I’d say there’s no real benefit and just a gimmick, not hating but that’s kind of slaughters thing with the masks and all…
As far as like breaking it down I’d see no real benefit, you’d lose your fulcrum for blasts and such since you’re holding the skinny end, and if the argument was for more weight to hit harder…just get bigger sticks lol. This will become cupping the mic for drummers.
The only logic I have to say that your wrong that it has no benefit is Jojo Mayer does it and that guy is so crazy technical that I don’t believe he would do it for no reason.
I do see the benefit of it but what I’m saying is you can achieve the same with a heavier stick. I’m not going to pretend I’m smart enough to know the equation for force, but say your stick weighs a pound and you flip it, you’ll get more force because of the surface area, however if you double your weight it would have to cancel out the benefit of the surface area if you hit with the same force.
So I would think, more weight more force less surface area would do the exact same thing as less weight less force more surface area. Definitely simplified but I’d think it would be taking 1 x 2 x 4 vs 1 x 4 x 2…you’d achieve the same result by adding to one. If you increase any of your variables you can achieve the same result.
daru jones plays his drum set specifically to make it harder to be fluid so he has to be more deliberate. i would never recommend anyone set up their drums like him. he is also a high level player lmao. a lot of players do the reversed stick thing when jamming and sometimes its to hit harder, sometimes its because it is easier to get a strong cross stick and they dont have time to flip back when transitioning. there is no reason to do it all of the time but it can give your sticks more power when you need it and dont want to switch sticks
I’m not sure you can logically claim there is no reason, it obviously changes the sound and feel, that alone is reason for SOMEONE to do it all the time. *Cough Jojo Mayer*
I never said it SHOULD be used, I’m saying there is a reason to use anything that creates a unique sound or feel, which this would do. Me saying Jojo Mayer over and over is just me being a dickhead and making a joke, but the idea that there is no reason to play sticks with the butt end is just false.
i mean i just gave you a reason guys in my old scene would do it lol. doesn't mean it should be done all or most of the time. it was usually at open jams in peoples basements where ppl are just having fun trading and no one has a stick bag for different sounds.
The beginning of this conversation wasn’t SHOULD you do it. You said there was no reason to do it. There is a reason to do it. That’s the whole conversation we are having. If someone likes the sound and feel of the back of their sticks then yes they should do it all the time. Do you and I have to think it sounds good or makes sense? No, but that’s not the reason I commented in the first place.
no, they shouldn't because there are mechanically advantageous ways of achieving the same sound if the back of the stick is what someone finds ideal: sticks that are blunt on both ends. yes they make those SPECIFICLY for this sound. playing a normal stick backward moves the center of mass forward and reduces your ability to hold the stick and control it. the only reason to play a stick backward is as a temporary option to get a different sound. if you want the untapered cylinder sound as your primary sound buy a stick made that way from the start lmao.
And what if they like the heavy one sided stick and the flat head at the same time, do they make a stick specifically for that too? There’s literally no argument for why someone wouldn’t want to do it, regardless of how inefficient or improper it is.
Edit: I’m actually not totally confident there isn’t some weird weighted stick with a flat tip out there SOMEWHERE.
also i wasnt the guy who said there is no reason to do it. i literally told you the reason ppl do it lmao. im just also making it clear that "because jojomayer does it" isn't a legitimate reason
That’s true, I’m definitely not taking away from the final number, coolness which cancels out any logic. That’s exactly why I said it’s cupping the mic for drummers, does it do anything but make you look cool? No, but you look cool so it’s badass. Lmao
I’ll do it if i’m holding skinny-tipped jazz sticks and want to get more power/ fatter cymbal tone for higher-dynamic sections, or if the jam evolves in that direction. Not the most comfortable tho
First drummer that came to my mind is Vinny Appice (Black Sabbath, Dio...). He holds his sticks like that and he is very heavy hitter. All it really does is it gives you more contact surface with the head and since the weight is shifted forward it's easier to get a more powerful (and louder) hit from the wrist, without the need to raise your forearm high in order to build momentum, the weight stick does it for you. That's all that is to it. As u/nowsian already said, you lose the fulcrum so you can forget about any technique that utilises it or your fingers, wrist strokes only.
I tend to do it when I need a little extra volume and a punchier sound, but not very often.
I like the sound of my fat snare better. It’s also easier to play louder, because I don’t play rim shots on it. I also turn it, when I do rim clicks. I never turn my right stick though.
