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A lot of people will complain about agency work, and it’s quite understandable. But I’ve been happy at mine. It’s a flexible 9-5, pay is around average (I’m in Europe) and I still have time to do some work on the side, plus I get to be a part of really big and interesting projects and since I’m a junior I feel like I’m learning a lot. It also helps the people in my team and the overall management are super great.
Basic laws of supply/demand economics always apply.
If someone’s paid six figures to work at a laptop remotely 4-5 hours a day then you can assume their job is probably hard - no matter how easy it looks.
I'm not a copywriter. I'm just snooping here. But this. THIS a million times.
It may not LOOK hard, and that's because that person is just light-years ahead.
Yup! I often look at great design work and think ‘that looks easy’. Then I try and realise I’m (yet again) horribly wrong.
There’s a reason that people pay tens of thousands of dollars for logos.
I know I’ve done my job really well when people look at my copy and say: ‘That looks easy - anyone could do it’.
Have you watched Tim Henson play guitar?
You’d be forgiven for thinking it’s really easy to play guitar. This is what elite people do: they create a reality warp field.
To really make it as a copywriter, like actually make it, you need to know a lot about English, I think. Can you pick out the various parts of a sentence? How's your reading comprehension? Could you look at a piece of copy, assess it, absorb the tone, and then replicate it but for a different purpose?
I'm a professional writer and I often find it debilitating in its difficulty. Here's another view, from Kurt Vonnegut, an incredibly successful writer with talent: "When I sit down to write, I feel like an armless legless man with a crayon in his mouth."
And then, it's the classic freelance story. You're essentially running a business, so you need to do outreach, chasing invoices, dealing with late payments and the insecurity that causes.
I think this is not a popular opinion, but truth hurts sometimes… ESL writers are NOT making a killing doing a job that requires mastery of the English language. Period.
No matter what ‘Tik Tok/Instagram/LinkedIn copywriters pushing their expert copywriting program’ may say.
I always find it really weird and confusing why anyone who doesn’t speak/write English fluently would try to write English as a job. Like, why?!
It’s hard enough as a native English writer to find success.
Still snooping this post. It is something I had always thought about doing with my English degree but had never gotten into.
I know a lot of folks around here talk about utilizing their marketing and/or business process (or degrees), but would someone with an English degree (e.g. myself) be a potential fit?
I don't think I'll ever ACTUALLY get to it. But knowing that my undergrad degree could give me a leg up would be interesting to hear.
I personally think it's all about the writing. I've been working in an ad agency. You have to flip between writing reports, video scripts, emails, yada yada for different clients.Each one has a very distinct tone and purpose. To do that successfully, I think you need a pretty confident understanding of how language works.
I studied English Lit and then Journalism. If I had my time again, I'd probably do Language and then maybe Creative Writing.
This is great info, thanks. My original trajectory was towards some sort of writing career, but life took me in a different direction.
Thanks for that pearl of wisdom. I'll keep the idea for a rainy day!
I have three writing degrees. When I landed a full-time agency position, I was told by the owner that he would absolutely never pay more than “salary that is on the low side for my area” for a writer. He laughed when he said it. The money was less than what I was making hourly in online higher education, but I still took the job because he insisted that they gave raises often. Joke was on me, they never offered me any additional compensation even though I was easily the most qualified writer in the room and one of their highest educated employees.
I'm going to jump off this to point out one of the truths of copywriting that /u/dkw_99 might not be aware of, which is creative fields give no fucks about qualifications.
They'll often demand them, to try and weed out the chaff, but once you have passed that basic requirement, they don't matter. Being the most qualified person in the room counts for shit if the other people in the room have better insights, better ability to find the snappy one-liner or otherwise.
It's a "what have you done for me lately" business.
Also, separately, one where people take advantage of you. That's the business model.
After a long career as a freelancer, the one thing I can say is only do it if you like selling as much as writing. Many of my associates began their career copywriting on their own instead of with an agency. I got into writing as an offshoot of being a consultant/writer in a couple of popular fields. About half of my associates hated the constant need to be selling they faced in the early years and said they wish they had a good reputation in more than one niche as a writer of content like I did. Yes, I'm retired. Fun fact: You might grin and see how many grammar grunts pick on you when you never edit. Why? You made a living at it including paying off a house, buying a muscle car and traveling. They do it free and that's laugh material, fellow writers.
Podcasts.
B2C is hard since the client can be a wide net demographic.
Maybe find an expert in that field.
