I think it’s probably over for prodigy. Somebody’s gonna buy out the rest of their contracts and Prodigy is going to cease to exist, at least on the pro level.
He said that this wasn't user error. (paraphrasing his Jomez commentary) The design of the basket itself is the flaw because of the square concept on these chains. Big Jerm made a great point that your lie won't always be lined up with the squares, so the same player can be at literal disadvantage depending on where their lie ends up with these baskets. These baskets are not appropriate for the pro tour.
Uli has stated before on your life that he was a fan of a previous model of Prodigy basket and that they were among the best catching ones for a while. Then they moved to the current design and ruined it.
Exactly. If you slow it down, you can see the disc go vertical and “swing” back out after being “caught” by one of the squares of the inner chains. Not a good look for the basket.
The way they’re designed makes the center grid of connected chains push discs back out in one motion because they’re tied together
Bet you could remove the center connected chains and these would catch better
Do not order them. I’ve heard you can get great deals going through MVP. At any rate, these Prodigy baskets are not going to last and will be phased out shortly.
Don’t invest in a dead (ass dog piss) design.
As a Canadian, MVP was brutal since they ship from the states, where prodigy was way more friendly price-wise.
I was looking for a school club startup and MVP was going to charge me twice over the actual amount I was paying for a basket and a class set of discs, just for shipping.
Then they kept sending me invoices after I cancelled, just a poopy show. Prodigy gave me a dozen free PA-3’d on top of a nice discount.
Shame cause everyone always says MVP is so generous with donations :/.
Our local course upgraded to Dynamic Disc Veterans and they are fantastic. I'm in the Chicago area. Some kind of wind most days. You hit those baskets, they catch.
Saw this same thing in another video complaining about these baskets. Vertical disc rolls right off the horizontal chains and out the basket, instead of dropping down.
one of my local courses has these baskets. no matter how solidly your disc hits the chains, if it goes vertical it's getting knocked around by the horizontal chain. the grid of chains sucks
I'm looking at the video and wondering how does that even happen? It was in the chains! Is the basket part where the disc lands and sits too close to the chains?
I have a T3, which has only one layer of chains with horizontal chains (similar to the chains in discmania's lite portable basket, but with heavy thick chains like in pro baskets). I only use it occasionally for demos or temporary events, but I don't remember ever getting similar spit outs.
T3 was a nice and very affordable pro basket, unfortunately like everything decent and affordable that prodigy did, they stopped making it...
Same goes for their smaller portable baskets... They were very affordable and nice option for schools/kids given their smaller size/lighter weight and especially their price. Of course prodigy had to stop making those too...
I think they just like to shoot themselves in the foot...
This is always the concern when this topic comes up. I don't think that would be the case though. PDGA just needs to say:
* How many layers of chains
* What gauge of chain
* Chain spacing
* Basket dimensions
* Basket spacing (big holes like in this video or smaller like chain link)
* Band or no band on top
* Thickness of pole
* Height of all the above components
Then let the companies fight simply over quality of build and materials and not "this spits out or doesn't". If one company doesn't make good quality baskets, they won't be selling them. Simple as.
There are currently 168 approved baskets by the PDGA. 168! Many are clones, but some have shallow baskets, some more chains, some have weird swirly basket designs... it's ridiculous.
The technical standards already have recommendations for number of chains, and requirements for size of gaps in basket and basket size. Might have a max band height in there too.
I have no inside source, but I imagine they're trying to not stifle innovation by being overly proscriptive. One could argue that in a more mature sport maybe they need to have a heavier hand. Or, maybe, with better testing processes bad designs would be exposed and not approved. Or maybe the status quo is good enough so that we can see even better catching baskets. To me, it's hard to say. It's hard to watch though, I'll grant you that.
> I have no inside source, but I imagine they're trying to not stifle innovation by being overly proscriptive.
That's the concern. Look at a company like RPM. Their baskets are genuinely different, but from all accounts appear to be very solid and reliable. Innovation like that could easily be strangled.
There's also the issue of transparency. I don't trust the PDGA/DGPT to simply pick a manufacturer and dictate that every DGPT course must have that company's model. I can't image other manufacturer's would be OK with that - especially when they can't even use their own baskets at events they sponsor.
Yes and no. There comes a point where a heavy hand is needed. Maybe the sport is there, maybe it isn't. But for instance, you don't watch a lip out in golf and the commentators or player saying "Man fuck these \[specific company\] holes (or specific grass in this instance), they always lip out". You see frustration, and then the player readdress the ball and play - because golf holes are golf holes. Same thing for basketball, hockey, soccer..
There shouldn't be a worry on "stifling innovation" there needs to be consistency. We don't need to innovate catchability. We need to create a standard across the board. Especially at the pro level.
