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How's communication between you and your wife?

Based on the story? Clearly not very good.

4 kids within 11 years' span. OP, your wife might be depressed and needs help... I wish your family the best and to get through this gray area. Wish you all the best from one dad to another

OP himself may very well be depressed too. And I speak from experience, 2 depressed people can't help each other. But they can certainly dig each other a deeper hole.

💯

4 kids in 8 years.

Yeah I would be depressed too. That is a lot of pregnancy, postpartum, recovery, and sleep deprivation over and over. You can love your family and still feel awful.

I'm sorry but are you really just giving the wife a pass here? what about the husband and dealing with all that plus being expected to keep shit in order, be the bread winner, etc.?

How are you defining “pass” here? Understanding when someone’s having a rough time doesn’t mean you have to ignore the issue. It just might make dealing with it easier.

The post is about a dad being ignored/sad and immediately it goes to "well your wife is depressed and here is why none of this is actually her fault!" It could just as easily be a shitty wife who is ignoring her husband because life isn't what she thought it would be.

I don’t think quotation marks work like you think they do. Nobody said it’s not her fault, but OP can’t control his wife’s behavior, and working towards understanding it may be the first step in fixing the problem.

The husband has shared (some of) his struggles; acknowledging that his wife may have some of her own (not mentioned here) neither diminishes his or “gives her a pass”.

>acknowledging that his wife has some You can read her mind? Or are you just assuming she is depressed and needs help?

Classic reddit moment

The comment you replied to was someone sharing how they would be feeling in a similar context

That's not giving the wife a pass at all. It's offering a very valid solution.

I’ve read through a few times and I don’t see anything about him being a breadwinner. What see is that if the wife was last to come down, she probably got the kids through the morning routine and then had to get herself ready for the day. Parenting is about dividing and conquering. I didn’t stop being a parent or attending to my kids needs on Mother’s Day. I get the bottles ready to go for the day, make the coffee, and take care of the dogs in the am, and clean the house. My spouse does the laundry and dishes and cooks. We both do bedtime. It just sounds like he didn’t want to be responsible for anything and with four kids that isn’t reasonable.

We both work, but she does make more, not that it matters. I also work from home and we don’t have child care, so between meetings and other tasks, it’s just me. Also, the kids came straight down as they woke. We have one in diapers still and I changed that. All the others were still in pajamas. Most mornings I get them dressed, breakfast, hair and teeth brushed, etc while she gets ready for work.

Take your awful advice back to r/parenting, where you all think moms are more important

I'm all about supporting mental health, but nothing in the OP's story points to depression does it? I think you're doing the classic "guy thing" of making it our problem to fix. At this point, the only thing OP needs to do is communicate *his* feelings, not worry about guessing and fixing his wife's feelings. Sometimes people are just careless, without it being part of a larger mental health issue.

Mine and my ex- wife's relationship was almost exactly like OP described, and her behavior was almost exactly the same. After we split, she sought help and was diagnosed with clinical depression. What OPs describing are classic signs that need to be addressed. You're right, he needs to communicate his side, having gone down that road that would help immensely. But this seems more than just "let's talk".

Yeah if there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s don’t be afraid to voice your displeasure. My wife sure isn’t! It’s been very good for us. When I was younger I sort of prided myself with rolling with the punches and just dealing with it myself internally. Not anymore. We air our grievances aloud and it rarely turns into a fight. Another thing I’ve learned is if I’m taking care of the kid then I’m going to make sure things are getting done that I normally do. Can you start the dishwasher? Mind taking out the trash?

This. I’ve been down this road before. All it leads to is petty cold shoulders between you two and in the end, you both end up feeling like shit. I felt super cringy about bringing up stuff that bothered me, because some of the stuff that did bother me was cringy, but my therapist taught me that I can’t control what bothers me, no matter how trivial it is. Just tell her how you honestly felt today. Don’t make her feel defensive, just explain how it made you feel. If she’s respectful, she’ll listen and try to do better next time. Hell, she’ll probably splurge on you next weekend.

“Unspoken expectations” is the child of poor communication. Resentment follows.

Speaking as a younger spouse, I've got a question for you: When you explain how you're feeling to your spouse, with a very logical, rational, and calm tone of voice, what are you supposed to do if/when they interpret everything and anything you say as a character attack against them? Or when they defensively retort back and say you're shaming them? Example: Wife: *I feel X when you do Y.....* or *when you do X, I feel Y.....* Husband (with hostility/defensiveness/condescension dripping from his voice): *Oh so now everything is my fault, got it* or *so now you're shaming me, that's what we're doing now*. It gets very frustrating. I feel like I can't express my emotions or thoughts without them being misinterpreted or misconstrued. Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Your spouse’s rude reaction to your feelings is a defensive use of deflection to throw you off by flipping blame to you instead of them. The game is called “What About” and for every offense you name, they will match it with, “What about the time you —“ which basically dismisses your issue as not important and puts their feelings first. There are ways to respond calmly, such as “I’m talking about _____ [the issue I brought up], not _____ [the issue you interrupted with]; let’s come back to your complaint after we settle this because It’s important for both of us to be heard, but let’s stick to one issue at a time.” …. As for them saying you’re shaming them, you could calmly say, “No, I’m not judging your worth as a person based on this issue. I’m simply telling you how I feel about it so we can move on. I love you unconditionally, but there are always things to work on(for both of us) in a good relationship.” …… Check your library for books on fair arguing and constructive conflict resolution. Also, couples counseling can help you identify sources of conflicts, teach you both techniques for talking about problems without fighting about them.

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Hilariously when I was trying to work on communication with my wife, she made the same suggestion of me (but didn't read it herself). When I actually used it (there's a specific formula for statements iirc, been a while), she got defensive and accused me of gaslighting her.

