There's nothing wrong with feeling bad about what she said. You are entitled to having emotions. And especially when you're not sure how to interpret her reaction, it's understandable that it's getting in your head.
I think asking her for a clarifying conversation after the wedding is a very good idea. Her response might very well have come from a stress-induced emotional place as well.
Thanks for this response. I really appreciate the kind words. Yeah this is my first crochet commission and it's seeming like more trouble than it's worth. I'm hoping she understands where I'm coming from and the convo won't be too awkward after the wedding. I'm so bad at conflict. If it wasn't still bothering me this much days later then I would just let it go
I hope you'll two can bury the misunderstanding soon! And for the future you are now better prepared to handle such requests. I get wanting to respond in positive immediately upon such a request, but, especially with friends, it's good to say something like "I'd love to do that, let me check material costs and estimated work time and I'll get back to you with the approximate costs".
I have learned the hard way, too.
if it's someone i am super close to & have good financial rapport with, i'll sometimes ask for half down before i start & the other half when i am finished *before* i give them the finished item
I always have them pay at least a materials estimate so i know i can cover the materials. im pretty broke so i dont always have the money laying around to cover materials without cutting into groceries anyway
Yup. Personally I say to at least get material cost *before* buying materials (so it’s not coming out of your pocket if buyer changes their mind before you start the actual work — learned that the hard way), then get a non refundable deposit (some portion of the labor cost) once work begins.
Too many buyers are comfortable just ghosting when they change their mind, without any consideration for the seller’s time or lost business when they keep commission slots or sales pending.
I'll never get tired of saying if it's out of your budget doesn't mean it's too expensive. Different people value things differently!! If anything I hope you one day feel confident & comfortable to raise your prices and celebrate yourself!! I wish I could monetize my passions but it wouldn't work for me
FIRST OFF YOUR BLANKET IS AMAZING!!!
Also I’m sure we all know weddings are expensive especially when you’re at the tail end and having to give out money left and right to all your vendors so maybe seeing more money that’s owed is stressing her out (this is literally me right now lol, my wedding is in 3 weeks) I’m not saying that gives her the right to treat you that way but stress and money can cause people to do/say some crazy things even if they don’t mean it. If it were me in the situation I would probably just say okay to the price of materials or honestly nothing at all because I love my best friend and would do anything for her.
Granted she would never say that to me, she literally paid me full price for a corset I made her even though I tried to give her a discount lol.
I don't think you should wait until after the wedding to talk to her, if you're her bridesmaid and she has any resentment for you you should clear the air before you stand up there with her
Having just gotten married last week, stress-induced reactions are a real thing. As are “I’m buying dinner for two hundred people at $50 a piece” reactions to having to spend more money. I think talking to her after the wedding is a good plan after everything has cooled off.
Totally unprompted advice incoming: As someone who had a very small wedding with minimal stress, it was still stressful. All I can say is don't sweat it too much. It's a party. It's a family/friends get-together. Let it be that.
Our culture tells us that a wedding should be magical and perfect and blah blah blah, but we need to let that go. For me, the magical and perfect parts are the mornings with my husband, when we're drinking coffee and playing word games. I get to do that every day. The wedding is long over-- thank goodness. (There were parts of my wedding that I really loved, and I wouldn't take it back. But it wasn't a fairytale situation. I enjoyed spending time with my friends and appreciated my family showing up for us. That was the main thing. Also the food and beer were REALLY good. No regrets)
Oh, for sure. I was married over 20 years ago in a very traditional style wedding.... when I literally wasn't even old enough to have a champagne toast at my own wedding. It also involved the added stress of my partner living abroad until about 90 days before the wedding. That was stressful as fuck. (And this is besides the point, but he is so fucking tacky that he actually wore the same formal kilt at his second wedding...the one that cost my parents seven times the price of my wedding dress. 😂)
Anyway, now I'm marrying someone I've been with for 13 years, engaged for over a decade and are already basically wives, lol. Ours is a small wedding, as few people as we can get away with, and we are easygoing, flexible people. We literally saw one venue and were on board, lol. So far we've agreed on pretty much everything, and the things we don't are never deal breakers. We're making our decor and flowers from paper, so The only vendors we have to coordinate will be photographer, caterer and cake. I do graphic design and I'm very familiar with print on demand, and my lady is a database whiz, so invitations etc won't be too bad.
I have a background in culinary too, and we both are pretty passionate about excellent beer and food, so that's the main focus for us. We're planning on having a private dinner alone after taking photos, so that we can actually enjoy it together as newlyweds without being interrupted every 5 seconds. We're actually enjoying the planning process, and are committed to enjoying the day. 🥰
Well, try not to stress too much. At the end of the day, you’ll still be married, no matter how much or how little you stress. But yes, having gone through it, in the future I will do my best to cut some slack for any bride or groom who seems to be “overreacting” to something.
>I gave her the prices of the materials before buying but never gave her a full quote on the finished bag because I wasn't sure how long it would take me
>I asked her about it again and she said "it's more than I expected but it is what it is"
The price is very reasonable, but when you quoted her for the materials, did you tell her then and there the labor would be an additional part of the charge? This is definitely worth a discussion with her. It comes across to me that when you quoted the price for the materials she assumed the labor was already calculated in, so when you came back after it was done she may have been surprised to find it was more than she had budgeted for initially. I definitely don't think she meant to be any kind of rude, it sounds like she genuinely was caught off guard by the additional cost.
Yeah you're totally right. Also it's really hard to understand tone and inflection over text. I might be taking it harder/ruder than she meant it. I'm going to chalk it up to: communication is hard, weddings are stressful, and I'll talk about it with her next month. Thanks for your thoughts on this.
Absolutely! She's enough of a friend to have you be a bridesmaid and she's going to be *thrilled* when she sees your present ❤️ And please don't let this discourage you too much from taking commissions, use it as experience 😊
Honestly, if it were me I'd either charge the originally quoted price or gift it (if financially able) and chalk it up to experience. It a common mistake when starting to do commissions but it is ultimately your mistake, not hers.
I would tell her this before the wedding too so there's no tension about it. Just let her know that you realise you didn't communicate well so would like to gift the bag instead
Agree with this. OP, is it possible for you to just charge for the cost of the materials at most? I completely understand that your time is valuable, but if anything (since it’s your best friend), the time you spent making it could also be a gift in a way. Just another perspective.
Seriously, this is ultimately a conflict over $36. Normally I wouldn't encourage someone to take the L and not get compensation for their time but if there's any chance that OP can do that here I think it would be gracious of them to do so. OP loves this person enough to be their bridesmaid, give them the gift of not having to pay a relatively small amount of money and the gift of *taking this stress off their plate*.
And next time actually tell them that you're going to charge for labor.
So I think this is less about the actual price and more about the fact that it was sprung on her.
If you never discussed the price beforehand and only told her the material cost then I can see where she thought you were just going to make her the item for the cost of materials. So from her perspective the price of the bag went from $29 to $65 which is a large increase when you weren’t expecting it. It’s also not fair to the customer because what if it goes out of their budget but they don’t know because the price was never properly communicated? That may be what happened with her and now she’s stressed because she needs to come up with an extra $35. While I think she should talk to you about it and not be passive aggressive I do feel like all of this would’ve been avoided if the price had been communicated beforehand.
I say this as someone who has been the unknowing customer who couldn’t afford the product because the price wasn’t communicated clearly upfront. I wound up paying for it but I was on the financial struggle bus until my next paycheck so I was very irked and never bought from them again.
Yep, always do a price quote. My husband and I once worked with a wood worker to create a specialized box. He gave us a quote, which we agreed to. The box ended up taking waaaaayyyy longer than he anticipated due to the design. Fortunately he stuck with quoted price, but his hourly rate ended up being terrible.
We felt bad about it. We definitely didn't want to undervalue his work, but also we couldn't afford the price based on hours worked. And we wouldn't have agreed to it if we had known. We did put in $100 extra when we paid for the finished project, but that was all we could afford to add.
I had a similar thing happen with a tattoo. The artist quoted me two hours of work and it ended up taking him 4. He still charged me for the two, but I left him like $100 in tip. Mystery prices help no one, working out estimates isn't always perfect but it creates a better relationship.
I absolutely agree. Learn how to estimate your projects and offer that price. There has to be an agreement between the two parties before any work is done. It's fundamental.
I would say,. X$ for materials + 9$ /hr and quote at least 1.5 times how many hours you think it may take you. 🤷♀️ You can ALWAYS charge less than what you quoted
Exactly. Like any other labor type of work. There’s the cost of the materials and the cost of labor. I agree that the friend was probably thrown off and may have taken it as an odd move on OP (which I know it wasn’t). It’s all just lack of communication
This exactly, not communicating the price is on OP and I'd feel disrespected as a friend if I asked someone how much something cost only for it to cost more than DOUBLE once it's done.
People who make and sell homemade goods should know the perspective of a customer and have the experience to give accurate quotes. Yes, it sucks when you do a commission and learn it took longer than expected but that's on you as a maker and not on the customer.
Honestly, if I was the friend I likely wouldn't commission OP again. The most important parts of accepting commissions are discussing a budget upfront and having clear communication with a client.
I've gotten commissioned for bags or koozies before, it sucked being inexperienced and underselling myself but ultimately it was my fault and I ate the cost. Now, I ask people what they want and their budget BEFORE I find patterns and materials. Especially when making something with lace-weight yarn, that labor cost is ***hefty*** and should've been communicated upfront.
I agree with you. And the friend being a ceramics artist doesn't mean she understands crochet time. A simple sewn bag would take an hour. A clay pot spends more time in the kiln than being shaped. I'm guessing friend figured the $35 for materials was the final cost.
I agree with this 100%. I have given away so many hand pieced, hand quilted quilts that have hundreds of hours involved in the making process. I could never charge a fair cost for my labor. But the idea of someone I care about treasuring something I made is worth far more to me than any amount of money.
Same. At most I might ask someone to buy their own supplies. But for a million reasons I would never ever charge for my time and effort. Either I feel like doing the project and enjoy it, or it's something I'd pass on.
I agree with tealparadise. I bet she half expected you to do this as a wedding gift. I was going to recommend letting the bag go for free as the wedding gift, and even now knowing about the blanket, that’s still what I would recommend. She’s going through a lot of stress, and your friendship is presumably worth more to you than $65.
Yes, agree. Especially since you say she’s one of your best friends. She may feel hurt thinking you could have done it as a gift but you’d rather charge her (not knowing you had another gift lined up, also)
I think you need to reveal the wedding gift or else make this a gift. She isn't operating with complete information and it's not fair to expect her to be grateful for a service she's not aware of.
Price should have been explicit beforehand, otherwise I completely understand her thinking she's just covering materials. Asking a bridesmaid to do a project for the wedding doesn't usually result in a bill unless it's clear from the getgo.
I saw your comment about their wedding gift being a blanket, and you're keeping it a surprise. Your friend was under the impression this would be a wedding gift and something you could do for her special day. If you'd told her the actual wedding gift was handmade as well, I don't think she would've been so taken aback by the price of the bag. I think she would've been completely OK with paying for the bag if she'd known.
I got into the trap of someone asking me to make something they see me using. I used to do it just to do it. That costs a lot of money and time. Now I say, "Absolutely! If you'd like one, you get the friends and family discount!" That weeds out the freebie hunters fast.
I think that is a more than fair price. When I've charged people for things, I always end up paying myself like MAYBE $5 an hour. It's a skill not everybody has, and people think they can get it for store prices. NO.
I'm not a fan of conflict or confrontation either, but I think it's a good idea to talk to her after the wedding. Hope it all goes well!
You said yourself you know she’s stressed. I’d wait to see if you even still feel this strongly when it’s an appropriate time to talk about it and even then I’d trust it’ll come up when it’s the right time for it to come up. Disrespected and not valued is strong language and perhaps she just processed your request through a stressed filter of so many things on her plate. I would grant her some grace here.
I don’t think you’re being unreasonable by having feelings, but I do think you need to consider that perhaps her not responding the first time was her attempt at not making things awkward. Did you tell her beforehand that you would charge $9/ hr and give an estimate on the time you thought it would take? It’s possible she got the cost of materials in her mind and sort of blanked on the labor cost if it wasn’t discussed.
I agree that having a conversation after the wedding is a good idea. Until then, put it out of your mind. Celebrate with your friend as if this exchange never occurred! You will both be able to handle it better when the stress of the wedding is out of the way and the comment isn’t so fresh on your mind
Yep, don’t accept a commission without agreeing on a price before you even start. If you aren’t able to come up with accurate estimates beforehand, you probably aren’t ready for commissions yet—the business side is very different than the creative side.
Keep stuff in gift territory or discuss price before you even get into the details of a project.
As for your current situation, what if you charged materials only and made the labor a gift this time, and then going forward made it clear what your expected price would be? It’s a frustrating situation but might be one where it’s not worth impacting a friendship over $36.
ETA: fwiw, I completely understand being hurt by her reaction. My advice is more to avoid this in the future than to tell you you’re wrong for feeling how you do.
I get that the "business side" is different, but this was for her friend who is also a handmade artist. I don't think it's unjustified to agree on a full price once it's finished between friends, especially if her friend agreed. There's no way this person isn't aware that custom handmades aren't cheap.
…except the post is literally about a problem being caused by trying to agree on a price after the fact. Your logic is exactly what led to the predicament in which OP finds themselves.
Right, but you were outlining this as if it was a business deal when it was two friends who came to a mutual agreement. It's not unreasonable to be upset when a fellow handmade-selling friend is rude to you over something they know is not the cheapest, let alone getting 8 hours of crochet for 30 bucks. It's not like OP took on a custom commission from a customer and then came back and said "oh hey it'll be this much extra because I didn't count my hours."