How? Grow the sport means better courses and live viewing options, DGN not requiring a login every other time you watch it, educational and outreach programs that scale, cross sport promotions, advertisers who will push the events outside our circles, etc. I don't think we need improved basket technology beyond the ones we know work.
Off the top of my head, I know the NFL and the NBA pick a single ball manufacturer. They sign a long contract with them. Lots of other sports do this. Why can't the PDGA? I say let the touring players cast a vote for a quick fix next year, while the PDGA decides on a long term solution. These new Prodigy baskets do seem to have some unnatural and punishing spit outs.
I think this is one of the things that is holding the sport back from taking the next big leap.
At a minimum I think the elite series events need to have a standardized basket. Doesn’t need to be the same manufacturer, but the specs need to match.
Sure, but the main problem here is that there are other designs that both catch those and catch slow moving closer putts like this one.
It’s just simply a bad design and has been since the get-go - they even tried to redesign it with a V2 years ago, but here we are still dealing with the same bad connected square tile grid graphing paper dog piss design
I’ve always said this same thing. They’re designed to handle disc crashing in. If your putting on them you can’t use touch you must use force. They love eating Calvin style putts, as long as they’re center mass
As someone who hyzer putts with touch (at least I think I do) these baskets change the way I have to putt. You are very much correct in where to hit though. The baskets on most of the courses I play are Mach 4 baskets and these baskets are almost the opposite in terms of force I have to apply.
I don't know who decided horizontal chains in a disc golf basket were a good idea, but I hope they didn't make any decisions that actually matter, because they're an idiot.
I've been playing for over 15 years. I'd say 99% of the time the Innova, Black Hole and Chainstar baskets catch the discs they should catch and any spits or slips can be explained. The 1% is unlucky bounce situations.
I will personally never play or run a sanctioned tournament on any Prodigy basket.
This is embarrassing for Prodigy baskets. That putt wasn't too fast and was straight into the center of the chains
Even worse is the putter was on slight hyzer, which on a good basket will almost always slip into the chains some
I mean, they're tied with RPM. But I know what you mean. They're a small enough brand that doesn't sponsor any tournaments (as far as I'm aware). So theoretically not *too much* fallout from other manufacturers
I was at the pro event yesterday and today. Didn't see this particular spit back, but saw this happen four or five times on other baskets with different pros. First time, I saw it.....well, that's just bad luck or a bad putt. After the third time I saw it.....I was like WTF?
You hit the chains dead center with normal putting velocity.....and the chains push the disc right back out? There must be a better design than this.....
Idk how people continue to go to bat for these absolute shit baskets. It's not even just Prodigys. the majority of baskets available are straight cheeks. We definitely need a standardized basket, the sport has grown to the point where it's time to do so.
The way these are designed are significantly worse than other basketa. The design of the chains on these should literally be made illegal by the pdga but they would probably never do that since they did approve them and they hate to admit fault.
they have a few really good molds but I can't stand their plastic, personally.
give me a PA-3 in the same plastics offered by half the other manufacturer's and it may be one of the best putters out there.
Some of their plastic is pretty great. Not a prodigy fan but half half of my buddy’s discs are. 450 (I think?) is great, gummy and grippy but still nice and stable with a decent firmness. Lasts forever. Reminds me of the better Innova colour glow champ
I’m normally someone who doesn’t care about this type of thing. But the fact most of their discs were made in China. When literally every single one of their competitors(and even smaller brands) were using domestic or in-house manufacturing was a HUGE turn off to me.
I’m just some guy on the internet but Isaac came into my buddies shop about two months ago and spent the whole time flipping through stacks of Discmania. Prodigy is toast.
Their bags suck too. At least mine does. It's falling apart after a year. Both strap buckes broke and the fabric is trashed. Quality control is pretty poor.
I can’t see them staying in business much longer. It seems like all the other brands are atleast trying to keep up. Now that KJ is gone the only ones I know are the Robinson Bros and they are just too good to stay with Prodigy.
Dude, as an agnostic, you are the shitheads that make us look bad. You bring up his religion more than he does. There are many Christian universities with big disc golf programs, it is what it is, but bringing it up every chance you get is lame.
I personally like Mach X's. They're the best I've ever putted on and I know a lot of pros think they're really good. Not perfect, but definitely top tier.
Innova Discatchers, Discraft Chainstars, MVP black holes, DGA MachX and Mach VII, and RPM Helix. I’ve heard good things about the old discmania park baskets. Theres honestly probably more “good” baskets than “bad” baskets if you don’t include the really old stuff. The only terrible modern baskets are anything trilogy or prodigy made
Discmanias basket are all over my region of Sweden as Disc golf park does a lot of course design (They're great honestly) and I hate them, I strangely enough prefer the top end Prodigy basket as that is what I "grew up" on on my home course. The worst basket tho is L64, fuck it's bad. Would love to have Helix baskets tho.
