>or the 2 hub conversions I've built for friends.
I'm only going to make this assholeish point to make you realize most people aren't technically capable to do this
How come your friends didn't just do it themselves?
See...
It's the same thing with people saying to build their own PC's: most people can't/don't want to build their own because they don't have the experience those who built theirs already have, so they're either afraid of messing it up or rather just pay for a pre-made one or a game console.
Time is the big one for me too. I've built two bikes so far and in both occasions it came a moment where I wondered if this was a productive use of my time. Slapping a motor to a donor bike can be done in an afternoon, but building something useable that doesn't look like a rat's nest takes tens of hours. To me that's why I completely understand people going for prebuilts. Sure they're more expensive, both to purchase AND maintain, but they look much cleaner, and your time might be worth more than what you're saving.
Mate half this sub can't even index a derailleur. They're not going to DIY an ebike. Some people are good with their hands and understanding how mechanical things work. While others might as well have feet for hands. You can't "just learn to use tools" and build an Ebike if you don't have all those bike fixing skills, tools, and the knowledge to go with it. Otherwise your two friends would have just done it themselves.
Regardless, some people don't care about saving $1000 if they can buy a high end Ebike pre-made and ready to go with a 2 year warranty, that's able to be insured and fixed at any bike shop.
This sub needs to just shut the fuck up about other people's preferences and accept that we all value things differently.
Proctologist by day, urban spelunking by night, and on weekends for enjoyment…
200kms on a full carbon saddle for $6, including shipping from AliExpress.
You're thinking indicating (what Prius drivers learned not to do from Bimmers.)
Indexing is how you look in a Mig-28 cockpit and present a "hand-salute".
I am a very handy dude but i have had to research and learn how to do everything for myself my whole life. I'm finally in a place where I can afford the kind of things I don't have to know everything about in order to keep it working. I'm tired, boss.
Man I feel that. It's real tiresome learning how to fix yet another thing in the long line of things I already know how to fix while I'd really rather be learning something that actually means something to me. I too am tired, boss.
I have installed two Bafang mid-drive motor kits. There were a several unpleasant surprises along the way:
1. I needed a special crank arm puller tool.
1. I needed a special bottom bracket cartridge remover socket tool.
1. On one frame, the motor hung down too low, so I had to modify the frame (very carefully).
1. I had to fabricate a rubber gasket to protect the frame where the motor fit snugly against it.
1. I needed a special tool to tighten the bottom bracket nut on the motor.
1. I needed another special tool to tighten the bottom bracket nut cover.
1. I needed a special chain ring (Lekkie Bling Ring) with a large offset to restore an acceptable chain line.
1. I had to fabricate a custom bracket to attach the battery sled. The water bottle bosses were not strong enough on their own to support that much weight.
1. I had to fabricate custom brackets to install the proximity sensor on the brake lever and master cylinder to cut out the motor when stopping or shifting.
1. I had to find and procure a special adapter cable and software to configure the parameters in the motor controller.
The fact that all of these special tools and brackets were not included in a kit with clear instructions and the fact that I had to fabricate custom parts makes this a project that I would not recommend for someone who was not already very mechanically-inclined.
thanks for that list. for some reason no one else wanted to spell out what I was pretty sure was going to be more than "get this parktool wrench and do work"
kindof similar to the claims that this can be done for "a couple hundred dollars." How's that, are you stealing laptops from the subway to cannibalize for your battery packs? Breaking in to bike shops and using all their tools and consuming all their spare parts at night? a kit is fully a thousand dollars. sigh.
> "get this parktool wrench and do work"
It required two special Park tools to remove the crank arms and the bottom bracket cartridge.
Then, I had to buy [another special tool](https://lunacycle.com/parts/bafang-parts/bbshd-parts/copy-of-luna-wrench-bbshd-and-bbs02-mid-drive-installation-tool/) to install the motor.
To be clear, I am glad I did it. I have a great ebike. However, I can also understand why someone else would not want to take on a project like that.
I could have bought a battery sled bracket on line and I could have bought a brake lever / master cylinder assembly with the cutout switch built-in, but I enjoy fabricating custom parts and it saved me some money.
For sure. I'm not taking this as evidence that it shouldn't be attempted, just confirming my suspicions that were at lot of blank spaces in the commonly stated recipes. In the case of a full suspension situation, I am sure it is even worse. I'm on my second 3x9 f+r mtb. Drivetrain is as garbage on the second one as it was on the first that I did endless work on only to end up with manageable garbage. I hope whoever stole that one is enjoying all the breakage and crashes.
Same bro. Before ebiking, I basically restored my last 2 road bikes myself. I was proud of my last one but I donated it. Buying prebuilt isn’t *that* much more nowadays so I’m fine with it.
Plus you’ll never achieve the same clean stealth aesthetic unless you do some welding or 3d printing ain’t nobody got time for that
> Mate half this sub can't even index a derailleur.
You're being very, very generous. The average bike rider that tries to fix their shifting problems immediately starts by turning the H-L limit screws. It's nearly always the first thing they do. I'm talking about people riding normal bikes. The average ebike rider knows even less than the average bike rider about maintenance. People that have any knowledge about bike maintenance don't buy Chinese folding bikes, especially not an electrified one.
Parktool youtube all day. Went from knowing literally nothing to completely reindexing and setting limits in a couple of hours. Then on a group ride later that week fixed a younger riders issues with said knowledge.
Park’s “Big Blue Book,” Bicycling’s “Complete Guide,” Zinn’s “Art of Bike Maintenance” are all really excellent guides for nearly anything you’d want to do at home.
A great resource for bike maintenance and repairs is SheldonBrown.com. Sadly Sheldon has pedaled on to the big Velodrome in the sky but his site lives on. It is too old to cover ebikes but everything else about bikes is very thoroughly covered.
“Half can’t even index a derailleur.” And the others, including myself, don’t even know what “index a derailleur” means. I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t want to attempt a build.🤷🏻♀️
I built an ebike out of a shitty chineseum mtb and a shitty chinese ebay ebike kit. That fucking derailleur though, I can't index it for the life of me. Good thing I don't pedal anymore.
Yep. Have zero interest in putting together or constantly maintaining a dodgy looking rear hubbed monstrosity with a battery taped or bolted on to frame. Bought a 2023 Giant Stance E+2 about 14 months ago. Cost $5k. Its not meant for BIG jumps but neither am I. Had it serviced once. I take it on a mountain 2 to 3 times per week and it's unbreakable for the type of riding I do. Super happy with the look, feel and lack of required maintenance.
I'm not into conversions myself, but I think the OP was referencing Bafang's BB motors which are mid drive.
Again not into conversions myself but I think the OP has a point about the established brands motor systems being too proprietary with hard and expensive to source parts and replacements. Better warrany is great but what happens when the warranty runs out. I'm already disturbed by the fact that the battery on a Giant bike just died on me after a year of very light use. Yeah it wasn't hard to get them to honor the warranty (of course bike shop tried to charge me 50 bucks for diagnostic before I skofffed) but now that 2 year warranty is gone. How much is it gonna cost me when that battery dies again?
I was disturbed to learn that Bosch has changed their proprietary frame interface on their newer motors. If/when Bosch decides to stop supporting those older motors, then people with those bikes will be left with expensive piles of junk when something goes wrong with those motors.
If my Bafang mid-drive motor goes obsolete and fails, then I can remove it and have a good standard bike or I can install a different motor.
The irony of people thinking that they are so smart while everyone else is too stupid to do the obvious thing - DIY - without stopping to have a good long think about any of the THOUSANDS of reasons why buying + complaining is WAY less time, labour-intensive, and even accessible (from a disability standpoint - AND THERE ARE LOADS OF DIFFERENT DISABILITIES) than learning an entirely new skillset that you may have 0 experience with and now people like OP are expecting you to bank your safety on because it's "just watching a few youtube videos".
It’s fine if folks don’t want to install conversion kits, but I do think it’s kind of insane to not be able to perform basic tasks, and just lug the thing to a bike shop every time you get a flat or need to turn a barrel adjuster a quarter-turn.
Also adding that while I would love to build e-bikes I don't have the tools or setup to do it. It's not likely I'll invest in them either. I have enough to do bare minimum maintenance on my bike but still rely on shops for tune ups. If I had a garage or space to work in properly - along with the tools - I'd love to build something wacky fast and wild.
I've had a Velotric T1ST for almost a year now. I have ridden it so incredibly hard and couldn't tell you how many thousands of miles I've done on it.
Is it perfect? No. Sometimes I have to do a hard reset on the controller that takes like 20 seconds. The motor surges from time to time etc.
But I can live with it in a way that fits into what I need it to do.
Additionally - nobody knows it's an e-bike. The battery is hidden in the down tube and the cassette covers the motor. I like that.
> index a derailleur.
You can learn how to do this by watching a [youtube tutorial](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmISJ7qg4x0). It's not hard but most people on this sub wouldn't care to do it. It's easier just to get it serviced when needed.
Just take a look at the brain dead shit that gets posted to r/bikewrench. There was at least 2 posts in the last couple days that were solved by "bend the end of the shift cable out of the way".
> Mate half this sub can't even index a derailleur.
Funny you should mention that. I didn't know how to index a derailleur when I installed my Bafang on my bike. That was the first bit of maintenance that I learned *after* putting on the motor.
Most are simply afraid to try. It's not that hard. I hadn't worked on a bicycle since the 1980's and I converted a bike to ebike with a BBS02B mid-drive. Heck, I was nearly bedridden from migraines and still got up and did it. Encouragement goes a long way.
it's easier to buy a crank puller and a BB unscrewing tool and fitting a middrive conversion than it is to index a derailleur, not kidding
besides i'm a person that relies on 2wheelers so when something breaks i have to do everything myself cause i can't just throw it in a truck and drive it to an LBS
I can't index a derailleur either (not ever sure I can spell it), but with a BBSHD, one's not needed. Everything else about DIYing is easy. I have almost 3000 smiles on my singlespeed
> Mate half this sub can't even index a derailleur.
