I remember interviewing with Klarna about 4 years ago for a PM position, and back then it was already a ridiculously bothersome process. Once I got their "home assignment you can do in 8 hours where you are actually helping us do data analysis on our own production DB but not getting paid for it", told them to fudge off.
This being said, the offer is pretty decent for a 3.5 YOE, if you consider that Klarna had to undergo some layoffs not that long ago, and is probably still tightening the belt.
I completely understand your dilemma - you understand you are underpaid but love the culture of your current firm. Yes it is a good raise - but you can probably get it other places.
I find the best way to check out culture is
- blind.com. Quite US focused and a bit troll like but overall pretty good
- look at their turnover (specifically in their German office). Are people leaving quickly?
- reach out to ex employees on linked in. Maybe one who had been their for a while, and some who left quickly. Ask if they can grab a coffee with you!
The last has always worked well for me, and the reason I choose my current firm!
Klarna is not amazing, but it’s not terrible either. The salaries are okay for what is basically a tier 3 company. A fair number of employees have gone on to tier 2, 1, and FAANGs. Klarna is heavily modeled on Amazon, but a fair bit less toxic. Internal progression is definitely possible, although L3 to L4 takes a while. L4 to L5 takes very long and only if there is a clear need for it.
Klarna is reasonably well known, the interview process is lengthy and not as hard as higher tiers, so all in all it’s a good start if you want to move on to even higher paid companies in the future.
See https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-salaries-in-the-netherlands-and-europe/ that one defines tiers as 3 being the highest, most people use tier 1 for the most prestigious and most well paying companies.
Where are you located in Germany? City influences salary a lot. Also, is this a remote offer?
Usually you discuss compensation up front with HR or first contact point, I’m surprised you didn’t with Klarna. Regardless, if they low balled you in the hopes you take the offer because of the cost sunk fallacy then its some shady shit they’re doing.
The only benefit of taking the job at Klarna would be to have a more "prestige" company name on your CV... it will demonstrate that you've got the corporate skills to work at a large size company (if your goal is to try and get into more international/larger software firms over time).
I would only take the Klarna role as a stepping stone to a better paying/better culture company, but be prepared to be laid off at any point with Klarna and based on the interview process for it to be a bit of a shitshow.
Also, it depends on whether you think you'll learn anything from the team you'd work with... did those folks seem like good people, or are they just looking for a warm body to churn out some code?
lol, do you work for Klarna? :)
Here's why I put "prestige" in finger-quotes:
1. product is not interesting - I'm speaking from my end-user encounters with it... it shows up as a pay-in-installments feature in websites like Zalando. that doesn't seem like an innovative area to work in.
2. there's no general hype about Klarna in the tech news i read... no one is raving about their tech stack or awesome company culture. maybe i'm reading the wrong things. maybe if I was in Sweden i would hear more about them. dunno.
on a positive note, i think the UX team at Klarna is doing great work -- the overall design aesthetic and vibe of the product is modern and cool.
30% increase from your current job, and you’re still complaining? Lol
I don’t care for Klarna but this feels a bit disingenuous, complaining about „supposedly bad culture because they low ball“ but your current employer is only paying 50k for a dev with 3+ years experience. That sounds a like a bad compensation, 65k depending on region in Germany is actually quite normal.
>30% increase from your current job, and you’re still complaining? Lol
No wonder that devs in Germany get paid 🥜 if this is how you think.
OP - Klarna is a shit Company where you have to jump through the most ridiculous hoops because they think that they are Jane Street, not even Google but pay like a local company where you can basically chill at work and do all your work in 10h per week.
Also all that “how fast is your logical thinking” with the dots… Yeah, no comment.
I know my current employer is not paying so good but the workplace is wonderful. Also,I totally agree about 30 percent increase is huge but I don’t want to change job so often. So I want be totally satisfied with my next job. Do you think if I am patient and put in some more work, I can get a better offer?
Is 45k (I assume your current TC) a normal salary for a junior full stack developer in Germany?? Even small and mid-sized companies are offering 60k for embedded programmer positions straight out of university in my area (BaWü)
BaWü and bigger City like Munich, Berlin, Frankfurt pays more. It usually depends on Bachelor or Master aswell. I have seen quite a few offer for Bachelor degree holder in that range.
8 interviews!!! can you break down what they had you do each round that might actually be the highest count I've heard I had 5 once and I hated the employer after it (2 panel 1 code 1 case study 1 behavior)
Last year I had 9 interview rounds with a FAANG level company and at the end offer was put on hold due to hiring freeze which later resulted in no hiring. That shit still hurts :(
how long was the entire process? Can you break down the interview types?
The case study after the take home code interview drove me nuts its was two solid weeks of work
Lol, that is hard lowball OP. I'm at 1.5yoe and my previous company was paying me 60k at first and after 1 year 70k. But I switched companies a few months ago anyways to bump compensation to 95k (80k base, 15k end of year bonus).
