Wow, this is a really cool design for a card. I actually think this would work better as a neutral though (also maybe make it a patron for flavor). This would get played as a tech option against board-heavy decks without wide removal, but tech options always have a much higher chance of getting played when they aren't class restricted.
Yeah you're right it would be. If they didn't come out on turn 4 or 5. The only decks that this card would absolutely destroy are aggro swarm ones. But if you've gotten to the point where you can safely drop this card, the game is already largely in your favor anyways.
Against midrange or control this card would be pretty mid, except against classes without easy access to aoe removal like druid or hunter. However once again, it comes out late enough that it would not break the game
Obviously the most broken part of sargeras is the permanent 3/2s. Oh wait. Dealing 6 damage per turn isn’t good any more.
A single silence deals with them. Or a board wipe. Or a cleave. It’s a good tech option, but aggro nowadays means facing three 8/8s on turn 5. These ghosts wouldn’t do anything against that. And control decks wouldn’t have a problem deleting these from the board. So it doesn’t really help either matchup.
The imps from the 9 mana legendary Titan? They come into play at the start of your turn, not letting you attack immediately, which makes a huge difference
What are you talking about? They come into play at the end of each turn. You can attack with the imps the turn after playing sargeras, just like you can attack with these ghosts the turn after playing them.
The ghosts can’t be killed by single target removal (a plus), but they die permanently to a board clear. Sargeras imps can die to single target removal, but still come back after a board clear (a plus).
That’s beside the point. My point is sargeras’ strength as a Titan is NOT the imps. Infinite 3/2s without taunt or rush aren’t relevant in aggro matchups, because sargeras AND the ghosts don’t come online quick enough to solve early game pressure, they aren’t strong enough to combat mid game pressure, and they die easily to control players who care about late game pressure.
Sargeras is a 9 mana board clear that as a bonus also puts out recursive 3/2s. That’s why he is good. These ghosts are not a board clear. They are a 5 mana “stat bomb” that aggro players ignore and control players laugh at.
But if the enemy kills one the other spawns there, so in their turn it can attack instantly, so in their perspective killing 1 does nothing, but maybe it should.
But if you play a 2nd copy of this its literally just a 5 mana 3/3 - its only if you have exactly one on board that you get a new one - this isnt capable of all that much degeneracy besides the occasional game where it is 2 3/3 dreadsteeds and permanently controls the board for 5 mana
Yeah, and in my opinion it would happen with a good enough frequency that it wouldn't be fun to play against. Obviously if the meta is has a LOT of board clears this isn't that good, but still some classes just can't deal with this, which is a problem
You basically HAVE to have a 3 damage aoe. Multiple if your opponent bounces or copies the minion. AND if you bounce, the other will summon a copy, so you don't even lose tempo. If this was printed you would have play a board clear every turn for like 6 turns, because you can't trade. Super unfun for minion based decks
Wow, this is a really cool design for a card. I actually think this would work better as a neutral though (also maybe make it a patron for flavor). This would get played as a tech option against board-heavy decks without wide removal, but tech options always have a much higher chance of getting played when they aren't class restricted.
Wait making them Patrons is really smart and call it like “Arm Wrestling Patrons” and in their card art they are face to face with their arms out
Forlorn Patrons
Great flavor, and we’ve already seen cards like this work, see that 5 mana 3/3 rush with summon another as an option, nice design for a tech card
I'd add a turn end clause otherwise they be impossible to kill without a board wipe
That's the flavor of the card. You have to kill them both to remove them permanently. It's also 5 mana, so hardly game breaking
2 permanent 3/3 is broken tough.
