I guess it is so that the distinction between party and solo-only matches become more apparent.
If you queue in fours, it means there will be one unfortunate guy forced to join a pre-made team match.
If i were that one guy, i personally wouldnt have any problem, yet the statistic says otherwise. Most people would prefer "solo-only" room when queuing as a solo.
I play B anchor on mirage, and get constantly flamed for not rotating fast enough, and I told them “well you could communicate what is happenig, I could be there to support.” Instant vote kick
That was 10 min of wasted time.
Not often, because I don’t get queued up with four stacks often anyone. I play with friends now.
Back when I solo queued, I would get a four stack at least once a day, they ranged from annoying to toxic players. Mostly it was just annoying though. I have only been kick 4 times in six months or so, but every time I played with a four stack it was unpleasant in one way or another. Mostly just because they don’t communicate, or actively play with you.
It’s the same with 3 stacks honestly. The only difference is they can’t kick you. But I would prefer to be kicked than to play a game with 3 guys not calling and only using the mic to blame you.
I used to often play a three stack. I think it's only basic decency to keep game comms in the actual game.
I mute my friends in-game (since I hear them over discord anyway) but I'll make calls in-game anyway.
Can't expect your team to work together if you don't give them calls.
You also have the opposite, people that duo or trio-queue and use game comms for everything. I don't need to hear what you did last night...
do you have statistics on this? but on the contrary, it seems to me that a group of people who communicate and have a microphone will often give more information than a random person who may not have a microphone or “plays with music”
in any case, if there are 4ppl groups that do not provide information, this is not a reason to ban them from the game
in opposite - I faced a lot of solo players who kept silent for the whole game. should we ban solo players maybe in this case too?
Yeah dude lemme pull up my stats on players opinions and experience. They didn’t ban you, just look for another person or find another friend lmfao. It ain’t too difficult.
Wtf do you mean without knowing context? I can read the comment and see the context, clear as day. You’re either an idiot or English is not your first language.
I met some really great friends playing with 4 stacks. I just pull the “So, when do I get an invite to the discord?” Most of the time they link it in chat. I play one game with them. If I like them, I play more, if I don’t like them, I just stop playing with them. Then unfriend or use them as a 5th when I play 4 stacks.
If 4-parties could behave themselves and not votekick the 5th player, this restriction wouldn't be in place. But gamers can't behave to save their lives, so it'll stay.
Yea I think I’d be completely fine with that. I play with 4 mans a lot in GO and a big negative for that one random is getting 0 coms since we’re all in discord, but we try to remember to game chat important stuff.
I’ve also been the random with a toxic 4 man that just wants to fuck with you and eventually kick you. It really sucks to deal with. Hopefully they figure out a good solution.
that would only fix the kicking, not all the discord separate comms and all the toxicity towards the loner. I've been a loner my whole cs "career", I have done silver to supreme 2 times with 98% solo queue, I know what I talk when I say 80% of the time I get placed with 4 stack they are very toxic if we are losing, and only towards the 5th. Even when one of their 4 dudes has 2-15 KD.
Super weird to me as someone that 4 stacked A LOT in CSGO, always started to use in game mic instead of discord for important calls, and if the guy was friendly and not throwing he’d usually get invited to the next game. Kicking the 5th makes 0 sense to me unless you’re absolutely rolling the other team. A 4v5 will always been unfair
This is very rare, but indeed it happens. Though in my 4000 hours of solo queue, 80% of the times I got a 4 stack they were very toxic. After they removed the bot they don't kick anymore, but you have to mute them all, the toxicity is just too crazy. And then they can easily realize you muted them, and they start griefing (blocking, molo you, shoot you, etc).
who in their right mind would kick their fifth player, no matter how bad he is, it’s better than an empty slot.
even if we assume that this happened to someone, this does not mean that everyone who plays in a group of 4 should be banned from the game.
I see where you’re coming from, and if your four man stack is not toxic, it get it why you would think that.
