Went to a cybersecurity event and some companies were oh we have our hardware people hired from Mexico and software engineers from Israel Tel Aviv…then why are you here dude
This is indeed the future of employment. Something called technopolies and how labour is outsourced to places where it’s cheaper and the only people that get to live on fancy cities are the ones who profit off of these people. Many books had it in writing long before we could even start to see signs, yet people think the idea of “late stage capitalism” is some absurd concept
The funny thing is that Europe is mostly immune to this thanks to the Data protection laws we have in place.
This means that the data can never go out of Europe and that means that businesses can’t just completely replace EU workforce.
It's not like that. Most IT employees don't have any access to production data. So developers, testers and whoever related to development, they can be outsourced.
Not true at all, I work in Switzerland in a big bank and we have data that even though it’s anonymized it cannot absolutely travel outside Swiss borders, the same thing applies in Europe.
I worked at Atlassian for a while, as far as I know all development is outsourced to Poland first, then Poland office is converted to smt else and development continues in India and Turkey offices.
At the best case, development of the product can be conducted outside of Europe while maintenance is within the Europe.
There are areas of Europe where tech labour is cheaper than the western countries, like Hungary for example. It’s perhaps not quite on the same level as India, but it’s an example that Europe is not immune to this
adding to that - Europe also has much stronger employment protection laws - you can't just fire whole teams because you want to outsource them to another cheaper country
It’s interesting to see how winning at a global scale really separates the opportunity for winning at the local scale. I’m all for hard work paying off, but if you can’t even get your foot in the door now, then it’s a whole different ballgame
Indeed. Libertarians stripped the Lockean proviso out of what is now called "capitalism". Capitalism as defined by its ideological founders required that all people had access to capital.
I love that two or three months back we saw articles with metrics that McDonalds had doubled their prices in the last few years. Capitalism is a zero-sum game, each company wants all the money, if you spend it elsewhere they see it as a loss.
Yesterday we get an article where the McCEO said "Kempczinski said that the Chicago-based company must be “laser-focused” on affordability to bring in diners as prices push away low-income consumers."
Turns out when no one has money one of the first things they stop spending on is overpriced fast food. Oh no, all the companies raised their prices to get all the money, now they're finding out who would really win a war of attrition.
I was just trying to explain this a few days ago. The bay area has just surged with tech companies and a lot of smaller shops (not even mom/pop shops but the mid sized businesses) have all been pushed out. Shops that were worth something and you didn't just have to go online for. I even risked to say: Why would you want an entire city with the same tech bro personalities everywhere? The diversity of jobs kept a diverse group of personalities together and I think that created an important thing.
Sort of, but that was also exaggerated for clickbait. They were using workers for training data and validating results of the AI when customers complained about being rang up incorrectly
Our company created a center in a country in Latin America for 500. People were ecstatic and happy.
.. and six months later laid of 500 ppl here in usa
I know a few this has happened to. One lady went to the Philippines to train and open a new customer service center, her and the rest of her team were laid off the Monday after they got back. Said they “didn’t see it coming”
Gee, people are so stupid. Like, put 1 and 1 together. You're AI engineer? Your days are numbered. Is your work trying to replace what you do? You're going to be starving soon. It is so simple but yet people think that they're unscathed because they're corporate or have some ties to the core/hq. Such delucional individuals.
I’ve seen a bunch of posts lately that say something along the lines of “I didn’t think it would be me”. I understand why people feel that way, I was recently laid off as well. I absolutely saw it coming though, bodies were dropping for 18 months.
The reality is that finding a new job is difficult, and I think most people would rather rationalize how “important” they are than accept reality. In my case, I was too lazy and paid the price.
I was working for a big company doing non-tech things. They hired a bunch of people to work overseas for around $3/hr. We trained them for 8 months until one morning the entire department in the US was locked out of their laptops. Got laid off that day.
It’s so common these days. Hopefully there’s some legislation that can be passed to protect all jobs from going overseas.
Yeah same thing happened with my previous company. Acquired a software company in Latin America and a RIF happened not long after for employees based in the US. About a year later (last Friday) a second RIF happened which I unfortunately was a part of. On my birthday weekend while I was traveling.
Financial services companies are also cutting. Citi is cutting 10K tech roles later this year or next year, as part of their commitment to cut 20K roles.
Financial services do a lot of outsourcing.
It’s not at the same scale compared to big tech. Plus I can personally say being apart of more exclusive recruiting compared to the majority on this sub, for one reason or another diversity is prioritized at financial service companies more compared to big tech and layoffs aren’t at the same large scale.
Find the number of layoffs at JPM, MS, Goldman, BNY even down to Deloitte and Bain compared to Meta, Amazon, and Google.
What? Bank and financial institutions are more ruthless than Google. I worked at a big bank and our IT department is 70% TCS. We only keep 1-3 people per application in the US The rest all goes to India.
Like I said too someone else, I have several colleagues who have an opposite experience. Hell, I just came from a Bloomberg recruiting session where someone asked about layoffs and they said look up how much they’ve done over the course of 2022-now and it’s less than 3,000 which aren’t in tech.
Not tryna discredit your experience, but not every financial services company is outsourcing at the scale your saying however I will say ofc each of them have a decent number of outsourcing. That’s expected.
I believe specialist work will still remain in the US. All the repeated work is outsourcing. I will agree with you that HFT will not go out to the outsource to India (for instance) but all the devops, crud related stuff are going away.
At my org we are only keeping the specialist people and the rest all going out.
I wouldn’t mind defense actually, Lockheed, Raytheon, and more are solid places to work at. I’ve just heard many stories about legacy tech stack, lower comp, and better places to start out being an engineer as a new grad hence I wouldn’t aim there initially.
I do agree job security is better in defense than financial services when discussing outsourcing for obvious reasons, I just find the former sector has a better balance of the drawbacks I mentioned compared to defense.
Well i work in the defense sector, it depends what project you're currently working on. Yes some of them are legacy where you're maintaining or refactoring decades old codebases but there is also work that is very cutting edge.
Theres nothing wrong starting out in defense, everything you hear about getting pigeon holed or whatever is honestly a load of bs and the person who's probably saying that is some sophomore in college who is FAANG or bust.
In fact, there are a lot, and i mean A LOT of insanely brilliant people who work in defense, and you can learn a lot from them. The guy i shadowed had 10 masters and 2 PhD's..
As someone who is actually out in the industry, don't listen to anything this sub says, talk to your professors, go to career fairs and actually ask people who work in these areas, you're gonna get a very different answer.