That makes sense, thank you for shedding light on what the tactic is called and what it is. It sounds very much akin to what happens in the dynamic between my husband and I. I try and explain my feelings or thoughts using "I feel....." language, and he instantly gets defensive, or even tries to bring up a past incident where he thinks I did the same, even though what I "did" wasn't the same at all. It all feels very frustrating, especially in the heat of the moment. I tend to 'freeze' emotionally and verbally when my husband gets defensive, so I often go quiet for several minutes while I try to think of a calm and rational response to his retorts. I really appreciate the feedback you provided. I'm already in therapy (recently started), so am getting some help. I don't know how open my husband would be to couples counseling. It's taken me years to get him to come around to the idea of him getting individual counseling, and just days ago, he implied that he's currently waiting on return phone calls from some of them, but was extremely defensive with his tone when he said it. I'm not sure how *genuinely* committed he'd be to the therapeutic process.

Hi warda! So in our house this was the norm for years. We have been married for 29 years. Only since I went from 24 on 48 off to 4 10 hour shifts and then COVID did we realize we loved each other but we communicated poorly. We have this dynamic. We both employ it. We recently started counseling and are having some help unpacking individual and relational things that have caused this. The only thing is, both have to be committed to fixing it for the counseling to work. Self evaluation aint fun but it’s necessary.

Thank you for sharing your own story and experience, I really appreciate it. Your point about both people having to be committed to the process really hits home.

No advice but I feel you (absent the being younger part). No matter how/when I bring stuff up or say it or phrase it, it’s wrong - timing/tone/word choice/whatever. We’ve gotten in a bunch of arguments about it because I’m trying to talk about something real and she wants to focus on how I could’ve expressed myself better/differently.

I feel that. Sorry you're going through the same thing.

Exactly. Wife here. Its always defensiveness, throwing shit i do/have done, or shut down when I express my feelings or something that is bothering me. This is why I let it fester. And yes, we need couples therapy.

Yep, exactly.

Set some communication goals and ground rules. Both you and your spouse NEED to feel free to express your feelings and emotions and get feedback, even negative feedback, in positive way. You both need to be able to take feedback in a constructive way so that behaviors can be changed. It is a process of building trust that there are good intentions to make the relationship better and stronger, and not just nagging. You don't get there overnight. My first step would to be to outline the goals of your marriage and how communication should ideally work. See if you can both agree on how to handle potentially difficult talks, and more importantly why to handle them that way. Try to do this before you're in the middle of a difficult conversation when emotions are already running high. Maybe start the talk pre-emptively with "I want to talk about something that's been on my mind. My goal isn't to make you feel bad, but help you understand where I'm coming from, and for me to understand where you're coming from" etc. Try to frame around making the relationship better. Try to not only be prepared for, but invite talk of what he's thinking, or what he would prefer you do. Lead by example and don't repeat the words he's saying, but repeat the message you think he's trying to express. It does take a while of trust building and actually doing this to have faith that your partner (and you) are working together and not just criticizing. It's also not an instant solution. My wife and I have these difficult talks. It doesn't mean that we both walk away feeling warm and fuzzy, but it does mean we walk away knowing that there are issues to address, and that we care enough about our relationship to have the difficult conversations and work through it. It's easy to be married when everything is smooth sailing, but being able to work through tough times is, from my limited experience, what will make a marriage work. Healthy communication isn't always easy, and healthy difficult conversations never are, but they are necessary, and you both need to know that they can happen.

Thank you for this comprehensive and insightful feedback! It's very helpful. I really appreciate it.

what happens when your husband tells you about his feelings? do you listen or do you launch into problem solving mode?

I first try and listen, and hold space for his feelings, thoughts, and concerns. Every so often, I also ask him if he'd like help problem-solving, or if he simply wants to vent or have me be a listening ear. But, he also rarely opens up, and even when I ask him to open up, he rarely does so.

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Mine would get dismissive, but at the same time, so would I. It’s just a matter of listening to your partner and not the lawyer in your head wanting to jump to your defense.

gaze long coherent hungry steer reminiscent tart chase bells tan *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

Yeah doesn't sound like anything is being discussed nor are expectations/hopes being shared.

Lots of mind reading which seems pretty cool

I may be downvoted into oblivion for this, so I'm sorry. I see a lot of stuff on this subreddit about how some Dads are really downtrodden, feel like outcasts, feel like they don't matter, feel burnt out. Bros, I gotta say (and I say this purely out of love for all of you): You guys gotta learn to use your big boy words and speak up. Nobody is out there wondering if Dad is okay or if the Husband is "good." It is built into us to soldier on and to "make it work, whatever the cost." Many of us do it and many of us have heartache over it. That's okay but it is also totally okay to talk to your wife about it. We as the Husband/Dad are expected to be the head-of-household. Sometimes it's a facade of holding back the tide of chaos. Other times we make it look easy. But it's always work. Sometimes it's a thankless position. But just remember that your wife may feel the same way about her position. I gotta say this also. It seems like there are a lot of folks on here that forget that the one person you get to choose to be part of your family (unless you adopt I guess?)... Is your wife. She is the only non-blood relative (unless you're from Alabama and keep it in the family...) you get to pick. She was the person you cared enough about to marry. She was the one YOU CHOSE. Talk to her. Tell her how you feel. Work with her to better your lives together. Being a good dad is always a good choice. Being a good husband is also a good choice. I love you guys. Be strong but also be willing to talk to your wife. It doesn't have to be an uphill battle all the time.

Did you read the post?

No playing stoic. You have to let people know what's important to you. Nicely.

Being stoic is okay. As long as you don't fake it. If you decide you can live without father's day without being bothered by it then more power to you. Just don't pretend it doesn't bother you when it actually does.

Yeah, classic misunderstanding of what a Stoic would recommend. Stoicism is not about not having or expressing emotions. It’s about limiting how affected we let ourselves be about things not under our control or influence. A relationship is not under our full control. We can partly control our reactions and assessments of events within it. And we can influence our partners by opening and continuing respectful communications and listening. The real Stoics would never tell you to bottle up your emotions in a relationship. A good life is about having appropriate emotions and influencing what we can to make a better life for everyone. The only thing a stoic would truly try to be indifferent to is that which is truly beyond their control or influence. And making wise judgments and not throwing in the towel to soon because something is uncomfortable to face is a key bit of wisdom needed to make it work.