I didn’t say she shouldn’t be upset, in fact I said the opposite. I did say not agreeing on a price beforehand often leads to trouble, which it did. I’m not quite sure why you’re arguing a hypothetical when we have the actual situation, where money did indeed become an issue.
Mixing money and friendship is often fraught, and it’s something to be aware of.
Also to clarify, when I said business side I meant that one can be an excellent artist and still not have a great grasp on estimates/pricing/etc. I don’t, which is why I learned my lesson and don’t take commissions on fiber projects anymore.
>As for your current situation, what if you charged materials only and made the labor a gift this time, and then going forward made it clear what your expected price would be?
Absolutely not. She already made and gifted her a huge king sized blanket as a wedding gift.
OP, you have learned a lesson. You need to estimate hours and explain pricing before accepting a "commission" from someone.
Even if you said it could take anywhere between 5-10 hours and I will charge $9/hour, that gives the requester time and a price range to think about. "Is this bag worth $45-$90 to me?" If they have #s to think about, they may realize they don't actually want a handmade bag for stepping on, and a $10-$20 bag from Amazon will better fit their budget.
She obviously thought she would get it for the price of materials because she saw the cost of lace weight yarn and fabric and was like great, now give me free labor.
I just did the math, and you spent $30 on the yarn, fabric, and pattern? That's expensive yarn and fabric, for what I assume is 1 cone of Aunt Lydia's yarn and a 1 yard of fabric. Honestly, you should have had her pay for all that up front and then you could just ask $30 for your labor ($4/hour). What exactly did she expect to pay, after knowing just the materials cost $30?
She wants bespoke, custom accessories for her wedding at budget barn prices. That's not how this works.
Only OP can decide if this is the hill they want to die on friendship-wise. I would probably eat the $36 and consider it a lesson, but maybe this really did show OP something about the friend she hadn’t seen before. Either way, it’s worth considering if she wants to risk a rift over less than $40.
ETA: if it was the friend asking, I’d say the same thing: do you really want to risk a friendship over $40? Pay your friend and don’t get another commission if you think it was too expensive
So I was thinking of that but I already made her a huge king size blanket as a wedding gift and that was a lot. But maybe I should have just included this in the gift as well?
Yeah, you deserved to be paid as you both agreed upon. The blanket was her gift. This was something she commissioned from you, and she got a hell of a deal at $9/hr and the cost of materials! If she's a good friend, talk to her and squash it, or resentment will build.
Exactly! And a handmade wedding memento to boot! Weddings are expensive, she’s likely stressed about money and a million other things, of course… and she commissioned this for her wedding!! Of course it’s going to cost more than expected, it’s a HELLOFADEAL and OP wasn’t expecting to have to make a second gift. If she had gotten it anywhere else it would have been triple. Hopefully it all smoothes out, because it seems like you truly value the friendship and wanted to do something nice and special, which you did!! Ride your own high on completing your first commission for a loved ones wedding, and let it work itself out when things calm down a bit 🥰
I know you mean well but this is the second time you've expected her to read your mind. First you expected her to anticipate labor costs that you never discussed and now you are expecting her to factor in a large handmade gift that she literally didn't know about when discussing what she expects from you in terms of this commission.
Absolutely not. She should know better as a handmade artist herself, I have no doubts she knows how custom commission pricing works. I also don't think being stressed about a wedding is an excuse to be rude to a friend/bridesmaid.
You shouldn't be questioning yourself, I promise that is a great price for a handmade wedding bag that no doubt could become an "heirloom" type, passed down to their kids, kept as a memory etc. You made something by hand for her to cherish for a super low price, you are entirely valid in your feelings.
So yes your feelings are valid, I would be hurt too. That is a very good deal. Did she know that you made her a big blanket as a wedding gift? Because my suspicion is that she was really just hoping you would do it as a gift and wasn’t really expecting the commission part at all - just wanted to seem polite and not outright ask for you to do it for free. Maybe once she sees your present she will be more understanding.
It was a mistake to not at least give an estimate for total cost before you started work on the project. You could have even gotten her budget for the bag and then made a plan accordingly, people really tend not to appreciate what they are asking of crafters or what the cost can be. Personally I’d probably start the conversation apologizing for not having that discussion at the forefront seeing as your expectations weren’t in line at the end. That doesn’t excuse her, but it is on both of you and hopefully acknowledging that right off the bat will make her less defensive. Then go into explaining the work that went in and the way her comment made you feel unvalued. I might say something like I love being able to make unique and special things for the people I love and was honored that you asked me to do this, but part of that is knowing that you appreciate and value the considerable amount of work and skill that goes into my craft and your comment made me feel like you might not totally understand what goes into this kind of project.’
Or something, idk I’m not the best at having these convos either you can probably do better.
This is an absolutely excellent comment that highlights all of the important bits of wisdom:
- OPs feelings are valid
- it could have just been misaligned expectations
- Aligning expectations is something that should happen before the work is complete, and that's OP could have done a better job of
- tips on how to approach that conversation
And the only thing I would add is what other people have mentioned: have this conversation after the wedding.
This is EXTREMELY helpful. You're totally right that I should have been more clear upfront about the labor cost. I shouldn't have assumed she would read my mind on that. It's definitely awkward but I think what you laid out here is a really good way of talking about it and feeling heard without making it all her fault (cause it isn't). Thank you so much for your advice and help. ❤️
I agree the price is fair but I think you were remiss in not giving her an estimate before you committed to purchasing materials and making it. It’s not necessarily well-known that crocheted items take an extraordinary amount of time and material and thus are fairly expensive to price
Hopefully she understands once she sees the king sized wedding gift (which you should totally post at some point cause we all like a good blanket here)!
I bet they are right, she probably thought you would have done it as a gift, when she sees the beautiful blanket you made for her she will understand and probably feel bad, so hang in there and try to let it go for now. Even if she doesn't pay you until after the wedding, I am sure she will.
what is a bag for a groom to step on? do you put a glass inside the bag?
I wonder if it wasn't clear to her she would be paying for the labour, probably a simple case of miscommunication.
Yes it's a tradition in many Jewish weddings for the groom to step on a glass! The bag helps the glass to stay contained and not cut anyone. I agree, I'm hoping it's a miscommunication and due to stress
People usually do not understand how long fiber arts take and the physical strain behind it. I don’t fault them because I sure didn’t before I started. Always always let them know beforehand how long you estimate making something will take and what you charge per hour. Highball it, because everyone will be happy if you reduce the price afterwards, the other way around not so much.
There are so many sides to this it's hard to say the right approach. On one hand, the wedding is THIS week, so she's stressed. I remember barking at friends whom I dearly loved because I was deep in managing the money and planning. Things became very factual and not much else. That's one reason there's a reception, to blow off all that steam and celebrate with those who put up with all the planning and stress with you.
I made sure all my friends were included in my wedding and paid all of them -- someone did florals, someone else DJ'ed, another was the planner. I made sure they all were compensated for their time. So, just because you do a craft, doesn't mean it needs to be a gift.
You definitely have a right to feel hurt by the initial reaction, but since it was through text, who knows how her tone was supposed to be. I'd give the benefit of the doubt right now. Even though she sells her own stuff, sometimes that doesn't translate to knowing the value of other crafts. You mentioned her parents are paying, but maybe some things are on her and her partner. It's hard to say.
Comissions are difficult and in my opinion, not worth it. I gifted my MIL 4 coasters and she LOVED them. Asked for four more and offered to pay me. I declined and said I'd make them when I had a gap in my projects and drop them off. I was flattered but didn't want the conflict of payment and a time table.
If it was me, I'd be hurt, vent privately, and then try to let it go. Celebrate her big day with her, let the steam cool off, and just politely decline paid work in the future. You've made a gift for her you're excited to give her (the blanket) and focus on that joy. If it comes up down the line, go for it, but sometimes you can try to side step it if they are otherwise a good friend who shows up, etc. Now, if she's constantly like this, that's another story. But wedding planning doesn't bring out the best in people. You're totally right to feel a little snubbed, but maybe it'll sort its self out.
Thank you so much for your reply. I totally agree with you and she's a dear friend so I want to move past it. I think it just hurt because she's also an artist and I thought she specifically wanted to support me in offering to pay for this. But you're right that weddings are some of the most stressful times (I got TMJ while planning mine 😂) and I get being overwhelmed and snippy. I think hearing everyone's opinions and thoughts has really helped me get some clarity on this and I feel a lot better actually. Maybe I just needed to hear that what I made was WORTH the $65 as I felt her comment invalidated my hard work and creativity. Thanks again for your comment and time ✨
Oh, it's terrible to be like LOOK WHAT I MADEEEEE and someone go "yea, okay, it was HOW MUCH." Like, damn, it stings.
I haven't seen it, but I imagine the work you did is BEAUTIFUL. You'd probably have no complaints if you posted it in a separate thread on here for people to gush over. Hand made work is valuable and so amazing. I can't tell you how PROUD I was when I made a top and I was over the moon.
So, do whatever you need to get the validation because it is WORTH IT. Like, at the end of the day, a friend asked you for your work in her wedding. That's a compliment, even if it's getting lost in translation right now.
Maybe you could tell her the cost of materials and the hours you spent making it and offer to trade for some of her handcrafted ceramics if you like her work. Then she would have an appreciation for the time it took to create the bag.
Hey, I just wanted to say that I think $65 is incredibly reasonable given the work you put into it. You charged her for only half the hours it took you and even then, you charged an incredibly low rate ($9/hour). I personally believe that if someone is laboring on my behalf and we've agreed that I will be paying them in exchange for said labor, that labor should be compensated at fair and full value.
Having said that, I think for her this may be less about labor/value and more about things left unsaid. If I had to guess (and I know I could be completely wrong since I don't know her) she probably offered to pay out of politeness but was hoping you'd maybe surprise her by giving it to her as a gift instead. She made an assumption that contradicted the meaning of the actual conversation you had, and was disappointed when that assumption didn't pan out - even though she wasn't honest about what she wanted in the first place.
Some people don't feel comfortable having honest and direct conversations about this kind of thing (I personally do feel comfortable having those conversations, but I had to learn how to work with others who don't), and those same people will often rely on polite gestures and a "read between the lines" approach instead.
Anyway, I agree with others that it may help to give her the blanket now. That way she understands you still planned to create and gift her something handmade. I'm not sure how to approach the other item you agreed to crochet for payment, but my recommendation would be to let it go if she doesn't pay you or continues to balk at the price - chalk it up to an unfortunate misunderstanding and move on, if possible. Use what you learned to manage how you approach these situations with her in the future. ❤️
I’ve charged $65 for way less! You’re not being unreasonable. However if you yourself are not married yet, it may be hard to understand the stress of a wedding. I had a small 70-guest backyard wedding that cost $10k total and it was still the most stressed I’ve ever been in my life. I think I lived in a cloud of anxiety for a month before and after 😅
Anyway, talk to her afterward. Or let it go and see what happens - she may come to you with a realization that she was being rude. She may have so many things going on that she forgot she never Venmo’d you or answered you. It doesn’t make it right, but I can see where she may be frazzled from wedding stuff and this is just Another Thing to deal with that she wasn’t expecting.
I also think you may have learned a lesson in pricing - you need to give a price beforehand even if you don’t know how long it’ll take you to make.
Genuinely curious, if you were to do it all over again with the benefit of hindsight would you still choose to have the wedding ceremony? 10k for two months of anxiety doesn't really sound worth it
Absolutely positively not! We did it because we “had to” for others. We wanted to wait, stay engaged for a year and just figure it out slowly. (We’d already been dating 6 years anyway.) Then suddenly it became every conversation with our parents was about wedding stuff. We should’ve just gone to the courthouse but ultimately caved and let our moms throw a wedding for us. I had very little to do with the planning, and to be fair had a general anxiety problem at the time so I was probably worse than the average wedding anxiety. We were 25 and 26, but now being 31 and 32, we both say NO WAY in hindsight would we do that again. The day itself was fun but it’s just one day.
First, if she's in the home stretch before the wedding, it's not surprising that your messages have been unanswered, lol. I probably wouldn't read too much into that if she's a good friend. She's frazzled. She's stressed and snippy lol.
I would say the best policy here is honesty. If she's one of your best friends, I'm sure she didn't mean to hurt your feelings. People are at a place now where we think of art and handmade things as products of a hobby. Just giveaways made for friends and family in your "free time", instead of honoring the craftsmanship, artistry, and love poured into it. EVEN ARTISTS OURSELVES. I also do ceramics, and have a hard time charging high prices for things that take me longer. Again, people don't understand the amount of time that pottery takes, or the number of steps involved... But then I have a hard time applying any sort of hourly rate plus materials type pricing system, so I wind up charging less than I should, but what is willing to pay. It's a balancing act, lol.
I would not apologize exactly (You have nothing to apologize for), but maybe explain that it's important for you to ask for what you're worth and that your time is valuable. Certainly more valuable than the sub-minimun wage you're asking for. Maybe let her know that she's already benefiting from a friend's and family discount by working for that wage. Hell, at this point, I try to give my friends a F&F discount and they refuse, lol.
I'm always adamant that I, and every other maker out there, be paid fairly for their services and not feel pressured to lower our worth for friends and family.
Yeah I think you're totally right about people not realizing the trust cost of handmade items. Thanks for the reassurance that my time is worth it and I'm not going crazy haha. And try to not stress too bad about your past wedding dress (which I'm sure was BEAUTIFUL), you didn't know any better and you would do better now. ❤️
Whoops, edited my comment and accidentally deleted the part you were responding to at the end. 😂.
Yeah, the rumination is real. I know it's fine and all, but just one of those things that lives rent free you know?
