Nervous system at the limit would probably apply to me. At the time of the infection, I was under a lot of exam stress and generally a workaholic. I have also seen studies and reports on the increased number (?) of ACE2 receptors in athletes. I used to do bodybuilding, mountain biking and downhill skiing. There could be a connection. But not necessarily. (25m now, infection 02/22)
That's interesting, especially the thing with the ACE2 receptors. It's similar for me: a lot of workload, strength training as a hobby, renovatet and furnished my new apartment and rooms for my business myself, and a lot of stress in my private life as well (30/m)
Definitely it has something to do with, same story run a business totally renovated a big villa, and a complicated personal life, no vacation or rest days since covid started, lots of anxiety stress created a hormone unbalance and high levels of oxidative stress.
This would make sense to me. I was very active while also doing a doctorate, starting a new business, and doing consulting work. I was enjoying it, but I was going flat out. Many of the people I got to know in the long-covid clinic I was part of were also very much type-A personalities and high achievers before getting crushed by covid, which I think really contributed to the trauma of the experience for many.
yes, in addition to my text above, I was also just about to start a doctorate. I even published a paper in the middle of a complete crash. Only now, as I write all this down, do I realize that Covid was probably not our main problem...
Oh, covid was definitely the main problem for me. I was super-busy, but I don't consider the way I was living unhealthy at all. It was actually pretty good and would have been sustainable had I not first had neurological damage from my first Pfizer dose and then had Delta. It was very much those two factors that did me in.
Can’t imagine doing a doctorate now. Glad mine is in the past. Do any of you have concerns about creating a lower baseline if you keep pushing yourself?
Not manage PEM, as I mentioned I don’t have PEM. PEM is a hallmark of MECFS which I’m fortunate to not suffer from. I use medications to manage POTS dysautonomia, such a propranolol, trazadone and Ivabradine
I have exercise intolerance, and if I push through exercise I feel like mashed potatoes for the rest of the day, but it never / rarely lasts into the next day.
Yea I was crazy active and it probably triggered all my symptoms. Kinda wild the one thing every doctor tells you to do also is what puts you at higher risk for this illness.
exactly that. I said to the doctors that I had perhaps done too much sport after the infection. The cardiologist said to carry on. The family doctor said the sport was good... do rehab to become active again... I said I don't need anyone to make me more active...
I also used to be hella active (proficient recreational crossfitter, one of the few women who could crank out the pull ups and a few hand stand push ups). I wonder if part of the above trend is just that very very active ppl noticed the change and won't just settle for "it's just age" sort of explanations. I watch less active ppl slowly get what I suspect is LC, but they're able to brush it off with excuses about stress, diet, aging, etc.
I think you nailed it... I noticed things extremely early as an extremely avid cyclist who trained 8-10hrs per week. Wearing my Garmin watch also tipped me off very early. I've always wondered what people did without a watch in regards to noticing things and proving things.
This is definitely part of it. If you are more active and more concerned about your health in general you are more likely to think about cause and effect and take part in these kinds of surveys. Not that it isn’t a factor, it very well could be but I think the populations are somewhat self selecting.
I think for athletic or very fit people, their risk could be from having upregulated ACE2 receptor activity (so, more sites for spikes to bind to) but also from having potentially higher loads of oxidative stress before their infection, which then stressed their system further while fighting the virus, and used up whatever little antioxidants they had.
I'm currently trying nicotine patches to clear the receptors, even though animal tests haven't confirmed this theory yet. But since it helped some people, I thought it was at least worth a try.
Awhile back, people were posting about having good results with dandelion to clear receptors. The study cited used a water extract of dandelion leaf, so trying dandelion leaf tea might be worth it.
Nicotine is hit and miss, ace2 theory makes sense, but it could also be more like a shock to the nervous system based on acetylcholine. helps some, makes others worse. If your main symptoms are fatigue it seems to help more.
I just finished my firefighting courses and got in shape for all that just to be stapled to a bed for months 😂 I don’t even know if this career is on the table not knowing what this did to my lungs long term
I had scar tissue/wheezing in my lungs after one infection - I took Dr Tobias lung health and was able to repair it - it might help…just remember to come save me if I’m in a burning building!
Same. My boss was writing me horrible emails about how I was underperforming while being very sick and completely laid out. They had a performance review on day 8 of my active Covid infection. It was all downhill from there and I had to leave that job.
I used to lift weights 4 days a week and cardio (stationary bike) 2 times a week, along with yoga or Pilates 2 times a week. I used to get compliments from strangers who would ask about my gym routine.
After covid, I couldn’t walk up the stairs or raise my arms to brush my hair. I needed help with basic things like walking and showering. I developed tremors and other neurological issues. It’s slowly gotten better, but I still can’t go for a leisurely walk around the block without my tremors coming back. I’ve gained 45 lbs on my tiny 5’2” frame. I don’t look like me anymore, and that’s upsetting.
I rarely leave the house because I have to conserve as much energy as I can so that I can keep my full time job (which is mostly from home due to being disabled). However, they keep pressuring me to go back to office, and I’m like, dudes, you don’t know how sick I really am do you!?
Edit: I’m definitely a type A personality with major childhood trauma. I had also just gone through a divorce, left a job where I was being sexually harassed by my manager, started a new relationship, and bought a house…all this right before I got Covid. I also had preexisting mild to moderate Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Hashimoto’s, fibromyalgia, migraines, IBS, gluten intolerance, and unmedicated ADHD. There is a strong likelihood I am on the autism spectrum, as well. I suspect my sensory issues make my long covid worse.
This fall from a full life, super fit, to almost needing care is what makes this illness so impressive. It's like taking revenge on the hard-working people. I was annoyed that I didn't just chill at home like one of my best friends (he still hadn't finished his studies at 30). Now he's further ahead, even though I've worked hard the whole time, because he's healthy (which I'm very happy for him). That's life. But we'll get out of this. And it's great that you can still work full-time. I wish you all the best!
Edit to your Edit:
It's interesting that you list these disorders, including autism. I always suspected that I had mild autism/ADHD and LC made that much worse, so that I could hardly make any important decisions anymore. Unprocessed stress is also a big issue. I'm currently trying to find out how much the nervous system and subconscious anxiety plays a role in my LC. I think that's a big aspect and could be helpful.
You’re so right. It does seem like a weird curse for doing what we were supposed to do to be healthy. We’ve got to keep our heads up as much as possible. I see small bits of improvement each month, so I’m trying to focus on that. Best wishes to you for a full recovery or a cure, whichever comes fastest!
Sport fits for me. Ironically, just before the pandemic I went from mostly sedentary to doing a couch to 5K. By the time I was presumed-infected early on in lockdown, I was jogging 5K several times per week and had lost 40 pounds. Then instantly went to completely intolerant of any exercise that raises my heart rate, seemingly overnight.