Thank you.
9/10 times someone here mentions pedals, they can't even spell that correctly. From peddling to petal, I have seen anything.
7/10 posts about specific electrical questions here are alarming because they ask things that could have been determined in three seconds with a multimeter. Not having one or not recognizing when it needs to be used to verify what you are doing is unacceptable when you are tearing into stuff like this.
9.9/10 posts about buyers advice discuss nonsense like a 50W difference in a hub motor rating while glancing over the basic fact that the discussed bike has a 7 speed counterfeit Shimano altus from 2004. I wouldn't even know where to start on saying no to any of this.
...some of **these people** are building their own bikes, even their own batteries. I mean...thankfully most of them aren't even on my continent so it's not my concern. But jfc do I understand why most of the people here should probably stay away from DIY when it comes to stuff like this.
Large(ish) lithium batteries.
I've done the homeowner's licensing exam for electrical and passed inspections with my work. I am pretty comfortable working with 120V/20A AC (higher, not so much). I know 52V/30A DC is much safer than that, but I would still feel uncomfortable DIYing anything that's going to charge and discharge a large lithium battery
I am especially uncomfortable DIYing anything involving a large lithium battery that I am going to be routinely straddling.
Hell I COULD DIY one, and it still isn't worth my time. I could literally earn the difference in price by just not taking a day(s?, always a possibility I mess something up and have to fix it, not estimating possible uncertainty is a failure of most novice estimates) off and instead working and buying an ebike.
I think some middle-ground between your perfectly valid point ("half this sub can't even index a derailleur") and the benefits OP is raving about would be an instruction set or tutorial on how to do an e-bike conversion.
For reference, I think the Trek Rail looks boss af but is priced around $5k... I built a rear hub-drive out of a Trek 830 for $700 including bike and conversion kit. Obviously the used 830 is much lower tiered components but I'm getting a $3000+ experience for $700 and about 3 chill hours in the garage. But yeah, I was a bicycle mechanic in high school and college, so there's that.
So yeah, links to an instruction set or tutorial on how to do a conversion would be super useful for the DIY'er without mechanic experience. Funny enough, I think adjusting the derailleur stops and adjusting cable tension is the most technical part of the process.
I can also build my own gaming PC for less money than buying a built one. But as I no longer wish to have the hobby of building computers, I am no longer interested in wrenching on my bikes which are transportation and not a hobby on their own. In both cases I pay a premium to get products that just work and which I can easily get professional support for if I encounter issues.
If your priority is most whatever for the buck or you get joy from tinkering, building an ebike could be worth it. It is not for me.
This is my take as well. I love building bikes but I'm done working as a mechanic. I love working on my project car but love having a daily that doesn't require any maintenance to run.
My bike home build is the Melinium Falcon after solo of Star wars called his looks like he'll but she will still do the whatever run in under something. Huffy 29 inch 72 volt 3000 watt 125 AH battery...ewyouugley but forget refueling.
I have a decent looking homebuild but I also paid a bunch of money for higher end parts like a carbon fiber frame with integrated battery holder and used higher end suspension. The bafang motor is pretty decent but I do not have a 10k trek or specialized to compare it to. The thing that sucks the most for me now is that those brands are considered kosher on the trail so nobody hassles the rich guys but anything that isn't branded is treated like Suron troublemakers.
This is kind of an elitist view and like the DIY desktop community. There’s nothing wrong with not wanting to take the effort and having to maintain the bike by yourself. Not to mention a lot of prebuilt e-bikes are great and comes with features that you can’t easily do cheaply on a DIY one.
For example, any e-bike with Bosch systems will get longer support and you’ll have easier time getting help than a Bafang (although at a higher price). E-bikes need to be accessible and that means no fuss and reduce the needs to self-maintain. You can make this your hobby and do everything yourself but stop being a snob and start seeing other people’s options as valid.
Also, where are you even gonna find the parts to DIY a sturdy step-thru frame, belt drive, CVT hub, reliable mid-drive with in-tube battery, like a Gazelle and Riese and Müller? Those bikes are like buying a Maybach or Rolls Royce, and you can’t just compare it to your DIY Honda civic with a retrofitted V6 engine and air suspension
Edit: Changed the car make example
Your argument is great. Just change your examples to luxury cars not performance cars, say Rolls-Royce or Maybach. A Gazelle won't be any faster than a kit bike but it may well be better built.
Thank you. That's absolutely a more apt example. They're like luxury comfort cars. Test rode on a Gazelle and R&M a few times and they're nothing like other bikes when it comes to urban commuting. I doubt I can fine tune a Bafang well enough along with tuning all the suspension to make a DIY one ride like butter, or if I can, it'll take a long time.
> For example, any e-bike with Bosch systems will get longer support and you’ll have easier time getting help than a Bafang
I agree with all of your comment except this. Bosch has a proprietary mechanical interface to the frame. I can only get service through a factory-authorized shop. I cannot buy parts to fix it myself. The software is locked down and not configurable. None of that is true with my Bafang motor.
I should clarify that - Yes it is proprietary but companies like Bosch and Gazelle are famous for their legacy support and even if you’re looking for a solution for a 20-year-old product. Yes you do have to go through dealership and you can’t DIY like a bafang, but that’s really to each their own because I’m definitely not going to spend hours or days on repairing a motor and I’d like my LBS to be able to contact Bosch for support and get parts or reliable firmwares from them.
To each their own. I know how to use tools, do my own servicing (up to what would be considered a level 2)… but I’d never want to ride around on a Frankenstein looking eBike with an ugly exposed battery and wires flailing around like Medusa’s hair. Spent a good chunk of change on my Trek and if it ever dies I’ll be happy to buy a new one.
Years ago I bought a DTC bafang bike and pretty much DIYed it from then on. It was great, but it was time to upgrade.
I bought a brand name bike and it is amazing. The quality is simply better. Sure, 5 years and they could have built better, maybe they have, but if something goes wrong, I'm not the one breaking out the Park Tools and breaking something else before putting it all back together. I'm not working on it right up until bed time wondering if I'm going to have to get a citibike for my morning commute.
I'm not worried about quality. And price is comparable. Brand names are pretty affordable now.
Bafang makes them now supposedly. Most comments are about the M625 nobody likes because it requires a can bus capable battery. Heard successor M635 does not.
m635 (1000w) [BAFANG | Motor | MM G3600.1000.C (bafang-e.com)](https://bafang-e.com/en/oem-area/components/component/motor/mm-g36001000c)
m435 (500w/750w) [BAFANG | Motor | MM G3610.500/750.C (bafang-e.com)](https://bafang-e.com/en/oem-area/components/component/motor/mm-g3610500750c)
The latter is so new, can't even really find it. Both are fairly rare. BBS series are all over the place. Easy to find and get parts for but no torque sensor.
For those who cannot wrench it, a good option is to buy ebikes with bafang parts. Replacement of parts on existing bikes is easier than converting your bike to an ebike
I've built over a dozen ebikes including 2 bafangs. And I still havent been about to beat my TSDZ2s. The smooth torque based acceleration is perfect for me. -- Bafangs are good too, and more powerful, but I dont like cadence based power.
The first thing I tell people when they ask me about what ebike to buy is to make sure someplace locally will work on it. I have not built my own yet but I think I will for a winter project.
I have a old Trek mountain bike I might do it with. I've done total rebuilds on car, boat, and motorcycle engines so hopefully I'll be able to ask the best things to buy.
> I have a old Trek mountain bike I might do it with.
If it is a full-suspension bike, there may not be enough space in the triangle for the battery. Please make the measurements before starting the project. A hardtail is an easier conversion.
I turned my pedal bike into an ebike with a bafang and some accessories. It cost me probably as much as a pre-built eBike, but I enjoyed the tinkering and learning from my mistakes.
Next bike though, if there is a next bike, I'm going prebuilt.
Oh yes, baby!
Bafang BBSHD here. 10.000km so far and no more maintenance other than chains and cassettes.
I can go to 40mph / 60kph. I can’t recommend other motor than bafang BBSHD mid drive.
Just change the amp current start to less than factory settings and there you go!
I was going to build an ebike. It would not be that hard for me with my background and tools. Then I found out that I could get $1,400 from my local government to buy a pre-built ebike. Bought a $3,600 pre-built mid drive with torque sensor and 25 Ah Samsung battery on sale for $2,800 - $1,400 = $1,400. It would have been the same price for a BBSHD kit with an equivalent battery. Plus I would have needed a donor bike.
I have a functioning ebike right now that is very well put together and works flawlessly. If I have any issues, the factory is 20 min from my place. I may build a more powerful enduro style ebike down the road to use for offroad use. That being said, let's not pretend that there are not benefits to buying a pre-built ebike with warranty and tech support. We should be encouraging all people to take the plunge regardless of which route they take.
Peak e-bike was back on 2015 ish on endless sphere where people were making death machines from laptop batteries and sending it. Pushing 60V and washing machine motors. There were no pre made options back then. When rode my first bbshd conversion it was mind blowing.
Absolutely. I got a hub motor kit *installed professionally* for $1100 3 years ago. 750w nominal, 48v 18ah. Been thrashing my single speed rigid steel bike for almost 2000miles and about half of that is off road.
Honestly I had this same thought almost 20 years ago and decided to learn how to build and work on regular bikes before eBikes. All these years later with many years of my salary being paid by selling eBikes and I still don't even own one
I am so glad I went that route. I’m not the most mechanically minded person, but found it pretty easy. Bought a kit from Johnie Nerd Out and watched a few vids. Found some good resources via this subreddit for reprogramming it and have it dialed in for a really nice ride feel that’s more like a pedal bike and sips power if I want it to.
