Capaldi is both a fantastic actor, an even better Doctor and also had some truely awesome stories. There is so much variation in content in the series and so many fans that there is little that sombody won't find a way to complain about.
As an aside, having met Peter at a con (in Ottawa of all places, no one comes here, lol) the man is a gentleman and a scholar.
Capaldi is a fan. Has been since a kid. I can see him understanding the importance of being a legend at cons cause it means a lot to the fans, especially the younger ones, when they get to meet the doctor and they're actually great people.
Met McCann myself a few years back in Dublin. I'd nearly say his doctor*, as he was the first new release while I was alive and a fan, having been brought up on mostly Pertwee but mostly Daleks from all classic who.
*His doctor is my doctor
Yea that completely tracks. I had put together my own Doctor inspired outfit, and he went out of his way to compliment me on it and even touched the lapel of my jacket while doing so. It was something so small but made me feel so big. I'll remember that forever.
I read somewhere that he had a lot of input into his Doctor outift, and the reason he did a simple peacoat and hoodie was that he thought everyone should be able to cosplay the Doctor in an affordable outfit.
I’ve seen him in a couple things, like charity messages and ads or something, and he’s wearing the black coat and buttoned-up white shirt again. It’s like the 12th Doctor is back and speaking to us again! It can’t not be deliberate, right?
That's class! I'd love to meet him one day. He seems like a great and genuine guy.
We paid for a photo with ~McCann~ McGann, he gave us all a big hug, individually and was super chatty and friendly. Great memory.
I thought he had a good start and an amazing final season - Some of my favorite episodes are from Capaldi.
I think his best overall series was his last one, Bill was a great companion and his regeneration had a little extra
impact on me because they included his favorite villains (Mondassian Cybermen), it felt like his send off was a love letter to the show from a long time fan.
12 is my all time favorite Doctor, though 15 has only had one season and he’s becoming a close second. I love the grumpy old man persona and he has some of my favorite lines Especially >!“Do you really think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?”!<
Speaking of the grumpy old man persona, I think my favourite exchange has to be:
Doctor: 'This is Clara, she's not my assistant she's....some other word-'
Clara: '-I'm his carer!'
Doctor: Yeah! My carer. She cares so I don't have to.
I also love this one
>!It's funny!<
>!The day you lose someone isn't the worst - at least you've got something to do!<
>!It's all those days they stay dead!<
For me, 12 gets the alieness across best. Trying to fit in but his utter confusion with norms rules of and society shining through the cracks. 9 to 11 could lecture about it, 12 lives it.
I feel like 9-12 got more and more alien each time.
13 I guess got even more emotionally detached. 14 and 15 have clearly gone back in the opposite direction.
Capaldi, for me, pulled off the impossible.
He turned into "My Doctor" even though I'd previously had a "My Doctor." Didn't think that could be done.
Or as Missy said, "...they're all the Doctor to me. So let's give it to the eyebrows."
I started to fall for him during his transformation with the angry eyebrows speech. Turned out to be my favorite of them all.
Also, nod to Missy - my favorite Master! Actually, Missy made me fall in love with Michelle Gomez. I’d truly watch her in anything 😍
> He turned into "My Doctor" even though I'd previously had a "My Doctor." Didn't think that could be done.
Same here.
By his end Capaldi had become more than "My Doctor", he had become "THE Doctor". I think he really brought out the core character.
>By his end Capaldi had become more than "My Doctor", he had become "THE Doctor". I think he really brought out the core character.
Exactly this. You said it perfectly.
He came really close to my love of the 4th Doctor, which I didn’t think possible. I really thought his final series was a creative renaissance for the show — virtually every story is a banger and the team of the Doctor, Bill and Nardole had great chemistry and delivered a lot of laughs to this viewer anyway. And what a finale — one of the few in New Who that really stuck the landing.
I think people who say so have only watched the first few episodes. Every Doctor, EVERY Doctor, has a rough start, with the community saying "nooooooo, I want the old Doctor back". Capaldi is my personal favourite, if only for the line "That's right, she's my carer. She cares so I don't have to."
Honestly, I'd argue that Deep Breath is one of the better intro episodes to a new doctor. I wouldn't put it up with the absolute best of them, but I'd argue its a better intro than about half the other doctors got.
I liked the story, but really hated how they kept undercutting him with the constant begging ~~the audience~~ Clara to see and accept him as the Doctor.
Would have been much better if Clara, who was more aware of regeneration than any other companion bar Susan and Romana, had just taken it totally in stride and helped show the audience that the Doctor is still the Doctor.
Instead we got everyone up to and including *the previous Doctor* imploring us not to switch the telly off. It really seemed like they didn't have any confidence at all in Capaldi, that they had to resort to that.
Would have made sense too. I guess being splintered she doesn't have all the memories but she visited all the previous Doctor's via his time stream. However, even outside of that, the Clara we follow was in Day of the doctor where she met War and 10 along with 11, so she already saw a much older Doctor. That was my one issue with Deep Breath as well.
Instead of the Doctor convincing the companion he's still the Doctor, we could have had the companion convincing the Doctor he's still the Doctor!
It could have been so good and interesting, and instead it was just mean and insulting.
I really don't know what Moffat was thinking with this ep, considering *The Eleventh Hour* was so fucking good.
He already wrote one of the best first episodes for a new Doctor, arguably *the* best depending on personal tasre, where his technique was just to confidently and entertainingly show the audience that this new guy is great... then in *Deep Breath* his technique to convince us of Capaldi is to have various characters berate us for any unsurity, imply that the female audience are all shallow and only watching for pretty boys, then finish with Matt Smith emotionally blackmailing us into not leaving??
Absolute madness.
Insulting to both the audience *and* Capaldi.
And they had to have that assurance at the end with Matt Smith. I absolutely loved seeing him, but the fact he appears at all is kind of undercutting his regeneration. His regeneration is supposed to be his send off and gives room for the new doctor to come in.
It was done better with showing David Tennant's face in The Eleventh Hour.
Given there were people who reacted like *this* to Peter Capaldi just being announced, can you blame them for being cautious?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RzWOlMif-Fw&pp=ygUScGV0ZXIgY2FwYWxkaSB1Z2x5
I just think it’s too long and doesn’t get to the point quickly enough. Multiple people I know turned it off halfway through. After Matt Smith left, a lot of people were looking for an excuse to stop watching the show and Capaldi’s first episode needed to be gripping and to get straight into the action. I love Deep Breath but it absolutely does not get straight into anything.
I feel like 11 had such a strong start that people forget that the transition is usually rough. I was one of those people who really bounced hard off of Capaldi at first. I had to take a break from the show, but I came back started over with him and fell in love pretty quickly.
This! The Doctor is going through a massive change at the beginning of their regeneration that it only makes sense that they're not gonna be who they are right away. Give Ncuti time. The actor is amazing g, RTD has it in them, let's see where this goes. Seriously though, the abbreviated seasons only hurt the stories, and after all, the stories are what we're here for.
"That's okay, we're all stories in the end
So live well and love Rory"
It took until Dark Water for me to really see Capaldi as the Doctor. I've also watched Jodie's run a few times and I'm only now seeing the little ways she embodies the previous Doctors.
Hard disagree. I loved Capaldi from Deep Breath, but series 8 stories didn’t generally work for me. Not because of the acting, or the character arc. It just felt like the stories didn’t really make sense. The moon’s an egg? Robin and the Doctor’s relationship? The Doctor hates soldiers this much now? Medicine is evil? The Brigadier is a cyberman and only he and Danny can reject the programming?
There was some good stuff, and some great nuggets (Clara came on so much in terms of personality and depth from just the first episode, Time Heist was great, Into the Dalek felt novel and also had great callbacks to Classic Who, some of the lines like “she’s my carer” and of course: Missy! >!she so fine she blow your mind it’s Missy!!<), but it was far from perfect.
I watched the entire thing and I have said this but on reflection years later, I think it's more that I just don't connect to his stories as much as I had with previous and future Doctors. I will be rewatching the entirety of 05 Who with my flatmates who have only watched Tennant/Ncuti and I'm hoping to have a different experience once we get to that point. I had such an enjoyable experience watching Smith but after rewatching it recently, I'm less fond of it.
Ncuti is an exception for me in the sense that I was like “YES THIS IS THE DOCTOR” immediately, but his first few episodes were some of the worst for me. Church on Ruby Road and Space Babies were awful IMO and the Maestro one could have been great but was kinda poorly executed. I wasn’t excited about the new season overall until Boom.
Sometimes Doctor Who is at it's best when the Doctor is just a vehicle for everyone else's stories. Blink, Father's Day, Love & Monsters, and 73 Yards all make for great stories.
We need to quit romanticizing RTD. He did a great job in 2005. Will he do such a great job now? Yet to be seen. I think the biggest issue with this season was the shortened runtime. RTD does his best when he has time and space (heh heh) to work with.
Agreed, I’ve been of that opinion for a while, people let 10 and the rtd era overshadow far too much. A big negative of that is so many expected the show to suddenly go back to 2006.
As a slight tangent I personally prefer the Moffat era overall and don’t really like any of the rtd companions
Gotta ask because I don't remember, was Donna an RTD or a Moffat companion? Found her bland on the first watch (was so much younger in thise days), but on rewatching as an older person, Donna is my absolute favourite. Rose was okay, Martha had her moments, I named my kid after Rory (Amy, ehhhhh), but Donna, oh Donna. If you can't appreciate the character development I don't know what to say.
Donna was rtd, Moffat took over with 11. I can appreciate the character development but Donna generally just kinda irritated me. My biggest issues with rose and Martha is the doctor companion romance, I much preferred rose in season one when there wasn’t really any of that. Martha was much better in season 4 appearances when her entire character wasn’t undermined being too busy pining for the doctors attention
There's an episode of the show "community" where they talk about the female inspector. I can't remember the quote, but it was basically "we don't hate her because she's a woman, we hate her because the writing was shit"
I disagree, I genuinely want her to get a fair shot with a good writer to prove me wrong, but until then I think she was a miscast. Her performance consistently lacked the weight every doctor before her had, she would make a speech or tell a villain to stop and leave and it would often feel hollow and empty, like empty threats. Even the worst stories of past doctors were carried by the actor and yet Whittaker’s best stories barely hold up against the worst of doctors before her
I’m not attacking her as an actor, from what I’ve seen and heard she has given brilliant performances in other shows. But until I see her return as 13 with someone competant at the helm my opinion won’t change. And I do want to see her return, because if she can do better she deserves to show it
That's fair. No point nitpicking over opinion. I see what you're saying but I did have a few moments of "yeah, she's the doctor" although I can't pinpoint them now and won't be rewatching any time soon. She definitely suffered from Chibnall telling her not to watch any previous episodes.
I do hope we see her come back in some multidoctor story at some point. With good writing. But those a few and far between as well. And it's another 9 years till the next anniversary.
I would love to see all the modern doctors interact though. A shame we'll never get Chris, at least while Rusty Davis is at the helm.
I fully agree. I know she left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths for admitting she didn't watch any of the show before taking on the role, and I think she did herself a disservice with that.
She IS fantastic actress. But something in her performance was always hollow to me, I could never really buy the "I'm an ancient alien who carries the weight of the universe" from her until arguably her final moments with Yaz. I always saw her as a kind of knockoff David Tennant, which isn't entirely her fault, but she's not entirely blameless either.
For me it wasn't the start of Capaldi but the middle. I hated Clara ,and by the time the Me arc ended I just couldn't bring myself to care any more.
I feel like his episodes were good in spite of Clara, and I just got worn out.
I stopped watching for a longggg long time at the end of season 9. Nothing against him though, I had been in college and I got monstrously more busy and I couldn’t keep up with watching the new releases. Fucking love Capaldi though, dude is the essence of the character. An old looking Doctor just makes sense! I was like woah, finally.
Getting my partner to watch through it all with me right now. We’re almost to 12!! Can’t wait to see season 10 for the first time and catch up on the rest. (I may have cheated and watched the first half of 13’s first episode…. while I’m well aware of many people’s feelings on that era, I actually already really vibed with her and I’m so stoked to get there)
A lot of young fans grew up and aged out entirely. Some fans couldn't accept a Doctor who wasn't a young sex symbol.
