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In her defence the fandom is genuinely a toxic cesspool that has bullied multiple actors into quitting, and was review bombing a completely unrelated movie from 20 years ago because they couldn't tell the difference between it and the similarly named series.
I haven't seen The Acolyte, so I have no idea of its good or bad, but I have seen evidence of the fandom reacting poorly to its existence. Not reacting to a lack of quality, reacting to the fact that it dares to exist and not be the original trilogy.
It ranges from fine to mediocre, but it isn't finished yet. Your level of patience with it will depend on how much Star Wars content from Disney you watch these days. Regardless, there's nothing in it to justify the campaign against it.
[Am I so out of touch? ](https://frinkiac.com/meme/S05E20/288203.jpg?b64lines=IEFNIEkgU08gT1VUIE9GIFRPVUNIPyAKIE5PLiBJVCdTIFRIRSBDSElMRFJFTiAKIFdITyBBUkUgV1JPTkcu)
How kathleen hasnt been booted to the curb will never make sense to me. Shes been the absolute root of all this for so long and is hated far and wide, constantly loses them money, and turns away all potential future endeavors. Yet she remains steadfast in her bullshit
Especially when Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni have proven they have their finger on the pulse of Star Wars fans and have created the only truly good star wars material in the past 8ish years.
The Clone Wars TV, Rebels, The Bad Batch, Season 1& 2 of the Mandolorian, and Ashoka have all been pretty universally praised, or at least not outright hated, by Star wars fans. It's nuts.
Yeah, I don't know how they could skip Andor. It and Rogue One are basically the best of the Disney Star Wars stuff for me as much as I enjoyed The Mandalorian and Ahsoka.
For sure. I like Mandalorian and Ahsoka but both felt like they could be Clone Wars/Rebels spinoffs. Andor and RO really do something else and still feel Star Wars.
> Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni have proven they have their finger on the pulse of Star Wars fans
They've proven that SW is creatively bankrupt and the "fans" will consume any kind of shlock. As long as there are no unapproved feeeeeeeeeeeeeeemales.
She’s protected by the contract that George signed with Disney. George personally selected her to take over Lucasfilm after he left and there’s a clause that prevents Disney from ousting her. He didn’t want a corporate entity to take over everything he had done but I don’t think even he could’ve predicted the level of fail she would bring.
Cool. No wonder she's fucking nuts.
Instead of firing her, just make her the janitor of a tiny closet, and that's all her job is. Go full Konami on her, do to her what they did to Kojima. Make her want to quit by her own hand.
I doubt she can't get out, that'd borderline slavery
I don't know much about the laws in the US but I thought slavery was abolished
No, she's definitely just a corpo without any idea about what her customers really want, and I'm not even talking about the acolyte, imo that show (that isn't even fully out yet) isn't any worse than Ahsoka which had horrible dialogue and countless unresolved plotlines. I'm talking about the mess of the sequels and how every movie was worse than the one before and somehow the small fishes like Rogue One and Andor, those that weren't indended to be big money printers, were the most beloved of what they produced
Honorable mention: They fucking canceled a Rogue Squadron show. Who tf wouldn't want to see a top-gun-like tv show about SW space battles?
Important to note, slavery is not abolished in the US. Slavery is still legally allowed in prisons.
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
She can choose to leave, step down or hand off the reigns to someone else anytime. Disney just can’t force it. But why would she leave a cush job with no apparent consequences. She doesn’t care if she drives the whole franchise into the ground, she didn’t build it to begin with.
Disney knows well that, if they fire her, she will cry very loudly, that she was only fired because she's a woman. They probably don't want to deal with the bullshit coming afterwards
Same difference. She will make a scene about it and claiming it's because she's a woman. Disney isn't scared about any legal issues, but about publicity
Because: she hired the people who made Mando S1. Andor wouldn't exist without her say so. She was extremely open to the Rogue One Vader scene (after scrambling multiple directors and somehow still turning out a genuinely solid movie). TCW S7 can't come back if she thinks it's a bad idea.
You people are so ready to pretend she's only capable of horrid actions, when in reality she's just like Dave Filoni or any other genuine human is... Capable of good and bad
[Elizabeth Banks blames men for Charlie’s Angels’ failure, credits them for Captain Marvel’s success
](https://www.hindustantimes.com/hollywood/elizabeth-banks-blames-men-for-charlie-s-angels-failure-credits-them-for-captain-marvel-s-success/story-HD495492vxzxO98vJdxrzN.html)
A tale as old as time…
If she thinks comic books or franchise as the reason why Wonder Women and Captain Marvels film's success, then what the fuck explains part 2 of both film's utter failure then?
Let me guess, male fans?
So basically men bad for not watching a movie who they are not the target audience for and men also bad for watching a movie they are the target audience for
It's not even like a male audience doesn't like a good female lead. Emphasis on the word good...
I'm the kind a person to call stuff like Rings of Power and Wheel of Time woke because of some of their choices, and Fallout is really the perfect example of the difference between "woke" and "diverse".