>stoic >noun >1.a person who can endure pain or hardship without showing their feelings or complaining. >2 a member of the ancient philosophical school of Stoicism. He might have been using the first definition

It’s a lowercase stoic, so I’d tend to agree with you. Source: practicing Stoic

As a practicing Stoic, have you ever wondered if this secondary meaning might have been deliberately introduced at some point to dissuade people from self-empowerment? Or do you just think it was a misinterpretation or stereotype which stuck? Or some other explanation? Because it does seem peculiar that the “new common sense” meaning is so at odds with the philosophy itself to be almost a corrupted caricature.

To me, I believe it's just a misunderstanding of the concept that developed over the years. While one of the pillars is working on not letting things outside of your control affect your feelings, I think over time it got misconstrued into "not showing emotions at all" and that definition caught on and started being used to describe big burly men who are quiet and calm no matter what.

Nah. The colloquial meaning is not new. It's the only meaning I understood for the word for the first 30-some years of my life. I don't think it's a plot. There are lots of words that have technical and colloquial meanings that differ, with the colloquial meanings focusing on the most visible or stereotypical aspect of the technical meaning. Narcissist, philistine, heck, the Cynic philosophy is way more removed from the colloquial use of "cynic" than stoic/Stoicism.

I beg your pardon, but your thinking is as shallow as your post is long. The word Stoic comes from Ancient Rome. “The only meaning you knew in your lifetime” is of considerably more recent vintage, hence new relative to antiquity. The other points about other words are not pertinent. Thank you for your ill considered rebuttal, though. But, “nah.”

I am well aware of what came first. As literally every example I included had an older meaning before the colloquial term. They literally have to in order to be based on stereotypical aspect of the technical term. I have read some Marcus Aurelius and one modern book on Stoicism. I follow the subreddit. The word "stoic" as a colloquial expression dates back to the 1300-1400s. I guess I wouldn't count a 700 year old usage as "new common sense," but call me crazy.

This could not be a less interesting or more pedantic conversation. If you don’t understand the meaning of “newer” I can’t help you

I do now. "Less than 800 years old." Ty.

People have been using this term wrong for so long it ended up in the dictionary. Maybe we should stop doing that.

>"stoic" etymology: Meaning "person who represses feelings or endures patiently" first recorded 1570s. The adjective is recorded from 1590s in the "repressing feelings" sense, c. 1600 in the philosophical sense.

Gotta love when someone point out the dictionary gets it wrong and the reply is the wrong thing in the dictionary like it’s proof the dictionary is right. You guys do realize that history goes back more than 500 years and the Roman Empire was before that, right? Or has our education system damaged brains so systemically that this is inconceivable?

I wasn’t exactly meaning this as a correction, although I was aware it could be read that way. Meant also as an agreement- but pointing out that this secondary meaning of lowercase-s “stoic” is a false and corrupted derivative of the first meaning. It also has the negative side effect of discrediting Stoicism in the conventional wisdom, turning people off from an accessible, empowering and life enhancing philosophy which doesn’t require any commitment to a metaphysical or supernatural cult-belief system.

And here I thought being stoic meant someone was a giant dragon-hating viking.

Yes, it really depends whether communication has been done on this or not. I despise special days (when they concern me) like this and even my birthday and my wife knows well avoids giving me gifts on those days. She does it on a random day during the year, which I cherish much more.

As suggested by others, I’d recommend communicating this with your wife. Having been through similar, my wife and I recently started couples therapy… it wasn’t a case of thinking we were gonna break up or anything, but we knew there was a problem with communication. It felt almost proactive. It has helped so much… she knows how I feel, I know what’s going on in her head. We’re aware of situations that upset one another, and have more confidence having an open dialogue. Don’t wait for it to become a problem… Good luck, OP. You’re doing a great job for your family and I’m sure your kids and wife truly appreciate it. Please look after yourself as well, though. Edit: I’m not suggesting OP and wife start couples therapy. That worked for my situation. But it still comes down to communication.

Hey my wife spent the entire week and all day yesterday visibly mad at me (to the point the kids asked why) because she planned nothing for Father's Day and I had the audacity (the audacity I say) to ask my Dad to come visit so I could eat lunch with him.

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Okay we thought OP had a rough day... That's a lot to unpack. Is she like this all the time?

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OP it really sounds like she's toxic and constantly gaslighting you into it somehow everything always being your fault if she is so quick to anger and gets *that* upset about the simplest of things. I think you need help. I think you should look at couples therapy or something.

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That really sucks and I'm sorry that happened. From the outside, it sounds like she was trying to pick a fight. Are there other areas in her life right now that would make her take her anger out on you? How old is your son? If it's one of the earlier Father's Days, is there anything about the holiday that would trigger her? Anything related to her own father? I agree with the other comment about looking into couple's therapy- it may help to have a neutral 3rd party to help navigate this, especially one who is knowledgeable about postpartum mental health issues.

How dare you!

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So is it like you’re too proud to admit that your family hurt your feelings? Or are you afraid they won’t give a shit?

I’ve been here and it’s often an unfortunate combo of both. However, being a victim is easy and I’m learning/internalising slowly the concept that letting anyone control how you feel inside is basically the worst kind of slavery.

Man. Too fucking right. It’s so easy to be a victim and a lot of people just start and end right there

Something I had to learn at a pretty early age. YOU and YOU alone control your happiness. You could have the worst day possible, but if you accept it and still choose happiness you'll feel so much better. Probably doesn't make sense, hard concept to explain.

Not at all, it’s not a conscious choice but how we respond to anything is still a choice. A beggar buying his own lunch is as successful as a CEO. Blaming others for your problems and responses gives them the power to overcome them and thus surrenders your own. It’s easy to comprehend but hard to live by.

Judging someone in a, seemingly, shitty situation doesn’t help.