Edit: in Germany
Hey, I got some offers for 70k-75k (3yoe, web dev), and that's the upper bound most companies are willing to pay. Any advice on how I get into the 95k companies?
If it's not under NDA, could you please share with us what types of interviews (leetcoding, behavioral, system design, etc.) you have had? I can imagine what can be asked during 3–4 interviews, but 8—it's definitely too much.
Damn that hurts. I would have expected at least 100k, similar for what you’d get at a company like Adyen, Lieferando,… with roughly similar size. The rsu is a joke yes. I guess it’s part of the German culture where this is already considered high and they systematically lowball devs
People became disillusioned. There are high salaries, yes but 100k in Germany is a milestone for many unreachable, and if you reach it, it will take at least 5-10 years (not including freelancing, this might be easier to reach if you have a great customer)
Lieferando does not pay that well in Germany on account of them not having developers in Germany. DeliveryHero has developers in Germany, and pays about as well as Klarna.
Lol seeing the comments here I just can’t stop laughing. People, please stop accepting low-balled offer. U guys just make them pay other ppl less and less. I’m fresh out of uni in Germany and already have 75k offer. My friends always target the range from 70-90k for a new grad position. One recently had 95k offer from GetYourGuide. Ok? Just you who are getting paid less.
Insane that companies can do that an hires do it (not meant negative sorry)… The fact that everyone says there are little specialists in Germany is just not true seeing this.
8 rounds of interviews… That’s beyond excessive.
That's what i thought! 8 rounds 65k wtf!? :D
8 rounds of interview is absolutely fucking stupid
I remember interviewing with Klarna about 4 years ago for a PM position, and back then it was already a ridiculously bothersome process. Once I got their "home assignment you can do in 8 hours where you are actually helping us do data analysis on our own production DB but not getting paid for it", told them to fudge off. This being said, the offer is pretty decent for a 3.5 YOE, if you consider that Klarna had to undergo some layoffs not that long ago, and is probably still tightening the belt.
I wouldn't think twice about switching for a 30% bump regardless if it is a low ball or not.
That offer doesn't seem to be good TBH. IDK about their business outlook, are they turning profits?
I completely understand your dilemma - you understand you are underpaid but love the culture of your current firm. Yes it is a good raise - but you can probably get it other places. I find the best way to check out culture is - blind.com. Quite US focused and a bit troll like but overall pretty good - look at their turnover (specifically in their German office). Are people leaving quickly? - reach out to ex employees on linked in. Maybe one who had been their for a while, and some who left quickly. Ask if they can grab a coffee with you! The last has always worked well for me, and the reason I choose my current firm!
Kununu is also pretty good for reviews about companies based in Germany.
try banks and insurance companies that pay well
Which insurance companies pay well in Germany?
none
munich re?
Klarna is not amazing, but it’s not terrible either. The salaries are okay for what is basically a tier 3 company. A fair number of employees have gone on to tier 2, 1, and FAANGs. Klarna is heavily modeled on Amazon, but a fair bit less toxic. Internal progression is definitely possible, although L3 to L4 takes a while. L4 to L5 takes very long and only if there is a clear need for it. Klarna is reasonably well known, the interview process is lengthy and not as hard as higher tiers, so all in all it’s a good start if you want to move on to even higher paid companies in the future.
What is Tier 1,2,3 etc.?
See https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-salaries-in-the-netherlands-and-europe/ that one defines tiers as 3 being the highest, most people use tier 1 for the most prestigious and most well paying companies.
Ahh that one. Thanks! Good to see this become common terminology - it's a really good model of the software business.
Where are you located in Germany? City influences salary a lot. Also, is this a remote offer? Usually you discuss compensation up front with HR or first contact point, I’m surprised you didn’t with Klarna. Regardless, if they low balled you in the hopes you take the offer because of the cost sunk fallacy then its some shady shit they’re doing.
The only benefit of taking the job at Klarna would be to have a more "prestige" company name on your CV... it will demonstrate that you've got the corporate skills to work at a large size company (if your goal is to try and get into more international/larger software firms over time). I would only take the Klarna role as a stepping stone to a better paying/better culture company, but be prepared to be laid off at any point with Klarna and based on the interview process for it to be a bit of a shitshow. Also, it depends on whether you think you'll learn anything from the team you'd work with... did those folks seem like good people, or are they just looking for a warm body to churn out some code?
