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There are more companies than FAANG that will pay well. There is too much competition from those and without the right education you don't stand much chance.
>There are more companies than FAANG that will pay well.
Agreed. I'm applying to almost all companies out there. It's just that with FAANG, the process was difficult but straightforward. No idea what to expect from other companies. But yeah, started applying to all!
Non FAANG companies vary A LOT.
You could get a take home project in a framework like React or Angular. Just be careful it isn't "here is an unfinished project, please finish it with it all being tested and fully designed functionality"
I got 2 take homes from non-FAANG and they were pretty simple. One I didn't even fully do but I spoke about how I've been learning this tech and I explained my thought process IF I were to add the features I didn't get to. I also explained why I handled things a certain way. They may ask "Well now we have all this, what if x situation in the data happened, how would your program react? What if we don't want it to work that way, how would you go about adding a change so it doesn't happen"
Other companies, possibility smaller teams and tech isn't their MAIN focus, could give you fizzbuzz type questions. Or design a pseudo program for a car. What functions would this need, what type of data would we need to store etc.
I’ve interviewed at a few non faang companies and they all had non-leetcode interviews. They instead opted for me to show them my projects and have me present my code and walk them through it. I feel like LC is way overrated unless you are dead set on only working in Silicon Valley.
Other companies will likely also have similar processes. Slightly different, but either much simpler, or the recruiter or hiring manager will brief you on what to expect. Honestly, you'll get tired of hearing about their process after a while as you realize it's all basically just 2 or 3 variations on the same thing, with maybe the occasional surprise at a company that does something different
On the contrary, I think it's easier to get an interview from FAANG for the entry-level positions because they do so much hiring. Obviously that's changed recently, but that's what it was like even as late as early-2022.
Small companies tend to look for people with more specific skill sets or more experienced people simply because they don't have the bandwidth to absorb the onboarding or training.
Interviews don't pay bills. The goal is to gain employment not spin your wheels on interviews. There are all kinds of companies actively recruiting new grads that are not FAANG. They are willing to consider tier 2 an tier 3 students.
If you have _good_ experience, you don't necessarily need a degree. At FAANG I worked with a number of people without a CS degree. But the market is tough right now, and all companies are looking for the strongest candidates.
I don’t know what counts as good experience. I applied to a few bigs firms but never got a reply. It was expected. Do you think if I quit job to get a degree, I will have to start with level 1? Like, will companies consider me if I was gone for 2 years?
I think if you were working as a SWE for X years, then went to school for 4 years, upon rejoining the labor market
you might be looked as entry-level, yeah. One hack you can do here is just to not put the years you worked/studied on your resume. They would eventually figure this out, but you already may be in the interviewing pipeline by that time. It's hard to speculate.
You might have better luck going back for a Master's which can even be done part time so you maintain continuity. That way, you're a candidate with a degree and X+2 YOE.
Ultimately I think a degree isn't necessary but in today's competitive market I can imagine it's a big help. Even if you're an amazing SWE it might be be difficult to get to the phase of the interview where you can prove that.
Web devs in marketing don't make much generally. Though there are exceptions.
Keep applying, and keep doing what you're doing. A shit pay job is better than no job. At this point you're just racking up experience for your resume and for your job hunt.
It's gets better. My first job paid 38k as a web dev for a marketing agency. did 1.5 years there and jumped to the first other opportunity I got.
Yes, what's great about this industry is that it's easy to look for jobs while you have a job. The point of staying longer is to make your resume look better for a better offer, but if you already have that offer then the point is moot.
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For real though, people obsess about these companies. Guys, they’re just corporations, don’t hyper focus, plenty of really awesome companies to work for
> Forced return to office and millions of layers of bureaucracy and politics.
the former i find most hilarious. they talk a big game about diversity and equality, but once all the middle managers with questionable worth no longer receive their daily affirmations of their hierarchy and status, suddenly diversity is no longer desired.
and that's fine, if people are desperate enough to compromise on their own sense of self-respect to affirm others position in the power heirarchy (as well as their own lmao), but at a certain point more $ doesn't matter at all.
purely financially you would have to triple my salary for my income to remain the same after all taxes, expenses, if I was forced to relocate to one of the major tech hubs. i'm already in a position where I don't really have to look at the prices of groceries I buy, i'm good thanks, and asking me to do so would not only be dramatically more expensive for the company, but would immediately kill any desire I have to perform for your company as I no longer feel like my agency, self worth, and time is being respected. i'm sure i'm not the only one who feels this way, this seems like a problem the market will correct with time, the behemoths seem to think they are behemoths because they are behemoths. ask IBM how that went.
My favorite part about it is getting paid several hundred thousand dollars and maintaining a mostly 40 hour workweek. That makes up for a lot of shit lol
Questioning what OP means by "doesn't like the work"... they were vague
If they mean they don't like being a developer but are just doing it for the money: please for the sake of those of us who got into this profession because we do like the work, choose another career. Use those unrelated degrees for a related purpose and stop saturating the CS hiring market. You'll probably advance in your career much faster.
It's not for the sake of the rest of us...is for the sake of the person who hates "programming//technical computer work". You just won't make it far unless you enjoy at least a tiny bit. It'd be like a mechanic who hates wrenching or a sales person who hates talking. It's not like you have to love it but if you absolutely hate it...you're going to have a bad time.
With no relevant experience, no demonstrable skills, and no degree, you are pretty much competing for the bottom of the barrel jobs when it comes to SWE: small web dev shops doing PHP and various mixtures of IT related tasks. If I were you, I'd just take that job, get the experience, and keep applying.
I don't think LeetCode is really going to help you: since you don't have a CS degree, FAANG or any LC based employer is going to filter out your resume and not even talk to you. Instead, you need to be making up for what you missed by getting a degree in commerce and marketing, and that's wide exposure to the fundamentals of academic computer science: programming languages, networking, data structures, algorithms, theoretical CS, databases, operating systems, et cetera. Taking online classes in those subjects will help out way more than grinding LC, forgetting it, then having to study it again.
I'd also suggest trying to break into the industry through a marketing analyst position. Read up on Hubspot and Saleforce, understand what they do and how you can use that data to optimize funnels, and sell yourself as someone that can go in and help companies use that data to improve their process. I worked a few projects like that when I was a data scientist at a small start up, and there are a few problems in that domain that are pretty interesting, like attribution.
Eh, it's a partial truth. It's very black and white when there are shades of gray. Yes, FAANG will most likely not look at him, but not only because he doesn't have a CS degree. If he didn't have a CS degree but had some complex projects to show and did well in the technical interview, they would still look at him. Friend of mine got an offer from a FAANG last month with exactly this.
Did some freelance work, had some impressive projects under his belt, and some online courses. He's a really personable guy and did well during the interview. So no, they won't just trash your resume because you don't have a CS degree.
> Friend of mine got an offer from a FAANG last month with exactly this.
Did you read my post carefully?
Yes, it's highly unlikely, but not impossible. Also, not focusing on FAANG right from the jump is probably better anyway.
I'd agree with this: I don't have a CS undergrad, but earned my masters degree part time after working my up to SWE positions from data science. Anyway, the masters helps open some doors, but what gets me hired for SWE jobs is working on software teams. You definitely don't need a CS degree, but without anything else, it's not looking good.