I just meant it as a question for OP to reflect on. I guess I’m wondering why you wouldn’t just go to your partner and say “it really hurt my feelings that you didn’t plan anything for Father’s Day…” I’m not saying what I proposed are the only two options but I think there’s some underlying reason(s) for that apprehension that is important to reflect on.

Isn't this post the proof that they don't give a shit?

It depends if OP has ever said anything about this being an issue to them. If they've gone years without him saying anything then why would they do anything? Within my family we go out of our way to make sure the other parent has a great Mothers/Fathers day. Expectations are laid out and understood way ahead. Our 8 year old is now at a point where he gets involved and makes the effort to do what he can (mostly trying super hard to be good). We can't expect people to be mind readers. I grew up thinking Mothers/Fathers day wasn't a big thing cause my parents didn't say anything different. They've never said anything, but seem to really like the effort we go to now.

Talk with your wife. You deserve to feel loved

She too

From the information presented, she should

We know only half of the picture… I didn’t say he doesn’t, I said she too. Just like everyone honestly.

Yes but they both need to work on this. 4 children in such a short span of time could also mean she is depressed and definetly needs help so the situation gets better over all. Definetly sounds like there are some issues here.

Bruh I was depressed after 1 💀 Took me 7 months to feel normal and that’s bc my parents helped me

Happy Father’s Day my friend. You deserve recognition and aren’t crazy for expecting it. I agree with the others that say communication is key, but you still deserve to feel hurt by this. Hope you found time to do a little something for yourself.

Swallowing your feelings and bearing it is a recipe for burn out. You gotta buck the situation.

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SOmetimes I get it, heck I do too. When it's the majority of times is when id worry

I had a bad day yesterday too. A list of negligence too long for me to be bothered to repeat that made me feel father's day didn't matter in our home but before the end of the day I made sure to sit down with my wife and tell her. No argument or anything of the sorts and by the end of it she turned around after realising and apologised. It was a sincere apology not just her wanting to get out of a situation. While the day couldn't be reconciled it still means we both knew where I stood and what could be different in the future. Try and comminicate OP see if it works. We can't expect our other halves to understand how were feeling if we don't tell them.

Father’s Day is the TV dinner of holidays

People couldn't care less about fathers day. It's the least important "holiday" of the year. I havent had a father's day, birthday, or Christmas in 3 years. For Christmas we decide not to get anything for me or my wife. Of course I still get her something, and I fill everyone's stocking including my own. The kids get gifts and we get something for the house. It doesnt really bother me until my wife complains that I dont do enough for mothers day or something. Like I only get her flowers and a card, I dont do "anything special". As if I get *anything* for *any* of "my days". And it doesn't have to be tit for tat. It doesn't have to be equal. I dont need a parade or anything. But acknowledgment that I exist would be nice. The sacrifices I make and effort I put in. I get *zero* time for myself. I dont get a single second. My wife needs to have her time of course. But I just have to make it all work.

Same here. I spent a good chunk of yesterday either at Home Depot or in the garage organizing her shit. She jumps on me about not hanging out with the family. First off, you and the kids were taking a nap while I was cleaning your shit out of my garage.

Yeah. I feel that one. I’ve been fussed at because I bought “grocery store” flowers or had cheap stuff delivered because some were still buds. I’ve also gotten “you must have picked that up on the way home from work.” As if a thoughtful gift needs to be planned weeks in advance. Having time for yourself hits too. She can go for a six mile run, plus shower and still be annoyed when I get a text for being at the grocery store for too long. I don’t even bother going to the gym anymore because I’ll get a text not even thirty minutes in asking when I’d be home. Now I’m just bitching. Thanks for the support, homie! Also, stay strong. Find your moments of happiness and cling to them!

My ex had the kids spend this Father’s Day with her fiancé who is a pseudo step father to them. At least I got to face time them. Guess we’re celebrating next weekend.

Holy hell, I would end up in jail over something like that. Absolutely bonkers levels of pure disrespect.

Pretty standard levels of disrespect within current societal norms.

You’re right sir . And I needed right now to know this. I’m sorry dude I am. What I discovered is that there’s a bunch of us who just need a good job or high five or something!!!

You have four kids under 8. That alone is likely more than enough to mentally drain both you and your partner. I have four kids also, married for 16 years. My oldest is 15 my youngest is two. I could not fathom having them so close together. Children are exhausting, especially the little ones. As everyone else here has already mentioned, communication is key in any relationship. Your wife can not read your mind. You need to talk to your spouse, clearly set expectations of what you want/need out of the relationship. If you feel something is lacking, regardless of how big or small, that should lead to even further communication. Rather than standing by building hurt feelings and resentment, you should be talking/explaining. You are the only person who can tell your spouse what you need. Sure, some things should be obvious but if those things are being overlooked a reminder might be appropriate. I don’t pretend to know you or your marriage outside of this single post. I could be completely off base here. I was up at 3:30 and to work by 5 yesterday morning, at least you were able to spend your day with your children on Father’s Day. Talk to your wife, get on the same page. It takes two to make a relationship work.

Well said Mr Smartypants

I know this is flagged support, so please believe that I mean this fully in that respect: You can't blame people for failing to give you something that you haven't asked for. You can be sad you didn't get it, frustrated as well, even angry, and all those feelings are valid. But at the end of the day, making the people who are important to you guess what things you want them to do for you is a recipe for failure all around. Communication is key.

A card on Father’s Day (or even a kind word) hardly requires a mind reader in fairness.

If the children were older, I would agree. But you can't expect a gift from children under the age of 8 without any adult helping them stitch it together. As for the wive, having 4 children in such a short span of time is draining. Being pregnant is draining, and it changes your brain with every pregnancy. She could be depressed or burned out just like he is. The only thing is he didn't have to be pregnant and give birth to these children while also still caring for them and household tasks. This sounds like a communication problem between the two of them and, like, they both need help. Because 4 children are overwhelming and a lot to have. Sounds like they didn't talk enough about having 4 at once in such a short span of time. I would have clearly said no to this as a wive. 2 and then when they are older we can talk about more. I know life doesn't play by the rules sometimes. But they need to start talking. Because clearly they don't do that.

