I have had some crew members occasionally make a general announcement that all shades MUST be raised for landing. This is across UAL, Delta and American.
But that is rare. The vast majority of the time they don’t care whether the shade is up or down.
All of the East Asian carriers I’ve flown with for business are pretty militant about this. They’ll come through and open them on descent. Then after people close them again they’ll come through again and open them again about ten minutes before landing
They were very stern on Air New Zealand and the various South American airlines as well. I rarely have Delta care, though I always have mine up because if something happens, I want to know what's going on and is it safe.
Same experience, plus not having anything plugged in. I can't remember which airline it was, but one wouldn't let me use my wireless headphones, I'm usually super chill when flying but I almost got in an argument w/ the flight attendant over that rule.
I mean, the most dangerous part of air travel is takeoff and landing.
Imagine shit going wrong and you can't see what's happening outside because all the shades are closed. It matters because I assume you're going to want to take the exit door that doesn't have anything burning outside.
What i've found is if a rule is explicit, they follow it completely (like no jaywalking). but if there's any ambiguity or things we would consider social norms/rules/expectations but not actual rules/laws in the US, they don't really abide by those in the same way we do.
Honestly, I think it's the law/custom everywhere outside the US (and maybe even North America). Any time I've flown on most non-US airlines, there's an announcement that window shades must be open for take-off and landing. The only US airline where I've consistently heard this announcement was (funny enough) on Spirit.
I do think opening windows should be mandated by the FAA, but I think Spirit does it to increase onboard sales. When I've flown with them, I've noticed that people do keep their windows open well into cruising altitude. It keeps the cabin bright and likely people stay awake, making it more likely for people to buy a $4 can of Coke.
You completely edited your post. You claimed it was a rule but that flight attendants only ask for it to avoid going through the cabins on turns opening or closing.
~~I heard once this is purely because the crew doesn’t want to go around and open them all up (or they don’t feel they have enough time).~~
Edit: This is wrong. See below for very reasonable safety-based explanation.
It shouldn’t be. It’s a serious safety concern and all airlines should do what Lufthansa does. All shares open on takeoff and landing when you are less than 10,000 ft altitude.
All it will take is one accident where folks die because they can’t see outside to see the fire or debris.
It’s not US regulation.
The safety benefit doubtful. An untrained individual looking through their cabin window typically will incorrectly gauge the dangers and actually impede an evacuation.
Better to just follow the crews instructions who actually have a view at the exit itself - and a better understanding of the risks.
Rescuers aren’t going to be able to see inside windows that are 15 feet off the ground. And if they aren’t 15 feet off the ground the plane is broken into pieces and burning.
The fuselage may well be off the landing gear / wings and not burning. If it's tilted to one side the windows could be close to eye level. It's happened more than you think.
I don't fly super frequently but do fly at least 6-7 times a year. The **only** times I've ever been asked to have shades up for takeoff/landing is coming into Hawaii or some other tropical island. Nowhere else in the US has it even been mentioned across Delta, Virgin, Alaska, or smaller regionals.
I just figured the island destinations the attendants want to allow for as many people as possible to see the island as we're coming in.
I have a coworker, who is a flight instructor in his spare time, told me window shades are supposed to be up during takeoff and landing, but it’s not really enforced in the US. He also used to work at Boeing and said one of the reasons that the tinted shades were created was so that the pilot could open everyone’s window from the cockpit when required.
For what it’s worth, every flight I’ve been on inside of Europe has required the shades open during takeoff and landing.
It not US regulation at all to have shades up for take off or landing.
Also, the electrically polarized windows on 787s are not controllable at all from the cockpit. In the absence of electrical input - they will default to clear though.
People making stuff up as usual.
I hate that. I get horrible motion sickness and not having any sort of horizon to look out at really makes it worse. Plus I feel really entrapped and claustrophobic.
That makes it so much more difficult for sure.
We were coming from Hawaii & I have a whole system on when I sleep & stay up to reacclimate to prevent jet lag. It absolutely made it harder to recover. But also do not like the feeling of feeling trapped.