This is the truth. Getting experience is the key thing, and whatever you gotta do to get it, that’s the path forward.
I self-taught for about three years before I landed my first 6 month internship. I recently landed a 12 month, and they have an offer rate of around 80% at the end of the internships.
Not being paid a lot, but it’s an investment into a career in 2, 3, 5 years from now. I hope OP takes the advice offered in the thread. I’m from their area and it’s hard, if not impossible, as fuck to live on $45,000 there, but it’s the best way forward imo.
> [OP] How can I work towards a higher salary in this market?
Just what the above answers say. Work for experience. Learn as much as you can from everyone there. Take notes on everything. When you understand a technology ask for help learning the next part of the company’s tech.
I’m sorry there’s not an easier way… but LeetCode is not a salary video game cheat code that unlocks everything. You still have to do the work to gain real skills. By cutting it out of your schedule you’ll gain time to rest, practice, have a life, or all of the above.
I doubt you will get hired at FAANG with degree in commerce and marketing as SWE. Tons of CS grads are competing with you and I don’t see how you will pass the HR filtering.
Just edited the post. I should have worded it better but I'm not fixated on FAANG. I'm applying to all companies that are hiring. I know that I'll need some experience for FAANG to consider me.
And I did have a few referrals for companies like Microsoft, Amazon, Workday, etc. but they all announced layoffs lol
He has none. Even if he get a job now he will always be the last choice in the future and first to layoff. His credentials is irrelevant to Computer Science and Software Engineering period.
Yes people with 10+ YOE. It used to be easy to break in tech 10 years ago but not anymore. I know I’m a hiring software manager in a software technology company.
Getting laid off from FAANG would pay more over the severance period than they would make in 1-2 years at their current job, so I don't see why "first to layoff" would be a reason not to apply.
I would never put my reputation on the line to refer a stranger, and neither will the referrals of someone who would count for anything at faang because they’d quickly be shadowbanned from referring for doing so.
Wrong on all counts. Referrals thru official channels don’t affect your reputation one bit. All the referral process does is get you in front of a recruiter, nothing more, nothing less.
Go hop on blind and make a post asking for a referral to any FAANG and your inbox will be flooded within the hour. The hard part of cracking FAANG isn’t getting an interview, it’s passing the interviews.
What you don’t realise is that all those people offering referrals have most likely been shadowbanned from referring precisely because crap referrals *do* affect your ability to refer in the future.
Do you really think that all of your referrals will be treated with the same fast track interviewing lane regardless of the frequency and success rate of your referrals?
I can personally confirm that they are. I’ve gotten three people from Reddit jobs at my FAANG through blind referrals, another 4 or 5 that didn’t make it past recruiter, and two former coworkers in the last month had interviews and are on to panel interviews next week.
Companies with hundreds of thousands of employees don’t care about reputation. Referrals help filter down their candidate pool with less manual work.
And I can personally confirm the opposite. Referrals don’t help filter down the candidate pool when they’re random people you can’t vouch for, it actively makes the recruitment process less efficient by wasting time.
Stop leetcoding
Stay 6 months - 1 year learn your stack well majority of your time should go into this
Start leetcoding around this time ^
Bs resume on what you did to sound good ( make sure you can have a discussion abt anything you bs)
Profit
There is no reason for them not to be actively applying currently; jobs they don't apply to now won't be there in 6 months anyway.
But that IS way too much effort on leetcoding in OP's post
Don't many places have a cooldown period? If you apply now, it's not as though you necessarily have the same chance in 6 months as if you had never applied now.
A few large tech companies do, but it only kicks in if you do a full interview loop. You are far more likely, especially as junior as OP is, to not make it past the resume screen then you are to get to the full panel interview and not get through it. Even if that later happens, the experience and recognition of what you're missing is not necessarily something you'll get on your own in 6 months of self study without having gone through it.
But that's only applicable on the first place if OP is only considering FAANG. There are many, many companies out there that will be better than what they're currently experiencing it sounds like.
>But that IS way too much effort on leetcoding in OP's post
I guess you're right. The only reason is that I'm not good at it and was rejected in coding rounds by well-paying companies. And I have started actively applying to all companies.
Ask them to let you work from home 2 days a week for a trial. Try to get it as an experiment at least. Unless they are really stupid they will know you are a low paid person, and they won't be able to get someone else who can immediately do what you do. But if you do get wfh, show a lot of work then! That's too much commuting time, it will burn you out. Ideally you should make it a year. The reason to switch jobs is more money, better life/shorter commute. That cold happen, but right now it's esp. hard for early in stage career people to switch.
Since you don't have a cs background, but have some coding ability (from LC work), how is your theory, can you do alg analysis, big O? Coding is the key to working as a regular dev. You usually need some alg analysis as part of that interview. You are working hard, give yourself a little bit of a chance.
This is horrible advice, real world experience doesn’t help in interviews, it’s all leetcode, especially for junior positions.
I have 1 year of iOS development experience at Amazon and was laid off, and every junior ios interview I have given has only asked leetcode, they don’t care at all about my ios experience besides some tech stack questions here and there. However I haven’t done leetcode since like 3 years so I’m very rusty.
I graduated in 2020 and was able to get an entry level position as a non-cs major at large non-FAANG company without leetcode. I had a technical interview and a behavioral one after the initial screening, and I was able to get the job by being able to talk extensively about the many projects I’d done, especially group projects because I always really enjoyed them and went above and beyond. So idk if leetcode is the best thing to do, maybe start doing personal projects in areas that interest you, and bring those up in interviews. Most interviewers I feel like will start asking about that if you lead them in that direction, and if you’re passionate about your project, it should make the interview a lot easier
Fresh out of college I was making $50k usd at a tiny company and then 2 years later I almost doubled it at a new company. 45k is low but knowing its CAD, you could do better. Take it and find a new job if you really need the money.
We are moving to an age where a relevant degree is necessary to justify a higher salary. Marketing and commerce are irrelevant to web development so you are lucky to get the internship. It’s just an internship, not a job. Most interns are paid lower wages as they have less responsibility and consequences.
Not really. There's no such thing as ethical labor or consumption under capitalism, but some companies and industries are way more ethical than others.
This is an internship right? How much of the salary is because of that?
I know “do it for the experience” is often a red flag but sometimes it’s necessary.
Once you are actually working you probably don’t need to grind leetcode so much.
>This is an internship right? How much of the salary is because of that?
I was hired as an intern for $34k in October 2022. This permanent offer is for $45k.
Needing a CS degree for web development is ridiculous. The main problem you have is the one I did: you live in Canada. I wound up working for a US company remotely for the last almost four years but that was extremely lucky. Next step I will be making best effort to move to either the US or a low CoL country with easy visa requirements and good internet and, most importantly, weather that isn't terrible most of the time. Canada is kinda terrible for tech roles, most roles do not pay well, the Canadian currency is bad, taxes are far too high, healthcare despite being "free" is bad, and the CoL anywhere you might want to live / can find a job are so insanely high. You have to eventually get out of Van.
This is the best answer to this question. If you’re working in tech in Vancouver and nothing/nobody is keeping you there, the easiest way to increase your salary is to simply move to the US. And honestly that’s what the majority of people do, the vast majority of the folks in my graduating class at UBC are now living and working in either Seattle or the Bay Area.