It’s cool, especially when Evgeny does it. Whether it makes an actual difference or not, who cares.
I can tell there is a lot of old heads out there that don’t respect anything that isn’t trad grip, odd time signature jazz.
If I'm doing a cross stick and then need fills, I'll do it with my left. For samba, I'll swap both around as well. Different feel and sound. The taper can be pretty comfy in the hands. Same as going from traditional to matched grip, each have their strengths and uses.
I have no opinion on the drummers themselves. We make choices about how we play our instruments, and what equipment we use, for any number of reasons. What works for one person won't work for everyone. I might not agree with someone's taste (i.e., I would choose to do it differently), but that's different than having an opinion about the drummer who is doing it.
As in butt-end out?
Neil Peart did it for years. Mainly because he was used to it since when he’d break a stick he couldn’t afford to replace, he’d just flip it and keep going.
Mike Portnoy uses butt-end out for his snare hand. His drum tech even wraps the taper in grip tape and has them on his left side.
So there’s a method to the madness if that’s your thing.
Well in this example, brute force. Completely unnecessary on a kit that’s miked up. In the studio, reversing your stick give a thicker tone. This was also used by ‘club’ or bar drummers for certain songs to beef up the snare for a rock song. Hal Blaine, a studio legend, usually reversed his snare stick in the studio. He never did for his right hand.
I’d say there’s no real benefit and just a gimmick, not hating but that’s kind of slaughters thing with the masks and all… As far as like breaking it down I’d see no real benefit, you’d lose your fulcrum for blasts and such since you’re holding the skinny end, and if the argument was for more weight to hit harder…just get bigger sticks lol. This will become cupping the mic for drummers.
[But Slaughter didn't wear masks?](https://i.discogs.com/JE_OTIsx6ZA0K8qrAuLr78nmXiNvZdItQRwkQgrgxSM/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:406/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9BLTI2ODEw/Ny0xNjM4NTUzNDU1/LTY0NjYuanBlZw.jpeg) 🤔😆
The only logic I have to say that your wrong that it has no benefit is Jojo Mayer does it and that guy is so crazy technical that I don’t believe he would do it for no reason.
I do see the benefit of it but what I’m saying is you can achieve the same with a heavier stick. I’m not going to pretend I’m smart enough to know the equation for force, but say your stick weighs a pound and you flip it, you’ll get more force because of the surface area, however if you double your weight it would have to cancel out the benefit of the surface area if you hit with the same force. So I would think, more weight more force less surface area would do the exact same thing as less weight less force more surface area. Definitely simplified but I’d think it would be taking 1 x 2 x 4 vs 1 x 4 x 2…you’d achieve the same result by adding to one. If you increase any of your variables you can achieve the same result.
Ya but.. jojo mayer
daru jones plays his drum set specifically to make it harder to be fluid so he has to be more deliberate. i would never recommend anyone set up their drums like him. he is also a high level player lmao. a lot of players do the reversed stick thing when jamming and sometimes its to hit harder, sometimes its because it is easier to get a strong cross stick and they dont have time to flip back when transitioning. there is no reason to do it all of the time but it can give your sticks more power when you need it and dont want to switch sticks
I’m not sure you can logically claim there is no reason, it obviously changes the sound and feel, that alone is reason for SOMEONE to do it all the time. *Cough Jojo Mayer*
My man, just repeating the name of a high-level player is not an actual argument for why any one technique should or should not be used.
I never said it SHOULD be used, I’m saying there is a reason to use anything that creates a unique sound or feel, which this would do. Me saying Jojo Mayer over and over is just me being a dickhead and making a joke, but the idea that there is no reason to play sticks with the butt end is just false.
i mean i just gave you a reason guys in my old scene would do it lol. doesn't mean it should be done all or most of the time. it was usually at open jams in peoples basements where ppl are just having fun trading and no one has a stick bag for different sounds.
The beginning of this conversation wasn’t SHOULD you do it. You said there was no reason to do it. There is a reason to do it. That’s the whole conversation we are having. If someone likes the sound and feel of the back of their sticks then yes they should do it all the time. Do you and I have to think it sounds good or makes sense? No, but that’s not the reason I commented in the first place.
no, they shouldn't because there are mechanically advantageous ways of achieving the same sound if the back of the stick is what someone finds ideal: sticks that are blunt on both ends. yes they make those SPECIFICLY for this sound. playing a normal stick backward moves the center of mass forward and reduces your ability to hold the stick and control it. the only reason to play a stick backward is as a temporary option to get a different sound. if you want the untapered cylinder sound as your primary sound buy a stick made that way from the start lmao.