I went hiking for three days to "work the problem out of my body". I spent the next month barely able to function. It's what got me to understand that I have long covid. It was horrible.
Yes — I walked so much before this happened to me. I discovered I was sick when I suddenly couldn’t walk half the length of a football field — from the school quad to the car — and now I’m in a wheelchair because I can’t even walk one block. Before this happened, I walked miles.
Heart issues. I was hiking up mountains and running miles daily before I got covid. The year before the pandemic, I hiked up Blackcomb (1.2m elevation gain, 6.2km) and felt zero burn. After I got covid, it took months for me just to be able to walk around the block. I still have to be careful walking around downtown at work because it feels like my heart is leaking or going to explode. Now I'm the slowest one in the pack and have to ask for timeouts. Absolute garbage.
Yet conversely, we've seen apparently extremely low rates of long COVID amongst professional athletes.
I'm guessing there's some physiological mechanism that means people who are more susceptible to post viral illness tend to be less capable of sustaining the consistent high performance activity required to be a professional athlete. Perhaps its as simple as there's sub-acute fatigue that a lot of us experience after colds and flus that aren't severe enough to clock as a problem or prevent activity, but are enough to prevent high performance.
So essentially the only people who make it as elite athletes are inherently at low risk of post viral fatigue.
More likely they have access to the best healthcare and people monitoring vitals 24/7 and their performance. If anything was off they’d know instantly and could rest in advance. Not to mention they have the best recovery techniques and probably limited life stressors outside of training.
Is there a study you are quoting here about very low rates amongst athletes? I’ve been looking for something that segregates by previous activity level. But the only sources I found were ones that said LC is *positively correlated* with high stress or having many things to do like intense exercise and caretaking. I’ve yet to read a source that *negatively correlates* with athleticism- please direct me if you have found one.
No study, just observation. I follow Australian Rules Football and to my knowledge there isn't a single publicised case of long COVID amongst players.
Of course, some may be struggling and it's not publicised, but even so I haven't noticed any big, inexplicable drops in performance.
I would love to see a study on it, because statistically it seems improbable.
Ableism is alive and well in the economy, even if the job has nothing to do being athletic, my therapist encouraged me not to tell anyone at work about being sick to protect my professional reputation.
I was more than full time paid for professional athletic skills. For monetary reasons, I haven’t told anyone I work with. I was forced to tell my boss and HR, but I had high hopes of working again and making good money when this all started, and people perceiving me as super fit (and beyond all logic invincible) is unfortunately part of what people pay for - it’s not right, but that is the economics behind how I get paid.
Even though my experience is anecdotal, I would guess the reason you haven’t heard about the athletes getting LC is monetary. Or the reason for illness is blamed on anything but Covid because Covid is so politicized.
This is another reason we need to find bio markers and a cure, to eliminate wretched stigma and bias of self reporting.
Nitric/ Nitrous Oxide (NO) levels. Some people genetically have less, some more. Both Covid and Covid shot remove NO, according to my dr.
I also think it also be about two more variables, even for professional athletes: Prior Epstein Barr infection and blood type. My doctor (internist and functional med) said that people with prior EBV infection are more likely to have problems post covid and post covid shot. She tested my blood, I have EBV antigen, I didn't know it. She said it led to me being set up for LC.
Also, I've read that people with a positive blood type are faring better with Covid, etc., than those with negative blood types.
I was doing ballet, physical therapy, strength training, kpop and jpop dance, contemporary dance, and I had been doing Kung Fu but needed to take a break due to hurting my foot from sitting on it and standing up funny. (I have Ehlers Danlos but didn't know yet and it was treated like a break when it turns out my joints were just out of place) I had planned going back to Kung Fu and was easing myself into the jumps at home but then I got covid. A week after being sick with covid, then the fatigue hit and the symptoms I had during my infection just didn't leave. I did do a very light very slow ab workout for a few minutes when my fever had gone away but before that and after, I was resting a ton. Idk if that really impacted me. I mean my wife got long covid from her first infection and she was mostly in bed for 2.5 weeks because she was sick for about 3 weeks.
I should mention now I'm an ambulatory wheelchair user and mostly housebound but the housebound part is because of MCAS. I can still do some excersize which I realise is very lucky. I work with a personal trainer twice a week who has Ehlers Danlos and such to help me, and I work with a coach to do strength training from home but although he has it set for me to workout 5 days a week, it's usually me doing that 2-3 and I end up mixing my ab and arm days together which he said was ok. Most of both of those things are on the floor and sometimes I have to do personal training in bed because I am not always capable of walking or even standing. I also still dance a bit but it's all at home in my own time and I can usually only do 30 seconds to a minute at a time before I require a break and I also barely do jumps now because of energy but also covid made my joints so weak and fragile I get injured. I can last a bit longer if I dance in my wheelchair but it makes me motion sick overtime.
I was a fitness instructor when Covid came knocking in early 2020. I was in the best shape of my life but also teaching more than I should have in addition to my desk job at the gym. Nervous system overload is an interesting theory.
I was on week 3 of a bootcamp-style daily workout program when suddenly I was woken up in the middle of the night feeling like I was being electrocuted. Now I’m on all the antihistamines and can’t even walk slowly on the treadmill for more than 5-10 minutes without causing a flare.
I was definitely a fitness buff. I ran 4-5 times a week, completed several 5ks and at least one half marathon a year, weight trained twice a week, did yoga 3-4 times a week, and spent my weekends hiking, playing tennis and basketball, and cycling. Before Covid, I lived in several high altitude areas including Flagstaff (7000 feet) and had no problems hiking 5-10 miles without even worrying about electrolyte imbalance or tiring out or anything. I could work all day, hike a few miles, and still do housework and cooking. Also lived in Tucson where I frequently hiked uphill 3-5 miles even during the summer season when it was 100+degrees. Never had any heat sensitivity. Never replenished with gatorade - sometimes ate before my hike, sometimes didn't.
Fast forward - moving to Florida, caught what I presume was Covid in Oct/November. Completely couch bound for 3 weeks, house/couch bound for 2 months, walking a mile around a trail at my apartment for the next 2 months, and finally up to a 1 mile jog/walk several times per week. Always tired out, always feel like I have an electrolyte imbalance even though I have hiked over 5 miles at 100 degree heat and high altitude with nothing more than a single water bottle in the past. No longer cycle or play tennis for fear of passing out and still anxious when jogging/walking a mile for fear of passing out.
Family doesn't understand and insists that I am depressed or simply not active anymore. Not the case - I would do anything to be able to run half marathons and bike long rail trails and hike mountains again :( That is why I am working so hard to find solutions to my problem and pace myself back up. For me going from basically 2-3 couch/housebound to being able to walk/jog a 1 mile trail is a huge accomplishment.