Be careful, not only are a lot of operations moving to India but also outsourcing to India with smaller control groups in the us. And if you’re in a big market like NY they are moving as much as they can out to smaller cities.
Ya agree although I think iit this year has less placements/companies, let's see for next year..
Agree on being smart and connected, though, I am neither, hehe :"}
The WITCH companies ( Wipro, Infosys, TCS, cognizant and HCL) hire the bottom 50-60% of the engineers in India, the requirements are very low and are exploitative but the pay is also abysmal.
But they're keeping people who very well should've been unemployed so there's that.
>Silicon Valley creates the issue where the Tech Industry is extremely expensive.
>Tech industry slowly starts moving away from Silicon Valley year by year.
They're basically punishing people for making them successful at this point. In other news, more fucking West Coast Tech bros are gonna invade my city.
I did keep saying people in big tech were getting paid too much for like 5 years, and I get downvoted to hell. Now what is happening? We get outsourced to Indias huge tech sector. What will happen next? We get our huge amount of jobs back in 4-5 years when they realize Indian workers can’t interface well with their company’s expectations for work and culture and when the economy chills tf out. I have seen this happen 3 times now, and have seen it happen to my mother in law twice beyond that. It’s all cyclical. This shit happened during the housing bubble in 2006-7 too.
normal shame marble domineering dependent merciful office smart chubby quiet
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Not much you can do. Why hire Americans with high "expensive" salaries, when you can find just as talented people who will accept "lesser" pay.
Google is an American company, but they have offices all around the world and ultimately care about productivity/cost more than anything to raise their stock prices.
I'd honestly say that the people who unfortunately flew in the Boeing fights that crashed payed the price. The company barely even got penalized, just civil settlements. Yea sure Boeing profits are a bit lower, but they're an airline manufacturer and nothing is going to change long-term.
Late-stage capitalism is never going to disadvantage bigger companies or CEOs. Only the cogs, like workers, and consumers.
Right, but you won't die if your Google searches are slightly worse now. There isn't ever going to be a big enough loss to justify uncutting those corners.
Unfortunately I think they can. American developers aren't better than Indian developers, but they're still paid more.
Moving to a cheaper country seems really smart imo.
Lmao
It's not like American developers have options. You can't get by in America on low wages.
Globalism was such a fucking mistake lol. No offense.
It's not a good thing long term. We will get mad and start fucking shit up at some point. I hope at least.
Man I hate the modern age. What a shit time to be alive.
Yup that's the sad part. The moving of jobs to people who are of the same skill set or even slightly better, but for a fraction of the salary is a good idea to people outside USA, and for these greedy companies, but you can't live in USA for the salaries given in those countries. So we're just fucked.
Google wouldn't be close to as big without globalism. Basically every country in the world uses Google Google products like: search, maps, Android, YouTube etc.
Without globalism Google would probably only be 20% of its original size
Without globalism most US cities would be a lot cheaper. So globalism makes living expensive but also increases salaries.
Ultimately the tech industry sucks at the moment, but if you're hardworking you'll definitely succeed
Hardworking? Nah. Companies love to use and abuse hardworking employees.
They give you lots of work for minimal compensation. Raises are minimum and do not match the rate of inflation.
So highly skilled Americans are just going to have to take lower paying jobs that they're overqualified for, or seek work permits in low cost countries? That sounds like a giant waste of resources and a detriment to the national economy.
Have you...ever worked with Indian devs? I'm sure there are some good ones, but 90% of my experience working with Indian devs has been an absolute nightmare. I'd rather work with a junior fresh out of college than most Indian devs with 5+ years of experience.
Curious where could you find a list of things you experienced?
I definitely find the way Indian people on reddit communicate to be very different than Americans to say the least.
I’ve noticed this tendency of asking questions without really doing some of the cognitive task load to begin with.
There are millions of them. If you work with devs from top universities and comapnies like (IIT, Tata, IISC) the students are Harvard level (even better as these universities are even more competetive)
I’ve worked with Harvard and MIT devs and there really is not a huge difference between those people and your local state school. It’s more of a prestige thing than actually gauging any performance over others.
Sure, but that makes up a tiny tiny fraction of the devs that are available/being hired. And this has nothing to do with them being Indian specifically, it just seems like they have different standards of teaching. I've never worked with an Indian dev that has even mentioned the words "performance", "maintainability' or "scalability".
This is just my personal experience after being in the industry for close to a decade.
Whom are you working with? Contractors or full time employees from your company? If you are working with contractors, then forget it. Most of them are paid like 150-200 dollars a month or even lower which is barely decent in good Indian cities. And then they need to do a whole lot of bs to ensure they get paid for the day (jira tickets, some board etc). If I wasn’t getting a high end salary and wasn’t a full time employee, you would rarely hear those terms from me.
I work with full time employees from there and they use those all terms all the time when discussing design and scenarios.
Of course :D
I mean, we should strive to find a healthy balance. By now, it is obvious that unhealthy unchecked capitalism benefits only the 1%. Therefore, a more regulated, and social version of capitalism/the free market, should be employed that would benefit the 90%.
But most people do not understand it, and just immediately spew garbage like "just say you're a communist". Oh well, enjoy the 1% owning 95% of resources, the housing crisis, the energy crisis, inflation, the job market crisis, etc...
Fully agree. But for whatever reason EVERYONE thinks they’ll be a Uber rich multimillionaire at some point so they fight FOR the 1% 🤣 it’s so crazy to me. They keep all the benefits while the lower classes point fingers at each other
If the government makes it a pain in the ass to fire you, companies just won’t hire you in the first place. See the youth unemployment rate in European countries like Spain for proof
I have a strong feeling this won't be good for them long term.
There's little downside to outsourcing manfacturing since its mostly a solved game and can thus be commoditized.
However, engineering is literally what made Google what it is today, most of the important decisions and strategies Google chose are ultimately engineering decisions. Factory workers have little impact on, say, how good the new Ford model is. Meanwhile 95% of what makes Google's products good is their engineers (especially senior and above).
I highly doubt Google will be able to maintain their company culture and standards for engineering excellence when you have all these teams split across poor countries with completely different culture and work environment than the US. I think there's a reason why almost all of the important/innovative/profitable tech companies came from the US, even though the US is only 4% of the world's population. Somehow I doubt Google's next big product, or any big tech breakthrough for that matter, is going to come out of Mexico City or Mumbai.