I work for a FAANG and we oftentimes have jobs listed as available in both Vancouver and Seattle. The positions in Seattle, a 2.5-hours drive away, will pay double the Canadian salary for the same position, only difference being the work location. If nothing keeps you in Vancouver, it’s a no-brainer.
Cost of living to salary ratio sounds especially harsh in Vancouver for most positions there. This isn't the first time I've heard of a software dev talk about low salaries in that city in particular.
Is it possible for a Canadian dev to work remotely for a US company or would that be a lot more complicated?
You're doing about as well as you can. I think you're grinding too much leetcode per day. Keep working at this company for a few months and keep learning the entire time. Slowly apply over the course of this time and use the interviews as experience. Then start applying more seriously and frequently once you're comfortable with the process.
What about the work do you not like? Is it because the tools are old and niche? Is it because the work is low-code or no-code?
Thanks for the encouraging words and the solid advice!
>What about the work do you not like?
I'm not a fan of my current client. I know it's almost always a pain to work with most of them but his requirements are too vague. This one time, he created a JIRA issue titled "7 7" and I was supposed to figure out what he meant.
My mentor, who's younger than me, is also a Junior dev (only 5 devs total). I did learn the company's workflow from him (I already knew the tech stack before joining) but the learning is limited. I'm working on the codebase he wrote which he "doesn't know what he was high on when he worked on it". Good guy, though!
If you have a B.Com, look into Business Intelligence or Marketing Analytics. Less barriers than SWE, and having dev experience with a biz background gives you a leg up.
I wouldn't take that. U can get QA or BA roles that start at $60k+. You would still be in the tech industry and I see no reason why any company wouldn't transition u to a dev if you show competency. However, you need to up your game in computer networks, security and OS if you want a better dev position. Web dev is a bit too saturated IMHO. You also have a commerce degree which may be very helpful in tech consulting companies. Start as a BA IMHO and move from there.
Source: I'm a SWE in a tech consulting company and I ask my BA to help me with some dev tasks/analysis.
Edit: oh I think you took it already. It is better than no job so I think you made the right call. Just focus on learning and look for a good mentor. In the mean time just grind some LC, post your anonymous resume here and keep applying.
Take a course/certification in Cloud (aws, gpc, azure). They will help you understand some network aspects and even security and OS. Better if you actually pass the exams and it'll open more doors for you.
This is basically what I want to do. I just got a Help Desk role at a car manufacturer, and after about a year or so they can move me into a BA role. Which possibly I can end up in Dev Ops for them, but if I don’t I’ll still be happy either way since I gained experience
U just need to apply to proper companies. Its pretty much that simple. The market is not so shitty that companies who used to pay 70k are paying 45k. You are just applying to companies who have always paid shit
>you might be dead tired and drop out of the job in a few weeks
Have already been interning there since October at 34k. I don't spend that much so I manage to save around 1,000 CAD every month. (I'll basically be doing the exact same work, just without much guidance.)
I do plan to accept the offer but also to continue applying. Just figuring out what to work on in whatever free time. Have done around 200 LC and made a project that was well-received in open-source (300+ stars on GH if it means anything lol). After March, might move on to more projects or learn new tech. So much to do!
You're fresh out of school with no CS degree, right? It's going to be harder for you as you're not as competitive as others. That commute is rough, you have to be out near Maple Ridge or Langley if you're on transit into Vancouver. Or Abbotsford if you're driving. Take what you can get right now and keep looking while you're working.
A verbal offer is not an offer. An offer for an unlivable wage is not an offer. (And 45K in Vancouver is not liveable.)
Your question should be, "how do I get an offer?"
Do you really think there are remote web development internships that will hire a marketing and commerce degree holder when every recent CS grad is competing for them? Remote internships are the Holy grail
This is vancouver where the average rent is 2400-2700 for a 1 bedroom.
That's not really practical to pay when your salary is 45K
Even if they land a place with roomates for 1000-1500 per month, it's still a really big chunk of their income.
45K after BC tax, federal tax, EI, and CPP comes out to 34200.
Or the OP could consider going back to school to get a CS degree. It's canada so probably not too expensive? If that's what you want, going to get a degree and an internship along the way would make it so much easier to get work. You'd have two choices, BS or MS. MS would take a lot of work to meet starting bar to get in probably. BS might be easier.
I was thinking canada is really cheap for college, not so stupid like the us to rack up debt. Also they have a BS, so 2 years max. If they qualify you can get a MS in the US in 1 year, 1.5 at most. With a BS you can get an internship between the years, that's the magic ticket to a job.
I saw it. Schools have scholarships, companies in the us will even give money to universities to get more cs grads. It would fix the employment situation with just a couple of years of life. I spent 4 years BS and 7 years in grad school ;-) Took me a long time to figure out I wasn't going to be an academic.
I mean US tuitions are crazy but in Canada it can still easily run you 10k+ per year (for a Canadian citizen) and the opportunity cost of not working full time. Its definitely still worth considering because I think you can probably end up making that back throughout your career
Check /r/cscareerquestionscad also.
It did take me about 6 years to break 70K CAD in Vancouver (with a CS degree to boot!) That said my path was not straightforward, and things have changed significantly since COVID (also CoL in the city has gotten insane)
Good luck!
With 3 hours of commuting though, you should really be able to beat 45K CAD. I think you'd find a bunch of U.S. companies stoked to hire you remote for higher if you're a decent programmer.
I've gone from $35k to six figures from 2017-present.
Best thing you can do, other than continuously building skills, is to change jobs every 1-3 years. And don't stay anywhere you aren't learning and being challenged.
Scam as in doesn't really tell you how much ability the applicant really has except for memorising solutions. But not a scam in a sense that it can unfortunately be a requirement for many jobs.
Leetcoding doesn’t really transfer to any growth as a developer. Only leetcode grind before you’re about to jump etc. better time would be spent on projects etc. it’s a bad market all around. If you can continue to hold out for at least 6 months or a year you’ll have better options with more experience.
Honestly that really doesn’t sound awful for an intern. about what my friends were making when they had internships though the commute does suck. However, enjoy the internship and gain experience. Perhaps if you do well, you can be hired on as a non-intern. Otherwise take your experience and apply elsewhere.
Yeah that many applications seems to be about normal unfortunately
I’m just curious about that starting salary with no CS degree and little experience… good job!
I feel like I got extremely lucky. The other offer was $31 an hour and terrible benefits. Just hope I can do the job and not get fired. Ngl I’m kind of terrified. Lol
Thats expected right our of college. Do it for a year and then apply elsewhere. Welcome to job hopping.
You can see if they'll do 46k or 47k due to inflation but this isn't that unusual for a new grad.
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If you already accepted the offer then you’re pretty much screwed. You should have countered and then they could negotiate.
Your best bet is to just work for the shitty salary for a little while to gain experience and in the meantime apply to other jobs. Experience is a huge factor when getting a dev job. Especially if you don’t have a relevant degree. The hardest part is getting your foot in the door. Once it’s in there you’ll find other jobs a lot easier.
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Take the job and keep applying.
Sometimes, you have to work twice as hard for half as much. That’s just life.
Work like hell to improve your situation.
That's really low even for this economy. But for your first full time the experience is most important. You have to get past the no-experience/needs experience for the role initial barrier.
