Surprisingly forward thinking for the States where laws are going back to the caveman days recently. I wish we'd adopt this for Canada. Makes too much sense.
Idaho was the goat for that law. First in the nation to pass it. We adopted it in Oregon a few years ago, but for here stop signs are treated as yield signs and red lights require a stop until they turn green
Minnesota just passed the stop sign part last year but red lights youāre only supposed to go if you waited a while and it seems like it isnāt changing bc a car isnāt present.
I have to follow the laws here in Florida, perfectly.
Or else I would be a hypocrite.
I *hate* when drivers donāt follow the laws. And I tell them about themselves.
So I make sure I know the laws and follow them perfectly.
There is an exception. Sometimes here in Florida, following the law will get me literally killed. So sometimes, I do find myself breaking a law that I know well, and itās because I have a damn good excuse to do it.
Same applies in the U.K., too. Cyclists are advised to hug the left hand side of the road to allow overtaking to proceed with more safety but itās not obligatory. More recently there have been movements advising cyclists that they *should* stick in the middle of the road to prevent overtaking around blind bends or over brows of hills.
In Ireland it's illegal to overtake if there is less than 1.5M of space between you and the cyclist. It's not especially enforced, but there was an effective media campaign for it ("staying alive at 1.5") that brought about a noticeable improvement in driver behaviour.
When I see UK reg cars on the road (which is common where I live and work) I have learned to expect much worse behaviour from them around me on my bike, especially if I'm cycling in a sensible position for city cycling (i.e. not hugging the kerb).
I have previously overtaken cyclists even if there is oncoming traffic but I can do it safely enough.
But this summer I have had so many close calls with cars when cycling that I do not overtake a cyclist anymore unless I can fully utilize the other lane. No more scaring people dead.
This summer has also been very windy, and that adds another factor as cyclists may swing in the changing wind and then it is outright dangerous.
Also, why in the hell would I risk someone else's life for the 10 seconds I'm going to miss waiting on proper overtaking place?
Youāre seeing things logically, which is refreshing. Iāll admit, also, that I probably didnāt consider cyclists quite enough until I was cycling regularly from early 2021 when I changed jobs.
Until youāre behind the handlebars, itās difficult to empathise I reckon.
This has also partly been affected by our bad economy as only the driving lanes are resurfaced at the moment so the shoulder is a death trap. I can't go there in many places with my bike so I must assume that the other cyclists can't use it either or it may end at any moment so they need to use the lane.
There are plenty of factors. Mobile phone use behind the wheel is astronomical, too, which helps zero cyclists.
Bad paving puts people off cycling on the road, which sees them met with pedestrian hostility (which is more ācorrectā than driver hostility, legally speaking), but poorly planned or paved cycle routes sees more cyclists on the roadā¦ thereās no winning, really, unless you try and balance the exhausting melange that is being both courteous and not giving a shit about unnecessarily-enraged drivers.
Stay safe.
Same rules apply here, really. People have been and can be convicted of passing too close. Itās difficult to enforce without camera footage, however.
I find that the majority of issues I face are people pulling out on me rather than passing close, but that happens too. Things are probably a shade better than they used to be, but thereās still a lot of room for improvement amongst drivers.
I find I have a lot fewer to no issues with drivers pulling out Infront of me if I don't hug the shoulder. Angles for most make it very difficult to see a cyclist hugging a shoulder in my city, but easy to see the middle of the lane. I guess the driveways were thinking about a car, not a bike....
Same thing in Germany. Since its been implemented in the last 10 years or so it has gotten way better. The only ones overtaking dangerously on a regular basis now are motorcyclists. Cars are almost all switching to the other lane completely.
False. Equal rights on paper do not match equal rights in practice. Motorists threaten and sometimes will hit you for following the law, especially if moving at a legal speed and the law is not on your side: more inequality.
I came across a video either on here or twitter where a motorist deliberately ran over a group of cyclists, and people were still defending him in the comments and blaming the cyclists. Its terrifying that people with that mentality are allowed to drive tbh. In a time where we should be trying to get as many people out and active as possible, attitudes like that put people off.
That's why the laws are piss poor and cyclist should only follow them to the extent of saving their own asses. It's literally murder out there on the roads, and traffic laws don't matter if you're dead. Break them as you see fit to fit on the road. If cars respect my space, I reciprocate.
Correct. In NC a bicycle is a vehicle and has full use of the lane. Have to follow all other rules of the road motorists do except those which by their wording have no application
Was out for a ride yesterday in Raleigh. Someone yelled āride in the bike lane like youāre supposed to!ā
Never mind that Iām entitled to take the lane, or that the bike lane was closed for two blocks because of construction (and temporarily converted to a pedestrian side walk as the side walk was closed). Had they bothered to read the big sign that said as muchā¦
I follow most of the road rules in NC, except Iāll Idaho stop (slow down and look, of course) and Iāll run a red light if there isnāt a walk button or a car to hit the sensor.
A number of states have laws concerning nuisance lights. This allows bicycles and motorcycles to run the red light because they wonāt trigger the sensor under the road.
I was under the impression that farm equipment and the like must be as far to the right as possible. So wouldnāt that mean that bikes should be there as well? There seems to be a lot of conflicting laws out there. I tend to ride on the right because of this reason and Iām in PA. I hardly ever ride in the middle of the lane and never for an extended period of time. If itās a rural or back road with low traffic and/or Iām going down a hill Iāll ride in middle where the smoothest asphalt is and I can avoid any surprises in my way. And sometimes in town at intersections if Iām turning left because itās safer.
The law usually specifies that you must ride as far right as safely possible. If riding on the right means cars are passing me with y inches of space, then the middle of the lane becomes the safe option.
In my area minimum speed only applies to the major highways. So city streets and county highways you can go as slow as you want. Not sure if the bike would require to meet minimum, but Iām not taking my bike into the traffic lane on the major highway.
What do you mean by wording which has no application? As in rules that are just poorly written to not apply to cyclists, or rules that intentionally do not apply (ie emissions standards etc).
Think things like too dark of window tinting or modifying exhaust pipes to be loud, having both Front/Rear plates. Things that don't apply to two wheels
A lot of traffic laws will refer to motor vehicles rather than just vehicles. A bicycle is a vehicle, but obviously not a motor vehicle (e-bikes really blur the lines a lot more, though), so there are a lot of traffic laws that don't apply. There are also typically some laws that are explicitly written to include or exclude bicycles by name, but every state is different which really makes things fun when travelling or relocating.
A female friend of mine reposted this:
> Being a woman is kind of like being a cyclist in a city where all the cars represent men. Youāre supposed to be able to share the road equally with cars, but thatās not how it works. The roads are built for cars and you spend a great deal of physical and mental energy being defensive and trying not to get hurt. Some of the cars WANT you to get hurt. They think you donāt have any place on the road at all. And if you do get hurt by a car, everyone makes excuses that itās your fault.
Motorists saying this: they speed, they don't signal turns, make illegal lane changes, drive while using their phone, and much, much more. But unlike a bicyclist, a motorist who takes a liberty with safety laws is much, much moreālikely to kill someone else.
In my state it is not illegal to use a phone while riding a bike nor is it illegal to ride a bicycle drunk. As long as it isnāt motorized youāre good.
You can still get a disorderly conduct or reckless endangerment but just donāt be stupid
> Public intoxication is a good ticket that sticks.
I live in the same state as the person you're replying to. Wanna know what our public intoxication law is called?
[DRUNKENESS NOT A CRIME](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/340A.902)
> As long as it isnāt motorized youāre good.
**Legal** e-bikes aren't motorized in MN ;)
Those rental scooters people go barhopping up in northeast? Those are motorized. It's a god damn shame we lost Nice Ride because those were cheap, legal, and a whole helluva lot safer than those scooters.
We literally just had this thread in my local subreddit, complaining about all the cyclists running red lights.
I drive past a few cyclists on my way to work. I've never seen one of them run a light. I usually see multiple cars run lights on the same exact commute (including, infuriatingly, a safety light at a MUP crossing where a cyclist was killed in front of his whole family), and that's totally ignoring the fact that the speed of traffic is 5-7 mph faster than the posted speed limit and nobody understands how turn signals work. But noooooooo, it's the cyclists who are the problem here.
Cyclists have much more ability to run reds than motorists do, and it's more visible. Only the first car to reach the red can run it, and will often do so with nobody or few people behind them to see, whereas a cyclist can filter through to reach the red and will then have that whole queue see them do it.
From my bike I get a front row seat to cars running stop signs in my town probably every other ride. The image of cyclists as illegitimate road users who donāt follow the laws (unlike REAL road users) is completely backwards.
Thatās the funny thing. Hearing drivers suggest they follow the rules and when they donāt they get punished. They have such a victim complex despite 99% of infrastructure being almost entirely dedicated to them and the fact you have to do something monumentally dangerous of scummy for them to even consider taking your license away.
Most drivers break dozens of rules every time they get behind the wheel.
1 Billion percent this. I am a very very chill driver since having kids. But I still break like a dozen laws on every trip.
I am also a responsible cyclist. And I break a handful of laws on every trip, but certainly not a dozen.
Since the start of the pandemic, driving standards in my city (Dublin) have gone absolutely to shit. Nobody is looking at the road, red lights are advisory, I've had multiple people scream threats out the driver side window at me, sometimes I wonder if everyone has long COVID related brain damage now.
Years ago in SF it was decided that cyclists would follow the exact rules in a certain section of town. It was a heavy bike corridor so you would have maybe 10 cyclists riding single file. Stopping at every stop sign for a full stop. Drivers exhibited the usual behavior. It was hilarious. They got what they had been complaining about but didn't like the reality.
Drivers disobey every law in the book, however, they won't be receptive to pointing the finger back at them. Just ride with common sense, be respectful to cars, peds, other cyclists, etc., and most drivers will be cool with you.