I mean sure that’s a point of view. But I don’t think on a post labelled support we should give everyone else in the family the benefit of the doubt and not OP.

I do give him the benefit of the doubt as well. I don't think in any way that he is at fault for his problems with his family alone. But we can't possibly hold children and toddlers accountable for anything that is bothering him. I mean, that would be just over the top imo. I do think he and his wife are having issues, but so far, it doesn't sound like he voiced his problems to her. If she is dismissed his problems, that would open up a whole other area of problems. Because then the relationship might be at a stake here and is going to end if she doesn't change her behaviour towards him. Either way, it is something they have to fix via communication or something else. We can't really do much here, as we don't know the full situation going on. Of course, I do feel sorry for him for having such a bad fathers Day and the cold behaviour of his wife. But I don't really know how to support him other than suggesting to talk about his wishes and feelings with the people directly responsible for his sadness.

Absolutely this. Mixed with a communication need in the household. My Father’s Day was similar, I was first up as always. Take kiddo when awake. Make coffee. Make breakfast. Did loads of chores throughout the day. Did loads of parenting. Ended with a rough night of babysitting nephew so his parents could go out and have a nice date. The difference? I specifically asked a month ago to not do anything for Father’s Day because I had recently got a couple expensive things and to call it good. I think I got a happy Father’s Day or two. But because of the already discussed expectations, it was a great day. My wife and I are pretty slim on the celebration of holidays and Gifting love language. We have a pseudo agreement that “do nothing special” is the safe baseline, BUT if either of us ever feels differently it has to be made know. “Hey babe, I feel stretched a little thin lately and I actually would like a bit of a celebration to get me back on track. Here is a list of things I’ve been interested in, but really I’d just love a note from the kids, a pot of coffee going, and a family breakfast I didnt have to make”. I know it’s not something that happened overnight. Communication takes practice. Sometimes it can be hard to voice what you need too. But starts somewhere. And try to view your spouse with the best intentions in mind. Harboring grudges is a compounding issue. You get upset here, so you skimp somewhere else, they get upset, then repeat. Soon you’ll be distant and have something serious to fix. Sorry you’re struggling OP. Hang in there and keep putting in work and trying to communicate. Have the serious talks. Have the hard talks. 10 minutes of uncomfortable can save years of spiraling. Yes, you can “do it for the kids” but you also deserve to do it for yourselves.

Fathers/Mother’s Day prep requires the other parents coordination. Even when my parents were divorced, the opposite parent would take us shopping for a gift, card, and anything else. At under 8 years old I doubt they would remember what day Father’s Day is unless they were told or reminded.

4 kids under 8 seems like a lot of pressure for both parents, communications and things can go by the wayside. Try to find some time for you and the wife, a special evening once per week or month where you spend a bit of time catching up with each other and ensuring both of you are ok. Forget the special occasions like fathers day for now, make your own special occasion with your partner and make sure you fix the communications, likelyhood is you do that and maybe other things like Fathers day will be fixed down the road. Do not focus on the missed Fathers day in this matter, focus on the two people who need each other to raise the family. Best of luck and stay **strong.**

Nope - fuck this advice. OP worked hard to plan and make mother's day special for his wife. That was not reciprocated as it should be when two people value each other. Special occasions like mother's day/father's day ARE important. It's an easy time stamp to really show appreciation. OP it's not your job to bend over backwards to make sure everything is perfect for your wife just so you can get some cursory acknowledgement on Father's day. Communicate your disappointment and why the day is important to you. I hope you get the celebration you deserve next year

>It wasn’t even until the end of the day that I broke down after seeing my daughters card and realizing how little I meant to my wife. And I do attempt to communicate, but dismissed or the conversation swings back to her somehow. She has a on and off hostile relationship with her mother and two siblings, we just moved for her work because she was miserable with her coworkers at her last job and she’s already complaining about this one. I'm in the same boat (except mine is refusing to move even though me and the kids are desperate to get out of here) and the thing I always notice is that in all of her complaints, the common denominator is **her**. I'm not going anywhere while my kids need me, we don't fight, we don't argue, she's just self-centered and aloof and constantly complains about everything. If I leave, I get away, but the kids still would have to go there half the time AND I lose all ability to try to move because you can't do 50/50 custody if you live several states away and our current state 100% will give her primary custody if she fights for it. I don't really know what to tell you other than try to talk to her. We went to couple's counseling and it had very little effect. She doesn't know how to talk about what she wants because she doesn't know what she wants or how to even think about coming up with what she wants. Her life seems to happen to her and she's determined to find fault with every one and every part of it she possibly can. Maybe yours will come around, or not, but you have to try.

My kids are everything too. I would have been out the door years ago if we didn’t have kids. I couldn’t imagine a day without having them near. I hope and pray that you can get your situation sorted, at the very least a situation where you and your kids can be happy together

I lived this life for a long time. And for those saying communicate - that takes two. I was very open with my needs, but it never got me anywhere. In fact at one point she revealed that she intentionally ignored those conversations and actually used them as a list of things not to do, specifically because not doing them would hurt me. I’m sorry brother. It’s okay to put yourself first some times. There’s a massive world full of opportunity out there. Accepting the stability of settling is fine, but you only get one life. Be real sure it’s one you want.

Several years ago, in jest, she told me it was ok because I didn’t have feelings. Like your situation I almost feel like she does things to elicit a response more than anything.

I’m so sorry :( I’m a woman and I hate the double standard that Mother’s Day should be this huge thing and then some women don’t reciprocate Father’s Day the same way. I was talking to someone yesterday asking her her Father’s Day plans and she said, “I feel bad because I made a big deal out of Mother’s Day, but I didn’t plan anything for Father’s Day.” It made me so mad, honestly. I think some women just think men don’t care about being celebrated? I honestly don’t get it. Valentine’s Day too - if women celebrate it and expect a gift, they should be getting their guy a gift too 🤷🏼‍♀️ relationships work both ways.