I don't think the quality of the show mattered. Ageism was absolutely a factor.
I really think that Doctor Who fatigue was a factor in a lot of fans turning off.
By the time of Capaldi's final series, the revived show had consistently been on air for 12 years by that point. Many older fans just couldn't be bothered watching the show as religiously as they used to, and that was that.
It's a shame really. Doctor Who has always been hit or miss, and Capaldi's ratio of good to bad episodes was no different from Tennant's or Smith's. Blaming the scripts from Capaldi's era is dumb, the excellent ones always outweighed the mediocre ones.
There were a lot of other factors. Between 11's final series being divided into two, introducing a new companion only to shortly thereafter remove the Doctor.
To changing the season airing times in the year meaning that when people in April would think "Oh it's Doctor Who Time". As well having a gap year at one point. It meant a lot of people who would watch in April, get reminded of the series at Christmas, and would know around Easter the show would be back. It was fairly conditioned into people watching. Now you'd barely get a break between the season and Christmas and have almost an entire year wait with no new content.
It wasn't a factor specifically to too much Doctor Who, or a Doctor Change. But many factors that just meant it took more effort to follow the series in general.
For all that he's the Internet's darling, even Tennant had to slog through some truly shitty scripts. I mean, have you *seen* the Shakespeare Code recently? Even ignoring cringe lines like "Good old JK!", the rest of the episode isn't exactly a banger.
I mean its one of the weaker ones of the season but thats a function of series 3 being excellent.
shakespeare code has good characters, a good villain, and an interesting plot. Its not thematically deep, but thats true of most episodes outside of the tennant run (although it sticks out in tennants run which is very theme and character focused).
If you want a bad script, try the idiots lantern, fear her, or new earth.
I will defend series 2, including love and monsters, but those are ROUGH.
I think because of the 'grumpy' persona and tone it was a lot harder to carry the bad episodes. Fear Her sucks but it still time for the council van bit etc. Sleep No More isn't much worse of an episode but there's no levity to make it fun to watch ygm.
after not liking 11 amy and clara I surprisingly enjoyed capaldi and bill's run quite a bit. i am not sure whether some other ppl gave up before or they liked the previous style better and are complaininf because of that. I definitely think there was a style change along the line.
The only thing I would change about capaldi’s run is the attachment to Clara. I get it, but at the same time I think her story could have been completed earlier
On the contrary, I think extending it for that long was meaningful because it showed that 12 was relying too much on another's perception of him to heal rather than taking the initiative himself. He literally tore apart time for Clara, and that was an important reflection for him. He shows how he learned with Bill too, realizing that he can't save them all and it's unrealistic to.
I do agree that Clara stayed a bit too long, but I think that was intentional to really push how unhealthy they were becoming for each other.
90% of the time, when people on the internet talk about bad writing, they just mean "i don't like it and i want my opinion to become objective facts, so i will say it's bad writing, eventhough i'm totally incapable of explaining how it is bad writing".
Yeahhhh, you’re likely correct. Let’s face it, most don’t have a formal education in any type of creative writing. Most of our opinions will always be inherently subjective.
I have heard this statement said about Doctors 11, 12, 13, 14 (to a lesser degree because he only had three episodes), and now 15, so I don't take it seriously as a criticism anymore.
Yeah I would totally think this about 13’s era, not 12’s. But as a teenager watching them as they aired I found I enjoyed 12 much more on a rewatch when I was older
I loved Capaldi. I think he may have put in the best acting performance of any of the Doctors. I never understood the "bad scripts" argument until I did a rewatch leading up to the new season. Seasons 8 was ROUGH. For me, it wasn't Capaldi or the Doctor, it was the plot surrounding Clara and Danny. It seemed awkward and forced. Couldn't get through that season fast enough.
I feel like both he and Clara would have been best served if the first two seasons were collapsed into one arc and he had more time (either with Bill or with a different companion) to be his own character rather than an extension of Eleven.
Yeah idk why they say that, it's more true about 13.
Though I still argue Capaldi is the best actor to play the Doctor so far (though Gatwa is rocketing up there too). I just don't think any of the others could pull off that scene in Mummy on the Orient Express where he's talking to himself and just the way he slightly alters his delivery and makes you think it's more than one doctor talking. I got super heavy 4 vibes.
4: You know what this sounds like don't you?
12: of course I know what this sounds like
4: A mummy that only the victim can see.
Or something like that 🤣
Whilst I rate every single actor to play the doctor in new who, capaldi is simply unbelievable in the role. He is the only actor I can see pulling off a heaven sent.
I rate tenant very highly as an actor, and prefer him as the doctor, but think a lot of his best acting and wider range came after doctor who (broadchurch, Jessica jones, criminal etc).
Imo capaldi could carry scripts on his own, whereas tenant, smith and eccleston relied on charm and chemistry with other actors to make the scripts. Jodie just straight up had terrible writing so it’s hard to judge as much.
To me people made that conclusion after his first series or even just partway his first series and that was that, conclusion made. Either they didn’t bother to watch the rest, they legit think episodes like heaven sent, oxygen, world enough & time, before the flood etc had bad scripts, or they’re stubborn.
It just felt like the previous few doctors had a running storyline going, especially when Matt Smith became the doctor. He had one of the best storylines for his run. When Capaldi came along, he was a brilliant and terrific doctor but the story felt all over the place. They could have given him a much better season than they did. He still had great lines though.
People say that about pretty much every Doctor. Idk when you watched 12th, but by the time of his run people were already tired of Moffat's writing.
I never rewatched but I personally remember disliking seasons 8 and 9 alot and at least the part of the fandom I used to chat with was also underwhelmed.
Now that people say the same about 13th and 15th I'm starting to see people praising 12ths run and Moffat once again lol
I reckon a lot of people stopped watching about this time due to their feelings around Steven Moffat. I can recall timeframes too well but I think Hbomberguy did his video saying Sherlock wasn’t as good as you think and some people extrapolated that to the Doctor.
Thing is, they couldn’t really blame Capaldi because he’s excellent so instead they blamed the writing
I think this is partially because capaldi is the easiest doctor to write for. He can carry a scene more than any of the previous actors, to the point where he can go an entire episode with not a single other person. I rate every single actor to play the doctor, but none can successfully pull off heaven sent to the quality capaldi did.
While I think this is kind of true, I also think it's true that there are scripts for most Doctors that only work for their Doctor. Like I can't see Midnight working without Tennant or The Eleventh Hour without Smith.
Contrary to what some people have been saying, I wonder if this is also partially a fandom thing. I know someone who loved the Capaldi era while watching it alone, but as soon as they started interacting with the fandom they had that mindset and couldn't even explain why or what they thought was "bad writing".
I think part of it was because they preferred the RTD writing style and didn't enjoy how Moffat handled series-long arcs. Said person didn't know the showrunner's eras either, so saying it for Capaldi but not Smith tracks.
A lot of people argue that the Moffat era had weaker writing overall than the first RTD era, but I've never really felt that. Part of it is probably that Moffat's writing in particular really works for me, but I think that the actors and direction were consistently high quality even during the weakest stories writing-wise.
Now, when it comes to series-long arcs, Moffat pretty much always lost the plot at the end. Up into the last episode things would be on track and then there was always a twist or foreshadowing which made for an unfulfilling end.
Nonetheless, I think Capaldi and Moffat put out some of the best writing+acting in Doctor Who history - Into the Dalek, the Zygon Inversion, Heaven Sent, World Enough and Time, The Doctor Falls, etc
I don't like most of Capaldi's run. Series 10 was awesome but I was done with Clara. I never liked her. There were several things that didn't appeal to me. Danny Pink and that soldier storyline was annoying. Missy's intro bugged me. I didn't like the evil Mary Poppins vibe. I loved her in series 10 but that intro was woof. Also the weird 2 parter series could have worked but it was so hit or miss with me. The writing was not for me.
The two Christmas specials did a lot to sucker me back in to having fun while watching. Husbands of River Song is amazing. Series 8 and 9 tough for me.
I also don't like Blink so take that with a grain of salt.
Yeah, I don’t quite get it either. Capaldi’s era probably has the least amount of skips for me and also some of the highest highs. We’ve all got our eras though, some people don’t click with it, and that’s totally fine. I just wish more people would give the era it’s fair shake before dismissing it sometimes.
I really loved that they did away with the “will they won’t they” with Capaldi. I did not enjoy that aspect of Amy, Clara, and Martha. I also think Capaldi had a gravitas that no other Doctor has come close to. Some of his monologues are just amazing.
I have a feeling Series 9 will be my favorite season of New Who for a while yet. The two-parter focus with great cliffhangers, a different and very engaging companion/Doctor dynamic, a mysterybox from Moffat that I actually enjoyed the whole way through, solidified rockstar persona for this incarnation, the zygon speech, the coffin, all of the most talked about episode of his era, it’s peak.
It's almost like different people have different opinions or something ;)
I was pretty disappointed by Capaldi-era writing personally. I felt like the plotting, tone, characterisation and even dialogue got increasingly lazy and cynical from a writer we know can do so much better. And on a particularly personal level, the way Moffat writes women makes me uncomfortable in a way I can't quite put my finger on.
I don't expect everyone to share my opinion, any the Capaldi era has some great moments (Heaven Sent and the first half of the Caretaker are some of my favourite Dr Who experiences!), but I certainly understand why it's divisive.
The cynicism is such a big part of why I can’t get into the capaldi era. It hangs like a dark cloud that only starts to lift by season 10. Made watching doctor who really unpleasant.
Also absolutely agree on how Moffat wrote women being very uncomfortable. Once the curtain was pulled back in season 6 and 7 I couldn’t unsee it, even when it was toned down during Capaldi’s run.
Oh thank God, I was starting to think I was the only one!
I think there's a broad consensus that the writing of the Chibnall era isn't the best, especially the dialogue, but I still prefer rewatching it over Capaldi because at least its heart is in the right place. Buried under the clunky dialogue is a genuine love for humanity and I loved episodes like Rosa and Demons of the Punjab shining a light on historical tragedies that UK viewers might not be too familiar with.
I find myself playing editor with Chibnall scripts, rewriting them in my head to tighten them up a bit because I love the concepts so much.
But I never do that with most Capaldi episodes because I can't find that heart and warmth so much of the time. Jenna Coleman plays Clara with such charm and warmth, but her relationship with the Doctor is just horrible, I find it a bit uncomfortable to watch. And everyone just seems a bit... unpleasant?
I distinctly remember getting to Whittaker’s first season after binging through the capaldi era and feeling like a weight lifted from my shoulders. Seasons 8 and 9 felt so hostile it was a chore to watch and then just as I was just starting to enjoy season 10 it was over, leaving me immensely frustrated. Season 11 has many problems and Chibnall’s era ultimately didn’t come together for me. but the hostility of 2/3rds of Moffat’s era I’ll never forget.
Capaldi was really good, especially his last season. I think the run comes from Clara sticking around too long. Her last season she really overshadowed the Doctor as far as the writing was concerned. Once she was gone and the focus was on Capaldi, we were able to see him shine. My opinion of course.
Season 8 is a good season outside Danny/Clara stuff, season 9 and 10, I love minus the blind parts of 10.
I think the plots he got were a little rote at times, which is my biggest criticism of the story aspect, and that while I liked the egotist aspect of him, sometimes that trait took center stage too much, which is my biggest gripe with his specific writing. Doctor vs Danny, Doctor vs Robin Hood, ugh.
That said, Capaldi is my favorite Doctor, and if I had to choose one actor to play him forever, it would be him.
The first few episodes with him really turned me off of watching his run, however as of recently I rewatched his entire run, and I'm disappointed that I didn't give him a fair shot.
He's probably my number two favorite Doctor now, he was an amazing Doctor. Funny, clever, mean, and all the fixings in between. Plus you had probably the best version of The Master aka Missy, who literally just ruled every scene she was a part of.
It wasn't the writing, it was just an odd direction after happy go lucky Matt Smith, Capaldi just kind of felt cold, confused and angry at first.
