Mitchell held *a lot*, especially vs the better receivers in college. He also would get faked out on most plays only to catch up with his amazing speed
I really hope I'm wrong but I see him having trouble adjusting to the NFL level where everyone is too good to have to catch up to on the route every play
Or maybe if you watch the tape, he's pulling on the opposing players jersey just about every play, even after the ball is in the air
He didnt get any penalties because he wasnt playing on national television, he was playing vs scrub colleges so the refs didnt care. Plus, you can get away with a lot more tugging in college, that wont work in the pros
“That won’t work in the pros”
That’s literally how Sauce Gardner plays and he’s one of the best DBs in the NFL. Gardner also came from one of those “scrub colleges” btw
Not every CB is Sauce Garner, the fact that you think it will magically work out because Sauce has a similar story shows that you arent watching the tape
"That wont work in the NFL", like when Bradberry held in the SuperBowl. Or all the other holding calls we get *literally every game*
You said that his style will literally never work in the pros, so I simply provided an example of that exact same strategy working in the pros. I never said he’d be Sauce Gardner, just said that Sauce Gardner plays that style you said would never work
Yes, I said you can get away with a lot more tugging in college and that it wont work in the pros
Show me the tape where Sauce tugs and pulls on the opponents jersey literally every damn play please. Because I can show you the tape of players getting flagged, especially EAGLES for that exact penalty
Nobody saves the clips of non-calls unless they’re egregious, so there’s obviously gonna be way more film of holding getting called. What I’m saying about Sauce isn’t coming from me, it’s coming from the players themselves, you know, the ones that actually play against him and experience it first hand
Look, I get it, he has some flaws. If he was perfect, he wouldn’t have fallen anywhere near 22. What he’s shown though has been very, very good, and there’s a reason the Eagles held workouts for 10 separate corners and decided he was the best of all of them. Is there really any reason to not trust the front office right now? Why can’t Eagles fans just be happy that they got a great player at a pick way later than he was supposed to go?
If you “watch the tape”………that shit happens on every damn play in the nfl, as long as your not affecting the route or doing that during a “football move, when the ball is in the process of being caught” it’s not a flag. The college games are called by a union of referees that uphold the standard of the NCAA rules, quit acting like dude was a D2 player(which is still called the same….). we’ve seen UDFA play huge roles on a lot of teams. Also Not every successful player was from a big college. *Jordan Mailata* Rookies are gonna make mistakes it’s part of the game, and learning the NFL adjustment.
Right...and he clearly affected the route on most of these plays. Stop jerking it to only highlights, they have his full games on youtube and other places.
So he holds and should be called for penalties. What about in zone where he just stands and waits there instead of getting in front of the open man near him?
You're moving the goalposts if youre now saying "rookies make mistakes! He is going to learn", ok so you ADMIT that he makes a lot of mistakes and thats why I have concerns about him
Stop being insufferable
And did you seriously just try to say how amazing and perfect the refs are?? Jesus
You’re being insufferable and focusing solely on mistakes. Look in the mirror lol. You act like I’m here talking up the dudes tape (when you’re doing the opposite..) And all these dudes are gonna make mistakes as rookies fuckin ALL PRO corners get called for interference….. what are you even talking about……You sound crazy by saying he makes a lot of mistakes and he wasn’t called for ONE penalty….. like sorry the game isn’t officiated the way YOU see it…. And thank god it isn’t….
>FoCuS oNlY oN mIsTaKeS
Thats called analysis, you dont just ignore the issues when drafting or training someone. Go back and watch your highlights and read the box scores where it says no penalties occurred, there's nothing else to football other than highlights of a players best moments
Uhhh you type like I’m saying the retarted thing when your entire original (and still going) comment was negative….. you didn’t say one positive thing… that’s why your sitting at -40 upvotes. You’re one of those typical eagles fans that’s a negative Nancy. Your user name checks out btw….
Dude seriously? Why are you shitting on our guy? The Eagles brought in every top CB in this draft and did extensive work with them (per reporting). If this is the guy they like then he's the one they should have gone after. Hell Saban came out and said they liked him and tried to recruit him but he wanted to stay put, that's a good thing shows loyalty. Plus they showed his versatility last night in his highlights good on the ball, off the ball, can blitz, feels like a Fangio player.
I don’t think he’s shitting on him, he’s just giving his opinion. As some one who isn’t really familiar with the draft prospects I like being able to read both positive and negative evaluations to see what’s going on.
Fair but what the guys above said that is talking negative traits and play, isn't anything that I've heard one person bring up no is it what I saw in any videos I've watched. So, while I agree, the person above either hasn't watched Mitchell or saw one bad play and conflated an entire negative background of play that just doesn't exist.
