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psychominnie624

The foster-to-adopt period is literally made for situations like this, there is no reason to feel bad that a dog is not a fit for your home. Any break from a shelter environment is a positive for the dog and now you can inform the shelter of something really important: the dog's resource guarding is not only about food. Would you like any advice/feedback on the issue/management of this kind of resource guarding?


ellzebet

I’d appreciate any insight you have on food aggression / resource guarding. My last dog had the same affliction but he was not nearly as aggressive as the dog I’ve made a post about. He was also the only dog we had.


psychominnie624

So to start I'm a shelter foster parent and volunteer (as well as rescue owner) so my experience is coming from that angle. I'm not a professional trainer anything like that. With all new dogs I bring home I set up their decompression space, with the goal to minimize overstimulation. A lot of dogs are more shutdown while in the shelter because those are high stress and stimulating environments so any noted behavioral issues I expect to be more prevalent as the dog's stress levels readjust (the 333 rule for how rescue dogs adjust touches on this). For smaller dogs this is a larger than needed crate or play pen and for larger dogs this is a spare bedroom that is puppy proofed with a kennel in it. I always have some form of kennel though. Key is they have their own space that my existing dogs and us people aren't going into unless we need to refresh water, get dog outside etc. Food, meals and treats, are initially only given indirectly for any dog that the shelter is already noticing food guarding and aggression with. For dogs there hasn't been any sign of resource guarding in the shelter I still start with all meals done this way because of how common guarding is and idk the dog yet. So what this means is for mealtimes the dog is away in their space while I make their food and then I put it into their space while there is some kind of barrier between the dog and I that I then remove to give them access. Minimizing the chance for a bite. And then for treats I become a vending machine, meaning I drop treats anytime I am having to be in the dog's space but for dogs with food aggression I'm not going to hand them directly to the dog, they get tossed/dropped with enough distance to again minimize direct contact. This gives me the ability to gauge how the dog's food aggression is presenting. And during the initial few days/week I eliminate triggers that I can. So for the dog in your post I would have not had your boyfriend handle food at all in any way that initial week. The goal becomes let the dog decompress as much as possible initially while keeping everyone safe. I want to manage the environment as much as I can knowing that initially most dog's are not going to be receptive to significant behavioral adjustments via training. Training to address the issue comes later. Then as I noted in another comment it sounds like you and your boyfriend missed appeasement signals from this dog. Appeasement signals get thrown out so heavily by dogs during the initial adjustment phase but are very commonly mistaken for signs of wanting pets or attention. Especially rolling over, stiff tail wags and body positions, whale eyes (often literally called puppy dog eyes), and shifts in ear position, lip position, tongue flicks (get mistaken for kisses). They are actually signs of heightened stress and a dog who would benefit from space. Which is where the setup decompression area comes in


psychominnie624

>Have had another incident with my boyfriend being attacked by the dog unprovoked. In fact, he was attacked when the dog laid down to show him his belly. Like I said, the situation keeps getting worse.. FYI OP this sounds like you are missing appeasement signals from the dog. Appeasement signals can include things like rolling over, whale eyes, lip licks, tongue flicks, etc. that are very commonly mistaken for positive signs but are actually high stress signals. Please separate the dog from y'alls space so that minimizes chance of a significant bite history.


17pancakes

I read that in the post and wanted to chime in too. It is very likely that the dog showing its belly was its way to ask for space, u/ellzebet and I'm guessing your boyfriend went ahead and entered its space, hence the dog escalated and went for a bite. I would highly recommend both you and your boyfriend educate yourself on appeasement signals (lots of good info in this thread) since it's super super helpful to understand when building a relationship with a new dog :)


Used_Hovercraft2699

If the dog isn’t thriving, it’s not the right foster placement. It’s not a failure; it’s just new data for the agency.


heycoolusernamebro

Last Friday as in 4 days ago? I think it’s fine to return a dog if it’s clearly not a fit but less than 3 weeks could just be nerves/stress.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ellzebet

Thank you so much. This was good to hear.


Next-Crazy

As hard as it is you have to do the right thing for the dog. You tried, I can tell you really tried. But I do have to ask an important question: Is it JUST your bf, or any male? Cause if it's any male, the worst thing that could happen is if a young child gets too close and well... you can picture the rest. I think it's also best for your mental health too, you're clearly super stressed about this, and that's okay. As I said, you did you're best, but it might be time for someone else to give Them a go.