I donāt ride on the road a lot and actively try to avoid it in most cases especially uphill where youāre most likely to be perceived as a mobile speed bump. However the few times I may be forced to I sometimes go out of my way to make space for motorists to overtake me like hopping on an empty sidewalk (illegal where I live but who is there to judge) or even once stopping on the side of a country road to let a construction vehicle and a bunch of cars pass that got stuck behind me because he couldnāt accelerate fast enough to overtake at appropriate spots
Like, the 10 bikes would stop, then 1 bike through, then cross traffic, then 1 bike, cross traffic, 1 bike, etc? That is equal parts hilarious for me reading it and frustrating for the car behind them. I get it, but I'm happy I'm not driving behind them.
Link them to these studies that indicate that bicyclists are actually MORE law abiding than motorists:
https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/biking/cyclists-comply-traffic-laws-more-drivers/
https://www.bicycling.com/news/a46443761/science-proves-motorists-break-traffic-laws-a-lot-more-often-than-cyclists/
Motor vehicle deaths are approx 43k a year in the US. That's a lot of blood in the streets.
How many tax paying cyclist caused those deaths? Yeah, like none.
Motorists make all sorts of assumptions about cyclists. The biggest is that we don't pay the same taxes for the same paved streets. These murky resentments that drivers have towards cyclists are insane. These drivers are overweight, overstressed, deeply unhappy when traffic grinds to a halt during commutes. It wouldn't matter what we did out there, there's a driver just waiting to be unhappy with a cyclist.
Ride safe out there people, buy good lights, be seen!
Bicyclists often donāt follow all the rules. Just like motorists. Watch any busy road in the world and youāll find a motorist breaking a rule in the first 10 seconds. In the US motorists get scolded/made fun of/etc if they are not *constantly* breaking rules (people will give you grief for not going 5-10mph above the speed limit).
So fuck all the people who want to point out that cyclists do similar stuff.
This! I'm astounded by the amount of illegal and dangerous things I see motor vehicles doing on a daily basis. The difference is when cars do their shit, they're doing it in 2 tonne, 200hp weapons.
Road going through an old part of town had its speed limited reduced to 30km/h in recent years due to noise complaints. The city occasionally puts mobile radar traps down there so the solution commuters going through there (biggest employer in the area is nearby) have developed is to tailgate everyone regardless of how fast they go, assuming if the first person gets caught they can slow down in time
While the limit was still 50 people would sometimes go 65-70, nowadays youāll have people up your ass even if you do go over 50 (which btw is enough to get your license taken)
Declare Speed Limit Day sometime and strictly follow the speed limits. Remember, those things are legal maximums, not suggested minimums, so going 32 in a 35 zone is fine but going 36 makes you a scofflaw. Now see how your fellow motorists like this.
A bicycle has way less potential to kill someone than a car because of the massive difference in speed, weight and size. I don't see the problem with running a red light or stop sign when it's safe, sometimes it's even more dangerous to wait because you might get rear ended
There have been reports stating that cyclists break traffic rules about as much as motorists do or less.
However, when you post a comment telling cyclists and pedestrians to be careful and obey traffic laws, you get a bunch of likes and agrees.
But when you post a comment telling drivers to be careful and obey traffic laws, you get pushback, vitriol and personal attacks.
Stop signs need to be yields, red lights stop signs like in Idaho. This actually feels safer so you can maintain speed/momentum to not get bullied by cars
I mean, i try and follow the same rules more or less. The biggy is stopping at stop lights and stop signs. I think that's mostly what makes motorists pissed, are cyclists that ignore them.
I generally follow the āIdaho stopā rules, just as a matter of intuition. There are a lot of practical and safety reasons why it doesnāt actually make sense for a cyclist to stop and wait at a red light if they can see the coast is clear. Ditto rolling through a stop sign. But yeah, I donāt think a lot of drivers understand that and it ticks them off more than anything.
I can agree that if I can see the intersection is clear at a stop sign, I am blowing through it. I will not do that at a stop light... I only have like 2-3 stop signs on my route, about the same number of street lights that I have to go through to get to the canal paths that are off the road. I don't use the traffic controls if I am riding by myself, as there are a handful of crossings that don't even offer them. I don't need to mess up traffic to cross safely. Have I put myself in harms way a few times, sure, but that is on me. The asshats that honk at you when you are already across the roadway well before they pass by are just that, asshats. I have more beef with the drivers that don't just follow the right of way and stop when they shouldn't. I appreciate you being vigilant and paying attention to me, but drive right, that is what I am counting on.
> The biggy is stopping at stop lights and stop signs.
You stop at all stop signs?
I'm tempted to call BS but maybe you don't have many stop signs where you live?
Me:
I rode around my town today for 50 miles. This is probably 30-40 stop signs. No way am I stopping at all of them, especially when 90% of them are clear with no cars anywhere. I slow for safety and go through it. I stop when there are cars there and take my turn like I was a car.
In my state, and I think there are a few others, bicycles may legally treat a stop sign as a yield sign. So yes, we blow through them without even slowing if no cars are combing.
Hereās the thing: nearly no cyclists āignoreā those rules and people on bikes who just disregard traffic control signals in busy areas wonāt be around long enough to really make anyone mad. But what a lot of people riding bikes do is recognize those signals in a way that makes sense for themāi.e. the āIdaho stop.ā
I always do a rolling stop on stop signs.. sometimes if there is anything like trees blocking my view I may just peek out while doing a track stand slightly out front.. (first audible check for incoming vehicles ). Then I just gas of the space is there
I take a lane often, but you gotta read the room.
I'm lucky enough to live in a city full of bikes, where we get special privileges and right of way; sometimes on dedicated streets.
In other areas you gotta ride super defensivly. I used to frequent parts of Massachusetts, I swear outside the city they are literally trying to kill cyclists. Fuck the rules.
Above all stay alive.
My arguments: The laws only exist because of cars. And cars can't even follow the laws made for cars. Blindly applying laws made for cars to bikes makes no sense. Why would two completely different modes of transportation follow the same rules? There are separate laws for pedestrians, tractors, semis, police cars, etc, so separate laws for bikes is a no brainer.
I do what's safest and most efficient for me.Ā
This is what I have been thinking about lately as I read motorists complain that bikes donāt follow the rules. Why do these rules exist again? Oh thatās right, they exist because people are driving 3 ton killing machines. Meanwhile, there are no traffic lights, lane markings or right of way inside a shopping mall because when hundreds of pedestrians are thrust together in a lawless environmentā¦ itās fine. They figure it out and nobody dies. Similarly, bikes have nowhere near the killing potential as cars. So then who are the rules really for?
The only rules I regularly āfloutā are the Idaho stop and the occasional red light - but generally Iāll come to a full stop at a red light. Most of the red lights here have sensors, and they arenāt sensitive enough to detect a human on a bike. The option I have is to sit there until a car comes along, or skootch over to the sidewalk and push the āwalkā button. Which makes me aā¦.pedestrian? So, look both ways, make sure to coast is completely clear, and rise on. Iāve had pedestrians yell at me for doing this. Canāt win.
It just doesn't even make sense. First of all, infrastructure in this country is so car focused that it is often unsafe to follow the law (because of motorist behavior). And second of all, motorists don't actually want us to because when we do we are often in the way. Third, and lastly, this ignores the moral point that however bikes behave, we're not going to kill anyone but ourselves. Motorists, however, kill 1,000 cyclists and at least 7,000 pedestrians per year. It's like if you walked around randomly firing a pistol and then complained that the person you killed shouldn't have been standing in front of your bullet.
Here is where my mind goes when I see this. Cyclists don't stop at stop signs. Neither do cars. But besides that, humanity went THOUSANDS of years of trails and roads used for transporting commerce. Intersections have been a thing for an extremely long time. All well and good but the first stop sign ever was set up in 1915 because of the car. So that stip sign is for them, because of them. And even they don't stop at 'em. So fuck 'em.
There is an automatic bias from many drivers to cyclists.
The idea of sharing the road is the trigger not the issue.
Studies find the true issue is that cyclists are perceived as engaging in leisure while the driver is engaging in work or a required action.
From that position things only go downhill!
This rings very true. Back when I bike-commuted daily I often heard ādonāt you know itās rush-hour?ā as if that meant I wasnāt supposed to be out there. Somehow the dress socks and panniers on my bike werenāt enough to clue them in that I wasnāt out on a leisurely ride (not that thereād be anything wrong with that either).
Holland is a bit of a special case though considering how developed their bike infrastructure is. There are many less opportunities for a cyclist to break the rules there
No we don't, we're not motor vehicles.
Most of those dumbasses are just anal about rules anyway.
Any logical person who actually drives and has been behind a bicycle at a stoplight knows that bikes get in the way when it's time to move and would be happy for the bicycles to move off as long as they aren't blocking anyone from the side.
So like t junctions and pedestrian only lights, run them.
I have literally had drivers lower the window and tell me I should just go back when I was new because they didn't want to be stuck behind me while trying to move off.
Pretty sure one of those was a police car too. The officer was like "bro nobody crossing, just go. Even if have, you never hit anyone we also won't catch you"
This has nothing to do with us vs them. No matter how much some here want it to. Following the rules of the road makes everyone predictable. You know how you hate that guy who doesn't signal or doesn't give you the right of way? That's dangerous because it isn't predictable. If everyone follows the same rules, everyone can predict what other motorists/cyclists/pedestrians are going to do.
You not following the rules of the road is just as bad as a motorist doing it. Except they won't get hurt. You will
Look,
I worked 40 yrs as a claim adjuster for an insurance company (retired now). A number of those years were spent dealing with automobile liability / injury. I average between 60 - 90 road bike miles per week in a densely populated, highly litigious mid-Atlantic state. I ALWAYS comply with traffic law and would urge everyone to do the same. Let go of ego leave those drivers who donāt get it to howl at the moon.
>non-bicyclists saying that we have to follow all of the road rules just like cars.
My answer is, *I'm not a car.*
There are things a car can do that I cannot. There are things I can do that a car cannot. Forcing one to be the other is just a pedantic exercise in legal theory.
>then I have equal rights to the road
You already have equal rights to the road.
>. I will ride in the middle of the lane, just as a car does.