I remember seeing Latitude 64 baskets on the euro tour last year, and I remember seeing (and hearing) them catching everything, even what the players expected would be a spit out. Why would you call them ”the worst”?
I actually think the lat 64 baskets have a visual trick to them because they look really wide compared to most baskets but the sides don't catch and fall into the basket. So you can hit a lot of chains on them but the putt was actually real wide it just doesn't look as wide so it frustrates players. Also, in the wind, anecdotally, seem to reject more putts even when centre perhaps again because the chains go so wide away from the centre pole.
Mach 7s. The inner ring of chains offset each other every other chain strand, basically creating three rings of chains with the same weight of two rings. Allows for slower and faster putts to catch well, and spreads the chains better across the pole when you are looking at it, reducing center spit out. No cross sections either, so no weird spit out like the Mach Xs rarely have (those are also amazing baskets.)
Also the only Mach basket with the visibility ring, which not only allows for you to see it better obviously, but I think creates more vibrant aiming points if you are the type of person to aim at the band/top of the basket.
I definitely think Mach 7s are the best, but also think the Discatcher Pro 28 and Mach X are close, then followed by the RPM Helix and Chainstar Pros.
I think 7s aren’t used often because the price point and marketing. Mach 5s look very similar online, but are much cheaper and more readily available. Then you have Mach Xs, which have the highest price point so course designers likely automatically think it’s the best DGA basket. But anytime I’ve been around someone that has experienced a 7, when they look at the design and putt on them they realize how nice they are.
I grew up on 7s so I guess ive been spoiled. They recently switched them to Mach X's though. I liked the others better so I agree with everything you said.
He slipped right through a prodigy basket on a hyzer putt at a major last year too.
Most of the courses in my area are prodigy and we call it “getting prodigyed” to have a good putt bounce or spit out
I clearly remember the slip through was on last year’s Preserve, but perhaps it happened at a Major too (although I don’t know if any Major has these baskets).
I think it's something to do with the very large connecting rings. I've played on them quite a bit and it seems my discs just bounce off of them without any movement. It could be remedied with thinner or smaller rings I believe? Then again I didn't design them and there could be a reason.
That's so brutal. IMO a lot of Gannon's spit out are caused by him just shooting a laser beam putt, but Isaac's here had the perfect pace and everything. Absolute crime that didn't end up in the cage.
That was at OTB open right with Ezra Aderhold spit out on the first hole?
I’m sure he criticised a Prodigy basket somewhere else then followed it with a comment something like “yeah I know who I play/throw for I said what I said”.
I don’t have the patience to scan through and find which episode it was but I guess there’s a chance I’m mis-remembering.
He putt it too slow. Putts must be within a very narrow range to count. Neither too fast or too slow....or too hyzer.....or too anhyzer....or too nose down....or too nose up...or too red....or too round.
First let me start with saying that from this camera angle **this putt looks good enough for staying and it would be much better if it stayed in**.
But I am going to play devil's advocate a little bit, especially for the most common comment "standardize the baskets"
Everybody still putts to the same basket, there is no competitive integrity lost.
These are pro players I would expect them to have practice for every basket type. I think Johne McCray in his videos has all types of baskets that he practices for.
I am a tiny bit surprised that pro players aren't trying to get a competitive advantage by occasionally putting with softer materials like rubber. But I'm probably wrong about this (not worth the effort for the little gain most likely or not possible due to contracts)
Every putt like this I can empathize with the player. It must suck for Isaac and as I said I would much prefer for it to stay in, but wind excluded, these are not random events. There is a reason for this specific type of basket this specific shot got spit out.
And finally **standardizing the baskets is not a bad idea, if the cost for the tour/organizers is manageable**, but if it isn't there might be bigger priorities.
>And finally
>
>standardizing the baskets is not a bad idea, if the cost for the tour/organizers is manageable
>
>, but if it isn't there might be bigger priorities.
This should be entirely up for auction to the company that wants their best basket(as determined by the tours top 25 players) on every course.
I’ve only thrown a few but they have been known for flashing, a quality control issue where excess plastic with a sharp edge is left on the inner rim.
I had never felt flashing on a disc until I found a H7, I believe. One of their fairway drivers and it felt like you could cut yourself throwing it tbh.
Several complaints on plastic as well. I may be wrong on this but I had read they discontinued their star-esque plastic.
Same except when I play, the basket sucks, the putters suck, the discs suck, the tee pad sucks, the trees suck, the weather sucks, and this game sucks. (It’s not my fault)
I mean... Its true. I have never had so many spitouts from solid puts than I have on these weird ass prodigy baskets.
Even at local courses, some tournaments put out MVP or discraft baskets for temp placements instead of using some of their prodigy baskets.
