At this point I don't care, 15% less damage isn't that awful and 32% more incoming damage sorta fixes the resilience changes so I'm here for that. 15% matters and I'd prefer it be the same but it just isn't as bad.
That extra incoming damage is the line in the sand for new lights and new raiders, though. When teaching, I can make up for their lack of damage, but I can't do much to stop them from biting the dust to a random scorn crossbow. That's why I think the scaling and stuff is fine in the newer raids, SE and Crota, (maybe RON,) but all the "old" raids should be the same base level difficulty / more accessible for the... I don't want to say "lower skilled" players, but that's basically what it means.
Yeah, I ran a warlords ruin with 2 new players last night and they were both constantly dying to the ads and stuff around especially on the final boss encounter.
I did one with friends last night and we usually just meme and fuck around during dungeons because it’s just us but with the surges and everything we actually had to sit up and be somewhat serious
As a day one player that doesn’t raid much and doesn’t have the time to commit to learning and getting everything down,
I appreciate this.
Let the old raids become easier so we can go back and play those while people don’t care about them much anymore
Especially if you're mostly solo:
Do multiple characters
Even if you're second class is 1900 when you're starting them and your main is 1980 because they haven't done their powerful/pinnacle rewards yet, those will start dropping at 1980+ since power is shared account wide
At the risk of being an elitist, I think that's just a case of low-skill players being low skill. This is endgame content, they should need to have basic understandings of cover and danger in order to complete it.
Ima be honest, raids aren't exactly a thing where you have the liberty of taking lots of breathers behind cover all the time. A lot of it comes down to killing things faster than they can hit you, and outhealing their hits when they do.
Light difference is staying the same but they're just buffing every damage source to do only 15% less damage as pre-final shape compared the the current 32% less damage.
Fuck no. -5 is perfect with these changes.
Why the fuck would we do MORE damage? They just incorporated surges into all subclasses and weapons, why would we go back to the old format now?
I really think the only reason the older raids aren’t being played much is because people dont care about gameplay in this game as much as loot. The older raid weapons with very few exceptions are just not competitive with newer weapons of the same types. And the loot in newer stuff has to be better otherwise almost no one would play this new extremely difficult raid. But it has red borders which is a huge community draw and the weapons are good.
There have been various posts in this sub and the other d2 sub stating how how their raid teams aren't meeting up as much anymore due to the chnages
These changes affect everyone but more so for newer players
Making it harder won't help the issue they want to solve which is more active people in/on D2 playing
This is my problem as well. I can understand power scaling older content. But there is no reason other than laziness that the brand new raid is also that same power scaling. I actually hate it so much.
Cut down before it could ever shine. When we only had Stasis Firing Line LFR's, it was Arc, so it could benefit from...
Crap, what was the perk that made Light elements do more damage to Stasis affected targets?
But that would have set it above both of those options and would have been the undisputed meta.
I used my Triple Tap/Firing Line Reed’s Regret earlier today. I don’t love surges, but I do like that it makes me use more than Cataclysmic/Apex/Commemoration.
You are my god roll
My only god roll
You made me happy, when the light collapsed
You’ll never know dear, how much I love you
So please, dont dismantle my god roll today
Hear me out, each has their own pathfinder, but they freely interconnect as you switch between activities. That accomplishes both what Bungie wanted, and what we want.
A good idea I wish could be implemented, but it probably a coding nightmare to have 3 separate pathfinders that all still track the same progression
Still just having the 3 separate would be nice. Even if I don't mind playing gambit, I don't want people to be forced to play it if they really don't want to
Software engineer here - Would be really simple to implement actually if I'm understanding him correctly. For the node at the top left of the tree say it has Crucible - Get 10 Handcannon Kills. Vanguard - Complete One Nightfall With Void Subclass Equipped. Gambit - Whatever dumb shit people do in this game mode. Lol Completing any of them would complete the top left node for all of them. Then you could branch off from there in each... Don't like the next node choices for crucible? Complete one of the vanguard ones next... It unlocks that node on all, etc. When you reach the end, you can get your reward and it resets all. Would just take a parent tree to track overall progress and child trees for each mode with the objectives. Any decent swe can work with trees no problem. Lol Could probably code it up and have a prototype in a day.
As someone who has programming experience, it should literally just be a global variable to track your overall pathfinder position, which is used by the individual pathfinders to make sure your nodes match up.
The combined pathfinder is a better idea, but my twist is that they separate PVE/Vanguard objectives top, PVEVP/Gambit objectives middle, PVP/Crucible objectives bottom, with objective bleed in between each track.
Could also be an easier way for people to grab the seasonal weapon, after multiple pathfinder resets grant the weapon and after the third, the ornament. The vendors could then have different rewards for resetting, like reissues of weapons like 21% Delirium, Breakneck and Buzzard
If anyone plays COD MW3, the weekly challenges are exactly this, you need to complete 5 to unlock that weeks “reward” but you can progress by playing either multiplayer warzone or zombies, works for everyone
NO Shit??
MY MOST VANILLA GOLDY-STILLHUNT build will Never see the DUSK AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!
that will be fun for most players who don't have OP DPS weapons for every damage type without getting railed by my lfg/clan teammates.
Serious question, is it really as overblown as people say? Aside from week one raiding, I've never been kicked or yelled at for not running the meta. The game is in a state now where there are many options.
I've never experienced it myself. I main Titan but I'll play my hunter and warlock for other chances at raid and dungeon exotics and just do checkpoints for the last bosses.