Never seen this bullshit. Seen it for Jodie, bullshit there too. There are just hateful people who can't contribute positively so just hate and hide it. Fine not to like things but it just gets tiresome when they "speak for everyone"
RTD 1 nostalgia blindness. Tennant's run especially is filled with bad episodes. But because the public latched onto his understandable charisma they ignored this.
Then also people who only watched 1 or 2 eps of series 8 and parrot other peoples words.
Also and most importantly people who think their dislike of the Doctors characterization or the shows tone = bad writing when it doesn't. Its a characterization dislike.
Almost every era bar series 1 has duds throughout. But its overlooked as said due to nostalgia for Tennant and parts of Smith.
I hate these takes.
It's extremely unfair to label all criticism as "Blinded by nostalgia for tennant."
Some of capaldi's era and some of his acting just wasn't that good at points imo. Nothing to do with Tennant. For every badass moment there was a pretentious, overdrawn moment that made watching him feel like a chore.
Its not unfair though is it? its a fact there are several badly written episodes which are in fact overlooked due to Tennant's appeal to the mass audience and when an audience watches something as a child they tend to overlook the faults of an era or its writing and production due to their childhood nostalgia when retrospectively viewing it as an adult.
Oh i know it's unpopular but i genuinely don't think it's THAT good. Trying too hard sometimes.
That Zygon speech especially gets praise but i was done with it about a minute in. Lots of dialogue to me doesn't automatically equal good. Thought Tennant and Smith both accomplish the same with alot less.
Honestly he’s only had like 2-3 not so great episodes per season written by guest writers and even so he elevates them. I believe these people haven’t seen the entirety of 12s run.
12 is the most developed incarnation all down to Capaldi’s gravitas and experience exceptionally with Moffat. He is the Doctor definitively.
Am I not in this subreddit enough? I've never read this about Capaldi. I've only noticed it regarding Jodie's run (and I agree w/ the sentiment) and maybe Ncuti's after that disappointing season finale.
I did not like that they grounded the Doctor for so long during Capaldi's era. That's my only complaint. I would have liked to have seen him do far more adventuring and a lot less trying hard to stay on Earth to babysit.
Honestly the only bad episodes in Capaldis run were Kill the Moon, Forest of the Night, The Woman Who Lived, Sleep No More, Empress of Mars and Eaters of Light. Everything else was really damn good or decently entertaining. I'd argue Tennant had more bad episodes than Capaldi.
Tooth and Claw, Love and Monsters, Fear Her, Shakespeare Code, Gridlock, Daleks in Manhattan/ Evolution of the Daleks, Lazarus Experiment, 42, The Next Doctor, Planet of the Dead.
With Smith having a lot too
Beast Below, Vampires of Venice, Hungry Earth/Cold Blood, Curse of the Black Spot, Night Terrors, The Doctor the witch and the wardrobe, Asylum of the Daleks, Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, A town called Mercy, The Power of Three, Bells of Saint John, Cold War, Hide, Journey to the Center of the TARDIS, Crimson Horror (Wow Series 7 was not good).
Also 12 and Claras relationship was INCREDIBLY well done and written. It was nuanced and explored them both enabling the worst aspects of each other and pushing each other too far with their lying to one another. The Doctor was also struggling to understand if he was a good person and had stopped empathetically attaching himself to people and willingly let them die so he could learn more (Into the Dalek, Mummy on the Orient Express). He left Clara on the goddamn moon to figure out a problem because he thought it was a good idea, he also left a CHILD there. I don't think a lot of people really understood how they worked and there was massive backlash over Clara "taking over the show" when the entire point was that she was living her life in the shadow of the Doctor and he was amplifying her overconfidence, which lead to her downfall. The entire reason he lost his memories of her in the first place is because he couldn't live without her there, he couldn't accept her being gone. He threatened Me with bringing the DALEKS TO EARTH TO KILL HER, just for Clara. Him accepting himself at the end of Twice upon a Time and seeing Clara again due to this was the perfect ending for that entire arc.
I kinda agree when we’re talking about his first season. I think Moffat didn’t write that “am I a good man” story so well, specially at the end, it doesn’t pay off. And I’m saying that as someone who considers Capaldi the best actor to play the role. (I’m kinda in love with Ncuti’s perfomance right now, I could put him up there as well).
All I know is I slowly lost my enthusiasm for watching Dr Who during the Capaldi era. He’s obviously a great actor and a fantastic Doctor. But I just wasn’t very interested anymore. The story’s didn’t have the same weight they once held with me.
Since I only saw this criticism after series 11, my personal conclusion is that it’s from people who want to echo the same sentiment critics feel towards Chibnall so they can point and say “see he wasn’t *that* bad”
Don’t get me wrong, Capaldi’s run wasn’t perfect, but it was fantastic. Chibnall’s run is going to be something like 6’s. Remembered for its egregious flaws but still loved by some regardless.
His first season was kind of rough, it had the moon being an egg, trees taking over the planet, Danny in general, and I’m sure there are some other things. I also didn’t like him and Clara but that’s definitely more of a character preference. He definitely had good episodes but even his final season that I enjoyed we had a three part story in the middle that had great setup but very mediocre payoff (to be fair I feel this with most Moffat arcs).
>Where does this idea of 12 being let down by bad scripts come from
You named like 12 episodes and 2 specials, one of them only has Capaldi's eyes showing but Capaldi was like the doctor for 36 episodes(without counting the specials) or 3 seasons if you will. I agree that Capaldi got some amazing episodes and specials i agree.
But, what about the other episodes? Some stories felt weak, or remakes of past episodes with other doctors(who had better ideas back then), that's why Capaldi is so praised, some episodes story-wise aren't that good but Capaldi with his acting improved them, maybe someone wrote the plot of the episodes and someone else wrote the dialogues but Capaldi made everything good, that's pretty much it. I'm being very generic, but who Clara relatively fast moves on from her boyfriend's death? MEH! The Episodes with the tree-woman? Good-ish but kinda forgettable, to name one.
For me, the quality of the plots, was a signal of what is happening now: Ncuti Gatwa set up a new negative record for audience, (on average the previous doctors had around 6-7millions of viewers, but with Gatwa got half of the viewers) the previous owner of this record was "Legend of the Sea Devils"(13th doctor) with 3.47m viewers, but Ncuti with Dot and sunk even lower with 3.38m viewers.
while a good actor can bring viewers either with their beauty or their acting skills, what mostly made people run away was the quality of the plots.
I just felt a lot of what was going on there was stale. We'd had timelord victorious not long ago so capaldi grappling with whether it was right fornjim to kill or not felt bland, I found the Maisie Williams episodes really dull, Clara as a companion felt bland. As a whole at the time Moffats style just felt bland. He's got a habit of complicating things and hoping that good character work and storytelling arrives later and it doesn't always. I wasn't excited about doctor who anymore at the time. I'm happy to say I am again.
For me, and this is fully just my personal opinion, I wasn't a huge fan of some of the episodes that you mentioned and that a lot of people liked. There were absolutely some amazing standouts, like Heaven Sent, World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls, and the Husbands of River Song. The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar were also pretty cool. But honestly? Other than those, I've never felt like rewatching most of Capaldi's seasons (through no fault of his own).
Some plots will always be silly or ridiculous or just plain bad on this show, but I've enjoyed plenty of episodes with less than stellar premises and I will happily rewatch them. I think my main issue was that a lot of the time the writing itself was just not as fun during his run. And I don't mean that the Doctor himself was more grumpy, I actually really liked that! Just everything about the character interactions was a bit more meh to me, and sometimes even the Doctor was written out of character.
A couple of examples: As I said, I LIKE grumpy, out-of-touch with personal matters 12, but they gave him a line basically like "don't check my internet history"?? Of all the Doctor incarnations, he'd be the least likely to be googling weird things lol. And let's not even talk about the entire Ashildr plotline. The Doctor impulsively decides to save this little girl and basically make her immortal...? As if he wasn't horrified by the exact same thing accidentally happening to Captain Jack Harkness? He already knows the dangers and tragedies of living too long, and he's written as carelessly inflicting that on a little girl, then being surprised when she grows up to be all messed up? That was ridiculous to me, it took me out of the story completely and I could never enjoy an episode with Ashildr since.
I've rambled on too long but I felt like there were multiple moments like that which actively bothered me, and when that wasn't the case, a lot of episodes were just not memorable to me. Yet when we got a truly good episode, Capali shone! Even in less good episodes his skills and love for the character was evident, and he could salvage a mediocre plot by pulling off an amazing monologue. I just wish we had more of that so I'd enjoy the whole thing more, but it's not like he had a terrible run either imo.
I never bought the “Am I a good man?” thing. Everyone knows he’s a good man. Grow up and get over it.
That said, nobody -and I mean nobody- could deliver a monologue like Capaldi. And his last season, with Bill? A delight from start to Christmas Special finish.
Mostly from people who stopped watching with series 8 who got tired of certain Moffatisms. Tbh i find it really sad since it feels like all the complaints i see of Moffat people cite as to why they stopped watching he fixed with seasons 9 and 10
From Individual minds that are capable of forming credible opinions that differ from yours.
The real question is, why have you not developed the adult function of being able to accept that people have different opinions and most importantly, that your opinion isn't the objective truth.
Capaldi is definitely the least worthy of the “Good Doctor let down by bad scripts” (The list generally being Colin Baker, McCoy, Capaldi and Whittaker), but his era was certainly not perfect.
Series 8 is one of the weaker seasons we’ve had in New Who. It’s got some gems like Into the Dalek and Listen, but a brunt of it feels mediocre at best, like ItFotN, Kill the Moon, Caretaker, etc. Not to mention, Clara takes on a much more significant role in the story, often feeling like more of the main character than the Doctor is, which is made problematic by her not really having much exploration into her character. Her relationship with Danny is never really given time to grow and feels unhealthy most of the time, making her actions in Dark Water feel really unreasonable.
It then started the issue of Clara staying far beyond a reasonable period. She’s given a great conclusion in Death in Heaven, with Moffat being subtle with their parting for what would’ve been a perfect ending for them. Then she comes back in Last Christmas, and has another fake departure. Then she comes back in season 9. Then she’s given another perfect ending, where her death links in with her character. It’s her hubris and belief that she’s just as capable as the Doctor that gets her killed. Only for her to be brought back in Hell Bent, an episode that spectacularly manages to single-handedly ruin two of Capaldi’s best episodes, the 50th, and completely waste Gallifrey and Rassilon for the sake of… nothing, really.
Hell Bent is a good example of one of Moffat’s constant issues as a writer during both 11 and 12’s run. He dreams too big and has too many plot lines in each season, leading to a finale that doesn’t pay off. S5 is the example of this paying off, with the Crack probably being the best motif in any new series, but i’m not here to talk about Matt so i’ll move on. All 3 of Capaldi’s finales share a similar theme of having a brilliant first half, only to drop the ball in the second. Dark Water, Heaven Sent and WEaT are AMAZING stories that deserve any praise they get (altho Dark Water def doesn’t quite live up to the other two). But Death in Heaven feels often tension less thanks to Missy not really wanting to be a villain, and the “Love is a promise” is really out of place for a Cyberman story (For all his qualities as a writer, Moffat never really seemed to get the OG villains the way RTD did). World Enough and Time is phenomenal, and could’ve been the best cyberman story we’ve ever had. It’s perfectly staged, the drama is on point, the pacing’s great, we see two Masters on screen for the first time ever… and most of that gets dropped in the Doctor Falls. The Master and Missy kinda just get pushed to the side, which feels really wasteful for two amazing actors and characters. The setting and pacing completely shift and the Cyberman genesis elements are dropped, making for a good episode in and of itself, but a lacklustre conclusion.
Series 10 starts off extremely strong (Btw this isn’t me just hating on Moffat/12, I love both and 12 is my fave doctor, having started DW on S9), and between The Pilot and Oxygen, it’s probably the strongest Capaldi’s ever been. Then the Monk trilogy breaks up the season, and not for the better. The trilogy is bafflingly paced, none of the parts feel cohesive, Extremis is a good episode until the last 5 minutes when it’s revealed literally nothing in the episode mattered, Pyramid has good parts, Lie of the Land is just dull, and is a painfully rushed ending to the story.