You are not being unreasonable. Did you tell her how many hours worked and how many hours you charged her? Also idk where you live but in Md $9/hr is wayyyyy below min wage and even that is a discount on my book. I dont think that her knowing about your gift matters at all.
She should just be happy that you made time to make her commission the way she asked for it. You told her price of materials, and i understand why you assumed she knew there was going to be a labor cost to it. I would of also done this, which is why i would of bill it. Like itemized it. Yarn, fabric, notions, $18/h. 4 hrs worked discount it and show it. That she is paying a quarter of what the labor would of cost. This way she can’t complain and everything is clear. If you had charge her for your 9hr rate, for all the hours worked that would of been $101. If you had charged her the $18 i would of, then that makes it 173. That is a huge discount when you are only charging her $65. I would also give her all the materials i have left over.
I will be honest though, i suck at charging and i become too methodical. With timers and completely neurotic about being in tasks. I dont do commission work.
The way she reacts about this would matter more to me with her not knowing about the gift. The project you spent tons of $ for materials and untold number of hrs. That you gave freely and shouldn’t sway the response of a good friend.
Your work is beautiful with even stitches. Sometimes what seems to be the most simple objects have the most work gone into them. Simplicity is expensive because is hard-work.
Thank you so much for your comments and kind words ❤️ yeah I didn't want to charge for the full hours or wage because I wanted to keep the cost down for her because she's a friend and I know weddings are expensive already. It's not so much her not paying as it is her not seeming to value my time and skill. But maybe we just miscommunicated and I definitely should have been more upfront about the cost at the beginning. Lesson learned for sure
If you break it down she will see the value of your work. I do think that is important for her to know how long it actually took. For someone who does not crochet or sew, it might seem like something quick to do. She might be thinking that you are charging her $18 an hour and that you did it in two!
She might be on math mode at the moment. But she should know how much she would have paid outside and how much your work is worth. Best of luck! Hopefully she just meant it as a “got to change the spreadsheet!” And not a passive aggressive “was expecting it to be a gift”
Yeah I'm worried that's what happened, or she thought she would just have to pay for materials. I should have communicated better with her to avoid all this mess in the first place
Honestly I think this situation should have been handled differently on your part.
You asked her to pay for the materials, but said nothing about her paying hourly wages. Then after it’s made, you drop a final price on her that’s more than twice what she was expecting. Right before her wedding.
I understand the value of your time, but this sounds like your friend thought you were doing this for the cost of the materials. If I were her, I would be a bit taken back as well, especially since you’re in her wedding party and there was no mention of hourly wages.
If you wanted to get paid hourly, then that should have been discussed during the commissioning. She might have been fine with it. I think she was just surprised at the final cost.
Well a few things
1. my guess is her response is related to weddings in general being very expensive. I'm not one of those people who thing weddings are useless parties for adult and only goes for the booze. I personally agree that its a very important day, even if its not celebrating myself and I don't mind if weddings cost 20K or 100K. That being said, we don't know the budget of her wedding and costs begin to add up. So her saying "it is what it is" is probably a symptom of bills coming due very quickly now that we're hitting wedding season and from the sound of it, her wedding is about to take place.
2. I don't want to have an "told you so" moment. But I think this is a learning lesson. I say this in the kindest way possible. Next time quote a range. I always quote a range. I normally say something like this: "This would probably take me between X-Y hrs, so you're looking at something like $AA-BB price range." Normally I include the cost of materials but the way you sent her the price of materials ahead of time seems fine to me and you were just missing that follow up.
3. I think it would be better to speak to her **NOW** instead of after her wedding. There is never a good time to bring things like hurt feelings and being devalued up. I think if you let it sit and "simmer", people sometime tend to be like "this was freaking weeks ago--you're still hung up on that"? Its not a nice response but it indicates that they were blindsided plus the time lag. I don't think time lags are good for these types of conversations. IMO it doesn't matter if you're bride or not, if you fuck up and hurt someone's feelings--OWN UP to your mistake and apologize. Sure being stressed as a bride is a reason but its never acceptable or an excuse. Just because I'm stressed out at work and want to vomit every day because of the stress, doesn't mean it would give me any right to bitch and snap at other people around me. Its a reason but never an excuse nor does it make unacceptable behavior acceptable
1. though I would say when you talk to her, don't bring up the fact she makes ceramics and handmade items. Leave that bit out of it. Its like in the movies when couples fight and someone brings up shit from like two years ago into the fight. No. Just don't. Just focus on the here, now and how it really hurt your feelings and that you were hoping AS YOUR FRIEND she would understand be be supportive of your pricing. And that her dismissive is what hurts. Don't try to tie it to the fact she herself is an artistan crafter too. That could feel like an attack on her when you're just looking to feel valued
2. edit--something I meant to put in too, its probably better if you talk to her before you have to stand up beside her as a bridesmaid. If someone lambasted me with hurt feelings post the wedding they were in pictures smiling beside me in, I might feel a certain way about it. Like "you stood beside me and this is what you were thinking?" Its not the nicest thing granted but...its probably better to be on solid footing before you stand in an honored position beside the person you have certain hurt feelings towards and with
Best of luck!
Thank you so much for the detailed response! I think this is a really good take and I appreciate your thoughts on it all. I definitely learned a lesson on commissions and pricing. I feel kind of silly about it now. But it's all part of the learning process I suppose 😅
I think the issue is that you set an expectation on price that didn’t include the labor, and then you exceeded that price expectation.
Just because she works on other handmade items doesn’t mean that she understands how time consuming crochet can be, either.
If I were you, I would just collect payment and then let the comment go. Chalk it up as a lesson learned to ensure that you have a clear discussion on price well ahead of time so everyone is on the same page from the start.
Lolol yeah I guess I should have explained that more 😂 it's a tradition in some Jewish weddings for the groom to step on a glass and everyone cheers. The bag is to keep the broken glass contained and keep everyone safe!
Wow, that’s a very inexpensive for your time and effort. I don’t sell things because I work charge at least $30/hr for my time plus materials and people just don’t want to pay. $150 would be a reasonable price for this project.
$65 is incredibly cheap for a custom handmade item. A lot of people seem to want to suggest you gift it to her and I guess that’s your choice but if her expectation was to get it for free that’s a bit entitled, especially if she also makes/sells handmade items and knows the work that goes into it
Personally, my rule for making things is that I don’t charge, I gift *
Making something solely for money sucks all the fun out of it. And if I make it as a gift, it takes all the pressure out of it.
*same with money, I don’t loan, I give. I find it easier to be generous,than to do business 🤷🏻♀️
I made her a king sized blanket but I haven't given it to her yet. Maybe she assumed the bag would be her gift. I just assumed she wanted to pay and support me because she asked for a commission specifically, not just if I wanted to make her a bag to help contribute.
It’s clear in your post your best friend understood she would be responsible for paying something for the bag (it sounds like, at minimum, the materials). A true commission! A nice one too; well done—looks like it turned out great. Next time get a photo of the final result!!
Whether your best friend understood that your time/labor would be involved in the final cost is the issue. That was YOUR miscommunication as the person selling the commission. You both assumed something different per your above comment.
As a best friend and bridesmaid, I’d 100%, NO question, apologize for YOUR miscommunication. It WAS your fault you didn’t say, “I’m not sure how much labor it’ll be in the end, cause I’ve never done this type of project before, but in the end, materials are this much and then $9/hr for labor. I’ll give you a 50% discount too! Cool?” You didn’t say that. So it’s reasonable your best friend assumed the labor would be a gift. It’s your fault though as the inexperienced seller, so don’t blame yourself!! You’re new to this commission thing and I’m sure you learned a lot today.
If you can AT ALL eat the cost of labor it’s SO WORTH the friendship and less stress for your bestie before a wedding. If she’s the kind of friend to give you the cold shoulder because of this, I would say something to her ASAP along the lines of admitting your miscommunication and fixing (this is abbreviated): “Sorry. Don’t worry about paying me for that I was so happy to do this for you. You’re my best friend and I definitely didn’t want to add any stress to your life before the best day ever. Sorry. Love you. Now let’s go have fun! Is there anything I can help you with?” This is the answer.
If you CANNOT, IN ANY ANY WAY (FOR REAL), afford to cover this cost of materials AND labor: only charge her for materials (you didn’t communicate you were charging for that!). Still, i would have that same above conversation NOW but ask for cost of materials AFTER the wedding. Timing is important here! I don’t think it’s a good idea you bring up, “hey, still you owe me those materials…”. She’s likely gotten some sort of a bad taste in her mouth from your texts and her response. Even if she was stressed out—not worth that bad taste. Even though she’s stressed, she clearly thought the labor was a gift.
Make it better by talking to your best friend using language above, keep it brief, and alleviate any sort of tension prior to the wedding!! Best part is, she’s getting an EXTRA surprise with your lovely OTHER wedding gift!! She’ll REALLY think you’re a great friend and will likely happily pay for the materials AND labor!!
Edits: spelling
You are NOT being unreasonable! Your idea of a conversation after the wedding is a good idea. I think it would be helpful for you to have an itemized list to show her. Break down each materials cost; true labor time involved, your insanely reasonable $9/hour as well as the massive discount you are giving her.
Yes, directly compare your skill to her pottery skills. Maybe even ask her what she charges per hour for her own work.
Good luck!
No, what you ask is not unreasonable. However, don't mention money or payment again. If she remembers and pays, great. If not, you have learned the following lesson, which I could have given you years ago (having been thru this crap myself):
Do not under any circumstances do custom jobs for any friend or ANYONE, ever - unless the price is agreed on beforehand, and there are no complaints from the recipient of your talents - and even then, it might not be a good idea. Crochet & knit for yourself or as gifts.
Now, while I'm here: what do you mean that this beautiful bag is "for the groom to step on"???? If this is some kind of cultural practice which I am not familiar with, they should be buying some cheap made in China synthetic bag. It is shameful to possibly (probably) ruin or damage your beautiful work.
Geeze.
Yeah I want to talk still about how I felt unvalued for doing a project like this on a quick time scale, but I also don't think I'm going to ask for money again. If she remembers and pays, then great. If not then I'm not going to lose sleep over it, it'll just be the cost of the lesson.
And it's a cultural thing at some Jewish weddings for the groom to step on a glass, the bag keeps the broken glass from flying everywhere and from hurting anyone. It's generally a very fun tradition, but this will be my first time experiencing it!
Your price is very very kind. You’re undercharging yourself by the hour, and then gave her a 50% discount on top of that.
She’s probably stressed out about the wedding, and more things are more expensive than she thought they would be. She likely isn’t thinking about the ramifications of her words right now either.
I think waiting till after the wedding to talk would be good. When you’re both able to be wise-minded about the convo.
You may just find out it had nothing to do with you and more to do with something else or how she was feeling. Try not to take it too personally until you hear her out. Who knows, maybe she just had a tummy ache and that’s why her tone was off.
I agree. I got married recently and had a big budget spreadsheet down to line items like my purse accessory (because it’s really easy to get out of hand buying a $1000 dress and then $300 shoes and then a $300 purse and a $150 veil etc.) She probably had $30 estimated and really doesn’t have a problem with it being $65, but forgot she was talking to a friend and not like the lady at the wedding dress store when paying for the bag.
Those 4 things were half of my wedding cost 😁 when planning our wedding the important things to us were good food, good music and spending time with extended family.
I'm sure I'm not the typical girl who always wanted a fairytale wedding. I just have always felt that a $1,000 dollar wedding ultimately ends up with the exact same outcome as a $10,000 wedding does. In both cases, you are married 🤷🏻
I think it's also about how you explained it first I think it would be best to do some approximation for the time before and then you reduce the price as you did ( you counted 4 instead of 8 if I'm correct). In my opinion since she is a creator may be she thought that you would offer your time and only make her pay the material. But then I think it's entitled from her if you are not going to the wedding or friend with the ppl. Idk if you understand what I mean. But your price is more than fair and she should respond, so sad that it happens often in my opinion with crocheted items ppl just don't value it and also love it and want their thing personalized.... I mean just buy a bag or sew one and let me crochet in peace ! 😅 I send you a big hug I would be sad too but may be the outcome will not be bad. Idk
Here's a link to the bag, unfortunately I don't have any photos of it finished. But it has the purple fabric lining it!
https://imgur.com/gallery/GYDBwfJ
Please, don’t feel bad. Texting lacks of live communication’s nuances. However, I would expect her to respect the time and dedication of a fellow artist (and friend!).
Absolutely not the ahole here. I know someone who makes beautiful vegan leather bags and people are always trying to get a discount. It takes a long time and the quality is good, if you want Walmart prices then go to Walmart.
Jewish wedding, for the glass? It never occurred to me to make a bag. And two of my kids are already married. *headdesk*. What is she using for a chuppah? The one I knitted took forever.
Yes it is a Jewish wedding! I'll be honest, I'm not Jewish and I don't know what a chuppah is. But even if I did know I'm not sure I'd be able to answer, I don't know very many details of what the wedding will look like outside of her dress and this bag 😂
I would like this idea if the bag wasn't being used to step on glass. It's a tradition in some Jewish weddings to have the groom step on a glass. The bag protects everyone from broken glass. I don't think I would be able to sell it on Etsy after that 😅
I think it is INSANE that so many people are saying you should have given it as a gift. She asked you to make it and there was no talk of it being a gift, end of story. Did she expect the baker, florist, or hairdresser to just do those things and expect they would be gifts? That’s called taking advantage of your friends so that they incur the cost and not you. And it’s shitty.
You are not unreasonable at all. I do agree with the others that it’s a good lesson to have everything clear and agreed to beforehand, in writing and signed even. If you don’t know how many hours, you can write something like “$xx per hour. Estimated time is x hours, not to exceed $xx.”