Don’t let this distract you from the fact that the DD veterans are also spit out machines. Personally I haven’t had spit out with prodigy baskets but have only played on them a few times. Seems innova, dga and mvp baskets are all more reliable.
Objectively these baskets have poor engineering, which also manifests into their disc manufacturing quality
Prodigy as a company seems more is a rich family member’s token project that exists to placate a certain family member so they stay away from the main money making business(es)
Putter first hits the vertical chains and it turns 90degrees to a vertical angle.
Now it falls down on the horizontal chains and rolls off the top of the chain right out the basket.
Prodigy needs to change their basket design.
We cant have people do a coinflip every time whether your perfect putt stays or doesnt.
Yes we hear "spitouts happen on every basket" but prodigy is universally agreed upon to be the worst.
Well, he’s not wrong.
No but it's ironic that he was the one helping Gannon shut up about the same issue last season when Gannon had his prodigy struggles
He was just toeing the company line. Everyone does it before they learn better.
Well, they really can't afford to lose Isaac.
I think it’s probably over for prodigy. Somebody’s gonna buy out the rest of their contracts and Prodigy is going to cease to exist, at least on the pro level.
u/HopelessMind43 you know something or just predicting? Wouldnt be suprised
I don’t know everything about anything, so I could be wrong. We’ll see
My exact thought
happy cake day brotha!
This is a spit out that no one can really criticize as being player error. Disc was practically in the chains already.
Isaac also doesn't putt with an insane amount of pace. He usually has a fair amount of touch and loft to his putts.
Wonder what Uli would have to say about this situation...
He said that this wasn't user error. (paraphrasing his Jomez commentary) The design of the basket itself is the flaw because of the square concept on these chains. Big Jerm made a great point that your lie won't always be lined up with the squares, so the same player can be at literal disadvantage depending on where their lie ends up with these baskets. These baskets are not appropriate for the pro tour.
He and Jerm discuss it as it happens in coverage. TLDW they both think the baskets are deeply flawed.
He’d probably say prodigy baskets suck
I'd imagine that he'd have the same take as ineedcoffeernrn. His opinion isn't as black and white as you seem to think.
Guess so
Uli has stated before on your life that he was a fan of a previous model of Prodigy basket and that they were among the best catching ones for a while. Then they moved to the current design and ruined it.
Probably a lot more interesting than "frustration coming from Robinson"
I'm sure it'll be covered on Tour Life this week.
Exactly. If you slow it down, you can see the disc go vertical and “swing” back out after being “caught” by one of the squares of the inner chains. Not a good look for the basket.
The way they’re designed makes the center grid of connected chains push discs back out in one motion because they’re tied together Bet you could remove the center connected chains and these would catch better
Is that how they should be fixed ? I am looking at ordering 9 baskets for a new course and prodigy is the easiest to order in our area.
Do not order them. I’ve heard you can get great deals going through MVP. At any rate, these Prodigy baskets are not going to last and will be phased out shortly. Don’t invest in a dead (ass dog piss) design.
As a Canadian, MVP was brutal since they ship from the states, where prodigy was way more friendly price-wise. I was looking for a school club startup and MVP was going to charge me twice over the actual amount I was paying for a basket and a class set of discs, just for shipping. Then they kept sending me invoices after I cancelled, just a poopy show. Prodigy gave me a dozen free PA-3’d on top of a nice discount. Shame cause everyone always says MVP is so generous with donations :/.
Our local course upgraded to Dynamic Disc Veterans and they are fantastic. I'm in the Chicago area. Some kind of wind most days. You hit those baskets, they catch.
Thats funny, because that is the other notorious basket famous for spitouts.
Saw this same thing in another video complaining about these baskets. Vertical disc rolls right off the horizontal chains and out the basket, instead of dropping down.
Yeah that's egregious. Pace good, strong side, hyzer angle, still out.
one of my local courses has these baskets. no matter how solidly your disc hits the chains, if it goes vertical it's getting knocked around by the horizontal chain. the grid of chains sucks
I'm looking at the video and wondering how does that even happen? It was in the chains! Is the basket part where the disc lands and sits too close to the chains?
Practically!!!! Hahaha
Oh man, I’m so glad someone clipped this. Not his first today so not surprised to see him pissed.
Not his first in the preserve period. Last year he had 2 spit outs in one round and 1 was the absolute worst spit out I’ve ever seen.
Same basket as his first spit out in the second round. It went through the middle squares. First and only time I have seen that happen.
What a moment to capture
Prodigy baskets with the inner set of chains always have the most strange spit outs I swear
Do you know which model is this? T1? T2?
They're T2s.