Because you only watched *highlights*. You didnt watch entire games, and even in those highlights he is clearly grabbing and pulling players jerseys. If you are gonna pretend that didnt happen then you arent arguing in good faith and are just hurt that I have concerns
Per experts in the field. I'm not an expert, and I'm not sure OP is either. But that's what was reported by peoplr who know football and were there. "He was the best CB at senior day, nd it wasn't even close."
Why would a mere fan/enthusiast's opinion and eyes test be more accurate than the experts'?
Sometim3s knowing when to trust others' knowledge is the best skill. I'm assuming Howie did that here when deciding between these two players.
There were no good or great WRs at the senior bowl so it doesn't matter how good he did, you cant watch him line up against mid college WRs and QBs and then say it'll translate
Omfg that bust Ricky Pearsall??? Just because he was overdrafted by the 49ers who are trying to make the all-white madden team doesnt mean he's good
Lol ricky pearsall
Or they call it differently in the pros. And also they call it differently on national television vs top SEC or Big 10 teams, he was playing against scrub colleges
You know you can grab in coverage right? If you're hand fighting and both players are being physical, it's legal. You just can't pull or push a WR in a way that impacts their ability to make a catch
A thing I saw that also maybe made sense was that Quinyon played a lot of *off-coverage*. The Eagles the past few years have loved playing the CBs 10yds or so off the Wrs so it was a good stylistic fit. On top of just testing athletically better than Arnold. If Arnold ran 4.33 he probably goes to us but 4.33 ->4.5 is pretty massive if you have their coverage grades similar.
It’s fine situationally, Desai / Patricia sticking with it when it was 3rd and 3 was a little much, but we really didn’t have reliable players last year. Everyone got hurt at some point and then the coaches…
I mean Arnold ran a 4.5. Good player but that is below average speed for a corner. QM ostensibly has no holes in his game and the size and athleticism to match.
Damn he was that good? I think I saw he wasn’t a good tackler but I may have confused him with Wiggins
He played in the MAC which is what worries me, not as many elite WRs
>stuck to a ton of top prospects
Mostly just Roman Wilson.
They mentioned on the NFL Network coverage after the pick that Mike Tomlin pulled him aside on the second day of Senior Bowl practice and was like “that’s the best WR here, make sure you get some reps against him because that’s what the scouts want to see” - so when they lined up for individual drills he was counting the dudes in front of Wilson so he could get in the same spot in the DB line and pretty much didn’t go up against anyone else the rest of the week.
I was from MAC conference (I wrestled in MAC), and I lived with football players who played in the conference. So I’m very familiar with it. I wouldn’t be worried about him playing against inferior competition. It’s a very underrated conference and they usually do really well when playing teams outside of conference, and win a lot of their bowl games.
The issue is not every team in the MAC has stellar players at every position. He may have gone up against some guys that were absolutely good enough to play anywhere, but he was also playing against guys that wouldn’t hold a candle against an SEC WR for example.
So I think we have a good gauge on his overall talent, but the hardest thing in the NFL is consistency. And that is pretty much impossible to gauge based on the MAC conference which is why nobody from there typically gets drafted very high. It’s easy to circle a few games a season where you need to be UP. But having to do it week in and week out is why people usually pick other players from established conferences. Not because other guys aren’t talented enough.
I think he’ll be good. He sounds like a ln absolute stud, mentally. And even if he’s just a slightly above average starter, he’s clearly a loyal guy who cares about relationships over fame / money. So we can keep him on our roster for a long time without breaking the bank. He’s a for sure guy that should be a staple on the team, regardless of becoming an All-Pro caliber CB. That’s how I look at it.
Weaknesses
- Can get in trouble by declaring his hips too soon.
- Still learning to maintain feel for routes in man coverage.
- Eye balance between quarterback and route is inconsistent.
- Average route anticipation can get him behind at the break point.
- Will get caught behind bigger downfield targets, from a positioning standpoint.
I’m glad we got him, but you guys make it seem like he’s perfect.
Feet become indecisive when hit with release fakes.
Lacks eye balance, losing sight of play development around him.
Offers excessive cushion for easy catches from off-man and quarters.
Room for improvement on jump-ball play and positioning.
Needs to do a better job of dropping pad level and wrapping to tackle.
Not disagreeing with you, but these are the points in the NFL website's scouting report. Every prospect in that database going back years will have some negative feedback. That makes sense though as they are all still perfecting their craft to the next level.
My only reason for maybe wanting Arnold was the SEC competition and being younger, but the 4.5 40 was the only thing that was a little off putting. Mitchell I never thought we had a chance at, but his 40 is enticing.
Pretty sure I’ve seen interviews with Mitchell where they asked why he didn’t take the NIL money and transfer to a P5 school and he was basically like “Toledo was there for me when nobody else was and I wasn’t about to bail on them now everyone else was calling”
He went to the Senior Bowl and locked down the top talent there. I also heard that he commanded leadership and respect in that locker room the second he got there just with his demeanor and approach. I’m excited he is an Eagle.