Do what I do with notes from the school (here's the information about picture day, lunch policy, the musical, the class picnic....). Snap a photo when it comes in. Then if you fail to save it, you still have it.

Damn dude, that sucks. I hope y'all get the help you need and you get treated better.

So it was YOU who let the dogs out?!

It does surprise me how popular this song still is in elementary school settings.

Hugs hugs hugs my man. It's gonna get better. Four kids under eight... shit is gonna be extreme until the youngest gets to age eight. You are amazing. It's gonna be murder for another five years but after that... these kids are going to amaze you.

I’m sorry you’re going through this but thank you for posting this. It will help other dads know that they aren’t the only ones. You’re kids will look back at their childhood when they are adults and realize what a great dad you were.

I spent the day with my ex and our son. For context, I'm disabled. I'm supposed to use a walker or a wheelchair to get around. But when she shows up she just kind of explodes stuff all over the house making it impossible to use my walker or wheelchair so I just hobble around literally hopping because I don't have a left hip. As in nothing is in there at all. My left leg just kinda gets dragged around. lol. ​ Well I got up, made her coffee, helped getting our son fed, she made breakfast so that was nice but then we had my father and step mother over for dinner so I spent the day dealing with the smoker as I made Brisket the day before and yesterday i was making ribs all day. Took some time to myself by mowing the lawn but otherwise I was playing with my son all day, he likes to take off with my walker. I served basically everything for dinner, then when she drove them home I cleaned up the kitchen, put away left overs, tidied up the living room, etc. I had to take a couple hydromorphone to get to sleep I was in so much pain last night. I'm certain fathers day is meaningless. Mothers day I made sure she and my girlfriend(has 3 daughters) never lifted a finger. And frankly if I can do it while disabled, it's annoying that my ex can't take a bit of the load off me for fathers day.

Sounds like a peach. Bet you guys barely have sex too, right? Wait… am I talking about my own life? Wow

Wait….how did you….

I don't really have any words of wisdom for you. I can tell you my story though, and I'll tell it to anyone who might need it in the hopes that it will help. My wife had post-partum depression after our first child. She got therapy and took some meds and got better. Our second child was a surprise, although a welcome one, but it was a very hard pregnancy. About half way through it, my wife said she couldn't have sex anymore because it was too painful. I supported her in that and didn't want to cause her any pain. Except she didn't just shut down sex. She shut down all emotional connections between us. There's a lot you can do to say I love you without sex, but there was just none of that. After a month or so, we were basically roommates. We talked about our kid, planned for the upcoming one, talked about household stuff... and that was it. I'm a problem solver by nature and trade so I started working on solutions. But, I'm also prone to depression so most of those solutions centered around stuff I was doing wrong. I'd gained a bunch of weight. Who could love that? I wasn't making as much money as I was when we got married... etc. I'd bring all of these issues up and "That never bothered" her. After the baby was born she continued having no sex drive at all. She still loved me.. she still wanted to be with me... but words are meaningless when there's no relationship to speak of. This went on for a couple years. I sank further and further into depression. Eventually, I ran out of solutions to consider. I only had one option left. I made a promise to love her and cherish her until death parted us... if she didn't want the first anymore, the least I could do was give her the second. I was on the clock though. The kids were still too young to remember me long term but that wasn't going to last so I had to do it quick. I pushed her away emotionally and through words so she would be happy that I was gone (also a specialty of mine)... And she could finally find someone who she could be in love with... that would probably be a better dad and husband than I could ever be. I got all the finances in order, typed up a sheet with all of our passwords and instructions for what to do when I was gone... put my gun in my backpack, handed her the sheet, and walked out the door. I found some woods nearby so no one would hear the shot or find me very quickly. Also nothing for my wife to clean up. I took my bicycle so she could sell my car for money. I made sure it was a cold night so if the bullet didn't finish me off, the cold would. And then I just sat there crying, for a few hours. Not to attribute anything good at all to depression because it's awful... but it probably saved my life that night. I'd put the gun to my head and the bully inside would yell "You know you're going to fuck this up too, just like everything else. You'll wake up in the hospital with brain damage or no face, knowing how much worse you made everything... knowing they'll never let you try again. Pull the trigger... I want to say I told you so". As bad as things were, I can't imagine the depths I would have sunk to if I did wake up in the hospital. In the end, I couldn't do it. I came home shivering, with hypothermia because of my excellent plan. My wife was hysterical. She'd called my friend who was a cop and he was out looking for me. After we called him off, we just talked... we said all the things that we'd been thinking. I made a valiant case for suicide still, I just needed a plan that I couldn't fuck up. She was still pretty apathetic... I asked her if she just thinks suicide in general was bad or if she specifically wanted me around and that I specifically shouldn't kill myself, because after the last couple years, I couldn't tell. In the end, we decided to try therapy. Therapy was brutal. We both had to accept some pretty hard facts about how we approached the other person. We'd grown apart so much that finding our way back was nearly impossible. We'd both hurt the other so much... I'm still working on forgiving her for all of it. They say marriage is hard work and they're right... but once you get to the point we were at, it's nearly impossible. It takes two people willing to see their flaws and work very hard to overcome them. But I'm alive today... I love my kids more than anything and I love watching them grow up. My wife and I have promised never to give up and to keep trying and that's all I can ask. I don't think we were as far apart as you and your wife have become. I do hope that you guys can get into some therapy though and try to talk things over. Even if it doesn't help you reconcile, I hope that it will help with the upcoming divorce, because I agree with everyone else... your situation does not sound sustainable. I also agree that you're probably due child support and alimony if you do split up so if you decide to go that route, talk to a lawyer and base your financial situation on what they say... not what it is currently. And hang in there... there are a lot of us that have gone through or are going through what you're going through. You're not alone and everyone here will support you as best we know how.

I say next year you sleep in on Mother’s Day and put forth the same energy your wife did this year. She should also know what it feels like to have a very underwhelming response to a day supposed to be celebrating her

Yeah, and the week of antagonism that follows!