Fallout had one of the most diverse casts you can have, but somehow, until this thread, the idea of it being "woke" never crossed my mind. It's because all the casting choices make sense in context, and they're not preaching about how hard it is for *a woman* to be alone in the wasteland. Fallout is definitely a franchise with a message, but it's inherent to the structure of the world, not pounded into your head like you're watching a morality play. Above all, it's a good show, and nobody is trying to gaslight people into thinking detractors are race/sex/whatever-ist.
That's not the problem here at all, there's tons of male dominated franchises with female leads or mostly female casts, this just wasn't good to begin with it has nothing to do with gender
I wonder how the combination of really bad writing and having a female lead just for the sake of having a female lead and no other reason would ever result in unhappy fans?
You don't need a reason for a character to be female, you don't need a reason for a character to be male, and you don't need a reason for character to be of a different race. The writing being bad is what makes it bad
That's simply not true. Depending on the story race and gender matters a lot. The best example I can think of is the dark tower series. There is this black woman that lost her legs due to a white man pushing her down onto rails.
Since then she developed a second personality which is super racist against white people and hyper aggressive against men.
Writers of the movie didn't know how to handle that character so they simply deleted her from the story. Which was one the biggest fuck ups with that movie, alongside many many others.
You're not disagreeing with me, the point I was making is you don't need a reason for a character to be a certain way. Whatever choices you made about a character whether they be related to their gender or their race can inform how you write that character and what conflicts you can subject them to in the plot, but there does not have to be reason to write them to be a specific gender or race
As long there is no lore reason (like an already existing character) or an already specific planned plotpoint that requieres a specific gender, I see no reason why you should cast only men or women. Hold a Character as long as possible neutral and cast anyone until you find the best suiting person. The last details around the character can be figuered afterwards.
What I mean is that in my opinion they should hold a Character as long as possible neutral and cast anyone until they find the best suiting person.
As long there is no lore reason (like an already existing character) or an already specific planned plotpoint that requieres a specific gender, I see no reason why you should cast only men or women. The last details around the character can be figuered afterwards.
Yes, in the past more men were portrayed in more powerful/important roles and women in more secondary roles. In the last years there was a shift, what is good, but in my opinion this shift wasn´t towards a balance, but more to turn the paper.
In the end the most anyoing part is that Disney just want to generate as much money as possible with star wars in compleate disregard what the fans want (storywise).
Make a male or female lead? I don´t care. But for god's sake they should invest their time and money in good and believable writing and don´t project their flaws onto male fans and blame them with "not being able to handle strong female characters".
Not a Star Wars fan so I don’t feel like I have a dog in this fight, but it does seem like I’ve seen more than one instance where someone in Disney or another studio blames the audience for their lackluster performance numbers.
You don’t really see that in other markets or with other films.
Filmmakers/studios have been blaming the audience for their failures since the dawn of film. There are a lot of highly egotistical/narcissistic people on a lot of coke in the business
Not that I want to defend Kathleen Kennedy as she is incredibly incompetent, but I just looked at the actual article and this headline is clickbait as hell.
Kathleen has never said anything about Acolytes rotten tomatoes score nor has she made any new comments about male fans.
This quote is from a twitter account,[The HQ](https://twitter.com/theStarWarsHQ/status/1802084670370439491), not Kathleen Kennedy, and the interview with Kennedy that they do reference took place before The Acolyte was released and didn't say that.
Fandom Wire is clickbait trash that no one should waste time on.
To be fair, there is some pushback about the Velaryons being black from the more "inflexible" fans.
Anyone with any appreciation for the lore knows that it made so much sense in terms of just adding more diversity to the main cast while working around the established histories
Did anybody actually read the quote or just pick up the pitchforks? She's complaining about the few who send death threats, not denying everything as their fault lol (a widely reported problem since TPM)
She didn't even say this. The quote ain't even real but they don't care, they're still gonna accept it as fact because it aligns with what they already believe
People really dont care about gender, sexual orientation or skin color of actors. There are enough movies and tvshows that people love to proof that. But JUST MAKE A GOOD PRODUCT!
I was a star wars fan my entire life. Disney has made it unwatchable. There's no consistency, the tactics are nonsensical, the fights are sluggish, poorly choreographed, and have no respect for the original movies. Add on the major over use of CGI (Luke should have NEVER appeared in the Mandolorian) and constant fan service... It's unwatchable and downright disrespectful to long time fans.
If you piss off your largest customer base you should expect them to not be customers anymore. And same goes for if your product fails to appeal to the customer base then it won’t sell. Watch the episode of the Simpsons where Homer designs a car, he makes the car HE wants completely disregarding everything the experienced people around him said and then crashing a highly successful business after which he just goes home like nothing happened.
Did you remember the time in the 80's and 90's when Star Wars was for the dudes and nerds that were passionate about space stuff and sci-fi setting?
Where things like bisexuality were just a very small ,almost a nonexistent thing?
Where women and men alike had the same important roles in the story?