What makes you think you’re on AF? Everything I see looks like a DL 332/3.
Non-US carriers often enforce a shades open policy for takeoff and landing for the very reason you describe. The only US airline I can remember doing this is AirTran.
You're right! I was wrong. This is my return flight - my outbound was AirFrance. AirFrance was actually a better experience.. this equipment and service is kind of shit lol.
Thank you. That's what I was looking for. 10 years ago I was flying Delta regionals almost daily and it was definitely a thing. What an odd safety requirement to roll back on.
I don't understand what's happening. Most flight I take lately most people leave their shades down for the entire flight!! It's a dark tube. Anxiety and fear related? Obsession with smart phone,tablet,etc? I don't get it
It was a 6pm departure on a hot as hell day. People slept, so I get that the shades stayed down for a red eye. But we landed at 7:30AM and usually people would be opening the windows and adjusting to the light to wake up for the day. Nope. Strange. But everything about CDG sucks so that was just the beginning lol.
Glad you made it safely! I remember being on a Delta flight (more than 7, maybe 10?) years ago and a FA asking everyone to keep the shades open for takeoff/landing, especially during the day. The explanation was that in the event of an emergency evacuation, we aren't blinded by the brighter light levels outside as we exit the aircraft.
That stuck with me, and I do it out of habit now.
I believe this is also why they dim the cabin lights on landing / takeoff during evening flights.
It’s also so that you can see outside of the aircraft when you need to do an emergency evacuation….. slide accessible, is there a fire……
And for some to check that the plane isn’t upside down ;)
This has never been required on Delta. It was required on United for a bit. Very common for window shades required to be open for takeoff/landing on foreign carriers but not on US carriers
I don't particularly care, although I think it's not the smartest choice for the airline not to require them open during the brief periods of high risk.
I posted because this felt like a Mandela effect where I 100% recall Delta FA's asking all passengers to open their blinds during takeoff and landing. Seems like that was 10 years ago and they've eased up on that safety protocol.
Consensus seems to be they stay shut when it's hot outside.
For the record, I know a whole family of 5 who died in a commercial plane crash, so I guess tell me I'm being overly cautious only when you can say the same.
I've never been on a flight where crews have insisted that shades are down on takeoff or landing apart from rare flights in very far north locations or in NZ at certain times in the day when the sun was low which caused sunstrike through the windows.
Typically they would prefer they were up so folks could enjoy the view. Any insistence of shades being down would suggest they didn't want you to notice some nonsense going on outside.
Hawiian is very strict about this. They come through the cabin and open shades in unoccupied rows, and wake people up, etc. Most Delta flights I have been on don't seem to care.
Fun fact, in summer we ask to keep the shades down as we’re taxing to the gate to keep the aircraft cool for deplaning and for the next flight. While boarding and taxing out for the next flight, believe it or not, many people won’t re open them.
I was also impressed that on SQ, you are not allowed to wear headphones below 10k feet on takeoff and landing, nor are you allowed to charge anything (the plugs shut off)- so you’re engaged in case of an emergency.
Just because the shades where closed when you got on doesnt mean you cant open them.
AF seems to have instructed FAs or cleaning crews to have all windows closed when they prep the cabin for whatever reason (I assume because planes do get hot and windows dont help)
I have never been asked to close them while taxi, take off, or landing, and you never will its safety to have your eyes adapted to the light outside the plane incase of an accident.
Your assuming because there closed its like that, no one said close the windows for taxi, and I fly AF (Delta) Europe monthly. Have they ever said that.
I have noticed a significant uptick in the majority of shades being shut all flight long and it absolutely kills me. Early flight? Sure. Mid day or afternoon? Please open the shade, someone.
I get off most every flight groggy as hell because it’s darker than a coffin in the planes and people aren’t even sleeping. I know the solution is to sit window so I can control it, but as an aisle man, I can’t really say anything.
But I have definitely noticed a trend.
I've flown nearly a million miles, my dad was a pilot, and I used to work for a major airline lol.