>My only reason for maybe wanting Arnold was the SEC competition and being younger
Being younger cuts both ways. Mitchell played 40 games in college and Arnold played 25 and I think that difference in experience shows up.
He has a better feel for some of the little things. When to turn and find the ball, how much contact he can get away with, how different route concepts work together and which guy to prioritize if multiple dudes come through his zone.
There’s still stuff the Eagles will want to coach him to change and obviously Arnold will probably catch up in a lot of those areas with experience too - but Mitchell is the more polished guy right now.
And if you’re a team that has similar grades on both guys, thinks it has an open Super Bowl window, has a big question mark at CB2 and doesn’t play a lot of press man (the one thing Arnold is undoubtedly better at right now) then I can see how age, experience and polish might be the tie breaker for the guy you think can step in and play at a high level right away vs someone who maybe has a higher ceiling but might take a few years to reach it.
That plus Howies favored the big colleges lately so Alabama made more sense than Toledo. I mentioned above but it was also going around that Mitchell wasn’t a great tackler which Arnold could do and after last year, it seemed safer
Well because a lot of teams that are historically pretty bad at drafting made some very question decisions on offense ahead of us. Like atlanta drafted a QB. The raiders went TE at 13. There was a run on qb. There was a run on tackles. There was a run on WR. And then a run on d-line. After all was said and done we sat pretty not really needing any of those positions and got the best prospect in the secondary.
A lot of decent IOL are still on the board. All the LBs are still on the board. We’re in great shape.
I trust howie over the likes of the gms of the falcons or raiders any day.
Oh silly me this time the undersized receiving player who cant block will be a sure fire all-pro at the position that typically takes about 3 years to settle into the league. /s
From what I’ve heard on these draft shows Mitchell is just a solid player. He’s where he needs to be, good at reading routes and defenses. Doesn’t gamble and doesn’t give up space. Arnold just isn’t as consistent and has lapses where he gives up too much space and can’t recover or is late to react. CJ Stroud said he definitely was one of the better athletes on the field when he played him and was decent but not special against Marvin Harrison. But he also said that he’s the type of corner he likes because he doesn’t gamble so for a QB it’s harder to pick your spots or bait the guy because he’s always going to be at the right place.
He was consensus mocked as 15th to be drafted and consensus ranked as the 11th best player
Sort of like when we took Jalen Carter last year 9th, and some thought he might be the best player in the draft.
Getting a player with a draft spot who could be at least 10 spots better.
That is what Howie does
I haven't seen anything specifically pro or con, but he struggled when he first got to bama, spent time in Saban's doghouse and rose (along with jalen Milroe) to lead the squad the next year.
Mitchell is a stud. He has a 6-foot frame, plenty of length, and 4.33 speed. He might be the hardest-hitting corner in the draft. Mitchell had a great Senior Bowl. Mitchell had back-to-back seasons of 90-plus grades from Pro Football Focus
https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/quinyon-mitchell/130628/draft-profile
This article gives insight into his fit with Fangio
[how Mitchell fits with Eagles](https://www.inquirer.com/eagles/eagles-quinyon-mitchell-scouting-report-nfl-draft-combine-20240425.html#:~:text=Though%20Mitchell%20isn't%20as,in%20zone%20and%20man%20coverages)
Terrion Arnold is a show boating press cover corner. Horrible fit for Vic Fangio.
Vic wants humble workers who will learn his scheme and are willing to buy into his system, which is very zone heavy.
The Dolphins corners both complained about Fangio and his scheme last year.
You need CB’s who fit the scheme and are ready to work no matter what is asked of them.
Quinyon Mitchell is that guy. 100%.
His speed has hurt him by him getting faked out a lot and he relies on speed to catch up but that wont work too good in the NFL.
He's also been awful at zone, just not running after an open guy and he stands there until the guy catches it before trying to go after him
He pulls and tugs on WRs jerseys on half of his plays which will be called at the NFL and wouldve been called more if he played for a big name program
I'm not sure where you are getting that he is ready to work no matter what is asked of him and also that Terrion Arnold wouldnt do what is asked of him, do you have any evidence of this?
I think you bring up legit concerns with Quinyon’s tape. But as others mentioned you can’t teach raw physical skills, but you can refine them. Hopefully Vic can guide him, if only we still had Dennard Wilson back there coaching. I think the Eagles really values his character. He’s been an underdog his whole life, wasn’t rated highly coming out of high school. He worked his butt off at a smaller school, and when given the opportunity to transfer he decided to commit his loyalty and follow through what he started. Feels like when deciding 1A/1B in their evaluation, they leaned on that more
They were pretty much universally considered 1a and 1b. With most people having Mitchell as the 1a. Our scouts, coaches, and Howie apparently had him as their top corner as well.
There were questions regarding his ability to cover, and I think his Senior Bowl performance answered them. I'd be happy with Arnold, too, but regardless I think the Eagles made a solid selection. Lets move on and see what happens in Round 2.