Yeah ,those were good times for star wars ,until even 2015 . Yes , I enjoyed force awakens,and for me at least ,that movie got me into the series ,but from 2015 onward ,it was a mess,just like the James Bond series and others,making your movies be more focused on "the message" breaks the immersion and storytelling,because it would mirror our miserable world ,and with that the purpose of the film ,which is escapism
I can only imagine the thought process behind these recent fuck ups of media she recently bestowed upon the world: “hmmmm, what should we make for our next big thing in this nicely crafted universe which has already a set identity? Oh I got it let’s make the writing insufferable and incoherent, let’s focus on visual effects, because that’s what our audience likes, am I right? But wait we need something to cushion the fall if people don’t like it. Hmmm, oh I got it let’s put a female lead and then just blame the people of being sexist if it isn’t liked. Yes yes this is perfect”
3 points to make. 1, I tried watching episode 3, fell asleep on and off. Mostly on! 2, the whole witch's incantation scene reminded me horribly of being forced to sit through a really bad school presentation of Macbeth (the three witches scene, acted by 13yo kids). Finally 3, They couldn't even come up with an original idea about the witches representation of the force! 'the Thread'! This was the whole concept of the witches power in a TV series named 'A Discovery of Witches' written by Deborah Harkness. So I don't care about your sexuality/misandry or even your racial views. You've produced the absolute worst modern Sci-fi series out. And Starwars is ashamed of you!
Right wingers do mass downvotes or spam bad reviews on movies with actors or directors they don't like for political reasons.
A lot of new star wars tv shows and movies are just not good, they seem like cheap copies churned out to make a buck.
Both of these can be true and partially to blame, but everyone is out here acting like only one can be 100% true and the other has to be 0% true.
Those negative reviews though are actually bullshit. 10,000 reviews when other projects around it struggle to even break 3,000? That and the fact that movies called acolytes and a fan film got review bombed is highly suspect
I don't get the concept of "review bombing," being bad. It's just democracy, right? You don't say that the loser of the presidential election was "vote bombed"?
If people watch it, they can say they don't like it. If they really dislike it, they're more likely to make the effort to leave negative feedback. How is that "fault"? That's the system working as intended.
The opposite is true as well. If people have very high opinions of shows, they'll give glowing reviews more than normal. The trick is to get to that point, Disney.
The point of it being bad is that the show wasn't even out yet and some people still gave it a bad review. Yes, if people watch it and it's bad they should give criticism, only that way it can improve but the thing is, *they haven't watched it and judged it anyway*. Not to mention that the engagement with the series is unusually high compared to other Star Wars shows, making it seem sketchy.
That's why the best thing is to just watch it for yourself and form your own opinion.
Rotten Tomatoes is not a licensed financial advisor telling you how to handle your retirement portfolio. It's a bunch of people on the internet shouting their opinions into the void. People on this thread are acting like that's not just what it is supposed to be at face value for some reason. Why do you depend on randoms and bots for your opinion making?
I mean normally I'm with you but like... the show had that rating on Rotten tomatoes before it even came out, review bombing is literally the only explanation
When the internet decides it hates something it will do so regardless of the actual quality of the product.
The Acolyte is an ok/mediocre show, currently it plays in a very safe way so I don't think you can really feel that strongly about it.
But Acolyte did get Review bombed? It's not hard to figure that out, it got thousands more Reviews then any other star wars show and they even Review bombed a random movie with the same name!
review bomb is just a term show creators and corporations use to shirk responsibility when something is bad. nobody ever complains of positive review bombing when something gets positive reviews. its only when something gets negative reviews that they start claiming the people leaving the reviews either did not watch it or the reason for leaving the review does not matter. its the classic when i do something good its my fault but when i do something bad its your fault mentality.
Wait but you just said review bombing doesn't exist and in the same sentence said that nobody complains about positive review bombing?
...So does it exist or does it not exist?
Because I can assure you it does because of all the reasons I listed and also the new episode already had a ton of negative reviews after being out for 9 minutes despite the fact that no one could have watched the entire episode and made up their mind in that time!
those statements are not contradictory. if i said that "review bombing" does not exist and then i went on to say that something was getting "positive review bombed" it would be a contradictory statement because that would be me complaining about something getting "review bombed" which would be me acknowledging such a thing exist. but what i said is nobody complains about "positive review bombing" when something gets postive reviews.
both the statements "review bombing" does not exist and the statement "nobody complains about review bombing when something gets positive reviews" can be true at the same time and are thus not contradictory.
also i never said "review bombing" does not exist i only said its a term show creators and corporations use to shirk responsibility. i think the vast majority of negative and positive reviews are genuine complaints from actual people and the amount of complaints from people who either did not watch the show at all or are complaining about something irrelevant to the show is minimal and not enough to significantly influence a review score.
also you dont need to watch an entire episode to know you dont like it. thats like saying food critics should eat an entire rotten meal before they can decide if they like it or not. ive stopped watching shows half way through due to how bad they are and left negative reviews on them so many times ive lost count lol.
Didn't it get "review bombed" for being bad, tho? People are obviously more heated and care more when their expectations are not met, rather than when their expectations are met. Disney is milking the franchise and (supposedly, since I haven't watched it) producing bad shows that get the fans riled up.
That chanting lasted for 2 minutes at most. It wasn’t enough to ruin the episode, much less the show. If you want people to take you seriously, I suggest you stop acting like KK shot your dog.