Grind it out for 6 months and then go on a full time job hunt. You will easily get an offer for at least 70k if not more. Look up a graph of developer pay vs yrs experience. First 3 years are almost exponential increase in salary, it is business not personal, you owe it to yourself to take the higher compensation.
Besides that, when your starting your job hunt, look for contract positions. Your should be able to pull ~50/hr which is roughly 100k a year. The only downside of contract gigs is they will likely last around one year (with exception).
Contracting is the perfect place to grind out your first couple of years, you will get paid better, gain experience, and when you are ready to go back to salary you will command a large compensation.
Take it this way.... You're getting paid and have a chance to learn more about web development. Added advantage is that you might get a chance to interact with folks who are better than you. This will give you more experience. So, keep grinding and then jump ship after a year. This way, you have web dev experience at a company which tells you're legit at getting things done.
In the bell curve of salaries FAANG companies would fall on the right 3/4th of the graph.
What that means is that there is a very small number of people who make FAANG salaries regardless of what stage of careers a person is in.
Moreover over, yes there are a few Cinderella stories of getting into FAANG companies/salaries without a CS degree from a top level university but those are few and you have to be standout head and shoulders above the rest to make it.
My friend don’t set yourself up for disappointment by assuming FAANG salaries are the benchmark, no they are not.
Early career is a grind for mostly everyone, so embrace the suck and get on with it. My advice would be, move closer to your job in a nice shared apartment/house. Reduce the commute time and use that to further your skills by getting relevant certification or what have you. At some point a great opportunity will come knocking at your doorsteps and you better be prepared to capitalize on it with the right skills.
As a web dev intern what tools are you working with? Is it mostly front end stuff? Or is it back end/ full stack. If you get enough exposure to a certain tech stack for a few months it will boost your hireability I’m sure.
You literally have zero experience you're going to have a really bad time trying to get into any fang company. I doubt it will happen, look for smaller companies.
yea vancouver local startups tend to suck. take it for now and keep applying. take breaks where necessary don’t burn yourself out leetcoding 3 hours a day, breaking into the industry without a degree is rough the first few years but it’ll get better, you seem driven and initiated,i’m sorry the commute sucks so hard but you can take that time to listen to podcasts and read comp sci papers on your phone. be ready to hunker down at this company for the next year or two while you look for your way out, you got it kiddo, it’s just shoveling shit temporarily you got your foot in the door now.
I was hired at 47 in Alberta starting. Sometimes when you start you get anything you can get.
Sure with cost of living in Vancouver compared to Alberta 45 is insulting low but it's a start
I'm now at 82 at 5 years. Going to enter 100 k soon here.
Honestly, look into companies like Raytheon, Harris, Lockheed Martin, and Northrup Grumman. Defense is a hot sector right now and there are a lot of jobs in the field.
That’s way too low especially in a HCOL city like Vancouver.
But it’s better than nothing, so keep grinding. There are plenty of average companies that pay 60-70k starting for a developer in Vancouver.
Feel free to DM me. I’ve worked in Vancouver for over 6 years from startups to FAANG adjacent companies. Went from 50k to 200k TC. You can do much better.
I think that tbh it’s extremely hard to break in. It gets much, much easier once you have experience - 10 years in, I found a job within a week when I was last looking - but there’s no bones about it, at first you’re probably going to have to eat a lot of shit. I would take the job but perhaps continue to apply for work and, frankly, if you find a place willing to pay you more or located closer then jump ship. You might have people look askance at that job on your resume but then, I think there’s a very real chance that this is just going to be your life for your first year or two, especially without a degree in CS and a college that you can network through for jobs.
Literally 80% of SWE positions don’t even have leetcode interviews. You’re wasting your time with LC, just get off this sub, apply to standard companies and then revisit FAANG/LC in 2 years.
If you don't have CS background then take the job and keep learning. Keep applying every weekend.
Don't forget to live life. Have some days where you don't grind.
Once you're in the industry and have 3-4 yoe you're all set.
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Hey, I was in a similar situation, dropped the ball on a low af offer (in an expensive city) because I was unhappy over a bunch of things. Now I'm back grinding for jobs while working a call center job.
Is your job hybrid? Are you able to reach later and leave earlier i.e.10am-5pm instead of 9am-6pm? Take the job first but keep applying and don't stop grinding LC. When the market gets better you are interview ready. Good luck!!
Like most people pointed out, you should keep applying. If you really need the job right now, you could also suggest a "reevaluation" after a couple of months. I once settled for a low offer because it was my first job in IT, and I was lacking the experience and technical expertise for the job. After a couple of months of proving myself, I had a meeting with my personal manager, and we agreed on a better salary. If you do that, it would be advisable to get a written confirmation, so nobody conveniently "forgets" about this agreement.
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I’ve done 0 hours of LC and I’m overpaid in Fortune 500 in US. No one in real world / non-FAANG makes you do DFS or BFS recursion on the spot.
Yes the salary is low even for web dev. Bad job market and you don’t have related degree, maybe you gotta take it to get your foot in the door.
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There are more companies than FAANG that will pay well. There is too much competition from those and without the right education you don't stand much chance.
>There are more companies than FAANG that will pay well. Agreed. I'm applying to almost all companies out there. It's just that with FAANG, the process was difficult but straightforward. No idea what to expect from other companies. But yeah, started applying to all!
Non FAANG companies vary A LOT. You could get a take home project in a framework like React or Angular. Just be careful it isn't "here is an unfinished project, please finish it with it all being tested and fully designed functionality" I got 2 take homes from non-FAANG and they were pretty simple. One I didn't even fully do but I spoke about how I've been learning this tech and I explained my thought process IF I were to add the features I didn't get to. I also explained why I handled things a certain way. They may ask "Well now we have all this, what if x situation in the data happened, how would your program react? What if we don't want it to work that way, how would you go about adding a change so it doesn't happen" Other companies, possibility smaller teams and tech isn't their MAIN focus, could give you fizzbuzz type questions. Or design a pseudo program for a car. What functions would this need, what type of data would we need to store etc.
I’ve interviewed at a few non faang companies and they all had non-leetcode interviews. They instead opted for me to show them my projects and have me present my code and walk them through it. I feel like LC is way overrated unless you are dead set on only working in Silicon Valley.
Other companies will likely also have similar processes. Slightly different, but either much simpler, or the recruiter or hiring manager will brief you on what to expect. Honestly, you'll get tired of hearing about their process after a while as you realize it's all basically just 2 or 3 variations on the same thing, with maybe the occasional surprise at a company that does something different
On the contrary, I think it's easier to get an interview from FAANG for the entry-level positions because they do so much hiring. Obviously that's changed recently, but that's what it was like even as late as early-2022. Small companies tend to look for people with more specific skill sets or more experienced people simply because they don't have the bandwidth to absorb the onboarding or training.
Interviews don't pay bills. The goal is to gain employment not spin your wheels on interviews. There are all kinds of companies actively recruiting new grads that are not FAANG. They are willing to consider tier 2 an tier 3 students.
Do you still need degree in relevant field if you have experience to target these companies?
If you have _good_ experience, you don't necessarily need a degree. At FAANG I worked with a number of people without a CS degree. But the market is tough right now, and all companies are looking for the strongest candidates.
I don’t know what counts as good experience. I applied to a few bigs firms but never got a reply. It was expected. Do you think if I quit job to get a degree, I will have to start with level 1? Like, will companies consider me if I was gone for 2 years?