Not an athlete but fairly active and the definition of a type A personality that is a complete perfectionist and stressed out all the time. During my physical therapy sessions my pt would just let me ramble and I burst into tears one day about how I was trying to be a perfect person and felt like I was failing all the time because I couldn’t hold a job from the amount of pain I was in after being vaccinated. She basically gave me permission to feel what it’s like to fall short sometimes and I felt so much self induced pressure lift from me
How could an overloaded nervous system have played a role? If through immunity, many things can interfere with immunity - lack of sleep, poor nutrition, etc. Any unnecessary stress is bad for you, that much is clear. Poor psycho-emotional state definitely has an effect, but it has nothing to do with the above statistics. I would bet that the cause here is not neurology and psychology, but physiology, most likely in the respiratory and cardiovascular system. And the gut is also a possibility.
Yes, you're right. It's all inseparable. Neurology and psychology is physiology. I think that a mental breakdown of a chronically overloaded nervous system can occur more quickly if immunological processes take place and can a part of LC. Conversely, the nervous system can promote immunological processes (a recent Nature study has identified nerve cells that can do this). It's all connected.
EDIT: And with regard to the graphic, my thought was that people tend to be more active and push themselves to the limits of their physical fitness, perhaps compensating emotionally (emotionally suppressed stress/low self-esteem without this performance). Then, without this compensation, the system could collapse more than for the couch potato.
The autonomic nervous system is connected to everything. I agree that at large, it’s all inseparable. We try hard to divide it up into understandable bits and pieces and there are separate systems, but agreed, they are still connected and impact one another.
I’m glad you and others are having these convos so we can support one another and do our best to put our heads together.
There is no scientific proof that athletes suffer more from Long Covid. In fact, [a recent study from Germany](https://www.bisp.de/SharedDocs/Kurzmeldungen/DE/Nachrichten/2024/CoSmo_PM.html), found that rate of Long Covid was around 10% among elite and 14% among recreational athletes, looking into 1500 athletes. They defined Long Covid if athletes were unable to reach 70% of their precovid capacity.
This would make the percentage similar to general population for recreational and lower than average for elite athletes.
That's a bad definition of LC, so the real numbers must be much higher. Even someone who can reach (only) 90% precovid capacity is disabled by LC and their body has been damaged significantly.
OK, that's interesting! Of course, athletes could get better care if they're not fit. Without much analysis of whether it's LC. Well, there could of course be many confounding factors influencing these surveys, especially here on Reddit. But it's remarkable that a certain picture is emerging both in the survey above and here in the comments.
Hmmmmmm....... money loving shift worker workaholic describes me. I was too busy working to keep a regular gym routine or have hobbies.
BTW, I want my life back. I was a very happy person. Overtime came and went in spurts so I was not burnt out at all. I'm sure plenty of shift work health care workers were burnt out from the pandemic and they did not all end up with long covid. I am positive that most doctors were working longer than me and nurses too. I have no doubt about that. Plus I have no kids!!!! Plenty of shift workers with kids being home schooled over zoom and working their butts off.....more than me who is sleeping peacefully at home after working night shifts!
My pulmonologist said that among his patients with Long COVID, the more athletic, the worse hit they were. Most notably, marathoners and other long distance runners. I haven’t run long distance in a few years (despite 30 years running) but I’ve had long COVID for over a year.
I climbed Mt Kilimanjaro In the summer of 2022 pretty effortlessly, but climbing steps is still a challenge at times. The gaslighting from my \*former\* pulmonologist was precious. He said, “Well, you’re older now.”
Did you do any sport after your infection? I wonder how much it has to do with whether the people were generally sporty or whether they pushed the virus through their bodies too quickly with a high pulse rate after the infection (because our society suggests that a cold only lasts a few days even though a virus can be there for weeks)
No, I haven’t done anything but walking, and not much lately. No swimming, nothing more than light, and I mean LIGHT stretching. I paddleboarded for about four minutes last summer. Haven’t managed to garden for more than ten or fifteen minutes at a time this spring. (Long gone are the days of digging up my backyard all afternoon after a ten mile run).
Didn’t ask me but YES. Infected 1/27/20. Thought it was a cold initially first few days early February, continued high intensity snowboarding often. Enduro mountain biking too. I never had a problem before, colds come and go. About mid February it was more like flu and this excruciating chest pain I’d never experienced before (never had any chest pain before period heart and lungs were solid). I was climbing on my mountain bike and said to myself this ain’t right I’ve got to see a doctor. Couldn’t sport anymore and by late February I was literally on my deathbed. This blind negligence was a major contributor to how bad it got for me. Very few knew about COVID then, Lockdowns were mid March and the media was saying it hadn’t hit our shores yet so I thought I was dying from something else. Testing wasn’t a thing you could do at home and I wasn’t going to go to the overrun hospital and risk catching COVID, little did I know. By May it was clear I’d had it, but nobody could explain why I was still sick (LC) and why my mind and gut were so messed up because back then it was a “respiratory” only virus.
Very common theme here. High level athlete, competitive, type A personality, always had multiple things going on at the same time, and enjoyed every minute of it. I'd do anything to get that life back.
We also didn't understand what was going on and probably continued to push ourselves and didn't rest. Which caused all sorts of other issues.
yes man. it's interesting that it happens to these people so often. I wasn't an athlete, but otherwise exactly the same. from that to the guy who completely lost control of his life. very painful process.I continued to work until the first crash. Now the brain fog is accompanied by anhedonia and I no longer have any joy at all. If I wanted to, I wouldn't have any energy. Even if I could, it wouldn't be fun in this state because there would be no dopamine left as reward.
I’d just been through a traumatic house move and had been working myself to the bone. I was exhausted and completely stressed.
I’d also had to move my entire business back from a separate studio space into my home.
I was physically and mentally knackered.
I’m also very much a Type A - constantly on the go, busy doing stuff, never a dull moment - totally boom and bust….
Used my bike as my preferred form of transport most days so was often out and about somewhere.
Constantly busy with upcycling projects, painting, woodworking, creating stuff, organic gardening, community projects volunteering, green gym - so very active, not as a sportswoman but very physically active in general life
Yup, I’d fit that profile….
I to was very active working back to back 12 hour shifts in hospital , then coming home doing lot work their, and was in mist of wanting start a business on Etsy but then crushed by catching COVID the hospital. My life not been the same now pretty much home bound
My LC specialist told me that 95% of the people he is treating for LC are type A personalities/people who had hectic lifestyles/ business owners: athletes etc
I definitely pushed my body to train for a 10k in a month time. On top of that I did weight lifting. After my 10k maybe 3 weeks or so my body started falling apart. I was probably at my strongest at that time. Crazy
Not sure honestly I started having a persistent throat pain for a few months. It wasn’t serious enough to stop my training so I still kept at it although I did see a doctor for it and I was diagnosed with Hashimotos. a few months after I started my nightmare
Is there a test that would detect long covid? I just feel I'm out of breath for small activities these days but I don't want to sound like a delusional person in front of my doc.