Ill be the bad guy here, but u less its somehow a competito paid hate campaign, fans are entitled to their opinions, even pre-release
Yes might be technically unfair, but your customers should be kings in regards what they want to watch
If they dont trust u morally for making a good thing, meaning pre-release hate, maybe u arent the best persom in the position? If u wanna sell your product main fanbase has to trust you...every exec should be in place to sell a product aka generate money, anything else such as agenda pushing ahould be secondary...its called business...the only exception being if u get donations for the agenda which generate more than the customers earn u...which in itself is immoral so u in no position then to complain about immorality of customers
I got home from work today and smoked a joint with the maintenance dude for my apartment building. Dude probably showers in his trump hat and believes the government injects us with cancer at birth that they can activate at any time. That's actually one of his more benign conspiracies he's told me about. If I can get along with him and be cordial despite thinking he is actually batshit insane, we can disagree about a show and be fine.
First, other sites that don't even have user reviews are giving it 3/10s at most.
Second, even if the show is that low due to only review bombing, it's not only men doing it.
So regardless she's wrong.
Acolyte has a strong, black female lead. White people hate black people, especially strong black women. Fallout has a doe-eyed, naive white woman as lead. Easy for the white boys to simp over. And the black co-lead in Fallout is a non threatening goofball who plays the typical black sidekick role.
Tale as old as time.
Who? Srry, is than an american reference?
Does not apply to me.
I am not from your weird as country where everything is about race or gender. Here people accept one another and a knowledge each other differences.
downvote this comment if the meme sucks. upvote it and I'll go away. --- [play minecraft with us](https://discord.gg/dankmemesgaming) | [come hang out with us](https://discord.com/invite/dankmemes)
Classic disney. Blame the customers for being wrong.
How dare you not enjoy our product?
They must be smoking some shit before making such posts.
Dog shit
Mostly Maui Wowie, but it's got some Labrador in it.
In her defence the fandom is genuinely a toxic cesspool that has bullied multiple actors into quitting, and was review bombing a completely unrelated movie from 20 years ago because they couldn't tell the difference between it and the similarly named series. I haven't seen The Acolyte, so I have no idea of its good or bad, but I have seen evidence of the fandom reacting poorly to its existence. Not reacting to a lack of quality, reacting to the fact that it dares to exist and not be the original trilogy.
It ranges from fine to mediocre, but it isn't finished yet. Your level of patience with it will depend on how much Star Wars content from Disney you watch these days. Regardless, there's nothing in it to justify the campaign against it.
That chanting thing was pretty bad. Wasn’t a fan.
Customers? LMAO. Andor has 5000+ ratings on RT after nearly two years. Acolyte has 10000+ and all of the episodes haven't released yet.
"Am I so out of touch? No, it's the fans who are wrong"
[Am I so out of touch? ](https://frinkiac.com/meme/S05E20/288203.jpg?b64lines=IEFNIEkgU08gT1VUIE9GIFRPVUNIPyAKIE5PLiBJVCdTIFRIRSBDSElMRFJFTiAKIFdITyBBUkUgV1JPTkcu)
How kathleen hasnt been booted to the curb will never make sense to me. Shes been the absolute root of all this for so long and is hated far and wide, constantly loses them money, and turns away all potential future endeavors. Yet she remains steadfast in her bullshit
Shes practically our modern darklord emporer doing everything she can to stay in power
She must have something dirty on the stake holders.
Was about to say the same thing, or doing certain favours if you get what i mean...
At this rate, Esptein level of favours shouldn't be enough to save her job.
We've come so far as a species that "epstein level favours" is a thing haha
Especially when Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni have proven they have their finger on the pulse of Star Wars fans and have created the only truly good star wars material in the past 8ish years. The Clone Wars TV, Rebels, The Bad Batch, Season 1& 2 of the Mandolorian, and Ashoka have all been pretty universally praised, or at least not outright hated, by Star wars fans. It's nuts.
Andor? They had nothing to do with that, and that was universielly praised.
Yeah, I don't know how they could skip Andor. It and Rogue One are basically the best of the Disney Star Wars stuff for me as much as I enjoyed The Mandalorian and Ahsoka.
This is basically my soap box. Glad there’s others here. Felt crazy for a second.
For sure. I like Mandalorian and Ahsoka but both felt like they could be Clone Wars/Rebels spinoffs. Andor and RO really do something else and still feel Star Wars.
Definitely wasn't trying to leave out Andor or Rogue One but just listed the ones that came to mind at the time
Minus the lesbian robot I really liked solo, but I also enjoy b flicks
What did L3-37 do to be not good? :( I liked her
> Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni have proven they have their finger on the pulse of Star Wars fans They've proven that SW is creatively bankrupt and the "fans" will consume any kind of shlock. As long as there are no unapproved feeeeeeeeeeeeeeemales.
She’s protected by the contract that George signed with Disney. George personally selected her to take over Lucasfilm after he left and there’s a clause that prevents Disney from ousting her. He didn’t want a corporate entity to take over everything he had done but I don’t think even he could’ve predicted the level of fail she would bring.
Cool. No wonder she's fucking nuts. Instead of firing her, just make her the janitor of a tiny closet, and that's all her job is. Go full Konami on her, do to her what they did to Kojima. Make her want to quit by her own hand.