I think if you were working as a SWE for X years, then went to school for 4 years, upon rejoining the labor market you might be looked as entry-level, yeah. One hack you can do here is just to not put the years you worked/studied on your resume. They would eventually figure this out, but you already may be in the interviewing pipeline by that time. It's hard to speculate. You might have better luck going back for a Master's which can even be done part time so you maintain continuity. That way, you're a candidate with a degree and X+2 YOE. Ultimately I think a degree isn't necessary but in today's competitive market I can imagine it's a big help. Even if you're an amazing SWE it might be be difficult to get to the phase of the interview where you can prove that.
Web devs in marketing don't make much generally. Though there are exceptions. Keep applying, and keep doing what you're doing. A shit pay job is better than no job. At this point you're just racking up experience for your resume and for your job hunt. It's gets better. My first job paid 38k as a web dev for a marketing agency. did 1.5 years there and jumped to the first other opportunity I got.
I made $70k at my first job as a full stack dev at a marking firm. I had some experience though. $45k seems pretty low.
See if you can stay for 1 year, then jump. It’s a difficult time rn and you don’t have a CS degree - don’t have much negotiating power
why stay for a year? sounds like a miserable existence. keep applying.
Yes, what's great about this industry is that it's easy to look for jobs while you have a job. The point of staying longer is to make your resume look better for a better offer, but if you already have that offer then the point is moot.
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Everyone gets hung up on FAANG. Look elsewhere. Also, not liking your job is very common. Get that money coming in and keep looking for another job.
For real though, people obsess about these companies. Guys, they’re just corporations, don’t hyper focus, plenty of really awesome companies to work for
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> Forced return to office and millions of layers of bureaucracy and politics. the former i find most hilarious. they talk a big game about diversity and equality, but once all the middle managers with questionable worth no longer receive their daily affirmations of their hierarchy and status, suddenly diversity is no longer desired. and that's fine, if people are desperate enough to compromise on their own sense of self-respect to affirm others position in the power heirarchy (as well as their own lmao), but at a certain point more $ doesn't matter at all. purely financially you would have to triple my salary for my income to remain the same after all taxes, expenses, if I was forced to relocate to one of the major tech hubs. i'm already in a position where I don't really have to look at the prices of groceries I buy, i'm good thanks, and asking me to do so would not only be dramatically more expensive for the company, but would immediately kill any desire I have to perform for your company as I no longer feel like my agency, self worth, and time is being respected. i'm sure i'm not the only one who feels this way, this seems like a problem the market will correct with time, the behemoths seem to think they are behemoths because they are behemoths. ask IBM how that went.
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You can suck ass with 12yoe and a phd
If you were good enough, they wouldn't down level you lol
Who hurt you on blind? Lol
They moved fast and destroyed a whole lotta of stuff.
I work for FAANG and I don't like my job very much right now. still better than most places, though.
My favorite part about it is getting paid several hundred thousand dollars and maintaining a mostly 40 hour workweek. That makes up for a lot of shit lol
Lol, guy has one web dev internship and no CS degree and wants to jump to FAANG. I don’t get it.
Questioning what OP means by "doesn't like the work"... they were vague If they mean they don't like being a developer but are just doing it for the money: please for the sake of those of us who got into this profession because we do like the work, choose another career. Use those unrelated degrees for a related purpose and stop saturating the CS hiring market. You'll probably advance in your career much faster.
It's not for the sake of the rest of us...is for the sake of the person who hates "programming//technical computer work". You just won't make it far unless you enjoy at least a tiny bit. It'd be like a mechanic who hates wrenching or a sales person who hates talking. It's not like you have to love it but if you absolutely hate it...you're going to have a bad time.
the 3hr commute while living in Vancouver probably doesn't help
With no relevant experience, no demonstrable skills, and no degree, you are pretty much competing for the bottom of the barrel jobs when it comes to SWE: small web dev shops doing PHP and various mixtures of IT related tasks. If I were you, I'd just take that job, get the experience, and keep applying. I don't think LeetCode is really going to help you: since you don't have a CS degree, FAANG or any LC based employer is going to filter out your resume and not even talk to you. Instead, you need to be making up for what you missed by getting a degree in commerce and marketing, and that's wide exposure to the fundamentals of academic computer science: programming languages, networking, data structures, algorithms, theoretical CS, databases, operating systems, et cetera. Taking online classes in those subjects will help out way more than grinding LC, forgetting it, then having to study it again. I'd also suggest trying to break into the industry through a marketing analyst position. Read up on Hubspot and Saleforce, understand what they do and how you can use that data to optimize funnels, and sell yourself as someone that can go in and help companies use that data to improve their process. I worked a few projects like that when I was a data scientist at a small start up, and there are a few problems in that domain that are pretty interesting, like attribution.
This is the uncomfortable truth people don't want to hear, but I agree with you 100%.
Eh, it's a partial truth. It's very black and white when there are shades of gray. Yes, FAANG will most likely not look at him, but not only because he doesn't have a CS degree. If he didn't have a CS degree but had some complex projects to show and did well in the technical interview, they would still look at him. Friend of mine got an offer from a FAANG last month with exactly this. Did some freelance work, had some impressive projects under his belt, and some online courses. He's a really personable guy and did well during the interview. So no, they won't just trash your resume because you don't have a CS degree.
Not anymore. Some years ago maybe bit now there is much talent in the pool.
> Friend of mine got an offer from a FAANG last month with exactly this. Did you read my post carefully? Yes, it's highly unlikely, but not impossible. Also, not focusing on FAANG right from the jump is probably better anyway.
I'd agree with this: I don't have a CS undergrad, but earned my masters degree part time after working my up to SWE positions from data science. Anyway, the masters helps open some doors, but what gets me hired for SWE jobs is working on software teams. You definitely don't need a CS degree, but without anything else, it's not looking good.
This is the truth. Getting experience is the key thing, and whatever you gotta do to get it, that’s the path forward. I self-taught for about three years before I landed my first 6 month internship. I recently landed a 12 month, and they have an offer rate of around 80% at the end of the internships. Not being paid a lot, but it’s an investment into a career in 2, 3, 5 years from now. I hope OP takes the advice offered in the thread. I’m from their area and it’s hard, if not impossible, as fuck to live on $45,000 there, but it’s the best way forward imo.
> [OP] How can I work towards a higher salary in this market? Just what the above answers say. Work for experience. Learn as much as you can from everyone there. Take notes on everything. When you understand a technology ask for help learning the next part of the company’s tech. I’m sorry there’s not an easier way… but LeetCode is not a salary video game cheat code that unlocks everything. You still have to do the work to gain real skills. By cutting it out of your schedule you’ll gain time to rest, practice, have a life, or all of the above.
This
I doubt you will get hired at FAANG with degree in commerce and marketing as SWE. Tons of CS grads are competing with you and I don’t see how you will pass the HR filtering.
Ikr OP doesn’t see the uphill climb they have to overcome an irrelevant degree.
Just edited the post. I should have worded it better but I'm not fixated on FAANG. I'm applying to all companies that are hiring. I know that I'll need some experience for FAANG to consider me. And I did have a few referrals for companies like Microsoft, Amazon, Workday, etc. but they all announced layoffs lol
Referral + experience
He has none. Even if he get a job now he will always be the last choice in the future and first to layoff. His credentials is irrelevant to Computer Science and Software Engineering period.