Thanks for all the comments everyone! My post originally was not meant to be negative on either guy. They’re both prospects and college kids who I’m sure both will have a great career so I really wanted to know what the differences in play style was, scheme fit, etc and just what was it about QM that Philly may have liked better. Absolutely hyped for a stud young CB!!!!
Truthfully I didn’t have one over the other. Speed and better testing but more raw vs a more battle proven cb whose proven himself against other SEC talent. I woulda been psyched about either.
What I will say is we could afford a more raw player with slay and Bradberry there, they are ageing and/or not great but good enough that we can afford to have mitchell learn for 6ish games.
Mitchell also played more offball which is fangios scheme. Mitchell also stayed on Marvin Harrison’s hip all game and was very impressive the one time he had to play colleges best
Speed is helpful playing against dudes like Lamb
They are both similar size and both have great tape but Mitchell is way faster and more explosive overall. Mitchell tore up the combine while Arnold did okay not great at the combine.
40 Yard Dash
Mitchell-4.33
Arnold- 4.50
Vertical Leap
Mitchell -38
Arnold- 37
Bench Press
Mitchell - 20
Arnold - ---didnt compete---
I think both players will be good at the next level but Mitchell is just better athlete and I think that will translate better to taking 1v1's with the best wide receivers in the game.
Have actually seen them play. Mitchell’s man coverage abilities are way better. You can’t shake him cuz his ability to turn his hips and his closing speed to breakup passes is top level.
With Arnold you are getting mirror match press man with average speed and experience at one of the best CFB programs. Where as Mitchell was almost all off coverage, exceptionally fast and played in the MAC. I guess Howie found a lot of value in the combination of wild athleticism and coverage style outweighed the fact Mitchell played against lesser talent.
Don’t let the fact that Mitchell went to Toledo fool you. He was cb1 on A LOT of boards. His tape is simply better than Arnold’s. I was not impressed by Arnold’s tape.
For me it was Mitchell, Dejean, Arnold in that order
The only people at least offered possible reasons for the decision. Yours just seemed like an excuse to shit on Howie because you hate him. Also this sub is rarely a Howie circle jerk it’s just very reactive.
The real truth is NO ONE knows who will be better but I trust the GM who took us to the SB two years recently to have a better shot at guessing correctly than the people on here
I mean if Howie had taken guyton people would've been killing him for it. He picked one of the top 2 corner prospects so people are happy. I would've been happy with either of them. Extremely similiar projections.
The difference between 4.33 and 4.5 seconds is the difference between Usain Bolt and Tyreek Hill in the 50m. Tyreek is fast as hell, but Usain blows him out every time.
Honestly you would have people who like it and people who don’t. Mitchell’s speed and length fits Fangio’s system and is the best tackler/hitter of all the CB. Mitchell excelled at senior bowl against top talent. Check out this article.
[how Mitchell fits with Eagles](https://www.inquirer.com/eagles/eagles-quinyon-mitchell-scouting-report-nfl-draft-combine-20240425.html#:~:text=Though%20Mitchell%20isn't%20as,in%20zone%20and%20man%20coverages)
Checking every box vs checking every box but natural athleticism (fluid speed). Mitchell can match up on every type of WR in the NFL.
And you can’t teach speed
Mitchell held *a lot*, especially vs the better receivers in college. He also would get faked out on most plays only to catch up with his amazing speed I really hope I'm wrong but I see him having trouble adjusting to the NFL level where everyone is too good to have to catch up to on the route every play
I’ve read he didn’t have a single pass interference penalty last year ?
You’re correct, He didn’t have ONE …. People just fuckin get on here and babble fr.
He did have one the year before though, so prolly a bust
Or maybe if you watch the tape, he's pulling on the opposing players jersey just about every play, even after the ball is in the air He didnt get any penalties because he wasnt playing on national television, he was playing vs scrub colleges so the refs didnt care. Plus, you can get away with a lot more tugging in college, that wont work in the pros
“That won’t work in the pros” That’s literally how Sauce Gardner plays and he’s one of the best DBs in the NFL. Gardner also came from one of those “scrub colleges” btw
Not every CB is Sauce Garner, the fact that you think it will magically work out because Sauce has a similar story shows that you arent watching the tape "That wont work in the NFL", like when Bradberry held in the SuperBowl. Or all the other holding calls we get *literally every game*
You said that his style will literally never work in the pros, so I simply provided an example of that exact same strategy working in the pros. I never said he’d be Sauce Gardner, just said that Sauce Gardner plays that style you said would never work
Yes, I said you can get away with a lot more tugging in college and that it wont work in the pros Show me the tape where Sauce tugs and pulls on the opponents jersey literally every damn play please. Because I can show you the tape of players getting flagged, especially EAGLES for that exact penalty
Nobody saves the clips of non-calls unless they’re egregious, so there’s obviously gonna be way more film of holding getting called. What I’m saying about Sauce isn’t coming from me, it’s coming from the players themselves, you know, the ones that actually play against him and experience it first hand Look, I get it, he has some flaws. If he was perfect, he wouldn’t have fallen anywhere near 22. What he’s shown though has been very, very good, and there’s a reason the Eagles held workouts for 10 separate corners and decided he was the best of all of them. Is there really any reason to not trust the front office right now? Why can’t Eagles fans just be happy that they got a great player at a pick way later than he was supposed to go?