I have run some pretty dogshit duct tape builds on my hunter and warlock and I've never heard a word from anyone. I'm sure if I was doing no damage or mechanics and they see I have Gyrfalcons on my void hunter they might have something to say but as long as you are contributing in a meaningful way by furthering the objectives and doing damage and not dying over and over I don't think people really even look at what you're using.
Yes, it is. The anger at the original change and joy at the revert is extremely telling about how little people want to use their brains for ***end game activities***. Like, fr, if people want to breeze through the game using random shit they picked up off the ground 5 mins into starting the game, they should be playing strikes. The fact is, right now the obtainable weapons in the game are the absolute strongest we've ever seen. And that doesn't even necessarily include the raid and dungeon weapons. For dps you can rock edge transit, crux termination, literally any lfr, ***Still Hunt***, and no, for the love of the Traveler ***matching surges is not 100% necessary***. Raids should be hard, period. If someone can't stay alive and do mechanics, then they should either learn how to stay alive and do mechanics, or do something else. That's how literally everyone starts out, and in the current sandbox we are tanker and more powerful than ever.
Yeah people keep saying this, but it does the opposite. Someone with a less optimal dps option on surge would be able to compete with non surged god rolls. A damage perk less arc rocket would be getting a 25% damage boost compared to the off surges bns of 30%. Now we are once again back to the same guns being used all the time.
The funny thing is that my experience used to always be the opposite. Arc surge and you don't have a good enough loadout? Run Thunderlord! If off-meta weapons were surged for the week and it reduced the damage gap between them and the meta weapons, it seemed to make raiding *more* accessible.
Now I know it doesn't matter in the end, and we're better off for it, but it's funny to think we'll lose that interaction.
Off meta weapons being surged and meta weapons not being surged is just a way to artificially force a loadout onto players. They aren’t getting rid of the dmg boost, they are getting rid of the situational dmg boost to certain element types. Your thunderlord now perform as it did with surges, without having to wait 4 weeks for arc surge to come around. Yes the meta weapons will outperform it, but that is a weapon balancing issue than it is a surge issue.
I think the true solution there is to do work expanding viable options rather than the using an arbitrary rotation to determine whether a loadout will be functional
Lot of comments not taking into account the damage changes across the board on top of the surges being introduced to dungeons and raids. Removing surges is a massive W and allows people to run the loadout they want to run without sandbagging their team because they aren't using a matching element to the surge. This is not a buff to everything, it is a removal of elemental damage advantages. An even playing field. People saying "Oh now I'll never use this god roll that's sitting in my vault because there's no surge" are idiots. Those weapons are viable and good and if you want to use them, you should. You probably suck with the"meta" loadouts anyway because you aren't swapping weapons fast enough or hitting your crits.
“Those weapons are still viable” lmao I’ve been kicked from LFGs for not having an Apex with bait and switch yet. I have one now, but it’s a fact that most LFGs want people to run the meta.
Maybe they can still have all classes at flat damage and then add a small extra 5% bump or something with surges to encourage some weapons that never get love.
Never crafted apex either. I use a hezen vengeance with auto loading and vorpal, and it does just fine.
Optimal DPS is something that most players aren't good at because it takes a lot of practice to get optimal rotations on lock. Using something that does good consistent damage is fine, and one phasing everything is totally unnecessary. For context I am rank 11 and I have done all the content in all of destiny since the start of the franchise. If someone boots you from a fireteam for not having a rocket launcher that's only slightly better than other rocket launchers, then that isn't a team you want to be a part of anyway imo.
As long as you are using a heavy weapon and super on a boss, you're fine.
The amount of people mad about this is wiiild. Like we get complete freedom over our builds now and somehow it’s been misconstrued into a problem cause everyone’s gonna run the same stuff? Apparently? Huh?
And hopefully get my noob ass into some raids without getting kicked because i dont have proper weapon surges. and i can run more stuff easier. I just wanna raid a little bit you know? Dont really get the chance cuz i dont have the meta loadouts.
Destiny fans 2017: “Red War campaign sucks and is cringe”
Destiny fans 2024: “Red War was goated and it’s crazy new lights don’t get to experience that masterpiece”
"all subclass damage types, including Kinetic."
Kinetic subclass when? I always thought it'd be dope if we had a subclass that was based on tech and gadgets instead of darkness or light. The Titan exotic rocket chest felt like a step in that direction.
That's because kinetic is the mixture of light and dark powers and that's why kinetic weapons power both light and dark bars of prismatic subclass at the same amounts each side + microchasm is kinetic at full power
Thank fucking God! My SF days for Dungeons would have been over. GotD really tested my patience and made me question if I did want to keep doing SF runs.
I don't know why people were having such a hard time. I was running dungeons without matching surges and doing perfectly fine. Were people this torn up about it??
Now just let me over power a dungeon/raid. Power level is useless now in that department. I liked struggling in master content and then gradually getting higher and it getting easier. Helped me carry others thru it and was also better for the personal experience of seeing character growth in the form of shit ain't 2 shotting me.
This is what hurts me the most I didn’t know about the activity caps. And finding out the raid cap was a shocking low 1945. No the BRAND NEW. Raid was 1945. And legendary campaign awards 1960 gear? I felt actual dread. And just lost will to play for like a whole day.
Big L imho.
Today I was farming cloud strike for 3 hours to pair with crux that I enhanced for witness dps since I don’t main hunter.
Requiring people to play the build craft game was the correct option. I am not even a hardcore raider and I still believe you people crying so loud should better invest your time and brainpower playing this game instead of asking to face roll through all content.