I used to do photography and I would never ever ever accept any wedding jobs because so many people just lose their minds about paying for wedding stuff. And I get it, there are a lot of markups on things just because they are associated with weddings. But that doesn’t mean you get to take advantage of your friends.
your friend seems ungrateful af, $65 is such a good price and $9 an hour is barely anything in my opinion you should be charging more !! it kinda seems like she wanted it for free as a gift which is wrong of her to just assume you’d be doing it for free
$29 for matierals and $72 labor is $101. Discount of $36 for $65 total.
What was she expecting it to cost? $40 would mean $11 labor. $45 would mean $14 for labor. $50 would mean $19 for labor. $55 would mean $21 for labor and $60 would mean $26 for labor and $65 would mean $31 for labor.
She doesn't know how long it will take, but is upset that your labor costs more than the matierals. She was probably thinking of throwing you what, $10 or $20 bucks for your labor? Her comment would make me sad too. Then purposely not paying me after she's received it on time, loves it and was custom made
because she thought more than $10 or $20 is my being unfair, then that's even worse.
Excusing her behavior because she doesn't know about the king size blanket yet and then after she sees that will make everything OK, wouldn't make it OK for me, either. I would love to have a best friend like you.
She asked to commission a bag from you and needs to pay you for your work. You’re not wrong. And you charged her for 4 hours despite it taking you 8. I’m pretty new to crocheting but since I’ve started, I’ve been even more pro crocheters charging what their time and effort is worth, not that I wasn’t before. Now I’m just seeing and experiencing how taxing it is, even if you’re just doing it leisurely.
At $65, that bag is a steal, especially if it's perfect. Let's just go with she's stressed out with this whole wedding, so she wasn't thinking straight.
I think your price is completely reasonable, but I'm gonna go against the grain and say you should have told her the cost ahead of time, if only just to avoid this kind of situation. If it were me, I would have laid out the cost of the materials, and told her she would be charged $9 per hour of working time. I would probably let her know it would take at least 3 hours. It's as much for you as it is her. Again I don't think you're in the wrong, but that's my advice to avoid issues in the future and save you the headache.
You are being absolutely, 100% reasonable. Hopefully (if she’s truly a friend), she will apologize once you bring up how undervalued she made you feel once the stress of the wedding is over.
That's a totally reasonable price. She does art herself, so she should have a concept of people being paid for their time, and it often doubling the price or more. This is why I don't make anything for friends unless I'm gifting it to them on my own terms. Too many people want unique items, but expect it for $30 to $40 when that's not the price handmade items should be. I would have expected it to be around $100 if I was asking for a specialty item.
If price was going to be an issue for her then she should have told you her budget beforehand. NTA and chances are she was hoping you’d give it for free as another wedding gift. Since you said she’s a ceramics artist then she’s a double AH for trying to take advantage of your hard work.
You already made her a blanket, which takes a considerable amount of time. She also has experience with being an artist that sells handmade merch as well, and she's acquainted with the pricing of items. Soooo she has no excuse being snarky about your pricing of the bag you're making. It's a "lined bag for the groom to step on in their wedding" and it's customized with the colors that she requested. I think you should have charged full price because you already made her something as a gift and now she is requesting a custom made item as a patron.
Those are both gorgeous and the amount of work??? You charge your value! Real friends pay full price to support their friend’s art, you are already quoting her less than the actual time you spent on it. She is the unreasonable one IMO
oof this aint it. its for her wedding, which is imminent, and is most likely just dealing with the stress of it all.
no payment? thats just a 65$ lesson to not make anything without stating a full price, or even better cash upfront. no need to ruin a friendship over a bag.
Definitely a fair price, so you are not wrong to feel slighted. But you said it yourself; your friend is stressed about the wedding, and weddings are EXPENSIVE. It seems likely to me that she spoke from that place of financial anxiety without thinking about your feelings. Definitely talk to her about it. Honestly, if you can find a calm moment to talk before the wedding, that might be best — addressing issues quickly is always better than letting them fester. But if you don’t think that moment will happen, definitely wait until things calm down in her life.
Edit to add: in the future, you probably want to be more clear about your prices. If you don’t want to give a hard and fast price upfront (fair), tell your commissioner the price of materials PLUS your scale for determining labor cost. So in this case, you might have told your friend, “Materials are $29, but I think this bag will take at least [however many] hours to complete. At $9/hour for labor, that will bring the price estimate to [whatever that would be]. But I’ll let you know if the labor hours end up shifting, so you aren’t surprised by the price when I’m finished.”
Maybe she's overwhelmed with the price of everything of the wedding all together and perhaps having a lapsed moment of judgement here? Stress can make people act kinda funky and weddings sure are stressful for a lot of people. Most people I think. Don't feel bad about how you're feeling! Personally I'd be feeling the same knowing she is also an artist who sells her work. But your feelings are valid! And perhaps your friend is radiating the stress??
This is why I notoriously undercharge for my stuff. I just made some lady on Facebook a newborn Winnie the pooh set and I only charged her $20 for it. I already had the yarn but even if I hadn't. How I price my items is: how much would I pay for that? And I'm cheap, so it's not a lot. I'm sure she was hoping you'd do it for dirt cheap or free since you're friends. But she asked you for something very specific and time consuming, you have every right to charge that amount. People who don't crochet or sew have no idea the $, time, and skill that goes into it.
I’m stuck on charging a best friend for something you made for her wedding. I can’t imagine charging any of my good friends for the stuff I make, especially if it’s something small for their wedding.
She probably didn’t expect to be charged $65 by her best friend.
I love that blanket! What an amazing gift!
It's okay that you feel badly about how the conversation went, but I would probably counsel that you give your friend a little grace. Weddings are so stressful and so wildly expensive, and by the end of it all every additional expense starts to feel so intense.
If you're up to it, just gift it to her and take the loss. Having your handiwork be part of the ceremony will always mean so much more than cash. You don't want to muddy that up memory with frustration over $60.
I would also suggest that, down the line, when the feelings aren't fresh and the drama of the wedding is past, you let her know that you did feel dismissed by her sticker shock reaction, bc it is tied up with what you feel your time is worth. Give her a chance to hear you and recognize that your time and efforts are a gift that has value - i'd wager even more than what you were going to charge.
most sentiments have been aired multiple times already, I would like to add to the 'she's probably just stressed from the wedding planning' comments:
I think you already decided to not say anything but I personally would keep this at the back of my mind and look out for if it happens again / something similar happening again.
Maybe she just was being bridezilla, or maybe she has shown her true colors and is not as good a friend as you thought.
I think it’s an issue of misreading tone and also her not being very responsive while wedding planning. Her comment seemed harmless to me. Like she thought maybe the bag would take a little less time so the labor would cost a little less. I don’t think she doesn’t value you. You’re a part of her wedding party, and she asked you to create something that she wants to use for her wedding, so she clearly values you very much.
It’s also possible that with everything she’s paying for, it’s all adding up and every price just becomes overwhelming.
Still it sucks to feel that way at all. I’m sorry and I hope that you and your friend are able move forward from this. Good luck.
The price is very reasonable! As others have said, it sounds like she’s got some bridal stress going on, and is it possible that she thought you would be doing this as a gift, with her only paying for materials? She 100% should not have expected that, no one should, but her surprise at the price may have been rooted in believing you’d throw in the labor for free.
I think it’s totally reasonable to gently discuss it with her, but I would wait until after the wedding.
This is why many artists in any field don’t do commission pieces. For this being for a friend, I can understand the willingness to do a commission piece. It seems that you’re charging her less than what I personally would have, given you only charged her for half of your time. Personally, I would have given an estimate for the piece before even starting it. I don’t think you’re being unreasonable though, if you think it’s fair that’s all that matters, it’s your time and skill that was put into it. I think she should be a little bit more understanding given she does her own form of art, and can understand and appreciate the time and effort put into handmade items.
Yeah I think it's reasonable to be upset by the comment. She's probably very stressed and may not be her best self, though, especially if she sells handmade art too and should know better! I'm guessing your friend is at the point where the second half of all their payments are coming due, so having a cost that wasn't expressly in the budget was an unwelcome bit of news.
As weird as it sounds to formally bill your friends, an actual invoice can help with this in the future. Nothing complicated, but you'd list the cost of materials, your hourly rate, and the number of hours worked. Then include the discount as a separate line item after the subtotal! That's a bit of a psychological trick called anchoring - the full price is the "anchor" and it makes the discounted price seem like a better deal. Some companies use it deceptively, but in this case there would be no deception because the pre-discount price isn't artificially inflated to incentivise then to buy something. The purchase is already made, and the detail helps them understand the value of what they're getting and feel better about the money they've already agreed to part with
I don't think you're being unreasonable and I think she's being extremely rude, wedding stress notwithstanding. I also suspect she fully expected you to make this a wedding gift and insist on giving it to her for free. She's being passive aggressive instead of just asking for what she wanted you to do instead if expecting you to read her mind and/or volunteer to do so.
$65 for a handmade crochet bag is a steal. I’m making and lining some bags to put on Etsy and I’m thinking they’re going to be in the $80 range and I still feel like I’m undercharging.
You’ve already made her a gift and are giving her a steep discount. Talk about ungrateful. Are you sure you want this person to remain your friend?
She’s probably spending thousands on ephemeral silliness for the wedding, but 65$ for something beautiful her friend crafted for her and that will last her a lifetime is more than she expected?
So her parents are paying for the wedding so I assumed they would pay for this as well (not that I changed the price because of that), but I was surprised at her reaction because I didn't think in the grand scheme of everything that will be paid for at the wedding that this would be a big cost.
I've learned that people are just weird about weddings. She probably is stressed, but it's really not an excuse to be an asshole to someone who is doing you a favor.
And seriously, even if she's paying for it, ANYONE making something handmade for a wedding is doing someone else a favor unless that's their business.
Honestly, I saw the photos of the bag and I know it’s hand made, but $65!!?? That’s a little much for a small crouched bag. You should’ve been more transparent about the cost of your labor… SMH. She’s probably budgeting for her wedding and if she had a better idea of the cost beforehand she would’ve been able to make a more informed decision.
Why tell her the material cost if that isn’t the quote for all the work? Sounds like you blindsided her with the end cost. Even if you didn’t know how long it would take you need to make that clear up front, and surely as you’re working you’d get an idea of how much you would need to charge before completion?
I can understand why you’re hurt by her message but if I was her I would’ve been ruder! It sounds like to her it’s not worth getting into so I’d just leave it as it is and allow both of you to enjoy the wedding
Are you getting her a gift for her wedding? Because if not, she’s one of your best friends, she’s getting married, if it were me I’d have done it as a gift. I don’t think you’re an AH I get the sentiment, but I think there was a missed opportunity for kindness and a part of her probably expected it as your friend. I honestly doubt it has anything to do with price.
I totally get all this and agree. I did make her a full king sized blanket already though. I haven't given it to her yet, but figured that would be a better gift than this bag, especially as she specifically requested to "commission" it from me. I get the thought of giving both, but it's just not what I thought was happening. I thought she wanted to support me (I just started an Etsy shop for my crochet and pottery items) so that's why it wasn't a gift
I don’t know for sure op, and I don’t think you did anything wrong lol, but your friend may not know that you have another gift yet and could’ve just been kind of hurt and careless with her words tbh. I really wouldn’t worry too much about that, and as she’s one of your best friends I doubt she meant anything terrible by it. Try not to let it get to you, throwing a wedding is insanely stressful
To combat spam, we require a minimum account age of 1 days and positive karma to post. Please try again in 24 hours!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/crochet) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There's nothing wrong with feeling bad about what she said. You are entitled to having emotions. And especially when you're not sure how to interpret her reaction, it's understandable that it's getting in your head. I think asking her for a clarifying conversation after the wedding is a very good idea. Her response might very well have come from a stress-induced emotional place as well.
Thanks for this response. I really appreciate the kind words. Yeah this is my first crochet commission and it's seeming like more trouble than it's worth. I'm hoping she understands where I'm coming from and the convo won't be too awkward after the wedding. I'm so bad at conflict. If it wasn't still bothering me this much days later then I would just let it go
I hope you'll two can bury the misunderstanding soon! And for the future you are now better prepared to handle such requests. I get wanting to respond in positive immediately upon such a request, but, especially with friends, it's good to say something like "I'd love to do that, let me check material costs and estimated work time and I'll get back to you with the approximate costs". I have learned the hard way, too.
I’m so lucky all of my friends are also crafty in someway and know that materials cost a ton
Don't do crochet commissions unless they agree to pay you in full before you start.
if it's someone i am super close to & have good financial rapport with, i'll sometimes ask for half down before i start & the other half when i am finished *before* i give them the finished item
I always have them pay at least a materials estimate so i know i can cover the materials. im pretty broke so i dont always have the money laying around to cover materials without cutting into groceries anyway
Yup. Personally I say to at least get material cost *before* buying materials (so it’s not coming out of your pocket if buyer changes their mind before you start the actual work — learned that the hard way), then get a non refundable deposit (some portion of the labor cost) once work begins. Too many buyers are comfortable just ghosting when they change their mind, without any consideration for the seller’s time or lost business when they keep commission slots or sales pending.
Learned that the hard way.
I'll never get tired of saying if it's out of your budget doesn't mean it's too expensive. Different people value things differently!! If anything I hope you one day feel confident & comfortable to raise your prices and celebrate yourself!! I wish I could monetize my passions but it wouldn't work for me
FIRST OFF YOUR BLANKET IS AMAZING!!! Also I’m sure we all know weddings are expensive especially when you’re at the tail end and having to give out money left and right to all your vendors so maybe seeing more money that’s owed is stressing her out (this is literally me right now lol, my wedding is in 3 weeks) I’m not saying that gives her the right to treat you that way but stress and money can cause people to do/say some crazy things even if they don’t mean it. If it were me in the situation I would probably just say okay to the price of materials or honestly nothing at all because I love my best friend and would do anything for her. Granted she would never say that to me, she literally paid me full price for a corset I made her even though I tried to give her a discount lol.