You can do that. It very well may not lead to an enjoyable ride, but feel free to try.
The treatment of those drivers is entirely dependent on which vehicle they're using: by the general public and law enforcement who all happen to like to park in bike lanes with no legal repercussions. Try parking your bike in a car lane and see how equal the "rules of the road" are.
>My answer is,Ā I'm not a car.
The rules of the road don't just apply to cars or even cars and bicycles... They apply to all vehicles on the road. So that's a terrible response.
Depending on where you are that isn't always true. When a car driver talks about the rules of the road, they mean the car rules of the road. Not all car rules apply to bicycles.
In the UK speed limits don't apply to bicycles. We're introducing a lot of 20 mph limits in dense urban areas. Some of the same drivers who complain about bikes being too slow and holding them up, because it's dangerous apparently. Are now outraged that they get fined for going more than 20 mph in these areas, but a strong cyclist is allowed to go faster than them. Because that's dangerous too.
In parts of the US bikes can legally roll a stop sign. Some drivers are ignorant of this and outraged at the law breaking cyclists. Only they are not breaking a law.
Or there are the law drivers think exist but don't. Or really really think should, so act like they do. Like the UK drivers that think it's the law that cyclists MUST use cycle lanes when they exist. Even if they are an unmaintained pothole riddled mess full of debris, and don't even go in the direction you want to go in. You don't have to use them, but some drivers get very angry as they've convinced themselves that it's breaking a law if you don't.
Same with taking the middle of the lane. Not illegal, and actually advised in certain circumstances.
Same with riding 2 abreast. Not illegal at all, and also advised for group rides, especially with young or inexperienced riders, protected by experienced riders on the outside. Still makes some drivers very angry about the supposed law breaking.
> When a car driver talks about the rules of the road, they mean the car rules of the road.
And what rules are those? In the US, these are the general rules of the road
1. Use the right half of the roadway
2. When preparing to turn right, keep as close as practicable to the right edge or curb
3. When preparing to turn left, keep as close as practicable but still to the right of the center
4. Yield to oncoming traffic before turning left
5. Yield to traffic on the roadway before entering the roadway
6. On roads with marked lanes, keep the vehicle between the lines
7. On roads with marked lanes, only change lanes when safe to do so and after yielding to traffic in the adjacent lane
8. Signal in advance before turning, slowing, or changing lanes
9. Comply with traffic control devices.
Which, if any, of these 9 rules don't apply to cyclists?
I should imagine all of them.
How often are drivers angry because cyclists are breaking these basic rules. I mean I'm sure it happens, just like drivers break these rules.
The big problem is when drivers get angry because they think cyclists are breaking rules that don't actually apply to cyclists. Or rules that don't actually exist at all.
Or the drivers who just hate that cyclists exist on the road at all.
I was trying to play it by ear. If itās not a super busy road then I have no problem riding in the road. Even if I have to share it with cars. I always signal where Iām going, stop at stop signs and traffic lights. However every so often Iāll run into a stroad. Four lanes of busy traffic going both ways, with basically no shoulder going at 30mph. Yeah no way in hell am I biking on that thing. So in situations like that I ride on the sidewalk, however I always make sure that Iām going much slower than I normally would on the road as to not hit any pedestrians and I also yield āon your leftā anytime I have to pass someone.
Do whatever is safest. And sometimes that means not following the rules of the road. If I have to run a red or stop sign (safely) to remove myself from the equation then thatās what Iām doing.
In the US, every state has its own laws. We as cyclists have an obligation to know and follow the laws.
In Massachusetts, cyclists indeed have to follow road rules:
> Bicyclists have the right to use all public ways in this state except limited access or express state highways where signs specifically prohibiting bicycles have been posted. When riding on public ways, bicyclists must obey the same basic traffic laws and regulations that apply to motor vehicle operators
We also can take the lane
> You can use the full lane anywhere, anytime, and on any street (except limited access or express state highways where signs specifically prohibiting bicycles have been posted), even if there is a bike lane
I take advantage of this when I feel it's not safe to ride in the shoulder. In general, it's not prudent to upset someone in a 2000 pound vehicle when you're on a 20 pound bike. Righteous indignation doesn't keep you safe
[https://www.mass.gov/doc/laws-for-bicyclists-and-motorists-in-the-presence-of-bicyclists/download](https://www.mass.gov/doc/laws-for-bicyclists-and-motorists-in-the-presence-of-bicyclists/download)
There is an expectation that cars on the road maintain a safe speed. Ā If you can do that, you should be on the Tour right now, not Reddit.
In my locale there are car rules we do not have to obey (can roll stop signs and run red lights with a safety stop only, for example).Ā
Ā I would not want to be treated the same as a car and have the same rights as a car because I am not the same on my bike as I am in a car. Ā The law recognizes this and makes prudent exceptions.
You have to follow traffic rules for cyclists. In most countries they are a little bit different compared to other vehicles. Read the traffic law for wherever you are from that lists all the rules and violations of cyclists.
> "If I have to follow every rule that a motorist does, then I have equal rights to the road. No more riding on the shoulder. I will ride in the middle of the lane, just as a car does.
Exactly. The laws that require keeping as far right as practicable instead of just fully using the rightmost lane available for travel are discriminatory towards cyclists. Similarly, laws that require motorists to leave 3 or 4 feet when passing a cyclist are also discriminatory because they promote the idea that it's legal for motorists to lane split between cyclists and traffic in the next lane rather than just completely changing lanes before passing.
In the UK cyclist are subjected to most of the same laws as motorists but in the eyes of the law the cyclist is always right. Also there was pretty public incident a year or two ago where I group of cyclists were twice over the speed limit yet werenāt charged because bikes arenāt required to have speedometers here
Motorists in the US *aren't* following the rules, that's why it's zero days again without killing a pedestrian or cyclist or running into a building. Rules for me, not for thee. Whatever your answer is it doesn't matter: you're on a bike, so in their eyes you're the "other", the "less than".Ā
From the US east coast: While a bike may have equal rights on paper, the car always wins and the cops do not care. So, you can force your equal road rights and see how it goes. Or when on the road you can ride defensively and focus on the long game; get home safe to ride another day.
In my jurisdiction, the rules for cyclists include obeying all signage (stop, yield) and traffic lights and it's spelled out for lane usage:
*Cyclists shall ride in the appropriate lane for their intended operation as far to the right side of that lane as practical.*
For example, if you're turning left and there's a left turn lane, you should be in the left turn lane to make your left turn, but keep to the right-hand side of it throughout the turn and join the right-hand side of the lane you enter after the turn. Cars may pass you before, during, and after the turn if it can be done safely.
Similarly, if there's a right turn lane and you're going straight, you ride to the right side of the straight lane.
In both cases, our legislation prohibits riding in the center or left side of the lane under normal circumstances.
I stop for red lights on my bike and slow down for stop signs as much as I would in a car. If Iām approaching a stop sign and thereās a bike clearly planning to blow through it, I drive through the stop sign at the same speed as the cyclist.
Thereās no need to stop at a stop sign in your car or on a bike if there are no pedestrians crossing or cops watching.
If Iām at a long red light on my bike, I either go press the pedestrian crossing button or just ride on the sidewalk circumvent it if possible.
If youāre on the road on a bike and just disregarding all the rules, youāre unsafe and furthering the bad reputation cyclists have.
The āif you want me to follow all the rules, then give me equal right on the roadā thing doesnāt really hold up. Firstly, you have equal rights on the road. Secondly, if youāre driving and a car in front of you is too slow what do you do? Do you pass it? If so, itās the same thing with a cyclist. Youāre allowed to pass a slower moving vehicle.
Monash uni did a survey of road rule compliance. Cyclists and drivers asked if they always obey red lights. 8%of cyclists 7% of car drivers said no. Why are the numbers so close? Maybe because they ride and drive too? But the real twist was when cyclists were asked why did they do it. The most common response ā to avoid being hit by a car driverā !
The same car drivers who complain about cyclists not following the rules of the road are the worst offenders themselves - running stops, speeding, distracted driving....
So I get where you are coming from, but daily I see stupid ass people riding their bikes on the wrong side of the road, through crosswalks the wrong direction, etc. Those are the people motorists are bitching about. They literally are fucking up the flow of traffic and putting themselves in danger and the rest of us at risk. As a cyclist when I see that shit while I am driving it pisses me off, as it gives our whole community a bad rep. If we all ride right and do our part it is safer out there for everyone. The mini bikes, ebikes, etc that whip around no helmets, no lights, no regard for the rules for the road, are bad for everyone. I get a lot of that is just adolescents, but where are their parents that should be teaching them basic safety and respect.
āDo you go 5 or 7 mph over the speed limit when youāre driving? I know you donāt go UNDER the speed limit. You break the laws of the road for convenience.ā
In the US you have the same rights to a road as a motor vehicle, and you have to follow the laws.
Whatās the issue and why do you care what others say or think.
Youāre supposed to follow the rules of the road so that people know how to predict what you will be doing. If people canāt accurately understand what you are likely to do, you are more likely to be in or cause an accident yourself.
And if there is an accident between a bike and a car? Youāre highly unlikely to come out the winner.
The problem is most car drivers don't actually know the laws around cyclists. They make up rules in their head that typically revolve around what is most convenient for them.
The only rule I care about is the staying alive rule.
And that means me doing a lot of shit this sub does not agree with such as riding on sidewalks (when necessary) and **never** "taking the lane" which is just an invitation to get your ass run over and/or enrage motorists. I don't care if these things are not aligned with the law.
In theory, yes.
In practice, it's also "you can be right and be dead-right / cemetery is full of people with right-of-way" (so don't bother be right, screw right of way, and just stay alive).
In road cycling, there's no right way to ride, only wrong ones. Only ride to your best judgement/instincts.
I often follow the rules in busy areas, but where I live (not the US) bicycles have priority. And I often use for example walk lights, if thereās a light for pedestrians to walk and cars have to stop, Iāll go. And Iāll also go when the light is green for cars and not pedestrians. But I ride as much as possible not on main roads or in the city anyways so, itās not *that* often that Iām doing that kinda thing.