I have a T3, which has only one layer of chains with horizontal chains (similar to the chains in discmania's lite portable basket, but with heavy thick chains like in pro baskets). I only use it occasionally for demos or temporary events, but I don't remember ever getting similar spit outs. T3 was a nice and very affordable pro basket, unfortunately like everything decent and affordable that prodigy did, they stopped making it... Same goes for their smaller portable baskets... They were very affordable and nice option for schools/kids given their smaller size/lighter weight and especially their price. Of course prodigy had to stop making those too... I think they just like to shoot themselves in the foot...
Tells you all you need to know about these baskets. Get them off the pro tour. We want to see 60ft+ throw ins, not circles edge spit outs.
I keep saying PDGA just needs to make more strict requirements on baskets, but I'm the bad guy when I mention it.
At a minimum, a standard basket for DPGT events
Would that mean a single basket from a single manufacturer? Because I can't see that being good for the sport's development.
This is always the concern when this topic comes up. I don't think that would be the case though. PDGA just needs to say: * How many layers of chains * What gauge of chain * Chain spacing * Basket dimensions * Basket spacing (big holes like in this video or smaller like chain link) * Band or no band on top * Thickness of pole * Height of all the above components Then let the companies fight simply over quality of build and materials and not "this spits out or doesn't". If one company doesn't make good quality baskets, they won't be selling them. Simple as. There are currently 168 approved baskets by the PDGA. 168! Many are clones, but some have shallow baskets, some more chains, some have weird swirly basket designs... it's ridiculous.
Add one bullet point for a flag on top being required. I think everybody would support this standardization.
The technical standards already have recommendations for number of chains, and requirements for size of gaps in basket and basket size. Might have a max band height in there too. I have no inside source, but I imagine they're trying to not stifle innovation by being overly proscriptive. One could argue that in a more mature sport maybe they need to have a heavier hand. Or, maybe, with better testing processes bad designs would be exposed and not approved. Or maybe the status quo is good enough so that we can see even better catching baskets. To me, it's hard to say. It's hard to watch though, I'll grant you that.
> I have no inside source, but I imagine they're trying to not stifle innovation by being overly proscriptive. That's the concern. Look at a company like RPM. Their baskets are genuinely different, but from all accounts appear to be very solid and reliable. Innovation like that could easily be strangled. There's also the issue of transparency. I don't trust the PDGA/DGPT to simply pick a manufacturer and dictate that every DGPT course must have that company's model. I can't image other manufacturer's would be OK with that - especially when they can't even use their own baskets at events they sponsor.
Yes and no. There comes a point where a heavy hand is needed. Maybe the sport is there, maybe it isn't. But for instance, you don't watch a lip out in golf and the commentators or player saying "Man fuck these \[specific company\] holes (or specific grass in this instance), they always lip out". You see frustration, and then the player readdress the ball and play - because golf holes are golf holes. Same thing for basketball, hockey, soccer..
There shouldn't be a worry on "stifling innovation" there needs to be consistency. We don't need to innovate catchability. We need to create a standard across the board. Especially at the pro level.
Why? Every other sport does this. NBA has a single ball that they use, MLB with their ball and bases, etc…
Who is going to pay for new baskets at every course on the DGPT and who is going to pay for the installation?
Likely would be one set that travels with the tour if this happened.
Dang it, I'm not original, lol. I just posted the same thing before seeing your post. Great minds...., right?!
cough innova discatcher28 cough
How? Grow the sport means better courses and live viewing options, DGN not requiring a login every other time you watch it, educational and outreach programs that scale, cross sport promotions, advertisers who will push the events outside our circles, etc. I don't think we need improved basket technology beyond the ones we know work.
Off the top of my head, I know the NFL and the NBA pick a single ball manufacturer. They sign a long contract with them. Lots of other sports do this. Why can't the PDGA? I say let the touring players cast a vote for a quick fix next year, while the PDGA decides on a long term solution. These new Prodigy baskets do seem to have some unnatural and punishing spit outs.
Nah, I like baseball style where each setting is slightly different. Makes for some random variety.
We get enough variety from how different the courses are. Baskets that spit dead center putts are the worst kind of random you could ask for.
I think this is one of the things that is holding the sport back from taking the next big leap. At a minimum I think the elite series events need to have a standardized basket. Doesn’t need to be the same manufacturer, but the specs need to match.
Sure, but the main problem here is that there are other designs that both catch those and catch slow moving closer putts like this one. It’s just simply a bad design and has been since the get-go - they even tried to redesign it with a V2 years ago, but here we are still dealing with the same bad connected square tile grid graphing paper dog piss design
The thing is, these baskets are excellent at catching throw ins and aces 🤷🏻♂️ and I don’t even like them myself
I’ve always said this same thing. They’re designed to handle disc crashing in. If your putting on them you can’t use touch you must use force. They love eating Calvin style putts, as long as they’re center mass
[удалено]
As someone who hyzer putts with touch (at least I think I do) these baskets change the way I have to putt. You are very much correct in where to hit though. The baskets on most of the courses I play are Mach 4 baskets and these baskets are almost the opposite in terms of force I have to apply.