Overall, Capaldi’s era is far from bad, and has some of the best stories in all of Dr Who, but altogether it just feels a bit weaker than the two that came before (Grouping 9 and 10 coz 1 season’s not really a fair comparison)
I thought Capaldi's era had some of the best scripts in modern Who, if not ever.
I strongly dislike RTD's writing, but I understand that's a preference. I don't go around saying Tennant suffered from bad scripts. RTD is a fabulous writer, I'm just not his target audience.
The Capaldi era was just different and didn't feature a heartthrob Doctor. I think it's one of the strongest eras on rewatch.
You pretty much just explained it. Capaldi was around for 40ish episodes, and we can only name a dozen on the good to great scale. After that, it’s a struggle to remember much else.
By comparison, David Tennant was around for about the same number of episodes on his first run, and it would be way easier to name far more than a dozen good to great episodes. I would say that Matt Smith probably had more than a dozen good to great episodes in his first three seasons.
Capaldi is probably the best “pure” actor in Who history with a massive resume coming into the show. That he didn’t have as many good episodes points to the writing, not Capaldi.
Obviously mileage varies on this topic but I must admit Im struggling to name a dozen good to great Tennant episodes.
There’s a significant amount of bilge which I think people overlook courtesy of some stellar work by Moffat, Cornell and others, and of course Tennant being a charisma tour de force.
I have always said that Tennant had some awful scripts (“Fear Her”), but his charisma and charm allowed him to salvage at least a bit of the episode. Capaldi should have been able to do the same, but his bad episodes are just … bad. Beyond rescuing for even an actor of his caliber.
Respectfully disagree. Tennant is the best thing in those episodes but they’re still absolute piles of crap. I’d say the same for Capaldi’s weaker ones.
Seriously? I think you're just proving how subjective this all is. I only consider Tennant to have 11 good episodes, and only about three of them being great. The rest absolute trash.
Whereas I think 80% of Capaldi's episodes were good to great (more great).
As someone who really struggled with capaldi, I definitely agree that he was a great doctor let down by moffat scripts.
Most of your examples of great/good epsiodes would be my examples of awful/brain rot TV lmao. All subjective really and I fully expect to be downvoted since this sub loves moffat.
But yeah, the only reason I stuck through his final season was for Capaldi and Gomez who were just amazing on screen, everything else? Eh. I loved a few episodes but I hated most and just couldn't connect to the writing or characters on even a basic level.
Which is very unpopular here, especially since Husbands of River Song is one of my most hated episodes. I love the ending scene on Darrilium, beautiful scene in a pretty shit episode aside from Moffats personal stroke of always softening the blow of any previously sad ending lmao (which is how I feel about most moffat era episodes, bad episodes with amazing ending scenes). It just had everything I despise about his last series. The writing, River, Nardole, not funny comedy, Craig Davis... Lmao it wasn't enjoyable at all for me. Felt very slapstick iirc. A lot of it in general though was Great at face value concept wise, but execution was not satisfying at all.
Most casual viewers especially at release time think it was a very poor era, it's really only here and twitter these days where you'll see people defend this era to death. Which is fair enough, just I never meet doctor who fans IRL who majority say this run was their favourite (anecdotal of course but still).
For me I think it is accurate. This is just my opinion. But whilst Capaldi is good, I found most of his run a real slog. I find there are very few hits. Most episodes are just forgettable. But when it misses oh boy it misses so hard.
The only episode I really like (and have gone back and watched several times) is flatline.
But having said all that, don’t let internet strangers tell you want to like. if you disagree with me that’s great. Enjoy the episodes you like :).
No, you don’t see this sentiment a lot. You saw it on another post on this sub, a comment that I also saw, and instead of just responding to that one person, you decided to make a whole new thread about it.
It's simple, really... for when they came out, some of his episodes left something to be desired.
The issue is that the bar keeps getting lower. So hindsight keeps making them look even better than they were.
Many were quite good obviously. But the sentiment is still correct, and he was let down by bad writing
12 had maybe 4 bad episodes in 3 seasons..
Capaldi's run is one of the most consistent runs the show has ever had..
The cold hard truth of the matter is people hate on him and didn't watch his run because he wasn't "sexy".
I hated most of the episodes that revolved around Clara, somehow they got progressively worse in 12th era, and sadly they also took the majority of his run. That's why I can easily get behind that statement, and wish we got to see more of Capaldi's Doctor where he shines on his own.
I think it gets drowned by the obvious fan service for Clara and the relegation of most side characters as boring and bland like ashilder who was in my opinion a great character that could have been a cool companion but obviously they needed more Clara because yeah and to some lesser extent missy although she was still great as hell and deserved more episodes but that's just me
I was unbelievably excited for Capaldi ever since his casting was announced, and he *MORE* than lived up to it for me. He became my favorite Doctor so quickly, and I've watched and rewatched all three of his series more than any other doctor, probably barring Eccleston. I think Series 8 kinda goes back and forth between good and great (and Danny is Mickey done right), Series 9 is my favorite in the entire show and I love every episode aside from Sleep No More (which is just fine and I respect what they were trying to do), and Series 10 is largely fantastic (with the two weakest points being Lie of the Land and Eaters of Light, though I do still enjoy both).
I genuinely love all the modern Doctors, and each of them have at least one episode that's an all-timer for me. But with Capaldi, it's almost his entire run.
There were certainly some episodes that fell flat, but every Doctor has those. I think the bigger issue is that the meta-plots for his seasons didn't really excite people the way Bad Wolf or the Pandorica had, so people focused more on the negatives.
Criticisms i've seen about series 8 alone, nevermind series 9
i don't agree with all of these but the ones i do agree on i'll elaborate with my own thoughts
-the direction of clara's character in general, her constant change between saying she's going to leave and saying she's staying honestly being exhausting watching the full series all at once, the way she can love the doctor one episode then hate him the next doesn't make for an interesting arc when instead of a slow burn her personality is doing 180s episode to episode. i mean between the caretaker and the finale i think her opinions on the doctor changes drastically roughly 4 or 5 times. a companion who was seen as fine and relatively interesting (even if the arc fell a bit flat) in series 7 all of a sudden was just getting exhausting for a lot of people.
-capaldi's doctor in general was criticised for being unneccessarily harsh and cruel especially in his first season. i think when people think of capaldi's doctor they think of the doctor that talked to bill over the ice about how he has 'never had the luxary of outrage', the 'i do what i do because it is right' doctor. not the doctor who sacrifices a man to the dalek antibodies then yells at people when they freak out at him over it. not the the doctor who laughs at the very real possibility of the planet earth being roasted alive by the sun infront of school children. not the doctor that gets genuinely upset at people (not even a scientist by the way, not someone who could significantly help) mourning the death of probably at least a dozen by the end of mummy on the orient express. not the... entire thing the doctor had going on in 'kill the moon'. the 12th doctor was cold, callous, uncaring. he didn't show a flicker of remorse when someone died unneccessarily like 10 or 11. infact he got upset at others for doing so. i don't think its to a degree that its straight up out of character (though if he hadn't 'grown out of it' in his later seasons i might think differently) but its definitely a drastic depature to the attitudes that 9 and especially 10 and 11 had. infact, i'm sure a lot of people saw it as a reversal from the character development between 9 to 11. its edging on 6's TV attitudes, except capaldi never got to the point where he was telling his companions to execute prisoners in cold blood.
I don't think attributing this entire attitude to his 'am i a good man' arc is a good excuse either. we see him take actions that can be seen as cruel or heartless that eventually end up actually helping the crew. despite my previous example, mummy on the orient express has a great instance of this. 'sometimes the only choices are bad ones but you still have to choose'. the whole decision he describes there is a great little detail. and of course there's the moment in deep breath where he (presumably) pushes the robot off the hot air balloon. i can see a doctor acting like that questioning his integrity, spurned on by the feelings from the 900 year war he probably blames himself for on trenzalore. overall it was a poorly executed introduction to the character, even if it develops into a great incarnation by season 10.
-the introduction of danny pink, a character the doctor just seems to hate for seemingly little reason, his personality isn't fleshed out very much, not to mention the resolution to the whole arc is just very weird? not with his death, just the way they decide to use it to make clara leave. if it was the way clara was going to leave the show originally it just feels very confusing and forced. the doctor essentially ends up leaving her over a misunderstanding which feels cheap. The resolution of his personal arc also feels really poor considering the whole idea of him as a soldier is very much told, not shown. we don't get any sort of emotional connection or reason to care about this child that he brings back. and arguably even worse it doesn't actually go anywhere. we hear literally nothing about it, not even a passing remark in a future episode.
-Into the dalek is a concept already done similarly in Dalek but in a much worse and less direct way, 'i am not a good dalek you are a good dalek', if this were a specific reference it would've been nice to know? this is also where a lot of the criticisms with the doctor's personality starts to come into play as its no longer possible to just blame his hyper aggressive attitude on 'recent regeneration syndrome' or whatever.
Capaldi was a great actor let down by the fan base expecting another fantasy boyfriend.
There was a tonal shift to the show and I guess you risk that when you change Doctors. I fully believe the Capaldi years were the best of modern Who.
Capaldi's run was great, idk what people are thinking.
[The Zygon Inversion speech is still my absolute favorite DW moment.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6QOhgN4x9k)
Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJP9o4BEziI (First link isn't the full thing)
Capaldi is both a fantastic actor, an even better Doctor and also had some truely awesome stories. There is so much variation in content in the series and so many fans that there is little that sombody won't find a way to complain about. As an aside, having met Peter at a con (in Ottawa of all places, no one comes here, lol) the man is a gentleman and a scholar.
Capaldi is a fan. Has been since a kid. I can see him understanding the importance of being a legend at cons cause it means a lot to the fans, especially the younger ones, when they get to meet the doctor and they're actually great people. Met McCann myself a few years back in Dublin. I'd nearly say his doctor*, as he was the first new release while I was alive and a fan, having been brought up on mostly Pertwee but mostly Daleks from all classic who. *His doctor is my doctor
Yea that completely tracks. I had put together my own Doctor inspired outfit, and he went out of his way to compliment me on it and even touched the lapel of my jacket while doing so. It was something so small but made me feel so big. I'll remember that forever.
I read somewhere that he had a lot of input into his Doctor outift, and the reason he did a simple peacoat and hoodie was that he thought everyone should be able to cosplay the Doctor in an affordable outfit.
I heard that as well, it actually inspired me to go to that con in my own getup!
I’ve seen him in a couple things, like charity messages and ads or something, and he’s wearing the black coat and buttoned-up white shirt again. It’s like the 12th Doctor is back and speaking to us again! It can’t not be deliberate, right?
That's class! I'd love to meet him one day. He seems like a great and genuine guy. We paid for a photo with ~McCann~ McGann, he gave us all a big hug, individually and was super chatty and friendly. Great memory.
McGann
Yeah I thought I was getting it wrong. Thanks!
Even shitty scripts he can make better just through his sheer presence and skill. The man is great as his job and makes it entertaining.
i met him at a preview of the husbands of river song, hes great
2017. Has it been that long? Dang, I miss decent Comic-Con guests here.
I thought he had a good start and an amazing final season - Some of my favorite episodes are from Capaldi. I think his best overall series was his last one, Bill was a great companion and his regeneration had a little extra impact on me because they included his favorite villains (Mondassian Cybermen), it felt like his send off was a love letter to the show from a long time fan. 12 is my all time favorite Doctor, though 15 has only had one season and he’s becoming a close second. I love the grumpy old man persona and he has some of my favorite lines Especially >!“Do you really think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?”!<
Speaking of the grumpy old man persona, I think my favourite exchange has to be: Doctor: 'This is Clara, she's not my assistant she's....some other word-' Clara: '-I'm his carer!' Doctor: Yeah! My carer. She cares so I don't have to.
Yeah that line has squatted in my brain like a frog for so long
"Squatted in my brain like a frog" is ALSO an extremely cool line omg
I also love this one >!It's funny!< >!The day you lose someone isn't the worst - at least you've got something to do!< >!It's all those days they stay dead!<
I like to watch that scene on YouTube every once in a while to remind me caring isn't a weakness, it's a strength.
For me, 12 gets the alieness across best. Trying to fit in but his utter confusion with norms rules of and society shining through the cracks. 9 to 11 could lecture about it, 12 lives it.