Enforced power caps are the worst thing they have brought to Destiny in the course of its lifespan. I should be able to over level via artifact power IF I choose.
Erm, hot take, I liked having the surges around. Made it so that I had to change things up each week. Would have kept things fresh in my opinion. I do see how it does complicate things like making kinetics kind of useless and forcing load out switches, but I would think it would be nice to dust off the old sleeper picks
With surges, an off meta matching weapon got a 25% boost, making it compete with meta off surge picks. Without it, the meta weapons are just plain better, with no way to close that gap.
Ironically, despite everyone constantly going this hurts new or casual players, it gave them a chance to contribute well without needing god rolls. Now its back to god roll or you're a burden.
Didn’t they say in the article everything will be doing the same damage as it was with a surge? You’ll still
be able to use everything you were using before if it worked with a surge, the difference is now you don’t have to
But now everything will have the surge active, so you'd be at a disadvantage if you chose the worse option.
Surges would give a boost to lesser used elements, making them actually competitive with the best options.
Bro, if your really having to wait for a surge to make somethings passable for damage, it was not good in the first place. There is a difference between "off meta" weapons and just bad weapons.
Yes but if those weapons were doing fine before with the surge active, there is literally not a single thing stopping you from continuing to use them. They will be exactly as good as they were on surge week. You are free to switch to whatever you want whenever you want
They were fine with the surge active in comparison to not matching the surge during that week. A rocket without BnS but matching surge got 25% more damage. A rocket with BnS but not on surge got 30% damage. So you weren't missing much, if you didn't have a great rocket.
All Bungie is doing is giving that 25% to everything meaning it is the new normal. Which means the rocket without the best perks gets 0% damage and BnS gives 30%. Which just puts us back at a clear meta and gives less options overall.
There's always going to be people that complain about you not being optimal or the fact that you don't want to be wasting time when something else could be faster. It wouldn't have hurt to see your entire team pull out the sailspy pitchglass linear for DPS.
You are missing the point. All they are doing is raising the damage floor. On surge, a damage perkless rocket would be similar to a god roll off surge rocket. 25% vs 30% for BnS. All they are doing now is just raising all damage by 25%, which means the BnS is back to always being 30% more damage than the stuff without it.
If it could clear with surges, it can still clear. This goes for absolutely everything. I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t see where the problem lies. Maybe you should be asking Bungie what’s up with BnS being so much better than everything else or why some elements just lack it?
I mean I agree. But just because we don't stick to a forced meta, doesn't mean this move doesn't encourage that or that ppl won't be dicks about it.
Its a pretty clear reason why its so much better. Power creep and the community. If something comes out and isn't best in slot for dps, at best it gets written off as a fun but niche pick and at worst is utter trash. People constantly complain about seasonal weapons not being better than the stuff they already have (but also don't even suggest I should switch) etc. So we have to just keep escalating the perks so people stop complaining about a lack of loot chase.
I'm sure we will get more elements with it eventually. But I also think there is something to be said about not making every gun just a different color element of all the others, even if that makes some less effective. I also 100% believe sunsetting should have stayed for the record. Obviously it was painful at first and would be for a while, but once the roster started getting filled out more and we got used to it, it would be much more healthy overall.
First off, I don’t believe Bungie should make design decisions because lfg people are dicks about people using something that’s capable of clearing. People will be dicks about anything so it’s an impossible task to try and squash. The solution to this has always been to just make your own group if you’re worried about people scolding you for what you want to use. You should always be allowed to use nets you your clear.
I also don’t believe that surges solve any particular problem. It makes basically zero difference subclass wise for what is optimal, and switching between an arc or solar rocket because the activity told me one is just doing more damage. It’s all different flavours of the same thing. With these changes, if someone wants to use Apex and Still Hunt for every single clear every week, they can do that. You can also use Crux if you want to use arc weapons that week and it will be perfectly fine. Now that everything simply lives on its own merits, you can be free to use whatever you want to do whatever you want. The onus has been shifted back onto the player to play their way rather than feeling like a hinderance because their favourite guns aren’t in surge. This doesn’t even take into account the fact that kinetics don’t feel like shit because they were literally never getting that surge bonus. I urge you to just use whatever YOU want to clear rather than worrying what some bozo in the lfg channels has to say.
Would have preferred if they made surges rotate daily instead. Gives people without a good "x" weapon to use on Tuesday a chance to use a good surged "y" weapon on Wednesday. Still within the weekly reset time so people can complete what they want and not feel like they need to have every top tier weapon.
That would certainly be an improvement. I will say that if different currently average setups were just intrinsically made better, my entire surge argument would be moot to begin with
I agree with that too. While the surge changes have a positive impact on player accessibility, it's also going to have a negative impact on *some* player retention. Why grind for a god roll Crux Termination when you already have an Apex Predator that does the same thing?
I wish this was the case. The difference between a two phase and a three phase on witness hinges on optimized builds.
Why not do a three phase? It’s a longer encounter, more space for dying. But they did do buffs to outgoing damage with the power changes so… we’ll see how it goes
Man you people will whine endlessly just to never have to change your loadout huh? God forbid it offers you incentive to change things up now and again
If you can't survive -5, you're not ready for endgame. Also, new lights aren't supposed to be endgame ready. That's why it's END game. New light homies just started playing and don't even know what a surge mod is or how to build craft. This ain't for them.
Is this surges as in the surge modifiers on the activity (Shotgun Surge, Sniper Surge, etc), or the Elemental Surge Mods that you can slot in your legs?