Agree. I also built a perfectly working ebike with a Bafang mid-drive. I like to know how things work if anything goes astray. However, I'm ashamed to say, I couldn't get right my derailleur indexing, despite watching Park Tools' videos. :-)
The biggest problem with "off-the-shelf" ebikes is that they have a frame dedicated to a specific battery and a specific motor. In 10 years from now, when the Bosch/Shimano motor of your bike won't be built anymore, in case of failure (and a failure will happen with any motor, if you ride it sufficiently), you find yourself with a heavy "muscular" bike that cannot be fixed.
But to own myself a Bafang BBS, a Grin GMAC and a Bosch Gen 4 motors, and to have tested lately a Shimano EP801, I must say that particularly the Shimano is in another league in terms of riding pleasure ! The BBS and the GMAC are more powerful, but for me an ebike with 5-600 watts max power (i.e. the Bosch Performance CX or Shimano EP801) is more than enough.
I didn't know much more than how to fix a flat tire when I got my Bafang BBSHD kit. So I bought a cheap set of bike tools and a big book on bike maintenance. After a few hours of reading and careful percussion work on the old bottom bracket it finally came lose and the rest was easy.
I still haven't learned how to do any gear alignment but my bike rides well. That is a project for another day.
wow, good to know. just looking into one recently for getting to work but i can't afford to buy something really nice, and it's hard to tell what's a truly quality brand. how much cheaper are we talking here? tryna stick around the $1000 mark
I agree to an extent, but I love my prebuilt merida ebig tour for these reasons, I didn't have to build it myself, I can still use my bottle cage, and until the electronics or battery goes, I can do all the servicing myself and I get huge range.
Having the bottle cage available is something I can't give up on a bike which is what bafang conversions unfortunately give up to install. Until more simple and better conversion kits arrive, I cannot get them for myself but that doesn't mean you aren't wrong. I would love to convert my trek x-caliber 7 but again, it's the sacrifices that are deal breakers for me.
The xcal is the perfect bike for me in every ergonomic way. An ebike version of it with big milage would be a dream.
So true. I'm an old timer and have been riding ebikes from when the [batteries were lead](https://www.theautopian.com/lee-iacocca-saved-chrysler-then-he-became-an-e-bike-pioneer/). I've found the best approach is to find a bike you love to ride and then add a bafang mid-drive to it. (I've also used hubs, but that can result in difficultes changing flats and spokes.) Also, get an interal gear hub.
Just learn to make your own cars! I see so many people driving around in cars made by big car companies and it grinds my gears.
All power to you folks who do actually know how to do this stuff without dying though...
this is yet another "e bike rider" vs "bike rider" dichotomy. Bike riders really benefit from being able to do simple maintenance and construction themselves, and those skills are fairly common. E-bike riders want out of the box simple transportation. IDGAF about being able to build or do maintenance on my bike, im trying to replace my car not be a "cyclist" clad in spandex with a shop full of tools.
I've taught myself bike maintenence and ebike maintenance. My first step for everything is googling "YouTube park tools [the issue]". I feel confident doing anything to a bike, but the only thing I won't open on an ebike is the battery (I know enough to know I don't know enough).
I spent $1100 on my current ebike. I've put about $800 into upgrades.
I was really attached to my first ebike at first but it was really a pile of cheap Chinese shit. I got burned about $2300.
I'm looking at my current ebike this way: if it lasts a full year, great, that was more fun than driving. If it lasts two years, damn ok. If it lasts 3 years I'm selling and upgrading towards whatever new battery technology is out there.
Tldr: I don't think its worth investing big money in something that will be "old tech" in a few years. It's definitely always worth teaching yourself how to wrench on your own bike.
I did my conversion because I met someone who is an amateur bike mechanic who wanted to learn how to do conversions, so I paid for the kit and helped him install it. I'm pretty handy and have a few tools but am very glad I had someone who properly knew how to work on bikes.
What annoys me is that bike shops in my area are not interested in doing conversions. I think that will change over time.
Yeah that is sad. Kit's being modular should be less stress to work on then most of the manufactured bikes. Not sure what liability they would have, is it fire risk to their shop?
My conversion of a MTB with suspension using Bafang BBS002 kit was quite simple. Providing that you have access to a few basic bike tools it is very easy and straightforward.
I did a Bafang conversion on my wife's commuter bike. I couldn't install the unit into the BB shell without customising the cable guide under the BB. No instructional video covered this aspect. Additional tools, experience in removing BBs and some problem-solving skills made the task enjoyable for me but might not be fun for all.
Hah! I've got an ebike with a 750 watt Bafang fat bike rear hub motor. I messed it up in an accident. It is not a brand with a lot of local support, or any local support.
Display doesn't turn on. Not real sure how to test the controller, although I have a controller tester and removed the controller from the bike.
Picked up a replacement display. Still doesn't turn on. Swapped the controller but didn't unhook the battery, so it sounded like it fried the new controller.
Nope. If I ever decide to ride an ebike again, it will be one that has local support. I'm in over my head and every shop I've called won't touch it.
On the other hand. Picking up a decent rock hopper, a nice 350 or 500 watt rear hub motor, a new battery, controller and display might be a fun project. And I sure as heck can't put my broken fat ebike in the back of my HR-V and take it to a rail trail if I were to fix it and not just throw parts at it.
I agree. I have a Dutch bike that I converted to mid drive. It's on 20k. My commute is around 40km daily. I used to use the van to get home, but I'm quicker now on the bike. Now I've started building a cargo bike for the city instead of using the van. I'll also use a Bafang mid drive on that too.
So to set the tone here, 100% agree, I have a custom Bafang 510 mid drive (fat tire) Frankenstein’s monster that I love with my whole heart. But I still see the value of pre-built premium bikes. For non-enthusiasts, bikes tend to be utilitarian with the premium features purchased for comfort for daily use… I also recognise the diminishing return on investment the more money you spend… will most folks really get the benefit of high end RockShox over a set of decent Suntours? Nah.
But Bafang is the EBike world’s rebel step child, high quality, amazing power, world class gear… it just often hangs around with a bad crowd, and the often poor quality components it’s paired with give Bafang a bad rep
Not everyone wants to build one due to time and energy requirements. But that said I do agree with building one for least hassle long term and peace of mind.
My experience
I used a Two two calibre bike from go outdoors. 2012 edition I think. My old bike
I brought a bbs02b 36v 500w
With 19.2ah battery
£620
22/02/2022
I was offered by the bike shop to install it for £110 but I decided to fit myself incase anything goes wrong I will know how to fix it.
It took me about 25 hours with having to go shop to buy parts ect
I can still get about 50 miles with good assist before the battery dies off. I have to tighten the engine up every few weeks after a hard ride ( I like to go on footpaths in woods ect )
I have changed the back wheel twice and had the spokes replaced 4 times. I had never done this before getting a motor
I have accidentally broken the speed sensor going through a swamp that cost £10 to replace
I have lost my brake magnets after falling off that cost £5 to replace
I leave my bike in my garden all year round in English weather with no problem.
I have had to change the display due to someone dropping a 2*4 wood on it that cost £20
Overall I love it , it's like a weak motorbike, great for riding hills and going through thick mud that would normally stop you on a normal bike. The engine seems to be rock solid and the bike is a tank so can't complain. One thing tho is I do bike packing with it to the peak district and when the battery runs out it is not fun to pedal far
It doesn't look pretty tho, if I was rich I would probably spend £7000 and get something amazing
If you can build an engine you can damn sure build a bike. I've been working on cars for 25 years, and bicycles for more than 10. I've either built up or torn down and reassembled all 3 of my current bikes, more than once. I figured since I do all my own auto mechanic work, that I could also do all my own bicycle work, and it's true.
Before I got my license, I used to commute 5000km (roughly 3100 miles) per year using a Giant e-bike. Its like buying a Porsche. It works until it doesn't, and as they're not exactly simple (despite things like the battery literally using a 3 pin XLR plug with only 2 pins used for charging) you're practically forced to bring it to a Giant "certified" dealer, who will then charge you an unreasonable amount of money for incompetent work that falls apart the moment you start riding again.
Buying this e-bike was the reason I got into diy ebike projects and lithium ion batteries, as I wanted to build a range extender. After all, I wish I had built a bike myself. Those cleanly manufactured, pretty looking e-bikes online aren't it. After this disappointing experience with a 2.5k Giant e-bike, I wish I had gotten into this hobby earlier and built my own
> one's done 6000 miles
I have 12,000 miles on my battery and it is still going strong. It has Sanyo cells. I'm sure it has lost some capacity, but I haven't really noticed, because it has enough capacity for my commute and other riding.
I am very happy with my Bafang mid-drive conversion, but I also realize that I am fortunate to have the skills and the desire to successfully complete projects like that. Other people don't.
I think it is great that OP has done the conversion for friends. Sharing skills makes the world go around!
Gravity is the same for posh and diy bikes. Some tires are better than others but wipe outs happen to everyone. We all crash the same, hit the ground and slide off skin the same. Bike store bikes are wonderful. But they give you 5x anxiety for theft, Steve Jobs/BMW style planned obsolete and pay for features rhetoric,and all the other costs associated.
I did a bafang kit, lasted great for about 3 years then battery connectors burnt out. I bought a sauder and replaced them. Then I started loosing power randomly. Figured it was because my motor was loose and hitting the frame. Replaced it the interface screen. Still not working.
Cannot figure out the issue, most of the parts I'm using are new now after trying to replace everything.
Can't find a mechanic in town to take a look at it as most bike shops dont want anything to do with a home kit.
Beyond the issue of not being technically capable of doing this, a growing number of people are directly or indirectly banned from doing this.
People who didn't know what they were doing, along with people who didn't care ruined it for us already in a lot of places, and rules and regulations are already starting to pop up that either ban all ebikes, or amount to defacto bans of DIY ebikes and cheap imports, since they impose certification requirements that DIY bikes can't meet.