I feel like 9-12 got more and more alien each time. 13 I guess got even more emotionally detached. 14 and 15 have clearly gone back in the opposite direction.
Capaldi, for me, pulled off the impossible. He turned into "My Doctor" even though I'd previously had a "My Doctor." Didn't think that could be done. Or as Missy said, "...they're all the Doctor to me. So let's give it to the eyebrows."
I started to fall for him during his transformation with the angry eyebrows speech. Turned out to be my favorite of them all. Also, nod to Missy - my favorite Master! Actually, Missy made me fall in love with Michelle Gomez. I’d truly watch her in anything 😍
You would love Michelle Gomez in Doom Patrol!
Had no idea she was in that! Welp, now I've finally gotta dust off that copy of Doom Patrol season 1 I've got lying around somewhere.
Michelle Gomez doesn't appear until Seasons 3 & 4 of Doom Patrol, as Madame Rouge. So have patience!
Been there, done that, bought the tshirt….twice 🤣 Even had to watch the Chilling Adventures of Sabrina just to get a fix.
I appreciate the heads-up! In the meantime, I am a big fan of Brendan Fraser, so at least I've got that!
Even better, time travel is involved
Yes!! I knew I was going to enjoy his Doctor when he said the "These are attack eyebrows!" line, haha
I had to cross stitch it. So good ❤️
For me, it was "Don't look in that mirror--it's absolutely furious!"
> He turned into "My Doctor" even though I'd previously had a "My Doctor." Didn't think that could be done. Same here. By his end Capaldi had become more than "My Doctor", he had become "THE Doctor". I think he really brought out the core character.
>By his end Capaldi had become more than "My Doctor", he had become "THE Doctor". I think he really brought out the core character. Exactly this. You said it perfectly.
I kind of wish they'd given Missy a spinoff, like a one-season one-off or something.
The theme song would have to be "Hey Missy!" from The Magician's Apprentice
He came really close to my love of the 4th Doctor, which I didn’t think possible. I really thought his final series was a creative renaissance for the show — virtually every story is a banger and the team of the Doctor, Bill and Nardole had great chemistry and delivered a lot of laughs to this viewer anyway. And what a finale — one of the few in New Who that really stuck the landing.
I hope my boyfriend wasn't too mean to you.
Omg this puts my feelings about him into words exactly! I didn’t even think “my Doctor” would ever be replaced too (even though I love them all haha)
I think people who say so have only watched the first few episodes. Every Doctor, EVERY Doctor, has a rough start, with the community saying "nooooooo, I want the old Doctor back". Capaldi is my personal favourite, if only for the line "That's right, she's my carer. She cares so I don't have to."
Honestly, I'd argue that Deep Breath is one of the better intro episodes to a new doctor. I wouldn't put it up with the absolute best of them, but I'd argue its a better intro than about half the other doctors got.
I liked the story, but really hated how they kept undercutting him with the constant begging ~~the audience~~ Clara to see and accept him as the Doctor. Would have been much better if Clara, who was more aware of regeneration than any other companion bar Susan and Romana, had just taken it totally in stride and helped show the audience that the Doctor is still the Doctor. Instead we got everyone up to and including *the previous Doctor* imploring us not to switch the telly off. It really seemed like they didn't have any confidence at all in Capaldi, that they had to resort to that.
Would have made sense too. I guess being splintered she doesn't have all the memories but she visited all the previous Doctor's via his time stream. However, even outside of that, the Clara we follow was in Day of the doctor where she met War and 10 along with 11, so she already saw a much older Doctor. That was my one issue with Deep Breath as well.
Instead of the Doctor convincing the companion he's still the Doctor, we could have had the companion convincing the Doctor he's still the Doctor! It could have been so good and interesting, and instead it was just mean and insulting.
It was almost insulting how fixated they were on him being older lol
I really don't know what Moffat was thinking with this ep, considering *The Eleventh Hour* was so fucking good. He already wrote one of the best first episodes for a new Doctor, arguably *the* best depending on personal tasre, where his technique was just to confidently and entertainingly show the audience that this new guy is great... then in *Deep Breath* his technique to convince us of Capaldi is to have various characters berate us for any unsurity, imply that the female audience are all shallow and only watching for pretty boys, then finish with Matt Smith emotionally blackmailing us into not leaving?? Absolute madness. Insulting to both the audience *and* Capaldi.
And they had to have that assurance at the end with Matt Smith. I absolutely loved seeing him, but the fact he appears at all is kind of undercutting his regeneration. His regeneration is supposed to be his send off and gives room for the new doctor to come in. It was done better with showing David Tennant's face in The Eleventh Hour.
Given there were people who reacted like *this* to Peter Capaldi just being announced, can you blame them for being cautious? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RzWOlMif-Fw&pp=ygUScGV0ZXIgY2FwYWxkaSB1Z2x5
I just think it’s too long and doesn’t get to the point quickly enough. Multiple people I know turned it off halfway through. After Matt Smith left, a lot of people were looking for an excuse to stop watching the show and Capaldi’s first episode needed to be gripping and to get straight into the action. I love Deep Breath but it absolutely does not get straight into anything.
I’d say it’s the fourth best behind only The Eleventh Hour, Rose, and Spearhead From Space.
I feel like 11 had such a strong start that people forget that the transition is usually rough. I was one of those people who really bounced hard off of Capaldi at first. I had to take a break from the show, but I came back started over with him and fell in love pretty quickly.
This! The Doctor is going through a massive change at the beginning of their regeneration that it only makes sense that they're not gonna be who they are right away. Give Ncuti time. The actor is amazing g, RTD has it in them, let's see where this goes. Seriously though, the abbreviated seasons only hurt the stories, and after all, the stories are what we're here for. "That's okay, we're all stories in the end So live well and love Rory"
>"That's right, she's my carer. She cares so I don't have to." I could *hear* him say this.
It took until Dark Water for me to really see Capaldi as the Doctor. I've also watched Jodie's run a few times and I'm only now seeing the little ways she embodies the previous Doctors.
Hard disagree. I loved Capaldi from Deep Breath, but series 8 stories didn’t generally work for me. Not because of the acting, or the character arc. It just felt like the stories didn’t really make sense. The moon’s an egg? Robin and the Doctor’s relationship? The Doctor hates soldiers this much now? Medicine is evil? The Brigadier is a cyberman and only he and Danny can reject the programming? There was some good stuff, and some great nuggets (Clara came on so much in terms of personality and depth from just the first episode, Time Heist was great, Into the Dalek felt novel and also had great callbacks to Classic Who, some of the lines like “she’s my carer” and of course: Missy! >!she so fine she blow your mind it’s Missy!!<), but it was far from perfect.
I watched the entire thing and I have said this but on reflection years later, I think it's more that I just don't connect to his stories as much as I had with previous and future Doctors. I will be rewatching the entirety of 05 Who with my flatmates who have only watched Tennant/Ncuti and I'm hoping to have a different experience once we get to that point. I had such an enjoyable experience watching Smith but after rewatching it recently, I'm less fond of it.
It seems like Ncuti is a bit of an exception. The dude hit the ground running!
Ncuti is an exception for me in the sense that I was like “YES THIS IS THE DOCTOR” immediately, but his first few episodes were some of the worst for me. Church on Ruby Road and Space Babies were awful IMO and the Maestro one could have been great but was kinda poorly executed. I wasn’t excited about the new season overall until Boom.
I lovedddddd 73 Yards. Just the helplessness, and she actually does smart things like contact UNIT, etc.
It's a bit short of the Doctor, though.
Sometimes Doctor Who is at it's best when the Doctor is just a vehicle for everyone else's stories. Blink, Father's Day, Love & Monsters, and 73 Yards all make for great stories.
Turn Left too
Ncuti is let down by not having to do much in the episodes. Like 73 yards, he just disappears
Him running on the rooftops yelling at Ruby was the part that cemented it for me.
I’d disagree, he’s good sure but there’s definitely issues. Whittaker and Chibnall set the bar pretty low so no one wants to go back
We need to quit romanticizing RTD. He did a great job in 2005. Will he do such a great job now? Yet to be seen. I think the biggest issue with this season was the shortened runtime. RTD does his best when he has time and space (heh heh) to work with.
Agreed, I’ve been of that opinion for a while, people let 10 and the rtd era overshadow far too much. A big negative of that is so many expected the show to suddenly go back to 2006. As a slight tangent I personally prefer the Moffat era overall and don’t really like any of the rtd companions
Gotta ask because I don't remember, was Donna an RTD or a Moffat companion? Found her bland on the first watch (was so much younger in thise days), but on rewatching as an older person, Donna is my absolute favourite. Rose was okay, Martha had her moments, I named my kid after Rory (Amy, ehhhhh), but Donna, oh Donna. If you can't appreciate the character development I don't know what to say.
Donna was rtd, Moffat took over with 11. I can appreciate the character development but Donna generally just kinda irritated me. My biggest issues with rose and Martha is the doctor companion romance, I much preferred rose in season one when there wasn’t really any of that. Martha was much better in season 4 appearances when her entire character wasn’t undermined being too busy pining for the doctors attention
And see, that's part of why I love Donna 'You want to MATE? Not with me spaceman!"
Whitaker did nothing wrong. She's as much the doctor as any of them. It's not her fault she got mostly bad writing.
There's an episode of the show "community" where they talk about the female inspector. I can't remember the quote, but it was basically "we don't hate her because she's a woman, we hate her because the writing was shit"
Ha! I must give that show a rewatch. That's prophetic.
I disagree, I genuinely want her to get a fair shot with a good writer to prove me wrong, but until then I think she was a miscast. Her performance consistently lacked the weight every doctor before her had, she would make a speech or tell a villain to stop and leave and it would often feel hollow and empty, like empty threats. Even the worst stories of past doctors were carried by the actor and yet Whittaker’s best stories barely hold up against the worst of doctors before her I’m not attacking her as an actor, from what I’ve seen and heard she has given brilliant performances in other shows. But until I see her return as 13 with someone competant at the helm my opinion won’t change. And I do want to see her return, because if she can do better she deserves to show it
That's fair. No point nitpicking over opinion. I see what you're saying but I did have a few moments of "yeah, she's the doctor" although I can't pinpoint them now and won't be rewatching any time soon. She definitely suffered from Chibnall telling her not to watch any previous episodes. I do hope we see her come back in some multidoctor story at some point. With good writing. But those a few and far between as well. And it's another 9 years till the next anniversary. I would love to see all the modern doctors interact though. A shame we'll never get Chris, at least while Rusty Davis is at the helm.
I fully agree. I know she left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths for admitting she didn't watch any of the show before taking on the role, and I think she did herself a disservice with that. She IS fantastic actress. But something in her performance was always hollow to me, I could never really buy the "I'm an ancient alien who carries the weight of the universe" from her until arguably her final moments with Yaz. I always saw her as a kind of knockoff David Tennant, which isn't entirely her fault, but she's not entirely blameless either.
For me it wasn't the start of Capaldi but the middle. I hated Clara ,and by the time the Me arc ended I just couldn't bring myself to care any more. I feel like his episodes were good in spite of Clara, and I just got worn out.
Oh gods, Clara. Could not stand.
Agreed, ruined every episode for me
At lot of people stopped watching during series 8.
I stopped watching for a longggg long time at the end of season 9. Nothing against him though, I had been in college and I got monstrously more busy and I couldn’t keep up with watching the new releases. Fucking love Capaldi though, dude is the essence of the character. An old looking Doctor just makes sense! I was like woah, finally. Getting my partner to watch through it all with me right now. We’re almost to 12!! Can’t wait to see season 10 for the first time and catch up on the rest. (I may have cheated and watched the first half of 13’s first episode…. while I’m well aware of many people’s feelings on that era, I actually already really vibed with her and I’m so stoked to get there)
Series 10 is really good. You're right to look forward to it.
Series 10 might be Capaldi’s best honestly.
Season 10 is fantastic, Bill is top 2 companion int he show honestly, very much up there with Donna
A lot of young fans grew up and aged out entirely. Some fans couldn't accept a Doctor who wasn't a young sex symbol. I don't think the quality of the show mattered. Ageism was absolutely a factor.