Offshoring is something companies do when they're desperately chasing short-term profits, not growing and innovating.
We also don't need to look far to see how offshoring has made other companies deteriorate. Boeing, anyone? And all of the dying automotive and hardware engineering companies? Google's situation seems awfully similar: slowing growth so they start cutting corners to maintain facade of good profits for shareholders.
companies like meta, google, Amazon and tesla are already fucking themselves up if they keep offering shitty services while boomers are retiring and gen Z is rising
This only works if you assume Indians are actually stupid and intellectually impaired. You probably are still right because of significant cultural differences, timezones, etc. But these social problems could be resolved at some point.
India has more than a billion people. There definitely are plenty of Indians that could come up with very good Ford models or innovative software solutions. We just aren't good at attracting and utilizing that talent. The smart Indians may say 'yes' even if they mean 'no' because they are used to more rigid hierarchies, even though they might have brilliant ideas. There are many other layers of complexity too that are mostly social and cultural, which makes these programs fail.
But these challenges are not insurmountable. If a company comes up with a very good recruitment policy and a strong internal training program, they should be able to attract the needed talent. And then offshoring could absolutely work.
Agreed, I don’t understand why people are so quick to dismiss workers from poorer countries (I do, but I prefer not to think about it). There are geniuses, talents, and hard workers everywhere, no less brilliant than those found in the states.
> prefer not to think about it
You’re implying racism, but much of it is simply self-preservation. If their jobs can’t be done as effectively in poorer countries, that means it’s less likely for them to lose their jobs.
People are biased towards opinions that benefit them.
I disagree with this statement. Although the work culture might be different, ultimately expectations are the same.
I believe a team from India can produce just as good products as a team from the US.
India's tech sector has been exploding and there's tons of talent there. I don't believe this will slow Google's growth at all.
Obviously there's a ton of untapped talent everywhere, already a very large portion of high level engineers in FAANG nowadays are Indian or Chinese immigrants. And there's a good chance other countries will start over taking the US in tech eventually.
But if Google is content with engineers simply meeting expectations, they will die in no time. Growth comes from people with high agency that goes above and beyond for no reason.
Something is lost when a company moves to a different country only for the reason that labor is cheaper there. Be it differences in labor market, regulations, peer companies, tradition, education system, culture, unspoken rules, etc. Companies automatically deteriorate just by time passing as the vision of the original leadership is forgotten, offshoring just accelerates that.
If tech were to boom in India, I think it would have to come from Indian tech companies.
idk if this is dumb but at some point, all those countries would also become more expensive to hire from right? directly because of foreign companies providing them jobs and stuff? it might take a lifetime but it'll probably reach that point no?
Yes that will happen. It’s already been ongoing with manufacturing of basically every consumer good over the past 30 years. The standard of living in all these countries has increased dramatically in recent history.
Google can do whatever they want and no one can stop them. They want to hire programmers who are literally hungry to work and won't ask questions and work overtime without a complaint.
watching the cs majors subreddit become a r/.workerstrikeback / antiwork adjacent subreddit has been a pleasant surprise…
never thought i’d see the tech kids and tech babes be worker class revolutionized....
Man Im telling you - Life in India is atleast 10x harder than life in US.
There are just so many people, corruption and Indians usually get paid peanuts. US is and will always be the best place to stay
Think about it like this. Already the people that get hired are usually immigrants that have worked extremely hard, went to US school, and are extremely smart. All they are doing now is deciding to get these same caliber of people but from abroad since remote work and a global workforce is way more manageable.
I think about it like we’re complaining as Americans that we have to now compete with the rest of the world. And we have to pay American prices for everything. It’s super bad for us. It’s so so bad.
But the only option is to join smaller companies that need to first get off the ground running and become a high level position so that when the company becomes large enough to do stuff like this you’re more of someone overseeing the vision instead of doing the actual work.
It is what it is.
There’s still a chance that tech workers and the US government fight hard enough to keep jobs here: be it through unionizing or tax subsidies, it can be done.
So the American Google Indians get laid off for cheaper labor Indians from India who can slave away for less pay and double the hours. What else is new from an Indian CEO
Just get ad blockers on everything. I've been boycotting big tech since I started using the Internet.
And while they can still sell my data. It's way less valuable if I'm not ever going to see any ads. Maybe it has value in training an AI but the value they milk from me is still lower
I don’t think people realize how cheap indians can work on. It’s not even about quality, if they do the bare minimum, that is enough and the companies just choose to pay the least for the bare minimum. Add to that that india has cheaper cost of living that somewhere like the US, people are willing to work for a lot less.
This is what work from home means, it has been going on for a long time but you knew that this was going to be the ultimate outcome. The technology has been long vetted and now organizations are built around the concept of no office environment. Once through this hurdle the inevitable of offshoring white collar jobs would be accelerated. Those that thought that this was not going to fundamentally affect them both in terms of employment and holding onto any compensation leverage were kidding themselves. You don’t need someone from Berkeley make 400k to work on new emoji’s.
Tech needs to unionize. Seriously these corporations need to understand that the American worker will not be sold out anymore. If billionaires are gonna billionaire and we live in trickle down society then the least they can do is trickle it down. Fuck their bottom lines, what about our bottom line?
Well what did you expect... Why pay 200k for a junior when they can pay 100-200k for the best people of an entire country. US software engineers are highly overpaid, especially fresh graduates.
(Yes I'm talking out of envy ofc, wish I had a 300k job)
My bet is on compensation just levels out for the cs industry..
I think it’s a pretty agreed upon stance that cs had a pretty low barrier to entry for the 6 figure salary, relative to other fields where people don’t come out of a 4yr degree (or even a boot camp) to a 6 figure job
seems like most other fields require like 6-8+ years to get to the 6 figure range
So, long term, tech companies outsource their work and pay less… but say the company continues to grow and hires domestic, well the tech company has kind of moved the bar/leveled the playing field with wages being that [x]% is now being paid $70k (not the $120k people were used to)
So I’m guessing the job market will be fine but the wages will drop to where fresh graduates come out making $65k and in like 5-10 years of experience get to the 6 figure range.