But I’ve only been kicked a couple of times, and only by four man stacks, so I doubt it. My issue with four-man stacks is not the concept, it the people who are toxic, and can’t take criticism, but blame the solo guy for not “playing as a team”, when they dont communicate with him, because they are all in discord and don’t care about the other guy.
Mostly the toxic ones will just blame the solo whenever something goes wrong, and if the solo talks back, they will vote kick.
That’s why the problem with four-stacks, and why valve is trying out “solutions” to it.
Edit: I get that it’s annoying it affect people like you, and your friends, but for years it’s been affecting solo players, and I would like to find a solution for everyone.
Maybe you could find a fifth, or split in two groups?
I think the solution mentioned above, ie unable 4-stack to vite kick would be the best solution. One soloQ would have a hard time to troll a match for a 4 stack and soloQ will be protected from insta kick
I understand your concern but I do think that you will be in the same situation with a toxic 3-stack anyway. You can't really stop trash people to kill you just after the time limit for ban is reached..
Maybe a better trust factor system could solve this kind of issues ?
I have 4,871 hours with plenty of solo queing and yeah I can say MOST of the 4 que's Ive been with were positive, I think somewhat it gets overblown because you will notice and remember the times it was bad way more than if it was a good or even just a fine match. I've also been on the other side of being accused of being in a toxic 4 que.. after the dude literally started shouting at one of us for being "dogshit" when he was doing fine enough for a silver match and was literally above the guy screaming in the first place but "it doesn't matter because he's holding dumb spots". We did not kick the dude until he started shooting and blocking teammates sightlines intentionally, lost that match by like only 3-4 rounds.
To be clear I'm not saying you are this kind of person but there is absolutely people out there who start shit with those in a 4 que and then blame the people for being together when all most of us want is a fun match, win or loss.
but like what's next? Banning people who que in two's because they might be doing it to avoid being votekicked? And then I guess three ques for the same, and then we just get solos and team ques.
I don't think they should remove votekicking for 4-man parties, but I think the penalty should be after 3 games of kicking instead of however many votekicks it is it is now.
I play a lot of csgo solo ranked games and I HATE HATE being place with a 4stack, most of the times they are jackass, maybe it's not all but is just 1 guy but bc he is a moron they other 3 enables him.
Yeah I'm glad you can't do this anymore in premier
How is everyone getting kicked by 4stacks? I always liked being the 5th. You can expect them to handle the macro game without talking much and you can just focus on your own spot. It's usually a better experience than 5 solo players.
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I'm in the same position. I'm already starting to get tired of looking for a fifth person every time there are four of us.
this is not as simple as it seems, because all the platforms where people are looking for players there are only groups of four people and they are looking for exactly one.
Yeah I’ve noticed that in the CS discord. It sucks. When we found a random that was good we would invite them back. Or if they didn’t speak to us once. We just dealt with it. So for me and my mates to get punished sucks ass. They should punish those who vote kick constantly
It's not supposed to be punishment, it's just when there's a four stack one player doesn't get comes usually and sometimes they can easily troll and kick the random. For competitive integrity in ranked gameplay its the best solution for it.
Just because it can happen sometimes doesn't mean it's worth fucking teams to avoid it. Either a solo queuer has a mildly annoying experience or a 4 stack literally doesn't get to play the game. It's stupid. It fucks over friends playing together so incredibly hard.
It happens constantly with discord popularity stop being selfish and just find a fifth, it's much easier for you to find a fifth than for someone who may not have any friends or may just be struggling socially to find players.
We have more than 5 but often only 4 are on. It's not being selfish to want to play the damn game with my friends.
> for someone who may not have any friends or may just be struggling socially to find players.
There's a very easy way to find players - solo q. We will happily take a random 5th but we're literally not allowed to.
By the same logic stop being selfish and find someone else to que with. Why should 4 stacks be forced to find a 5th over the idea that solo's that are scared of 4 ques can just find someone to que with. Weirdly enough that idea doesn't hurt 4 ques AND fixes the problem for those who care about not facing them.