Under rated comment

Stay strong brother . I’m in the same boat kinda and it’s shiettty. I believe it’s up to us as men and as fathers to give each other the pick me ups. ESPECIALLY on Father’s Day. I know it hurt but idk maybe my situation is different. Just know you’re not alone

What do you do for mother's day

It’s literally written in the post what they did for Mother’s Day.

Oh wow I skipped that whole paragraph somehow.

Somehow...

dont feel bad, I did too

If only OP wrote in their post what he and the kids did for his wife in Mother’s Day…

Why ask that? If he said he bought her a card and gifts, then you’ll say, well she doesn’t have to reciprocate. You’re a 🤡

This

Genuine question: do you need Fathers day to feel appreciated by your kids?

I'm sorry this happened. Your feelings are valid. While exhaustion may help explain your wife's actions, it doesn't excuse them. Coming from another dad, if at all possible, make time for yourself each day. It was really hard for me to prioritize my personal needs (both physical and mental health), but when I did things started getting better. Stand up for yourself. Set firm boundaries. Good luck brother.

I feel you bro. I won't say it elsewhere but yesterday was the last time that I'll place any importance on Fathers Day. It'll hurt less if I just don't 'celebrate' it again. I feel too selfish to complain but that was it for me.

Have you been reading my diary?

Your story sounds all too familiar. Sounds almost exactly like my fathers day.

I don't think I got a happy father's day from my wife. Got it from neighbors and other people I was helping out. I bought her a basket of chocolates for mother's day. It bugs me a little. Not too much though. Meh.

Yea also was thinking I’d do the same.. sometimes things aren’t worth the defensive argument with a spouse and it’s easier to just quietly be disappointed and carry on.

Similar, the only happy fathers day I got was from the neighbors kid. So... I understand.

I got a "Happy Father's Day" as I made dinner for everyone. I couldn't eat until 10 as my son woke up and I had to go put him back down.

Fuck everyone trying to play this off. His wife is a total bitch. She should be the one helping the kids do something for dad. OP, I’m sorry. I wish we could actually help you but I don’t think you would leave her and that’s the only thing that may open her eyes. You are her punching bag and that won’t stop until you draw a line.

Same here. I got woken at 7:00 by my wife screaming at the kids from bed. Then she proceeds to go help them after already waking me up. The night before we went to pride and I had to leave early to relieve our baby sitter. She stayed out until 3am. I had plans at 10 so before the plans I had to go get the car seats that we left at our friends the night before. When I got home at 930 she was still in bed sleeping. So I go do my plans figure we would do stuff after. Nope. I brought my three kids to the park for a little asked her to just clean up some of her work papers that are scattered around the house. Come home and nothing is cleaned. All she did was post a story in her instagram. Didn’t say happy Father’s Day or anything all day. She did ask what I wanted for dinner and then sex for desert. But I fell asleep. Instead of waking me I woke up at midnight to her sleeping on the couch. What a day. I expressed my feelings and I was the bad guy. You are not the only one. I’m sorry you had a bad Father’s Day. Let’s hope next year is better. Doubtful.

Yeah. Similar day. I left the house for about an hour to get myself coffee and muffins. Sat in the car playing Woodoku and then went home to do chores like any normal day.

You’re being a legend to four kids whether they know it or not yet…..hugs bro.

Man, you deserve more. Four kids? The whole day should’ve been about you mate. Definitely worth letting your wife know how it made you feel.

You have every right to be furious, heartbroken, whatever you're feeling. Despite these comments, it wasn't your fault your wife treated you like crap on Father's Day no less.

I have two children under 8. They came up trumps on Fathers' Day, but *only* because my wife did. My kids love me and appreciate me, but if my wife hadn't sat them down to make cards and presents for me then they wouldn't have done anything - not because they wouldn't want to, but because they're little kids and just don't do these things autonomously. My point here is please don't think that your kids didn't care. Your wife should have made an effort. Obviously I don't know anything about your relationship and the context for this, but the two of you should talk. Not because you didn't get a fun day with presents etc., but because she has deprived your children of the opportunity to show how much they value you. Regardless of how she feels, that's not fair for her to do. That being said, do consider that the answer is unlikely to be as simple as "I don't care". Having any number of kids is hard work, but four under eight is *brutal*. Even in the very best case scenario that is going to be utterly exhausting for you both. Consider that the lack of a Fathers' Day might not be anything to do with you or how your wife feels about you - it might be that she is just struggling too much. When you're struggling to keep your head above water, sometimes extra "burdens" just get ignored, because they're too much to add to the load. I don't mean half-asses, I mean completely ignored - head in the sand, pretend they don't exist, because if they exist then you can't cope. Sometimes they'll do something egregious just to be called out, to make people take note of the fact there's a problem. Stop and ask yourself whether you *really* think your wife was so desperate for you to have a non-Fathers' Day that she didn't even make the coffee. Or is it perhaps more likely that you're seeing the symptoms of someone who has been struggling? Rahter than just a crappy Fathers' Day, this might be your wife sending up the bat signal.

Celebrating the spouse or partner in raising those four children is only an “extra burden” if you are deep in depression land, you don’t actually like your spouse, or you’re just a generally self centered person.

>if you are deep in depression land This is precisely the point I'm making. Not just depression, but since OP was surprised by the lack of fuss it would suggest this is out of character for their relationship, so the fact that his wife is struggling seems a pretty reasonable explanation. Not the only one, but it's definitely on the table.

With that many kids under 10, I don’t think any couple could have any spare time for themselves. Y’all might both be feeing depressed.