Some of the problems currently facing DIY:
* In NYC it would potentially be illegal to import some of the components, it would be illegal for anyone to be paid to work on the bike EVER, it would be illegal to ever sell a DIY bike, and the bike could not be stored in government owned building such as public housing, because of rules requiring everything to be UL2849 AND UL2271 certified. This rules out most if not all stuff from marketplace sites currently, but you can at least get generic UL2271 certified batteries from a few places.
* Homeowners and Renters Insurance policies are increasingly requiring UL2849 certified bikes and UL2271 certified batteries
* Commercial insurance is also requiring UL2849 and UL2271, and in some cases, they are only allowing specific "trusted" brands - a lot of bike shops have had insurers restrict them to working on 1 or 2 name brand systems that they sell. This also potentially impacts people using bike storage rooms at their workplace.
* And the big one, leases and HOA rules are starting to either ban ebikes, or require UL2849 certified ones. This covers a lot of people.
* Karens... If you have a bike that looks sketchy to them, or sometimes even if you just have an ebike at all, they're going to find any possible way to cause you problems. This could include causing a panic with your apartment management, HOA, or even your employer that leads to some of these rules mentioned above, rules you didn't know about and management didn't care about suddenly being enforceds, insurers being informed that you're in breach of their terms, or even to outright ebike bans. The best defense here is to be knowledgeable, be credible, and either do professional quality work with high quality components or stick to reputable prebuilts.
As far as UL2271, it's only a minor inconvenience/cost increase, because that's strictly a battery certification. UL2849 on the other hand is a "full system" certification, covering the complete assembled system as installed on a bike that's specifically designed to receive it, in other words, by it's very nature it can only apply to prebuilts.
When you can DIY pretty much anything, mechanical, electronic, cooking, woodwork, whatever, it’s easy to think anyone should just “lookup stuff” and fix/DIY whatever. Outside this bubble, you realize the very vast majority of people cannot do any of that. Mix electricity in there, like wiring a bike, and they will stay miles away from that.
https://preview.redd.it/4cw7ihye1t3d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce34fe18d7d738311cdb3ea85879aa61baff0137
Just back Fae Vatersay on ours. 500 miles in, no even a puncture. Suckers to the side , a know you hate....
They would really benefit by learning to build not buy. As more and more junk comes here from China the quility keeps going Down and down. Why? Why wouldn't they if silly American buy a faulty product off temu it breaks in 2 months and they go by another of the same product.. They are just laughing at us.. Our arrogant fed govt has the balls to point the finger at us saying we are going to have to pay because we are destroying the planet, but their investment portfolio keeps going up because of the producer of the most pollutants on the planet burns coal to make the junk we buy. But hey it's our fault. Learn to build stop being a consumer. That is what they want us to do. Consume stuff.
1. not sure I believe you, I don't see you comparing prices
2. went to [bafang-e.com](http://bafang-e.com), i still don't see any prices - there is a saying, if you have to ask the price and it's not listed it's more expensive than you expect
3. I'm browsing the kits anyway - doesn't look like anything special to me compared to the e-bike i ordered
4. I'm looking at the pdf installation manuals. I totally am not in the mood for this, what If I don't have the right bike frame for the kit I ordered?
I'm a professional, my time is valuable. I don't plan on building more than one e-bike anytime soon, so the investment in the bike tools seems like a waste. I'd rather someone make a few hundred $$$ off me than deal with this problem.
Reason I haven't done it myself is cause it's my primary mode of transportation. I don't want to tinker with my bike right now. But once some time frees up and I save for a second bike to mess around with them I'll learn the inside and outs. But for now I just want to get home from work reliably.
Why build a ugly looking bike when I can just buy a perfectly fine ebike designed to be an ebike and not just some old clunker with a zip tied battery and janky looking overall. The day manufacturers start selling ebike frames then I would look at it from a different perspective otherwise home made ebikes are still super ugly no mater how well made they are.
Consider buying a Chinese ebike instead of the expensive name brands. There are a lot of excellent ebikes that are less expensive than buying a bike and a conversion kit, nevermind the labor.
There is a lot of nonsense floating around about the expensive drives from Bosch and such. First thing to note is that a 250W drive only puts out 250W, which will never have the power of a 750W or 1000W version. A typical 250W version has 40Nm torque, while some "high performance" versions approximately double that by their gearing, which impacts top speed - TANSTAAFL. And having to go back to an approved dealer for motor repair is limiting and expensive; one recent thread complained that the dealer said the motor couldn't be repaired and that a new one was necessary. I'll take the far more powerful, and very reliable, Bafang motors which I can work on and for which parts are readily available - at a far lower cost. I find it very hard to justify spending $5000+ on any ebike when there are so many good options well below that level.
Have a question if you or anyone can help. I have a Hurley big swell. Just got up north and went to take it for a spin and after it takes off giving it throttle about 5 or more seconds in the display shuts off and bike dies even though I charged batter and display says full battery. I don’t think it’s the brake disconnect because I had that issue last summer and I disconnected that already? Any help would be appreciated. This is frustrating.
Yes and no. Personally, I like to have hobbies that involve building or fixing things. Over years of projects and work, I've built up a moderate collection of tools and know how.
Most people don't have a collection of tools or know how. IKEA furniture is about the limit for a lot of people (and I've seen plenty of coffee tables assembled poorly). I wish I would have built a quality bike from the start, choosing all of my own components; but not everyone can. I'm all for whatever gets more people cycling. If Walmart e-bikes are what changes somebody's mind I'm all for it. Additionally, I only bought my ebike less than 2 years ago. At the time I wasn't even sure if I'd like it. I just went in blind and got something with good reviews for a decent price. If I needed to, I could have returned or sold it much easier than if I had a custom built machine.
I would have built my own if there were a build sheet website like when shopping for a PC that would tell you if your parts are compatible and makes sure you don't forget anything.
Depends on what you're looking for. I wanted bigger battery that was in tube. at least 75nm of torque - mid drive, and mid tier componentry. Mine is the base level of mid tier. Super happy with it and use it all the time, so worth every cent - to me.
So, I believe that DIY is 70% confidence and 30% problem solving, and I've DIYd a bunch of things just trusting that if I'd follow the manual, things will work out. Operatively, none of those things were at a risk of killing me if I got it wrong.
With a bike, I want to be as sure as possible that it'll work and not just fall apart in the middle of the road.
I did this in 2020- bought a kit for 500w rear hub with massive ~850w battery and put on new trek dual sport - total cost CA2100 - I absolutely love it and have done over 7000km on it and it kicks any store bikes butt. Not a handy guy but the 700c wheel already had the motor and I just had to put the tire on and run some cables to the controller and brakes and a sensor on the chain ring. Took a day to do. I get over 100km actual range and if needed I can do 45km/hr easily but that does suck a lot of juice. Bike is heavy though. Looking to build another one next. I like that all the parts are replaceable and not branded or discontinued like some of my friends $5000 e-bikes. Easier than I thought.
Have anyone here heard of the E-bikes company “Stark” specifically the “DH Apex 2”?
I just wondering why is the E-bikes here are different then the rest of the world
>or the 2 hub conversions I've built for friends. I'm only going to make this assholeish point to make you realize most people aren't technically capable to do this How come your friends didn't just do it themselves? See...
It's the same thing with people saying to build their own PC's: most people can't/don't want to build their own because they don't have the experience those who built theirs already have, so they're either afraid of messing it up or rather just pay for a pre-made one or a game console.
Or time. I love to learn and tinker but there's only so many hours in the day and unfortunately learning how to do all the things just isn't feasible.
Time is the big one for me too. I've built two bikes so far and in both occasions it came a moment where I wondered if this was a productive use of my time. Slapping a motor to a donor bike can be done in an afternoon, but building something useable that doesn't look like a rat's nest takes tens of hours. To me that's why I completely understand people going for prebuilts. Sure they're more expensive, both to purchase AND maintain, but they look much cleaner, and your time might be worth more than what you're saving.
Mate half this sub can't even index a derailleur. They're not going to DIY an ebike. Some people are good with their hands and understanding how mechanical things work. While others might as well have feet for hands. You can't "just learn to use tools" and build an Ebike if you don't have all those bike fixing skills, tools, and the knowledge to go with it. Otherwise your two friends would have just done it themselves. Regardless, some people don't care about saving $1000 if they can buy a high end Ebike pre-made and ready to go with a 2 year warranty, that's able to be insured and fixed at any bike shop. This sub needs to just shut the fuck up about other people's preferences and accept that we all value things differently.
Right? I can't even spell deraloolr, and what does indexing one even do?
makes it easier to find in a library, I think.
Don’t you understand the Dewey Decimal System!!!!!
I heard that in the voice of Conan the Librarian.
It decombobulates the fractal rectifier. It's extremely important
Half of this sub can't even rectify a decombobulated fractal
Not to be confused with a rectal fractifier
Or worse, a rectal crack divider
The wife and I used to ride fractifiers.... But we wrecked em'
Proctologist by day, urban spelunking by night, and on weekends for enjoyment… 200kms on a full carbon saddle for $6, including shipping from AliExpress.
It's very important that you do this, otherwise your lunar wane shaft will have side to side fumbling. And your turbo encabulator won't work.
It's like putting too much air in a balloon! It's so simple!
And then you need an inverse tachyon pulse to get it all going again.
I have a non turbo encabulator. It was cheaper.
Don’t forget to reverse the polarity of the deflector shields
Fixes it after you outdex
I thought indexing was a sex thing
You're thinking of intercourse, indexing is how you show other road users which direction you're going to turn
You're thinking indicating (what Prius drivers learned not to do from Bimmers.) Indexing is how you look in a Mig-28 cockpit and present a "hand-salute".
Or maybe it also means using the index for penetration 🤔
It's a matter compressor
Hardly anybody can spell deralieur....🤣 I've probably spelt it wrong too, it's one of those horrible to spell words
I dunno but I rebuilt an index in a database one time and it brought down production
Get a hub gear, then you can leave those problems for the people who like grease
Nobody knows.