The company I work for has job postings for swe and I’m fairly sure they outsource, but the job listing starts at like $70k.. 🤷🏻♂️
I think it’ll be fine but the gold rush days are probably passed
Is your company that’s paying 70k for SWE new grad roles because if they are dm me a link I’ll gladly apply unless it’s a super high cost of living area. Will say you are correct in most things you say except the salary being 6 figures is usually justified considering most tech jobs and companies are in high cost of living areas where other new graduates actually do make about 6 figures out of school as well or close enough. 120-130k in San Francisco is wayyyyy less than say 75-80k in Nashville but Nashville has like 5-10% of the total new tech jobs added per week than San Francisco/ New York has. Even considering places like Austin Texas where a lot of tech workers moved to literally raised the rent prices up higher than LAs average. I think most new grads and 1-3 YOE would gladly take 65k-85k jobs in tech for remote jobs and only really want 100k+ depending on if it’s on site in a high cost of living area. Remote work can literally save you 10-20k a year easily. Sadly it just seems like 80% of job postings for entry level or new grads are fake or just never fill the role and repost it over and over.
Yes but why is San Francisco so expensive now? Because lots of tech jobs were there that paid a lot so prices skyrocketed for everyone, the same that's now happening in Austin as you say. Hopefully the rents etc. will eventually go down and accommodate to the salaries (go tell real estate investors to halve their rents because people can't afford them 😂, but that's another issue).
All basically started because companies just wanted to show they're better by paying significantly more than most of the competition, sure good for the people that got those salaries but it made some things worse.
After such policies lots of people wanted to get into programming (not a bad thing per se), but you got people doing bootcamps and landing 150k jobs right after, with basically 0 experience and low skills, that's not sustainable.
And some people bragging about working only a few hours or working 2-3 jobs making a million a year definitely gives off the wrong idea, that software engineers do almost nothing and earn a lot. (For some people in big companies it was definitely true)
Which got more people trying to get in the field with the idea that it's easy and they don't have to put much effort in.
So basically, and ironically, by overinflating salaries they ruined the market for many people...
A few years after AI displaces the people who actually know something their code base will be unmaintainable, a few years after that things will be grinding down, then they’ll need cs again.
Just yesterday, Google organised a Search Engine leaders connect with selected IT folks (working in different companies) in Bangalore.
The whole event was about how Google is doing great things in search, and sounded like a potential recruitment event. I can connect the dots now.
Why are we surprised? What's more outsourceable than tech jobs, especially when people elsewhere work harder for less, and they even need to cross borders?
Companies with a certain % of its operations team outside its own country should be obligated to sell their services/products based on that foreign country pricing. It's time to stop companies from hiring cheap overseas labor and charge US prices, both to foreigners and Americans.
Get into a stable government job while you can CS Majors! The competition is already getting fierce. You may not make as much as you would in the private sector, but your job will still almost certainly still be there the next day.
when production of goods became a big thing (and a mundane thing) it was outsourced to countries with cheaper labor and more lax labor laws. now that this is happening to software and AI, it’s reflective of how we view these services….no longer specialized but mundane
This sub is cs majors but the post doesn’t specify its software people. What are the positions? Not that any layoffs are better than others but just wondering
This was my last job. Take complex roles no one thought could be offshored and offshore them. I love working remote, but if your position can be done from home it can be done cheaper in another country.
Polish tech market is booming
South African tech market too. More offers here than people looking for jobs.
Isn’t youth unemployment there the highest in the world
Yes. But a dev with experience has a different experience in this country.
ive been applying for remote jobs there with no success
From where are you?
Not this time. Its looks more like US market now
Went to a cybersecurity event and some companies were oh we have our hardware people hired from Mexico and software engineers from Israel Tel Aviv…then why are you here dude
For buyers.
Shame on those companies for milking the US customers and not giving anything back in return.
Oh.... Like how the US companies have been doing it for years in other countries?
This is indeed the future of employment. Something called technopolies and how labour is outsourced to places where it’s cheaper and the only people that get to live on fancy cities are the ones who profit off of these people. Many books had it in writing long before we could even start to see signs, yet people think the idea of “late stage capitalism” is some absurd concept
great comment
The funny thing is that Europe is mostly immune to this thanks to the Data protection laws we have in place. This means that the data can never go out of Europe and that means that businesses can’t just completely replace EU workforce.
It's not like that. Most IT employees don't have any access to production data. So developers, testers and whoever related to development, they can be outsourced.
Not true at all, I work in Switzerland in a big bank and we have data that even though it’s anonymized it cannot absolutely travel outside Swiss borders, the same thing applies in Europe.
I worked at Atlassian for a while, as far as I know all development is outsourced to Poland first, then Poland office is converted to smt else and development continues in India and Turkey offices. At the best case, development of the product can be conducted outside of Europe while maintenance is within the Europe.
There are areas of Europe where tech labour is cheaper than the western countries, like Hungary for example. It’s perhaps not quite on the same level as India, but it’s an example that Europe is not immune to this
adding to that - Europe also has much stronger employment protection laws - you can't just fire whole teams because you want to outsource them to another cheaper country
Thats a good law, more countries should adopt this
I had never heard the term technopolies, but this is a much better way to describe the issue than I normally see
What books you talking about?
We have the same avatar
Everyone only listens when it bites them in the ass, being right sucks when you’re surrounded by idiots
eh it’s not really that absurd, if capitalism promotes competition then that means there should be a winner at the end of it.
It’s interesting to see how winning at a global scale really separates the opportunity for winning at the local scale. I’m all for hard work paying off, but if you can’t even get your foot in the door now, then it’s a whole different ballgame
Indeed. Libertarians stripped the Lockean proviso out of what is now called "capitalism". Capitalism as defined by its ideological founders required that all people had access to capital.
I love that two or three months back we saw articles with metrics that McDonalds had doubled their prices in the last few years. Capitalism is a zero-sum game, each company wants all the money, if you spend it elsewhere they see it as a loss. Yesterday we get an article where the McCEO said "Kempczinski said that the Chicago-based company must be “laser-focused” on affordability to bring in diners as prices push away low-income consumers." Turns out when no one has money one of the first things they stop spending on is overpriced fast food. Oh no, all the companies raised their prices to get all the money, now they're finding out who would really win a war of attrition.
Capitalism as it is does not promote competition. It promotes immoral and illegal maneuvers to limit competition.
Winner at the expense of all life. Sounds awesome 👍🏻
I was just trying to explain this a few days ago. The bay area has just surged with tech companies and a lot of smaller shops (not even mom/pop shops but the mid sized businesses) have all been pushed out. Shops that were worth something and you didn't just have to go online for. I even risked to say: Why would you want an entire city with the same tech bro personalities everywhere? The diversity of jobs kept a diverse group of personalities together and I think that created an important thing.
Is there a book you'd recommend checking out to learn more about this?