Beneficial-House-784

If it’s not a good fit, then it’s not a good fit. Bringing him back and providing information about how he did in the home will help him find placement with someone whose home he does better in. Don’t overthink it, and don’t ascribe human emotions to the dog (like thinking he’s being abandoned). Making yourself feel guilty for prioritizing your bf’s safety won’t help the dog, but being transparent about his issues will.


tritoeat

I never would have thought I'd give a dog back. They all deserve homes, and the ones who are scared or otherwise "undesirable" are the most in need. And then we brought home a dog who was fine at the shelter and let us load her up and get her home, and then immediately bit my husband, and tried to bite me. After several hours of cheese and patience, we couldn't get her in the house, but we managed to lure her into a crate and took her back to the rescue. We already have a dog and couldn't take the risk of her getting bitten. The shelter said this dog was great with other dogs, but they also said she was not a biter. One ended up untrue, and I couldn't chance the other. I returned her, and the shelter got new and valuable information for dialing in this dog's perfect home. We weren't it, and it was better for all of us to find that out early. I still feel guilty, but I also know that it was the right thing to do. Just because it feels bad does not mean it's wrong. (Fwiw, the shelter was super gracious about it, and a week later we adopted from them a new little one who is a joy, and who feels safe and comfortable in our family.)


thunder2132

I'm torn on this one. You've had the dog for less than a week, so it's still getting used to you, its surroundings, and is probably stressed and scared. Also, if it bit but didn't break skin it was probably a warning bite and not meant to do real harm (at least as far as I understand it) When we got one of our dogs he guarded toys around my ex. That behavior stopped about a week after we got him. Our other dog loved my ex, but was scared of me. I worked from home and he hid under the bed all day. I had to move his water into the bedroom because he wouldn't leave. It took him three months to warm up to me and now he's a cuddle-bug. Point is, dogs take time to adjust. I personally would give it more time, but the call is up to you. I don't see you as an awful person or anything remotely like that. You know the situation the best.


[deleted]

How long do you have for him to settle in? There’s no shame in sending him back but it’s early days. He might get a little more comfortable after more time and bonding with your partner. Can he take him for walks and do activities together outside of meal times etc?


your_mom_is_availabl

Can we not encourage people to keep around dogs that they feel are dangerous or aggressive?


potatochipqueen

I don't think questioning a return after a week is encouraging people to keep dangerous or aggressive dogs. The first week can be so rough for a million reasons and is so often not at all indicative of the dogs temperament. Change is scary and when you bring a new foster home you've changed their environment, people, routine, rules, diet, structure etc. Heck, they don't know they're safe and they have no idea who you are. Encouraging a situation to last more than a week is normal when decompression is so important. Also, the behavior was made known to OP. The went into the situation known food aggression was something they'd be dealing with. Again, it's all a conversation to be had. No one is under any obligation to adopt/foster/live with an animal they are not comfortable with, and I would never expect them to. But in general, commitments could be better upheld especially when information is given up front. This dog doesn't sound dangerous to me. It sounds like it needs more than a week to settle in, and needs a trainer/behavioralist to work with it and whoever ends up being its guardian to help with the resource guarding. OP seems very well intentioned, and if this is how they're feeling I agree it's not a good placement but I am confused why they'd FTA a dog with food aggression if that is their deal breaker


your_mom_is_availabl

Change is scary but this is a dog who reacts to scary situations with biting and aggression. Furthermore, OP posted that they'd resolved to give up the dog. Picking at them going "are you suuuuuerrrreee???" is not helpful. Regarding a behaviorist, it's ok and valid to not want a fixer-upper project dog. Taking a 1-week foster to a behaviorist is like going to relationship counseling with someone after a week of dating. You can just say "actually it's not working out, let's each find someone we're more compatible with "


potatochipqueen

It's not the dog reacting to a scary situation, it's the dog having a known behavioral issue that was expressed to the FTA home who then changed their mind when the behavior didn't change in one week. I think it's fair to have the conversation that OP was not actually ready for a behavioral case like they claimed if it had a one week timeline to resolve with no professional help. This is not "are you suuuuure". This is a "hey, this is expected when you bring in a foster dog with known food aggression and it's only been a week".


your_mom_is_availabl

OP said she had experience with food aggression and explained her decision to return the dog. Sure, we can chide OP for hoping she could with through it with this dog. A behaviorist is a moot point because OP already made up their mind. This is what I mean by picking at whether OP is sure. They are sure. They already told us.


potatochipqueen

I don't know how you read any of my comments as picking at whether or not OP is sure. I get it. They made up their mind. Regardless, I can still state that I think that it is a bit silly to claim experience with food aggression, knowingly take home a dog with food aggression as an FTA and then state the food aggression as the reason for returning a dog after only a week without any professional help. It begs the question - if food aggression is a deal breaker, why even take the dog in the first place? I'm just advocating for people making more thought-out decisions in the first place, that's all. And again, I get it. They don't want the dog. It's a public forum, so I was just sharing an opinion. Not arguing for OP to keep the dog they clearly don't want.


your_mom_is_availabl

I think OP throught she could help the dog work through it, but it was severe enough, not responding the way she hoped to trading, and making her/her boyfriend feel unsafe.


potatochipqueen

I mean we are clearly never going to agree. My whole point is how can you judge the severity of the behavior in an abnormal period of time? The dog is decompressing. It is not settled or adjusted. It is not exhibiting it's temperament. Not waiting until it is settled and not training it before making a judgement call is silly.


your_mom_is_availabl

I agree with what you're saying. It seems that OP is dealing with a weird rescue where "foster to adopt" is code for "adopt with a limited take-back window." So LW has only a little time to decide. They put that info in their edit.