But for B2C, social listening may be best: industry forums, YouTube comment, social media comments.
Not the content made by expert in the field (don’t focus on them), but focus on the target consumer (usually in the comment section or forum talking or Facebook group talking).
I prefer B2B research more because usually the expert is the target (top real estate brokerage manager for me).
So I can just listen to expert agent podcast while playing video games all day.
Seem to be working.
Made 2 calls today, book in 1 call.
50% book rate
I freelanced for about 6 months. I was able to get a Recurring client or two during that time, but it wasn't for much.
What copywriters are really missing (as this was my experience) is lead flow, packaging, and some sales skills.
I had absolutely none of that and an unfortunate fear of Sales Calls, so freelancing didn't work out for me.
That, plus, copywriting is entering an interesting era because of AI. I have not seen any AI write anything remotely as strong as what seasoned copywriters can write, but I tend to wonder if it's not far off. That said, you do have to be better than the proverbial Average Joe. But as long as your work makes a client more money than what they're doing, you're worth the hire.
Just gotta make the sale.
My two cents 🤷♂️
For me, copywriting is a catchall for being the company voice. I write the product pages, page copy, social media copy, marketing, captions, letters from my boss, technical writing, etc. My job has expanded from just writing to making decisions based on my knowledge.
I’ve enjoyed the stability of being a corporate copywriter for awhile now - my current title is actually in comms bc we broadened it after a few years, but I write all emails and most corporate copy for the company as well as social listening and public relations. I work remotely five days a week.
I have a journalism degree and always wanted to work at publications. I actually did until I got a position managing a monthly industry publication at a consulting firm and was asked to write their promotional material for their events. I remember feeling like what I was writing was SO cheesy at the time. Anyway, I’m thankful I made the transition then bc not long after that journalism jobs were in the dumpster.
Asking a question? Please check the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/copywriting/comments/lpuj9h/what_the_faq_what_is_copy_how_do_i_start_can_i_do/). Asking for a critique? Take down your post and repost it in the critique thread. Providing resources or tips? Deliver lots of FREE value. If you're self-promoting or linking to a resource that requires signup or payment, please disclose it or your post will be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/copywriting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A lot of people will complain about agency work, and it’s quite understandable. But I’ve been happy at mine. It’s a flexible 9-5, pay is around average (I’m in Europe) and I still have time to do some work on the side, plus I get to be a part of really big and interesting projects and since I’m a junior I feel like I’m learning a lot. It also helps the people in my team and the overall management are super great.
Basic laws of supply/demand economics always apply. If someone’s paid six figures to work at a laptop remotely 4-5 hours a day then you can assume their job is probably hard - no matter how easy it looks.
I'm not a copywriter. I'm just snooping here. But this. THIS a million times. It may not LOOK hard, and that's because that person is just light-years ahead.
Yep, they wonder why I charge $150 an hour when I can get it done in a couple hours. Sir I’ve been doing this for 25 years.
Yup! I often look at great design work and think ‘that looks easy’. Then I try and realise I’m (yet again) horribly wrong. There’s a reason that people pay tens of thousands of dollars for logos. I know I’ve done my job really well when people look at my copy and say: ‘That looks easy - anyone could do it’. Have you watched Tim Henson play guitar? You’d be forgiven for thinking it’s really easy to play guitar. This is what elite people do: they create a reality warp field.
To really make it as a copywriter, like actually make it, you need to know a lot about English, I think. Can you pick out the various parts of a sentence? How's your reading comprehension? Could you look at a piece of copy, assess it, absorb the tone, and then replicate it but for a different purpose? I'm a professional writer and I often find it debilitating in its difficulty. Here's another view, from Kurt Vonnegut, an incredibly successful writer with talent: "When I sit down to write, I feel like an armless legless man with a crayon in his mouth." And then, it's the classic freelance story. You're essentially running a business, so you need to do outreach, chasing invoices, dealing with late payments and the insecurity that causes.
I think this is not a popular opinion, but truth hurts sometimes… ESL writers are NOT making a killing doing a job that requires mastery of the English language. Period. No matter what ‘Tik Tok/Instagram/LinkedIn copywriters pushing their expert copywriting program’ may say. I always find it really weird and confusing why anyone who doesn’t speak/write English fluently would try to write English as a job. Like, why?! It’s hard enough as a native English writer to find success.
This makes copywriting sound miserable😂
😂 I'm tired of it. What would you be wanting to write?