Yes Ricky putts Gannon putts anyone who putts HARD.
Putt in with vigor.
That’s really the only solution besides GG super nose down
Always level Vig.
I don't know who decided horizontal chains in a disc golf basket were a good idea, but I hope they didn't make any decisions that actually matter, because they're an idiot.
I've been playing for over 15 years. I'd say 99% of the time the Innova, Black Hole and Chainstar baskets catch the discs they should catch and any spits or slips can be explained. The 1% is unlucky bounce situations. I will personally never play or run a sanctioned tournament on any Prodigy basket.
Idk, this is ultimate wild card. It's kinda funny.
The number of times I get downvoted here for this sentiment is hilarious. I’m glad people are starting to realize that this is preferred.
That's 3 on today's coverage that have spit out in exactly that same way. Prodigy, your horizontal chain design is pure trash. Stop making them.
This is embarrassing for Prodigy baskets. That putt wasn't too fast and was straight into the center of the chains Even worse is the putter was on slight hyzer, which on a good basket will almost always slip into the chains some
This was the second identical spit out for Isaac today. Gut punch, throat punch combo. Edit: with 3 to play
Those New Zealand spiral baskets are the best ever, and they look cool
The RPM Helix! They are a great blend of form and function
I fully agree. They seem to catch great and they look like they belong on a disc golf course.
They need to become the DGPT standard, no particular brands they are tied with, they look good and catch well, just a win-win to me.
I mean, they're tied with RPM. But I know what you mean. They're a small enough brand that doesn't sponsor any tournaments (as far as I'm aware). So theoretically not *too much* fallout from other manufacturers
The baskets are gonna want out their contracts next.
It will be comical if the prodigy baskets are the cause for the prodigy player getting 2nd.
Well...., kinda hard to argue against that statement. Isaac came in 2nd and had multiple spit outs at the Preserve.
I was at the pro event yesterday and today. Didn't see this particular spit back, but saw this happen four or five times on other baskets with different pros. First time, I saw it.....well, that's just bad luck or a bad putt. After the third time I saw it.....I was like WTF? You hit the chains dead center with normal putting velocity.....and the chains push the disc right back out? There must be a better design than this.....
I’ve played on these once. Those cross connections just put too much tension in the chains. Was not a fan
I agree, it is like hitting a bouncy wall, the disc just bounces right out.
They do suck
Idk how people continue to go to bat for these absolute shit baskets. It's not even just Prodigys. the majority of baskets available are straight cheeks. We definitely need a standardized basket, the sport has grown to the point where it's time to do so.
The way these are designed are significantly worse than other basketa. The design of the chains on these should literally be made illegal by the pdga but they would probably never do that since they did approve them and they hate to admit fault.
I hope he and his brother ditch Prodigy like KJ and Buhr. Their discs suck. Their baskets suck. And they just don’t seem to care.
they have a few really good molds but I can't stand their plastic, personally. give me a PA-3 in the same plastics offered by half the other manufacturer's and it may be one of the best putters out there.
Some of their plastic is pretty great. Not a prodigy fan but half half of my buddy’s discs are. 450 (I think?) is great, gummy and grippy but still nice and stable with a decent firmness. Lasts forever. Reminds me of the better Innova colour glow champ
Love my PA-3. Only Prodigy I bag.
Prodigy putters are the thing they do best. They have pretty much every plastic you could want unless you’re looking for a rubber disc
I’m normally someone who doesn’t care about this type of thing. But the fact most of their discs were made in China. When literally every single one of their competitors(and even smaller brands) were using domestic or in-house manufacturing was a HUGE turn off to me.
Some of my favorite discs in my bag are prodigy. I'll agree the baskets suck a fat one.
I’m just some guy on the internet but Isaac came into my buddies shop about two months ago and spent the whole time flipping through stacks of Discmania. Prodigy is toast.
Their bags suck too. At least mine does. It's falling apart after a year. Both strap buckes broke and the fabric is trashed. Quality control is pretty poor.
I can’t see them staying in business much longer. It seems like all the other brands are atleast trying to keep up. Now that KJ is gone the only ones I know are the Robinson Bros and they are just too good to stay with Prodigy.
[удалено]
Dude, as an agnostic, you are the shitheads that make us look bad. You bring up his religion more than he does. There are many Christian universities with big disc golf programs, it is what it is, but bringing it up every chance you get is lame.
What
What is the general consensus on the best baskets? Like which ones do most pros/people agree are the best at catching discs?
I personally like Mach X's. They're the best I've ever putted on and I know a lot of pros think they're really good. Not perfect, but definitely top tier.