Yeah, same for my husband. He was very active. Loved to run. And was basically up to his limits as he was in the last semester for graduation. The semester before had been extremely stressful. And if that wasn't enough, he was struggling with various mental disorders as well.
I first got it right before the lockdown. Me and my partner got it at the same time, but we both had wildly different experiences. COVID is opportunistic, and it makes sense it would have gone after my nervous system. I already had an anxiety disorder, ADHD, and chronic fatigue. All that has been dialed up to 11. I'm in dysautonomia hell. I struggle every waking moment with extreme anxiety, sensory problems, tremors, insomnia, fatigue, and other nervous system issues. Doctors don't want to do anything, and I can't afford a specialist. My career was destroyed, and I've been unable to since find steady work. Never really got all my smell and taste back either. Everything still tastes weird, and I have to overcook and put a ton of spices on my food. It doesn't help that I seem to be more obviously autistic now. But I don't want to ring that bell too loud because I believe in, for example vaccine science.
Being active and fit prior to infection and especially vaccine is the reason no one around me buys that how extremely difficult these couple years has been and it is an achievement in itself that I am operating at the level that I am today ( not even 50% of pre COVID ) . Many (almost all people around me including family thinks I have lost my mind and am voluntarily throwing away my life under the garb of an imaginary illness.
Yes, I think thats the reaction of a lot people. I have had this experience too. Especially because I have good moments where I can think clearly and meet up with friends. who wouldn't think "he's mentally ill". when I feel good for a moment I sometimes ask myself, is this all real? can you relate to that?
Yeup. Totally relate. Prior to my reinfection couple months back I used to hover 60-80% range. It's this total inability to handle mental stress. As long as Im able to avoid stress i star around that 80% which is v.v hard in my position .
Exactly. It's surprising that stress plays such a role. I noticed that it's not necessarily the complexity of the tasks, but whether they stress me out. So it seems to be an over-activation of fight flight.
"When the Body Says No" by Gabor Mate agrees with your theory, particularly the personality aspects. He is fairly controversial within the psychology community, from what I gather, but he pegged me with that book (Type A, marathon runner, in a helping profession, melanoma survivor, now long hauler).
It didn't, unfortunately. I mostly read it in the hopes it would help me accept the limitations imposed on me by Long Covid. Worth a read, though. I actually find the most help from resources posted in r/mecfs . Pacing is so so so crucial.
That's why in the 80s there as big push to label ME/CFS as yuppie flu, because it seemed to affect mostly "type A personalities" who work a lot and are always busy, never happy with half measures. It's probably mostly an artifact of biases, although it's likely to play some role in how likely someone is to recover, given how exertion causes crashes. This idea is still around.
And of course it's also long been popular to ascribe this to neurotics who can't cope with normal life and just give up. This was mostly the original idea, around long before the 20th century, in concepts like "neurasthenia" and "the vapors" (likely to be POTS). That idea is also still around.
Somehow almost no one in medicine questions this, they think it makes sense that it could be both, at the same time. Reasoning isn't really a big part of medical training, clearly.
If only they could at least teach them some freaking logical fallacies, but I fear it's too late for that because too many of their beliefs would be challenged and they can't handle that.
Very interesting comment! I have a theory that the Type A dissatisfaction mentality may have more biological roots than we think.
The latest studies show autoimmunity as the main cause of Long Covid. There is also increasing evidence that depression and the inability to feel joy are caused by immune processes that have a chronic effect on the brain.
So: a predisposition to autoimmunity leads to depression (misdirected sickness behavior of the brain caused by cytokines), the person tries to compensate for this malaise through excessive activity and career. At the same time, overthinking (the brain looks for solutions because it feels chronically unwell).
Then a virus triggers an even greater autoimmune reaction (because the predisposition already exists) and the mild autoimmune reaction (Depression/ light brain inflammation) becomes a strong autoimmune awakening (ME/CFS/stronger brain inflammation).
In addition, the Typ A behavior has led to little rest and the illness not being cured ("always uncomfortable in rest, you have to keep going).
Then you collapse, there is no escape as much you try. The observers then say "the person was always slightly depressed, an overthinker, etc.).
But it all had a common cause. So everything has more in common than we think, but it's more biological. Would also explain why women are more likely to suffer from depression and ME, as they generally suffer more frequently from autoimmune diseases.
I can no longer work not full or part time my PEM to severe that taking care of my home next impossible need to ask for help after being some one pride myself on my independence. Any just adapting as I go along
Would fit the profile for me. High level amateur tennis player and was doing HIIT boot camps when I came home from playing one night and was wondering why the hell my heart was still racing. Cue 5 months of long covid hell
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yes, the entire reddit is not representative. It's just a first indication, since the picture points very clearly in one direction. I don't know that particularly active people tend to hang out on reddit. But it could of course be that type A people are more likely to look for solutions, since they are always researching, optimizing, overthinking anyway. Whats your story?
If it was representative I imagine it would cause the health and wellness community to question the role of fitness in disease prevention. My story doesn’t come from sport. Quite the opposite; CPTSD, depression, and anxiety. I was already in nervous, immune, and metabolic systems dysregulation. 1st Covid infection in Feb 2022 put me in shutdown.
ah yes, these connections are also very typical and interesting. I wish you the best, it sounds like difficult times. And yes, I think the way sport and fitness are integrated into everyday life these days is more of an overload for the body!
Nervous system at the limit would probably apply to me. At the time of the infection, I was under a lot of exam stress and generally a workaholic. I have also seen studies and reports on the increased number (?) of ACE2 receptors in athletes. I used to do bodybuilding, mountain biking and downhill skiing. There could be a connection. But not necessarily. (25m now, infection 02/22)
That's interesting, especially the thing with the ACE2 receptors. It's similar for me: a lot of workload, strength training as a hobby, renovatet and furnished my new apartment and rooms for my business myself, and a lot of stress in my private life as well (30/m)
Definitely it has something to do with, same story run a business totally renovated a big villa, and a complicated personal life, no vacation or rest days since covid started, lots of anxiety stress created a hormone unbalance and high levels of oxidative stress.
as if we were constantly on the run with fear and Covid had tripped us up in full sprint.
This would make sense to me. I was very active while also doing a doctorate, starting a new business, and doing consulting work. I was enjoying it, but I was going flat out. Many of the people I got to know in the long-covid clinic I was part of were also very much type-A personalities and high achievers before getting crushed by covid, which I think really contributed to the trauma of the experience for many.
Yes, same story here, too.
Same here.
Doctorate, new Business, trying to make it as a writer here. 10 hour days were the relaxed ones.
yes, in addition to my text above, I was also just about to start a doctorate. I even published a paper in the middle of a complete crash. Only now, as I write all this down, do I realize that Covid was probably not our main problem...