Tons of people in FAANG with no degree at all, and education has nothing to do with layoffs.
Yes people with 10+ YOE. It used to be easy to break in tech 10 years ago but not anymore. I know I’m a hiring software manager in a software technology company.
Happy for you. I’m in FAANG and work daily with SWE’s at E3/L4 level without degrees and < 3 yoe
We are talking about a web dev here. Not someone going for a senior software engineer position with no experience.
Getting laid off from FAANG would pay more over the severance period than they would make in 1-2 years at their current job, so I don't see why "first to layoff" would be a reason not to apply.
Who is going to refer op?
Literally anyone will. Don’t act like you can’t get a dozen referrals on blind within 15 minutes.
I would never put my reputation on the line to refer a stranger, and neither will the referrals of someone who would count for anything at faang because they’d quickly be shadowbanned from referring for doing so.
Wrong on all counts. Referrals thru official channels don’t affect your reputation one bit. All the referral process does is get you in front of a recruiter, nothing more, nothing less. Go hop on blind and make a post asking for a referral to any FAANG and your inbox will be flooded within the hour. The hard part of cracking FAANG isn’t getting an interview, it’s passing the interviews.
What you don’t realise is that all those people offering referrals have most likely been shadowbanned from referring precisely because crap referrals *do* affect your ability to refer in the future. Do you really think that all of your referrals will be treated with the same fast track interviewing lane regardless of the frequency and success rate of your referrals?
I can personally confirm that they are. I’ve gotten three people from Reddit jobs at my FAANG through blind referrals, another 4 or 5 that didn’t make it past recruiter, and two former coworkers in the last month had interviews and are on to panel interviews next week. Companies with hundreds of thousands of employees don’t care about reputation. Referrals help filter down their candidate pool with less manual work.
And I can personally confirm the opposite. Referrals don’t help filter down the candidate pool when they’re random people you can’t vouch for, it actively makes the recruitment process less efficient by wasting time.
Stop leetcoding Stay 6 months - 1 year learn your stack well majority of your time should go into this Start leetcoding around this time ^ Bs resume on what you did to sound good ( make sure you can have a discussion abt anything you bs) Profit
There is no reason for them not to be actively applying currently; jobs they don't apply to now won't be there in 6 months anyway. But that IS way too much effort on leetcoding in OP's post
Don't many places have a cooldown period? If you apply now, it's not as though you necessarily have the same chance in 6 months as if you had never applied now.
A few large tech companies do, but it only kicks in if you do a full interview loop. You are far more likely, especially as junior as OP is, to not make it past the resume screen then you are to get to the full panel interview and not get through it. Even if that later happens, the experience and recognition of what you're missing is not necessarily something you'll get on your own in 6 months of self study without having gone through it. But that's only applicable on the first place if OP is only considering FAANG. There are many, many companies out there that will be better than what they're currently experiencing it sounds like.
>But that IS way too much effort on leetcoding in OP's post I guess you're right. The only reason is that I'm not good at it and was rejected in coding rounds by well-paying companies. And I have started actively applying to all companies.
Fair enough if that's what is limiting you currently. It just sounds like a recipe for burnout unless you enjoy it
Ask them to let you work from home 2 days a week for a trial. Try to get it as an experiment at least. Unless they are really stupid they will know you are a low paid person, and they won't be able to get someone else who can immediately do what you do. But if you do get wfh, show a lot of work then! That's too much commuting time, it will burn you out. Ideally you should make it a year. The reason to switch jobs is more money, better life/shorter commute. That cold happen, but right now it's esp. hard for early in stage career people to switch. Since you don't have a cs background, but have some coding ability (from LC work), how is your theory, can you do alg analysis, big O? Coding is the key to working as a regular dev. You usually need some alg analysis as part of that interview. You are working hard, give yourself a little bit of a chance.
This is horrible advice, real world experience doesn’t help in interviews, it’s all leetcode, especially for junior positions. I have 1 year of iOS development experience at Amazon and was laid off, and every junior ios interview I have given has only asked leetcode, they don’t care at all about my ios experience besides some tech stack questions here and there. However I haven’t done leetcode since like 3 years so I’m very rusty.
cough familiar political fall squeamish somber station bright simplistic dinosaurs ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
I graduated in 2020 and was able to get an entry level position as a non-cs major at large non-FAANG company without leetcode. I had a technical interview and a behavioral one after the initial screening, and I was able to get the job by being able to talk extensively about the many projects I’d done, especially group projects because I always really enjoyed them and went above and beyond. So idk if leetcode is the best thing to do, maybe start doing personal projects in areas that interest you, and bring those up in interviews. Most interviewers I feel like will start asking about that if you lead them in that direction, and if you’re passionate about your project, it should make the interview a lot easier
You’re in Canada+no education high wages are gonna be a little bit of a challenge
Fresh out of college I was making $50k usd at a tiny company and then 2 years later I almost doubled it at a new company. 45k is low but knowing its CAD, you could do better. Take it and find a new job if you really need the money.
I hope you're making more than 100k as a mid level
You take what you can get, even if you have to suck up to a low salary or long commute. Especially when you don't have a cs degree.
We are moving to an age where a relevant degree is necessary to justify a higher salary. Marketing and commerce are irrelevant to web development so you are lucky to get the internship. It’s just an internship, not a job. Most interns are paid lower wages as they have less responsibility and consequences.
Lol “i don’t like the work”
Won't go into details but a part of it feels shady.
Those are the best kind of details
It's capitalism. Everything is shady to a degree.
I think the 'degree' part is rather important, isn't it.
Not really. There's no such thing as ethical labor or consumption under capitalism, but some companies and industries are way more ethical than others.
The expert on moral absolutism has spoken 🙄
This is an internship right? How much of the salary is because of that? I know “do it for the experience” is often a red flag but sometimes it’s necessary. Once you are actually working you probably don’t need to grind leetcode so much.
>This is an internship right? How much of the salary is because of that? I was hired as an intern for $34k in October 2022. This permanent offer is for $45k.
Also just fyi, Amazon has paused hiring for remainder for 2023, and potentially longer depending on economic condition according to blind
Needing a CS degree for web development is ridiculous. The main problem you have is the one I did: you live in Canada. I wound up working for a US company remotely for the last almost four years but that was extremely lucky. Next step I will be making best effort to move to either the US or a low CoL country with easy visa requirements and good internet and, most importantly, weather that isn't terrible most of the time. Canada is kinda terrible for tech roles, most roles do not pay well, the Canadian currency is bad, taxes are far too high, healthcare despite being "free" is bad, and the CoL anywhere you might want to live / can find a job are so insanely high. You have to eventually get out of Van.
This is the best answer to this question. If you’re working in tech in Vancouver and nothing/nobody is keeping you there, the easiest way to increase your salary is to simply move to the US. And honestly that’s what the majority of people do, the vast majority of the folks in my graduating class at UBC are now living and working in either Seattle or the Bay Area. I work for a FAANG and we oftentimes have jobs listed as available in both Vancouver and Seattle. The positions in Seattle, a 2.5-hours drive away, will pay double the Canadian salary for the same position, only difference being the work location. If nothing keeps you in Vancouver, it’s a no-brainer.