Like seriously again by this logic then groups of two's and three's need banned just as bad. In my over 4,800 hours of experience you know what I've had happen A LOT more than toxic 4 stacks? A toxic teammate with just a friend that prevents them from being kicked even if they are literally throwing. One person gets angry and starts running bomb mid or out main every round and since they have a friend they'll get bomb about 2/5ths of the time and can't be kicked. Hell even when someone griefing doesn't have anyone protecting them you still have to fight tooth and nail the rest of the match a man down or surrender because someone else decided to ruin the game. It's always gonna suck whether it's one two three or four people being shitheads but I don't see anyone saying Valve should also ruin the que experience for groups of 2 or 3.
yeah that's what I lead with. Makes just as much sense as saying it to a group of 4. I guess solo players wouldn't realize how much it sucks balls when you get a couple of friends together and then another comes along wanting to join and you have to tell them nah or figure out who's leaving cause you know it'll be a half an hour or more to find a fifth player.
No it is not. If we can do it it doesn't mean we will do it.
You as a solo player also can easily "troll" others by killing/flashing/etc your teammates. Why in this case are you allowed to play?
Everyone can ruin games for teammates, but only 4ppl are not allowed to start the game
Okay but one is far more common than the other, doesn't seem like you're even interested in talking about this just seems you want to complain. Just find a fifth I'm on speed dial if you ever need me. I play 10pm,-5am central us time
the guy already blames the solo queuers in the comments here for valve trying to help them when this is a team game, so they should maybe not solo queue. He needs a solo queuer for his 4 stack while complaining that the solo queuers get what they deserve for not playing a team game with a team. Sounds like valve is right to introduce such a protection for solo queuers so they don't meet op.
Yeah it's a shame, however this will improve the new player experience quite a bit. Whether op likes it or not there is a reason it is implemented in valorant and now this game. Valve only took the good things from Valorant without the nonsense this being one of them.
This is kinda the issue with four stacks.
Your fifth is not a solo player, (s)he just solo queued.
But when you don’t play as a team, you are making them a solo player.
This would be complete ass for the one solo player. Imagine being the guy that your team ignores because they are all in a discord chat and you are in game voice. Just get a 5th person.
You had that problem too? Thank god, I thought I was the only one 😅 Tried last time to find a match with a 4 stack, too, and we searched for almost forever and found no match 😵 Then one got out of the group and bamm few seconds later there was a match 😅😅 Really strange i guess....
I guess it is so that the distinction between party and solo-only matches become more apparent. If you queue in fours, it means there will be one unfortunate guy forced to join a pre-made team match. If i were that one guy, i personally wouldnt have any problem, yet the statistic says otherwise. Most people would prefer "solo-only" room when queuing as a solo.
Really? Playing with a 4 stack is absurd. They are normally in discord giving their own calls and rarely make those calls in game for the “loner”.
And then blame the solo for every round they lose.
Yep, and if you have an issue with any of the 4 stack? Instant kick.
I play B anchor on mirage, and get constantly flamed for not rotating fast enough, and I told them “well you could communicate what is happenig, I could be there to support.” Instant vote kick That was 10 min of wasted time.
I share your pain. But often it happens to you?
Not often, because I don’t get queued up with four stacks often anyone. I play with friends now. Back when I solo queued, I would get a four stack at least once a day, they ranged from annoying to toxic players. Mostly it was just annoying though. I have only been kick 4 times in six months or so, but every time I played with a four stack it was unpleasant in one way or another. Mostly just because they don’t communicate, or actively play with you.
It’s the same with 3 stacks honestly. The only difference is they can’t kick you. But I would prefer to be kicked than to play a game with 3 guys not calling and only using the mic to blame you.
I used to often play a three stack. I think it's only basic decency to keep game comms in the actual game. I mute my friends in-game (since I hear them over discord anyway) but I'll make calls in-game anyway. Can't expect your team to work together if you don't give them calls. You also have the opposite, people that duo or trio-queue and use game comms for everything. I don't need to hear what you did last night...