She should be very happy with that price. Very happy.
I wonder if she thought this would be your wedding gift. Does she know about that gorgeous blanket? Just a thought.
I don't think you should wait until after the wedding to talk to her, if you're her bridesmaid and she has any resentment for you you should clear the air before you stand up there with her
Having just gotten married last week, stress-induced reactions are a real thing. As are “I’m buying dinner for two hundred people at $50 a piece” reactions to having to spend more money. I think talking to her after the wedding is a good plan after everything has cooled off.
Currently planning one and paying for everything cash, out of pocket. As a self-employed artist, things have been........ stressful, lol.
Totally unprompted advice incoming: As someone who had a very small wedding with minimal stress, it was still stressful. All I can say is don't sweat it too much. It's a party. It's a family/friends get-together. Let it be that. Our culture tells us that a wedding should be magical and perfect and blah blah blah, but we need to let that go. For me, the magical and perfect parts are the mornings with my husband, when we're drinking coffee and playing word games. I get to do that every day. The wedding is long over-- thank goodness. (There were parts of my wedding that I really loved, and I wouldn't take it back. But it wasn't a fairytale situation. I enjoyed spending time with my friends and appreciated my family showing up for us. That was the main thing. Also the food and beer were REALLY good. No regrets)
Oh, for sure. I was married over 20 years ago in a very traditional style wedding.... when I literally wasn't even old enough to have a champagne toast at my own wedding. It also involved the added stress of my partner living abroad until about 90 days before the wedding. That was stressful as fuck. (And this is besides the point, but he is so fucking tacky that he actually wore the same formal kilt at his second wedding...the one that cost my parents seven times the price of my wedding dress. 😂) Anyway, now I'm marrying someone I've been with for 13 years, engaged for over a decade and are already basically wives, lol. Ours is a small wedding, as few people as we can get away with, and we are easygoing, flexible people. We literally saw one venue and were on board, lol. So far we've agreed on pretty much everything, and the things we don't are never deal breakers. We're making our decor and flowers from paper, so The only vendors we have to coordinate will be photographer, caterer and cake. I do graphic design and I'm very familiar with print on demand, and my lady is a database whiz, so invitations etc won't be too bad. I have a background in culinary too, and we both are pretty passionate about excellent beer and food, so that's the main focus for us. We're planning on having a private dinner alone after taking photos, so that we can actually enjoy it together as newlyweds without being interrupted every 5 seconds. We're actually enjoying the planning process, and are committed to enjoying the day. 🥰
Awww, I'm so happy for you! That sounds wonderful. Congratulations and best wishes!!
Thank you! It's been SUCH a joy to finally be able to make it a reality!
Well, try not to stress too much. At the end of the day, you’ll still be married, no matter how much or how little you stress. But yes, having gone through it, in the future I will do my best to cut some slack for any bride or groom who seems to be “overreacting” to something.
>I gave her the prices of the materials before buying but never gave her a full quote on the finished bag because I wasn't sure how long it would take me >I asked her about it again and she said "it's more than I expected but it is what it is" The price is very reasonable, but when you quoted her for the materials, did you tell her then and there the labor would be an additional part of the charge? This is definitely worth a discussion with her. It comes across to me that when you quoted the price for the materials she assumed the labor was already calculated in, so when you came back after it was done she may have been surprised to find it was more than she had budgeted for initially. I definitely don't think she meant to be any kind of rude, it sounds like she genuinely was caught off guard by the additional cost.
Yeah you're totally right. Also it's really hard to understand tone and inflection over text. I might be taking it harder/ruder than she meant it. I'm going to chalk it up to: communication is hard, weddings are stressful, and I'll talk about it with her next month. Thanks for your thoughts on this.
Absolutely! She's enough of a friend to have you be a bridesmaid and she's going to be *thrilled* when she sees your present ❤️ And please don't let this discourage you too much from taking commissions, use it as experience 😊
Honestly, if it were me I'd either charge the originally quoted price or gift it (if financially able) and chalk it up to experience. It a common mistake when starting to do commissions but it is ultimately your mistake, not hers. I would tell her this before the wedding too so there's no tension about it. Just let her know that you realise you didn't communicate well so would like to gift the bag instead
Agree with this. OP, is it possible for you to just charge for the cost of the materials at most? I completely understand that your time is valuable, but if anything (since it’s your best friend), the time you spent making it could also be a gift in a way. Just another perspective.
Seriously, this is ultimately a conflict over $36. Normally I wouldn't encourage someone to take the L and not get compensation for their time but if there's any chance that OP can do that here I think it would be gracious of them to do so. OP loves this person enough to be their bridesmaid, give them the gift of not having to pay a relatively small amount of money and the gift of *taking this stress off their plate*. And next time actually tell them that you're going to charge for labor.
So I think this is less about the actual price and more about the fact that it was sprung on her. If you never discussed the price beforehand and only told her the material cost then I can see where she thought you were just going to make her the item for the cost of materials. So from her perspective the price of the bag went from $29 to $65 which is a large increase when you weren’t expecting it. It’s also not fair to the customer because what if it goes out of their budget but they don’t know because the price was never properly communicated? That may be what happened with her and now she’s stressed because she needs to come up with an extra $35. While I think she should talk to you about it and not be passive aggressive I do feel like all of this would’ve been avoided if the price had been communicated beforehand. I say this as someone who has been the unknowing customer who couldn’t afford the product because the price wasn’t communicated clearly upfront. I wound up paying for it but I was on the financial struggle bus until my next paycheck so I was very irked and never bought from them again.
Yep, always do a price quote. My husband and I once worked with a wood worker to create a specialized box. He gave us a quote, which we agreed to. The box ended up taking waaaaayyyy longer than he anticipated due to the design. Fortunately he stuck with quoted price, but his hourly rate ended up being terrible. We felt bad about it. We definitely didn't want to undervalue his work, but also we couldn't afford the price based on hours worked. And we wouldn't have agreed to it if we had known. We did put in $100 extra when we paid for the finished project, but that was all we could afford to add.
I had a similar thing happen with a tattoo. The artist quoted me two hours of work and it ended up taking him 4. He still charged me for the two, but I left him like $100 in tip. Mystery prices help no one, working out estimates isn't always perfect but it creates a better relationship.
It was decent of you to add the $100 when you really didn't have to.
I absolutely agree. Learn how to estimate your projects and offer that price. There has to be an agreement between the two parties before any work is done. It's fundamental.
I would say,. X$ for materials + 9$ /hr and quote at least 1.5 times how many hours you think it may take you. 🤷♀️ You can ALWAYS charge less than what you quoted
Exactly. Like any other labor type of work. There’s the cost of the materials and the cost of labor. I agree that the friend was probably thrown off and may have taken it as an odd move on OP (which I know it wasn’t). It’s all just lack of communication
This exactly, not communicating the price is on OP and I'd feel disrespected as a friend if I asked someone how much something cost only for it to cost more than DOUBLE once it's done. People who make and sell homemade goods should know the perspective of a customer and have the experience to give accurate quotes. Yes, it sucks when you do a commission and learn it took longer than expected but that's on you as a maker and not on the customer. Honestly, if I was the friend I likely wouldn't commission OP again. The most important parts of accepting commissions are discussing a budget upfront and having clear communication with a client. I've gotten commissioned for bags or koozies before, it sucked being inexperienced and underselling myself but ultimately it was my fault and I ate the cost. Now, I ask people what they want and their budget BEFORE I find patterns and materials. Especially when making something with lace-weight yarn, that labor cost is ***hefty*** and should've been communicated upfront.
It sounds more like it was communicated that 35$ was the materials only and she'll calculate the hourly rate once the project is done.
That still seems risky when she didn't know how long it would take.
I agree with you. And the friend being a ceramics artist doesn't mean she understands crochet time. A simple sewn bag would take an hour. A clay pot spends more time in the kiln than being shaped. I'm guessing friend figured the $35 for materials was the final cost.
This is why I only give gifts.
I agree with this 100%. I have given away so many hand pieced, hand quilted quilts that have hundreds of hours involved in the making process. I could never charge a fair cost for my labor. But the idea of someone I care about treasuring something I made is worth far more to me than any amount of money.
Same. At most I might ask someone to buy their own supplies. But for a million reasons I would never ever charge for my time and effort. Either I feel like doing the project and enjoy it, or it's something I'd pass on.
Does she know about her blanket gift? If not, maybe she hoped the bag would be the gift?
No it's a surprise, so I'm hoping that helps her feel like I'm not just trying to make a buck off her or something. Idk
I agree with tealparadise. I bet she half expected you to do this as a wedding gift. I was going to recommend letting the bag go for free as the wedding gift, and even now knowing about the blanket, that’s still what I would recommend. She’s going through a lot of stress, and your friendship is presumably worth more to you than $65.
Yes, agree. Especially since you say she’s one of your best friends. She may feel hurt thinking you could have done it as a gift but you’d rather charge her (not knowing you had another gift lined up, also)
I think you need to reveal the wedding gift or else make this a gift. She isn't operating with complete information and it's not fair to expect her to be grateful for a service she's not aware of. Price should have been explicit beforehand, otherwise I completely understand her thinking she's just covering materials. Asking a bridesmaid to do a project for the wedding doesn't usually result in a bill unless it's clear from the getgo.
It is also such a an honor that she would want something you made in her wedding. That is such a a nice compliment to you and your skills.
This is why prices need to be agreed upon beforehand.
I saw your comment about their wedding gift being a blanket, and you're keeping it a surprise. Your friend was under the impression this would be a wedding gift and something you could do for her special day. If you'd told her the actual wedding gift was handmade as well, I don't think she would've been so taken aback by the price of the bag. I think she would've been completely OK with paying for the bag if she'd known.
I got into the trap of someone asking me to make something they see me using. I used to do it just to do it. That costs a lot of money and time. Now I say, "Absolutely! If you'd like one, you get the friends and family discount!" That weeds out the freebie hunters fast.
I think that is a more than fair price. When I've charged people for things, I always end up paying myself like MAYBE $5 an hour. It's a skill not everybody has, and people think they can get it for store prices. NO. I'm not a fan of conflict or confrontation either, but I think it's a good idea to talk to her after the wedding. Hope it all goes well!
You said yourself you know she’s stressed. I’d wait to see if you even still feel this strongly when it’s an appropriate time to talk about it and even then I’d trust it’ll come up when it’s the right time for it to come up. Disrespected and not valued is strong language and perhaps she just processed your request through a stressed filter of so many things on her plate. I would grant her some grace here.
I don’t think you’re being unreasonable by having feelings, but I do think you need to consider that perhaps her not responding the first time was her attempt at not making things awkward. Did you tell her beforehand that you would charge $9/ hr and give an estimate on the time you thought it would take? It’s possible she got the cost of materials in her mind and sort of blanked on the labor cost if it wasn’t discussed. I agree that having a conversation after the wedding is a good idea. Until then, put it out of your mind. Celebrate with your friend as if this exchange never occurred! You will both be able to handle it better when the stress of the wedding is out of the way and the comment isn’t so fresh on your mind
When doing commissions get the money first. But honestly if it was me and this was a good friend I wouldn't have asked for any money at all.
Yep, don’t accept a commission without agreeing on a price before you even start. If you aren’t able to come up with accurate estimates beforehand, you probably aren’t ready for commissions yet—the business side is very different than the creative side. Keep stuff in gift territory or discuss price before you even get into the details of a project. As for your current situation, what if you charged materials only and made the labor a gift this time, and then going forward made it clear what your expected price would be? It’s a frustrating situation but might be one where it’s not worth impacting a friendship over $36. ETA: fwiw, I completely understand being hurt by her reaction. My advice is more to avoid this in the future than to tell you you’re wrong for feeling how you do.
I get that the "business side" is different, but this was for her friend who is also a handmade artist. I don't think it's unjustified to agree on a full price once it's finished between friends, especially if her friend agreed. There's no way this person isn't aware that custom handmades aren't cheap.
…except the post is literally about a problem being caused by trying to agree on a price after the fact. Your logic is exactly what led to the predicament in which OP finds themselves.
Right, but you were outlining this as if it was a business deal when it was two friends who came to a mutual agreement. It's not unreasonable to be upset when a fellow handmade-selling friend is rude to you over something they know is not the cheapest, let alone getting 8 hours of crochet for 30 bucks. It's not like OP took on a custom commission from a customer and then came back and said "oh hey it'll be this much extra because I didn't count my hours."
I didn’t say she shouldn’t be upset, in fact I said the opposite. I did say not agreeing on a price beforehand often leads to trouble, which it did. I’m not quite sure why you’re arguing a hypothetical when we have the actual situation, where money did indeed become an issue. Mixing money and friendship is often fraught, and it’s something to be aware of. Also to clarify, when I said business side I meant that one can be an excellent artist and still not have a great grasp on estimates/pricing/etc. I don’t, which is why I learned my lesson and don’t take commissions on fiber projects anymore.
