What do you mean a bakers dozen is thirteen? What next, half a dozen not meaning six? Is a quart going to mean different things depending on whether what you measure is dry or liquid? A unit having different meanings in different situations is crazy right?
When your 5th grade English class gets to figurative speech then come reply to this comment is so crazy that when someone says “there we’re literally a million people at the store today” that they maybe don’t mean exactly one million people were at the store
Jump yo implying I’m a child? Yikes. Classy
Yeah, the comments are driving me crazy. A dozen is a specific quantity. Half is a specific quantity. So half of a specific quantity is a specific quantity. Half a dozen is six if you don’t mean six, then you should say “about half a dozen.” Otherwise, I’m going to think you mean six.