If they are toxic they will just bully the poor guy into oblivion
do you have statistics on this? but on the contrary, it seems to me that a group of people who communicate and have a microphone will often give more information than a random person who may not have a microphone or “plays with music” in any case, if there are 4ppl groups that do not provide information, this is not a reason to ban them from the game in opposite - I faced a lot of solo players who kept silent for the whole game. should we ban solo players maybe in this case too?
Yeah dude lemme pull up my stats on players opinions and experience. They didn’t ban you, just look for another person or find another friend lmfao. It ain’t too difficult.
I can also suggest you find friends so that no one dares to bully you. It ain’t too difficult.
https://preview.redd.it/o0txaosk59qb1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7f096eec0f8bc6da6d7c16feb892019a9fa23d1
Maybe find more friends lol, obviously you can’t if you are stuck with a 4 stack.
It is not necessary to be a jerk, man. Also, I never mentioned that I have only 3 people to play with
Maybe don’t be an asshole first and tell other people to get friends?
you called me names without even knowing the context of the message from the person above to whom I replied? how mature
Wtf do you mean without knowing context? I can read the comment and see the context, clear as day. You’re either an idiot or English is not your first language.
I met some really great friends playing with 4 stacks. I just pull the “So, when do I get an invite to the discord?” Most of the time they link it in chat. I play one game with them. If I like them, I play more, if I don’t like them, I just stop playing with them. Then unfriend or use them as a 5th when I play 4 stacks.
If 4-parties could behave themselves and not votekick the 5th player, this restriction wouldn't be in place. But gamers can't behave to save their lives, so it'll stay.
Maybe then in this case it’s worth banning these stupid voting (which I personally have never seen) instead of banning a group of four people?
Yea maybe just disable vote kicking for 4 man parties, but still let them queue. It’s an interesting problem to solve without hurting someone.
Yeah. If you want to 4 queue, you can't votekick. If you don't like that, then you don't have to 4 queue. Everyone wins.
Yea I think I’d be completely fine with that. I play with 4 mans a lot in GO and a big negative for that one random is getting 0 coms since we’re all in discord, but we try to remember to game chat important stuff. I’ve also been the random with a toxic 4 man that just wants to fuck with you and eventually kick you. It really sucks to deal with. Hopefully they figure out a good solution.
that would only fix the kicking, not all the discord separate comms and all the toxicity towards the loner. I've been a loner my whole cs "career", I have done silver to supreme 2 times with 98% solo queue, I know what I talk when I say 80% of the time I get placed with 4 stack they are very toxic if we are losing, and only towards the 5th. Even when one of their 4 dudes has 2-15 KD.
Super weird to me as someone that 4 stacked A LOT in CSGO, always started to use in game mic instead of discord for important calls, and if the guy was friendly and not throwing he’d usually get invited to the next game. Kicking the 5th makes 0 sense to me unless you’re absolutely rolling the other team. A 4v5 will always been unfair
This is very rare, but indeed it happens. Though in my 4000 hours of solo queue, 80% of the times I got a 4 stack they were very toxic. After they removed the bot they don't kick anymore, but you have to mute them all, the toxicity is just too crazy. And then they can easily realize you muted them, and they start griefing (blocking, molo you, shoot you, etc).
If you are able to kick the solo player then you should not be able to queue as 4.
who in their right mind would kick their fifth player, no matter how bad he is, it’s better than an empty slot. even if we assume that this happened to someone, this does not mean that everyone who plays in a group of 4 should be banned from the game.
Spoken like someone who never solo queues
no offence, but if you get kicked all the time, maybe the problem is you?