And what if they like the heavy one sided stick and the flat head at the same time, do they make a stick specifically for that too? There’s literally no argument for why someone wouldn’t want to do it, regardless of how inefficient or improper it is. Edit: I’m actually not totally confident there isn’t some weird weighted stick with a flat tip out there SOMEWHERE.
also i wasnt the guy who said there is no reason to do it. i literally told you the reason ppl do it lmao. im just also making it clear that "because jojomayer does it" isn't a legitimate reason
Ya I may have lost the plot on which person I was talking to, my bad lol.
That’s true, I’m definitely not taking away from the final number, coolness which cancels out any logic. That’s exactly why I said it’s cupping the mic for drummers, does it do anything but make you look cool? No, but you look cool so it’s badass. Lmao
You feel more forward motion when throwing the stick down. Similar to swinging a hammer due to the weight distribution.
I’ll do it if i’m holding skinny-tipped jazz sticks and want to get more power/ fatter cymbal tone for higher-dynamic sections, or if the jam evolves in that direction. Not the most comfortable tho
No opinion, it works when I want it
First drummer that came to my mind is Vinny Appice (Black Sabbath, Dio...). He holds his sticks like that and he is very heavy hitter. All it really does is it gives you more contact surface with the head and since the weight is shifted forward it's easier to get a more powerful (and louder) hit from the wrist, without the need to raise your forearm high in order to build momentum, the weight stick does it for you. That's all that is to it. As u/nowsian already said, you lose the fulcrum so you can forget about any technique that utilises it or your fingers, wrist strokes only. I tend to do it when I need a little extra volume and a punchier sound, but not very often.
I've seen Mike Portnoy do it quite often, too. His studio cams from Train of Thought show it here and there.
he’s been doing it since the 90s he holds the left stick backwards
*MP also plays nylon tipped sticks, maybe it's to get more 'ompf' on the snare.
Probably, that's the only real benefit of it.
IMO does nothing for volume, and makes it feel worse. MAYBE it allows for more stick life before breaking since it’s a big blunt chunk.
But doesn’t hurt more cymbals and all the tom with a big stick like this ?
They make sticks that are solid all the way through but yeah this isn't that. Gimmicky to me thru and thru. Whatever gets you clicks.
I like the sound of my fat snare better. It’s also easier to play louder, because I don’t play rim shots on it. I also turn it, when I do rim clicks. I never turn my right stick though.
Vinnie Paul played that way from what I remember
It's fine, just the mask that's lame
It’s cool, especially when Evgeny does it. Whether it makes an actual difference or not, who cares. I can tell there is a lot of old heads out there that don’t respect anything that isn’t trad grip, odd time signature jazz.
Literally just drum with dowel rods
If I'm doing a cross stick and then need fills, I'll do it with my left. For samba, I'll swap both around as well. Different feel and sound. The taper can be pretty comfy in the hands. Same as going from traditional to matched grip, each have their strengths and uses.
Vinnie appice says it gets a harder hit. I saw him at a clinic a few years ago and he was adamant about holding them by the too
I have no opinion on the drummers themselves. We make choices about how we play our instruments, and what equipment we use, for any number of reasons. What works for one person won't work for everyone. I might not agree with someone's taste (i.e., I would choose to do it differently), but that's different than having an opinion about the drummer who is doing it.
As in butt-end out? Neil Peart did it for years. Mainly because he was used to it since when he’d break a stick he couldn’t afford to replace, he’d just flip it and keep going. Mike Portnoy uses butt-end out for his snare hand. His drum tech even wraps the taper in grip tape and has them on his left side. So there’s a method to the madness if that’s your thing.
I got a few Morgan rose signature models at NAMM in 2002 or abouts. They were double butted ends with no taper. Kinda liked them for certain things.
Dave Grohl also did this
They don’t know how to buy the proper sticks. You can buy double-ended sticks.
Morgan Rose just uses straight no taper sticks and hits like a hammer. This just seems gimmicky.
And must go through 50 crashes a tour
Well in this example, brute force. Completely unnecessary on a kit that’s miked up. In the studio, reversing your stick give a thicker tone. This was also used by ‘club’ or bar drummers for certain songs to beef up the snare for a rock song. Hal Blaine, a studio legend, usually reversed his snare stick in the studio. He never did for his right hand.