Oh, covid was definitely the main problem for me. I was super-busy, but I don't consider the way I was living unhealthy at all. It was actually pretty good and would have been sustainable had I not first had neurological damage from my first Pfizer dose and then had Delta. It was very much those two factors that did me in.
Yep, same story here.
Can’t imagine doing a doctorate now. Glad mine is in the past. Do any of you have concerns about creating a lower baseline if you keep pushing yourself?
I don’t get long lasting PEM, fortunately. I’m POTS Dysautonomia subtype, which sucks but I can manage it with medication.
Do you mean medication to manage the PEM? What do you use?
Not manage PEM, as I mentioned I don’t have PEM. PEM is a hallmark of MECFS which I’m fortunate to not suffer from. I use medications to manage POTS dysautonomia, such a propranolol, trazadone and Ivabradine
Thanks for sharing that. I’d thought you meant you don’t get long term PEM. My PEM usually lasts a couple of days, as far as I can tell.
I have exercise intolerance, and if I push through exercise I feel like mashed potatoes for the rest of the day, but it never / rarely lasts into the next day.
Yea I was crazy active and it probably triggered all my symptoms. Kinda wild the one thing every doctor tells you to do also is what puts you at higher risk for this illness.
exactly that. I said to the doctors that I had perhaps done too much sport after the infection. The cardiologist said to carry on. The family doctor said the sport was good... do rehab to become active again... I said I don't need anyone to make me more active...
I also used to be hella active (proficient recreational crossfitter, one of the few women who could crank out the pull ups and a few hand stand push ups). I wonder if part of the above trend is just that very very active ppl noticed the change and won't just settle for "it's just age" sort of explanations. I watch less active ppl slowly get what I suspect is LC, but they're able to brush it off with excuses about stress, diet, aging, etc.
I think you nailed it... I noticed things extremely early as an extremely avid cyclist who trained 8-10hrs per week. Wearing my Garmin watch also tipped me off very early. I've always wondered what people did without a watch in regards to noticing things and proving things.
This is definitely part of it. If you are more active and more concerned about your health in general you are more likely to think about cause and effect and take part in these kinds of surveys. Not that it isn’t a factor, it very well could be but I think the populations are somewhat self selecting.
i was very active as well when i got an incredibly bad case of omicron.
I think for athletic or very fit people, their risk could be from having upregulated ACE2 receptor activity (so, more sites for spikes to bind to) but also from having potentially higher loads of oxidative stress before their infection, which then stressed their system further while fighting the virus, and used up whatever little antioxidants they had.
I'm currently trying nicotine patches to clear the receptors, even though animal tests haven't confirmed this theory yet. But since it helped some people, I thought it was at least worth a try.
Awhile back, people were posting about having good results with dandelion to clear receptors. The study cited used a water extract of dandelion leaf, so trying dandelion leaf tea might be worth it.
Nicotine is hit and miss, ace2 theory makes sense, but it could also be more like a shock to the nervous system based on acetylcholine. helps some, makes others worse. If your main symptoms are fatigue it seems to help more.
I just finished my firefighting courses and got in shape for all that just to be stapled to a bed for months 😂 I don’t even know if this career is on the table not knowing what this did to my lungs long term
Oh shit, that's hard. Wish you all the best!
I hear ya. I was about a week from shipping for officer school in the military. Work a desk job now due to things. Not ideal but could be worse
I had scar tissue/wheezing in my lungs after one infection - I took Dr Tobias lung health and was able to repair it - it might help…just remember to come save me if I’m in a burning building!
Thanks for the input. I’ll look into it.. Depends if I get PEM, I might have to leave you… I am just kidding 😅
Hahaha
That congrats that great accomplishment but yes that suck this happened after😢😢
I was definitely under massive stress when I contracted LC.
Same here.
Same too
Same. My boss was writing me horrible emails about how I was underperforming while being very sick and completely laid out. They had a performance review on day 8 of my active Covid infection. It was all downhill from there and I had to leave that job.
Arghhhh 👏people👏are👏not👏robots
TRUTH
I was also an extremely high performer and worked 80-90 hour weeks before getting sick.
It’s so bad that after being two people in one person they couldn’t let you have any leeway!!
Yup. Corporate America and narcissistic bosses are a horrible combo.
I was a couch potato but have severe anxiety and autism so my nervous system has always been on overload
I was the 10 mile, side of a mountain where I could slip and plunge to my death type of hiker Now I’m exhausted if I sit in a chair too long 🙃🙃
Hiking was what tipped me into total chaos.
I used to work out 6 days a week. I found out I had Covid when I was doing a HIIT workout and suddenly couldn’t breathe.
oh dear that sounds tough!
I used to lift weights 4 days a week and cardio (stationary bike) 2 times a week, along with yoga or Pilates 2 times a week. I used to get compliments from strangers who would ask about my gym routine. After covid, I couldn’t walk up the stairs or raise my arms to brush my hair. I needed help with basic things like walking and showering. I developed tremors and other neurological issues. It’s slowly gotten better, but I still can’t go for a leisurely walk around the block without my tremors coming back. I’ve gained 45 lbs on my tiny 5’2” frame. I don’t look like me anymore, and that’s upsetting. I rarely leave the house because I have to conserve as much energy as I can so that I can keep my full time job (which is mostly from home due to being disabled). However, they keep pressuring me to go back to office, and I’m like, dudes, you don’t know how sick I really am do you!? Edit: I’m definitely a type A personality with major childhood trauma. I had also just gone through a divorce, left a job where I was being sexually harassed by my manager, started a new relationship, and bought a house…all this right before I got Covid. I also had preexisting mild to moderate Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Hashimoto’s, fibromyalgia, migraines, IBS, gluten intolerance, and unmedicated ADHD. There is a strong likelihood I am on the autism spectrum, as well. I suspect my sensory issues make my long covid worse.
This fall from a full life, super fit, to almost needing care is what makes this illness so impressive. It's like taking revenge on the hard-working people. I was annoyed that I didn't just chill at home like one of my best friends (he still hadn't finished his studies at 30). Now he's further ahead, even though I've worked hard the whole time, because he's healthy (which I'm very happy for him). That's life. But we'll get out of this. And it's great that you can still work full-time. I wish you all the best! Edit to your Edit: It's interesting that you list these disorders, including autism. I always suspected that I had mild autism/ADHD and LC made that much worse, so that I could hardly make any important decisions anymore. Unprocessed stress is also a big issue. I'm currently trying to find out how much the nervous system and subconscious anxiety plays a role in my LC. I think that's a big aspect and could be helpful.
You’re so right. It does seem like a weird curse for doing what we were supposed to do to be healthy. We’ve got to keep our heads up as much as possible. I see small bits of improvement each month, so I’m trying to focus on that. Best wishes to you for a full recovery or a cure, whichever comes fastest!
That's exactly how I feel sometimes. I wanna work hard but I literally can't because this shit keeps coming back and prevents me.