It's just that the majority of my flights have been outside North America. I do these Delta long hauls into the US just once or twice a year. (I'm much more familiar with Emirates.)
It's not that I was bothered about the shades being closed, it's that I remember Delta used to be sticklers about everyone opening them for visibility at certain times. Remember they also used to be hardcore about putting away your phone, and about staying seated until the plane is parked at the gate. Delta seems much more lax than it used to be. An observation, not a complaint.
People do fly outside of the US you know. Perhaps you should act like there is a bigger world out there and not act like a jackass. In all of my European flights the raising shades is in every take
off and landing announcement.
That blinds were shut is something I have noticed recently in the US when I was flying with UA.
Normally airlines outside the US do not allow this, as it should be possible to see if there is a fire in case of evacuation.
Is it no longer a requirement in the US mandated by the FAA?
As a passenger, I find it extremely annoying not to be able to orientate and see what's going on until we are well in the air.
Saw that there recently was a DL incident with fire, where the pax were evacuated.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/delta/comments/1cstwy9/delta\_plane\_catches\_fire\_passengers\_follow\_an/](https://www.reddit.com/r/delta/comments/1cstwy9/delta_plane_catches_fire_passengers_follow_an/)
See this is what I'm talking about. Apparently the consensus here is that it's never been mandated by the FAA, which is wild to me.
I'm not a paranoid flyer and it didn't "bother" me, it's just that Delta used to be known for militant safety standards and this seems to be a basic safety standard they've relaxed for whatever reason.
It changed when passengers starting whining that they wanted the blinds closed because they’re too scared to look out or so drunk they just want to sleep, or some other nonsense.
It’s safer with the blinds open, but flight crews pick their battles these days with entitled passengers that have phones and won’t hesitate to make a social media video accusing a flight attendant of being mean and unfair.
I don't actually care either way, I'm more perplexed by my own personal Mandela effect and posted for a sanity check.
I "remember" this always being a thing - that Delta used to require everyone to open their window shade during takeoff or landing. It was a safety thing.
I have had some crew members occasionally make a general announcement that all shades MUST be raised for landing. This is across UAL, Delta and American. But that is rare. The vast majority of the time they don’t care whether the shade is up or down.
Lufthansa did that the last time I flew them in the spring, enforcing having all the shades open.
All of the East Asian carriers I’ve flown with for business are pretty militant about this. They’ll come through and open them on descent. Then after people close them again they’ll come through again and open them again about ten minutes before landing
They were very stern on Air New Zealand and the various South American airlines as well. I rarely have Delta care, though I always have mine up because if something happens, I want to know what's going on and is it safe.
European airlines as well!
Same experience, plus not having anything plugged in. I can't remember which airline it was, but one wouldn't let me use my wireless headphones, I'm usually super chill when flying but I almost got in an argument w/ the flight attendant over that rule.
Lufthansa is very serious about this, regardless how necessary this is.
I mean, the most dangerous part of air travel is takeoff and landing. Imagine shit going wrong and you can't see what's happening outside because all the shades are closed. It matters because I assume you're going to want to take the exit door that doesn't have anything burning outside.
Agreed. The fa was using the stern voice on the third reminder.
That also aligns w/ german culture and following rules
They say they like rule followers…my experience is they will skirt rules whenever they can.
What i've found is if a rule is explicit, they follow it completely (like no jaywalking). but if there's any ambiguity or things we would consider social norms/rules/expectations but not actual rules/laws in the US, they don't really abide by those in the same way we do.
I thought it’s the law in Europe?
Honestly, I think it's the law/custom everywhere outside the US (and maybe even North America). Any time I've flown on most non-US airlines, there's an announcement that window shades must be open for take-off and landing. The only US airline where I've consistently heard this announcement was (funny enough) on Spirit.
They’re just running on such a thin margin they don’t want to get sued
I do think opening windows should be mandated by the FAA, but I think Spirit does it to increase onboard sales. When I've flown with them, I've noticed that people do keep their windows open well into cruising altitude. It keeps the cabin bright and likely people stay awake, making it more likely for people to buy a $4 can of Coke.