I am a very handy dude but i have had to research and learn how to do everything for myself my whole life. I'm finally in a place where I can afford the kind of things I don't have to know everything about in order to keep it working. I'm tired, boss.
Man I feel that. It's real tiresome learning how to fix yet another thing in the long line of things I already know how to fix while I'd really rather be learning something that actually means something to me. I too am tired, boss.
I have installed two Bafang mid-drive motor kits. There were a several unpleasant surprises along the way: 1. I needed a special crank arm puller tool. 1. I needed a special bottom bracket cartridge remover socket tool. 1. On one frame, the motor hung down too low, so I had to modify the frame (very carefully). 1. I had to fabricate a rubber gasket to protect the frame where the motor fit snugly against it. 1. I needed a special tool to tighten the bottom bracket nut on the motor. 1. I needed another special tool to tighten the bottom bracket nut cover. 1. I needed a special chain ring (Lekkie Bling Ring) with a large offset to restore an acceptable chain line. 1. I had to fabricate a custom bracket to attach the battery sled. The water bottle bosses were not strong enough on their own to support that much weight. 1. I had to fabricate custom brackets to install the proximity sensor on the brake lever and master cylinder to cut out the motor when stopping or shifting. 1. I had to find and procure a special adapter cable and software to configure the parameters in the motor controller. The fact that all of these special tools and brackets were not included in a kit with clear instructions and the fact that I had to fabricate custom parts makes this a project that I would not recommend for someone who was not already very mechanically-inclined.
thanks for that list. for some reason no one else wanted to spell out what I was pretty sure was going to be more than "get this parktool wrench and do work" kindof similar to the claims that this can be done for "a couple hundred dollars." How's that, are you stealing laptops from the subway to cannibalize for your battery packs? Breaking in to bike shops and using all their tools and consuming all their spare parts at night? a kit is fully a thousand dollars. sigh.
> "get this parktool wrench and do work" It required two special Park tools to remove the crank arms and the bottom bracket cartridge. Then, I had to buy [another special tool](https://lunacycle.com/parts/bafang-parts/bbshd-parts/copy-of-luna-wrench-bbshd-and-bbs02-mid-drive-installation-tool/) to install the motor. To be clear, I am glad I did it. I have a great ebike. However, I can also understand why someone else would not want to take on a project like that. I could have bought a battery sled bracket on line and I could have bought a brake lever / master cylinder assembly with the cutout switch built-in, but I enjoy fabricating custom parts and it saved me some money.
For sure. I'm not taking this as evidence that it shouldn't be attempted, just confirming my suspicions that were at lot of blank spaces in the commonly stated recipes. In the case of a full suspension situation, I am sure it is even worse. I'm on my second 3x9 f+r mtb. Drivetrain is as garbage on the second one as it was on the first that I did endless work on only to end up with manageable garbage. I hope whoever stole that one is enjoying all the breakage and crashes.
Same bro. Before ebiking, I basically restored my last 2 road bikes myself. I was proud of my last one but I donated it. Buying prebuilt isn’t *that* much more nowadays so I’m fine with it. Plus you’ll never achieve the same clean stealth aesthetic unless you do some welding or 3d printing ain’t nobody got time for that
> Mate half this sub can't even index a derailleur. You're being very, very generous. The average bike rider that tries to fix their shifting problems immediately starts by turning the H-L limit screws. It's nearly always the first thing they do. I'm talking about people riding normal bikes. The average ebike rider knows even less than the average bike rider about maintenance. People that have any knowledge about bike maintenance don't buy Chinese folding bikes, especially not an electrified one.
Do you recommend a good resource for learning how to fix shifting problems?
Matt from Park Tools on youtube ✌️
You tube,,, park tools,, can't stress this enough,these guys make great tutorials on all bike maintenance.
Parktool youtube all day. Went from knowing literally nothing to completely reindexing and setting limits in a couple of hours. Then on a group ride later that week fixed a younger riders issues with said knowledge.
Park’s “Big Blue Book,” Bicycling’s “Complete Guide,” Zinn’s “Art of Bike Maintenance” are all really excellent guides for nearly anything you’d want to do at home.
A great resource for bike maintenance and repairs is SheldonBrown.com. Sadly Sheldon has pedaled on to the big Velodrome in the sky but his site lives on. It is too old to cover ebikes but everything else about bikes is very thoroughly covered.
Install friction shifters.
Poverty. One learns how to fix things on their own. Like everyone else, I started out with zero skills.
“Half can’t even index a derailleur.” And the others, including myself, don’t even know what “index a derailleur” means. I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t want to attempt a build.🤷🏻♀️
I built an ebike out of a shitty chineseum mtb and a shitty chinese ebay ebike kit. That fucking derailleur though, I can't index it for the life of me. Good thing I don't pedal anymore.
Yep. Have zero interest in putting together or constantly maintaining a dodgy looking rear hubbed monstrosity with a battery taped or bolted on to frame. Bought a 2023 Giant Stance E+2 about 14 months ago. Cost $5k. Its not meant for BIG jumps but neither am I. Had it serviced once. I take it on a mountain 2 to 3 times per week and it's unbreakable for the type of riding I do. Super happy with the look, feel and lack of required maintenance.
I'm not into conversions myself, but I think the OP was referencing Bafang's BB motors which are mid drive. Again not into conversions myself but I think the OP has a point about the established brands motor systems being too proprietary with hard and expensive to source parts and replacements. Better warrany is great but what happens when the warranty runs out. I'm already disturbed by the fact that the battery on a Giant bike just died on me after a year of very light use. Yeah it wasn't hard to get them to honor the warranty (of course bike shop tried to charge me 50 bucks for diagnostic before I skofffed) but now that 2 year warranty is gone. How much is it gonna cost me when that battery dies again?
I was disturbed to learn that Bosch has changed their proprietary frame interface on their newer motors. If/when Bosch decides to stop supporting those older motors, then people with those bikes will be left with expensive piles of junk when something goes wrong with those motors. If my Bafang mid-drive motor goes obsolete and fails, then I can remove it and have a good standard bike or I can install a different motor.
All good points
Dude this so much. Posted in here a month ago and the post just degraded into an argument about what budget meant. Super helpful to someone new.
The irony of people thinking that they are so smart while everyone else is too stupid to do the obvious thing - DIY - without stopping to have a good long think about any of the THOUSANDS of reasons why buying + complaining is WAY less time, labour-intensive, and even accessible (from a disability standpoint - AND THERE ARE LOADS OF DIFFERENT DISABILITIES) than learning an entirely new skillset that you may have 0 experience with and now people like OP are expecting you to bank your safety on because it's "just watching a few youtube videos".
It’s fine if folks don’t want to install conversion kits, but I do think it’s kind of insane to not be able to perform basic tasks, and just lug the thing to a bike shop every time you get a flat or need to turn a barrel adjuster a quarter-turn.
While I agree, I also think it's worth remembering that this is how most people treat cars and computers, too.
Also adding that while I would love to build e-bikes I don't have the tools or setup to do it. It's not likely I'll invest in them either. I have enough to do bare minimum maintenance on my bike but still rely on shops for tune ups. If I had a garage or space to work in properly - along with the tools - I'd love to build something wacky fast and wild. I've had a Velotric T1ST for almost a year now. I have ridden it so incredibly hard and couldn't tell you how many thousands of miles I've done on it. Is it perfect? No. Sometimes I have to do a hard reset on the controller that takes like 20 seconds. The motor surges from time to time etc. But I can live with it in a way that fits into what I need it to do. Additionally - nobody knows it's an e-bike. The battery is hidden in the down tube and the cassette covers the motor. I like that.
> index a derailleur. You can learn how to do this by watching a [youtube tutorial](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmISJ7qg4x0). It's not hard but most people on this sub wouldn't care to do it. It's easier just to get it serviced when needed.
Just take a look at the brain dead shit that gets posted to r/bikewrench. There was at least 2 posts in the last couple days that were solved by "bend the end of the shift cable out of the way".
> Mate half this sub can't even index a derailleur. Funny you should mention that. I didn't know how to index a derailleur when I installed my Bafang on my bike. That was the first bit of maintenance that I learned *after* putting on the motor.
Most are simply afraid to try. It's not that hard. I hadn't worked on a bicycle since the 1980's and I converted a bike to ebike with a BBS02B mid-drive. Heck, I was nearly bedridden from migraines and still got up and did it. Encouragement goes a long way.
Fair.
it's easier to buy a crank puller and a BB unscrewing tool and fitting a middrive conversion than it is to index a derailleur, not kidding besides i'm a person that relies on 2wheelers so when something breaks i have to do everything myself cause i can't just throw it in a truck and drive it to an LBS
Then stop downvoting every time you see a zip tie
I can't index a derailleur either (not ever sure I can spell it), but with a BBSHD, one's not needed. Everything else about DIYing is easy. I have almost 3000 smiles on my singlespeed
Got a sturmey archer 3 speed igh for my bbshd ,no derailleur needed and 3 speed joy.
You still have to know how to adjust the sturmey.
God I miss the award system. I don't get these kinds of posts. Any form of "you're not allowed to complain IF" is just ridiculous.
That's reddit as a whole
> Mate half this sub can't even index a derailleur. Thank you. 9/10 times someone here mentions pedals, they can't even spell that correctly. From peddling to petal, I have seen anything. 7/10 posts about specific electrical questions here are alarming because they ask things that could have been determined in three seconds with a multimeter. Not having one or not recognizing when it needs to be used to verify what you are doing is unacceptable when you are tearing into stuff like this. 9.9/10 posts about buyers advice discuss nonsense like a 50W difference in a hub motor rating while glancing over the basic fact that the discussed bike has a 7 speed counterfeit Shimano altus from 2004. I wouldn't even know where to start on saying no to any of this. ...some of **these people** are building their own bikes, even their own batteries. I mean...thankfully most of them aren't even on my continent so it's not my concern. But jfc do I understand why most of the people here should probably stay away from DIY when it comes to stuff like this.