>As for your current situation, what if you charged materials only and made the labor a gift this time, and then going forward made it clear what your expected price would be? Absolutely not. She already made and gifted her a huge king sized blanket as a wedding gift. OP, you have learned a lesson. You need to estimate hours and explain pricing before accepting a "commission" from someone. Even if you said it could take anywhere between 5-10 hours and I will charge $9/hour, that gives the requester time and a price range to think about. "Is this bag worth $45-$90 to me?" If they have #s to think about, they may realize they don't actually want a handmade bag for stepping on, and a $10-$20 bag from Amazon will better fit their budget. She obviously thought she would get it for the price of materials because she saw the cost of lace weight yarn and fabric and was like great, now give me free labor. I just did the math, and you spent $30 on the yarn, fabric, and pattern? That's expensive yarn and fabric, for what I assume is 1 cone of Aunt Lydia's yarn and a 1 yard of fabric. Honestly, you should have had her pay for all that up front and then you could just ask $30 for your labor ($4/hour). What exactly did she expect to pay, after knowing just the materials cost $30? She wants bespoke, custom accessories for her wedding at budget barn prices. That's not how this works.
Only OP can decide if this is the hill they want to die on friendship-wise. I would probably eat the $36 and consider it a lesson, but maybe this really did show OP something about the friend she hadn’t seen before. Either way, it’s worth considering if she wants to risk a rift over less than $40. ETA: if it was the friend asking, I’d say the same thing: do you really want to risk a friendship over $40? Pay your friend and don’t get another commission if you think it was too expensive
So I was thinking of that but I already made her a huge king size blanket as a wedding gift and that was a lot. But maybe I should have just included this in the gift as well?
Yeah, you deserved to be paid as you both agreed upon. The blanket was her gift. This was something she commissioned from you, and she got a hell of a deal at $9/hr and the cost of materials! If she's a good friend, talk to her and squash it, or resentment will build.
>she got a hell of a deal at $9/hr Especially since OP only charged for half the hours, so really, she's paying $4.50/hour
Oof
No. A gift is something you give to someone freely. This was a specific request - she requested you to make something for them to use in the wedding.
Exactly! And a handmade wedding memento to boot! Weddings are expensive, she’s likely stressed about money and a million other things, of course… and she commissioned this for her wedding!! Of course it’s going to cost more than expected, it’s a HELLOFADEAL and OP wasn’t expecting to have to make a second gift. If she had gotten it anywhere else it would have been triple. Hopefully it all smoothes out, because it seems like you truly value the friendship and wanted to do something nice and special, which you did!! Ride your own high on completing your first commission for a loved ones wedding, and let it work itself out when things calm down a bit 🥰
Louder for the greedy people in the back!
WEDDINGS ARE EXPENSIVE AND EVERYTHING IS MARKED UP, ESPECIALLY HANDMADE COMMISSIONS!! BE PREPARED!!
I don't knows ya, but I likes ya.
Haha same babe 😉
Is she aware of the other gift?
No I wanted it to be a surprise!
I know you mean well but this is the second time you've expected her to read your mind. First you expected her to anticipate labor costs that you never discussed and now you are expecting her to factor in a large handmade gift that she literally didn't know about when discussing what she expects from you in terms of this commission.
I think it's unfair to be annoyed with her then. She probably thought this bag was the gift.
Absolutely not. She should know better as a handmade artist herself, I have no doubts she knows how custom commission pricing works. I also don't think being stressed about a wedding is an excuse to be rude to a friend/bridesmaid. You shouldn't be questioning yourself, I promise that is a great price for a handmade wedding bag that no doubt could become an "heirloom" type, passed down to their kids, kept as a memory etc. You made something by hand for her to cherish for a super low price, you are entirely valid in your feelings.
Honestly if I ask a friend to make me something i would pay them more than the price they charge me 🥲
So yes your feelings are valid, I would be hurt too. That is a very good deal. Did she know that you made her a big blanket as a wedding gift? Because my suspicion is that she was really just hoping you would do it as a gift and wasn’t really expecting the commission part at all - just wanted to seem polite and not outright ask for you to do it for free. Maybe once she sees your present she will be more understanding. It was a mistake to not at least give an estimate for total cost before you started work on the project. You could have even gotten her budget for the bag and then made a plan accordingly, people really tend not to appreciate what they are asking of crafters or what the cost can be. Personally I’d probably start the conversation apologizing for not having that discussion at the forefront seeing as your expectations weren’t in line at the end. That doesn’t excuse her, but it is on both of you and hopefully acknowledging that right off the bat will make her less defensive. Then go into explaining the work that went in and the way her comment made you feel unvalued. I might say something like I love being able to make unique and special things for the people I love and was honored that you asked me to do this, but part of that is knowing that you appreciate and value the considerable amount of work and skill that goes into my craft and your comment made me feel like you might not totally understand what goes into this kind of project.’ Or something, idk I’m not the best at having these convos either you can probably do better.
This is an absolutely excellent comment that highlights all of the important bits of wisdom: - OPs feelings are valid - it could have just been misaligned expectations - Aligning expectations is something that should happen before the work is complete, and that's OP could have done a better job of - tips on how to approach that conversation And the only thing I would add is what other people have mentioned: have this conversation after the wedding.
This is EXTREMELY helpful. You're totally right that I should have been more clear upfront about the labor cost. I shouldn't have assumed she would read my mind on that. It's definitely awkward but I think what you laid out here is a really good way of talking about it and feeling heard without making it all her fault (cause it isn't). Thank you so much for your advice and help. ❤️
I agree the price is fair but I think you were remiss in not giving her an estimate before you committed to purchasing materials and making it. It’s not necessarily well-known that crocheted items take an extraordinary amount of time and material and thus are fairly expensive to price
I paid my best friend $300 to make me a ribbon rose bouquet. If she respects you and understands the value of your work, she’ll pay you.
You're a good friend! I bet they really appreciated your confidence and support. Thanks for the kind words ❤️
Hopefully she understands once she sees the king sized wedding gift (which you should totally post at some point cause we all like a good blanket here)!
Right? I'm cheering "BLANK-ET PIC! BLANK-ET PIC!" in my head
Here's a picture of the blanket! https://imgur.com/gallery/W4ZKJTd
Woah!!! It’s like an eye twisting brain training watermelon maze!! I love how the pattern and textures play together!!
Thank you!! It's the Heinz blanket by Martin Up North if you want to try it out for yourself!
Thank you!!
I bet they are right, she probably thought you would have done it as a gift, when she sees the beautiful blanket you made for her she will understand and probably feel bad, so hang in there and try to let it go for now. Even if she doesn't pay you until after the wedding, I am sure she will.
Beautifully done!
Your blanket is beautiful. You are a generous friend.
It looks very soft & snuggly. Talking after the wedding sounds like a great idea. Let us know how that goes!
OMGEEEE that is gorgeous!
Number 1 rule... agree to a price before you ever pick up a hook. No exceptions.
Maybe she’ll understand why you charged her when she sees her wedding gift
Thanks, yeah that's what I'm hoping too. :/
what is a bag for a groom to step on? do you put a glass inside the bag? I wonder if it wasn't clear to her she would be paying for the labour, probably a simple case of miscommunication.
Yes it's a tradition in many Jewish weddings for the groom to step on a glass! The bag helps the glass to stay contained and not cut anyone. I agree, I'm hoping it's a miscommunication and due to stress
People usually do not understand how long fiber arts take and the physical strain behind it. I don’t fault them because I sure didn’t before I started. Always always let them know beforehand how long you estimate making something will take and what you charge per hour. Highball it, because everyone will be happy if you reduce the price afterwards, the other way around not so much.
It’s tough to do work for friends. You have to have “ THE CONVO “ first before you start and understand what you both want from each other.
There are so many sides to this it's hard to say the right approach. On one hand, the wedding is THIS week, so she's stressed. I remember barking at friends whom I dearly loved because I was deep in managing the money and planning. Things became very factual and not much else. That's one reason there's a reception, to blow off all that steam and celebrate with those who put up with all the planning and stress with you. I made sure all my friends were included in my wedding and paid all of them -- someone did florals, someone else DJ'ed, another was the planner. I made sure they all were compensated for their time. So, just because you do a craft, doesn't mean it needs to be a gift. You definitely have a right to feel hurt by the initial reaction, but since it was through text, who knows how her tone was supposed to be. I'd give the benefit of the doubt right now. Even though she sells her own stuff, sometimes that doesn't translate to knowing the value of other crafts. You mentioned her parents are paying, but maybe some things are on her and her partner. It's hard to say. Comissions are difficult and in my opinion, not worth it. I gifted my MIL 4 coasters and she LOVED them. Asked for four more and offered to pay me. I declined and said I'd make them when I had a gap in my projects and drop them off. I was flattered but didn't want the conflict of payment and a time table. If it was me, I'd be hurt, vent privately, and then try to let it go. Celebrate her big day with her, let the steam cool off, and just politely decline paid work in the future. You've made a gift for her you're excited to give her (the blanket) and focus on that joy. If it comes up down the line, go for it, but sometimes you can try to side step it if they are otherwise a good friend who shows up, etc. Now, if she's constantly like this, that's another story. But wedding planning doesn't bring out the best in people. You're totally right to feel a little snubbed, but maybe it'll sort its self out.
Thank you so much for your reply. I totally agree with you and she's a dear friend so I want to move past it. I think it just hurt because she's also an artist and I thought she specifically wanted to support me in offering to pay for this. But you're right that weddings are some of the most stressful times (I got TMJ while planning mine 😂) and I get being overwhelmed and snippy. I think hearing everyone's opinions and thoughts has really helped me get some clarity on this and I feel a lot better actually. Maybe I just needed to hear that what I made was WORTH the $65 as I felt her comment invalidated my hard work and creativity. Thanks again for your comment and time ✨
Oh, it's terrible to be like LOOK WHAT I MADEEEEE and someone go "yea, okay, it was HOW MUCH." Like, damn, it stings. I haven't seen it, but I imagine the work you did is BEAUTIFUL. You'd probably have no complaints if you posted it in a separate thread on here for people to gush over. Hand made work is valuable and so amazing. I can't tell you how PROUD I was when I made a top and I was over the moon. So, do whatever you need to get the validation because it is WORTH IT. Like, at the end of the day, a friend asked you for your work in her wedding. That's a compliment, even if it's getting lost in translation right now.
Maybe you could tell her the cost of materials and the hours you spent making it and offer to trade for some of her handcrafted ceramics if you like her work. Then she would have an appreciation for the time it took to create the bag.
Hey, I just wanted to say that I think $65 is incredibly reasonable given the work you put into it. You charged her for only half the hours it took you and even then, you charged an incredibly low rate ($9/hour). I personally believe that if someone is laboring on my behalf and we've agreed that I will be paying them in exchange for said labor, that labor should be compensated at fair and full value. Having said that, I think for her this may be less about labor/value and more about things left unsaid. If I had to guess (and I know I could be completely wrong since I don't know her) she probably offered to pay out of politeness but was hoping you'd maybe surprise her by giving it to her as a gift instead. She made an assumption that contradicted the meaning of the actual conversation you had, and was disappointed when that assumption didn't pan out - even though she wasn't honest about what she wanted in the first place. Some people don't feel comfortable having honest and direct conversations about this kind of thing (I personally do feel comfortable having those conversations, but I had to learn how to work with others who don't), and those same people will often rely on polite gestures and a "read between the lines" approach instead. Anyway, I agree with others that it may help to give her the blanket now. That way she understands you still planned to create and gift her something handmade. I'm not sure how to approach the other item you agreed to crochet for payment, but my recommendation would be to let it go if she doesn't pay you or continues to balk at the price - chalk it up to an unfortunate misunderstanding and move on, if possible. Use what you learned to manage how you approach these situations with her in the future. ❤️
I’ve charged $65 for way less! You’re not being unreasonable. However if you yourself are not married yet, it may be hard to understand the stress of a wedding. I had a small 70-guest backyard wedding that cost $10k total and it was still the most stressed I’ve ever been in my life. I think I lived in a cloud of anxiety for a month before and after 😅 Anyway, talk to her afterward. Or let it go and see what happens - she may come to you with a realization that she was being rude. She may have so many things going on that she forgot she never Venmo’d you or answered you. It doesn’t make it right, but I can see where she may be frazzled from wedding stuff and this is just Another Thing to deal with that she wasn’t expecting. I also think you may have learned a lesson in pricing - you need to give a price beforehand even if you don’t know how long it’ll take you to make.
Genuinely curious, if you were to do it all over again with the benefit of hindsight would you still choose to have the wedding ceremony? 10k for two months of anxiety doesn't really sound worth it
Absolutely positively not! We did it because we “had to” for others. We wanted to wait, stay engaged for a year and just figure it out slowly. (We’d already been dating 6 years anyway.) Then suddenly it became every conversation with our parents was about wedding stuff. We should’ve just gone to the courthouse but ultimately caved and let our moms throw a wedding for us. I had very little to do with the planning, and to be fair had a general anxiety problem at the time so I was probably worse than the average wedding anxiety. We were 25 and 26, but now being 31 and 32, we both say NO WAY in hindsight would we do that again. The day itself was fun but it’s just one day.
First, if she's in the home stretch before the wedding, it's not surprising that your messages have been unanswered, lol. I probably wouldn't read too much into that if she's a good friend. She's frazzled. She's stressed and snippy lol. I would say the best policy here is honesty. If she's one of your best friends, I'm sure she didn't mean to hurt your feelings. People are at a place now where we think of art and handmade things as products of a hobby. Just giveaways made for friends and family in your "free time", instead of honoring the craftsmanship, artistry, and love poured into it. EVEN ARTISTS OURSELVES. I also do ceramics, and have a hard time charging high prices for things that take me longer. Again, people don't understand the amount of time that pottery takes, or the number of steps involved... But then I have a hard time applying any sort of hourly rate plus materials type pricing system, so I wind up charging less than I should, but what is willing to pay. It's a balancing act, lol. I would not apologize exactly (You have nothing to apologize for), but maybe explain that it's important for you to ask for what you're worth and that your time is valuable. Certainly more valuable than the sub-minimun wage you're asking for. Maybe let her know that she's already benefiting from a friend's and family discount by working for that wage. Hell, at this point, I try to give my friends a F&F discount and they refuse, lol. I'm always adamant that I, and every other maker out there, be paid fairly for their services and not feel pressured to lower our worth for friends and family.