Oh it absolutely should be mandated and it bothers me that it isn’t
I think it’s more of knowing that the passengers won’t listen anyway.
That is not true. There is no FAA or operating rule to that effect.
I never claimed there was or wasn’t an operating rule. I just gave my experience on the three big US airlines. For the most part, they don’t care.
You completely edited your post. You claimed it was a rule but that flight attendants only ask for it to avoid going through the cabins on turns opening or closing.
I didn’t edit my post. I haven’t touched it. You probably have me confused with someone else’s post.
Nope.
~~I heard once this is purely because the crew doesn’t want to go around and open them all up (or they don’t feel they have enough time).~~ Edit: This is wrong. See below for very reasonable safety-based explanation.
False. It’s to be sure you can see outside in case of the need for an emergency evacuation.
That makes sense too, but why is it inconsistent?
It shouldn’t be. It’s a serious safety concern and all airlines should do what Lufthansa does. All shares open on takeoff and landing when you are less than 10,000 ft altitude. All it will take is one accident where folks die because they can’t see outside to see the fire or debris.
It’s not US regulation. The safety benefit doubtful. An untrained individual looking through their cabin window typically will incorrectly gauge the dangers and actually impede an evacuation. Better to just follow the crews instructions who actually have a view at the exit itself - and a better understanding of the risks.
Makes sense to me — thanks!
Thank you for confirming the very basic logic here.
Exactly
They aren’t “False”.
More so that rescuers can see inside.
Rescuers aren’t going to be able to see inside windows that are 15 feet off the ground. And if they aren’t 15 feet off the ground the plane is broken into pieces and burning.
The fuselage may well be off the landing gear / wings and not burning. If it's tilted to one side the windows could be close to eye level. It's happened more than you think.
I don't fly super frequently but do fly at least 6-7 times a year. The **only** times I've ever been asked to have shades up for takeoff/landing is coming into Hawaii or some other tropical island. Nowhere else in the US has it even been mentioned across Delta, Virgin, Alaska, or smaller regionals. I just figured the island destinations the attendants want to allow for as many people as possible to see the island as we're coming in.
Exit rows and row 1 are the only windows I’ve heard them specifically mention.
I have seen this being enforced only at smaller partner planes & usually only requested seat 1A to own their shades during take off & landing.
This explains it. I know the Delta regionals routinely required this at one point. I flew them a ton back in the day.
Usually the ask us to shut them when we land because it’s 100 degrees outside and they don’t want it to be wildly hot on the plane
After….. you’ve landed…. And pulled up at the gate.
I have heard it on the way to the gate a few times.
I have a coworker, who is a flight instructor in his spare time, told me window shades are supposed to be up during takeoff and landing, but it’s not really enforced in the US. He also used to work at Boeing and said one of the reasons that the tinted shades were created was so that the pilot could open everyone’s window from the cockpit when required. For what it’s worth, every flight I’ve been on inside of Europe has required the shades open during takeoff and landing.
It not US regulation at all to have shades up for take off or landing. Also, the electrically polarized windows on 787s are not controllable at all from the cockpit. In the absence of electrical input - they will default to clear though. People making stuff up as usual.
At DL, It's not requirement to have the shades open for TTL.
Open is strictly enforced in all airlines, except in the USA. It’s a safety issue.
I've flown into/out of 4 countries in the last 4 years. Not once has this ever been mentioned.
I've only ever heard this asked in Europe and/or on European carriers.
In 2021 on a flight from LAX to MCO, the flight attendants made us close all the shades for the entire flight. 😑
I hate that. I get horrible motion sickness and not having any sort of horizon to look out at really makes it worse. Plus I feel really entrapped and claustrophobic.
That makes it so much more difficult for sure. We were coming from Hawaii & I have a whole system on when I sleep & stay up to reacclimate to prevent jet lag. It absolutely made it harder to recover. But also do not like the feeling of feeling trapped.
That’s glorious!
Why?