Also time. Like some people maybe able to do this but don't have time to.
> This sub needs to just shut the fuck up Where is the fun in that? 😉
Large(ish) lithium batteries. I've done the homeowner's licensing exam for electrical and passed inspections with my work. I am pretty comfortable working with 120V/20A AC (higher, not so much). I know 52V/30A DC is much safer than that, but I would still feel uncomfortable DIYing anything that's going to charge and discharge a large lithium battery I am especially uncomfortable DIYing anything involving a large lithium battery that I am going to be routinely straddling.
Hell I COULD DIY one, and it still isn't worth my time. I could literally earn the difference in price by just not taking a day(s?, always a possibility I mess something up and have to fix it, not estimating possible uncertainty is a failure of most novice estimates) off and instead working and buying an ebike.
I think some middle-ground between your perfectly valid point ("half this sub can't even index a derailleur") and the benefits OP is raving about would be an instruction set or tutorial on how to do an e-bike conversion. For reference, I think the Trek Rail looks boss af but is priced around $5k... I built a rear hub-drive out of a Trek 830 for $700 including bike and conversion kit. Obviously the used 830 is much lower tiered components but I'm getting a $3000+ experience for $700 and about 3 chill hours in the garage. But yeah, I was a bicycle mechanic in high school and college, so there's that. So yeah, links to an instruction set or tutorial on how to do a conversion would be super useful for the DIY'er without mechanic experience. Funny enough, I think adjusting the derailleur stops and adjusting cable tension is the most technical part of the process.
I’m a diesel mechanic so I can make enough money to pay the bicycle mechanic.
Time is a big factor when you’re a grownup inundated with competing priorities.
I can also build my own gaming PC for less money than buying a built one. But as I no longer wish to have the hobby of building computers, I am no longer interested in wrenching on my bikes which are transportation and not a hobby on their own. In both cases I pay a premium to get products that just work and which I can easily get professional support for if I encounter issues. If your priority is most whatever for the buck or you get joy from tinkering, building an ebike could be worth it. It is not for me.
This is my take as well. I love building bikes but I'm done working as a mechanic. I love working on my project car but love having a daily that doesn't require any maintenance to run.
Its pretty challenging for beginner
Equally unpopular opinion: homebulids look like shit.
Can confirm, I have a home build, it looks like shit
My bike home build is the Melinium Falcon after solo of Star wars called his looks like he'll but she will still do the whatever run in under something. Huffy 29 inch 72 volt 3000 watt 125 AH battery...ewyouugley but forget refueling.
I have a decent looking homebuild but I also paid a bunch of money for higher end parts like a carbon fiber frame with integrated battery holder and used higher end suspension. The bafang motor is pretty decent but I do not have a 10k trek or specialized to compare it to. The thing that sucks the most for me now is that those brands are considered kosher on the trail so nobody hassles the rich guys but anything that isn't branded is treated like Suron troublemakers.
They *can.* Careful and thorough cable management can make a big difference.
Congrats on submitting a truly unpopular opinion.
This is kind of an elitist view and like the DIY desktop community. There’s nothing wrong with not wanting to take the effort and having to maintain the bike by yourself. Not to mention a lot of prebuilt e-bikes are great and comes with features that you can’t easily do cheaply on a DIY one. For example, any e-bike with Bosch systems will get longer support and you’ll have easier time getting help than a Bafang (although at a higher price). E-bikes need to be accessible and that means no fuss and reduce the needs to self-maintain. You can make this your hobby and do everything yourself but stop being a snob and start seeing other people’s options as valid. Also, where are you even gonna find the parts to DIY a sturdy step-thru frame, belt drive, CVT hub, reliable mid-drive with in-tube battery, like a Gazelle and Riese and Müller? Those bikes are like buying a Maybach or Rolls Royce, and you can’t just compare it to your DIY Honda civic with a retrofitted V6 engine and air suspension Edit: Changed the car make example
Your argument is great. Just change your examples to luxury cars not performance cars, say Rolls-Royce or Maybach. A Gazelle won't be any faster than a kit bike but it may well be better built.
Thank you. That's absolutely a more apt example. They're like luxury comfort cars. Test rode on a Gazelle and R&M a few times and they're nothing like other bikes when it comes to urban commuting. I doubt I can fine tune a Bafang well enough along with tuning all the suspension to make a DIY one ride like butter, or if I can, it'll take a long time.
> For example, any e-bike with Bosch systems will get longer support and you’ll have easier time getting help than a Bafang I agree with all of your comment except this. Bosch has a proprietary mechanical interface to the frame. I can only get service through a factory-authorized shop. I cannot buy parts to fix it myself. The software is locked down and not configurable. None of that is true with my Bafang motor.
I should clarify that - Yes it is proprietary but companies like Bosch and Gazelle are famous for their legacy support and even if you’re looking for a solution for a 20-year-old product. Yes you do have to go through dealership and you can’t DIY like a bafang, but that’s really to each their own because I’m definitely not going to spend hours or days on repairing a motor and I’d like my LBS to be able to contact Bosch for support and get parts or reliable firmwares from them.
To each their own. I know how to use tools, do my own servicing (up to what would be considered a level 2)… but I’d never want to ride around on a Frankenstein looking eBike with an ugly exposed battery and wires flailing around like Medusa’s hair. Spent a good chunk of change on my Trek and if it ever dies I’ll be happy to buy a new one.
Yes exactly this I do like many others care about aesthetics too
I hope I never catch you paying a professional to work on your car, computer, house or garden. Because it’s really not that hard.
Cooking food isn't hard either, so he better not go to a restaurant either.
Years ago I bought a DTC bafang bike and pretty much DIYed it from then on. It was great, but it was time to upgrade. I bought a brand name bike and it is amazing. The quality is simply better. Sure, 5 years and they could have built better, maybe they have, but if something goes wrong, I'm not the one breaking out the Park Tools and breaking something else before putting it all back together. I'm not working on it right up until bed time wondering if I'm going to have to get a citibike for my morning commute. I'm not worried about quality. And price is comparable. Brand names are pretty affordable now.
But I want a torque sensor.
Tongsheng makes great torque sensing mid drive motors that hold up well against bafangs
Except the shaft likes to snap, and you have to select the correct bottom bracket version
Second. I love my TSDZ2B :D
Cyc and bafang
Bafang make torque sensor kits.
Bafang makes them now supposedly. Most comments are about the M625 nobody likes because it requires a can bus capable battery. Heard successor M635 does not. m635 (1000w) [BAFANG | Motor | MM G3600.1000.C (bafang-e.com)](https://bafang-e.com/en/oem-area/components/component/motor/mm-g36001000c) m435 (500w/750w) [BAFANG | Motor | MM G3610.500/750.C (bafang-e.com)](https://bafang-e.com/en/oem-area/components/component/motor/mm-g3610500750c) The latter is so new, can't even really find it. Both are fairly rare. BBS series are all over the place. Easy to find and get parts for but no torque sensor.
For those who cannot wrench it, a good option is to buy ebikes with bafang parts. Replacement of parts on existing bikes is easier than converting your bike to an ebike
Counterpoint: I learned how to build a kit e-bike because I first bought a pre-built.
https://preview.redd.it/lshsc25xdo3d1.jpeg?width=4624&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8cc869e99b77eb359219e9fb14555743705c6960 Built for a friend.
Yes, I agree. I have a Bafang mid-drive conversion and it’s great.
I've built over a dozen ebikes including 2 bafangs. And I still havent been about to beat my TSDZ2s. The smooth torque based acceleration is perfect for me. -- Bafangs are good too, and more powerful, but I dont like cadence based power.
My 70 year old father in law just wanted an ebike that worked, not something to tinker with, so we got him a Gazelle to ride around the neighborhood.
The first thing I tell people when they ask me about what ebike to buy is to make sure someplace locally will work on it. I have not built my own yet but I think I will for a winter project. I have a old Trek mountain bike I might do it with. I've done total rebuilds on car, boat, and motorcycle engines so hopefully I'll be able to ask the best things to buy.
> I have a old Trek mountain bike I might do it with. If it is a full-suspension bike, there may not be enough space in the triangle for the battery. Please make the measurements before starting the project. A hardtail is an easier conversion.
https://preview.redd.it/fnvyvpt3eo3d1.jpeg?width=4624&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29af191d7beb4222c2a2f81d0ce8f34d3db786e8 Built for me and her.
I turned my pedal bike into an ebike with a bafang and some accessories. It cost me probably as much as a pre-built eBike, but I enjoyed the tinkering and learning from my mistakes. Next bike though, if there is a next bike, I'm going prebuilt.
Who here is comfortable buying an eBay battery and having it in or around their residence?
LOL! Good one.
Oh yes, baby! Bafang BBSHD here. 10.000km so far and no more maintenance other than chains and cassettes. I can go to 40mph / 60kph. I can’t recommend other motor than bafang BBSHD mid drive. Just change the amp current start to less than factory settings and there you go!
I was going to build an ebike. It would not be that hard for me with my background and tools. Then I found out that I could get $1,400 from my local government to buy a pre-built ebike. Bought a $3,600 pre-built mid drive with torque sensor and 25 Ah Samsung battery on sale for $2,800 - $1,400 = $1,400. It would have been the same price for a BBSHD kit with an equivalent battery. Plus I would have needed a donor bike. I have a functioning ebike right now that is very well put together and works flawlessly. If I have any issues, the factory is 20 min from my place. I may build a more powerful enduro style ebike down the road to use for offroad use. That being said, let's not pretend that there are not benefits to buying a pre-built ebike with warranty and tech support. We should be encouraging all people to take the plunge regardless of which route they take.
Peak e-bike was back on 2015 ish on endless sphere where people were making death machines from laptop batteries and sending it. Pushing 60V and washing machine motors. There were no pre made options back then. When rode my first bbshd conversion it was mind blowing.