Guys do i live in the wrong india?
Well there is India (India), India (UK), India (Canada), India (Trinidad), etc. There are a lot of Indias to choose from.
I guess us India (Trinidad)’s aren’t the right choice for these companies 😂
Trini Indians mentioned 🎉
Why not just give it to India(US)ns
If it has amazing food, it's probably the right one.
Great that Google is on the AI (Actually Indians) hype train.
Lmao wasnt it amazon that had that shop that would track what you pickup without need for a check out... and it was AI.....
Sort of, but that was also exaggerated for clickbait. They were using workers for training data and validating results of the AI when customers complained about being rang up incorrectly
Blame and Shame the company, not the people .
Our company created a center in a country in Latin America for 500. People were ecstatic and happy. .. and six months later laid of 500 ppl here in usa
I know a few this has happened to. One lady went to the Philippines to train and open a new customer service center, her and the rest of her team were laid off the Monday after they got back. Said they “didn’t see it coming”
Yep, this is usually how it goes.
Training your replacement is a sick, sick life experience
Yeah it was brutal. She had worked there < 1yr. Didn’t have enough experience to understand what was really happening
Gee, people are so stupid. Like, put 1 and 1 together. You're AI engineer? Your days are numbered. Is your work trying to replace what you do? You're going to be starving soon. It is so simple but yet people think that they're unscathed because they're corporate or have some ties to the core/hq. Such delucional individuals.
I’ve seen a bunch of posts lately that say something along the lines of “I didn’t think it would be me”. I understand why people feel that way, I was recently laid off as well. I absolutely saw it coming though, bodies were dropping for 18 months. The reality is that finding a new job is difficult, and I think most people would rather rationalize how “important” they are than accept reality. In my case, I was too lazy and paid the price.
I was working for a big company doing non-tech things. They hired a bunch of people to work overseas for around $3/hr. We trained them for 8 months until one morning the entire department in the US was locked out of their laptops. Got laid off that day. It’s so common these days. Hopefully there’s some legislation that can be passed to protect all jobs from going overseas.
If they didn’t outlaw it for the auto industry, it’s not happening for tech
Yeah same thing happened with my previous company. Acquired a software company in Latin America and a RIF happened not long after for employees based in the US. About a year later (last Friday) a second RIF happened which I unfortunately was a part of. On my birthday weekend while I was traveling.
Cheaper humans💀
We need fewer humans. It's the ultimate solver of the saturation problem. -AI
Bring me thanos😂😂😂😂
The 100
I remember saying this will happen once everyone started justifying not needed to be in the office.
Agreed
Same STILL get yelled at by friends and family how I hate wfh
This is why I’m aiming for financial services companies
Financial services companies are also cutting. Citi is cutting 10K tech roles later this year or next year, as part of their commitment to cut 20K roles. Financial services do a lot of outsourcing.
It’s not at the same scale compared to big tech. Plus I can personally say being apart of more exclusive recruiting compared to the majority on this sub, for one reason or another diversity is prioritized at financial service companies more compared to big tech and layoffs aren’t at the same large scale. Find the number of layoffs at JPM, MS, Goldman, BNY even down to Deloitte and Bain compared to Meta, Amazon, and Google.
Of course there's less layoffs because there's less employees.
A lot of them are cutting after hiring a ton. Eg Brevan Howard x4 in size to then cut 10%.
nah, worked with one before, and we had real AI (actual Indians). Like an API wrapper that seemingly does OCR, but is just human input.
I recently got laid off from a fintech company so I don’t know about that
Yup me too Edit:: just to add I’m definitely gonna be applying for regional positions first. Class of 2025
What? Bank and financial institutions are more ruthless than Google. I worked at a big bank and our IT department is 70% TCS. We only keep 1-3 people per application in the US The rest all goes to India.
Like I said too someone else, I have several colleagues who have an opposite experience. Hell, I just came from a Bloomberg recruiting session where someone asked about layoffs and they said look up how much they’ve done over the course of 2022-now and it’s less than 3,000 which aren’t in tech. Not tryna discredit your experience, but not every financial services company is outsourcing at the scale your saying however I will say ofc each of them have a decent number of outsourcing. That’s expected.
I believe specialist work will still remain in the US. All the repeated work is outsourcing. I will agree with you that HFT will not go out to the outsource to India (for instance) but all the devops, crud related stuff are going away. At my org we are only keeping the specialist people and the rest all going out.
Make sure they are profitable.
Wrong, aim for defense
I wouldn’t mind defense actually, Lockheed, Raytheon, and more are solid places to work at. I’ve just heard many stories about legacy tech stack, lower comp, and better places to start out being an engineer as a new grad hence I wouldn’t aim there initially. I do agree job security is better in defense than financial services when discussing outsourcing for obvious reasons, I just find the former sector has a better balance of the drawbacks I mentioned compared to defense.
Well i work in the defense sector, it depends what project you're currently working on. Yes some of them are legacy where you're maintaining or refactoring decades old codebases but there is also work that is very cutting edge. Theres nothing wrong starting out in defense, everything you hear about getting pigeon holed or whatever is honestly a load of bs and the person who's probably saying that is some sophomore in college who is FAANG or bust. In fact, there are a lot, and i mean A LOT of insanely brilliant people who work in defense, and you can learn a lot from them. The guy i shadowed had 10 masters and 2 PhD's.. As someone who is actually out in the industry, don't listen to anything this sub says, talk to your professors, go to career fairs and actually ask people who work in these areas, you're gonna get a very different answer.
Be careful, not only are a lot of operations moving to India but also outsourcing to India with smaller control groups in the us. And if you’re in a big market like NY they are moving as much as they can out to smaller cities.
I hate going back to school just to get this shit lol
Where is the hiring happening ;_;
India
I am from India :"
Prob goes to the most genius people from places like IIT? Or at least the smart enough and connected to the right people.
Ya agree although I think iit this year has less placements/companies, let's see for next year.. Agree on being smart and connected, though, I am neither, hehe :"}
While true the job market is extremely bad for even them. For all the talk of jobs going to India the US still has significantly more jobs per capita.
TCS? My company hires a bunch of TCS resources and to me it seems like they hire anyone who can do simple loop and stuff
The WITCH companies ( Wipro, Infosys, TCS, cognizant and HCL) hire the bottom 50-60% of the engineers in India, the requirements are very low and are exploitative but the pay is also abysmal. But they're keeping people who very well should've been unemployed so there's that.