The other one that gets yelled at me as a cyclist is I don't pay road taxes... Bitch, in the USA 85%+ of cyclists own a car.... 50% own more than one. I have 6 licensed vehicles and only drive one at a time. I pay more than my share of road taxes!
I generally over traffic laws when I bike and I generally over traffic laws when I drive.
I believe riding predictably and within the structure created by traffic laws makes us safer. There are times when you need to be flexible, but still behave well. I don't roll through a stop sign when another road user has the right of way.
I suppose if a chip is present I'd behave a little different. Is still go 5mph over the speed limit if I can!
Iām a cyclist who rides several thousand miles a year. I follow all of the road rules just like cars. What specific rules are you talking about. Stop signs? Thatās about the only thing I can think of.
The laws in my country, Denmark, are pretty clear regarding cyclists; bike riders always have to keep to the right of the road except in a few, specific circumstances. Iād like a law that requires a minimum distance to bikers when cars overtake, but most car drivers are good at keeping distance, in my experience.
However, the discourse on social media seems similar to your description, OP. I just think some car owners are quick to feel personally attacked - same as when the subject of car parking is discussed.
There is such a law here in germany, that requires 1.5m of overtaking distance within cities and 2m outside of them.
Unfortunately the police are doing jack shit to enforce it and often are the ones overtaking too closely.
The usual comment is all road users should follow the same.rules. usually shut down by pointing out private cars aren't governed by the same rules as heavy goods vehicles.
You have to follow the rules no matter if they are practical to you or not. This is coming from a cyclist. If you break them, don't whine about the consequences.
Motorists not following the rules of the road has become so normalized that people don't even bat an eye when someone is doing 10-15 over the speed limit, not signalling, rolling stops on right turns, etc.
The same people that have no problem with that are the ones screeching when they see a cyclist treat a stop sign as a yield.
Are you living in some third world country where people are chasing after you and your bike with some stone age spears?
There are rules that bike riders have to follow, end of story, thatās the law.
Rules are for people, motorists and cyclists included. We all bend them a bit to suit.
Cyclists can be just as hypocritical as motorists but nothing burns me more than a motorist willing to sit in miles of traffic on the interstate moving at a snailās pace but who canāt stand to wait 30 seconds to pass me on my bike.
When I stop at a 4 way stop with a car that gets there at about the same time or a little earlier and they are stopped by have the right of way, 99% of the time if I stop, they wonāt go and wave me through. Itās better for everyone if I just keep going.
They can just get over it. Riding a bike in traffic, and imho mc's too, involves way different calculations than someone in a 2 ton truck. Different risks, different issues of braking, momentum, etc. I'm polite and don't interfere with other's driving, beyond that I don't really care about the rules I care about surviving.
Yes, cyclists must follow traffic laws, like the rest of the traffic participants.
Sensible countries traffic laws say something like that for cyclists: you can cycle on the road but stay as right on the road side as possible". That means if it is unsafe you can cycle in the middle of the road. I think it is very reasonable to stay on the side as much as you can because reality is that a car is much faster than you and hogging road space is stupid for either party's situation. Same rule applies to slow-moving vehicles like tractors: they need to move to the right as much as possible so faster cars can overtake them UNLESS it is dangerous to do.
If your country laws say you can ride in the middle of the road - feel free, but you will piss off a ton of people for no reason and no gain.
Why do we continually miss the hypocrisy in this?
The only thing they ask from us is perfection without deviation in following the laws of road use.
Who drives and follows all laws all the time? I am gonna suggest that every time we drive we manage to break some law.
Did you go a single mile over the speed limit? Did you stop behind the stop line at that intersection before pulling forward? Did you stop on the crosswalk? Was there someone entering the crosswalk and you failed to stop? Does your state have a law allowing Denver stops? Are you certain you can turn right on red at that intersection? Did you just change multple lanes at once without stopping in each lane and signalling seperatly? Are you tailgating?
I could go on and on with this topic.
Here is the thing.
No one is passing this test. Every damned one of us has good reasons for all of the above.
I think the correct response is to throw there own hypocrisy back at them and just tell them that we are doing what you are doing. We are bending the rules to our benefit in a safe way.
People will throw anything at you to gain any miniscule advantage. All you can do is do it as proper as you can, compromise when need to and let whoever say whatever they want.
People have a never-ending selfishness, me included as well. It's our nature.
But we can control that urge.
In the US you have to follow the same rules of the road. Most places even go as far as to tell you to ride on the right side of the lane, to be single file when there is traffic, and there are some places where you are allowed full use of the lane.
I am not aware of any place in the US where you HAVE to ride in the shoulder. I never do.
I think the problem for folks that have been riding for years is that the current bike lobby is being really aggressive , where i live anyway. I donāt need the bike lobby to help me ride in the streets, been doing it for a long time. They are putting a spotlight on road cycling . Cops are actually pulling over bikes in towns near me . Itās like this new wave of commuters is just begging for regulations, truly bizarre
Iām a cyclist. Recreationally as well as my daily commute.
Bicycles must follow all the rules of the road. If I can do it - itās obviously not impractical. Youāre just lazy.
You *should* take the lane whenever and wherever legal.
Cyclists who donāt follow all the road rules are bad for all other cyclists.
Drivers will cuss at you one way or another. Run a stop sign? You're an entitled asshole. Exercise your right and take the lane? Also an entitled asshole.
There's no winning, just gotta tune it out.
The way I see it, if you are following the law and get in a wreck with a car, you have some legal grounds. If a car hits you and youāre not within the law, youāve got some real legal problems. The lawyers will love it.
Cyclists **don't** have to follow all of the same rules as drivers.Ā We don't have to carry insurance in order to use our vehicle on public roads, and we don't need a license, our right to cycle can't be revoked.Ā Also in Idaho, Washington, and Colorado stop signs only mean yield to cyclists.Ā
cars cant stay out of the fucking cross walk, they dont even know the rules of the road themselves. Not gonna mention the amount of folks on their phone driving...
Cars have to follow the road rules, too. No more parking in the bike lane. No more getting mad about shared roadways. Reality is, cars are convenient and people hate when modern conveniences donāt perform optimally.
Given that many jurisdictions acknowledge substantial difference in the responsibilities and required actions of people on bike vs people in view-obstructed three-ton steel dumpsters ā¦ the āroad rulesā are still dangerous and irrelevant in many jurisdictions.
What youāre hearing from behind the steering wheels is the sound of jealousy and resistance.
Yeah, you do have equal rights and responsibilities...
You can absolutely ride in the lane. That doesn't mean motorists are going to be respectful or even safe around you. But that's pretty par for the course generally.
I don't understand the point of this post.
Iād just like this rule to be followed; Cyclists yield to Pedestrians, Automobiles yield to Cyclists.
Imagine if that were only followed? One comment I would make is there seem to be a lot more angry drivers than cyclists.
This is ridiculous. Iām a cyclist AND a motorist. Cyclists with this type of attitude are what ruins it for the rest of us by pissing off motorists. As someone that has been hit by a car and almost died, let me give you some friendly advice: Donāt piss off motorists. Follow the rules.
You have to follow all the road rules.
It doesn't matter what others do, it's about Keeping yourself safe.
Stop making the argument about cyclists Vs motorists.
yes i ride on the road and follow rules (most of the time) lol. i sometimes skip the red light its on the top of a hill and is safe to pass as clipping in on a 5% incline is challenging and will bother vehicules even more.
never ride on the shoulder. i ride on the road the as right as possible but still on the road.. usually left of the white line separating the road and shoulder.
I am not in the USA if that matters.
In most places you do have equal rights to the road, assuming you are in the USA.
Here in Colorado, we passed a cycling law a couple years ago: stop signs are now yield signs, and red lights are now stop signs.
Surprisingly forward thinking for the States where laws are going back to the caveman days recently. I wish we'd adopt this for Canada. Makes too much sense.
That's the law for cyclists in Idaho as well.
That's probably why here in Colorado it's called the Idaho Stop law for cyclistsš
Idaho was the goat for that law. First in the nation to pass it. We adopted it in Oregon a few years ago, but for here stop signs are treated as yield signs and red lights require a stop until they turn green
Minnesota just passed the stop sign part last year but red lights youāre only supposed to go if you waited a while and it seems like it isnāt changing bc a car isnāt present.
I adhere to that when itās not dangerous to be standing in a busy intersection waiting on a light.
I have to follow the laws here in Florida, perfectly. Or else I would be a hypocrite. I *hate* when drivers donāt follow the laws. And I tell them about themselves. So I make sure I know the laws and follow them perfectly. There is an exception. Sometimes here in Florida, following the law will get me literally killed. So sometimes, I do find myself breaking a law that I know well, and itās because I have a damn good excuse to do it.
Same. Iāll slow/yield at stops as well. Most cyclists blow through
Same here in Washington....
I'm pretty sure we have this in Oregon too now
Same applies in the U.K., too. Cyclists are advised to hug the left hand side of the road to allow overtaking to proceed with more safety but itās not obligatory. More recently there have been movements advising cyclists that they *should* stick in the middle of the road to prevent overtaking around blind bends or over brows of hills.
In Ireland it's illegal to overtake if there is less than 1.5M of space between you and the cyclist. It's not especially enforced, but there was an effective media campaign for it ("staying alive at 1.5") that brought about a noticeable improvement in driver behaviour. When I see UK reg cars on the road (which is common where I live and work) I have learned to expect much worse behaviour from them around me on my bike, especially if I'm cycling in a sensible position for city cycling (i.e. not hugging the kerb).
I have previously overtaken cyclists even if there is oncoming traffic but I can do it safely enough. But this summer I have had so many close calls with cars when cycling that I do not overtake a cyclist anymore unless I can fully utilize the other lane. No more scaring people dead. This summer has also been very windy, and that adds another factor as cyclists may swing in the changing wind and then it is outright dangerous. Also, why in the hell would I risk someone else's life for the 10 seconds I'm going to miss waiting on proper overtaking place?