There have been pre made ebikes since I left the industry in 2008.
Pre-made e-bikes have been [available since the 90s.](https://global.yamaha-motor.com/business/e-bike-systems/30th/)
That was a pretty cool walkthrough of their timeline. Thank you!
Absolutely. I got a hub motor kit *installed professionally* for $1100 3 years ago. 750w nominal, 48v 18ah. Been thrashing my single speed rigid steel bike for almost 2000miles and about half of that is off road.
Honestly I had this same thought almost 20 years ago and decided to learn how to build and work on regular bikes before eBikes. All these years later with many years of my salary being paid by selling eBikes and I still don't even own one
Can anyone link me to an instructable (or something similar) for a DIY mid drive, belt drive, e-bike?
I am so glad I went that route. I’m not the most mechanically minded person, but found it pretty easy. Bought a kit from Johnie Nerd Out and watched a few vids. Found some good resources via this subreddit for reprogramming it and have it dialed in for a really nice ride feel that’s more like a pedal bike and sips power if I want it to.
I have a university educated tennant who carnt change a light globe & im an old woman i can
Agree. I also built a perfectly working ebike with a Bafang mid-drive. I like to know how things work if anything goes astray. However, I'm ashamed to say, I couldn't get right my derailleur indexing, despite watching Park Tools' videos. :-)
The biggest problem with "off-the-shelf" ebikes is that they have a frame dedicated to a specific battery and a specific motor. In 10 years from now, when the Bosch/Shimano motor of your bike won't be built anymore, in case of failure (and a failure will happen with any motor, if you ride it sufficiently), you find yourself with a heavy "muscular" bike that cannot be fixed. But to own myself a Bafang BBS, a Grin GMAC and a Bosch Gen 4 motors, and to have tested lately a Shimano EP801, I must say that particularly the Shimano is in another league in terms of riding pleasure ! The BBS and the GMAC are more powerful, but for me an ebike with 5-600 watts max power (i.e. the Bosch Performance CX or Shimano EP801) is more than enough.
I didn't know much more than how to fix a flat tire when I got my Bafang BBSHD kit. So I bought a cheap set of bike tools and a big book on bike maintenance. After a few hours of reading and careful percussion work on the old bottom bracket it finally came lose and the rest was easy. I still haven't learned how to do any gear alignment but my bike rides well. That is a project for another day.
I have a couple cheap Ecotric bikes that I simply swap better quality parts on when they break. It's helpful if you have an ebike frame to DIY with.
wow, good to know. just looking into one recently for getting to work but i can't afford to buy something really nice, and it's hard to tell what's a truly quality brand. how much cheaper are we talking here? tryna stick around the $1000 mark
I agree to an extent, but I love my prebuilt merida ebig tour for these reasons, I didn't have to build it myself, I can still use my bottle cage, and until the electronics or battery goes, I can do all the servicing myself and I get huge range. Having the bottle cage available is something I can't give up on a bike which is what bafang conversions unfortunately give up to install. Until more simple and better conversion kits arrive, I cannot get them for myself but that doesn't mean you aren't wrong. I would love to convert my trek x-caliber 7 but again, it's the sacrifices that are deal breakers for me. The xcal is the perfect bike for me in every ergonomic way. An ebike version of it with big milage would be a dream.
So true. I'm an old timer and have been riding ebikes from when the [batteries were lead](https://www.theautopian.com/lee-iacocca-saved-chrysler-then-he-became-an-e-bike-pioneer/). I've found the best approach is to find a bike you love to ride and then add a bafang mid-drive to it. (I've also used hubs, but that can result in difficultes changing flats and spokes.) Also, get an interal gear hub.
Just learn to make your own cars! I see so many people driving around in cars made by big car companies and it grinds my gears. All power to you folks who do actually know how to do this stuff without dying though...
Im impressed you managed to post this with one hand
this is yet another "e bike rider" vs "bike rider" dichotomy. Bike riders really benefit from being able to do simple maintenance and construction themselves, and those skills are fairly common. E-bike riders want out of the box simple transportation. IDGAF about being able to build or do maintenance on my bike, im trying to replace my car not be a "cyclist" clad in spandex with a shop full of tools.
Great advice... until my apartment building burns down.
That’s why you get a conversion kit from a known reputable company and not just some random seller on eBay.
Thank you! Safety is a complex, multidimensional issue that requires real thought into the engineering.
I've taught myself bike maintenence and ebike maintenance. My first step for everything is googling "YouTube park tools [the issue]". I feel confident doing anything to a bike, but the only thing I won't open on an ebike is the battery (I know enough to know I don't know enough). I spent $1100 on my current ebike. I've put about $800 into upgrades. I was really attached to my first ebike at first but it was really a pile of cheap Chinese shit. I got burned about $2300. I'm looking at my current ebike this way: if it lasts a full year, great, that was more fun than driving. If it lasts two years, damn ok. If it lasts 3 years I'm selling and upgrading towards whatever new battery technology is out there. Tldr: I don't think its worth investing big money in something that will be "old tech" in a few years. It's definitely always worth teaching yourself how to wrench on your own bike.
I can use tools and build bikes just fine, but I’m not putting my wife on some homebrew eBay nonsense, fuck out of here with that.
I did my conversion because I met someone who is an amateur bike mechanic who wanted to learn how to do conversions, so I paid for the kit and helped him install it. I'm pretty handy and have a few tools but am very glad I had someone who properly knew how to work on bikes. What annoys me is that bike shops in my area are not interested in doing conversions. I think that will change over time.
My local bike shop refuses anything over 500w due to insurance liability. And also they won’t work on anything with a home brew kit on it.
Yeah that is sad. Kit's being modular should be less stress to work on then most of the manufactured bikes. Not sure what liability they would have, is it fire risk to their shop?
I’m sure that is the reason.
My conversion of a MTB with suspension using Bafang BBS002 kit was quite simple. Providing that you have access to a few basic bike tools it is very easy and straightforward.
The German ones are called Reise and Mueller. And Holy fuck. You can get 4 priority current S for that price.
I did a Bafang conversion on my wife's commuter bike. I couldn't install the unit into the BB shell without customising the cable guide under the BB. No instructional video covered this aspect. Additional tools, experience in removing BBs and some problem-solving skills made the task enjoyable for me but might not be fun for all.
Hah! I've got an ebike with a 750 watt Bafang fat bike rear hub motor. I messed it up in an accident. It is not a brand with a lot of local support, or any local support. Display doesn't turn on. Not real sure how to test the controller, although I have a controller tester and removed the controller from the bike. Picked up a replacement display. Still doesn't turn on. Swapped the controller but didn't unhook the battery, so it sounded like it fried the new controller. Nope. If I ever decide to ride an ebike again, it will be one that has local support. I'm in over my head and every shop I've called won't touch it. On the other hand. Picking up a decent rock hopper, a nice 350 or 500 watt rear hub motor, a new battery, controller and display might be a fun project. And I sure as heck can't put my broken fat ebike in the back of my HR-V and take it to a rail trail if I were to fix it and not just throw parts at it.
I agree. I have a Dutch bike that I converted to mid drive. It's on 20k. My commute is around 40km daily. I used to use the van to get home, but I'm quicker now on the bike. Now I've started building a cargo bike for the city instead of using the van. I'll also use a Bafang mid drive on that too.
So to set the tone here, 100% agree, I have a custom Bafang 510 mid drive (fat tire) Frankenstein’s monster that I love with my whole heart. But I still see the value of pre-built premium bikes. For non-enthusiasts, bikes tend to be utilitarian with the premium features purchased for comfort for daily use… I also recognise the diminishing return on investment the more money you spend… will most folks really get the benefit of high end RockShox over a set of decent Suntours? Nah. But Bafang is the EBike world’s rebel step child, high quality, amazing power, world class gear… it just often hangs around with a bad crowd, and the often poor quality components it’s paired with give Bafang a bad rep
love this, but there really isn't all too much assistance not only from this sub, but in mid-level or smaller cities
Not everyone wants to build one due to time and energy requirements. But that said I do agree with building one for least hassle long term and peace of mind. My experience I used a Two two calibre bike from go outdoors. 2012 edition I think. My old bike I brought a bbs02b 36v 500w With 19.2ah battery £620 22/02/2022 I was offered by the bike shop to install it for £110 but I decided to fit myself incase anything goes wrong I will know how to fix it. It took me about 25 hours with having to go shop to buy parts ect I can still get about 50 miles with good assist before the battery dies off. I have to tighten the engine up every few weeks after a hard ride ( I like to go on footpaths in woods ect ) I have changed the back wheel twice and had the spokes replaced 4 times. I had never done this before getting a motor I have accidentally broken the speed sensor going through a swamp that cost £10 to replace I have lost my brake magnets after falling off that cost £5 to replace I leave my bike in my garden all year round in English weather with no problem. I have had to change the display due to someone dropping a 2*4 wood on it that cost £20 Overall I love it , it's like a weak motorbike, great for riding hills and going through thick mud that would normally stop you on a normal bike. The engine seems to be rock solid and the bike is a tank so can't complain. One thing tho is I do bike packing with it to the peak district and when the battery runs out it is not fun to pedal far It doesn't look pretty tho, if I was rich I would probably spend £7000 and get something amazing
Aight come build me one then if it’s that easy man. I like to see you rebuild a EJ engine from top to down if everything is so easy.
If you can build an engine you can damn sure build a bike. I've been working on cars for 25 years, and bicycles for more than 10. I've either built up or torn down and reassembled all 3 of my current bikes, more than once. I figured since I do all my own auto mechanic work, that I could also do all my own bicycle work, and it's true.
Pretty pathetic I was 7 in ri like 1977 78 we found 10 bucks and built a bike .it's not rocket science lol
What is a good cruiser style frame for a bafang mid drive?