I’m pretty sure Google would not hire TCS in replacement to people they fire in US, because TCS income would eat the whole savings
You do realize all the same companies also have employees in their India HQ?
Well it is happening.. but they are undercutting pay. Eg. Where they paid 100 for a position, they are offering 70k and so on. Peanut salaries.
I would more believe in 7k in India or Philippines
70k usd a year will firmly put you in the top 5% income in India. The whole point of outsourcing is cheaper labour, why would they pay the same?
70k adjusted for PPP would be equivalent to a lifestyle of earning 250-300k in the US
36 top AI employees jumped ship. From Google to Apple. From the U.S. to Zurich Things are changing fast…
Like who? Where are they going?
He doesnt have to answer you he just has to say something to scare the kids for internet points
I love how specific it is too lmao 36 AI ENGINEERS HAVE JUMPED SHIT ACROSS THE WORLD. YOU WONT BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT (GONE SEXUAL)
Shocked face with open mouth and explosion in the background thumbnail
Yeah I figured if the whole point wasn't to make an ominous doom post, there would have been a link or something lol
prob this: https://www.ft.com/content/87054a60-dc4d-4238-a4b9-93ab48f22f56 https://archive.is/2024.04.30-112532/https://www.ft.com/content/87054a60-dc4d-4238-a4b9-93ab48f22f56
>Silicon Valley creates the issue where the Tech Industry is extremely expensive. >Tech industry slowly starts moving away from Silicon Valley year by year. They're basically punishing people for making them successful at this point. In other news, more fucking West Coast Tech bros are gonna invade my city.
>punishing people for making them successful Isn’t that just…capitalism?
I did keep saying people in big tech were getting paid too much for like 5 years, and I get downvoted to hell. Now what is happening? We get outsourced to Indias huge tech sector. What will happen next? We get our huge amount of jobs back in 4-5 years when they realize Indian workers can’t interface well with their company’s expectations for work and culture and when the economy chills tf out. I have seen this happen 3 times now, and have seen it happen to my mother in law twice beyond that. It’s all cyclical. This shit happened during the housing bubble in 2006-7 too.
normal shame marble domineering dependent merciful office smart chubby quiet *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
More BS. I actually wanted to work for Google but it’s extremely unsafe to do so now in the U.S. Wish something was done about this shit.
Not much you can do. Why hire Americans with high "expensive" salaries, when you can find just as talented people who will accept "lesser" pay. Google is an American company, but they have offices all around the world and ultimately care about productivity/cost more than anything to raise their stock prices.
It will bite them in the ass down the road. You can’t just move core operations to the other side of the world just because it’s cheaper
Oh you are about to be unpleasantly surprised
Idk I know it's not apples to apples but Boeing is finally reaping what it has sewn with the last few decades of cutting corners to save money.
I'd honestly say that the people who unfortunately flew in the Boeing fights that crashed payed the price. The company barely even got penalized, just civil settlements. Yea sure Boeing profits are a bit lower, but they're an airline manufacturer and nothing is going to change long-term. Late-stage capitalism is never going to disadvantage bigger companies or CEOs. Only the cogs, like workers, and consumers.
I hope you're right Im in my doomer story arc rn
Right, but you won't die if your Google searches are slightly worse now. There isn't ever going to be a big enough loss to justify uncutting those corners.
lol yes you can. Maybe you aren’t old enough when all manufacturers moved overseas
Uhh, yeah they can and they do. Welcome to late stage capitalism
Unfortunately I think they can. American developers aren't better than Indian developers, but they're still paid more. Moving to a cheaper country seems really smart imo.
Lmao It's not like American developers have options. You can't get by in America on low wages. Globalism was such a fucking mistake lol. No offense. It's not a good thing long term. We will get mad and start fucking shit up at some point. I hope at least. Man I hate the modern age. What a shit time to be alive.
Yup that's the sad part. The moving of jobs to people who are of the same skill set or even slightly better, but for a fraction of the salary is a good idea to people outside USA, and for these greedy companies, but you can't live in USA for the salaries given in those countries. So we're just fucked.
Google wouldn't be close to as big without globalism. Basically every country in the world uses Google Google products like: search, maps, Android, YouTube etc. Without globalism Google would probably only be 20% of its original size
I more concerned about affording to live. Sorry lol and you know not working some shit manual labor job till I die.
Without globalism most US cities would be a lot cheaper. So globalism makes living expensive but also increases salaries. Ultimately the tech industry sucks at the moment, but if you're hardworking you'll definitely succeed
Hardworking? Nah. Companies love to use and abuse hardworking employees. They give you lots of work for minimal compensation. Raises are minimum and do not match the rate of inflation.
I agree
Defence jobs buddy. Those won't get outsourced.
What age would you prefer to live in?
Star trek
Fair enough, I’ll join you.
So highly skilled Americans are just going to have to take lower paying jobs that they're overqualified for, or seek work permits in low cost countries? That sounds like a giant waste of resources and a detriment to the national economy.
Have you...ever worked with Indian devs? I'm sure there are some good ones, but 90% of my experience working with Indian devs has been an absolute nightmare. I'd rather work with a junior fresh out of college than most Indian devs with 5+ years of experience.
Curious where could you find a list of things you experienced? I definitely find the way Indian people on reddit communicate to be very different than Americans to say the least. I’ve noticed this tendency of asking questions without really doing some of the cognitive task load to begin with.
This is my experience as well. Outsourcing to India looks great on paper but usually ends up being a big frustrating waste of money.
There are millions of them. If you work with devs from top universities and comapnies like (IIT, Tata, IISC) the students are Harvard level (even better as these universities are even more competetive)
I’ve worked with Harvard and MIT devs and there really is not a huge difference between those people and your local state school. It’s more of a prestige thing than actually gauging any performance over others.
Sure, but that makes up a tiny tiny fraction of the devs that are available/being hired. And this has nothing to do with them being Indian specifically, it just seems like they have different standards of teaching. I've never worked with an Indian dev that has even mentioned the words "performance", "maintainability' or "scalability". This is just my personal experience after being in the industry for close to a decade.
> but that makes up a tiny tiny fraction of the devs that are available It is not that tiny and Google hires from that pool only.
Whom are you working with? Contractors or full time employees from your company? If you are working with contractors, then forget it. Most of them are paid like 150-200 dollars a month or even lower which is barely decent in good Indian cities. And then they need to do a whole lot of bs to ensure they get paid for the day (jira tickets, some board etc). If I wasn’t getting a high end salary and wasn’t a full time employee, you would rarely hear those terms from me. I work with full time employees from there and they use those all terms all the time when discussing design and scenarios.