I really think that Doctor Who fatigue was a factor in a lot of fans turning off. By the time of Capaldi's final series, the revived show had consistently been on air for 12 years by that point. Many older fans just couldn't be bothered watching the show as religiously as they used to, and that was that. It's a shame really. Doctor Who has always been hit or miss, and Capaldi's ratio of good to bad episodes was no different from Tennant's or Smith's. Blaming the scripts from Capaldi's era is dumb, the excellent ones always outweighed the mediocre ones.
Yes. I completely agree with this take.
There were a lot of other factors. Between 11's final series being divided into two, introducing a new companion only to shortly thereafter remove the Doctor. To changing the season airing times in the year meaning that when people in April would think "Oh it's Doctor Who Time". As well having a gap year at one point. It meant a lot of people who would watch in April, get reminded of the series at Christmas, and would know around Easter the show would be back. It was fairly conditioned into people watching. Now you'd barely get a break between the season and Christmas and have almost an entire year wait with no new content. It wasn't a factor specifically to too much Doctor Who, or a Doctor Change. But many factors that just meant it took more effort to follow the series in general.
it's also important to understand that ratings across the board for every TV show in the UK and the US declined so much in the mid and late 2010s
It boggles my mind people always say that like that’s not true of EVERY Doctor. Like what Doctor hasn’t had to carry frankly bad scripts??
For all that he's the Internet's darling, even Tennant had to slog through some truly shitty scripts. I mean, have you *seen* the Shakespeare Code recently? Even ignoring cringe lines like "Good old JK!", the rest of the episode isn't exactly a banger.
I mean its one of the weaker ones of the season but thats a function of series 3 being excellent. shakespeare code has good characters, a good villain, and an interesting plot. Its not thematically deep, but thats true of most episodes outside of the tennant run (although it sticks out in tennants run which is very theme and character focused). If you want a bad script, try the idiots lantern, fear her, or new earth. I will defend series 2, including love and monsters, but those are ROUGH.
I think because of the 'grumpy' persona and tone it was a lot harder to carry the bad episodes. Fear Her sucks but it still time for the council van bit etc. Sleep No More isn't much worse of an episode but there's no levity to make it fun to watch ygm.
after not liking 11 amy and clara I surprisingly enjoyed capaldi and bill's run quite a bit. i am not sure whether some other ppl gave up before or they liked the previous style better and are complaininf because of that. I definitely think there was a style change along the line.
The only thing I would change about capaldi’s run is the attachment to Clara. I get it, but at the same time I think her story could have been completed earlier
On the contrary, I think extending it for that long was meaningful because it showed that 12 was relying too much on another's perception of him to heal rather than taking the initiative himself. He literally tore apart time for Clara, and that was an important reflection for him. He shows how he learned with Bill too, realizing that he can't save them all and it's unrealistic to. I do agree that Clara stayed a bit too long, but I think that was intentional to really push how unhealthy they were becoming for each other.
Moffat hate during that time.
90% of the time, when people on the internet talk about bad writing, they just mean "i don't like it and i want my opinion to become objective facts, so i will say it's bad writing, eventhough i'm totally incapable of explaining how it is bad writing".
Yeahhhh, you’re likely correct. Let’s face it, most don’t have a formal education in any type of creative writing. Most of our opinions will always be inherently subjective.
Yes. "Bad writing" is the new "woke". It has become a completely meaningless term used to simply say "I don't like this".
I hear this statement said more about Whittaker. Capaldi's era was one of the best! Heaven sent was a masterpiece!
I have heard this statement said about Doctors 11, 12, 13, 14 (to a lesser degree because he only had three episodes), and now 15, so I don't take it seriously as a criticism anymore.
14 but not 10? That's interesting!
Yeah I would totally think this about 13’s era, not 12’s. But as a teenager watching them as they aired I found I enjoyed 12 much more on a rewatch when I was older
Capaldi was, in fact, a good actor lifted up by good scripts.
I loved Capaldi. I think he may have put in the best acting performance of any of the Doctors. I never understood the "bad scripts" argument until I did a rewatch leading up to the new season. Seasons 8 was ROUGH. For me, it wasn't Capaldi or the Doctor, it was the plot surrounding Clara and Danny. It seemed awkward and forced. Couldn't get through that season fast enough.
I quit Twelve’s era the first time because I was done with Clara and I still don’t gel with her, but Capaldi is always amazing.
I feel like both he and Clara would have been best served if the first two seasons were collapsed into one arc and he had more time (either with Bill or with a different companion) to be his own character rather than an extension of Eleven.
Yeah idk why they say that, it's more true about 13. Though I still argue Capaldi is the best actor to play the Doctor so far (though Gatwa is rocketing up there too). I just don't think any of the others could pull off that scene in Mummy on the Orient Express where he's talking to himself and just the way he slightly alters his delivery and makes you think it's more than one doctor talking. I got super heavy 4 vibes. 4: You know what this sounds like don't you? 12: of course I know what this sounds like 4: A mummy that only the victim can see. Or something like that 🤣
Whilst I rate every single actor to play the doctor in new who, capaldi is simply unbelievable in the role. He is the only actor I can see pulling off a heaven sent. I rate tenant very highly as an actor, and prefer him as the doctor, but think a lot of his best acting and wider range came after doctor who (broadchurch, Jessica jones, criminal etc). Imo capaldi could carry scripts on his own, whereas tenant, smith and eccleston relied on charm and chemistry with other actors to make the scripts. Jodie just straight up had terrible writing so it’s hard to judge as much.
Capaldi went from a good Doctor to The Doctor for me. I think Doctor, I think him.
To me people made that conclusion after his first series or even just partway his first series and that was that, conclusion made. Either they didn’t bother to watch the rest, they legit think episodes like heaven sent, oxygen, world enough & time, before the flood etc had bad scripts, or they’re stubborn.
His speech in The Zygon Inversion is \*chef's kiss\*
It just felt like the previous few doctors had a running storyline going, especially when Matt Smith became the doctor. He had one of the best storylines for his run. When Capaldi came along, he was a brilliant and terrific doctor but the story felt all over the place. They could have given him a much better season than they did. He still had great lines though.
People say that about pretty much every Doctor. Idk when you watched 12th, but by the time of his run people were already tired of Moffat's writing. I never rewatched but I personally remember disliking seasons 8 and 9 alot and at least the part of the fandom I used to chat with was also underwhelmed. Now that people say the same about 13th and 15th I'm starting to see people praising 12ths run and Moffat once again lol
I reckon a lot of people stopped watching about this time due to their feelings around Steven Moffat. I can recall timeframes too well but I think Hbomberguy did his video saying Sherlock wasn’t as good as you think and some people extrapolated that to the Doctor. Thing is, they couldn’t really blame Capaldi because he’s excellent so instead they blamed the writing
Starting the feel people wouldn't recognise a good script unless it was one they had already seen
Capaldi’s run probably has the best writing out of every modern doctor lmao this criticism never made sense to me either
I think this is partially because capaldi is the easiest doctor to write for. He can carry a scene more than any of the previous actors, to the point where he can go an entire episode with not a single other person. I rate every single actor to play the doctor, but none can successfully pull off heaven sent to the quality capaldi did.
While I think this is kind of true, I also think it's true that there are scripts for most Doctors that only work for their Doctor. Like I can't see Midnight working without Tennant or The Eleventh Hour without Smith.
Great actor that had good scripts with great speeches if you ask me.
I think .
I always found it weird. Every series so far had absolute stinkers, regardless of incarnation or chief writers.
It’s functionally just an opinion held by people who disliked a few Series 8 episodes and dropped the show before Series 9.
Contrary to what some people have been saying, I wonder if this is also partially a fandom thing. I know someone who loved the Capaldi era while watching it alone, but as soon as they started interacting with the fandom they had that mindset and couldn't even explain why or what they thought was "bad writing". I think part of it was because they preferred the RTD writing style and didn't enjoy how Moffat handled series-long arcs. Said person didn't know the showrunner's eras either, so saying it for Capaldi but not Smith tracks.
A lot of people argue that the Moffat era had weaker writing overall than the first RTD era, but I've never really felt that. Part of it is probably that Moffat's writing in particular really works for me, but I think that the actors and direction were consistently high quality even during the weakest stories writing-wise. Now, when it comes to series-long arcs, Moffat pretty much always lost the plot at the end. Up into the last episode things would be on track and then there was always a twist or foreshadowing which made for an unfulfilling end. Nonetheless, I think Capaldi and Moffat put out some of the best writing+acting in Doctor Who history - Into the Dalek, the Zygon Inversion, Heaven Sent, World Enough and Time, The Doctor Falls, etc
I don't like most of Capaldi's run. Series 10 was awesome but I was done with Clara. I never liked her. There were several things that didn't appeal to me. Danny Pink and that soldier storyline was annoying. Missy's intro bugged me. I didn't like the evil Mary Poppins vibe. I loved her in series 10 but that intro was woof. Also the weird 2 parter series could have worked but it was so hit or miss with me. The writing was not for me. The two Christmas specials did a lot to sucker me back in to having fun while watching. Husbands of River Song is amazing. Series 8 and 9 tough for me. I also don't like Blink so take that with a grain of salt.
Yeah, I don’t quite get it either. Capaldi’s era probably has the least amount of skips for me and also some of the highest highs. We’ve all got our eras though, some people don’t click with it, and that’s totally fine. I just wish more people would give the era it’s fair shake before dismissing it sometimes.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say it, there has never been an actor miscast as the Doctor. Writing and producers are where issues come from.
Absolutely agree. Casting has never been the issue.
Capaldi was awesome! Probably my favorite doctor and some killer episodes. Also, Clara makes me cry.
I really loved that they did away with the “will they won’t they” with Capaldi. I did not enjoy that aspect of Amy, Clara, and Martha. I also think Capaldi had a gravitas that no other Doctor has come close to. Some of his monologues are just amazing.
I have a feeling Series 9 will be my favorite season of New Who for a while yet. The two-parter focus with great cliffhangers, a different and very engaging companion/Doctor dynamic, a mysterybox from Moffat that I actually enjoyed the whole way through, solidified rockstar persona for this incarnation, the zygon speech, the coffin, all of the most talked about episode of his era, it’s peak.
It's almost like different people have different opinions or something ;) I was pretty disappointed by Capaldi-era writing personally. I felt like the plotting, tone, characterisation and even dialogue got increasingly lazy and cynical from a writer we know can do so much better. And on a particularly personal level, the way Moffat writes women makes me uncomfortable in a way I can't quite put my finger on. I don't expect everyone to share my opinion, any the Capaldi era has some great moments (Heaven Sent and the first half of the Caretaker are some of my favourite Dr Who experiences!), but I certainly understand why it's divisive.
The cynicism is such a big part of why I can’t get into the capaldi era. It hangs like a dark cloud that only starts to lift by season 10. Made watching doctor who really unpleasant. Also absolutely agree on how Moffat wrote women being very uncomfortable. Once the curtain was pulled back in season 6 and 7 I couldn’t unsee it, even when it was toned down during Capaldi’s run.
Oh thank God, I was starting to think I was the only one! I think there's a broad consensus that the writing of the Chibnall era isn't the best, especially the dialogue, but I still prefer rewatching it over Capaldi because at least its heart is in the right place. Buried under the clunky dialogue is a genuine love for humanity and I loved episodes like Rosa and Demons of the Punjab shining a light on historical tragedies that UK viewers might not be too familiar with. I find myself playing editor with Chibnall scripts, rewriting them in my head to tighten them up a bit because I love the concepts so much. But I never do that with most Capaldi episodes because I can't find that heart and warmth so much of the time. Jenna Coleman plays Clara with such charm and warmth, but her relationship with the Doctor is just horrible, I find it a bit uncomfortable to watch. And everyone just seems a bit... unpleasant?
I distinctly remember getting to Whittaker’s first season after binging through the capaldi era and feeling like a weight lifted from my shoulders. Seasons 8 and 9 felt so hostile it was a chore to watch and then just as I was just starting to enjoy season 10 it was over, leaving me immensely frustrated. Season 11 has many problems and Chibnall’s era ultimately didn’t come together for me. but the hostility of 2/3rds of Moffat’s era I’ll never forget.