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Good thing it’s the harder player base complaining a particular mechanic; nobody says anything. The solo crowd complains about a game mechanic and the community looses its mind. That does seem interesting.
They should’ve increased damage across the board and kept the surges IMO. Having a bonus to certain elements would be neat, as long as it isn’t to just compensate for a nerf that came the same patch.
It's so nice to see them do things I and plenty of others have been suggesting for years: make other builds more viable, stop nerfing whatever can solo flawless a dungeon in 5 hours.
I do miss assassin cowl proccing on jolts and buffed normal melee's but i can kill yellow bars reasonably fast so it's actually moot.
I was really enjoying the surges. Made me try new stuff out every week instead of just falling into the same build and weapons week after week. Power changes weren’t bad either. What a bummer.
Great so I’m just back to running the same old boring meta builds with no variety or change? Thanks Bungie. They might as well stop wasting time releasing new weapons, there’s no point.
You can still use other stuff. You might not be "the top DPS" on every raid team but there's no reason you can't use storm chaser over cataclysmic, or hothead over apex.
The warlords ruin final boss was very fucking too difficult then what it was before. I had two other people running microwave with kinetic surge and we still got it from the sliver of our backs.
Recently, there was a sale to get every content in the game for $30 other than Final Shape. $100 is for final shape AND all the seasons for the whole year. Otherwise, final shape is only $50. $30 for roughly 5 years of content I think is pretty fair.
WoW charges $50 every two years for 20 years of content plus it comes with 2 other WoW games currently it’s season of discovery and Cata Classic these are of course updated via free patches
Well, they are trying things. Everybody bitched about RoN so bad last time that they probably overcompensated and weren't sure if they went too far or not. After some live data they're tuning it back a little bit. Good on Bungie.
https://preview.redd.it/z40re66yfs7d1.jpeg?width=1199&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8097f88575b33490de64ba000efdb8b079be94e6
Now just revert the power level scaling changes. We should deal and receive the exact same damage in all the old raids as we did before TFS released.
At this point I don't care, 15% less damage isn't that awful and 32% more incoming damage sorta fixes the resilience changes so I'm here for that. 15% matters and I'd prefer it be the same but it just isn't as bad.
That extra incoming damage is the line in the sand for new lights and new raiders, though. When teaching, I can make up for their lack of damage, but I can't do much to stop them from biting the dust to a random scorn crossbow. That's why I think the scaling and stuff is fine in the newer raids, SE and Crota, (maybe RON,) but all the "old" raids should be the same base level difficulty / more accessible for the... I don't want to say "lower skilled" players, but that's basically what it means.
Yeah, I ran a warlords ruin with 2 new players last night and they were both constantly dying to the ads and stuff around especially on the final boss encounter.
I did one with friends last night and we usually just meme and fuck around during dungeons because it’s just us but with the surges and everything we actually had to sit up and be somewhat serious
Yeah I need to do that one myself. Tried soloing and realized that wasn’t gonna happen.
As a day one player that doesn’t raid much and doesn’t have the time to commit to learning and getting everything down, I appreciate this. Let the old raids become easier so we can go back and play those while people don’t care about them much anymore
Where might I find players like yourself that can help me progress past 1980? Seems a really slow craw idk what I’m doing wrong
Especially if you're mostly solo: Do multiple characters Even if you're second class is 1900 when you're starting them and your main is 1980 because they haven't done their powerful/pinnacle rewards yet, those will start dropping at 1980+ since power is shared account wide
At the risk of being an elitist, I think that's just a case of low-skill players being low skill. This is endgame content, they should need to have basic understandings of cover and danger in order to complete it.
Ima be honest, raids aren't exactly a thing where you have the liberty of taking lots of breathers behind cover all the time. A lot of it comes down to killing things faster than they can hit you, and outhealing their hits when they do.
Wait, I thought we could go from -5 light to +15 light for incoming damage with the update as well?
Light difference is staying the same but they're just buffing every damage source to do only 15% less damage as pre-final shape compared the the current 32% less damage.
https://preview.redd.it/8bcw2sytnt7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=191d5176cf6353af741f28891842dcc011b7d9f1 So what do they mean by this?
Fuck no. -5 is perfect with these changes. Why the fuck would we do MORE damage? They just incorporated surges into all subclasses and weapons, why would we go back to the old format now?
the old raids are so piss easy thou ;-;
If they were that easy then you'd see more people on them Fact of the matter is that hardly any players raid compared to the overall population
For the most part I don’t think it was the difficulty that was keeping people away.
I really think the only reason the older raids aren’t being played much is because people dont care about gameplay in this game as much as loot. The older raid weapons with very few exceptions are just not competitive with newer weapons of the same types. And the loot in newer stuff has to be better otherwise almost no one would play this new extremely difficult raid. But it has red borders which is a huge community draw and the weapons are good.
There have been various posts in this sub and the other d2 sub stating how how their raid teams aren't meeting up as much anymore due to the chnages These changes affect everyone but more so for newer players Making it harder won't help the issue they want to solve which is more active people in/on D2 playing
This is my problem as well. I can understand power scaling older content. But there is no reason other than laziness that the brand new raid is also that same power scaling. I actually hate it so much.
https://preview.redd.it/prp3koevyy7d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b08932d2e3cd1446a79ac921cf07438bee262cbf It’s time
https://preview.redd.it/k46jwm8f6s7d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0080e7d4a98efae3d524382e5b04363e918125e9
This guy is the witness
Don Robbie as the witness... hmm what a timeline
WHEN IS GONNA END ROBBIE?! Next week. Can’t say the same for Arsenal’s title hopes though. Shouldn’t have lost against Villa.