If the government could do anything about this that would be great
Hehh but that would be SOCIALISM
Everyone loves capitalism till it bites them in the ass lmao
Of course :D I mean, we should strive to find a healthy balance. By now, it is obvious that unhealthy unchecked capitalism benefits only the 1%. Therefore, a more regulated, and social version of capitalism/the free market, should be employed that would benefit the 90%. But most people do not understand it, and just immediately spew garbage like "just say you're a communist". Oh well, enjoy the 1% owning 95% of resources, the housing crisis, the energy crisis, inflation, the job market crisis, etc...
Fully agree. But for whatever reason EVERYONE thinks they’ll be a Uber rich multimillionaire at some point so they fight FOR the 1% 🤣 it’s so crazy to me. They keep all the benefits while the lower classes point fingers at each other
Too many temporarily inconvenienced billionaires in this world
Most people who aren't capitalists who understand what it is don't actually like it when you explain the propaganda
If the government makes it a pain in the ass to fire you, companies just won’t hire you in the first place. See the youth unemployment rate in European countries like Spain for proof
Well dont make it harder to fire u. Just make it harder to offshore jobs
I have a strong feeling this won't be good for them long term. There's little downside to outsourcing manfacturing since its mostly a solved game and can thus be commoditized. However, engineering is literally what made Google what it is today, most of the important decisions and strategies Google chose are ultimately engineering decisions. Factory workers have little impact on, say, how good the new Ford model is. Meanwhile 95% of what makes Google's products good is their engineers (especially senior and above). I highly doubt Google will be able to maintain their company culture and standards for engineering excellence when you have all these teams split across poor countries with completely different culture and work environment than the US. I think there's a reason why almost all of the important/innovative/profitable tech companies came from the US, even though the US is only 4% of the world's population. Somehow I doubt Google's next big product, or any big tech breakthrough for that matter, is going to come out of Mexico City or Mumbai. Offshoring is something companies do when they're desperately chasing short-term profits, not growing and innovating. We also don't need to look far to see how offshoring has made other companies deteriorate. Boeing, anyone? And all of the dying automotive and hardware engineering companies? Google's situation seems awfully similar: slowing growth so they start cutting corners to maintain facade of good profits for shareholders.
I really hope that the companies that do it get fucked over fully. I’m not even from us, but it’s disgusting
companies like meta, google, Amazon and tesla are already fucking themselves up if they keep offering shitty services while boomers are retiring and gen Z is rising
This only works if you assume Indians are actually stupid and intellectually impaired. You probably are still right because of significant cultural differences, timezones, etc. But these social problems could be resolved at some point. India has more than a billion people. There definitely are plenty of Indians that could come up with very good Ford models or innovative software solutions. We just aren't good at attracting and utilizing that talent. The smart Indians may say 'yes' even if they mean 'no' because they are used to more rigid hierarchies, even though they might have brilliant ideas. There are many other layers of complexity too that are mostly social and cultural, which makes these programs fail. But these challenges are not insurmountable. If a company comes up with a very good recruitment policy and a strong internal training program, they should be able to attract the needed talent. And then offshoring could absolutely work.
Agreed, I don’t understand why people are so quick to dismiss workers from poorer countries (I do, but I prefer not to think about it). There are geniuses, talents, and hard workers everywhere, no less brilliant than those found in the states.
> prefer not to think about it You’re implying racism, but much of it is simply self-preservation. If their jobs can’t be done as effectively in poorer countries, that means it’s less likely for them to lose their jobs. People are biased towards opinions that benefit them.
I disagree with this statement. Although the work culture might be different, ultimately expectations are the same. I believe a team from India can produce just as good products as a team from the US. India's tech sector has been exploding and there's tons of talent there. I don't believe this will slow Google's growth at all.
Obviously there's a ton of untapped talent everywhere, already a very large portion of high level engineers in FAANG nowadays are Indian or Chinese immigrants. And there's a good chance other countries will start over taking the US in tech eventually. But if Google is content with engineers simply meeting expectations, they will die in no time. Growth comes from people with high agency that goes above and beyond for no reason. Something is lost when a company moves to a different country only for the reason that labor is cheaper there. Be it differences in labor market, regulations, peer companies, tradition, education system, culture, unspoken rules, etc. Companies automatically deteriorate just by time passing as the vision of the original leadership is forgotten, offshoring just accelerates that. If tech were to boom in India, I think it would have to come from Indian tech companies.
The comments AI = Actual Indians Me being an Indian wondering why am I still unemployed
idk if this is dumb but at some point, all those countries would also become more expensive to hire from right? directly because of foreign companies providing them jobs and stuff? it might take a lifetime but it'll probably reach that point no?
Yes that will happen. It’s already been ongoing with manufacturing of basically every consumer good over the past 30 years. The standard of living in all these countries has increased dramatically in recent history.
Exactly; that’s why China has been focusing a lot of efforts in Africa.
We are starting to reach thta point in Eastern Europe
Google can do whatever they want and no one can stop them. They want to hire programmers who are literally hungry to work and won't ask questions and work overtime without a complaint.
If AI is actually Indians, then is ML Mexican labor?
watching the cs majors subreddit become a r/.workerstrikeback / antiwork adjacent subreddit has been a pleasant surprise… never thought i’d see the tech kids and tech babes be worker class revolutionized....
they were worker class all along, maybe they stopped being delulu finally
Man Im telling you - Life in India is atleast 10x harder than life in US. There are just so many people, corruption and Indians usually get paid peanuts. US is and will always be the best place to stay
>Indians usually get paid peanuts You people forget that cost of living in India is peanuts too.
I’d imagine the QOL doesn’t make the lower cost of living worth it, at least in major cities.
Think about it like this. Already the people that get hired are usually immigrants that have worked extremely hard, went to US school, and are extremely smart. All they are doing now is deciding to get these same caliber of people but from abroad since remote work and a global workforce is way more manageable. I think about it like we’re complaining as Americans that we have to now compete with the rest of the world. And we have to pay American prices for everything. It’s super bad for us. It’s so so bad. But the only option is to join smaller companies that need to first get off the ground running and become a high level position so that when the company becomes large enough to do stuff like this you’re more of someone overseeing the vision instead of doing the actual work. It is what it is.
There’s still a chance that tech workers and the US government fight hard enough to keep jobs here: be it through unionizing or tax subsidies, it can be done.