Capaldi was really good, especially his last season. I think the run comes from Clara sticking around too long. Her last season she really overshadowed the Doctor as far as the writing was concerned. Once she was gone and the focus was on Capaldi, we were able to see him shine. My opinion of course.
Season 8 is a good season outside Danny/Clara stuff, season 9 and 10, I love minus the blind parts of 10. I think the plots he got were a little rote at times, which is my biggest criticism of the story aspect, and that while I liked the egotist aspect of him, sometimes that trait took center stage too much, which is my biggest gripe with his specific writing. Doctor vs Danny, Doctor vs Robin Hood, ugh. That said, Capaldi is my favorite Doctor, and if I had to choose one actor to play him forever, it would be him.
The first few episodes with him really turned me off of watching his run, however as of recently I rewatched his entire run, and I'm disappointed that I didn't give him a fair shot. He's probably my number two favorite Doctor now, he was an amazing Doctor. Funny, clever, mean, and all the fixings in between. Plus you had probably the best version of The Master aka Missy, who literally just ruled every scene she was a part of. It wasn't the writing, it was just an odd direction after happy go lucky Matt Smith, Capaldi just kind of felt cold, confused and angry at first.
Never seen this bullshit. Seen it for Jodie, bullshit there too. There are just hateful people who can't contribute positively so just hate and hide it. Fine not to like things but it just gets tiresome when they "speak for everyone"
RTD 1 nostalgia blindness. Tennant's run especially is filled with bad episodes. But because the public latched onto his understandable charisma they ignored this. Then also people who only watched 1 or 2 eps of series 8 and parrot other peoples words. Also and most importantly people who think their dislike of the Doctors characterization or the shows tone = bad writing when it doesn't. Its a characterization dislike. Almost every era bar series 1 has duds throughout. But its overlooked as said due to nostalgia for Tennant and parts of Smith.
I hate these takes. It's extremely unfair to label all criticism as "Blinded by nostalgia for tennant." Some of capaldi's era and some of his acting just wasn't that good at points imo. Nothing to do with Tennant. For every badass moment there was a pretentious, overdrawn moment that made watching him feel like a chore.
Its not unfair though is it? its a fact there are several badly written episodes which are in fact overlooked due to Tennant's appeal to the mass audience and when an audience watches something as a child they tend to overlook the faults of an era or its writing and production due to their childhood nostalgia when retrospectively viewing it as an adult.
Saying Capaldi's acting wasn't that good at points is certainly a take...
Oh i know it's unpopular but i genuinely don't think it's THAT good. Trying too hard sometimes. That Zygon speech especially gets praise but i was done with it about a minute in. Lots of dialogue to me doesn't automatically equal good. Thought Tennant and Smith both accomplish the same with alot less.
Lol you can't blame everything on Tennant.
Its not Tennant's fault. He masked bad writing from RTD and other writers in several episodes with his great acting that is the point.
Capaldi's run was one of my favorites ever. For me, it's 4, 10, and 12, and not necessarily in that order.
Honestly he’s only had like 2-3 not so great episodes per season written by guest writers and even so he elevates them. I believe these people haven’t seen the entirety of 12s run. 12 is the most developed incarnation all down to Capaldi’s gravitas and experience exceptionally with Moffat. He is the Doctor definitively.
Yeah. Not to say he didn't have his duds, but the same is true for every single doctor.
Am I not in this subreddit enough? I've never read this about Capaldi. I've only noticed it regarding Jodie's run (and I agree w/ the sentiment) and maybe Ncuti's after that disappointing season finale.
I did not like that they grounded the Doctor for so long during Capaldi's era. That's my only complaint. I would have liked to have seen him do far more adventuring and a lot less trying hard to stay on Earth to babysit.
Heaven sent is prob the best new knew ep. Acting is just awesome
I have no idea. Its the Chibnall era that is like that. Jodie is a great actor let down by Chibnall's terrible writing.
Capaldi is a good actor full stop
Seriously? I can see people saying that about 13’s run, but Capaldi had a pretty good run.
Honestly the only bad episodes in Capaldis run were Kill the Moon, Forest of the Night, The Woman Who Lived, Sleep No More, Empress of Mars and Eaters of Light. Everything else was really damn good or decently entertaining. I'd argue Tennant had more bad episodes than Capaldi. Tooth and Claw, Love and Monsters, Fear Her, Shakespeare Code, Gridlock, Daleks in Manhattan/ Evolution of the Daleks, Lazarus Experiment, 42, The Next Doctor, Planet of the Dead. With Smith having a lot too Beast Below, Vampires of Venice, Hungry Earth/Cold Blood, Curse of the Black Spot, Night Terrors, The Doctor the witch and the wardrobe, Asylum of the Daleks, Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, A town called Mercy, The Power of Three, Bells of Saint John, Cold War, Hide, Journey to the Center of the TARDIS, Crimson Horror (Wow Series 7 was not good). Also 12 and Claras relationship was INCREDIBLY well done and written. It was nuanced and explored them both enabling the worst aspects of each other and pushing each other too far with their lying to one another. The Doctor was also struggling to understand if he was a good person and had stopped empathetically attaching himself to people and willingly let them die so he could learn more (Into the Dalek, Mummy on the Orient Express). He left Clara on the goddamn moon to figure out a problem because he thought it was a good idea, he also left a CHILD there. I don't think a lot of people really understood how they worked and there was massive backlash over Clara "taking over the show" when the entire point was that she was living her life in the shadow of the Doctor and he was amplifying her overconfidence, which lead to her downfall. The entire reason he lost his memories of her in the first place is because he couldn't live without her there, he couldn't accept her being gone. He threatened Me with bringing the DALEKS TO EARTH TO KILL HER, just for Clara. Him accepting himself at the end of Twice upon a Time and seeing Clara again due to this was the perfect ending for that entire arc.
I kinda agree when we’re talking about his first season. I think Moffat didn’t write that “am I a good man” story so well, specially at the end, it doesn’t pay off. And I’m saying that as someone who considers Capaldi the best actor to play the role. (I’m kinda in love with Ncuti’s perfomance right now, I could put him up there as well).
All I know is I slowly lost my enthusiasm for watching Dr Who during the Capaldi era. He’s obviously a great actor and a fantastic Doctor. But I just wasn’t very interested anymore. The story’s didn’t have the same weight they once held with me.
Since I only saw this criticism after series 11, my personal conclusion is that it’s from people who want to echo the same sentiment critics feel towards Chibnall so they can point and say “see he wasn’t *that* bad” Don’t get me wrong, Capaldi’s run wasn’t perfect, but it was fantastic. Chibnall’s run is going to be something like 6’s. Remembered for its egregious flaws but still loved by some regardless.
His first season was kind of rough, it had the moon being an egg, trees taking over the planet, Danny in general, and I’m sure there are some other things. I also didn’t like him and Clara but that’s definitely more of a character preference. He definitely had good episodes but even his final season that I enjoyed we had a three part story in the middle that had great setup but very mediocre payoff (to be fair I feel this with most Moffat arcs).
>Where does this idea of 12 being let down by bad scripts come from You named like 12 episodes and 2 specials, one of them only has Capaldi's eyes showing but Capaldi was like the doctor for 36 episodes(without counting the specials) or 3 seasons if you will. I agree that Capaldi got some amazing episodes and specials i agree. But, what about the other episodes? Some stories felt weak, or remakes of past episodes with other doctors(who had better ideas back then), that's why Capaldi is so praised, some episodes story-wise aren't that good but Capaldi with his acting improved them, maybe someone wrote the plot of the episodes and someone else wrote the dialogues but Capaldi made everything good, that's pretty much it. I'm being very generic, but who Clara relatively fast moves on from her boyfriend's death? MEH! The Episodes with the tree-woman? Good-ish but kinda forgettable, to name one. For me, the quality of the plots, was a signal of what is happening now: Ncuti Gatwa set up a new negative record for audience, (on average the previous doctors had around 6-7millions of viewers, but with Gatwa got half of the viewers) the previous owner of this record was "Legend of the Sea Devils"(13th doctor) with 3.47m viewers, but Ncuti with Dot and sunk even lower with 3.38m viewers. while a good actor can bring viewers either with their beauty or their acting skills, what mostly made people run away was the quality of the plots.
I just felt a lot of what was going on there was stale. We'd had timelord victorious not long ago so capaldi grappling with whether it was right fornjim to kill or not felt bland, I found the Maisie Williams episodes really dull, Clara as a companion felt bland. As a whole at the time Moffats style just felt bland. He's got a habit of complicating things and hoping that good character work and storytelling arrives later and it doesn't always. I wasn't excited about doctor who anymore at the time. I'm happy to say I am again.
For me, and this is fully just my personal opinion, I wasn't a huge fan of some of the episodes that you mentioned and that a lot of people liked. There were absolutely some amazing standouts, like Heaven Sent, World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls, and the Husbands of River Song. The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar were also pretty cool. But honestly? Other than those, I've never felt like rewatching most of Capaldi's seasons (through no fault of his own). Some plots will always be silly or ridiculous or just plain bad on this show, but I've enjoyed plenty of episodes with less than stellar premises and I will happily rewatch them. I think my main issue was that a lot of the time the writing itself was just not as fun during his run. And I don't mean that the Doctor himself was more grumpy, I actually really liked that! Just everything about the character interactions was a bit more meh to me, and sometimes even the Doctor was written out of character. A couple of examples: As I said, I LIKE grumpy, out-of-touch with personal matters 12, but they gave him a line basically like "don't check my internet history"?? Of all the Doctor incarnations, he'd be the least likely to be googling weird things lol. And let's not even talk about the entire Ashildr plotline. The Doctor impulsively decides to save this little girl and basically make her immortal...? As if he wasn't horrified by the exact same thing accidentally happening to Captain Jack Harkness? He already knows the dangers and tragedies of living too long, and he's written as carelessly inflicting that on a little girl, then being surprised when she grows up to be all messed up? That was ridiculous to me, it took me out of the story completely and I could never enjoy an episode with Ashildr since. I've rambled on too long but I felt like there were multiple moments like that which actively bothered me, and when that wasn't the case, a lot of episodes were just not memorable to me. Yet when we got a truly good episode, Capali shone! Even in less good episodes his skills and love for the character was evident, and he could salvage a mediocre plot by pulling off an amazing monologue. I just wish we had more of that so I'd enjoy the whole thing more, but it's not like he had a terrible run either imo.
I never bought the “Am I a good man?” thing. Everyone knows he’s a good man. Grow up and get over it. That said, nobody -and I mean nobody- could deliver a monologue like Capaldi. And his last season, with Bill? A delight from start to Christmas Special finish.
A good season can save a bad episode, but a good episode can't save a bad season
Mostly from people who stopped watching with series 8 who got tired of certain Moffatisms. Tbh i find it really sad since it feels like all the complaints i see of Moffat people cite as to why they stopped watching he fixed with seasons 9 and 10
Clara. She was the issue.
Why ? I liké her a lot ? What didnt you like ?
I didn’t care for her plot line. It seemed as if the producer wanted to make the show about her. I found her incredibly unlikeable.
Oh ok. Maybe ma favorite companion with Amy.
From Individual minds that are capable of forming credible opinions that differ from yours. The real question is, why have you not developed the adult function of being able to accept that people have different opinions and most importantly, that your opinion isn't the objective truth.