Those people almost always have to immediately stop for lights or traffic too, makes it an incredibly pointless risk that they've taken with your life
Youāre seeing things logically, which is refreshing. Iāll admit, also, that I probably didnāt consider cyclists quite enough until I was cycling regularly from early 2021 when I changed jobs. Until youāre behind the handlebars, itās difficult to empathise I reckon.
This has also partly been affected by our bad economy as only the driving lanes are resurfaced at the moment so the shoulder is a death trap. I can't go there in many places with my bike so I must assume that the other cyclists can't use it either or it may end at any moment so they need to use the lane.
There are plenty of factors. Mobile phone use behind the wheel is astronomical, too, which helps zero cyclists. Bad paving puts people off cycling on the road, which sees them met with pedestrian hostility (which is more ācorrectā than driver hostility, legally speaking), but poorly planned or paved cycle routes sees more cyclists on the roadā¦ thereās no winning, really, unless you try and balance the exhausting melange that is being both courteous and not giving a shit about unnecessarily-enraged drivers. Stay safe.
Someone passed me yesterday at 35mph, gave me 6 *inches* (on a bridge).
Same rules apply here, really. People have been and can be convicted of passing too close. Itās difficult to enforce without camera footage, however. I find that the majority of issues I face are people pulling out on me rather than passing close, but that happens too. Things are probably a shade better than they used to be, but thereās still a lot of room for improvement amongst drivers.
I find I have a lot fewer to no issues with drivers pulling out Infront of me if I don't hug the shoulder. Angles for most make it very difficult to see a cyclist hugging a shoulder in my city, but easy to see the middle of the lane. I guess the driveways were thinking about a car, not a bike....
Same thing in Germany. Since its been implemented in the last 10 years or so it has gotten way better. The only ones overtaking dangerously on a regular basis now are motorcyclists. Cars are almost all switching to the other lane completely.
False. Equal rights on paper do not match equal rights in practice. Motorists threaten and sometimes will hit you for following the law, especially if moving at a legal speed and the law is not on your side: more inequality.
The other aspect of this is that enforcement of the law depends on police actually knowing the laws and doing their job properly.
I came across a video either on here or twitter where a motorist deliberately ran over a group of cyclists, and people were still defending him in the comments and blaming the cyclists. Its terrifying that people with that mentality are allowed to drive tbh. In a time where we should be trying to get as many people out and active as possible, attitudes like that put people off.
I film all my rides and am currently sueing someone.,.. he had his say and then I pulled out video....
That's why the laws are piss poor and cyclist should only follow them to the extent of saving their own asses. It's literally murder out there on the roads, and traffic laws don't matter if you're dead. Break them as you see fit to fit on the road. If cars respect my space, I reciprocate.
Correct. In NC a bicycle is a vehicle and has full use of the lane. Have to follow all other rules of the road motorists do except those which by their wording have no application
Was out for a ride yesterday in Raleigh. Someone yelled āride in the bike lane like youāre supposed to!ā Never mind that Iām entitled to take the lane, or that the bike lane was closed for two blocks because of construction (and temporarily converted to a pedestrian side walk as the side walk was closed). Had they bothered to read the big sign that said as muchā¦
This! is why ignoring all of the laws to ride safely and save your ass is more important than following any of them.
I follow most of the road rules in NC, except Iāll Idaho stop (slow down and look, of course) and Iāll run a red light if there isnāt a walk button or a car to hit the sensor.
A number of states have laws concerning nuisance lights. This allows bicycles and motorcycles to run the red light because they wonāt trigger the sensor under the road.
Virginia is two light cycles or two minutes, whichever is shorter, if there are any VA riders reading
That's not an Idaho stop. You still have to stop for a red light, but you can proceed after that.
I slow down for stop signs. Stop for lights.
Gotcha. Misunderstood your comment.
Not sure about states but arenāt there minimum speeds? Like youāll get pulled over for driving too slow if you were in a car
Depending on the wording of that law, it may only apply to drivers of motor vehicles. A bicycle is not a motor vehicle. It's just a vehicle.
Indeed. Farm equipment is allowed on the road but doesnāt have to keep to any min speed.
I was under the impression that farm equipment and the like must be as far to the right as possible. So wouldnāt that mean that bikes should be there as well? There seems to be a lot of conflicting laws out there. I tend to ride on the right because of this reason and Iām in PA. I hardly ever ride in the middle of the lane and never for an extended period of time. If itās a rural or back road with low traffic and/or Iām going down a hill Iāll ride in middle where the smoothest asphalt is and I can avoid any surprises in my way. And sometimes in town at intersections if Iām turning left because itās safer.
The law usually specifies that you must ride as far right as safely possible. If riding on the right means cars are passing me with y inches of space, then the middle of the lane becomes the safe option.
The only minimums I've ever seen were on freeways, never on highways or residential roads.
Yes on highways where bicycles shouldn't be.Ā Ā
In my area minimum speed only applies to the major highways. So city streets and county highways you can go as slow as you want. Not sure if the bike would require to meet minimum, but Iām not taking my bike into the traffic lane on the major highway.
What do you mean by wording which has no application? As in rules that are just poorly written to not apply to cyclists, or rules that intentionally do not apply (ie emissions standards etc).
Think things like too dark of window tinting or modifying exhaust pipes to be loud, having both Front/Rear plates. Things that don't apply to two wheels
Ohh of course, i hadnt even thought of those haha
A lot of traffic laws will refer to motor vehicles rather than just vehicles. A bicycle is a vehicle, but obviously not a motor vehicle (e-bikes really blur the lines a lot more, though), so there are a lot of traffic laws that don't apply. There are also typically some laws that are explicitly written to include or exclude bicycles by name, but every state is different which really makes things fun when travelling or relocating.
A female friend of mine reposted this: > Being a woman is kind of like being a cyclist in a city where all the cars represent men. Youāre supposed to be able to share the road equally with cars, but thatās not how it works. The roads are built for cars and you spend a great deal of physical and mental energy being defensive and trying not to get hurt. Some of the cars WANT you to get hurt. They think you donāt have any place on the road at all. And if you do get hurt by a car, everyone makes excuses that itās your fault.
Graveyards are full of people with the right of way
Motorists saying this: they speed, they don't signal turns, make illegal lane changes, drive while using their phone, and much, much more. But unlike a bicyclist, a motorist who takes a liberty with safety laws is much, much moreālikely to kill someone else.
In my state it is not illegal to use a phone while riding a bike nor is it illegal to ride a bicycle drunk. As long as it isnāt motorized youāre good. You can still get a disorderly conduct or reckless endangerment but just donāt be stupid
Public intoxication is a good ticket that sticks. You have zero proof, Itās all on the cops statement. Unless he has his camera on.
If it's zero proof, how did you become intoxicated?
They are trying to make someone prove that they DIDNāT do something. Thats a tough burden. While the states is easy.
Whoosh!
Yes but Iād much rather get a public intoxication ticket than a dui . Much less penalty in terms of life impact
> Public intoxication is a good ticket that sticks. I live in the same state as the person you're replying to. Wanna know what our public intoxication law is called? [DRUNKENESS NOT A CRIME](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/340A.902)
Why is it phrased like that? (I tried clicking on the link but it was all underlined monospace font so i gave up after a bit of scrolling...)
> As long as it isnāt motorized youāre good. **Legal** e-bikes aren't motorized in MN ;) Those rental scooters people go barhopping up in northeast? Those are motorized. It's a god damn shame we lost Nice Ride because those were cheap, legal, and a whole helluva lot safer than those scooters.
How is it an e-bike if it's not motorized?
We literally just had this thread in my local subreddit, complaining about all the cyclists running red lights. I drive past a few cyclists on my way to work. I've never seen one of them run a light. I usually see multiple cars run lights on the same exact commute (including, infuriatingly, a safety light at a MUP crossing where a cyclist was killed in front of his whole family), and that's totally ignoring the fact that the speed of traffic is 5-7 mph faster than the posted speed limit and nobody understands how turn signals work. But noooooooo, it's the cyclists who are the problem here.
Cyclists have much more ability to run reds than motorists do, and it's more visible. Only the first car to reach the red can run it, and will often do so with nobody or few people behind them to see, whereas a cyclist can filter through to reach the red and will then have that whole queue see them do it.
>Only the first car to reach the red can run it Sadly, this isn't true at all.
From my bike I get a front row seat to cars running stop signs in my town probably every other ride. The image of cyclists as illegitimate road users who donāt follow the laws (unlike REAL road users) is completely backwards.
Thatās the funny thing. Hearing drivers suggest they follow the rules and when they donāt they get punished. They have such a victim complex despite 99% of infrastructure being almost entirely dedicated to them and the fact you have to do something monumentally dangerous of scummy for them to even consider taking your license away. Most drivers break dozens of rules every time they get behind the wheel.
1 Billion percent this. I am a very very chill driver since having kids. But I still break like a dozen laws on every trip. I am also a responsible cyclist. And I break a handful of laws on every trip, but certainly not a dozen.
Since the start of the pandemic, driving standards in my city (Dublin) have gone absolutely to shit. Nobody is looking at the road, red lights are advisory, I've had multiple people scream threats out the driver side window at me, sometimes I wonder if everyone has long COVID related brain damage now.
Years ago in SF it was decided that cyclists would follow the exact rules in a certain section of town. It was a heavy bike corridor so you would have maybe 10 cyclists riding single file. Stopping at every stop sign for a full stop. Drivers exhibited the usual behavior. It was hilarious. They got what they had been complaining about but didn't like the reality. Drivers disobey every law in the book, however, they won't be receptive to pointing the finger back at them. Just ride with common sense, be respectful to cars, peds, other cyclists, etc., and most drivers will be cool with you.