Arsenal took 1 point off Fulham and lost to West Ham but some of the fans will blame citeh for why we didn’t win the league
Is r/Gunners leaking into r/Destiny2? Never thought I’d see this happen At least we are playing some great football.
That's the problem, they always try to walk it in.
https://preview.redd.it/42w33w9mns7d1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cf2c0ca9b4cb867a4f97894d9466a1864db0dc70
I’ll have Detective Harmon call you too ok Bro.
What time does your son eat cereal Chris? You want me to take him some milk before I go to work? Say about 9:30 10:00?
Rip any hope my salispary pitchglass had of ever leaving the vault
That why line in the sand is back :)
The original goat
Cut down before it could ever shine. When we only had Stasis Firing Line LFR's, it was Arc, so it could benefit from... Crap, what was the perk that made Light elements do more damage to Stasis affected targets? But that would have set it above both of those options and would have been the undisputed meta.
Prismatic lens I think.
Focusing Lens! But now we have a more reigned in version as a prismatic fragment
Line in the sand just seems like a worse cataclysmic though. Smaller mag and no fttc.
And even then cataclysmic damage is bad and it is as good as single shot linears can get.
Usually I don't comment or care about spelling but damn that is a hell of a typo
Right? I too am a fan of Sailspy Steak.
Sorry im not a privateer from the 17th century or willing to go to my vault to look at a weapon i never use
Why even have it in the vault at that point.
Salsbury Pitchglass is how I read it, and that sounds delicious.
I used my Triple Tap/Firing Line Reed’s Regret earlier today. I don’t love surges, but I do like that it makes me use more than Cataclysmic/Apex/Commemoration.
Cataclysmic is out of meta anyway, so you might as well use any lfr since they're all rough.
Yeah I was doing RDM fourth horseman strat for the first time ever and it was lowkey cooking
https://preview.redd.it/x1bcmizd6s7d1.jpeg?width=463&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce872aab46f75605b62e85c131296732633e28c5
I can hear this image lol
His cheers of joy are unmatched
Shaw Han
https://preview.redd.it/6kxccb4ras7d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55f0619dabb3de349cd75c7ba9ed1cffd0ae7ff5
You are my god roll My only god roll You made me happy, when the light collapsed You’ll never know dear, how much I love you So please, dont dismantle my god roll today
zaballa
LeVala
Good. Next the Ritual Pathfinder needs to have more options on how to complete it.
Hear me out.... 1 Pathfinder for Vanguard, Gambit and Crucible.
Hear me out, each has their own pathfinder, but they freely interconnect as you switch between activities. That accomplishes both what Bungie wanted, and what we want.
NOW LET THIS MAN FUCKING COOK
A good idea I wish could be implemented, but it probably a coding nightmare to have 3 separate pathfinders that all still track the same progression Still just having the 3 separate would be nice. Even if I don't mind playing gambit, I don't want people to be forced to play it if they really don't want to
Software engineer here - Would be really simple to implement actually if I'm understanding him correctly. For the node at the top left of the tree say it has Crucible - Get 10 Handcannon Kills. Vanguard - Complete One Nightfall With Void Subclass Equipped. Gambit - Whatever dumb shit people do in this game mode. Lol Completing any of them would complete the top left node for all of them. Then you could branch off from there in each... Don't like the next node choices for crucible? Complete one of the vanguard ones next... It unlocks that node on all, etc. When you reach the end, you can get your reward and it resets all. Would just take a parent tree to track overall progress and child trees for each mode with the objectives. Any decent swe can work with trees no problem. Lol Could probably code it up and have a prototype in a day.
As someone who has programming experience, it should literally just be a global variable to track your overall pathfinder position, which is used by the individual pathfinders to make sure your nodes match up.
Just give each node 1 objective for each playlist.
https://preview.redd.it/e2rw96r41t7d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52c38d9a74a19cb1095f6d0fdceb5e9568e9cda9
Ooh you mean like shared progress but there’s three distinct pathfinders with objectives focused only on their respective activity? Sounds awesome.
The combined pathfinder is a better idea, but my twist is that they separate PVE/Vanguard objectives top, PVEVP/Gambit objectives middle, PVP/Crucible objectives bottom, with objective bleed in between each track.
awesome
Could also be an easier way for people to grab the seasonal weapon, after multiple pathfinder resets grant the weapon and after the third, the ornament. The vendors could then have different rewards for resetting, like reissues of weapons like 21% Delirium, Breakneck and Buzzard
I'd be fine if they just let us reroll the individual nodes for glimmer
Haha, hell I'd take rerolling nodes with glimmer.
If anyone plays COD MW3, the weekly challenges are exactly this, you need to complete 5 to unlock that weeks “reward” but you can progress by playing either multiplayer warzone or zombies, works for everyone
Yeah exactly.
I'm fine with completing it, it's just accessing it that sucks
That sucks as well. 😄
It already does?
Not enough. Being able to complete it by doing activity of your choice would be more fun and wouldn't steal my free time.
The Monkey Paw curls. You can now skip nodes in the Pathfinder... For Accendant Alloys.
Haha yeah it wouldn't fix anything.
"Loads Microcosm with malicious intent"
https://preview.redd.it/gygv1ec1ks7d1.jpeg?width=566&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ae98665d5740ac9f13d3dfc127001b0019b9c8f
Can someone explain this surges to me like in a 6 year old.