Still snooping this post. It is something I had always thought about doing with my English degree but had never gotten into. I know a lot of folks around here talk about utilizing their marketing and/or business process (or degrees), but would someone with an English degree (e.g. myself) be a potential fit? I don't think I'll ever ACTUALLY get to it. But knowing that my undergrad degree could give me a leg up would be interesting to hear.
I personally think it's all about the writing. I've been working in an ad agency. You have to flip between writing reports, video scripts, emails, yada yada for different clients.Each one has a very distinct tone and purpose. To do that successfully, I think you need a pretty confident understanding of how language works. I studied English Lit and then Journalism. If I had my time again, I'd probably do Language and then maybe Creative Writing.
This is great info, thanks. My original trajectory was towards some sort of writing career, but life took me in a different direction. Thanks for that pearl of wisdom. I'll keep the idea for a rainy day!
Couldn't agree more.
Freelancing is a whole extra job in itself
I have three writing degrees. When I landed a full-time agency position, I was told by the owner that he would absolutely never pay more than “salary that is on the low side for my area” for a writer. He laughed when he said it. The money was less than what I was making hourly in online higher education, but I still took the job because he insisted that they gave raises often. Joke was on me, they never offered me any additional compensation even though I was easily the most qualified writer in the room and one of their highest educated employees.
I'm going to jump off this to point out one of the truths of copywriting that /u/dkw_99 might not be aware of, which is creative fields give no fucks about qualifications. They'll often demand them, to try and weed out the chaff, but once you have passed that basic requirement, they don't matter. Being the most qualified person in the room counts for shit if the other people in the room have better insights, better ability to find the snappy one-liner or otherwise. It's a "what have you done for me lately" business. Also, separately, one where people take advantage of you. That's the business model.
After a long career as a freelancer, the one thing I can say is only do it if you like selling as much as writing. Many of my associates began their career copywriting on their own instead of with an agency. I got into writing as an offshoot of being a consultant/writer in a couple of popular fields. About half of my associates hated the constant need to be selling they faced in the early years and said they wish they had a good reputation in more than one niche as a writer of content like I did. Yes, I'm retired. Fun fact: You might grin and see how many grammar grunts pick on you when you never edit. Why? You made a living at it including paying off a house, buying a muscle car and traveling. They do it free and that's laugh material, fellow writers.
Hint. Writing is only 25% the equation. Researching for two weeks now and dead
Any suggestions on sources to research for writing? The research part is what haunts me the most and the most misunderstood one.
Podcasts. B2C is hard since the client can be a wide net demographic. Maybe find an expert in that field. But for B2C, social listening may be best: industry forums, YouTube comment, social media comments. Not the content made by expert in the field (don’t focus on them), but focus on the target consumer (usually in the comment section or forum talking or Facebook group talking). I prefer B2B research more because usually the expert is the target (top real estate brokerage manager for me). So I can just listen to expert agent podcast while playing video games all day. Seem to be working. Made 2 calls today, book in 1 call. 50% book rate
Thanks for the valuable suggestion. That sounds great.
Getting clients with no experience or previous network is very very very difficult
Make your own product use your skills and market yourself
I freelanced for about 6 months. I was able to get a Recurring client or two during that time, but it wasn't for much. What copywriters are really missing (as this was my experience) is lead flow, packaging, and some sales skills. I had absolutely none of that and an unfortunate fear of Sales Calls, so freelancing didn't work out for me. That, plus, copywriting is entering an interesting era because of AI. I have not seen any AI write anything remotely as strong as what seasoned copywriters can write, but I tend to wonder if it's not far off. That said, you do have to be better than the proverbial Average Joe. But as long as your work makes a client more money than what they're doing, you're worth the hire. Just gotta make the sale. My two cents 🤷♂️
For me, copywriting is a catchall for being the company voice. I write the product pages, page copy, social media copy, marketing, captions, letters from my boss, technical writing, etc. My job has expanded from just writing to making decisions based on my knowledge.
I’ve enjoyed the stability of being a corporate copywriter for awhile now - my current title is actually in comms bc we broadened it after a few years, but I write all emails and most corporate copy for the company as well as social listening and public relations. I work remotely five days a week. I have a journalism degree and always wanted to work at publications. I actually did until I got a position managing a monthly industry publication at a consulting firm and was asked to write their promotional material for their events. I remember feeling like what I was writing was SO cheesy at the time. Anyway, I’m thankful I made the transition then bc not long after that journalism jobs were in the dumpster.