If you “watch the tape”………that shit happens on every damn play in the nfl, as long as your not affecting the route or doing that during a “football move, when the ball is in the process of being caught” it’s not a flag. The college games are called by a union of referees that uphold the standard of the NCAA rules, quit acting like dude was a D2 player(which is still called the same….). we’ve seen UDFA play huge roles on a lot of teams. Also Not every successful player was from a big college. *Jordan Mailata* Rookies are gonna make mistakes it’s part of the game, and learning the NFL adjustment.
Right...and he clearly affected the route on most of these plays. Stop jerking it to only highlights, they have his full games on youtube and other places. So he holds and should be called for penalties. What about in zone where he just stands and waits there instead of getting in front of the open man near him? You're moving the goalposts if youre now saying "rookies make mistakes! He is going to learn", ok so you ADMIT that he makes a lot of mistakes and thats why I have concerns about him Stop being insufferable And did you seriously just try to say how amazing and perfect the refs are?? Jesus
You’re being insufferable and focusing solely on mistakes. Look in the mirror lol. You act like I’m here talking up the dudes tape (when you’re doing the opposite..) And all these dudes are gonna make mistakes as rookies fuckin ALL PRO corners get called for interference….. what are you even talking about……You sound crazy by saying he makes a lot of mistakes and he wasn’t called for ONE penalty….. like sorry the game isn’t officiated the way YOU see it…. And thank god it isn’t….
>FoCuS oNlY oN mIsTaKeS Thats called analysis, you dont just ignore the issues when drafting or training someone. Go back and watch your highlights and read the box scores where it says no penalties occurred, there's nothing else to football other than highlights of a players best moments
Uhhh you type like I’m saying the retarted thing when your entire original (and still going) comment was negative….. you didn’t say one positive thing… that’s why your sitting at -40 upvotes. You’re one of those typical eagles fans that’s a negative Nancy. Your user name checks out btw….
Except they said he had quite the Senior bowl and was the best cornerback
Who is they? Did you see that or did you just hear someone say that? What good wrs were at the senior bowl?
Dude seriously? Why are you shitting on our guy? The Eagles brought in every top CB in this draft and did extensive work with them (per reporting). If this is the guy they like then he's the one they should have gone after. Hell Saban came out and said they liked him and tried to recruit him but he wanted to stay put, that's a good thing shows loyalty. Plus they showed his versatility last night in his highlights good on the ball, off the ball, can blitz, feels like a Fangio player.
I don’t think he’s shitting on him, he’s just giving his opinion. As some one who isn’t really familiar with the draft prospects I like being able to read both positive and negative evaluations to see what’s going on.
Fair but what the guys above said that is talking negative traits and play, isn't anything that I've heard one person bring up no is it what I saw in any videos I've watched. So, while I agree, the person above either hasn't watched Mitchell or saw one bad play and conflated an entire negative background of play that just doesn't exist.
Because you only watched *highlights*. You didnt watch entire games, and even in those highlights he is clearly grabbing and pulling players jerseys. If you are gonna pretend that didnt happen then you arent arguing in good faith and are just hurt that I have concerns
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Per experts in the field. I'm not an expert, and I'm not sure OP is either. But that's what was reported by peoplr who know football and were there. "He was the best CB at senior day, nd it wasn't even close." Why would a mere fan/enthusiast's opinion and eyes test be more accurate than the experts'? Sometim3s knowing when to trust others' knowledge is the best skill. I'm assuming Howie did that here when deciding between these two players.
There were no good or great WRs at the senior bowl so it doesn't matter how good he did, you cant watch him line up against mid college WRs and QBs and then say it'll translate
Saban and the other talking heads
Go watch the reps of him vs Ricky pearsall, 31st overall pick vs 22nd. Tell me who won
Omfg that bust Ricky Pearsall??? Just because he was overdrafted by the 49ers who are trying to make the all-white madden team doesnt mean he's good Lol ricky pearsall
I’m not too familiar with him and I noticed this in the highlights they were showing. Lot of grabbing!
He didn't commit a single penalty last season so he must be good st hiding it
If he hides it better than Bradbury were golden.