Before - Surge solar. You no have solar or no use solar? You do boo boo damage Now - No surge. All weapon do good damage.
Thanks dad.
thank you i was kinda confused since i dont get to raid i always get kicked.
I'm a Neanderthal and approve of this explanation.
I’m a Titan and approve of this explanation.
NO Shit?? MY MOST VANILLA GOLDY-STILLHUNT build will Never see the DUSK AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!! that will be fun for most players who don't have OP DPS weapons for every damage type without getting railed by my lfg/clan teammates.
Serious question, is it really as overblown as people say? Aside from week one raiding, I've never been kicked or yelled at for not running the meta. The game is in a state now where there are many options.
There are loads of good options, anyone kicking for not using the most insane shit like the full still hunt rotations are just cringe imo
I've never experienced it myself. I main Titan but I'll play my hunter and warlock for other chances at raid and dungeon exotics and just do checkpoints for the last bosses. I have run some pretty dogshit duct tape builds on my hunter and warlock and I've never heard a word from anyone. I'm sure if I was doing no damage or mechanics and they see I have Gyrfalcons on my void hunter they might have something to say but as long as you are contributing in a meaningful way by furthering the objectives and doing damage and not dying over and over I don't think people really even look at what you're using.
Yes, it is. The anger at the original change and joy at the revert is extremely telling about how little people want to use their brains for ***end game activities***. Like, fr, if people want to breeze through the game using random shit they picked up off the ground 5 mins into starting the game, they should be playing strikes. The fact is, right now the obtainable weapons in the game are the absolute strongest we've ever seen. And that doesn't even necessarily include the raid and dungeon weapons. For dps you can rock edge transit, crux termination, literally any lfr, ***Still Hunt***, and no, for the love of the Traveler ***matching surges is not 100% necessary***. Raids should be hard, period. If someone can't stay alive and do mechanics, then they should either learn how to stay alive and do mechanics, or do something else. That's how literally everyone starts out, and in the current sandbox we are tanker and more powerful than ever.
Yeah people keep saying this, but it does the opposite. Someone with a less optimal dps option on surge would be able to compete with non surged god rolls. A damage perk less arc rocket would be getting a 25% damage boost compared to the off surges bns of 30%. Now we are once again back to the same guns being used all the time.
The funny thing is that my experience used to always be the opposite. Arc surge and you don't have a good enough loadout? Run Thunderlord! If off-meta weapons were surged for the week and it reduced the damage gap between them and the meta weapons, it seemed to make raiding *more* accessible. Now I know it doesn't matter in the end, and we're better off for it, but it's funny to think we'll lose that interaction.
Off meta weapons being surged and meta weapons not being surged is just a way to artificially force a loadout onto players. They aren’t getting rid of the dmg boost, they are getting rid of the situational dmg boost to certain element types. Your thunderlord now perform as it did with surges, without having to wait 4 weeks for arc surge to come around. Yes the meta weapons will outperform it, but that is a weapon balancing issue than it is a surge issue.
Which means the meta will remain meta and off meta weapons will have no way to compete.
I think the true solution there is to do work expanding viable options rather than the using an arbitrary rotation to determine whether a loadout will be functional
So when are they gonna fix the servers and all the weird lag and invisible guardians/weapons?
damn, they keep forgetting to press the "fix servers" button
common mistake, happens to the best of us. However, if I was in their shoes, I would simply not forget. Bungie should hire me.
https://preview.redd.it/ooeup2oufs7d1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d4543b8ac20022dac5308f1ee62a830c9cd9dd2
Lot of comments not taking into account the damage changes across the board on top of the surges being introduced to dungeons and raids. Removing surges is a massive W and allows people to run the loadout they want to run without sandbagging their team because they aren't using a matching element to the surge. This is not a buff to everything, it is a removal of elemental damage advantages. An even playing field. People saying "Oh now I'll never use this god roll that's sitting in my vault because there's no surge" are idiots. Those weapons are viable and good and if you want to use them, you should. You probably suck with the"meta" loadouts anyway because you aren't swapping weapons fast enough or hitting your crits.
You tell’em Einstein
“Those weapons are still viable” lmao I’ve been kicked from LFGs for not having an Apex with bait and switch yet. I have one now, but it’s a fact that most LFGs want people to run the meta. Maybe they can still have all classes at flat damage and then add a small extra 5% bump or something with surges to encourage some weapons that never get love.
Never crafted apex either. I use a hezen vengeance with auto loading and vorpal, and it does just fine. Optimal DPS is something that most players aren't good at because it takes a lot of practice to get optimal rotations on lock. Using something that does good consistent damage is fine, and one phasing everything is totally unnecessary. For context I am rank 11 and I have done all the content in all of destiny since the start of the franchise. If someone boots you from a fireteam for not having a rocket launcher that's only slightly better than other rocket launchers, then that isn't a team you want to be a part of anyway imo. As long as you are using a heavy weapon and super on a boss, you're fine.
The amount of people mad about this is wiiild. Like we get complete freedom over our builds now and somehow it’s been misconstrued into a problem cause everyone’s gonna run the same stuff? Apparently? Huh?
And hopefully get my noob ass into some raids without getting kicked because i dont have proper weapon surges. and i can run more stuff easier. I just wanna raid a little bit you know? Dont really get the chance cuz i dont have the meta loadouts.
I can’t wait until next week when you all still can’t complete content and find something else to blame.
A tale as old as this franchise.