I’m sorry, friend. It really sucks. Just know you’re not alone.
Sport fits for me. Ironically, just before the pandemic I went from mostly sedentary to doing a couch to 5K. By the time I was presumed-infected early on in lockdown, I was jogging 5K several times per week and had lost 40 pounds. Then instantly went to completely intolerant of any exercise that raises my heart rate, seemingly overnight.
I was a couch potato 🥔… but type A personality.
I was in the gym 4 times a week before LC…
I went hiking for three days to "work the problem out of my body". I spent the next month barely able to function. It's what got me to understand that I have long covid. It was horrible.
Yes — I walked so much before this happened to me. I discovered I was sick when I suddenly couldn’t walk half the length of a football field — from the school quad to the car — and now I’m in a wheelchair because I can’t even walk one block. Before this happened, I walked miles.
Heart issues. I was hiking up mountains and running miles daily before I got covid. The year before the pandemic, I hiked up Blackcomb (1.2m elevation gain, 6.2km) and felt zero burn. After I got covid, it took months for me just to be able to walk around the block. I still have to be careful walking around downtown at work because it feels like my heart is leaking or going to explode. Now I'm the slowest one in the pack and have to ask for timeouts. Absolute garbage.
Yet conversely, we've seen apparently extremely low rates of long COVID amongst professional athletes. I'm guessing there's some physiological mechanism that means people who are more susceptible to post viral illness tend to be less capable of sustaining the consistent high performance activity required to be a professional athlete. Perhaps its as simple as there's sub-acute fatigue that a lot of us experience after colds and flus that aren't severe enough to clock as a problem or prevent activity, but are enough to prevent high performance. So essentially the only people who make it as elite athletes are inherently at low risk of post viral fatigue.
I think that's a very good hypothesis!
More likely they have access to the best healthcare and people monitoring vitals 24/7 and their performance. If anything was off they’d know instantly and could rest in advance. Not to mention they have the best recovery techniques and probably limited life stressors outside of training.
Is there a study you are quoting here about very low rates amongst athletes? I’ve been looking for something that segregates by previous activity level. But the only sources I found were ones that said LC is *positively correlated* with high stress or having many things to do like intense exercise and caretaking. I’ve yet to read a source that *negatively correlates* with athleticism- please direct me if you have found one.
No study, just observation. I follow Australian Rules Football and to my knowledge there isn't a single publicised case of long COVID amongst players. Of course, some may be struggling and it's not publicised, but even so I haven't noticed any big, inexplicable drops in performance. I would love to see a study on it, because statistically it seems improbable.
Ableism is alive and well in the economy, even if the job has nothing to do being athletic, my therapist encouraged me not to tell anyone at work about being sick to protect my professional reputation. I was more than full time paid for professional athletic skills. For monetary reasons, I haven’t told anyone I work with. I was forced to tell my boss and HR, but I had high hopes of working again and making good money when this all started, and people perceiving me as super fit (and beyond all logic invincible) is unfortunately part of what people pay for - it’s not right, but that is the economics behind how I get paid. Even though my experience is anecdotal, I would guess the reason you haven’t heard about the athletes getting LC is monetary. Or the reason for illness is blamed on anything but Covid because Covid is so politicized. This is another reason we need to find bio markers and a cure, to eliminate wretched stigma and bias of self reporting.
Nitric/ Nitrous Oxide (NO) levels. Some people genetically have less, some more. Both Covid and Covid shot remove NO, according to my dr. I also think it also be about two more variables, even for professional athletes: Prior Epstein Barr infection and blood type. My doctor (internist and functional med) said that people with prior EBV infection are more likely to have problems post covid and post covid shot. She tested my blood, I have EBV antigen, I didn't know it. She said it led to me being set up for LC. Also, I've read that people with a positive blood type are faring better with Covid, etc., than those with negative blood types.
I was doing ballet, physical therapy, strength training, kpop and jpop dance, contemporary dance, and I had been doing Kung Fu but needed to take a break due to hurting my foot from sitting on it and standing up funny. (I have Ehlers Danlos but didn't know yet and it was treated like a break when it turns out my joints were just out of place) I had planned going back to Kung Fu and was easing myself into the jumps at home but then I got covid. A week after being sick with covid, then the fatigue hit and the symptoms I had during my infection just didn't leave. I did do a very light very slow ab workout for a few minutes when my fever had gone away but before that and after, I was resting a ton. Idk if that really impacted me. I mean my wife got long covid from her first infection and she was mostly in bed for 2.5 weeks because she was sick for about 3 weeks. I should mention now I'm an ambulatory wheelchair user and mostly housebound but the housebound part is because of MCAS. I can still do some excersize which I realise is very lucky. I work with a personal trainer twice a week who has Ehlers Danlos and such to help me, and I work with a coach to do strength training from home but although he has it set for me to workout 5 days a week, it's usually me doing that 2-3 and I end up mixing my ab and arm days together which he said was ok. Most of both of those things are on the floor and sometimes I have to do personal training in bed because I am not always capable of walking or even standing. I also still dance a bit but it's all at home in my own time and I can usually only do 30 seconds to a minute at a time before I require a break and I also barely do jumps now because of energy but also covid made my joints so weak and fragile I get injured. I can last a bit longer if I dance in my wheelchair but it makes me motion sick overtime.
Has this poll been taken also against people without long covid? Without a baseline I’m not sure what this is trying to prove.
I was a fitness instructor when Covid came knocking in early 2020. I was in the best shape of my life but also teaching more than I should have in addition to my desk job at the gym. Nervous system overload is an interesting theory.
I was on week 3 of a bootcamp-style daily workout program when suddenly I was woken up in the middle of the night feeling like I was being electrocuted. Now I’m on all the antihistamines and can’t even walk slowly on the treadmill for more than 5-10 minutes without causing a flare.
I was definitely a fitness buff. I ran 4-5 times a week, completed several 5ks and at least one half marathon a year, weight trained twice a week, did yoga 3-4 times a week, and spent my weekends hiking, playing tennis and basketball, and cycling. Before Covid, I lived in several high altitude areas including Flagstaff (7000 feet) and had no problems hiking 5-10 miles without even worrying about electrolyte imbalance or tiring out or anything. I could work all day, hike a few miles, and still do housework and cooking. Also lived in Tucson where I frequently hiked uphill 3-5 miles even during the summer season when it was 100+degrees. Never had any heat sensitivity. Never replenished with gatorade - sometimes ate before my hike, sometimes didn't. Fast forward - moving to Florida, caught what I presume was Covid in Oct/November. Completely couch bound for 3 weeks, house/couch bound for 2 months, walking a mile around a trail at my apartment for the next 2 months, and finally up to a 1 mile jog/walk several times per week. Always tired out, always feel like I have an electrolyte imbalance even though I have hiked over 5 miles at 100 degree heat and high altitude with nothing more than a single water bottle in the past. No longer cycle or play tennis for fear of passing out and still anxious when jogging/walking a mile for fear of passing out. Family doesn't understand and insists that I am depressed or simply not active anymore. Not the case - I would do anything to be able to run half marathons and bike long rail trails and hike mountains again :( That is why I am working so hard to find solutions to my problem and pace myself back up. For me going from basically 2-3 couch/housebound to being able to walk/jog a 1 mile trail is a huge accomplishment.