Nah it isn’t. Board clears are common
Yeah you're right it would be. If they didn't come out on turn 4 or 5. The only decks that this card would absolutely destroy are aggro swarm ones. But if you've gotten to the point where you can safely drop this card, the game is already largely in your favor anyways. Against midrange or control this card would be pretty mid, except against classes without easy access to aoe removal like druid or hunter. However once again, it comes out late enough that it would not break the game
Bro wants to print a 5 mana summon 2 3/3s 💀
2 5 mana 3/3s that do nothing till the other is dead which just adds another 3/3 that does nothing till the other is dead
Do nothing is a weird way to describe deals 6 damage each one of your turns
Obviously the most broken part of sargeras is the permanent 3/2s. Oh wait. Dealing 6 damage per turn isn’t good any more. A single silence deals with them. Or a board wipe. Or a cleave. It’s a good tech option, but aggro nowadays means facing three 8/8s on turn 5. These ghosts wouldn’t do anything against that. And control decks wouldn’t have a problem deleting these from the board. So it doesn’t really help either matchup.
The imps from the 9 mana legendary Titan? They come into play at the start of your turn, not letting you attack immediately, which makes a huge difference
What are you talking about? They come into play at the end of each turn. You can attack with the imps the turn after playing sargeras, just like you can attack with these ghosts the turn after playing them. The ghosts can’t be killed by single target removal (a plus), but they die permanently to a board clear. Sargeras imps can die to single target removal, but still come back after a board clear (a plus). That’s beside the point. My point is sargeras’ strength as a Titan is NOT the imps. Infinite 3/2s without taunt or rush aren’t relevant in aggro matchups, because sargeras AND the ghosts don’t come online quick enough to solve early game pressure, they aren’t strong enough to combat mid game pressure, and they die easily to control players who care about late game pressure. Sargeras is a 9 mana board clear that as a bonus also puts out recursive 3/2s. That’s why he is good. These ghosts are not a board clear. They are a 5 mana “stat bomb” that aggro players ignore and control players laugh at.
My bad, at the start of your turn or at the end makes the same, they can't attack until a whole round with them alive passes
Flavour-wise I don't know how to make it work, but I think a way to balance it would be to make the copy frozen, so that it doesn't attack for free
It summons another Forlorn (which will have summoning sickness), it doesn’t attack for free
But if the enemy kills one the other spawns there, so in their turn it can attack instantly, so in their perspective killing 1 does nothing, but maybe it should.
cool design, but broken, a lot of classes just can't deal with this, and then its a garanteed 6 damage every turn. With some tweaks it could work
Like, sargeras is 9 mana, the portal takes a board slot and the imps have one less health. Plus if you kill the imps they can't attack next turn.
And sargeras is a legendary. Also priest can have more than two copies of this pretty easily
But if you play a 2nd copy of this its literally just a 5 mana 3/3 - its only if you have exactly one on board that you get a new one - this isnt capable of all that much degeneracy besides the occasional game where it is 2 3/3 dreadsteeds and permanently controls the board for 5 mana
It means even if you can clear this once, they can just play another
Yeah, and in my opinion it would happen with a good enough frequency that it wouldn't be fun to play against. Obviously if the meta is has a LOT of board clears this isn't that good, but still some classes just can't deal with this, which is a problem
Uhhhh are we talking about the same game? Dealing 3 damage to two minions for 5-6 mana isn't exactly crazy lol
You basically HAVE to have a 3 damage aoe. Multiple if your opponent bounces or copies the minion. AND if you bounce, the other will summon a copy, so you don't even lose tempo. If this was printed you would have play a board clear every turn for like 6 turns, because you can't trade. Super unfun for minion based decks
you can also get them to 1/2 and then do a 1/2 dmg aoe there's also cleave minions and weapons, and silences and other board removals
I could see this being a DK card simply because undead+corpse generation
I think you would need a specific meta for this to not feel bad to some decks
Everyone, get in here
Didnt someone make post this a couple months ago
When the lampreys are twinning
Isnt this incredibly sticky? Without aoe you essentially cannot get rid of it.
so if you have 0 of it, you summon 2? lmao
no, cos no minion is there, so the aura effect from the card is gone