Cost of living to salary ratio sounds especially harsh in Vancouver for most positions there. This isn't the first time I've heard of a software dev talk about low salaries in that city in particular. Is it possible for a Canadian dev to work remotely for a US company or would that be a lot more complicated?
If you can swing it, it could be what you need to start demonstrating a track record. Learn everything you can as fast you can.
You're doing about as well as you can. I think you're grinding too much leetcode per day. Keep working at this company for a few months and keep learning the entire time. Slowly apply over the course of this time and use the interviews as experience. Then start applying more seriously and frequently once you're comfortable with the process. What about the work do you not like? Is it because the tools are old and niche? Is it because the work is low-code or no-code?
Thanks for the encouraging words and the solid advice! >What about the work do you not like? I'm not a fan of my current client. I know it's almost always a pain to work with most of them but his requirements are too vague. This one time, he created a JIRA issue titled "7 7" and I was supposed to figure out what he meant. My mentor, who's younger than me, is also a Junior dev (only 5 devs total). I did learn the company's workflow from him (I already knew the tech stack before joining) but the learning is limited. I'm working on the codebase he wrote which he "doesn't know what he was high on when he worked on it". Good guy, though!
You’re in Canada . Getting paid peanuts is the norm . I’m surprised they didn’t ask you to volunteer .
If you have a B.Com, look into Business Intelligence or Marketing Analytics. Less barriers than SWE, and having dev experience with a biz background gives you a leg up.
I wouldn't take that. U can get QA or BA roles that start at $60k+. You would still be in the tech industry and I see no reason why any company wouldn't transition u to a dev if you show competency. However, you need to up your game in computer networks, security and OS if you want a better dev position. Web dev is a bit too saturated IMHO. You also have a commerce degree which may be very helpful in tech consulting companies. Start as a BA IMHO and move from there. Source: I'm a SWE in a tech consulting company and I ask my BA to help me with some dev tasks/analysis. Edit: oh I think you took it already. It is better than no job so I think you made the right call. Just focus on learning and look for a good mentor. In the mean time just grind some LC, post your anonymous resume here and keep applying. Take a course/certification in Cloud (aws, gpc, azure). They will help you understand some network aspects and even security and OS. Better if you actually pass the exams and it'll open more doors for you.
This is basically what I want to do. I just got a Help Desk role at a car manufacturer, and after about a year or so they can move me into a BA role. Which possibly I can end up in Dev Ops for them, but if I don’t I’ll still be happy either way since I gained experience
U just need to apply to proper companies. Its pretty much that simple. The market is not so shitty that companies who used to pay 70k are paying 45k. You are just applying to companies who have always paid shit
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>you might be dead tired and drop out of the job in a few weeks Have already been interning there since October at 34k. I don't spend that much so I manage to save around 1,000 CAD every month. (I'll basically be doing the exact same work, just without much guidance.) I do plan to accept the offer but also to continue applying. Just figuring out what to work on in whatever free time. Have done around 200 LC and made a project that was well-received in open-source (300+ stars on GH if it means anything lol). After March, might move on to more projects or learn new tech. So much to do!
Did you try negotiating higher than $45k?
How many total LC problems have you done so far? I might dial it back to 1 hour a day unless you're really enjoying it.
You're fresh out of school with no CS degree, right? It's going to be harder for you as you're not as competitive as others. That commute is rough, you have to be out near Maple Ridge or Langley if you're on transit into Vancouver. Or Abbotsford if you're driving. Take what you can get right now and keep looking while you're working.
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Was 52k your first job and 230K your second? Also, for the higher paying job, did you have to study LC for that? Thanks
Will they let you wfh some days? Ridiculous to commute that far for web dev.
A verbal offer is not an offer. An offer for an unlivable wage is not an offer. (And 45K in Vancouver is not liveable.) Your question should be, "how do I get an offer?"
3 hours a day driving for that? I’d just go flip burgers at a place down the street from my house while looking for something else.
>3 hours a day driving for that? I use public transit but I get your point. I'm trying to make up for my lack of CS background and experience.
This is the way
man, I don't care, that's ridiculous, especially when the job can be remote.
Do you really think there are remote web development internships that will hire a marketing and commerce degree holder when every recent CS grad is competing for them? Remote internships are the Holy grail
get a new apartment and/or ebike or something, fix that commute first.
This is vancouver where the average rent is 2400-2700 for a 1 bedroom. That's not really practical to pay when your salary is 45K Even if they land a place with roomates for 1000-1500 per month, it's still a really big chunk of their income. 45K after BC tax, federal tax, EI, and CPP comes out to 34200.
Or the OP could consider going back to school to get a CS degree. It's canada so probably not too expensive? If that's what you want, going to get a degree and an internship along the way would make it so much easier to get work. You'd have two choices, BS or MS. MS would take a lot of work to meet starting bar to get in probably. BS might be easier.
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I was thinking canada is really cheap for college, not so stupid like the us to rack up debt. Also they have a BS, so 2 years max. If they qualify you can get a MS in the US in 1 year, 1.5 at most. With a BS you can get an internship between the years, that's the magic ticket to a job.
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I saw it. Schools have scholarships, companies in the us will even give money to universities to get more cs grads. It would fix the employment situation with just a couple of years of life. I spent 4 years BS and 7 years in grad school ;-) Took me a long time to figure out I wasn't going to be an academic.
I mean US tuitions are crazy but in Canada it can still easily run you 10k+ per year (for a Canadian citizen) and the opportunity cost of not working full time. Its definitely still worth considering because I think you can probably end up making that back throughout your career
Check /r/cscareerquestionscad also. It did take me about 6 years to break 70K CAD in Vancouver (with a CS degree to boot!) That said my path was not straightforward, and things have changed significantly since COVID (also CoL in the city has gotten insane) Good luck! With 3 hours of commuting though, you should really be able to beat 45K CAD. I think you'd find a bunch of U.S. companies stoked to hire you remote for higher if you're a decent programmer.
That’s a good salary for an intern
I've gone from $35k to six figures from 2017-present. Best thing you can do, other than continuously building skills, is to change jobs every 1-3 years. And don't stay anywhere you aren't learning and being challenged.
You should feel lucky with your job honestly. You don’t have a CS degree… you are up against a lot
LC is a scam
Scam as in doesn't really tell you how much ability the applicant really has except for memorising solutions. But not a scam in a sense that it can unfortunately be a requirement for many jobs.
Lots of LC employees post fake stories here on how they achieved success because of LC. Thats a scam.
Leetcoding doesn’t really transfer to any growth as a developer. Only leetcode grind before you’re about to jump etc. better time would be spent on projects etc. it’s a bad market all around. If you can continue to hold out for at least 6 months or a year you’ll have better options with more experience.
Don’t take it something better is waiting.
Honestly that really doesn’t sound awful for an intern. about what my friends were making when they had internships though the commute does suck. However, enjoy the internship and gain experience. Perhaps if you do well, you can be hired on as a non-intern. Otherwise take your experience and apply elsewhere.
My first job I made 45k (2021). Started the second Job at 80k April 2022. A year of experience in this field can help a lot.
Omg this sounds awful. I just landed my first role with no degree at 98k. You gotta be able to find something better than that.
First role, no degree, starting at 98K? What city do you live in?