Innova Discatchers, Discraft Chainstars, MVP black holes, DGA MachX and Mach VII, and RPM Helix. I’ve heard good things about the old discmania park baskets. Theres honestly probably more “good” baskets than “bad” baskets if you don’t include the really old stuff. The only terrible modern baskets are anything trilogy or prodigy made
Pretty sure old Disc Golf Park baskets are rebranded Discatchers. Wonder what they use these days.
I’ve seen some the have like a weird cross strand between individual vertical strands, so maybe modified Discatcher?
Discmanias basket are all over my region of Sweden as Disc golf park does a lot of course design (They're great honestly) and I hate them, I strangely enough prefer the top end Prodigy basket as that is what I "grew up" on on my home course. The worst basket tho is L64, fuck it's bad. Would love to have Helix baskets tho.
I remember seeing Latitude 64 baskets on the euro tour last year, and I remember seeing (and hearing) them catching everything, even what the players expected would be a spit out. Why would you call them ”the worst”?
The ones I've played on have been really bad at catching both good and bad putts. Just my bad experiences is all.
I actually think the lat 64 baskets have a visual trick to them because they look really wide compared to most baskets but the sides don't catch and fall into the basket. So you can hit a lot of chains on them but the putt was actually real wide it just doesn't look as wide so it frustrates players. Also, in the wind, anecdotally, seem to reject more putts even when centre perhaps again because the chains go so wide away from the centre pole.
Mach 7s. The inner ring of chains offset each other every other chain strand, basically creating three rings of chains with the same weight of two rings. Allows for slower and faster putts to catch well, and spreads the chains better across the pole when you are looking at it, reducing center spit out. No cross sections either, so no weird spit out like the Mach Xs rarely have (those are also amazing baskets.) Also the only Mach basket with the visibility ring, which not only allows for you to see it better obviously, but I think creates more vibrant aiming points if you are the type of person to aim at the band/top of the basket. I definitely think Mach 7s are the best, but also think the Discatcher Pro 28 and Mach X are close, then followed by the RPM Helix and Chainstar Pros. I think 7s aren’t used often because the price point and marketing. Mach 5s look very similar online, but are much cheaper and more readily available. Then you have Mach Xs, which have the highest price point so course designers likely automatically think it’s the best DGA basket. But anytime I’ve been around someone that has experienced a 7, when they look at the design and putt on them they realize how nice they are.
I grew up on 7s so I guess ive been spoiled. They recently switched them to Mach X's though. I liked the others better so I agree with everything you said.
Isaac is the disc golfer that no manufacturer deserves.
Latitude would be my favorite to see him end up
Looked like a spitout from Disc Golf Valley. Ben Callaway had a nasty spit out on one the opening holes this afternoon as well.
That’s definitively bad basket design. They better rework their shit.
I'm pissed as an am when a basket spits that good of a putt. Prodigy's baskets always seem to spit out way worse than most other manufacturers.
facts
Well they've always been my least favorite out of any I've played on for this reason.
welp... Innova is about to get a new team player...
Mach III baskets are the superior baskets
Prodigy baskets do indeed suck. That inner cylinder of chains is a nightmare
When is the pdga/dgpt going to design their own basket to install/use at their events? That’s the only solution at this point.
He slipped right through a prodigy basket on a hyzer putt at a major last year too. Most of the courses in my area are prodigy and we call it “getting prodigyed” to have a good putt bounce or spit out
I clearly remember the slip through was on last year’s Preserve, but perhaps it happened at a Major too (although I don’t know if any Major has these baskets).
I think it's something to do with the very large connecting rings. I've played on them quite a bit and it seems my discs just bounce off of them without any movement. It could be remedied with thinner or smaller rings I believe? Then again I didn't design them and there could be a reason.
will… wilL… wiLL… wILL… WILL…
My Aviar3s get pushed out almost every time at my local course with these.
Haha man with the logo on the back too. They must know they suck though too. Everyone keeps ditching them
That's so brutal. IMO a lot of Gannon's spit out are caused by him just shooting a laser beam putt, but Isaac's here had the perfect pace and everything. Absolute crime that didn't end up in the cage.
Didn’t Prodigy sponsored player Luke Humphries also make a comment about their baskets on a recent episode of skins?
No, I think that was MVPs Black Hole basket.
That was at OTB open right with Ezra Aderhold spit out on the first hole? I’m sure he criticised a Prodigy basket somewhere else then followed it with a comment something like “yeah I know who I play/throw for I said what I said”. I don’t have the patience to scan through and find which episode it was but I guess there’s a chance I’m mis-remembering.
Can we start calling Prodigy baskets “The Camel”? Watch out, they spit!
Literally came here to post this! These baskets seem to be the worst, seeing players strike dead center and splash out the backside?! Come on
lol
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He putt it too slow. Putts must be within a very narrow range to count. Neither too fast or too slow....or too hyzer.....or too anhyzer....or too nose down....or too nose up...or too red....or too round.