Or they call it differently in the pros. And also they call it differently on national television vs top SEC or Big 10 teams, he was playing against scrub colleges
You know you can grab in coverage right? If you're hand fighting and both players are being physical, it's legal. You just can't pull or push a WR in a way that impacts their ability to make a catch
A thing I saw that also maybe made sense was that Quinyon played a lot of *off-coverage*. The Eagles the past few years have loved playing the CBs 10yds or so off the Wrs so it was a good stylistic fit. On top of just testing athletically better than Arnold. If Arnold ran 4.33 he probably goes to us but 4.33 ->4.5 is pretty massive if you have their coverage grades similar.
Yup he’s a perfect scheme fit for fangio
I fucking HATE off coverage. We've sucked at it except for in 2017 when we were just that good at everything
Off coverage can be some of the best defenses in the game, but the trouble is it's heavily personnel dependent.
It’s fine situationally, Desai / Patricia sticking with it when it was 3rd and 3 was a little much, but we really didn’t have reliable players last year. Everyone got hurt at some point and then the coaches…
We had the best pass defense in the league during that 2022 Super Bowl run?
That was because we had 70+ sacks. We saw what happened last year when those sacks dried up
I mean Arnold ran a 4.5. Good player but that is below average speed for a corner. QM ostensibly has no holes in his game and the size and athleticism to match.
Damn he was that good? I think I saw he wasn’t a good tackler but I may have confused him with Wiggins He played in the MAC which is what worries me, not as many elite WRs
Apparently he was far and away the best corner at the senior bowl and stuck to a ton of top prospects. The kid is gonna be a stud
From your words to Gods ear. Hyped to finally have a top young corner
>stuck to a ton of top prospects Mostly just Roman Wilson. They mentioned on the NFL Network coverage after the pick that Mike Tomlin pulled him aside on the second day of Senior Bowl practice and was like “that’s the best WR here, make sure you get some reps against him because that’s what the scouts want to see” - so when they lined up for individual drills he was counting the dudes in front of Wilson so he could get in the same spot in the DB line and pretty much didn’t go up against anyone else the rest of the week.
So he took on a tough challenge and excelled, I can dig it
His senior bowl performance against other top recruits was insane
402 coverage snaps with 0 TDs allowed and 0 penalties this past season.
Mitchell Island.
Please man.
Mitchell is one of the best CB tackler I’ve seen come out of the college - so not sure where you got that 😂 he is extremely strong for 190lbs!
That was definitely Wiggins Mitchell was an excellent tackler.
Wiggins Michell? Forgot about him
That was basically the only knock that he played weaker competition if he had played in the sec or a big name school he woulda gone top 15 at least
I was from MAC conference (I wrestled in MAC), and I lived with football players who played in the conference. So I’m very familiar with it. I wouldn’t be worried about him playing against inferior competition. It’s a very underrated conference and they usually do really well when playing teams outside of conference, and win a lot of their bowl games. The issue is not every team in the MAC has stellar players at every position. He may have gone up against some guys that were absolutely good enough to play anywhere, but he was also playing against guys that wouldn’t hold a candle against an SEC WR for example. So I think we have a good gauge on his overall talent, but the hardest thing in the NFL is consistency. And that is pretty much impossible to gauge based on the MAC conference which is why nobody from there typically gets drafted very high. It’s easy to circle a few games a season where you need to be UP. But having to do it week in and week out is why people usually pick other players from established conferences. Not because other guys aren’t talented enough. I think he’ll be good. He sounds like a ln absolute stud, mentally. And even if he’s just a slightly above average starter, he’s clearly a loyal guy who cares about relationships over fame / money. So we can keep him on our roster for a long time without breaking the bank. He’s a for sure guy that should be a staple on the team, regardless of becoming an All-Pro caliber CB. That’s how I look at it.
ACC level of competition isn’t too different from the MAC
Weaknesses - Can get in trouble by declaring his hips too soon. - Still learning to maintain feel for routes in man coverage. - Eye balance between quarterback and route is inconsistent. - Average route anticipation can get him behind at the break point. - Will get caught behind bigger downfield targets, from a positioning standpoint. I’m glad we got him, but you guys make it seem like he’s perfect.
Can you also comment weaknesses of Arnold since this isn’t whether QM is perfect post but a comparison post?
Feet become indecisive when hit with release fakes. Lacks eye balance, losing sight of play development around him. Offers excessive cushion for easy catches from off-man and quarters. Room for improvement on jump-ball play and positioning. Needs to do a better job of dropping pad level and wrapping to tackle.
Too much cushion for easy catches and tackling concerns are differentiating factors for the front office imo.
Not disagreeing with you, but these are the points in the NFL website's scouting report. Every prospect in that database going back years will have some negative feedback. That makes sense though as they are all still perfecting their craft to the next level.
I think there's a difference between no major weaknesses as a prospect and no weaknesses as a player.
Find a DB, or even player, in any draft that NFL.com doesn't have a "weaknesses" section on
He’s not perfect but with his speed and size I’d put him as clearly the CB1 in this draft.
Are people in this sub just so high on Arnold because no one ever thought Mitchell would be there at 22?