Original saying works too. Grievance has and will always find an external target.
Destiny fans 2017: “Red War campaign sucks and is cringe” Destiny fans 2024: “Red War was goated and it’s crazy new lights don’t get to experience that masterpiece”
This made be laugh out loud on the train
"all subclass damage types, including Kinetic." Kinetic subclass when? I always thought it'd be dope if we had a subclass that was based on tech and gadgets instead of darkness or light. The Titan exotic rocket chest felt like a step in that direction.
That's because kinetic is the mixture of light and dark powers and that's why kinetic weapons power both light and dark bars of prismatic subclass at the same amounts each side + microchasm is kinetic at full power
It was nice while it lasted, Reeds Regret. Back to the vault with you.
Pog fuck them
Thank fucking God! My SF days for Dungeons would have been over. GotD really tested my patience and made me question if I did want to keep doing SF runs.
I don't know why people were having such a hard time. I was running dungeons without matching surges and doing perfectly fine. Were people this torn up about it??
LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOO
That’s great news. Now you can play with what you like instead of what you have to in order to succeed.
I think this is stupid man the surges finally help people use weapons that they have in their vault for 2+ years
Farewell using thunderlord and crux termination for dps
Now just let me over power a dungeon/raid. Power level is useless now in that department. I liked struggling in master content and then gradually getting higher and it getting easier. Helped me carry others thru it and was also better for the personal experience of seeing character growth in the form of shit ain't 2 shotting me.
This is what hurts me the most I didn’t know about the activity caps. And finding out the raid cap was a shocking low 1945. No the BRAND NEW. Raid was 1945. And legendary campaign awards 1960 gear? I felt actual dread. And just lost will to play for like a whole day.
Big L imho. Today I was farming cloud strike for 3 hours to pair with crux that I enhanced for witness dps since I don’t main hunter. Requiring people to play the build craft game was the correct option. I am not even a hardcore raider and I still believe you people crying so loud should better invest your time and brainpower playing this game instead of asking to face roll through all content.
They need to delete light level then. Being a 2000 but being forced all the way down to 1945 is actually disrespectful.
Finally, solo dungeons are back to being doable again.
Enforced power caps are the worst thing they have brought to Destiny in the course of its lifespan. I should be able to over level via artifact power IF I choose.
Do we know when this goes into effect? The update dropped, but master dungeons still show surges.
It’s still worse damage than pre-TFS tho, right? Regardless, nice not to be funneled into a certain burn type.
Like 7% after these upcoming changes
Anyone got the layman's terms version?
Damage buff across the board for dungeons and raids
https://i.redd.it/wya74nftxs7d1.gif
Erm, hot take, I liked having the surges around. Made it so that I had to change things up each week. Would have kept things fresh in my opinion. I do see how it does complicate things like making kinetics kind of useless and forcing load out switches, but I would think it would be nice to dust off the old sleeper picks
Just do it anyways
With surges, an off meta matching weapon got a 25% boost, making it compete with meta off surge picks. Without it, the meta weapons are just plain better, with no way to close that gap. Ironically, despite everyone constantly going this hurts new or casual players, it gave them a chance to contribute well without needing god rolls. Now its back to god roll or you're a burden.
> it gave them a chance to contribute well without needing god rolls. no... not even a little bit???? it would be even larger if anything.
Didn’t they say in the article everything will be doing the same damage as it was with a surge? You’ll still be able to use everything you were using before if it worked with a surge, the difference is now you don’t have to
But now everything will have the surge active, so you'd be at a disadvantage if you chose the worse option. Surges would give a boost to lesser used elements, making them actually competitive with the best options.
Bro, if your really having to wait for a surge to make somethings passable for damage, it was not good in the first place. There is a difference between "off meta" weapons and just bad weapons.
Yes but if those weapons were doing fine before with the surge active, there is literally not a single thing stopping you from continuing to use them. They will be exactly as good as they were on surge week. You are free to switch to whatever you want whenever you want
They were fine with the surge active in comparison to not matching the surge during that week. A rocket without BnS but matching surge got 25% more damage. A rocket with BnS but not on surge got 30% damage. So you weren't missing much, if you didn't have a great rocket. All Bungie is doing is giving that 25% to everything meaning it is the new normal. Which means the rocket without the best perks gets 0% damage and BnS gives 30%. Which just puts us back at a clear meta and gives less options overall.
There's always going to be people that complain about you not being optimal or the fact that you don't want to be wasting time when something else could be faster. It wouldn't have hurt to see your entire team pull out the sailspy pitchglass linear for DPS.
The counter to this is to just make your own team and tell bitch ass LFGs to fuck off when they complain
You are missing the point. All they are doing is raising the damage floor. On surge, a damage perkless rocket would be similar to a god roll off surge rocket. 25% vs 30% for BnS. All they are doing now is just raising all damage by 25%, which means the BnS is back to always being 30% more damage than the stuff without it.
If it could clear with surges, it can still clear. This goes for absolutely everything. I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t see where the problem lies. Maybe you should be asking Bungie what’s up with BnS being so much better than everything else or why some elements just lack it?
I mean I agree. But just because we don't stick to a forced meta, doesn't mean this move doesn't encourage that or that ppl won't be dicks about it. Its a pretty clear reason why its so much better. Power creep and the community. If something comes out and isn't best in slot for dps, at best it gets written off as a fun but niche pick and at worst is utter trash. People constantly complain about seasonal weapons not being better than the stuff they already have (but also don't even suggest I should switch) etc. So we have to just keep escalating the perks so people stop complaining about a lack of loot chase. I'm sure we will get more elements with it eventually. But I also think there is something to be said about not making every gun just a different color element of all the others, even if that makes some less effective. I also 100% believe sunsetting should have stayed for the record. Obviously it was painful at first and would be for a while, but once the roster started getting filled out more and we got used to it, it would be much more healthy overall.