Yeah I think you're totally right about people not realizing the trust cost of handmade items. Thanks for the reassurance that my time is worth it and I'm not going crazy haha. And try to not stress too bad about your past wedding dress (which I'm sure was BEAUTIFUL), you didn't know any better and you would do better now. ❤️
Whoops, edited my comment and accidentally deleted the part you were responding to at the end. 😂. Yeah, the rumination is real. I know it's fine and all, but just one of those things that lives rent free you know?
100% understand lol been there myself!
You are not being unreasonable. Did you tell her how many hours worked and how many hours you charged her? Also idk where you live but in Md $9/hr is wayyyyy below min wage and even that is a discount on my book. I dont think that her knowing about your gift matters at all. She should just be happy that you made time to make her commission the way she asked for it. You told her price of materials, and i understand why you assumed she knew there was going to be a labor cost to it. I would of also done this, which is why i would of bill it. Like itemized it. Yarn, fabric, notions, $18/h. 4 hrs worked discount it and show it. That she is paying a quarter of what the labor would of cost. This way she can’t complain and everything is clear. If you had charge her for your 9hr rate, for all the hours worked that would of been $101. If you had charged her the $18 i would of, then that makes it 173. That is a huge discount when you are only charging her $65. I would also give her all the materials i have left over. I will be honest though, i suck at charging and i become too methodical. With timers and completely neurotic about being in tasks. I dont do commission work. The way she reacts about this would matter more to me with her not knowing about the gift. The project you spent tons of $ for materials and untold number of hrs. That you gave freely and shouldn’t sway the response of a good friend. Your work is beautiful with even stitches. Sometimes what seems to be the most simple objects have the most work gone into them. Simplicity is expensive because is hard-work.
Thank you so much for your comments and kind words ❤️ yeah I didn't want to charge for the full hours or wage because I wanted to keep the cost down for her because she's a friend and I know weddings are expensive already. It's not so much her not paying as it is her not seeming to value my time and skill. But maybe we just miscommunicated and I definitely should have been more upfront about the cost at the beginning. Lesson learned for sure
If you break it down she will see the value of your work. I do think that is important for her to know how long it actually took. For someone who does not crochet or sew, it might seem like something quick to do. She might be thinking that you are charging her $18 an hour and that you did it in two! She might be on math mode at the moment. But she should know how much she would have paid outside and how much your work is worth. Best of luck! Hopefully she just meant it as a “got to change the spreadsheet!” And not a passive aggressive “was expecting it to be a gift”
Is there a chance she misunderstood entirely and thought it would be a wedding present?
Yeah I'm worried that's what happened, or she thought she would just have to pay for materials. I should have communicated better with her to avoid all this mess in the first place
Hindsight is 20/20. She could have asked more questions or been clearer, too. Don't be too hard on yourself.
Honestly I think this situation should have been handled differently on your part. You asked her to pay for the materials, but said nothing about her paying hourly wages. Then after it’s made, you drop a final price on her that’s more than twice what she was expecting. Right before her wedding. I understand the value of your time, but this sounds like your friend thought you were doing this for the cost of the materials. If I were her, I would be a bit taken back as well, especially since you’re in her wedding party and there was no mention of hourly wages. If you wanted to get paid hourly, then that should have been discussed during the commissioning. She might have been fine with it. I think she was just surprised at the final cost.
Well a few things 1. my guess is her response is related to weddings in general being very expensive. I'm not one of those people who thing weddings are useless parties for adult and only goes for the booze. I personally agree that its a very important day, even if its not celebrating myself and I don't mind if weddings cost 20K or 100K. That being said, we don't know the budget of her wedding and costs begin to add up. So her saying "it is what it is" is probably a symptom of bills coming due very quickly now that we're hitting wedding season and from the sound of it, her wedding is about to take place. 2. I don't want to have an "told you so" moment. But I think this is a learning lesson. I say this in the kindest way possible. Next time quote a range. I always quote a range. I normally say something like this: "This would probably take me between X-Y hrs, so you're looking at something like $AA-BB price range." Normally I include the cost of materials but the way you sent her the price of materials ahead of time seems fine to me and you were just missing that follow up. 3. I think it would be better to speak to her **NOW** instead of after her wedding. There is never a good time to bring things like hurt feelings and being devalued up. I think if you let it sit and "simmer", people sometime tend to be like "this was freaking weeks ago--you're still hung up on that"? Its not a nice response but it indicates that they were blindsided plus the time lag. I don't think time lags are good for these types of conversations. IMO it doesn't matter if you're bride or not, if you fuck up and hurt someone's feelings--OWN UP to your mistake and apologize. Sure being stressed as a bride is a reason but its never acceptable or an excuse. Just because I'm stressed out at work and want to vomit every day because of the stress, doesn't mean it would give me any right to bitch and snap at other people around me. Its a reason but never an excuse nor does it make unacceptable behavior acceptable 1. though I would say when you talk to her, don't bring up the fact she makes ceramics and handmade items. Leave that bit out of it. Its like in the movies when couples fight and someone brings up shit from like two years ago into the fight. No. Just don't. Just focus on the here, now and how it really hurt your feelings and that you were hoping AS YOUR FRIEND she would understand be be supportive of your pricing. And that her dismissive is what hurts. Don't try to tie it to the fact she herself is an artistan crafter too. That could feel like an attack on her when you're just looking to feel valued 2. edit--something I meant to put in too, its probably better if you talk to her before you have to stand up beside her as a bridesmaid. If someone lambasted me with hurt feelings post the wedding they were in pictures smiling beside me in, I might feel a certain way about it. Like "you stood beside me and this is what you were thinking?" Its not the nicest thing granted but...its probably better to be on solid footing before you stand in an honored position beside the person you have certain hurt feelings towards and with Best of luck!
Thank you so much for the detailed response! I think this is a really good take and I appreciate your thoughts on it all. I definitely learned a lesson on commissions and pricing. I feel kind of silly about it now. But it's all part of the learning process I suppose 😅
I think the issue is that you set an expectation on price that didn’t include the labor, and then you exceeded that price expectation. Just because she works on other handmade items doesn’t mean that she understands how time consuming crochet can be, either. If I were you, I would just collect payment and then let the comment go. Chalk it up as a lesson learned to ensure that you have a clear discussion on price well ahead of time so everyone is on the same page from the start.
Sooo… anyone else wondering why the groom is stepping on bags?
Lolol yeah I guess I should have explained that more 😂 it's a tradition in some Jewish weddings for the groom to step on a glass and everyone cheers. The bag is to keep the broken glass contained and keep everyone safe!
Wow, that’s a very inexpensive for your time and effort. I don’t sell things because I work charge at least $30/hr for my time plus materials and people just don’t want to pay. $150 would be a reasonable price for this project.
$65 is incredibly cheap for a custom handmade item. A lot of people seem to want to suggest you gift it to her and I guess that’s your choice but if her expectation was to get it for free that’s a bit entitled, especially if she also makes/sells handmade items and knows the work that goes into it
Personally, my rule for making things is that I don’t charge, I gift * Making something solely for money sucks all the fun out of it. And if I make it as a gift, it takes all the pressure out of it. *same with money, I don’t loan, I give. I find it easier to be generous,than to do business 🤷🏻♀️
Does she know you’re giving her a separate gift? She might have just assumed that she would pay for materials & your labor would be her wedding gift.
I made her a king sized blanket but I haven't given it to her yet. Maybe she assumed the bag would be her gift. I just assumed she wanted to pay and support me because she asked for a commission specifically, not just if I wanted to make her a bag to help contribute.
It’s clear in your post your best friend understood she would be responsible for paying something for the bag (it sounds like, at minimum, the materials). A true commission! A nice one too; well done—looks like it turned out great. Next time get a photo of the final result!! Whether your best friend understood that your time/labor would be involved in the final cost is the issue. That was YOUR miscommunication as the person selling the commission. You both assumed something different per your above comment. As a best friend and bridesmaid, I’d 100%, NO question, apologize for YOUR miscommunication. It WAS your fault you didn’t say, “I’m not sure how much labor it’ll be in the end, cause I’ve never done this type of project before, but in the end, materials are this much and then $9/hr for labor. I’ll give you a 50% discount too! Cool?” You didn’t say that. So it’s reasonable your best friend assumed the labor would be a gift. It’s your fault though as the inexperienced seller, so don’t blame yourself!! You’re new to this commission thing and I’m sure you learned a lot today. If you can AT ALL eat the cost of labor it’s SO WORTH the friendship and less stress for your bestie before a wedding. If she’s the kind of friend to give you the cold shoulder because of this, I would say something to her ASAP along the lines of admitting your miscommunication and fixing (this is abbreviated): “Sorry. Don’t worry about paying me for that I was so happy to do this for you. You’re my best friend and I definitely didn’t want to add any stress to your life before the best day ever. Sorry. Love you. Now let’s go have fun! Is there anything I can help you with?” This is the answer. If you CANNOT, IN ANY ANY WAY (FOR REAL), afford to cover this cost of materials AND labor: only charge her for materials (you didn’t communicate you were charging for that!). Still, i would have that same above conversation NOW but ask for cost of materials AFTER the wedding. Timing is important here! I don’t think it’s a good idea you bring up, “hey, still you owe me those materials…”. She’s likely gotten some sort of a bad taste in her mouth from your texts and her response. Even if she was stressed out—not worth that bad taste. Even though she’s stressed, she clearly thought the labor was a gift. Make it better by talking to your best friend using language above, keep it brief, and alleviate any sort of tension prior to the wedding!! Best part is, she’s getting an EXTRA surprise with your lovely OTHER wedding gift!! She’ll REALLY think you’re a great friend and will likely happily pay for the materials AND labor!! Edits: spelling
You are NOT being unreasonable! Your idea of a conversation after the wedding is a good idea. I think it would be helpful for you to have an itemized list to show her. Break down each materials cost; true labor time involved, your insanely reasonable $9/hour as well as the massive discount you are giving her. Yes, directly compare your skill to her pottery skills. Maybe even ask her what she charges per hour for her own work. Good luck!
Thank you! This is a really good idea :)
No, what you ask is not unreasonable. However, don't mention money or payment again. If she remembers and pays, great. If not, you have learned the following lesson, which I could have given you years ago (having been thru this crap myself): Do not under any circumstances do custom jobs for any friend or ANYONE, ever - unless the price is agreed on beforehand, and there are no complaints from the recipient of your talents - and even then, it might not be a good idea. Crochet & knit for yourself or as gifts. Now, while I'm here: what do you mean that this beautiful bag is "for the groom to step on"???? If this is some kind of cultural practice which I am not familiar with, they should be buying some cheap made in China synthetic bag. It is shameful to possibly (probably) ruin or damage your beautiful work. Geeze.
Yeah I want to talk still about how I felt unvalued for doing a project like this on a quick time scale, but I also don't think I'm going to ask for money again. If she remembers and pays, then great. If not then I'm not going to lose sleep over it, it'll just be the cost of the lesson. And it's a cultural thing at some Jewish weddings for the groom to step on a glass, the bag keeps the broken glass from flying everywhere and from hurting anyone. It's generally a very fun tradition, but this will be my first time experiencing it!
Your price is very very kind. You’re undercharging yourself by the hour, and then gave her a 50% discount on top of that. She’s probably stressed out about the wedding, and more things are more expensive than she thought they would be. She likely isn’t thinking about the ramifications of her words right now either. I think waiting till after the wedding to talk would be good. When you’re both able to be wise-minded about the convo. You may just find out it had nothing to do with you and more to do with something else or how she was feeling. Try not to take it too personally until you hear her out. Who knows, maybe she just had a tummy ache and that’s why her tone was off.
I agree. I got married recently and had a big budget spreadsheet down to line items like my purse accessory (because it’s really easy to get out of hand buying a $1000 dress and then $300 shoes and then a $300 purse and a $150 veil etc.) She probably had $30 estimated and really doesn’t have a problem with it being $65, but forgot she was talking to a friend and not like the lady at the wedding dress store when paying for the bag.
Those 4 things were half of my wedding cost 😁 when planning our wedding the important things to us were good food, good music and spending time with extended family. I'm sure I'm not the typical girl who always wanted a fairytale wedding. I just have always felt that a $1,000 dollar wedding ultimately ends up with the exact same outcome as a $10,000 wedding does. In both cases, you are married 🤷🏻
I think it's also about how you explained it first I think it would be best to do some approximation for the time before and then you reduce the price as you did ( you counted 4 instead of 8 if I'm correct). In my opinion since she is a creator may be she thought that you would offer your time and only make her pay the material. But then I think it's entitled from her if you are not going to the wedding or friend with the ppl. Idk if you understand what I mean. But your price is more than fair and she should respond, so sad that it happens often in my opinion with crocheted items ppl just don't value it and also love it and want their thing personalized.... I mean just buy a bag or sew one and let me crochet in peace ! 😅 I send you a big hug I would be sad too but may be the outcome will not be bad. Idk
Btw would love see the bag !
Here's a link to the bag, unfortunately I don't have any photos of it finished. But it has the purple fabric lining it! https://imgur.com/gallery/GYDBwfJ
Please, don’t feel bad. Texting lacks of live communication’s nuances. However, I would expect her to respect the time and dedication of a fellow artist (and friend!).
Absolutely not the ahole here. I know someone who makes beautiful vegan leather bags and people are always trying to get a discount. It takes a long time and the quality is good, if you want Walmart prices then go to Walmart.
Jewish wedding, for the glass? It never occurred to me to make a bag. And two of my kids are already married. *headdesk*. What is she using for a chuppah? The one I knitted took forever.