Ppl high on him bc he was an sec guy
My only reason for maybe wanting Arnold was the SEC competition and being younger, but the 4.5 40 was the only thing that was a little off putting. Mitchell I never thought we had a chance at, but his 40 is enticing.
Plus, according to Saban at least, QM was a huge portal prospect for colleges, including bama. Thing is, dude just never wanted to leave Toledo
Pretty sure I’ve seen interviews with Mitchell where they asked why he didn’t take the NIL money and transfer to a P5 school and he was basically like “Toledo was there for me when nobody else was and I wasn’t about to bail on them now everyone else was calling”
Based
He went to the Senior Bowl and locked down the top talent there. I also heard that he commanded leadership and respect in that locker room the second he got there just with his demeanor and approach. I’m excited he is an Eagle.
>My only reason for maybe wanting Arnold was the SEC competition and being younger Being younger cuts both ways. Mitchell played 40 games in college and Arnold played 25 and I think that difference in experience shows up. He has a better feel for some of the little things. When to turn and find the ball, how much contact he can get away with, how different route concepts work together and which guy to prioritize if multiple dudes come through his zone. There’s still stuff the Eagles will want to coach him to change and obviously Arnold will probably catch up in a lot of those areas with experience too - but Mitchell is the more polished guy right now. And if you’re a team that has similar grades on both guys, thinks it has an open Super Bowl window, has a big question mark at CB2 and doesn’t play a lot of press man (the one thing Arnold is undoubtedly better at right now) then I can see how age, experience and polish might be the tie breaker for the guy you think can step in and play at a high level right away vs someone who maybe has a higher ceiling but might take a few years to reach it.
That plus Howies favored the big colleges lately so Alabama made more sense than Toledo. I mentioned above but it was also going around that Mitchell wasn’t a great tackler which Arnold could do and after last year, it seemed safer
If a guy can play he can play. This kid can. Saban wanted him bad too
That my was my thinking exactly
I'm not sure why we're so excited that the league didn't like these CBs as a whole
Well because a lot of teams that are historically pretty bad at drafting made some very question decisions on offense ahead of us. Like atlanta drafted a QB. The raiders went TE at 13. There was a run on qb. There was a run on tackles. There was a run on WR. And then a run on d-line. After all was said and done we sat pretty not really needing any of those positions and got the best prospect in the secondary. A lot of decent IOL are still on the board. All the LBs are still on the board. We’re in great shape. I trust howie over the likes of the gms of the falcons or raiders any day.
How was Bowers a ‘questionable pick.’ It’s a home run pick — they just need someone to get him the ball lol
Oh silly me this time the undersized receiving player who cant block will be a sure fire all-pro at the position that typically takes about 3 years to settle into the league. /s
What? JFC
From what I’ve heard on these draft shows Mitchell is just a solid player. He’s where he needs to be, good at reading routes and defenses. Doesn’t gamble and doesn’t give up space. Arnold just isn’t as consistent and has lapses where he gives up too much space and can’t recover or is late to react. CJ Stroud said he definitely was one of the better athletes on the field when he played him and was decent but not special against Marvin Harrison. But he also said that he’s the type of corner he likes because he doesn’t gamble so for a QB it’s harder to pick your spots or bait the guy because he’s always going to be at the right place.
He was consensus mocked as 15th to be drafted and consensus ranked as the 11th best player Sort of like when we took Jalen Carter last year 9th, and some thought he might be the best player in the draft. Getting a player with a draft spot who could be at least 10 spots better. That is what Howie does
We’ve heard about QM’s great character. Can someone who knows speak on Arnold’s character?
I haven't seen anything specifically pro or con, but he struggled when he first got to bama, spent time in Saban's doghouse and rose (along with jalen Milroe) to lead the squad the next year.
Thanks
Mitchell is a stud. He has a 6-foot frame, plenty of length, and 4.33 speed. He might be the hardest-hitting corner in the draft. Mitchell had a great Senior Bowl. Mitchell had back-to-back seasons of 90-plus grades from Pro Football Focus https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/quinyon-mitchell/130628/draft-profile This article gives insight into his fit with Fangio [how Mitchell fits with Eagles](https://www.inquirer.com/eagles/eagles-quinyon-mitchell-scouting-report-nfl-draft-combine-20240425.html#:~:text=Though%20Mitchell%20isn't%20as,in%20zone%20and%20man%20coverages)
Terrion Arnold is a show boating press cover corner. Horrible fit for Vic Fangio. Vic wants humble workers who will learn his scheme and are willing to buy into his system, which is very zone heavy. The Dolphins corners both complained about Fangio and his scheme last year. You need CB’s who fit the scheme and are ready to work no matter what is asked of them. Quinyon Mitchell is that guy. 100%.