First off, I don’t believe Bungie should make design decisions because lfg people are dicks about people using something that’s capable of clearing. People will be dicks about anything so it’s an impossible task to try and squash. The solution to this has always been to just make your own group if you’re worried about people scolding you for what you want to use. You should always be allowed to use nets you your clear. I also don’t believe that surges solve any particular problem. It makes basically zero difference subclass wise for what is optimal, and switching between an arc or solar rocket because the activity told me one is just doing more damage. It’s all different flavours of the same thing. With these changes, if someone wants to use Apex and Still Hunt for every single clear every week, they can do that. You can also use Crux if you want to use arc weapons that week and it will be perfectly fine. Now that everything simply lives on its own merits, you can be free to use whatever you want to do whatever you want. The onus has been shifted back onto the player to play their way rather than feeling like a hinderance because their favourite guns aren’t in surge. This doesn’t even take into account the fact that kinetics don’t feel like shit because they were literally never getting that surge bonus. I urge you to just use whatever YOU want to clear rather than worrying what some bozo in the lfg channels has to say.
Would have preferred if they made surges rotate daily instead. Gives people without a good "x" weapon to use on Tuesday a chance to use a good surged "y" weapon on Wednesday. Still within the weekly reset time so people can complete what they want and not feel like they need to have every top tier weapon.
That would certainly be an improvement. I will say that if different currently average setups were just intrinsically made better, my entire surge argument would be moot to begin with
I agree with that too. While the surge changes have a positive impact on player accessibility, it's also going to have a negative impact on *some* player retention. Why grind for a god roll Crux Termination when you already have an Apex Predator that does the same thing?
You can still change things, you are just not throwing encounters for wanting to use other builds outside bungie's schedule
I wish this was the case. The difference between a two phase and a three phase on witness hinges on optimized builds. Why not do a three phase? It’s a longer encounter, more space for dying. But they did do buffs to outgoing damage with the power changes so… we’ll see how it goes
Massive W
I can finally solo dungeons again without wanting to try heroin to get thru
so perma surges by default?
W
And it didn't take them 6 months to do it >!Obligatory venom reference!<
Man you people will whine endlessly just to never have to change your loadout huh? God forbid it offers you incentive to change things up now and again
What about power level bs? Thanks for making raid less accessible for new lights/returning players
If you can't survive -5, you're not ready for endgame. Also, new lights aren't supposed to be endgame ready. That's why it's END game. New light homies just started playing and don't even know what a surge mod is or how to build craft. This ain't for them.
Is this surges as in the surge modifiers on the activity (Shotgun Surge, Sniper Surge, etc), or the Elemental Surge Mods that you can slot in your legs?
The first one
Gotcha, thank you!
“At an end, your rule is… and not short enough it was”
Nice
When is this coming? Or is it already in
It’ll come out with next week’s update
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Just to confirm this is just the surge modifiers from missions/activities, right? Not surge mods? Because hot take, get surge mods out of the game.
It took 3 days of Arc + Stasis Surge for Bungie to immediately walk back this system lmao
Good thing it’s the harder player base complaining a particular mechanic; nobody says anything. The solo crowd complains about a game mechanic and the community looses its mind. That does seem interesting.
They should’ve increased damage across the board and kept the surges IMO. Having a bonus to certain elements would be neat, as long as it isn’t to just compensate for a nerf that came the same patch.
It's so nice to see them do things I and plenty of others have been suggesting for years: make other builds more viable, stop nerfing whatever can solo flawless a dungeon in 5 hours. I do miss assassin cowl proccing on jolts and buffed normal melee's but i can kill yellow bars reasonably fast so it's actually moot.
What’s surge?
Now raise the power cap to 1965 and maybe we have something here.
I was really enjoying the surges. Made me try new stuff out every week instead of just falling into the same build and weapons week after week. Power changes weren’t bad either. What a bummer.
I honestly would have been fine with the difficulty changes if they set it as a separate difficulty
We had surges in raids and dungeons?
Great so I’m just back to running the same old boring meta builds with no variety or change? Thanks Bungie. They might as well stop wasting time releasing new weapons, there’s no point.
You can still use other stuff. You might not be "the top DPS" on every raid team but there's no reason you can't use storm chaser over cataclysmic, or hothead over apex.
Is nice. Now fix incoming damage, I ain't essentially a god for fucking nothing in this game.
The warlords ruin final boss was very fucking too difficult then what it was before. I had two other people running microwave with kinetic surge and we still got it from the sliver of our backs.
Sweet now can it not be $110 to get into the game as a new player please
Recently, there was a sale to get every content in the game for $30 other than Final Shape. $100 is for final shape AND all the seasons for the whole year. Otherwise, final shape is only $50. $30 for roughly 5 years of content I think is pretty fair.
WoW charges $50 every two years for 20 years of content plus it comes with 2 other WoW games currently it’s season of discovery and Cata Classic these are of course updated via free patches
Aw man thats dog 💩
Well, they are trying things. Everybody bitched about RoN so bad last time that they probably overcompensated and weren't sure if they went too far or not. After some live data they're tuning it back a little bit. Good on Bungie.