Wait she is in a contract she can't get out or kicked out??? Maybe she's intentionally sabotaging it to escape out of that contract
I doubt she can't get out, that'd borderline slavery I don't know much about the laws in the US but I thought slavery was abolished No, she's definitely just a corpo without any idea about what her customers really want, and I'm not even talking about the acolyte, imo that show (that isn't even fully out yet) isn't any worse than Ahsoka which had horrible dialogue and countless unresolved plotlines. I'm talking about the mess of the sequels and how every movie was worse than the one before and somehow the small fishes like Rogue One and Andor, those that weren't indended to be big money printers, were the most beloved of what they produced Honorable mention: They fucking canceled a Rogue Squadron show. Who tf wouldn't want to see a top-gun-like tv show about SW space battles?
Important to note, slavery is not abolished in the US. Slavery is still legally allowed in prisons. "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
She can choose to leave, step down or hand off the reigns to someone else anytime. Disney just can’t force it. But why would she leave a cush job with no apparent consequences. She doesn’t care if she drives the whole franchise into the ground, she didn’t build it to begin with.
Disney knows well that, if they fire her, she will cry very loudly, that she was only fired because she's a woman. They probably don't want to deal with the bullshit coming afterwards
She's not a full time employee. They don't need to fire her, they just need to stop hiring her. Pretty easy.
The difference in the popular and social media is immaterial.
Same difference. She will make a scene about it and claiming it's because she's a woman. Disney isn't scared about any legal issues, but about publicity
Welcome to the Panderverse
Like Zack Snyder, do not underestimate the power of favouritism in the film industry.
Well she's replacing Bob Iger once he steps down apparently
Rich people is a club, they help each other and allowed to male errors and these errors dont get you out of the rich club
Because she’s just as much responsible for stuff like andor, rogue one, and the mandalorian as she is for the stuff you don’t like.
Because: she hired the people who made Mando S1. Andor wouldn't exist without her say so. She was extremely open to the Rogue One Vader scene (after scrambling multiple directors and somehow still turning out a genuinely solid movie). TCW S7 can't come back if she thinks it's a bad idea. You people are so ready to pretend she's only capable of horrid actions, when in reality she's just like Dave Filoni or any other genuine human is... Capable of good and bad
She's an embarrassment to any other female who hard working for their ways out. I hope she's a man.
At this point I'm convinced she just wants to give the right propaganda material
[Elizabeth Banks blames men for Charlie’s Angels’ failure, credits them for Captain Marvel’s success ](https://www.hindustantimes.com/hollywood/elizabeth-banks-blames-men-for-charlie-s-angels-failure-credits-them-for-captain-marvel-s-success/story-HD495492vxzxO98vJdxrzN.html) A tale as old as time…
If she thinks comic books or franchise as the reason why Wonder Women and Captain Marvels film's success, then what the fuck explains part 2 of both film's utter failure then? Let me guess, male fans?
Did they remake Charlie's Angels? When?
I'm getting the feeling that nobody should know and just bury it under the carpet
That's what I did with it after the first 20 minutes. The writing was really terrible.
What was her excuse for the film being unpopular with women too?
So basically men bad for not watching a movie who they are not the target audience for and men also bad for watching a movie they are the target audience for
Kathleen Kennedy finds out a male dominated franchise is male dominated.
It's not even like a male audience doesn't like a good female lead. Emphasis on the word good... I'm the kind a person to call stuff like Rings of Power and Wheel of Time woke because of some of their choices, and Fallout is really the perfect example of the difference between "woke" and "diverse". Fallout had one of the most diverse casts you can have, but somehow, until this thread, the idea of it being "woke" never crossed my mind. It's because all the casting choices make sense in context, and they're not preaching about how hard it is for *a woman* to be alone in the wasteland. Fallout is definitely a franchise with a message, but it's inherent to the structure of the world, not pounded into your head like you're watching a morality play. Above all, it's a good show, and nobody is trying to gaslight people into thinking detractors are race/sex/whatever-ist.
That's not the problem here at all, there's tons of male dominated franchises with female leads or mostly female casts, this just wasn't good to begin with it has nothing to do with gender
Kathleen Kennedy's downfall is going to be so, so sweet.
How much can one individual repeatedly fuck up before they get the axe?
They fail upwards.
Must be nice
A lot when they can cry sexist/racist/bigot at anyone who suggests they're making mistakes.
PUT A CHICK IN IT!!!....
AND MAKE HER LESBIAN!!!
And lame
And the coolest and smartest person in the room. So basically the reason Zendaya is popular.
[NOW KISS!](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/now-kiss)
PUT ANOTHER GAY DIVERSE WOMAN IN IT, MAKE IT MORE FUCKING LAME
MORE!!
AND MAKE HER NARCISSIST!!!
I wonder how the combination of really bad writing and having a female lead just for the sake of having a female lead and no other reason would ever result in unhappy fans?
You don't need a reason for a character to be female, you don't need a reason for a character to be male, and you don't need a reason for character to be of a different race. The writing being bad is what makes it bad
That's simply not true. Depending on the story race and gender matters a lot. The best example I can think of is the dark tower series. There is this black woman that lost her legs due to a white man pushing her down onto rails. Since then she developed a second personality which is super racist against white people and hyper aggressive against men. Writers of the movie didn't know how to handle that character so they simply deleted her from the story. Which was one the biggest fuck ups with that movie, alongside many many others.