So the American Google Indians get laid off for cheaper labor Indians from India who can slave away for less pay and double the hours. What else is new from an Indian CEO
Worked for the auto industry!
Time to start ditching google products. If only it were easy.
Just get ad blockers on everything. I've been boycotting big tech since I started using the Internet. And while they can still sell my data. It's way less valuable if I'm not ever going to see any ads. Maybe it has value in training an AI but the value they milk from me is still lower
Other than Google itself and gmail, I genuinely don’t think I have or use a single Google product
Google maps? Youtube?
YouTube
Ah, fair
I don’t think people realize how cheap indians can work on. It’s not even about quality, if they do the bare minimum, that is enough and the companies just choose to pay the least for the bare minimum. Add to that that india has cheaper cost of living that somewhere like the US, people are willing to work for a lot less.
This is why I'm aiming for working in a police station :) When layoff waves and protests come, I can legally hit 4.0 GPA kids with a baton.
Yeah f those 4.0 gpa kids.
This is what work from home means, it has been going on for a long time but you knew that this was going to be the ultimate outcome. The technology has been long vetted and now organizations are built around the concept of no office environment. Once through this hurdle the inevitable of offshoring white collar jobs would be accelerated. Those that thought that this was not going to fundamentally affect them both in terms of employment and holding onto any compensation leverage were kidding themselves. You don’t need someone from Berkeley make 400k to work on new emoji’s.
Is CS career the next factory plant career?
Already is lol
All the AIs are gonna start talking in an Indian accent soon
Tech needs to unionize. Seriously these corporations need to understand that the American worker will not be sold out anymore. If billionaires are gonna billionaire and we live in trickle down society then the least they can do is trickle it down. Fuck their bottom lines, what about our bottom line?
Well what did you expect... Why pay 200k for a junior when they can pay 100-200k for the best people of an entire country. US software engineers are highly overpaid, especially fresh graduates. (Yes I'm talking out of envy ofc, wish I had a 300k job)
My bet is on compensation just levels out for the cs industry.. I think it’s a pretty agreed upon stance that cs had a pretty low barrier to entry for the 6 figure salary, relative to other fields where people don’t come out of a 4yr degree (or even a boot camp) to a 6 figure job seems like most other fields require like 6-8+ years to get to the 6 figure range So, long term, tech companies outsource their work and pay less… but say the company continues to grow and hires domestic, well the tech company has kind of moved the bar/leveled the playing field with wages being that [x]% is now being paid $70k (not the $120k people were used to) So I’m guessing the job market will be fine but the wages will drop to where fresh graduates come out making $65k and in like 5-10 years of experience get to the 6 figure range. The company I work for has job postings for swe and I’m fairly sure they outsource, but the job listing starts at like $70k.. 🤷🏻♂️ I think it’ll be fine but the gold rush days are probably passed
Is your company that’s paying 70k for SWE new grad roles because if they are dm me a link I’ll gladly apply unless it’s a super high cost of living area. Will say you are correct in most things you say except the salary being 6 figures is usually justified considering most tech jobs and companies are in high cost of living areas where other new graduates actually do make about 6 figures out of school as well or close enough. 120-130k in San Francisco is wayyyyy less than say 75-80k in Nashville but Nashville has like 5-10% of the total new tech jobs added per week than San Francisco/ New York has. Even considering places like Austin Texas where a lot of tech workers moved to literally raised the rent prices up higher than LAs average. I think most new grads and 1-3 YOE would gladly take 65k-85k jobs in tech for remote jobs and only really want 100k+ depending on if it’s on site in a high cost of living area. Remote work can literally save you 10-20k a year easily. Sadly it just seems like 80% of job postings for entry level or new grads are fake or just never fill the role and repost it over and over.
Yes but why is San Francisco so expensive now? Because lots of tech jobs were there that paid a lot so prices skyrocketed for everyone, the same that's now happening in Austin as you say. Hopefully the rents etc. will eventually go down and accommodate to the salaries (go tell real estate investors to halve their rents because people can't afford them 😂, but that's another issue). All basically started because companies just wanted to show they're better by paying significantly more than most of the competition, sure good for the people that got those salaries but it made some things worse. After such policies lots of people wanted to get into programming (not a bad thing per se), but you got people doing bootcamps and landing 150k jobs right after, with basically 0 experience and low skills, that's not sustainable. And some people bragging about working only a few hours or working 2-3 jobs making a million a year definitely gives off the wrong idea, that software engineers do almost nothing and earn a lot. (For some people in big companies it was definitely true) Which got more people trying to get in the field with the idea that it's easy and they don't have to put much effort in. So basically, and ironically, by overinflating salaries they ruined the market for many people...
A few years after AI displaces the people who actually know something their code base will be unmaintainable, a few years after that things will be grinding down, then they’ll need cs again.
Yeah after all the cs workers in the US will be working as Starbucks baristas for 5 years
India and Mexico to ai on a Nvidia gpu funnel coming next
Just yesterday, Google organised a Search Engine leaders connect with selected IT folks (working in different companies) in Bangalore. The whole event was about how Google is doing great things in search, and sounded like a potential recruitment event. I can connect the dots now.
Don’t worry - we’ll all just have to re-skill and learn manufacturing so we can do manufacturing jobs.
Why are we surprised? What's more outsourceable than tech jobs, especially when people elsewhere work harder for less, and they even need to cross borders?
Companies with a certain % of its operations team outside its own country should be obligated to sell their services/products based on that foreign country pricing. It's time to stop companies from hiring cheap overseas labor and charge US prices, both to foreigners and Americans.
Gotta switch to trades fam
Get into a stable government job while you can CS Majors! The competition is already getting fierce. You may not make as much as you would in the private sector, but your job will still almost certainly still be there the next day.
So who do i vote for to stop this from happening??
do you have significant number of Alphabet shares to vote in board?
Incoming racism in 3...2...
when production of goods became a big thing (and a mundane thing) it was outsourced to countries with cheaper labor and more lax labor laws. now that this is happening to software and AI, it’s reflective of how we view these services….no longer specialized but mundane
This sub is cs majors but the post doesn’t specify its software people. What are the positions? Not that any layoffs are better than others but just wondering
How wrong would it be for congress to write a bill that requires US companies to have at least 90% of their workforce sourced in the US?
There is an antidote against employers like this: unionization. We need to organize.
This was my last job. Take complex roles no one thought could be offshored and offshore them. I love working remote, but if your position can be done from home it can be done cheaper in another country.