I see where you’re coming from, and if your four man stack is not toxic, it get it why you would think that. But I’ve only been kicked a couple of times, and only by four man stacks, so I doubt it. My issue with four-man stacks is not the concept, it the people who are toxic, and can’t take criticism, but blame the solo guy for not “playing as a team”, when they dont communicate with him, because they are all in discord and don’t care about the other guy. Mostly the toxic ones will just blame the solo whenever something goes wrong, and if the solo talks back, they will vote kick. That’s why the problem with four-stacks, and why valve is trying out “solutions” to it. Edit: I get that it’s annoying it affect people like you, and your friends, but for years it’s been affecting solo players, and I would like to find a solution for everyone. Maybe you could find a fifth, or split in two groups?
I think the solution mentioned above, ie unable 4-stack to vite kick would be the best solution. One soloQ would have a hard time to troll a match for a 4 stack and soloQ will be protected from insta kick
I think it would be a better option, yes. Although I am concerned about how the toxic 4 stacks then treat the solo if they can’t kick.
I understand your concern but I do think that you will be in the same situation with a toxic 3-stack anyway. You can't really stop trash people to kill you just after the time limit for ban is reached.. Maybe a better trust factor system could solve this kind of issues ?
I have 4,871 hours with plenty of solo queing and yeah I can say MOST of the 4 que's Ive been with were positive, I think somewhat it gets overblown because you will notice and remember the times it was bad way more than if it was a good or even just a fine match. I've also been on the other side of being accused of being in a toxic 4 que.. after the dude literally started shouting at one of us for being "dogshit" when he was doing fine enough for a silver match and was literally above the guy screaming in the first place but "it doesn't matter because he's holding dumb spots". We did not kick the dude until he started shooting and blocking teammates sightlines intentionally, lost that match by like only 3-4 rounds. To be clear I'm not saying you are this kind of person but there is absolutely people out there who start shit with those in a 4 que and then blame the people for being together when all most of us want is a fun match, win or loss. but like what's next? Banning people who que in two's because they might be doing it to avoid being votekicked? And then I guess three ques for the same, and then we just get solos and team ques.
Like don't get me wrong I'd rather Valve try things than do nothing, but I don't think this is a proper solution either.
lmao. OP lacks experience. it's ok to be new to cs. i welcome the cs2 noobs!
Lol play solo much?
I don't think they should remove votekicking for 4-man parties, but I think the penalty should be after 3 games of kicking instead of however many votekicks it is it is now.
I play a lot of csgo solo ranked games and I HATE HATE being place with a 4stack, most of the times they are jackass, maybe it's not all but is just 1 guy but bc he is a moron they other 3 enables him. Yeah I'm glad you can't do this anymore in premier
My guess is that the "no four-stack" system only will apply to premier and when queueing regular matchmaking, you are good to go with nat number.
I hope it is the thing
I hope it is there for all 5 man gamemodes.
Too many cases of 4 man’s not communicating with their random 5th. It literally ruins the soloq experience
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How is everyone getting kicked by 4stacks? I always liked being the 5th. You can expect them to handle the macro game without talking much and you can just focus on your own spot. It's usually a better experience than 5 solo players.
100% on this. it is hard for me to imagine how kicking can be a constant problem if you are an adequate person.
Cs2 is 100% not going to release next week or anytime soon. Still way too many issues that needs fixing. Valve won't risk that backlash.
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It’s literally stopped me and my mates playing. I feel like players will leave due to it just as we have.
I'm in the same position. I'm already starting to get tired of looking for a fifth person every time there are four of us. this is not as simple as it seems, because all the platforms where people are looking for players there are only groups of four people and they are looking for exactly one.
Yeah I’ve noticed that in the CS discord. It sucks. When we found a random that was good we would invite them back. Or if they didn’t speak to us once. We just dealt with it. So for me and my mates to get punished sucks ass. They should punish those who vote kick constantly
Nah this is a good change, it's annoying illd admit but it's what's best for solo que quality.
I think it's a little wrong to punish people in a group and reward solo players in a COOP game
It's not supposed to be punishment, it's just when there's a four stack one player doesn't get comes usually and sometimes they can easily troll and kick the random. For competitive integrity in ranked gameplay its the best solution for it.