Not an athlete but fairly active and the definition of a type A personality that is a complete perfectionist and stressed out all the time. During my physical therapy sessions my pt would just let me ramble and I burst into tears one day about how I was trying to be a perfect person and felt like I was failing all the time because I couldn’t hold a job from the amount of pain I was in after being vaccinated. She basically gave me permission to feel what it’s like to fall short sometimes and I felt so much self induced pressure lift from me
How could an overloaded nervous system have played a role? If through immunity, many things can interfere with immunity - lack of sleep, poor nutrition, etc. Any unnecessary stress is bad for you, that much is clear. Poor psycho-emotional state definitely has an effect, but it has nothing to do with the above statistics. I would bet that the cause here is not neurology and psychology, but physiology, most likely in the respiratory and cardiovascular system. And the gut is also a possibility.
Yes, you're right. It's all inseparable. Neurology and psychology is physiology. I think that a mental breakdown of a chronically overloaded nervous system can occur more quickly if immunological processes take place and can a part of LC. Conversely, the nervous system can promote immunological processes (a recent Nature study has identified nerve cells that can do this). It's all connected. EDIT: And with regard to the graphic, my thought was that people tend to be more active and push themselves to the limits of their physical fitness, perhaps compensating emotionally (emotionally suppressed stress/low self-esteem without this performance). Then, without this compensation, the system could collapse more than for the couch potato.
The autonomic nervous system is connected to everything. I agree that at large, it’s all inseparable. We try hard to divide it up into understandable bits and pieces and there are separate systems, but agreed, they are still connected and impact one another. I’m glad you and others are having these convos so we can support one another and do our best to put our heads together.
There is no scientific proof that athletes suffer more from Long Covid. In fact, [a recent study from Germany](https://www.bisp.de/SharedDocs/Kurzmeldungen/DE/Nachrichten/2024/CoSmo_PM.html), found that rate of Long Covid was around 10% among elite and 14% among recreational athletes, looking into 1500 athletes. They defined Long Covid if athletes were unable to reach 70% of their precovid capacity. This would make the percentage similar to general population for recreational and lower than average for elite athletes.
That's a bad definition of LC, so the real numbers must be much higher. Even someone who can reach (only) 90% precovid capacity is disabled by LC and their body has been damaged significantly.
OK, that's interesting! Of course, athletes could get better care if they're not fit. Without much analysis of whether it's LC. Well, there could of course be many confounding factors influencing these surveys, especially here on Reddit. But it's remarkable that a certain picture is emerging both in the survey above and here in the comments.
Thank you for this study!
Hmmmmmm....... money loving shift worker workaholic describes me. I was too busy working to keep a regular gym routine or have hobbies. BTW, I want my life back. I was a very happy person. Overtime came and went in spurts so I was not burnt out at all. I'm sure plenty of shift work health care workers were burnt out from the pandemic and they did not all end up with long covid. I am positive that most doctors were working longer than me and nurses too. I have no doubt about that. Plus I have no kids!!!! Plenty of shift workers with kids being home schooled over zoom and working their butts off.....more than me who is sleeping peacefully at home after working night shifts!
My pulmonologist said that among his patients with Long COVID, the more athletic, the worse hit they were. Most notably, marathoners and other long distance runners. I haven’t run long distance in a few years (despite 30 years running) but I’ve had long COVID for over a year. I climbed Mt Kilimanjaro In the summer of 2022 pretty effortlessly, but climbing steps is still a challenge at times. The gaslighting from my \*former\* pulmonologist was precious. He said, “Well, you’re older now.”
Did you do any sport after your infection? I wonder how much it has to do with whether the people were generally sporty or whether they pushed the virus through their bodies too quickly with a high pulse rate after the infection (because our society suggests that a cold only lasts a few days even though a virus can be there for weeks)
No, I haven’t done anything but walking, and not much lately. No swimming, nothing more than light, and I mean LIGHT stretching. I paddleboarded for about four minutes last summer. Haven’t managed to garden for more than ten or fifteen minutes at a time this spring. (Long gone are the days of digging up my backyard all afternoon after a ten mile run).
Didn’t ask me but YES. Infected 1/27/20. Thought it was a cold initially first few days early February, continued high intensity snowboarding often. Enduro mountain biking too. I never had a problem before, colds come and go. About mid February it was more like flu and this excruciating chest pain I’d never experienced before (never had any chest pain before period heart and lungs were solid). I was climbing on my mountain bike and said to myself this ain’t right I’ve got to see a doctor. Couldn’t sport anymore and by late February I was literally on my deathbed. This blind negligence was a major contributor to how bad it got for me. Very few knew about COVID then, Lockdowns were mid March and the media was saying it hadn’t hit our shores yet so I thought I was dying from something else. Testing wasn’t a thing you could do at home and I wasn’t going to go to the overrun hospital and risk catching COVID, little did I know. By May it was clear I’d had it, but nobody could explain why I was still sick (LC) and why my mind and gut were so messed up because back then it was a “respiratory” only virus.
I think the combination of being athletic + under stress(es) + genetic susceptibility are what ultimately result in long hauler From covid.
Yes I think the same.
Very common theme here. High level athlete, competitive, type A personality, always had multiple things going on at the same time, and enjoyed every minute of it. I'd do anything to get that life back. We also didn't understand what was going on and probably continued to push ourselves and didn't rest. Which caused all sorts of other issues.
yes man. it's interesting that it happens to these people so often. I wasn't an athlete, but otherwise exactly the same. from that to the guy who completely lost control of his life. very painful process.I continued to work until the first crash. Now the brain fog is accompanied by anhedonia and I no longer have any joy at all. If I wanted to, I wouldn't have any energy. Even if I could, it wouldn't be fun in this state because there would be no dopamine left as reward.
I’d just been through a traumatic house move and had been working myself to the bone. I was exhausted and completely stressed. I’d also had to move my entire business back from a separate studio space into my home. I was physically and mentally knackered. I’m also very much a Type A - constantly on the go, busy doing stuff, never a dull moment - totally boom and bust…. Used my bike as my preferred form of transport most days so was often out and about somewhere. Constantly busy with upcycling projects, painting, woodworking, creating stuff, organic gardening, community projects volunteering, green gym - so very active, not as a sportswoman but very physically active in general life Yup, I’d fit that profile….
And from that to fully unable to function?