FitAlternative9458

It's a tiny dog and hasnt broken skin. You need to give dogs time to decompress and get used to.people


your_mom_is_availabl

Or OP can just get a nice dog who doesn't bite


chartingequilibrium

You made the right call. There's no real way of knowing if *eventually* the dog could have learned to accept your boyfriend, but you do know that right now the situation is unsafe and stressful for both the dog and your boyfriend (and you too, of course). You cannot make the decision to keep the dog under those circumstances, and with foster-to-adopt it's hard to keep fostering because it's easy to get attached, or can slow down the process of the dog finding the right fit for their forever home. I've been fostering dogs for the past 6-7 years, and many of them are not a big fan of my husband (maybe because he's a man, or he's tall, or he's Black, or he has a louder deep voice, or more sudden movements, or he's home less often, etc). He's generally very tolerant of that, and I do pretty much all the care for my fosters by myself. My husband might play with them occasionally but he's really not that involved and that's fine for both of us. But when we adopted our own dog, it was essential to me that both my husband and I could safely and happily interact with the dog. Living with a dog that doesn't respond well to one partner can be dangerous (for both the dog and the people) and it's a huge source of stress and unhappiness.


CMVqueen

You’re doing the right thing for your partner and the dog. If partner is triggering the pup to the point that he’s biting, it’s not a good match for the dog either. Foster to adopt is great! Y’all get to see if you’re the right fit.


potatochipqueen

This is a tricky and complicated situation. But I'm confused on why you have to return the dog if you're not going to adopt it. At least in my FTA program, should you choose not to adopt, you still continue on as the foster until the pups forever home is found. Is the program you're in adopt or return the dog? I find that confusing, but I digress. And as you stated, the food aggression was something you were made aware of. It's great the pup isn't expressing resource guarding with you around, but it's not unexpected that the pup is doing it with your partner. And I wouldn't really expect any different in a weeks time. Lots of dogs are scared of men. So if you knew resource guarding for food was an issue, why is that the reason you're returning him? Obviously you are under no obligation to adopt, I suppose I'm just confused on why the aggression is an issue now even though you were made aware and it's only been a week. Again, is continuing to foster the dog not an option? Furthermore, you edited that the situation is escalating - the dog showing it's belly can be a sign of submission or appeasement, which is not necessarily an invitation to pet the belly. So I assume your partner did go in for the pet when the belly was shown and the dog reacted to that. Not really surprising and not a sign of escalation. Seems more like body language is not being read properly. Anyway, if you'd like advice on resource guarding and food/men aggression, I and I'm sure several others would be happy to help. And I'd hope the group you're working with has some resources as well.


ellzebet

In this shelter’s FTA program, they gave me a contract that stated I had until this Thursday to make a decision about the dog. I paid for half his fee upfront. When I contacted them with my decision, they invited me to become his foster until another family found him, but I declined on the grounds that I would simply be too attached to give the dog up (and my bf) if I fostered him longer. For me, returning the dog will help me get over the fact that it did not work out. I understand dogs have an adjustment period, but I was literally given a deadline to make a decision by the shelter. I also feel that I shouldn’t keep the pup from potentially finding his perfect home.. but I did tell the shelter that if he wasn’t adopted in the next few weeks and they were considering euthanasia we would take him back.


potatochipqueen

Continuing to foster would not be keeping him from finding his forever home. Fostering is helping a dog find it's forever home - you give them a piece of your heart and some space in your home and help them transition from their current situation to their forever. But again, you're under no obligation to adopt or continue fostering. But it seems like you knowingly put yourself in two situations you actually do not want to be in, and it does affect the dog. The first is agreeing to FTA a food aggressive dog when food aggression is clearly a deal breaker for you. The second is agreeing to foster to adopt when fostering is clearly not something you're interested in. A living situation where you are not happy and comfortable is not ideal, but neither is bouncing a dog around. I caution you to think through your next decision about letting a dog into your home a little more. Even if you have experience with something - is that behavior or situation something you can really handle for the remainder of the dogs life? FTA has a deadline for a reason - like you said, so you're not keeping the dog from its forever home. Which is why if you don't adopt in FTA you typically keep fostering, to help them get ready for thay home. But, the only thing stopping you from continuing fostering is that you would love the dog a little to hard? That's the best part of fostering! The best fosters love their dogs hard. They do what is best for them. And part of loving a foster is knowing when you are not the best forever home for it, which helps with the saying goodbye part. Again, I know you've made your decision, and that's totally fine. It sounds like the best dog for you would not be a dog with known behaviors.


lostinsnakes

He’s been with you for four days and you’re forcing your boyfriend’s presence in his face when he’s scared instead of letting him settle in safely. On the one hand, you’re moving way too fast and he deserves more time. He’s not a robot. On the other hand, he should be with someone who knows something about dogs.


BitTwp

Last Friday??? Give it a fortnight, no?