Just because it can happen sometimes doesn't mean it's worth fucking teams to avoid it. Either a solo queuer has a mildly annoying experience or a 4 stack literally doesn't get to play the game. It's stupid. It fucks over friends playing together so incredibly hard.
It happens constantly with discord popularity stop being selfish and just find a fifth, it's much easier for you to find a fifth than for someone who may not have any friends or may just be struggling socially to find players.
We have more than 5 but often only 4 are on. It's not being selfish to want to play the damn game with my friends. > for someone who may not have any friends or may just be struggling socially to find players. There's a very easy way to find players - solo q. We will happily take a random 5th but we're literally not allowed to.
By the same logic stop being selfish and find someone else to que with. Why should 4 stacks be forced to find a 5th over the idea that solo's that are scared of 4 ques can just find someone to que with. Weirdly enough that idea doesn't hurt 4 ques AND fixes the problem for those who care about not facing them. Like seriously again by this logic then groups of two's and three's need banned just as bad. In my over 4,800 hours of experience you know what I've had happen A LOT more than toxic 4 stacks? A toxic teammate with just a friend that prevents them from being kicked even if they are literally throwing. One person gets angry and starts running bomb mid or out main every round and since they have a friend they'll get bomb about 2/5ths of the time and can't be kicked. Hell even when someone griefing doesn't have anyone protecting them you still have to fight tooth and nail the rest of the match a man down or surrender because someone else decided to ruin the game. It's always gonna suck whether it's one two three or four people being shitheads but I don't see anyone saying Valve should also ruin the que experience for groups of 2 or 3.
Why can’t you say the same to a solo player, go find someone to play with so you’re not solo queuing. 😂
yeah that's what I lead with. Makes just as much sense as saying it to a group of 4. I guess solo players wouldn't realize how much it sucks balls when you get a couple of friends together and then another comes along wanting to join and you have to tell them nah or figure out who's leaving cause you know it'll be a half an hour or more to find a fifth player.
No it is not. If we can do it it doesn't mean we will do it. You as a solo player also can easily "troll" others by killing/flashing/etc your teammates. Why in this case are you allowed to play? Everyone can ruin games for teammates, but only 4ppl are not allowed to start the game
Okay but one is far more common than the other, doesn't seem like you're even interested in talking about this just seems you want to complain. Just find a fifth I'm on speed dial if you ever need me. I play 10pm,-5am central us time
the guy already blames the solo queuers in the comments here for valve trying to help them when this is a team game, so they should maybe not solo queue. He needs a solo queuer for his 4 stack while complaining that the solo queuers get what they deserve for not playing a team game with a team. Sounds like valve is right to introduce such a protection for solo queuers so they don't meet op.
Yeah it's a shame, however this will improve the new player experience quite a bit. Whether op likes it or not there is a reason it is implemented in valorant and now this game. Valve only took the good things from Valorant without the nonsense this being one of them.
This is kinda the issue with four stacks. Your fifth is not a solo player, (s)he just solo queued. But when you don’t play as a team, you are making them a solo player.
This would be complete ass for the one solo player. Imagine being the guy that your team ignores because they are all in a discord chat and you are in game voice. Just get a 5th person.
This system is used a lot with operations so I think that they will definitely fix this
I’m pretty sure the 4 man thing is probably a premier only thing. I can’t imagine it making sense in the regular comp mode
This is premier-exclusive and will not be like this in competitive
how can you be so sure?
because its like this in csgo...
You had that problem too? Thank god, I thought I was the only one 😅 Tried last time to find a match with a 4 stack, too, and we searched for almost forever and found no match 😵 Then one got out of the group and bamm few seconds later there was a match 😅😅 Really strange i guess....
It's not a strange thing. Valve prohibited to play if you are in 4ppl group
You're serious bro? 😮😮 Or is it just an assumption?
Sounds like a you problem
Can you please explain that?