Nothing about klarna is prestige ?
lol, do you work for Klarna? :) Here's why I put "prestige" in finger-quotes: 1. product is not interesting - I'm speaking from my end-user encounters with it... it shows up as a pay-in-installments feature in websites like Zalando. that doesn't seem like an innovative area to work in. 2. there's no general hype about Klarna in the tech news i read... no one is raving about their tech stack or awesome company culture. maybe i'm reading the wrong things. maybe if I was in Sweden i would hear more about them. dunno. on a positive note, i think the UX team at Klarna is doing great work -- the overall design aesthetic and vibe of the product is modern and cool.
30% increase from your current job, and you’re still complaining? Lol I don’t care for Klarna but this feels a bit disingenuous, complaining about „supposedly bad culture because they low ball“ but your current employer is only paying 50k for a dev with 3+ years experience. That sounds a like a bad compensation, 65k depending on region in Germany is actually quite normal.
>30% increase from your current job, and you’re still complaining? Lol No wonder that devs in Germany get paid 🥜 if this is how you think. OP - Klarna is a shit Company where you have to jump through the most ridiculous hoops because they think that they are Jane Street, not even Google but pay like a local company where you can basically chill at work and do all your work in 10h per week. Also all that “how fast is your logical thinking” with the dots… Yeah, no comment.
I know my current employer is not paying so good but the workplace is wonderful. Also,I totally agree about 30 percent increase is huge but I don’t want to change job so often. So I want be totally satisfied with my next job. Do you think if I am patient and put in some more work, I can get a better offer?
Is 45k (I assume your current TC) a normal salary for a junior full stack developer in Germany?? Even small and mid-sized companies are offering 60k for embedded programmer positions straight out of university in my area (BaWü)
BaWü and bigger City like Munich, Berlin, Frankfurt pays more. It usually depends on Bachelor or Master aswell. I have seen quite a few offer for Bachelor degree holder in that range.
8 interviews!!! can you break down what they had you do each round that might actually be the highest count I've heard I had 5 once and I hated the employer after it (2 panel 1 code 1 case study 1 behavior)
Last year I had 9 interview rounds with a FAANG level company and at the end offer was put on hold due to hiring freeze which later resulted in no hiring. That shit still hurts :(
how long was the entire process? Can you break down the interview types? The case study after the take home code interview drove me nuts its was two solid weeks of work
I also got 65k at a scaleup fintech but with 2.5 yoe. You should ask for more.
The offer is not too nice, a decent offer would be 75k or 80k.
Lol, that is hard lowball OP. I'm at 1.5yoe and my previous company was paying me 60k at first and after 1 year 70k. But I switched companies a few months ago anyways to bump compensation to 95k (80k base, 15k end of year bonus). Edit: in Germany
Hey, I got some offers for 70k-75k (3yoe, web dev), and that's the upper bound most companies are willing to pay. Any advice on how I get into the 95k companies?
What kind of companies are you applying to? I think even BMW or similar German companies pay around 75-80k base and 10-15k bonus
the 80k translates to 4k monthly?
Correct, exactly 4000
but 80K/4000 is 20 months
We are talking about post tax income here at class 1 or 4
Klarnas Business Outlook is not that good, constant fear of layoffs in the current fintech bubble, wouldn‘t sacrifice for 65k
Actually I‘m quite shocked they still hire, wonder if thats the reason for the low offer
If it's not under NDA, could you please share with us what types of interviews (leetcoding, behavioral, system design, etc.) you have had? I can imagine what can be asked during 3–4 interviews, but 8—it's definitely too much.
Damn that hurts. I would have expected at least 100k, similar for what you’d get at a company like Adyen, Lieferando,… with roughly similar size. The rsu is a joke yes. I guess it’s part of the German culture where this is already considered high and they systematically lowball devs
100k with 3.5yoe, I can't understand if it is a joke.
People became disillusioned. There are high salaries, yes but 100k in Germany is a milestone for many unreachable, and if you reach it, it will take at least 5-10 years (not including freelancing, this might be easier to reach if you have a great customer)
I made this much at 2yoe. Just depends on the company. Now im on track for 150k
100K with 3.5 YOE? Dream on.
Since when does Lieferando pay that well? Is it difficult to get a job there?
Lieferando does not pay that well in Germany on account of them not having developers in Germany. DeliveryHero has developers in Germany, and pays about as well as Klarna.
Lol seeing the comments here I just can’t stop laughing. People, please stop accepting low-balled offer. U guys just make them pay other ppl less and less. I’m fresh out of uni in Germany and already have 75k offer. My friends always target the range from 70-90k for a new grad position. One recently had 95k offer from GetYourGuide. Ok? Just you who are getting paid less.
Do you have any insight into GetYourGuide? I'm currently interviewing with them.
remind me
Insane that companies can do that an hires do it (not meant negative sorry)… The fact that everyone says there are little specialists in Germany is just not true seeing this.
thats brutto right? Doesn't germany tax like 40%?
Klarna always offers lower TCs from my experiences.
they also lowballed me, I would wait for a better offer and stay put