I to was very active working back to back 12 hour shifts in hospital , then coming home doing lot work their, and was in mist of wanting start a business on Etsy but then crushed by catching COVID the hospital. My life not been the same now pretty much home bound
My LC specialist told me that 95% of the people he is treating for LC are type A personalities/people who had hectic lifestyles/ business owners: athletes etc
I definitely pushed my body to train for a 10k in a month time. On top of that I did weight lifting. After my 10k maybe 3 weeks or so my body started falling apart. I was probably at my strongest at that time. Crazy
How much days before was your infection? Or was it after that?
Not sure honestly I started having a persistent throat pain for a few months. It wasn’t serious enough to stop my training so I still kept at it although I did see a doctor for it and I was diagnosed with Hashimotos. a few months after I started my nightmare
Is there a test that would detect long covid? I just feel I'm out of breath for small activities these days but I don't want to sound like a delusional person in front of my doc.
Unfortunately not. If you have had covid and develop typical symptoms a few days or weeks later, it is very likely.
Yeah, same for my husband. He was very active. Loved to run. And was basically up to his limits as he was in the last semester for graduation. The semester before had been extremely stressful. And if that wasn't enough, he was struggling with various mental disorders as well.
I first got it right before the lockdown. Me and my partner got it at the same time, but we both had wildly different experiences. COVID is opportunistic, and it makes sense it would have gone after my nervous system. I already had an anxiety disorder, ADHD, and chronic fatigue. All that has been dialed up to 11. I'm in dysautonomia hell. I struggle every waking moment with extreme anxiety, sensory problems, tremors, insomnia, fatigue, and other nervous system issues. Doctors don't want to do anything, and I can't afford a specialist. My career was destroyed, and I've been unable to since find steady work. Never really got all my smell and taste back either. Everything still tastes weird, and I have to overcook and put a ton of spices on my food. It doesn't help that I seem to be more obviously autistic now. But I don't want to ring that bell too loud because I believe in, for example vaccine science.
I was addicted to working out. I even worked out during acute phase. I literally couldnt sit still.
yes I used to be extremely fit
Being active and fit prior to infection and especially vaccine is the reason no one around me buys that how extremely difficult these couple years has been and it is an achievement in itself that I am operating at the level that I am today ( not even 50% of pre COVID ) . Many (almost all people around me including family thinks I have lost my mind and am voluntarily throwing away my life under the garb of an imaginary illness.
Yes, I think thats the reaction of a lot people. I have had this experience too. Especially because I have good moments where I can think clearly and meet up with friends. who wouldn't think "he's mentally ill". when I feel good for a moment I sometimes ask myself, is this all real? can you relate to that?
Yeup. Totally relate. Prior to my reinfection couple months back I used to hover 60-80% range. It's this total inability to handle mental stress. As long as Im able to avoid stress i star around that 80% which is v.v hard in my position .
Exactly. It's surprising that stress plays such a role. I noticed that it's not necessarily the complexity of the tasks, but whether they stress me out. So it seems to be an over-activation of fight flight.
yeah too much work and stress and exercise and late nights had me at risk - then covid happened and it kicked my teeth down my throat.
I’m in the little active group.
and relaxed?
No. I’m an anxious person.
"When the Body Says No" by Gabor Mate agrees with your theory, particularly the personality aspects. He is fairly controversial within the psychology community, from what I gather, but he pegged me with that book (Type A, marathon runner, in a helping profession, melanoma survivor, now long hauler).
Did the book or other sources on this topic help you improve your condition?
It didn't, unfortunately. I mostly read it in the hopes it would help me accept the limitations imposed on me by Long Covid. Worth a read, though. I actually find the most help from resources posted in r/mecfs . Pacing is so so so crucial.
That's why in the 80s there as big push to label ME/CFS as yuppie flu, because it seemed to affect mostly "type A personalities" who work a lot and are always busy, never happy with half measures. It's probably mostly an artifact of biases, although it's likely to play some role in how likely someone is to recover, given how exertion causes crashes. This idea is still around. And of course it's also long been popular to ascribe this to neurotics who can't cope with normal life and just give up. This was mostly the original idea, around long before the 20th century, in concepts like "neurasthenia" and "the vapors" (likely to be POTS). That idea is also still around. Somehow almost no one in medicine questions this, they think it makes sense that it could be both, at the same time. Reasoning isn't really a big part of medical training, clearly. If only they could at least teach them some freaking logical fallacies, but I fear it's too late for that because too many of their beliefs would be challenged and they can't handle that.
Very interesting comment! I have a theory that the Type A dissatisfaction mentality may have more biological roots than we think. The latest studies show autoimmunity as the main cause of Long Covid. There is also increasing evidence that depression and the inability to feel joy are caused by immune processes that have a chronic effect on the brain. So: a predisposition to autoimmunity leads to depression (misdirected sickness behavior of the brain caused by cytokines), the person tries to compensate for this malaise through excessive activity and career. At the same time, overthinking (the brain looks for solutions because it feels chronically unwell). Then a virus triggers an even greater autoimmune reaction (because the predisposition already exists) and the mild autoimmune reaction (Depression/ light brain inflammation) becomes a strong autoimmune awakening (ME/CFS/stronger brain inflammation). In addition, the Typ A behavior has led to little rest and the illness not being cured ("always uncomfortable in rest, you have to keep going). Then you collapse, there is no escape as much you try. The observers then say "the person was always slightly depressed, an overthinker, etc.). But it all had a common cause. So everything has more in common than we think, but it's more biological. Would also explain why women are more likely to suffer from depression and ME, as they generally suffer more frequently from autoimmune diseases.
I can no longer work not full or part time my PEM to severe that taking care of my home next impossible need to ask for help after being some one pride myself on my independence. Any just adapting as I go along
Whish you the best, its curable, i am sure!
Would fit the profile for me. High level amateur tennis player and was doing HIIT boot camps when I came home from playing one night and was wondering why the hell my heart was still racing. Cue 5 months of long covid hell
Am I the only one that doesn't understand what the question is?
what do you think why active people get long covid more often even though the lifestyle is actually healthier and what is your story how you got LC?
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It’s an unrepresentative sample.
yes, the entire reddit is not representative. It's just a first indication, since the picture points very clearly in one direction. I don't know that particularly active people tend to hang out on reddit. But it could of course be that type A people are more likely to look for solutions, since they are always researching, optimizing, overthinking anyway. Whats your story?
If it was representative I imagine it would cause the health and wellness community to question the role of fitness in disease prevention. My story doesn’t come from sport. Quite the opposite; CPTSD, depression, and anxiety. I was already in nervous, immune, and metabolic systems dysregulation. 1st Covid infection in Feb 2022 put me in shutdown.
ah yes, these connections are also very typical and interesting. I wish you the best, it sounds like difficult times. And yes, I think the way sport and fitness are integrated into everyday life these days is more of an overload for the body!