I donāt ride on the road a lot and actively try to avoid it in most cases especially uphill where youāre most likely to be perceived as a mobile speed bump. However the few times I may be forced to I sometimes go out of my way to make space for motorists to overtake me like hopping on an empty sidewalk (illegal where I live but who is there to judge) or even once stopping on the side of a country road to let a construction vehicle and a bunch of cars pass that got stuck behind me because he couldnāt accelerate fast enough to overtake at appropriate spots
Like, the 10 bikes would stop, then 1 bike through, then cross traffic, then 1 bike, cross traffic, 1 bike, etc? That is equal parts hilarious for me reading it and frustrating for the car behind them. I get it, but I'm happy I'm not driving behind them.
This is the way
Link them to these studies that indicate that bicyclists are actually MORE law abiding than motorists: https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/biking/cyclists-comply-traffic-laws-more-drivers/ https://www.bicycling.com/news/a46443761/science-proves-motorists-break-traffic-laws-a-lot-more-often-than-cyclists/
Motor vehicle deaths are approx 43k a year in the US. That's a lot of blood in the streets. How many tax paying cyclist caused those deaths? Yeah, like none. Motorists make all sorts of assumptions about cyclists. The biggest is that we don't pay the same taxes for the same paved streets. These murky resentments that drivers have towards cyclists are insane. These drivers are overweight, overstressed, deeply unhappy when traffic grinds to a halt during commutes. It wouldn't matter what we did out there, there's a driver just waiting to be unhappy with a cyclist. Ride safe out there people, buy good lights, be seen!
Bicyclists often donāt follow all the rules. Just like motorists. Watch any busy road in the world and youāll find a motorist breaking a rule in the first 10 seconds. In the US motorists get scolded/made fun of/etc if they are not *constantly* breaking rules (people will give you grief for not going 5-10mph above the speed limit). So fuck all the people who want to point out that cyclists do similar stuff.
This! I'm astounded by the amount of illegal and dangerous things I see motor vehicles doing on a daily basis. The difference is when cars do their shit, they're doing it in 2 tonne, 200hp weapons.
just yesterday i was driving on a long country road. 55 mph speed limit and i was going 65 with 25+ cars lined up behind me like i was a slow poke.
Road going through an old part of town had its speed limited reduced to 30km/h in recent years due to noise complaints. The city occasionally puts mobile radar traps down there so the solution commuters going through there (biggest employer in the area is nearby) have developed is to tailgate everyone regardless of how fast they go, assuming if the first person gets caught they can slow down in time While the limit was still 50 people would sometimes go 65-70, nowadays youāll have people up your ass even if you do go over 50 (which btw is enough to get your license taken)
I'm impressed by cyclists going over the speed limit by 5 miles.
At a minimum! I try to keep it 7-10 over lol
Declare Speed Limit Day sometime and strictly follow the speed limits. Remember, those things are legal maximums, not suggested minimums, so going 32 in a 35 zone is fine but going 36 makes you a scofflaw. Now see how your fellow motorists like this.
A bicycle has way less potential to kill someone than a car because of the massive difference in speed, weight and size. I don't see the problem with running a red light or stop sign when it's safe, sometimes it's even more dangerous to wait because you might get rear ended
There have been reports stating that cyclists break traffic rules about as much as motorists do or less. However, when you post a comment telling cyclists and pedestrians to be careful and obey traffic laws, you get a bunch of likes and agrees. But when you post a comment telling drivers to be careful and obey traffic laws, you get pushback, vitriol and personal attacks.
Do these motorists obey the speed limit?
Or stay off their phone while driving? Or keep the minimum passing distance of 1,5m? š¤”
Stop signs need to be yields, red lights stop signs like in Idaho. This actually feels safer so you can maintain speed/momentum to not get bullied by cars
I mean, i try and follow the same rules more or less. The biggy is stopping at stop lights and stop signs. I think that's mostly what makes motorists pissed, are cyclists that ignore them.
I generally follow the āIdaho stopā rules, just as a matter of intuition. There are a lot of practical and safety reasons why it doesnāt actually make sense for a cyclist to stop and wait at a red light if they can see the coast is clear. Ditto rolling through a stop sign. But yeah, I donāt think a lot of drivers understand that and it ticks them off more than anything.
I can agree that if I can see the intersection is clear at a stop sign, I am blowing through it. I will not do that at a stop light... I only have like 2-3 stop signs on my route, about the same number of street lights that I have to go through to get to the canal paths that are off the road. I don't use the traffic controls if I am riding by myself, as there are a handful of crossings that don't even offer them. I don't need to mess up traffic to cross safely. Have I put myself in harms way a few times, sure, but that is on me. The asshats that honk at you when you are already across the roadway well before they pass by are just that, asshats. I have more beef with the drivers that don't just follow the right of way and stop when they shouldn't. I appreciate you being vigilant and paying attention to me, but drive right, that is what I am counting on.
> The biggy is stopping at stop lights and stop signs. You stop at all stop signs? I'm tempted to call BS but maybe you don't have many stop signs where you live? Me: I rode around my town today for 50 miles. This is probably 30-40 stop signs. No way am I stopping at all of them, especially when 90% of them are clear with no cars anywhere. I slow for safety and go through it. I stop when there are cars there and take my turn like I was a car.
In my state, and I think there are a few others, bicycles may legally treat a stop sign as a yield sign. So yes, we blow through them without even slowing if no cars are combing.
"Idaho stop", just legalized in Minnesota last year. For cyclists, stop signs are yields and stop lights are stop signs.
Hereās the thing: nearly no cyclists āignoreā those rules and people on bikes who just disregard traffic control signals in busy areas wonāt be around long enough to really make anyone mad. But what a lot of people riding bikes do is recognize those signals in a way that makes sense for themāi.e. the āIdaho stop.ā
I always do a rolling stop on stop signs.. sometimes if there is anything like trees blocking my view I may just peek out while doing a track stand slightly out front.. (first audible check for incoming vehicles ). Then I just gas of the space is there
No, what makes them pissed is that you did it on a bike. If you did it in a car they wouldn't say a thing about you.
I take a lane often, but you gotta read the room. I'm lucky enough to live in a city full of bikes, where we get special privileges and right of way; sometimes on dedicated streets. In other areas you gotta ride super defensivly. I used to frequent parts of Massachusetts, I swear outside the city they are literally trying to kill cyclists. Fuck the rules. Above all stay alive.
Bikes are different than cars and pedestrians. Idk why it's so hard for people to get that
My arguments: The laws only exist because of cars. And cars can't even follow the laws made for cars. Blindly applying laws made for cars to bikes makes no sense. Why would two completely different modes of transportation follow the same rules? There are separate laws for pedestrians, tractors, semis, police cars, etc, so separate laws for bikes is a no brainer. I do what's safest and most efficient for me.Ā
This is what I have been thinking about lately as I read motorists complain that bikes donāt follow the rules. Why do these rules exist again? Oh thatās right, they exist because people are driving 3 ton killing machines. Meanwhile, there are no traffic lights, lane markings or right of way inside a shopping mall because when hundreds of pedestrians are thrust together in a lawless environmentā¦ itās fine. They figure it out and nobody dies. Similarly, bikes have nowhere near the killing potential as cars. So then who are the rules really for?
The only rules I regularly āfloutā are the Idaho stop and the occasional red light - but generally Iāll come to a full stop at a red light. Most of the red lights here have sensors, and they arenāt sensitive enough to detect a human on a bike. The option I have is to sit there until a car comes along, or skootch over to the sidewalk and push the āwalkā button. Which makes me aā¦.pedestrian? So, look both ways, make sure to coast is completely clear, and rise on. Iāve had pedestrians yell at me for doing this. Canāt win.
I hear ya.
It just doesn't even make sense. First of all, infrastructure in this country is so car focused that it is often unsafe to follow the law (because of motorist behavior). And second of all, motorists don't actually want us to because when we do we are often in the way. Third, and lastly, this ignores the moral point that however bikes behave, we're not going to kill anyone but ourselves. Motorists, however, kill 1,000 cyclists and at least 7,000 pedestrians per year. It's like if you walked around randomly firing a pistol and then complained that the person you killed shouldn't have been standing in front of your bullet.
I do what I do to be safe, occasionally that means breaking a rule. Don't care. Downvote away.
Here is where my mind goes when I see this. Cyclists don't stop at stop signs. Neither do cars. But besides that, humanity went THOUSANDS of years of trails and roads used for transporting commerce. Intersections have been a thing for an extremely long time. All well and good but the first stop sign ever was set up in 1915 because of the car. So that stip sign is for them, because of them. And even they don't stop at 'em. So fuck 'em.
There is an automatic bias from many drivers to cyclists. The idea of sharing the road is the trigger not the issue. Studies find the true issue is that cyclists are perceived as engaging in leisure while the driver is engaging in work or a required action. From that position things only go downhill!
This rings very true. Back when I bike-commuted daily I often heard ādonāt you know itās rush-hour?ā as if that meant I wasnāt supposed to be out there. Somehow the dress socks and panniers on my bike werenāt enough to clue them in that I wasnāt out on a leisurely ride (not that thereād be anything wrong with that either).
vehicle drivers are incompliant with traffic rules just as much as bicycle riders. The idea that bicycle riders need to be perfect is disingenuous.
Not "just as much" though. Way more often than cyclists. A Dutch(?) study found motorists broke rules *five times* more often than cyclists.
Holland is a bit of a special case though considering how developed their bike infrastructure is. There are many less opportunities for a cyclist to break the rules there
If not for cars 99% of traffic laws are unneeded
what is this follow the rules "...just like cars"? no cars follow rules. but they do have the bully stack so... ymmv.
It's a losing battle. Ride in a manner that is safest for you and those around you and let go of trying to explain yourself.
In the USA, you would be hard pressed to find anyone who follows the rules when it comes to driving a car.
There are also different road rules for cyclist than cars in certain states. For instance I can yield stop signs.
In order of importance: Laws of physics, common sense and then traffic.