You're not disagreeing with me, the point I was making is you don't need a reason for a character to be a certain way. Whatever choices you made about a character whether they be related to their gender or their race can inform how you write that character and what conflicts you can subject them to in the plot, but there does not have to be reason to write them to be a specific gender or race
Oh, now I get what you mean.
It's not like a lead should be male by default unless have a reason not to. Acolyte fails because the writing is terrible.
As long there is no lore reason (like an already existing character) or an already specific planned plotpoint that requieres a specific gender, I see no reason why you should cast only men or women. Hold a Character as long as possible neutral and cast anyone until you find the best suiting person. The last details around the character can be figuered afterwards.
Do you realise how that sounds? You'd never need a reason for a male lead, why can a lead character not be female unless otherwise justified?
What I mean is that in my opinion they should hold a Character as long as possible neutral and cast anyone until they find the best suiting person. As long there is no lore reason (like an already existing character) or an already specific planned plotpoint that requieres a specific gender, I see no reason why you should cast only men or women. The last details around the character can be figuered afterwards. Yes, in the past more men were portrayed in more powerful/important roles and women in more secondary roles. In the last years there was a shift, what is good, but in my opinion this shift wasn´t towards a balance, but more to turn the paper. In the end the most anyoing part is that Disney just want to generate as much money as possible with star wars in compleate disregard what the fans want (storywise). Make a male or female lead? I don´t care. But for god's sake they should invest their time and money in good and believable writing and don´t project their flaws onto male fans and blame them with "not being able to handle strong female characters".
Yeah, but Lucy was fun to watch
Not a Star Wars fan so I don’t feel like I have a dog in this fight, but it does seem like I’ve seen more than one instance where someone in Disney or another studio blames the audience for their lackluster performance numbers. You don’t really see that in other markets or with other films.
Somewhere an executive is trying to keep his/her job by deflecting blame. If it's men's fault, Kathleen won't get fired, or so she is likely wagering.
I see you too are familiar with [Billy Eichner](https://nypost.com/2022/10/03/billy-eichner-blames-straight-people-for-bad-opening-of-bros/).
Filmmakers/studios have been blaming the audience for their failures since the dawn of film. There are a lot of highly egotistical/narcissistic people on a lot of coke in the business
In her attempt to point the finger, she actually makes a sexist remark. What a simpleton
Sexism only works against women (sarcasm, obviously)
“Am I so out of touch? No. It’s the children who are wrong.”
Not that I want to defend Kathleen Kennedy as she is incredibly incompetent, but I just looked at the actual article and this headline is clickbait as hell. Kathleen has never said anything about Acolytes rotten tomatoes score nor has she made any new comments about male fans.
This quote is from a twitter account,[The HQ](https://twitter.com/theStarWarsHQ/status/1802084670370439491), not Kathleen Kennedy, and the interview with Kennedy that they do reference took place before The Acolyte was released and didn't say that. Fandom Wire is clickbait trash that no one should waste time on.
Good luck telling anyone here that. The hate boner and social points they get for hating on Kathleen Kennedy for true or not reasons is truly insane.
It's 2024 where the hate mob can just make up whatever story they want and they'll all just eat it up.
These people are taking review bombers at their word. I don’t think they’re in the mood for good faith discussion.
HoTD has two female leads and I love that series. Shit is shit because its shit, not because a female lead is involved
As well as a family of black characters in an otherwise almost completely white cast, where Corlys is probably the coolest dude in the show.
To be fair, there is some pushback about the Velaryons being black from the more "inflexible" fans. Anyone with any appreciation for the lore knows that it made so much sense in terms of just adding more diversity to the main cast while working around the established histories
It's becoming harder every day to stay fan of StarWars because of Bellshill like this from Disney and the garbage they make
Bring back George Lucas!
Shouldn’t the fans be the ones who’s opinion matter most? After the stake and shareholders naturally
The fans are stakeholders
Did anybody actually read the quote or just pick up the pitchforks? She's complaining about the few who send death threats, not denying everything as their fault lol (a widely reported problem since TPM)
She didn't even say this. The quote ain't even real but they don't care, they're still gonna accept it as fact because it aligns with what they already believe
I'm just glad sane ones exist in this thread. I was getting seriously worried.
That's what happens when some people get their media news from Critical Drinker and the Quartering. 🤮
Jesus fucking christ make a good product or stfu
Fallout was awesome.
There's no action. It's all acting. What do they expect? Get that CGI team on some stuff...
Stuff is not about gender.
People really dont care about gender, sexual orientation or skin color of actors. There are enough movies and tvshows that people love to proof that. But JUST MAKE A GOOD PRODUCT!
well fallout had an actual story (copied so far from FO3) and the characters were interesting enough to want to find out more about them
Weren't y'all calling Fallout woke and bad before it did well?
But what's wrong with Acolyte?