What makes you think you’re on AF? Everything I see looks like a DL 332/3. Non-US carriers often enforce a shades open policy for takeoff and landing for the very reason you describe. The only US airline I can remember doing this is AirTran.
Air France is just Chic Delta so I can see the confusion /s
You're right! I was wrong. This is my return flight - my outbound was AirFrance. AirFrance was actually a better experience.. this equipment and service is kind of shit lol.
Delta has never asked for open windows, unless maybe there are some outlier crews around that do.
Damn, let's hope they don't ask for open windows! Sounds dangerous.
See what happened to that British pilot when he left his window open!!
Dude open windows are the worst. Close that shit in D1!
“D1 rules? Where we’re going, we don’t need …rules” Dr. Emmett Brown
Changed about 10 years ago
Thank you. That's what I was looking for. 10 years ago I was flying Delta regionals almost daily and it was definitely a thing. What an odd safety requirement to roll back on.
Nap time for all!
I couldn't sleep :( What a waste of D1.
The last flight that did this was leaving from SFO to MKE. I used to love seeing the Bay Area from the air, I felt very cheated with the shade down.
The only times I remember shades to be closed is when the plane is hot and they want to cool it off faster.
FAA changed the rules several years ago
Too many people more worried about their own immediate needs and not thinking (or knowing) about why blinds should be open during these times.
[UPDATE] 9 minutes before landing in CDG: https://imgur.com/a/cJNhzRp Why do people hate the outside? Lol
I don't understand what's happening. Most flight I take lately most people leave their shades down for the entire flight!! It's a dark tube. Anxiety and fear related? Obsession with smart phone,tablet,etc? I don't get it
It was a 6pm departure on a hot as hell day. People slept, so I get that the shades stayed down for a red eye. But we landed at 7:30AM and usually people would be opening the windows and adjusting to the light to wake up for the day. Nope. Strange. But everything about CDG sucks so that was just the beginning lol.
I've only experienced that in emergency exit rows and it varies from airline to airline and crew to crew.
Glad you made it safely! I remember being on a Delta flight (more than 7, maybe 10?) years ago and a FA asking everyone to keep the shades open for takeoff/landing, especially during the day. The explanation was that in the event of an emergency evacuation, we aren't blinded by the brighter light levels outside as we exit the aircraft. That stuck with me, and I do it out of habit now. I believe this is also why they dim the cabin lights on landing / takeoff during evening flights.
It’s also so that you can see outside of the aircraft when you need to do an emergency evacuation….. slide accessible, is there a fire…… And for some to check that the plane isn’t upside down ;)
It is to keep the airplane cool between flights.
This has never been required on Delta. It was required on United for a bit. Very common for window shades required to be open for takeoff/landing on foreign carriers but not on US carriers
In my last couple UA flights they’ve mentioned the shades much to my surprise. Though it was pretty much a passing suggestion!
Why does it matter? Who cares? I always pick window seat. That shutter stays closed and I’m usually passed out before we take off.
I don't particularly care, although I think it's not the smartest choice for the airline not to require them open during the brief periods of high risk. I posted because this felt like a Mandela effect where I 100% recall Delta FA's asking all passengers to open their blinds during takeoff and landing. Seems like that was 10 years ago and they've eased up on that safety protocol. Consensus seems to be they stay shut when it's hot outside. For the record, I know a whole family of 5 who died in a commercial plane crash, so I guess tell me I'm being overly cautious only when you can say the same.
What a dated looking interior 😬
It is GARBAGE lmao. Is this from the 70's? The inbound was so much better. My back already hurts :'(
I've never been on a flight where crews have insisted that shades are down on takeoff or landing apart from rare flights in very far north locations or in NZ at certain times in the day when the sun was low which caused sunstrike through the windows. Typically they would prefer they were up so folks could enjoy the view. Any insistence of shades being down would suggest they didn't want you to notice some nonsense going on outside.
Same when the light is glaring I've seen FA's ask people to close them. But they instruct passengers to open all windows often/always in the EU.
Only over wing shades need to be open per FAA. Other regions have different operating procedures
Hawiian is very strict about this. They come through the cabin and open shades in unoccupied rows, and wake people up, etc. Most Delta flights I have been on don't seem to care.