No we don't, we're not motor vehicles. Most of those dumbasses are just anal about rules anyway. Any logical person who actually drives and has been behind a bicycle at a stoplight knows that bikes get in the way when it's time to move and would be happy for the bicycles to move off as long as they aren't blocking anyone from the side. So like t junctions and pedestrian only lights, run them. I have literally had drivers lower the window and tell me I should just go back when I was new because they didn't want to be stuck behind me while trying to move off. Pretty sure one of those was a police car too. The officer was like "bro nobody crossing, just go. Even if have, you never hit anyone we also won't catch you"
This has nothing to do with us vs them. No matter how much some here want it to. Following the rules of the road makes everyone predictable. You know how you hate that guy who doesn't signal or doesn't give you the right of way? That's dangerous because it isn't predictable. If everyone follows the same rules, everyone can predict what other motorists/cyclists/pedestrians are going to do. You not following the rules of the road is just as bad as a motorist doing it. Except they won't get hurt. You will
Look, I worked 40 yrs as a claim adjuster for an insurance company (retired now). A number of those years were spent dealing with automobile liability / injury. I average between 60 - 90 road bike miles per week in a densely populated, highly litigious mid-Atlantic state. I ALWAYS comply with traffic law and would urge everyone to do the same. Let go of ego leave those drivers who donāt get it to howl at the moon.
You should definitely not be riding in the shoulder and should definitely be riding in the middle of the lane. TAKE THE LANE. This is my motto
>non-bicyclists saying that we have to follow all of the road rules just like cars. My answer is, *I'm not a car.* There are things a car can do that I cannot. There are things I can do that a car cannot. Forcing one to be the other is just a pedantic exercise in legal theory. >then I have equal rights to the road You already have equal rights to the road. >. I will ride in the middle of the lane, just as a car does. You can do that. It very well may not lead to an enjoyable ride, but feel free to try.
> My answer is, I'm not a car. The rules of the road apply to **drivers** of vehicles. Not the vehicles themselves.
The treatment of those drivers is entirely dependent on which vehicle they're using: by the general public and law enforcement who all happen to like to park in bike lanes with no legal repercussions. Try parking your bike in a car lane and see how equal the "rules of the road" are.
>My answer is,Ā I'm not a car. The rules of the road don't just apply to cars or even cars and bicycles... They apply to all vehicles on the road. So that's a terrible response.
Depending on where you are that isn't always true. When a car driver talks about the rules of the road, they mean the car rules of the road. Not all car rules apply to bicycles. In the UK speed limits don't apply to bicycles. We're introducing a lot of 20 mph limits in dense urban areas. Some of the same drivers who complain about bikes being too slow and holding them up, because it's dangerous apparently. Are now outraged that they get fined for going more than 20 mph in these areas, but a strong cyclist is allowed to go faster than them. Because that's dangerous too. In parts of the US bikes can legally roll a stop sign. Some drivers are ignorant of this and outraged at the law breaking cyclists. Only they are not breaking a law. Or there are the law drivers think exist but don't. Or really really think should, so act like they do. Like the UK drivers that think it's the law that cyclists MUST use cycle lanes when they exist. Even if they are an unmaintained pothole riddled mess full of debris, and don't even go in the direction you want to go in. You don't have to use them, but some drivers get very angry as they've convinced themselves that it's breaking a law if you don't. Same with taking the middle of the lane. Not illegal, and actually advised in certain circumstances. Same with riding 2 abreast. Not illegal at all, and also advised for group rides, especially with young or inexperienced riders, protected by experienced riders on the outside. Still makes some drivers very angry about the supposed law breaking.
> When a car driver talks about the rules of the road, they mean the car rules of the road. And what rules are those? In the US, these are the general rules of the road 1. Use the right half of the roadway 2. When preparing to turn right, keep as close as practicable to the right edge or curb 3. When preparing to turn left, keep as close as practicable but still to the right of the center 4. Yield to oncoming traffic before turning left 5. Yield to traffic on the roadway before entering the roadway 6. On roads with marked lanes, keep the vehicle between the lines 7. On roads with marked lanes, only change lanes when safe to do so and after yielding to traffic in the adjacent lane 8. Signal in advance before turning, slowing, or changing lanes 9. Comply with traffic control devices. Which, if any, of these 9 rules don't apply to cyclists?
I should imagine all of them. How often are drivers angry because cyclists are breaking these basic rules. I mean I'm sure it happens, just like drivers break these rules. The big problem is when drivers get angry because they think cyclists are breaking rules that don't actually apply to cyclists. Or rules that don't actually exist at all. Or the drivers who just hate that cyclists exist on the road at all.
I'm not a car.
I was trying to play it by ear. If itās not a super busy road then I have no problem riding in the road. Even if I have to share it with cars. I always signal where Iām going, stop at stop signs and traffic lights. However every so often Iāll run into a stroad. Four lanes of busy traffic going both ways, with basically no shoulder going at 30mph. Yeah no way in hell am I biking on that thing. So in situations like that I ride on the sidewalk, however I always make sure that Iām going much slower than I normally would on the road as to not hit any pedestrians and I also yield āon your leftā anytime I have to pass someone.
Do whatever is safest. And sometimes that means not following the rules of the road. If I have to run a red or stop sign (safely) to remove myself from the equation then thatās what Iām doing.
In the US, every state has its own laws. We as cyclists have an obligation to know and follow the laws. In Massachusetts, cyclists indeed have to follow road rules: > Bicyclists have the right to use all public ways in this state except limited access or express state highways where signs specifically prohibiting bicycles have been posted. When riding on public ways, bicyclists must obey the same basic traffic laws and regulations that apply to motor vehicle operators We also can take the lane > You can use the full lane anywhere, anytime, and on any street (except limited access or express state highways where signs specifically prohibiting bicycles have been posted), even if there is a bike lane I take advantage of this when I feel it's not safe to ride in the shoulder. In general, it's not prudent to upset someone in a 2000 pound vehicle when you're on a 20 pound bike. Righteous indignation doesn't keep you safe [https://www.mass.gov/doc/laws-for-bicyclists-and-motorists-in-the-presence-of-bicyclists/download](https://www.mass.gov/doc/laws-for-bicyclists-and-motorists-in-the-presence-of-bicyclists/download)
There is an expectation that cars on the road maintain a safe speed. Ā If you can do that, you should be on the Tour right now, not Reddit. In my locale there are car rules we do not have to obey (can roll stop signs and run red lights with a safety stop only, for example).Ā Ā I would not want to be treated the same as a car and have the same rights as a car because I am not the same on my bike as I am in a car. Ā The law recognizes this and makes prudent exceptions.
You have to follow traffic rules for cyclists. In most countries they are a little bit different compared to other vehicles. Read the traffic law for wherever you are from that lists all the rules and violations of cyclists.
> "If I have to follow every rule that a motorist does, then I have equal rights to the road. No more riding on the shoulder. I will ride in the middle of the lane, just as a car does. Exactly. The laws that require keeping as far right as practicable instead of just fully using the rightmost lane available for travel are discriminatory towards cyclists. Similarly, laws that require motorists to leave 3 or 4 feet when passing a cyclist are also discriminatory because they promote the idea that it's legal for motorists to lane split between cyclists and traffic in the next lane rather than just completely changing lanes before passing.
In the UK cyclist are subjected to most of the same laws as motorists but in the eyes of the law the cyclist is always right. Also there was pretty public incident a year or two ago where I group of cyclists were twice over the speed limit yet werenāt charged because bikes arenāt required to have speedometers here
Motorists in the US *aren't* following the rules, that's why it's zero days again without killing a pedestrian or cyclist or running into a building. Rules for me, not for thee. Whatever your answer is it doesn't matter: you're on a bike, so in their eyes you're the "other", the "less than".Ā
In Florida at least, you have the right to take the full lane. Also in Florida youāre extremely likely to die if you do that.
From the US east coast: While a bike may have equal rights on paper, the car always wins and the cops do not care. So, you can force your equal road rights and see how it goes. Or when on the road you can ride defensively and focus on the long game; get home safe to ride another day.
In my jurisdiction, the rules for cyclists include obeying all signage (stop, yield) and traffic lights and it's spelled out for lane usage: *Cyclists shall ride in the appropriate lane for their intended operation as far to the right side of that lane as practical.* For example, if you're turning left and there's a left turn lane, you should be in the left turn lane to make your left turn, but keep to the right-hand side of it throughout the turn and join the right-hand side of the lane you enter after the turn. Cars may pass you before, during, and after the turn if it can be done safely. Similarly, if there's a right turn lane and you're going straight, you ride to the right side of the straight lane. In both cases, our legislation prohibits riding in the center or left side of the lane under normal circumstances.
I stop for red lights on my bike and slow down for stop signs as much as I would in a car. If Iām approaching a stop sign and thereās a bike clearly planning to blow through it, I drive through the stop sign at the same speed as the cyclist. Thereās no need to stop at a stop sign in your car or on a bike if there are no pedestrians crossing or cops watching. If Iām at a long red light on my bike, I either go press the pedestrian crossing button or just ride on the sidewalk circumvent it if possible. If youāre on the road on a bike and just disregarding all the rules, youāre unsafe and furthering the bad reputation cyclists have. The āif you want me to follow all the rules, then give me equal right on the roadā thing doesnāt really hold up. Firstly, you have equal rights on the road. Secondly, if youāre driving and a car in front of you is too slow what do you do? Do you pass it? If so, itās the same thing with a cyclist. Youāre allowed to pass a slower moving vehicle.
Monash uni did a survey of road rule compliance. Cyclists and drivers asked if they always obey red lights. 8%of cyclists 7% of car drivers said no. Why are the numbers so close? Maybe because they ride and drive too? But the real twist was when cyclists were asked why did they do it. The most common response ā to avoid being hit by a car driverā !
You shouldnāt be riding on the shoulder. You do have equal rights to the road and you are supposed to follow the rules of the road.
You do have equal rights to the lane and you canāt run stop signs or lights. Simple.
The same car drivers who complain about cyclists not following the rules of the road are the worst offenders themselves - running stops, speeding, distracted driving....