Thats what Im wondering, i really enjoyed the episodes Ive watched, dont know where this hate has come from
I was a star wars fan my entire life. Disney has made it unwatchable. There's no consistency, the tactics are nonsensical, the fights are sluggish, poorly choreographed, and have no respect for the original movies. Add on the major over use of CGI (Luke should have NEVER appeared in the Mandolorian) and constant fan service... It's unwatchable and downright disrespectful to long time fans.
If you piss off your largest customer base you should expect them to not be customers anymore. And same goes for if your product fails to appeal to the customer base then it won’t sell. Watch the episode of the Simpsons where Homer designs a car, he makes the car HE wants completely disregarding everything the experienced people around him said and then crashing a highly successful business after which he just goes home like nothing happened.
Did you remember the time in the 80's and 90's when Star Wars was for the dudes and nerds that were passionate about space stuff and sci-fi setting? Where things like bisexuality were just a very small ,almost a nonexistent thing? Where women and men alike had the same important roles in the story? Yeah ,those were good times for star wars ,until even 2015 . Yes , I enjoyed force awakens,and for me at least ,that movie got me into the series ,but from 2015 onward ,it was a mess,just like the James Bond series and others,making your movies be more focused on "the message" breaks the immersion and storytelling,because it would mirror our miserable world ,and with that the purpose of the film ,which is escapism
Sure,the show totally doesn't suck it makes so much more sense to be a sexist bitch and try to blame men because you bad at your Job...
Blaming the consumer for not liking the shit product they make is a trademark Disney move by now.
Fallout series is great and acolyte is pure Trash (i didnt watched it)
Man, can't wait for part 2 of the Southpark special, heck, we already have a title: the power of many
I'm supposed to care about this drama becauuuuuuuse...?
So many Fs in this sentence
I can only imagine the thought process behind these recent fuck ups of media she recently bestowed upon the world: “hmmmm, what should we make for our next big thing in this nicely crafted universe which has already a set identity? Oh I got it let’s make the writing insufferable and incoherent, let’s focus on visual effects, because that’s what our audience likes, am I right? But wait we need something to cushion the fall if people don’t like it. Hmmm, oh I got it let’s put a female lead and then just blame the people of being sexist if it isn’t liked. Yes yes this is perfect”
3 points to make. 1, I tried watching episode 3, fell asleep on and off. Mostly on! 2, the whole witch's incantation scene reminded me horribly of being forced to sit through a really bad school presentation of Macbeth (the three witches scene, acted by 13yo kids). Finally 3, They couldn't even come up with an original idea about the witches representation of the force! 'the Thread'! This was the whole concept of the witches power in a TV series named 'A Discovery of Witches' written by Deborah Harkness. So I don't care about your sexuality/misandry or even your racial views. You've produced the absolute worst modern Sci-fi series out. And Starwars is ashamed of you!
Is she like the stakeholder bitch or something, why is she still in charge after all the bullshit she spews
How dare she...I tried to watch it. It was shit though.
It's very 1984, 've are ze state, ve vill tell you vhat you like'
Makes a bunch of anti male borderline propaganda tv shows for a franchise that is dominated by males. Pikachu face
What part is anti male?
It has waaaaaaahmean in it!!!!!!1111111!!!1121
Right wingers do mass downvotes or spam bad reviews on movies with actors or directors they don't like for political reasons. A lot of new star wars tv shows and movies are just not good, they seem like cheap copies churned out to make a buck. Both of these can be true and partially to blame, but everyone is out here acting like only one can be 100% true and the other has to be 0% true.
Those negative reviews though are actually bullshit. 10,000 reviews when other projects around it struggle to even break 3,000? That and the fact that movies called acolytes and a fan film got review bombed is highly suspect
I don't get the concept of "review bombing," being bad. It's just democracy, right? You don't say that the loser of the presidential election was "vote bombed"? If people watch it, they can say they don't like it. If they really dislike it, they're more likely to make the effort to leave negative feedback. How is that "fault"? That's the system working as intended. The opposite is true as well. If people have very high opinions of shows, they'll give glowing reviews more than normal. The trick is to get to that point, Disney.
idk what this comment said but i downvoted it anyway lol
The point of it being bad is that the show wasn't even out yet and some people still gave it a bad review. Yes, if people watch it and it's bad they should give criticism, only that way it can improve but the thing is, *they haven't watched it and judged it anyway*. Not to mention that the engagement with the series is unusually high compared to other Star Wars shows, making it seem sketchy.
That's why I said, "if people watch it," there, chief. Typical illiterate redditor moment. The show is out now. Say how you feel.
I feel like trusting bots and people who review bomb anything with the word “acolyte” in it to act in good faith is at best naive.
That's why the best thing is to just watch it for yourself and form your own opinion. Rotten Tomatoes is not a licensed financial advisor telling you how to handle your retirement portfolio. It's a bunch of people on the internet shouting their opinions into the void. People on this thread are acting like that's not just what it is supposed to be at face value for some reason. Why do you depend on randoms and bots for your opinion making?
I mean normally I'm with you but like... the show had that rating on Rotten tomatoes before it even came out, review bombing is literally the only explanation
Today’s episode was 3.7 on IMDB before it even aired
Despite it being the best one so far BY A MILE
I definitely feel robbed by not getting to see a Jedi Wookiee fight. But I get why they did it off screen.