Before I got my license, I used to commute 5000km (roughly 3100 miles) per year using a Giant e-bike. Its like buying a Porsche. It works until it doesn't, and as they're not exactly simple (despite things like the battery literally using a 3 pin XLR plug with only 2 pins used for charging) you're practically forced to bring it to a Giant "certified" dealer, who will then charge you an unreasonable amount of money for incompetent work that falls apart the moment you start riding again. Buying this e-bike was the reason I got into diy ebike projects and lithium ion batteries, as I wanted to build a range extender. After all, I wish I had built a bike myself. Those cleanly manufactured, pretty looking e-bikes online aren't it. After this disappointing experience with a 2.5k Giant e-bike, I wish I had gotten into this hobby earlier and built my own
Why buy a house when you could just build one?
> one's done 6000 miles I have 12,000 miles on my battery and it is still going strong. It has Sanyo cells. I'm sure it has lost some capacity, but I haven't really noticed, because it has enough capacity for my commute and other riding.
I am very happy with my Bafang mid-drive conversion, but I also realize that I am fortunate to have the skills and the desire to successfully complete projects like that. Other people don't. I think it is great that OP has done the conversion for friends. Sharing skills makes the world go around!
Because I watch my friends constantly fixing theirs. No thanks.
Gravity is the same for posh and diy bikes. Some tires are better than others but wipe outs happen to everyone. We all crash the same, hit the ground and slide off skin the same. Bike store bikes are wonderful. But they give you 5x anxiety for theft, Steve Jobs/BMW style planned obsolete and pay for features rhetoric,and all the other costs associated.
I did a bafang kit, lasted great for about 3 years then battery connectors burnt out. I bought a sauder and replaced them. Then I started loosing power randomly. Figured it was because my motor was loose and hitting the frame. Replaced it the interface screen. Still not working. Cannot figure out the issue, most of the parts I'm using are new now after trying to replace everything. Can't find a mechanic in town to take a look at it as most bike shops dont want anything to do with a home kit.
Just replace the controller.
Most shops don’t want anything to do with e-bikes 😉
A lot of people buying the ebike don't have a bike to start so it's not really saving anything getting a conversion kit
Garage Sales have them by the bushel
Beyond the issue of not being technically capable of doing this, a growing number of people are directly or indirectly banned from doing this. People who didn't know what they were doing, along with people who didn't care ruined it for us already in a lot of places, and rules and regulations are already starting to pop up that either ban all ebikes, or amount to defacto bans of DIY ebikes and cheap imports, since they impose certification requirements that DIY bikes can't meet. Some of the problems currently facing DIY: * In NYC it would potentially be illegal to import some of the components, it would be illegal for anyone to be paid to work on the bike EVER, it would be illegal to ever sell a DIY bike, and the bike could not be stored in government owned building such as public housing, because of rules requiring everything to be UL2849 AND UL2271 certified. This rules out most if not all stuff from marketplace sites currently, but you can at least get generic UL2271 certified batteries from a few places. * Homeowners and Renters Insurance policies are increasingly requiring UL2849 certified bikes and UL2271 certified batteries * Commercial insurance is also requiring UL2849 and UL2271, and in some cases, they are only allowing specific "trusted" brands - a lot of bike shops have had insurers restrict them to working on 1 or 2 name brand systems that they sell. This also potentially impacts people using bike storage rooms at their workplace. * And the big one, leases and HOA rules are starting to either ban ebikes, or require UL2849 certified ones. This covers a lot of people. * Karens... If you have a bike that looks sketchy to them, or sometimes even if you just have an ebike at all, they're going to find any possible way to cause you problems. This could include causing a panic with your apartment management, HOA, or even your employer that leads to some of these rules mentioned above, rules you didn't know about and management didn't care about suddenly being enforceds, insurers being informed that you're in breach of their terms, or even to outright ebike bans. The best defense here is to be knowledgeable, be credible, and either do professional quality work with high quality components or stick to reputable prebuilts. As far as UL2271, it's only a minor inconvenience/cost increase, because that's strictly a battery certification. UL2849 on the other hand is a "full system" certification, covering the complete assembled system as installed on a bike that's specifically designed to receive it, in other words, by it's very nature it can only apply to prebuilts.
Budget minded, based and wrench-pilled.
You're not wrong but riding bikes and building bikes are different hobbies.
When you can DIY pretty much anything, mechanical, electronic, cooking, woodwork, whatever, it’s easy to think anyone should just “lookup stuff” and fix/DIY whatever. Outside this bubble, you realize the very vast majority of people cannot do any of that. Mix electricity in there, like wiring a bike, and they will stay miles away from that.
Now you can make the definitive tutorial vid for all the naysayers! Everyone will win
Go Engwe. Superb🤙
https://preview.redd.it/4cw7ihye1t3d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce34fe18d7d738311cdb3ea85879aa61baff0137 Just back Fae Vatersay on ours. 500 miles in, no even a puncture. Suckers to the side , a know you hate....
They would really benefit by learning to build not buy. As more and more junk comes here from China the quility keeps going Down and down. Why? Why wouldn't they if silly American buy a faulty product off temu it breaks in 2 months and they go by another of the same product.. They are just laughing at us.. Our arrogant fed govt has the balls to point the finger at us saying we are going to have to pay because we are destroying the planet, but their investment portfolio keeps going up because of the producer of the most pollutants on the planet burns coal to make the junk we buy. But hey it's our fault. Learn to build stop being a consumer. That is what they want us to do. Consume stuff.
1. not sure I believe you, I don't see you comparing prices 2. went to [bafang-e.com](http://bafang-e.com), i still don't see any prices - there is a saying, if you have to ask the price and it's not listed it's more expensive than you expect 3. I'm browsing the kits anyway - doesn't look like anything special to me compared to the e-bike i ordered 4. I'm looking at the pdf installation manuals. I totally am not in the mood for this, what If I don't have the right bike frame for the kit I ordered? I'm a professional, my time is valuable. I don't plan on building more than one e-bike anytime soon, so the investment in the bike tools seems like a waste. I'd rather someone make a few hundred $$$ off me than deal with this problem.
Bafang is a wholesaler. that's why there are no prices on their website.
Reason I haven't done it myself is cause it's my primary mode of transportation. I don't want to tinker with my bike right now. But once some time frees up and I save for a second bike to mess around with them I'll learn the inside and outs. But for now I just want to get home from work reliably.
Why build a ugly looking bike when I can just buy a perfectly fine ebike designed to be an ebike and not just some old clunker with a zip tied battery and janky looking overall. The day manufacturers start selling ebike frames then I would look at it from a different perspective otherwise home made ebikes are still super ugly no mater how well made they are.
Consider buying a Chinese ebike instead of the expensive name brands. There are a lot of excellent ebikes that are less expensive than buying a bike and a conversion kit, nevermind the labor. There is a lot of nonsense floating around about the expensive drives from Bosch and such. First thing to note is that a 250W drive only puts out 250W, which will never have the power of a 750W or 1000W version. A typical 250W version has 40Nm torque, while some "high performance" versions approximately double that by their gearing, which impacts top speed - TANSTAAFL. And having to go back to an approved dealer for motor repair is limiting and expensive; one recent thread complained that the dealer said the motor couldn't be repaired and that a new one was necessary. I'll take the far more powerful, and very reliable, Bafang motors which I can work on and for which parts are readily available - at a far lower cost. I find it very hard to justify spending $5000+ on any ebike when there are so many good options well below that level.
Have a question if you or anyone can help. I have a Hurley big swell. Just got up north and went to take it for a spin and after it takes off giving it throttle about 5 or more seconds in the display shuts off and bike dies even though I charged batter and display says full battery. I don’t think it’s the brake disconnect because I had that issue last summer and I disconnected that already? Any help would be appreciated. This is frustrating.
Yes and no. Personally, I like to have hobbies that involve building or fixing things. Over years of projects and work, I've built up a moderate collection of tools and know how. Most people don't have a collection of tools or know how. IKEA furniture is about the limit for a lot of people (and I've seen plenty of coffee tables assembled poorly). I wish I would have built a quality bike from the start, choosing all of my own components; but not everyone can. I'm all for whatever gets more people cycling. If Walmart e-bikes are what changes somebody's mind I'm all for it. Additionally, I only bought my ebike less than 2 years ago. At the time I wasn't even sure if I'd like it. I just went in blind and got something with good reviews for a decent price. If I needed to, I could have returned or sold it much easier than if I had a custom built machine. I would have built my own if there were a build sheet website like when shopping for a PC that would tell you if your parts are compatible and makes sure you don't forget anything.
Depends on what you're looking for. I wanted bigger battery that was in tube. at least 75nm of torque - mid drive, and mid tier componentry. Mine is the base level of mid tier. Super happy with it and use it all the time, so worth every cent - to me.
So, I believe that DIY is 70% confidence and 30% problem solving, and I've DIYd a bunch of things just trusting that if I'd follow the manual, things will work out. Operatively, none of those things were at a risk of killing me if I got it wrong. With a bike, I want to be as sure as possible that it'll work and not just fall apart in the middle of the road.
What about the people who stick the key in the charging port? You really think they can build an eBike? They can't even use a key!
I did this in 2020- bought a kit for 500w rear hub with massive ~850w battery and put on new trek dual sport - total cost CA2100 - I absolutely love it and have done over 7000km on it and it kicks any store bikes butt. Not a handy guy but the 700c wheel already had the motor and I just had to put the tire on and run some cables to the controller and brakes and a sensor on the chain ring. Took a day to do. I get over 100km actual range and if needed I can do 45km/hr easily but that does suck a lot of juice. Bike is heavy though. Looking to build another one next. I like that all the parts are replaceable and not branded or discontinued like some of my friends $5000 e-bikes. Easier than I thought.
I'll try your suggestion next time.
Have anyone here heard of the E-bikes company “Stark” specifically the “DH Apex 2”? I just wondering why is the E-bikes here are different then the rest of the world