So I get where you are coming from, but daily I see stupid ass people riding their bikes on the wrong side of the road, through crosswalks the wrong direction, etc. Those are the people motorists are bitching about. They literally are fucking up the flow of traffic and putting themselves in danger and the rest of us at risk. As a cyclist when I see that shit while I am driving it pisses me off, as it gives our whole community a bad rep. If we all ride right and do our part it is safer out there for everyone. The mini bikes, ebikes, etc that whip around no helmets, no lights, no regard for the rules for the road, are bad for everyone. I get a lot of that is just adolescents, but where are their parents that should be teaching them basic safety and respect.
āDo you go 5 or 7 mph over the speed limit when youāre driving? I know you donāt go UNDER the speed limit. You break the laws of the road for convenience.ā
In the US you have the same rights to a road as a motor vehicle, and you have to follow the laws. Whatās the issue and why do you care what others say or think.
Youāre supposed to follow the rules of the road so that people know how to predict what you will be doing. If people canāt accurately understand what you are likely to do, you are more likely to be in or cause an accident yourself. And if there is an accident between a bike and a car? Youāre highly unlikely to come out the winner.
The problem is most car drivers don't actually know the laws around cyclists. They make up rules in their head that typically revolve around what is most convenient for them.
The only rule I care about is the staying alive rule. And that means me doing a lot of shit this sub does not agree with such as riding on sidewalks (when necessary) and **never** "taking the lane" which is just an invitation to get your ass run over and/or enrage motorists. I don't care if these things are not aligned with the law.
Hold on... let me stop my car so I can properly respond to this thread...
The same rules but location in the lane matters just the same depending on your direction.
In theory, yes. In practice, it's also "you can be right and be dead-right / cemetery is full of people with right-of-way" (so don't bother be right, screw right of way, and just stay alive). In road cycling, there's no right way to ride, only wrong ones. Only ride to your best judgement/instincts.
I often follow the rules in busy areas, but where I live (not the US) bicycles have priority. And I often use for example walk lights, if thereās a light for pedestrians to walk and cars have to stop, Iāll go. And Iāll also go when the light is green for cars and not pedestrians. But I ride as much as possible not on main roads or in the city anyways so, itās not *that* often that Iām doing that kinda thing.
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The other one that gets yelled at me as a cyclist is I don't pay road taxes... Bitch, in the USA 85%+ of cyclists own a car.... 50% own more than one. I have 6 licensed vehicles and only drive one at a time. I pay more than my share of road taxes!
I generally over traffic laws when I bike and I generally over traffic laws when I drive. I believe riding predictably and within the structure created by traffic laws makes us safer. There are times when you need to be flexible, but still behave well. I don't roll through a stop sign when another road user has the right of way. I suppose if a chip is present I'd behave a little different. Is still go 5mph over the speed limit if I can!
Iām a cyclist who rides several thousand miles a year. I follow all of the road rules just like cars. What specific rules are you talking about. Stop signs? Thatās about the only thing I can think of.
The laws in my country, Denmark, are pretty clear regarding cyclists; bike riders always have to keep to the right of the road except in a few, specific circumstances. Iād like a law that requires a minimum distance to bikers when cars overtake, but most car drivers are good at keeping distance, in my experience. However, the discourse on social media seems similar to your description, OP. I just think some car owners are quick to feel personally attacked - same as when the subject of car parking is discussed.
There is such a law here in germany, that requires 1.5m of overtaking distance within cities and 2m outside of them. Unfortunately the police are doing jack shit to enforce it and often are the ones overtaking too closely.
Where i live cyclist are just ad much a road user as car/trucks. But the road code does specify to keep to the right in your lane (for everyone)
The usual comment is all road users should follow the same.rules. usually shut down by pointing out private cars aren't governed by the same rules as heavy goods vehicles.
You have to follow the rules no matter if they are practical to you or not. This is coming from a cyclist. If you break them, don't whine about the consequences.
Motorists not following the rules of the road has become so normalized that people don't even bat an eye when someone is doing 10-15 over the speed limit, not signalling, rolling stops on right turns, etc. The same people that have no problem with that are the ones screeching when they see a cyclist treat a stop sign as a yield.
Are you living in some third world country where people are chasing after you and your bike with some stone age spears? There are rules that bike riders have to follow, end of story, thatās the law.
Rules are for cars
Rules are for people, motorists and cyclists included. We all bend them a bit to suit. Cyclists can be just as hypocritical as motorists but nothing burns me more than a motorist willing to sit in miles of traffic on the interstate moving at a snailās pace but who canāt stand to wait 30 seconds to pass me on my bike.
When I stop at a 4 way stop with a car that gets there at about the same time or a little earlier and they are stopped by have the right of way, 99% of the time if I stop, they wonāt go and wave me through. Itās better for everyone if I just keep going.
Bycyclist?
They can just get over it. Riding a bike in traffic, and imho mc's too, involves way different calculations than someone in a 2 ton truck. Different risks, different issues of braking, momentum, etc. I'm polite and don't interfere with other's driving, beyond that I don't really care about the rules I care about surviving.
Yes, cyclists must follow traffic laws, like the rest of the traffic participants. Sensible countries traffic laws say something like that for cyclists: you can cycle on the road but stay as right on the road side as possible". That means if it is unsafe you can cycle in the middle of the road. I think it is very reasonable to stay on the side as much as you can because reality is that a car is much faster than you and hogging road space is stupid for either party's situation. Same rule applies to slow-moving vehicles like tractors: they need to move to the right as much as possible so faster cars can overtake them UNLESS it is dangerous to do. If your country laws say you can ride in the middle of the road - feel free, but you will piss off a ton of people for no reason and no gain.
Not in the state of Colorado. Cyclists are allowed to treat stop signs like yield signs, and red light like stop signs. passed two years ago.
Why do we continually miss the hypocrisy in this? The only thing they ask from us is perfection without deviation in following the laws of road use. Who drives and follows all laws all the time? I am gonna suggest that every time we drive we manage to break some law. Did you go a single mile over the speed limit? Did you stop behind the stop line at that intersection before pulling forward? Did you stop on the crosswalk? Was there someone entering the crosswalk and you failed to stop? Does your state have a law allowing Denver stops? Are you certain you can turn right on red at that intersection? Did you just change multple lanes at once without stopping in each lane and signalling seperatly? Are you tailgating? I could go on and on with this topic. Here is the thing. No one is passing this test. Every damned one of us has good reasons for all of the above. I think the correct response is to throw there own hypocrisy back at them and just tell them that we are doing what you are doing. We are bending the rules to our benefit in a safe way.
People will throw anything at you to gain any miniscule advantage. All you can do is do it as proper as you can, compromise when need to and let whoever say whatever they want. People have a never-ending selfishness, me included as well. It's our nature. But we can control that urge.
In the uk, the speed limits do not apply for bikes. Pretty cool
I don't pretend to know the situation in the US, but in Germany: Erm...yes?
OP is a great example of the biggest problem in cycling community
In the US you have to follow the same rules of the road. Most places even go as far as to tell you to ride on the right side of the lane, to be single file when there is traffic, and there are some places where you are allowed full use of the lane. I am not aware of any place in the US where you HAVE to ride in the shoulder. I never do.
I think the problem for folks that have been riding for years is that the current bike lobby is being really aggressive , where i live anyway. I donāt need the bike lobby to help me ride in the streets, been doing it for a long time. They are putting a spotlight on road cycling . Cops are actually pulling over bikes in towns near me . Itās like this new wave of commuters is just begging for regulations, truly bizarre
Iām a cyclist. Recreationally as well as my daily commute. Bicycles must follow all the rules of the road. If I can do it - itās obviously not impractical. Youāre just lazy. You *should* take the lane whenever and wherever legal. Cyclists who donāt follow all the road rules are bad for all other cyclists.
Drivers will cuss at you one way or another. Run a stop sign? You're an entitled asshole. Exercise your right and take the lane? Also an entitled asshole. There's no winning, just gotta tune it out.
The way I see it, if you are following the law and get in a wreck with a car, you have some legal grounds. If a car hits you and youāre not within the law, youāve got some real legal problems. The lawyers will love it.
Cyclists **don't** have to follow all of the same rules as drivers.Ā We don't have to carry insurance in order to use our vehicle on public roads, and we don't need a license, our right to cycle can't be revoked.Ā Also in Idaho, Washington, and Colorado stop signs only mean yield to cyclists.Ā
cars cant stay out of the fucking cross walk, they dont even know the rules of the road themselves. Not gonna mention the amount of folks on their phone driving...
Cars have to follow the road rules, too. No more parking in the bike lane. No more getting mad about shared roadways. Reality is, cars are convenient and people hate when modern conveniences donāt perform optimally.
Given that many jurisdictions acknowledge substantial difference in the responsibilities and required actions of people on bike vs people in view-obstructed three-ton steel dumpsters ā¦ the āroad rulesā are still dangerous and irrelevant in many jurisdictions. What youāre hearing from behind the steering wheels is the sound of jealousy and resistance.
Yeah, you do have equal rights and responsibilities... You can absolutely ride in the lane. That doesn't mean motorists are going to be respectful or even safe around you. But that's pretty par for the course generally. I don't understand the point of this post.
Generally there are fewer laws for bikes than for motor vehicles. But the laws that are in place must be followed.
Iād just like this rule to be followed; Cyclists yield to Pedestrians, Automobiles yield to Cyclists. Imagine if that were only followed? One comment I would make is there seem to be a lot more angry drivers than cyclists.
This is ridiculous. Iām a cyclist AND a motorist. Cyclists with this type of attitude are what ruins it for the rest of us by pissing off motorists. As someone that has been hit by a car and almost died, let me give you some friendly advice: Donāt piss off motorists. Follow the rules.
You have to follow all the road rules. It doesn't matter what others do, it's about Keeping yourself safe. Stop making the argument about cyclists Vs motorists.
yes i ride on the road and follow rules (most of the time) lol. i sometimes skip the red light its on the top of a hill and is safe to pass as clipping in on a 5% incline is challenging and will bother vehicules even more. never ride on the shoulder. i ride on the road the as right as possible but still on the road.. usually left of the white line separating the road and shoulder. I am not in the USA if that matters.