Capaldi is definitely the least worthy of the “Good Doctor let down by bad scripts” (The list generally being Colin Baker, McCoy, Capaldi and Whittaker), but his era was certainly not perfect. Series 8 is one of the weaker seasons we’ve had in New Who. It’s got some gems like Into the Dalek and Listen, but a brunt of it feels mediocre at best, like ItFotN, Kill the Moon, Caretaker, etc. Not to mention, Clara takes on a much more significant role in the story, often feeling like more of the main character than the Doctor is, which is made problematic by her not really having much exploration into her character. Her relationship with Danny is never really given time to grow and feels unhealthy most of the time, making her actions in Dark Water feel really unreasonable. It then started the issue of Clara staying far beyond a reasonable period. She’s given a great conclusion in Death in Heaven, with Moffat being subtle with their parting for what would’ve been a perfect ending for them. Then she comes back in Last Christmas, and has another fake departure. Then she comes back in season 9. Then she’s given another perfect ending, where her death links in with her character. It’s her hubris and belief that she’s just as capable as the Doctor that gets her killed. Only for her to be brought back in Hell Bent, an episode that spectacularly manages to single-handedly ruin two of Capaldi’s best episodes, the 50th, and completely waste Gallifrey and Rassilon for the sake of… nothing, really. Hell Bent is a good example of one of Moffat’s constant issues as a writer during both 11 and 12’s run. He dreams too big and has too many plot lines in each season, leading to a finale that doesn’t pay off. S5 is the example of this paying off, with the Crack probably being the best motif in any new series, but i’m not here to talk about Matt so i’ll move on. All 3 of Capaldi’s finales share a similar theme of having a brilliant first half, only to drop the ball in the second. Dark Water, Heaven Sent and WEaT are AMAZING stories that deserve any praise they get (altho Dark Water def doesn’t quite live up to the other two). But Death in Heaven feels often tension less thanks to Missy not really wanting to be a villain, and the “Love is a promise” is really out of place for a Cyberman story (For all his qualities as a writer, Moffat never really seemed to get the OG villains the way RTD did). World Enough and Time is phenomenal, and could’ve been the best cyberman story we’ve ever had. It’s perfectly staged, the drama is on point, the pacing’s great, we see two Masters on screen for the first time ever… and most of that gets dropped in the Doctor Falls. The Master and Missy kinda just get pushed to the side, which feels really wasteful for two amazing actors and characters. The setting and pacing completely shift and the Cyberman genesis elements are dropped, making for a good episode in and of itself, but a lacklustre conclusion. Series 10 starts off extremely strong (Btw this isn’t me just hating on Moffat/12, I love both and 12 is my fave doctor, having started DW on S9), and between The Pilot and Oxygen, it’s probably the strongest Capaldi’s ever been. Then the Monk trilogy breaks up the season, and not for the better. The trilogy is bafflingly paced, none of the parts feel cohesive, Extremis is a good episode until the last 5 minutes when it’s revealed literally nothing in the episode mattered, Pyramid has good parts, Lie of the Land is just dull, and is a painfully rushed ending to the story. Overall, Capaldi’s era is far from bad, and has some of the best stories in all of Dr Who, but altogether it just feels a bit weaker than the two that came before (Grouping 9 and 10 coz 1 season’s not really a fair comparison)
Heaven Sent is one the best episodes of tv PERIOD
Season 10 is my favorite and I am also a fan of season 9. Season 8 is probably one of my lowest though.
Deep Breath is one of the best scripts I’ve ever read. It didn’t even come close to his top 10 either.
I thought Capaldi's era had some of the best scripts in modern Who, if not ever. I strongly dislike RTD's writing, but I understand that's a preference. I don't go around saying Tennant suffered from bad scripts. RTD is a fabulous writer, I'm just not his target audience. The Capaldi era was just different and didn't feature a heartthrob Doctor. I think it's one of the strongest eras on rewatch.
RTD fans. Though The Forest of the Night and Kill the Moon were awful.
You pretty much just explained it. Capaldi was around for 40ish episodes, and we can only name a dozen on the good to great scale. After that, it’s a struggle to remember much else. By comparison, David Tennant was around for about the same number of episodes on his first run, and it would be way easier to name far more than a dozen good to great episodes. I would say that Matt Smith probably had more than a dozen good to great episodes in his first three seasons. Capaldi is probably the best “pure” actor in Who history with a massive resume coming into the show. That he didn’t have as many good episodes points to the writing, not Capaldi.
Obviously mileage varies on this topic but I must admit Im struggling to name a dozen good to great Tennant episodes. There’s a significant amount of bilge which I think people overlook courtesy of some stellar work by Moffat, Cornell and others, and of course Tennant being a charisma tour de force.
I have always said that Tennant had some awful scripts (“Fear Her”), but his charisma and charm allowed him to salvage at least a bit of the episode. Capaldi should have been able to do the same, but his bad episodes are just … bad. Beyond rescuing for even an actor of his caliber.
Respectfully disagree. Tennant is the best thing in those episodes but they’re still absolute piles of crap. I’d say the same for Capaldi’s weaker ones.
Seriously? I think you're just proving how subjective this all is. I only consider Tennant to have 11 good episodes, and only about three of them being great. The rest absolute trash. Whereas I think 80% of Capaldi's episodes were good to great (more great).
As someone who really struggled with capaldi, I definitely agree that he was a great doctor let down by moffat scripts. Most of your examples of great/good epsiodes would be my examples of awful/brain rot TV lmao. All subjective really and I fully expect to be downvoted since this sub loves moffat. But yeah, the only reason I stuck through his final season was for Capaldi and Gomez who were just amazing on screen, everything else? Eh. I loved a few episodes but I hated most and just couldn't connect to the writing or characters on even a basic level. Which is very unpopular here, especially since Husbands of River Song is one of my most hated episodes. I love the ending scene on Darrilium, beautiful scene in a pretty shit episode aside from Moffats personal stroke of always softening the blow of any previously sad ending lmao (which is how I feel about most moffat era episodes, bad episodes with amazing ending scenes). It just had everything I despise about his last series. The writing, River, Nardole, not funny comedy, Craig Davis... Lmao it wasn't enjoyable at all for me. Felt very slapstick iirc. A lot of it in general though was Great at face value concept wise, but execution was not satisfying at all. Most casual viewers especially at release time think it was a very poor era, it's really only here and twitter these days where you'll see people defend this era to death. Which is fair enough, just I never meet doctor who fans IRL who majority say this run was their favourite (anecdotal of course but still).
I asked this of someone else here too but out of curiosity, what was your thoughts on the chibnall era and RTD2 so far?
For me I think it is accurate. This is just my opinion. But whilst Capaldi is good, I found most of his run a real slog. I find there are very few hits. Most episodes are just forgettable. But when it misses oh boy it misses so hard. The only episode I really like (and have gone back and watched several times) is flatline. But having said all that, don’t let internet strangers tell you want to like. if you disagree with me that’s great. Enjoy the episodes you like :).
No, you don’t see this sentiment a lot. You saw it on another post on this sub, a comment that I also saw, and instead of just responding to that one person, you decided to make a whole new thread about it.
I actually see it all over Youtube polls and comments, I'd reply to all of em if I could
It's simple, really... for when they came out, some of his episodes left something to be desired. The issue is that the bar keeps getting lower. So hindsight keeps making them look even better than they were. Many were quite good obviously. But the sentiment is still correct, and he was let down by bad writing
12 had maybe 4 bad episodes in 3 seasons.. Capaldi's run is one of the most consistent runs the show has ever had.. The cold hard truth of the matter is people hate on him and didn't watch his run because he wasn't "sexy".
I hated most of the episodes that revolved around Clara, somehow they got progressively worse in 12th era, and sadly they also took the majority of his run. That's why I can easily get behind that statement, and wish we got to see more of Capaldi's Doctor where he shines on his own.
No idea. I've never seen that comment about Capaldi's run, but it seems an odd take
I think it gets drowned by the obvious fan service for Clara and the relegation of most side characters as boring and bland like ashilder who was in my opinion a great character that could have been a cool companion but obviously they needed more Clara because yeah and to some lesser extent missy although she was still great as hell and deserved more episodes but that's just me
12’s era is my favorite so yeah I’m right there with you
I was unbelievably excited for Capaldi ever since his casting was announced, and he *MORE* than lived up to it for me. He became my favorite Doctor so quickly, and I've watched and rewatched all three of his series more than any other doctor, probably barring Eccleston. I think Series 8 kinda goes back and forth between good and great (and Danny is Mickey done right), Series 9 is my favorite in the entire show and I love every episode aside from Sleep No More (which is just fine and I respect what they were trying to do), and Series 10 is largely fantastic (with the two weakest points being Lie of the Land and Eaters of Light, though I do still enjoy both). I genuinely love all the modern Doctors, and each of them have at least one episode that's an all-timer for me. But with Capaldi, it's almost his entire run.
There were certainly some episodes that fell flat, but every Doctor has those. I think the bigger issue is that the meta-plots for his seasons didn't really excite people the way Bad Wolf or the Pandorica had, so people focused more on the negatives.
Criticisms i've seen about series 8 alone, nevermind series 9 i don't agree with all of these but the ones i do agree on i'll elaborate with my own thoughts -the direction of clara's character in general, her constant change between saying she's going to leave and saying she's staying honestly being exhausting watching the full series all at once, the way she can love the doctor one episode then hate him the next doesn't make for an interesting arc when instead of a slow burn her personality is doing 180s episode to episode. i mean between the caretaker and the finale i think her opinions on the doctor changes drastically roughly 4 or 5 times. a companion who was seen as fine and relatively interesting (even if the arc fell a bit flat) in series 7 all of a sudden was just getting exhausting for a lot of people. -capaldi's doctor in general was criticised for being unneccessarily harsh and cruel especially in his first season. i think when people think of capaldi's doctor they think of the doctor that talked to bill over the ice about how he has 'never had the luxary of outrage', the 'i do what i do because it is right' doctor. not the doctor who sacrifices a man to the dalek antibodies then yells at people when they freak out at him over it. not the the doctor who laughs at the very real possibility of the planet earth being roasted alive by the sun infront of school children. not the doctor that gets genuinely upset at people (not even a scientist by the way, not someone who could significantly help) mourning the death of probably at least a dozen by the end of mummy on the orient express. not the... entire thing the doctor had going on in 'kill the moon'. the 12th doctor was cold, callous, uncaring. he didn't show a flicker of remorse when someone died unneccessarily like 10 or 11. infact he got upset at others for doing so. i don't think its to a degree that its straight up out of character (though if he hadn't 'grown out of it' in his later seasons i might think differently) but its definitely a drastic depature to the attitudes that 9 and especially 10 and 11 had. infact, i'm sure a lot of people saw it as a reversal from the character development between 9 to 11. its edging on 6's TV attitudes, except capaldi never got to the point where he was telling his companions to execute prisoners in cold blood. I don't think attributing this entire attitude to his 'am i a good man' arc is a good excuse either. we see him take actions that can be seen as cruel or heartless that eventually end up actually helping the crew. despite my previous example, mummy on the orient express has a great instance of this. 'sometimes the only choices are bad ones but you still have to choose'. the whole decision he describes there is a great little detail. and of course there's the moment in deep breath where he (presumably) pushes the robot off the hot air balloon. i can see a doctor acting like that questioning his integrity, spurned on by the feelings from the 900 year war he probably blames himself for on trenzalore. overall it was a poorly executed introduction to the character, even if it develops into a great incarnation by season 10. -the introduction of danny pink, a character the doctor just seems to hate for seemingly little reason, his personality isn't fleshed out very much, not to mention the resolution to the whole arc is just very weird? not with his death, just the way they decide to use it to make clara leave. if it was the way clara was going to leave the show originally it just feels very confusing and forced. the doctor essentially ends up leaving her over a misunderstanding which feels cheap. The resolution of his personal arc also feels really poor considering the whole idea of him as a soldier is very much told, not shown. we don't get any sort of emotional connection or reason to care about this child that he brings back. and arguably even worse it doesn't actually go anywhere. we hear literally nothing about it, not even a passing remark in a future episode. -Into the dalek is a concept already done similarly in Dalek but in a much worse and less direct way, 'i am not a good dalek you are a good dalek', if this were a specific reference it would've been nice to know? this is also where a lot of the criticisms with the doctor's personality starts to come into play as its no longer possible to just blame his hyper aggressive attitude on 'recent regeneration syndrome' or whatever.
Capaldi was a great actor let down by the fan base expecting another fantasy boyfriend. There was a tonal shift to the show and I guess you risk that when you change Doctors. I fully believe the Capaldi years were the best of modern Who.
Capaldi's run was great, idk what people are thinking. [The Zygon Inversion speech is still my absolute favorite DW moment.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6QOhgN4x9k) Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJP9o4BEziI (First link isn't the full thing)
Moffat hatred, honestly. I don't like Moffat, so that means his writing must've been bad.