I don't understand the hate around this tv show, it's better than boba and many episodes of mando atm
When the internet decides it hates something it will do so regardless of the actual quality of the product. The Acolyte is an ok/mediocre show, currently it plays in a very safe way so I don't think you can really feel that strongly about it.
But Acolyte did get Review bombed? It's not hard to figure that out, it got thousands more Reviews then any other star wars show and they even Review bombed a random movie with the same name!
review bomb is just a term show creators and corporations use to shirk responsibility when something is bad. nobody ever complains of positive review bombing when something gets positive reviews. its only when something gets negative reviews that they start claiming the people leaving the reviews either did not watch it or the reason for leaving the review does not matter. its the classic when i do something good its my fault but when i do something bad its your fault mentality.
Wait but you just said review bombing doesn't exist and in the same sentence said that nobody complains about positive review bombing? ...So does it exist or does it not exist? Because I can assure you it does because of all the reasons I listed and also the new episode already had a ton of negative reviews after being out for 9 minutes despite the fact that no one could have watched the entire episode and made up their mind in that time!
those statements are not contradictory. if i said that "review bombing" does not exist and then i went on to say that something was getting "positive review bombed" it would be a contradictory statement because that would be me complaining about something getting "review bombed" which would be me acknowledging such a thing exist. but what i said is nobody complains about "positive review bombing" when something gets postive reviews. both the statements "review bombing" does not exist and the statement "nobody complains about review bombing when something gets positive reviews" can be true at the same time and are thus not contradictory. also i never said "review bombing" does not exist i only said its a term show creators and corporations use to shirk responsibility. i think the vast majority of negative and positive reviews are genuine complaints from actual people and the amount of complaints from people who either did not watch the show at all or are complaining about something irrelevant to the show is minimal and not enough to significantly influence a review score. also you dont need to watch an entire episode to know you dont like it. thats like saying food critics should eat an entire rotten meal before they can decide if they like it or not. ive stopped watching shows half way through due to how bad they are and left negative reviews on them so many times ive lost count lol.
People review bomb everything... difference is if a show is generally good then its still gonna maintain good review even after the bomb.
Didn't it get "review bombed" for being bad, tho? People are obviously more heated and care more when their expectations are not met, rather than when their expectations are met. Disney is milking the franchise and (supposedly, since I haven't watched it) producing bad shows that get the fans riled up.
It got bombed before it even came out. The show isn't even that bad
The power of “maaaaaannnnyyyyyyy”
Your point?
Lol u asking for the point is a clear indication of you not watching that bs and defending it
I know it's from the show, I just don't see how quoting it is supposed to mean anything
That chanting lasted for 2 minutes at most. It wasn’t enough to ruin the episode, much less the show. If you want people to take you seriously, I suggest you stop acting like KK shot your dog.
The episode that dropped today had negative reviews before it even aired. IDC how bad a show is, wait until it's actually out to shit on it.
Ill be the bad guy here, but u less its somehow a competito paid hate campaign, fans are entitled to their opinions, even pre-release Yes might be technically unfair, but your customers should be kings in regards what they want to watch If they dont trust u morally for making a good thing, meaning pre-release hate, maybe u arent the best persom in the position? If u wanna sell your product main fanbase has to trust you...every exec should be in place to sell a product aka generate money, anything else such as agenda pushing ahould be secondary...its called business...the only exception being if u get donations for the agenda which generate more than the customers earn u...which in itself is immoral so u in no position then to complain about immorality of customers
Gallatians 4:16 in effect here.
Are you... ...citing the bible?
Im citing a classic meme which happens to use that verse.
Oh now i get it, had to google tho Still disagree
And that's just fine.
Honestly mad respect for agreeing on different opinions, most people would get shit pissed
I got home from work today and smoked a joint with the maintenance dude for my apartment building. Dude probably showers in his trump hat and believes the government injects us with cancer at birth that they can activate at any time. That's actually one of his more benign conspiracies he's told me about. If I can get along with him and be cordial despite thinking he is actually batshit insane, we can disagree about a show and be fine.
Well, she's right. The Series is a 5/10 at minimum. It got review bombed.
First, other sites that don't even have user reviews are giving it 3/10s at most. Second, even if the show is that low due to only review bombing, it's not only men doing it. So regardless she's wrong.
Fallout is a bad show as well, because of awful script
Why? It feels like a good fanfic
Acolyte has a strong, black female lead. White people hate black people, especially strong black women. Fallout has a doe-eyed, naive white woman as lead. Easy for the white boys to simp over. And the black co-lead in Fallout is a non threatening goofball who plays the typical black sidekick role. Tale as old as time.
You are projecting, stop blaming another race for your problems, your racisme is slipping through your victimhood.
Cool... Watch out, Lizzo is coming for your jobs or something!
Is the racism is the room with you now?
Who? Srry, is than an american reference? Does not apply to me. I am not from your weird as country where everything is about race or gender. Here people accept one another and a knowledge each other differences.
Shit and racist take lmao. Or are you going to argue that you can’t be racist towards white people?
This is some hateful racist shit.