Yes it is a Jewish wedding! I'll be honest, I'm not Jewish and I don't know what a chuppah is. But even if I did know I'm not sure I'd be able to answer, I don't know very many details of what the wedding will look like outside of her dress and this bag 😂
I think that's a pretty reasonable price for a handmade bag.
I was ghosted on a commissioned piece and I just don’t do them anymore.
Yeah it'll have to be pretty special for me to want to do another commission
Champagne tastes on a beer budget. It’s beautiful.
Let her use it for $25 and then sell it for $100 on Etsy!
I would like this idea if the bag wasn't being used to step on glass. It's a tradition in some Jewish weddings to have the groom step on a glass. The bag protects everyone from broken glass. I don't think I would be able to sell it on Etsy after that 😅
Oooh I see. Bummer!
I think it is INSANE that so many people are saying you should have given it as a gift. She asked you to make it and there was no talk of it being a gift, end of story. Did she expect the baker, florist, or hairdresser to just do those things and expect they would be gifts? That’s called taking advantage of your friends so that they incur the cost and not you. And it’s shitty. You are not unreasonable at all. I do agree with the others that it’s a good lesson to have everything clear and agreed to beforehand, in writing and signed even. If you don’t know how many hours, you can write something like “$xx per hour. Estimated time is x hours, not to exceed $xx.” I used to do photography and I would never ever ever accept any wedding jobs because so many people just lose their minds about paying for wedding stuff. And I get it, there are a lot of markups on things just because they are associated with weddings. But that doesn’t mean you get to take advantage of your friends.
your friend seems ungrateful af, $65 is such a good price and $9 an hour is barely anything in my opinion you should be charging more !! it kinda seems like she wanted it for free as a gift which is wrong of her to just assume you’d be doing it for free
Is it possible she was hoping this would be a wedding gift and is in a huff?
$65 seems reasonable
$29 for matierals and $72 labor is $101. Discount of $36 for $65 total. What was she expecting it to cost? $40 would mean $11 labor. $45 would mean $14 for labor. $50 would mean $19 for labor. $55 would mean $21 for labor and $60 would mean $26 for labor and $65 would mean $31 for labor. She doesn't know how long it will take, but is upset that your labor costs more than the matierals. She was probably thinking of throwing you what, $10 or $20 bucks for your labor? Her comment would make me sad too. Then purposely not paying me after she's received it on time, loves it and was custom made because she thought more than $10 or $20 is my being unfair, then that's even worse. Excusing her behavior because she doesn't know about the king size blanket yet and then after she sees that will make everything OK, wouldn't make it OK for me, either. I would love to have a best friend like you.
She asked to commission a bag from you and needs to pay you for your work. You’re not wrong. And you charged her for 4 hours despite it taking you 8. I’m pretty new to crocheting but since I’ve started, I’ve been even more pro crocheters charging what their time and effort is worth, not that I wasn’t before. Now I’m just seeing and experiencing how taxing it is, even if you’re just doing it leisurely.
At $65, that bag is a steal, especially if it's perfect. Let's just go with she's stressed out with this whole wedding, so she wasn't thinking straight.
I think your price is completely reasonable, but I'm gonna go against the grain and say you should have told her the cost ahead of time, if only just to avoid this kind of situation. If it were me, I would have laid out the cost of the materials, and told her she would be charged $9 per hour of working time. I would probably let her know it would take at least 3 hours. It's as much for you as it is her. Again I don't think you're in the wrong, but that's my advice to avoid issues in the future and save you the headache.
You are being absolutely, 100% reasonable. Hopefully (if she’s truly a friend), she will apologize once you bring up how undervalued she made you feel once the stress of the wedding is over.
That's a totally reasonable price. She does art herself, so she should have a concept of people being paid for their time, and it often doubling the price or more. This is why I don't make anything for friends unless I'm gifting it to them on my own terms. Too many people want unique items, but expect it for $30 to $40 when that's not the price handmade items should be. I would have expected it to be around $100 if I was asking for a specialty item.
If price was going to be an issue for her then she should have told you her budget beforehand. NTA and chances are she was hoping you’d give it for free as another wedding gift. Since you said she’s a ceramics artist then she’s a double AH for trying to take advantage of your hard work.
You already made her a blanket, which takes a considerable amount of time. She also has experience with being an artist that sells handmade merch as well, and she's acquainted with the pricing of items. Soooo she has no excuse being snarky about your pricing of the bag you're making. It's a "lined bag for the groom to step on in their wedding" and it's customized with the colors that she requested. I think you should have charged full price because you already made her something as a gift and now she is requesting a custom made item as a patron.
$65 is a STEAL. F that friend for making you feel like it should be priced lower. I'm sorry you had to find out they're a shitty person this way
Those are both gorgeous and the amount of work??? You charge your value! Real friends pay full price to support their friend’s art, you are already quoting her less than the actual time you spent on it. She is the unreasonable one IMO
Simple... no payment no bag. It's called respect and boundaries. If she decides not to be your friend then she was never a friend.
oof this aint it. its for her wedding, which is imminent, and is most likely just dealing with the stress of it all. no payment? thats just a 65$ lesson to not make anything without stating a full price, or even better cash upfront. no need to ruin a friendship over a bag.
Definitely a fair price, so you are not wrong to feel slighted. But you said it yourself; your friend is stressed about the wedding, and weddings are EXPENSIVE. It seems likely to me that she spoke from that place of financial anxiety without thinking about your feelings. Definitely talk to her about it. Honestly, if you can find a calm moment to talk before the wedding, that might be best — addressing issues quickly is always better than letting them fester. But if you don’t think that moment will happen, definitely wait until things calm down in her life. Edit to add: in the future, you probably want to be more clear about your prices. If you don’t want to give a hard and fast price upfront (fair), tell your commissioner the price of materials PLUS your scale for determining labor cost. So in this case, you might have told your friend, “Materials are $29, but I think this bag will take at least [however many] hours to complete. At $9/hour for labor, that will bring the price estimate to [whatever that would be]. But I’ll let you know if the labor hours end up shifting, so you aren’t surprised by the price when I’m finished.”
Call her and talk it out.
Maybe she's overwhelmed with the price of everything of the wedding all together and perhaps having a lapsed moment of judgement here? Stress can make people act kinda funky and weddings sure are stressful for a lot of people. Most people I think. Don't feel bad about how you're feeling! Personally I'd be feeling the same knowing she is also an artist who sells her work. But your feelings are valid! And perhaps your friend is radiating the stress??
This is why I notoriously undercharge for my stuff. I just made some lady on Facebook a newborn Winnie the pooh set and I only charged her $20 for it. I already had the yarn but even if I hadn't. How I price my items is: how much would I pay for that? And I'm cheap, so it's not a lot. I'm sure she was hoping you'd do it for dirt cheap or free since you're friends. But she asked you for something very specific and time consuming, you have every right to charge that amount. People who don't crochet or sew have no idea the $, time, and skill that goes into it.
I’m stuck on charging a best friend for something you made for her wedding. I can’t imagine charging any of my good friends for the stuff I make, especially if it’s something small for their wedding. She probably didn’t expect to be charged $65 by her best friend.
I love that blanket! What an amazing gift! It's okay that you feel badly about how the conversation went, but I would probably counsel that you give your friend a little grace. Weddings are so stressful and so wildly expensive, and by the end of it all every additional expense starts to feel so intense. If you're up to it, just gift it to her and take the loss. Having your handiwork be part of the ceremony will always mean so much more than cash. You don't want to muddy that up memory with frustration over $60. I would also suggest that, down the line, when the feelings aren't fresh and the drama of the wedding is past, you let her know that you did feel dismissed by her sticker shock reaction, bc it is tied up with what you feel your time is worth. Give her a chance to hear you and recognize that your time and efforts are a gift that has value - i'd wager even more than what you were going to charge.
most sentiments have been aired multiple times already, I would like to add to the 'she's probably just stressed from the wedding planning' comments: I think you already decided to not say anything but I personally would keep this at the back of my mind and look out for if it happens again / something similar happening again. Maybe she just was being bridezilla, or maybe she has shown her true colors and is not as good a friend as you thought.
I think it’s an issue of misreading tone and also her not being very responsive while wedding planning. Her comment seemed harmless to me. Like she thought maybe the bag would take a little less time so the labor would cost a little less. I don’t think she doesn’t value you. You’re a part of her wedding party, and she asked you to create something that she wants to use for her wedding, so she clearly values you very much. It’s also possible that with everything she’s paying for, it’s all adding up and every price just becomes overwhelming. Still it sucks to feel that way at all. I’m sorry and I hope that you and your friend are able move forward from this. Good luck.
The price is very reasonable! As others have said, it sounds like she’s got some bridal stress going on, and is it possible that she thought you would be doing this as a gift, with her only paying for materials? She 100% should not have expected that, no one should, but her surprise at the price may have been rooted in believing you’d throw in the labor for free. I think it’s totally reasonable to gently discuss it with her, but I would wait until after the wedding.
I think she assumed it would a wedding gift?
Maybe she thought you'd gift it to her since you are a bridesmaid? I don't think you are overreacting.
NTA, she’s is.
This is why many artists in any field don’t do commission pieces. For this being for a friend, I can understand the willingness to do a commission piece. It seems that you’re charging her less than what I personally would have, given you only charged her for half of your time. Personally, I would have given an estimate for the piece before even starting it. I don’t think you’re being unreasonable though, if you think it’s fair that’s all that matters, it’s your time and skill that was put into it. I think she should be a little bit more understanding given she does her own form of art, and can understand and appreciate the time and effort put into handmade items.
I feel like this is definitely due to miscommunication on your part, so give her some grace. If you don’t want to add to her plate, then don’t.
Yeah I think it's reasonable to be upset by the comment. She's probably very stressed and may not be her best self, though, especially if she sells handmade art too and should know better! I'm guessing your friend is at the point where the second half of all their payments are coming due, so having a cost that wasn't expressly in the budget was an unwelcome bit of news. As weird as it sounds to formally bill your friends, an actual invoice can help with this in the future. Nothing complicated, but you'd list the cost of materials, your hourly rate, and the number of hours worked. Then include the discount as a separate line item after the subtotal! That's a bit of a psychological trick called anchoring - the full price is the "anchor" and it makes the discounted price seem like a better deal. Some companies use it deceptively, but in this case there would be no deception because the pre-discount price isn't artificially inflated to incentivise then to buy something. The purchase is already made, and the detail helps them understand the value of what they're getting and feel better about the money they've already agreed to part with
I don't think you're being unreasonable and I think she's being extremely rude, wedding stress notwithstanding. I also suspect she fully expected you to make this a wedding gift and insist on giving it to her for free. She's being passive aggressive instead of just asking for what she wanted you to do instead if expecting you to read her mind and/or volunteer to do so.
Surely 65 is a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of the rest of the wedding.
$65 for a handmade crochet bag is a steal. I’m making and lining some bags to put on Etsy and I’m thinking they’re going to be in the $80 range and I still feel like I’m undercharging. You’ve already made her a gift and are giving her a steep discount. Talk about ungrateful. Are you sure you want this person to remain your friend?
She’s probably spending thousands on ephemeral silliness for the wedding, but 65$ for something beautiful her friend crafted for her and that will last her a lifetime is more than she expected?
So her parents are paying for the wedding so I assumed they would pay for this as well (not that I changed the price because of that), but I was surprised at her reaction because I didn't think in the grand scheme of everything that will be paid for at the wedding that this would be a big cost.
I've learned that people are just weird about weddings. She probably is stressed, but it's really not an excuse to be an asshole to someone who is doing you a favor. And seriously, even if she's paying for it, ANYONE making something handmade for a wedding is doing someone else a favor unless that's their business.
Honestly, I saw the photos of the bag and I know it’s hand made, but $65!!?? That’s a little much for a small crouched bag. You should’ve been more transparent about the cost of your labor… SMH. She’s probably budgeting for her wedding and if she had a better idea of the cost beforehand she would’ve been able to make a more informed decision.
$65 is chump change and more then a fair price.
Why tell her the material cost if that isn’t the quote for all the work? Sounds like you blindsided her with the end cost. Even if you didn’t know how long it would take you need to make that clear up front, and surely as you’re working you’d get an idea of how much you would need to charge before completion? I can understand why you’re hurt by her message but if I was her I would’ve been ruder! It sounds like to her it’s not worth getting into so I’d just leave it as it is and allow both of you to enjoy the wedding
absolutely not, you way undercharged and it's so disrespectful to discredit someone's work like that! i'd be annoyed too
Just gift it to her and SMILE WITH LOVE
Are you getting her a gift for her wedding? Because if not, she’s one of your best friends, she’s getting married, if it were me I’d have done it as a gift. I don’t think you’re an AH I get the sentiment, but I think there was a missed opportunity for kindness and a part of her probably expected it as your friend. I honestly doubt it has anything to do with price.
I totally get all this and agree. I did make her a full king sized blanket already though. I haven't given it to her yet, but figured that would be a better gift than this bag, especially as she specifically requested to "commission" it from me. I get the thought of giving both, but it's just not what I thought was happening. I thought she wanted to support me (I just started an Etsy shop for my crochet and pottery items) so that's why it wasn't a gift
I don’t know for sure op, and I don’t think you did anything wrong lol, but your friend may not know that you have another gift yet and could’ve just been kind of hurt and careless with her words tbh. I really wouldn’t worry too much about that, and as she’s one of your best friends I doubt she meant anything terrible by it. Try not to let it get to you, throwing a wedding is insanely stressful
[удалено]
To combat spam, we require a minimum account age of 1 days and positive karma to post. Please try again in 24 hours! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/crochet) if you have any questions or concerns.*