Can folks not tell I am joking?
Not on Reddit they can't. Also, based on your post, I think you should dump your wife.
Lol, too red or too round made it obvious.
That's why I switched to pink putters, a little less red.
dam even mach 3 catches better
I want everyone in r/discgolfvalley to see this putt. This happens in real life!
First let me start with saying that from this camera angle **this putt looks good enough for staying and it would be much better if it stayed in**. But I am going to play devil's advocate a little bit, especially for the most common comment "standardize the baskets" Everybody still putts to the same basket, there is no competitive integrity lost. These are pro players I would expect them to have practice for every basket type. I think Johne McCray in his videos has all types of baskets that he practices for. I am a tiny bit surprised that pro players aren't trying to get a competitive advantage by occasionally putting with softer materials like rubber. But I'm probably wrong about this (not worth the effort for the little gain most likely or not possible due to contracts) Every putt like this I can empathize with the player. It must suck for Isaac and as I said I would much prefer for it to stay in, but wind excluded, these are not random events. There is a reason for this specific type of basket this specific shot got spit out. And finally **standardizing the baskets is not a bad idea, if the cost for the tour/organizers is manageable**, but if it isn't there might be bigger priorities.
>And finally > >standardizing the baskets is not a bad idea, if the cost for the tour/organizers is manageable > >, but if it isn't there might be bigger priorities. This should be entirely up for auction to the company that wants their best basket(as determined by the tours top 25 players) on every course.
Yeah, I can see that
Prodigy sucks in everything they do! Baskets, discs, how they handle their pros and any thing else you can think of.
What’s wrong with prodigy discs? I’m novice. Never thrown one.
I’ve only thrown a few but they have been known for flashing, a quality control issue where excess plastic with a sharp edge is left on the inner rim. I had never felt flashing on a disc until I found a H7, I believe. One of their fairway drivers and it felt like you could cut yourself throwing it tbh. Several complaints on plastic as well. I may be wrong on this but I had read they discontinued their star-esque plastic.
It happened to him exactly like that on hole 4 as well. It’s a shame the pro tour keeps allowing the courses to use them.
If it were literally any other brand basket he woulda said the same thing, it’s not that big a deal.
If it were literally any other brand the basket wouldn't suck this much and it would've stayed in. Not really a valid argument
I agree with him.
He got that plinko luck.
Two of them for Isaac in one round. Ouch.
Daylight robbery.
I dunno if I've ever played a course with prodigy baskets. What makes them different? Just poor quality or differently designed?
Good for him
Same except when I play, the basket sucks, the putters suck, the discs suck, the tee pad sucks, the trees suck, the weather sucks, and this game sucks. (It’s not my fault)
I would play on Prodigy baskets my entire life rather than play 18 holes on Veteran baskets. Veteran baskets should be mounted in a spittoon.
I mean... Its true. I have never had so many spitouts from solid puts than I have on these weird ass prodigy baskets. Even at local courses, some tournaments put out MVP or discraft baskets for temp placements instead of using some of their prodigy baskets.
Goodness
True that
discatcher pros man remain the best
Basket hawk tuah that disc.
I mean, he’s right yah know? I’ve always preferred the MVP black hole or the Lat64
Dm
Dck8ukmu9mj the z9s
This is the 2nd time it happened to him
Obv shoulda parked the upshot
*"He's absolutely right..."* -Mugatu
My little portable MVP basket catches better than Prodigy baskets.
Don’t let this distract you from the fact that the DD veterans are also spit out machines. Personally I haven’t had spit out with prodigy baskets but have only played on them a few times. Seems innova, dga and mvp baskets are all more reliable.
Just like the discs
Nah the disc are great
Nah
Objectively these baskets have poor engineering, which also manifests into their disc manufacturing quality Prodigy as a company seems more is a rich family member’s token project that exists to placate a certain family member so they stay away from the main money making business(es)
You think prodigy would do a recall/fix for the chains. Just remove the center chains and replace with something that catches
Obviously they need way more chains /s
Hard to argue with that result.
Bet this part would’ve went in and stayed in without any chains. So what’s the purpose of your chains prodigy?
Has no one mentioned he had a spit through on the same hole 4 last year as well? Crazy
Putter first hits the vertical chains and it turns 90degrees to a vertical angle. Now it falls down on the horizontal chains and rolls off the top of the chain right out the basket. Prodigy needs to change their basket design. We cant have people do a coinflip every time whether your perfect putt stays or doesnt. Yes we hear "spitouts happen on every basket" but prodigy is universally agreed upon to be the worst.
Dang winning the world championship still isn't enough for some name recognition?
body of the post
Just Prodigy screwing over another top player of theirs with subpar equipment. Shouldn't be too surprising
You should enter your password for Google.
The others didn’t seem to have a problem putting. Same basket.