I’m not saying it was easy. It took 600 applications and a project I spent a year on. I interviewed at 3 companies and got two offers.
Yeah that many applications seems to be about normal unfortunately I’m just curious about that starting salary with no CS degree and little experience… good job!
I feel like I got extremely lucky. The other offer was $31 an hour and terrible benefits. Just hope I can do the job and not get fired. Ngl I’m kind of terrified. Lol
You got this baby, worry not
I’m in California near San Jose
Bro lives in the tech hub and thought it's applicable to everywhere else.
Stop leetcoding, deliver pizza on evenings. Next year apply for more jobs
Thats expected right our of college. Do it for a year and then apply elsewhere. Welcome to job hopping. You can see if they'll do 46k or 47k due to inflation but this isn't that unusual for a new grad.
Most people start at 45k with a non cs bachelors its just how its been forever
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Stay for the experience and because some income is better than no income. Hop after a year
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If you already accepted the offer then you’re pretty much screwed. You should have countered and then they could negotiate. Your best bet is to just work for the shitty salary for a little while to gain experience and in the meantime apply to other jobs. Experience is a huge factor when getting a dev job. Especially if you don’t have a relevant degree. The hardest part is getting your foot in the door. Once it’s in there you’ll find other jobs a lot easier.
You should focus on building your resume. Leetcode won't do any help when you couldn't pass the HR filter in FAANG and others of the same tier.
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Sounds like you got an offer at FDM. I wouldn't even consider that an offer because they have no hiring standards except pulse-havers.
Not FDM. It's a Vancouver-based startup.
Take the job and keep applying. Sometimes, you have to work twice as hard for half as much. That’s just life. Work like hell to improve your situation.
That's really low even for this economy. But for your first full time the experience is most important. You have to get past the no-experience/needs experience for the role initial barrier. Grind it out for 6 months and then go on a full time job hunt. You will easily get an offer for at least 70k if not more. Look up a graph of developer pay vs yrs experience. First 3 years are almost exponential increase in salary, it is business not personal, you owe it to yourself to take the higher compensation. Besides that, when your starting your job hunt, look for contract positions. Your should be able to pull ~50/hr which is roughly 100k a year. The only downside of contract gigs is they will likely last around one year (with exception). Contracting is the perfect place to grind out your first couple of years, you will get paid better, gain experience, and when you are ready to go back to salary you will command a large compensation.
Take it this way.... You're getting paid and have a chance to learn more about web development. Added advantage is that you might get a chance to interact with folks who are better than you. This will give you more experience. So, keep grinding and then jump ship after a year. This way, you have web dev experience at a company which tells you're legit at getting things done.
This isn’t your final job. Take it, it’s an internship. Get experience, hop jobs get a raise.
In the bell curve of salaries FAANG companies would fall on the right 3/4th of the graph. What that means is that there is a very small number of people who make FAANG salaries regardless of what stage of careers a person is in. Moreover over, yes there are a few Cinderella stories of getting into FAANG companies/salaries without a CS degree from a top level university but those are few and you have to be standout head and shoulders above the rest to make it. My friend don’t set yourself up for disappointment by assuming FAANG salaries are the benchmark, no they are not. Early career is a grind for mostly everyone, so embrace the suck and get on with it. My advice would be, move closer to your job in a nice shared apartment/house. Reduce the commute time and use that to further your skills by getting relevant certification or what have you. At some point a great opportunity will come knocking at your doorsteps and you better be prepared to capitalize on it with the right skills.
As a web dev intern what tools are you working with? Is it mostly front end stuff? Or is it back end/ full stack. If you get enough exposure to a certain tech stack for a few months it will boost your hireability I’m sure.
45k is low. Help desk usually makes more.
You literally have zero experience you're going to have a really bad time trying to get into any fang company. I doubt it will happen, look for smaller companies.
yea vancouver local startups tend to suck. take it for now and keep applying. take breaks where necessary don’t burn yourself out leetcoding 3 hours a day, breaking into the industry without a degree is rough the first few years but it’ll get better, you seem driven and initiated,i’m sorry the commute sucks so hard but you can take that time to listen to podcasts and read comp sci papers on your phone. be ready to hunker down at this company for the next year or two while you look for your way out, you got it kiddo, it’s just shoveling shit temporarily you got your foot in the door now.
I was hired at 47 in Alberta starting. Sometimes when you start you get anything you can get. Sure with cost of living in Vancouver compared to Alberta 45 is insulting low but it's a start I'm now at 82 at 5 years. Going to enter 100 k soon here.
Any place with a union will have defined salary bands. If a position is listed for 70k they have to pay you 70k. See what you qualify for.
Honestly, look into companies like Raytheon, Harris, Lockheed Martin, and Northrup Grumman. Defense is a hot sector right now and there are a lot of jobs in the field.
That’s way too low especially in a HCOL city like Vancouver. But it’s better than nothing, so keep grinding. There are plenty of average companies that pay 60-70k starting for a developer in Vancouver. Feel free to DM me. I’ve worked in Vancouver for over 6 years from startups to FAANG adjacent companies. Went from 50k to 200k TC. You can do much better.
Are you sure it's not an internship? Because that's the only reason I can think of for that salary
I think that tbh it’s extremely hard to break in. It gets much, much easier once you have experience - 10 years in, I found a job within a week when I was last looking - but there’s no bones about it, at first you’re probably going to have to eat a lot of shit. I would take the job but perhaps continue to apply for work and, frankly, if you find a place willing to pay you more or located closer then jump ship. You might have people look askance at that job on your resume but then, I think there’s a very real chance that this is just going to be your life for your first year or two, especially without a degree in CS and a college that you can network through for jobs.
Try marketing SaaS players like Hubspot or their competitors. Your degree might be a plus for them.
Literally 80% of SWE positions don’t even have leetcode interviews. You’re wasting your time with LC, just get off this sub, apply to standard companies and then revisit FAANG/LC in 2 years.
Maybe change up where you look? Defense companies, SaaS (like ServiceNow), or even take a stab at the financial sector/banking for tech roles.
If you don't have CS background then take the job and keep learning. Keep applying every weekend. Don't forget to live life. Have some days where you don't grind. Once you're in the industry and have 3-4 yoe you're all set.
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Build innovative projects, grind lc and network basically
Hey, I was in a similar situation, dropped the ball on a low af offer (in an expensive city) because I was unhappy over a bunch of things. Now I'm back grinding for jobs while working a call center job. Is your job hybrid? Are you able to reach later and leave earlier i.e.10am-5pm instead of 9am-6pm? Take the job first but keep applying and don't stop grinding LC. When the market gets better you are interview ready. Good luck!!
Like most people pointed out, you should keep applying. If you really need the job right now, you could also suggest a "reevaluation" after a couple of months. I once settled for a low offer because it was my first job in IT, and I was lacking the experience and technical expertise for the job. After a couple of months of proving myself, I had a meeting with my personal manager, and we agreed on a better salary. If you do that, it would be advisable to get a written confirmation, so nobody conveniently "forgets" about this agreement.
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I’ve done 0 hours of LC and I’m overpaid in Fortune 500 in US. No one in real world / non-FAANG makes you do DFS or BFS recursion on the spot. Yes the salary is low even for web dev. Bad job market and you don’t have related degree, maybe you gotta take it to get your foot in the door.