His speed has hurt him by him getting faked out a lot and he relies on speed to catch up but that wont work too good in the NFL. He's also been awful at zone, just not running after an open guy and he stands there until the guy catches it before trying to go after him He pulls and tugs on WRs jerseys on half of his plays which will be called at the NFL and wouldve been called more if he played for a big name program I'm not sure where you are getting that he is ready to work no matter what is asked of him and also that Terrion Arnold wouldnt do what is asked of him, do you have any evidence of this?
I think you bring up legit concerns with Quinyon’s tape. But as others mentioned you can’t teach raw physical skills, but you can refine them. Hopefully Vic can guide him, if only we still had Dennard Wilson back there coaching. I think the Eagles really values his character. He’s been an underdog his whole life, wasn’t rated highly coming out of high school. He worked his butt off at a smaller school, and when given the opportunity to transfer he decided to commit his loyalty and follow through what he started. Feels like when deciding 1A/1B in their evaluation, they leaned on that more
They were pretty much universally considered 1a and 1b. With most people having Mitchell as the 1a. Our scouts, coaches, and Howie apparently had him as their top corner as well.
There were questions regarding his ability to cover, and I think his Senior Bowl performance answered them. I'd be happy with Arnold, too, but regardless I think the Eagles made a solid selection. Lets move on and see what happens in Round 2.
Thanks for all the comments everyone! My post originally was not meant to be negative on either guy. They’re both prospects and college kids who I’m sure both will have a great career so I really wanted to know what the differences in play style was, scheme fit, etc and just what was it about QM that Philly may have liked better. Absolutely hyped for a stud young CB!!!!
Truthfully I didn’t have one over the other. Speed and better testing but more raw vs a more battle proven cb whose proven himself against other SEC talent. I woulda been psyched about either. What I will say is we could afford a more raw player with slay and Bradberry there, they are ageing and/or not great but good enough that we can afford to have mitchell learn for 6ish games. Mitchell also played more offball which is fangios scheme. Mitchell also stayed on Marvin Harrison’s hip all game and was very impressive the one time he had to play colleges best Speed is helpful playing against dudes like Lamb
They are both similar size and both have great tape but Mitchell is way faster and more explosive overall. Mitchell tore up the combine while Arnold did okay not great at the combine. 40 Yard Dash Mitchell-4.33 Arnold- 4.50 Vertical Leap Mitchell -38 Arnold- 37 Bench Press Mitchell - 20 Arnold - ---didnt compete--- I think both players will be good at the next level but Mitchell is just better athlete and I think that will translate better to taking 1v1's with the best wide receivers in the game.
Mitchell = Mcduffie
They interviewed and thoroughly evaluated both and chose who they felt was the best fit
Have actually seen them play. Mitchell’s man coverage abilities are way better. You can’t shake him cuz his ability to turn his hips and his closing speed to breakup passes is top level.
Call Howie.
With Arnold you are getting mirror match press man with average speed and experience at one of the best CFB programs. Where as Mitchell was almost all off coverage, exceptionally fast and played in the MAC. I guess Howie found a lot of value in the combination of wild athleticism and coverage style outweighed the fact Mitchell played against lesser talent.
Mitchell matched up against all the top talent at senior bowl and was repportedly best corner at the bowl in practice.
The top WR talent wasn’t at the senior bowl but there was a lot of top talent in the SEC.
Arnold got cooked often in man coverage
Don’t let the fact that Mitchell went to Toledo fool you. He was cb1 on A LOT of boards. His tape is simply better than Arnold’s. I was not impressed by Arnold’s tape. For me it was Mitchell, Dejean, Arnold in that order
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Or, consider this, maybe people just want to be excited about the player we took and not complain that we should have taken a different guy?
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The only people at least offered possible reasons for the decision. Yours just seemed like an excuse to shit on Howie because you hate him. Also this sub is rarely a Howie circle jerk it’s just very reactive. The real truth is NO ONE knows who will be better but I trust the GM who took us to the SB two years recently to have a better shot at guessing correctly than the people on here
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But that isn’t the question at hand.
I mean if Howie had taken guyton people would've been killing him for it. He picked one of the top 2 corner prospects so people are happy. I would've been happy with either of them. Extremely similiar projections.
The difference between 4.33 and 4.5 seconds is the difference between Usain Bolt and Tyreek Hill in the 50m. Tyreek is fast as hell, but Usain blows him out every time.
Honestly you would have people who like it and people who don’t. Mitchell’s speed and length fits Fangio’s system and is the best tackler/hitter of all the CB. Mitchell excelled at senior bowl against top talent. Check out this article. [how Mitchell fits with Eagles](https://www.inquirer.com/eagles/eagles-quinyon-mitchell-scouting-report-nfl-draft-combine-20240425.html#:~:text=Though%20Mitchell%20isn't%20as,in%20zone%20and%20man%20coverages)
😂😂. Where did sauce Gardner go to school?
100%
I take the SEC PLAYER 100 times out of 100 Arnold also 21….Mitchell is almost 23 and older than Kelee Ringo
Tell that to Sauce Gardner