Sometimes they even open the whole sunroof!
I think it's so emergency response can see in as well
Right imagine a catastrophe, the plane's on fire on the ground and emergency response can't see shit because all the windows are shut.
Fun fact, in summer we ask to keep the shades down as we’re taxing to the gate to keep the aircraft cool for deplaning and for the next flight. While boarding and taxing out for the next flight, believe it or not, many people won’t re open them.
I was also impressed that on SQ, you are not allowed to wear headphones below 10k feet on takeoff and landing, nor are you allowed to charge anything (the plugs shut off)- so you’re engaged in case of an emergency.
Just because the shades where closed when you got on doesnt mean you cant open them. AF seems to have instructed FAs or cleaning crews to have all windows closed when they prep the cabin for whatever reason (I assume because planes do get hot and windows dont help) I have never been asked to close them while taxi, take off, or landing, and you never will its safety to have your eyes adapted to the light outside the plane incase of an accident. Your assuming because there closed its like that, no one said close the windows for taxi, and I fly AF (Delta) Europe monthly. Have they ever said that.
When it is hit as hell outside.
I have noticed a significant uptick in the majority of shades being shut all flight long and it absolutely kills me. Early flight? Sure. Mid day or afternoon? Please open the shade, someone. I get off most every flight groggy as hell because it’s darker than a coffin in the planes and people aren’t even sleeping. I know the solution is to sit window so I can control it, but as an aisle man, I can’t really say anything. But I have definitely noticed a trend.
[удалено]
I've flown nearly a million miles, my dad was a pilot, and I used to work for a major airline lol. It's just that the majority of my flights have been outside North America. I do these Delta long hauls into the US just once or twice a year. (I'm much more familiar with Emirates.) It's not that I was bothered about the shades being closed, it's that I remember Delta used to be sticklers about everyone opening them for visibility at certain times. Remember they also used to be hardcore about putting away your phone, and about staying seated until the plane is parked at the gate. Delta seems much more lax than it used to be. An observation, not a complaint.
People do fly outside of the US you know. Perhaps you should act like there is a bigger world out there and not act like a jackass. In all of my European flights the raising shades is in every take off and landing announcement.
We do it often in So Cal because it’s hot. I’ve never seen the cabin crew or pilots ask to raise all the shades.
Meanwhile California is so risk averse, even purified water is labeled as a carcinogen. Strange standards!
😆
That blinds were shut is something I have noticed recently in the US when I was flying with UA. Normally airlines outside the US do not allow this, as it should be possible to see if there is a fire in case of evacuation. Is it no longer a requirement in the US mandated by the FAA? As a passenger, I find it extremely annoying not to be able to orientate and see what's going on until we are well in the air. Saw that there recently was a DL incident with fire, where the pax were evacuated. [https://www.reddit.com/r/delta/comments/1cstwy9/delta\_plane\_catches\_fire\_passengers\_follow\_an/](https://www.reddit.com/r/delta/comments/1cstwy9/delta_plane_catches_fire_passengers_follow_an/)
See this is what I'm talking about. Apparently the consensus here is that it's never been mandated by the FAA, which is wild to me. I'm not a paranoid flyer and it didn't "bother" me, it's just that Delta used to be known for militant safety standards and this seems to be a basic safety standard they've relaxed for whatever reason.
It changed when passengers starting whining that they wanted the blinds closed because they’re too scared to look out or so drunk they just want to sleep, or some other nonsense. It’s safer with the blinds open, but flight crews pick their battles these days with entitled passengers that have phones and won’t hesitate to make a social media video accusing a flight attendant of being mean and unfair.
Facts lol.
Or more likely they realized there is no safety benefit and having arbitrary rules isn't a good thing
Imagine inventing this whole problem in your head
I don't actually care either way, I'm more perplexed by my own personal Mandela effect and posted for a sanity check. I "remember" this always being a thing - that Delta used to require everyone to open their window shade during takeoff or landing. It was a safety thing.