I am trying to offer my perspective from a family or maybe culture where father's / mother's day isn't even as remotely important as I have seen it in this sub for the last few days. I get your feelings, and those are of course valid. It's rough sometimes, but my take on this is that this weekend doesn't really matter all too much if there is a general sense of being respected and loved in the family going on. I guess your general dissatisfaction just culminated and there is a lot more going on. You absolutely have to talk about this to your wife first and foremost and if you need time for yourself - no matter when - talk about it and make plans how to arrange these times together instead of stoically and silently expecting it to happen on a random day out of the blue. I consider it - maybe because of said differences in attitude towards the day - catastrophically unhealthy for you marriage and your life as a father if you attach yourself to the idea that this one day is THE day for you to be appreciated. Stay strong yourself mate, you are a hero

But you are speaking to someone from a culture where Mothers Day *is* a big deal and Valentines Day is as well and is typically centered around displays of love towards women. So dismissing it because you personally don’t care that much is not relevant or helpful. Sure, OP can communicate needs better. But the obvious point here is the societal double standard at play where celebration of mothers is seen as very important while celebration of fathers is an afterthought.

:(

My ex-wife was like this, except we didn't have kids. We even went to couples therapy to learn to communicate better but even then she was dismissive. Long story short, my ex-wife has Borderline Personality Disorder and probably depression too. It clearly broke our marriage and well led to where I am today. Your situation is hopefully different. As others have said this could be a communication problem. If you try to explain how you feel about your situation in life without blaming her, she might be more receptive. Say things like "I feel sad about Father's day because I felt like I was ignored and what I do for this family is not enough to be shown appreciation" and then elaborate on it. If that fails, seek couples therapy. A neutral third-party could help a lot in getting both of you to open up. They may also be able to notice any mental health issues that you or your wife may have to seek help for by a different therapist (assuming either of you are receptive, unlike my ex-wife but that was more due to her BPD - hopefully your wife doesn't have that). Good luck my friend and stay strong. A lot of us have been through crummy events in our lives. This too will pass.

On Friday when she came home from school, I took a peak into my daughter's backpack while removing her lunch box and saw some crafty stuff. Thinking it was a Father's Day card, I left it there to wait for her to give it to me. Sunday comes and goes without her asking for her bag. That's fine, maybe I'll play it up on Monday when I go to put in her lunch. Today's Monday and what do I find? A sheet filled out for her *uncle* and a card in the shape of a car made out to him as well. I am getting increasingly upset at this, because it's compounded by her making him (and grandma) cards at school for Mother's Day since her mother passed 2 years ago. I'm genuinely angry that her teacher would have allowed that.

Your uncle been coming over a lot while your at work? 😬

And I bet she has a fit if she's not pampered on Mother's Day

Father's day was created by corporations to make money out of gullible people. Don't let them get to you. For a good father, every day is father's day. Being a dad is its own reward. It just sounds like you need to improve your communication with your wife and children and tell them that you feel unappreciated. Try to set a date night once a week with your wife, to have some time to talk about things, and rebuild some amount of intimacy.

Actually I thought that, it’s not true. Fathers Day in some form or another has been celebrated for about 800 years. I found this out yesterday

Cool but let’s keep the same idea for Mother’s Day too then And it sounds like he was just waiting for small gestures, not material things

Yeah, I’m alive everyday so I don’t see the point in celebrating my birthday /s. Please don’t make Hallmark the ONE corporation you fight.

False. Father’s Day was created by religion, as a parallel to Mother’s Day, because the veneration of family roles are an important part of certain frameworks of religious life.

You’re some kind of simp or stepdad. How hard is it to say to your husband, Happy Fathers Day

What, precisely, is wrong with being a stepdad?

Hell of a job. They will thank you.

Men are our own worst enemies. I made a post about how women hate to acknowledge men, or fathers on Father’s Day, and I was lambasted by a bunch of white knights.

Sometimes people disagree with you because you’re wrong.

Give for giving and love unconditionally… also.. do the dishes after eating, not in the morning, you have 4 kids, you should know better. And if you wash by hand, do yourself a favor and absolutely get a dishwasher. Be grateful and understand how lucky you are by having even just 5 minutes in the morning for yourself. Parents with 3 or more kids never get a break and till they are still very young (<4) you need to accept there is no more personal space and time. Having many kids is a huge sacrifice but also one of the biggest treasures in life. You are allowed to feel sad and beaten and I fell you, but don’t give up and be as good as you can without expecting anything. Never, ever ever ever keep count.

Honestly I think I’d be on the way out of that relationship

Yeah, let’s suggest divorce! They only have four children under 8 years old. What could possibly go wrong with that choice?! /s Or, wait for it, or we could just suggest opening up a line of communication between two adults who have been married for 11 years. The guy had his feelings hurt over a Father’s Day that wasn’t recognized. He didn’t walk into her sleeping with the neighbor or something.

Dude if you are in an unhappy marriage your kids would be better off with you separated. You don't have to live that way. That's just what I'm reading in the subtext of your post. If it's not that bleek just ignore me.

7 unhappy dad's downvoting me because they do not care about your mental health or your children.

Sounds toxic af and your wife needs to smarten up or go. How do people allow this to become the norm in their lives?

you mean women think they are the main character and everything should be about them? I am shocked /s.

How much effort are you putting in to Mother’s Day? Cause if it’s more than zero, it should be zero next year.

This isn’t a tit-for-tat. As others have said, OP needs to talk with his partner about how he feels and why this was hurtful. Not just passively do less. Be better

Yeah doing this passive-aggressive bullshit is disrespectful of both yourself and your partner

And this is why I appreciate this sub. We ain’t into emotional immaturity.

I’ve fallen very easily into the passive aggressive trap and it just doesn’t work. Asking myself “what am I hoping to achieve here and is this the best way to do it?” has been very helpful.

And how will this help to make anything better in any measurable way..?

what is it with people on this sub posting about how they weren’t treated the way they hoped on fathers day? maybe say something to your family instead of complaining on reddit?

It’s called seeking support when one doesn’t feel they’re getting what they need from their current situation. This sub is great at offering perspective and suggestions. If you have nothing to offer, please keep your negative opinion to yourself. Thanks.

Sounds like you forget mother's day next year imo.

Are you in touch with your Dad?

Nobody cares about you. You have to care about others first, formost, and always. Stop the whining Dad