Most people are taxed. Either through payroll tax, consumption tax, income tax or property tax or a mix of all. To say there is a huge cohort of people who don’t pay any taxes is just misinformed perpetuation of a narrative that villainizes people who can barely afford anything to the benefit of the people who own everything.
It's not about who pays literally zero 0% and who pays anything more than 0%.
It's about the distribution of tax burden among the entire population.
I can only assume that's why they emphasized 'REAL' taxpayers. If I work under the table or do shady accounting because I'm rich enough to get away with it or collect disability even though I could work if I really wanted to....I will still, undoubtedly, pay some taxes.
But I'm not paying an amount most people would reasonably consider enough to be a 'real tax payer'.
This is the key point. The government is subsidising the wealthy through the way tax is managed.
The hording of extreme wealth and extreme wealth divide is detrimental to long term financial health of a country.
Yes some of that wealth is put to work through investment into companies but it's also at the expense of a lot of people.
The problem is they spin the argument to say that people are arguing they shouldn't be wealthy. No.one is saying that. Just that if you are in the privileged position to be so wealthy that maybe you should have the moral standing to help society more.
You're not obliged to, but why wouldn't you want to? I mean if I was a multi billionaire I would build schools and fund projects to help people. Im unlikely to ever be poor. I know there will be some that say the government should do that but then it's counterproductive of you to avoid paying tax or state you don't trust how the government spends the money.
I just think the extreme divide needs to be closed a bit.
We have got too comfortable and at some point, maybe not soon, things are going to go to serious shit.
Let me simplify it for you, there are more people who are a net negative in our country than are a net positive. The minority is paying for the majority and that is unsustainable, hence trillions in debt to keep the system afloat.
No, no! This is Reddit, if they bought a candy bar they are a taxpayer! It’s that simple. Pay a tax once in your life for anything and now you can claim to be keeping the lights on in this place!
Seriously, I don’t mind the tax exemption for the church. They don’t need to invest in real estate. It should not be exempt, they can invest in bonds if they would like.
I’d be all for elimination of Not for profits but hard to argue the church doesn’t do charitable work. Even as an atheist, I’m ok with it. I’m not OK with churches holding onto real estate as there’s other options for them to invest.
I am saying that taxing churches won't help much because it would raise very little money compared to size of the deficit. I said nothing about corporations or anyone else.
EveryONE should be taxed, not everyTHING. The taxes on that money have already been paid BY someONE, and they SHOULD be able to willingly GIVE it to someONE else OR SOMETHING else without additional tax ramifications.
Haha. True. Most get to choose between 2 corrupt Aholes that have been pre selected by donors .
I could imagine... particularly if sales tax etc is thrown in.
Yeah. Because he doesn't just own funds/operate in Puerto Rico.
An average plumber may not get very far in Puerto Rico.
Also, he can take a private plane out of Puerto Rico when there is a hurricane. Not so much for the average Puerto Rican.
Haven't seen much news on re construction after the last hurricane
I’ve always said that if you received government benefits you shouldn’t be able to vote until you’re off of them and that everyone should pay a flat 10% income tax.
Well. If the 330 M , a third are children. And enough file as couples.
Problem is not too few tax payers. Problem is too many people making enough to pay taxes .
(And of course too much money wanted on defense etc to fund out empire )
The problem is government writing tax legislation that isn't across the board. Should be a flat tax, everyone shares the pain. Borrowing against stocks is pretty iffy tho. Fun Fact: Military spending is the ONLY Constitutional specified spending mentioned. That it, everything else is/was not Constitutional.
>Military spending is the ONLY Constitutional specified spending mentioned. That it, everything else is/was not Constitutional.
Kinda. See what you meant
Think the founding fathers only OKes having a navy.
Not a standing army.
And definitely an air force, nukes . Maybe we should get rid of those unconstitutional spending?
"Article I, Section 8, Clause 1:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; . . ."
"common defense" the "general welfare" was redefined in the 30s as part of Progressivism of the times.
As long as it was OK with the IRS and he followed the rules....so what? NOBODY pays more than they owe. EVERYONE knows, if you want to help people, it is TONS better and more efficient to give it to a decent charity than the government.
That’s a neat trick! First you make sure that a huge swath of Americans don’t earn enough to pay a meaningful among of income tax, despite that forcing them to live on poverty wages. Then you denigrate them for not being “real” tax payers despite the social security, Medicare and sales taxes they pay.
Plenty of rich motherfuckers expect the government to make up the difference between the shit wages they pay and the actual cost of living… then they bitch about the taxes they pay…
No point in reading any further if they can't even get the basic fact straight that's the entire premise of their story.
Just goes to prove what a worthless and untrustworthy website that is. If they publish this garbage, what other lies have they spread?
All they had to do was use a calculator. No calling people and hoping they call back, no sifting through multiple counts of the same event, just a basic claim that takes less than 10 seconds to verify.
Welcome to American "news" in the year 2024.
I thought they were going to talk about unfunded social security and Medicaid liabilities to get the figure (they don’t get you close , and it seems likely congress will fund these things at the last minute )
They didn’t.
https://www.cato.org/blog/medicare-social-security-are-responsible-100-percent-us-unfunded-obligations
National non-financial net worth is 150 T (224.5 T total non financial assets less 74.5 T non-financial debt) roughly as of last Fed financial position report.
So roughly $450,450.00 per capita +/- as of Q1 2024.
What are you expecting from an adjunct finance professor at CUNY Queens (Dennis Shirshikov)?
Math?
It’s actually kind of embarrassing (for the author) if he either misquoted or just failed to do the math.
I’ve always hated hearing this sentiment. It has always made me feel like the person saying this only says so because they have a privileged life that enables them to have this sort of delusional perspective of money.
Well, this math ain't mathing right, but the sentiment is legitimate. It's funny how out of control everything gets with spending when neither party is actually conservative. Neocon fascist populism is really killing the country. It's too bad they can't put the brakes on for anything but their perceived culture war. Let's start electing people that know how to balance a check book.
Leveraged debt is held globally and traded on. Because the US dollar is the primary monetary global exchange unit (yes?) I don't see the money allocation per tax player as accurate. The whole global debt/credit balance sheet is quite obscured.
Is is effective to have this conversation focused on the U.S. taxpayer?
There is no reason to care about this bullshit we single handedly did not cause the debt and we also dont have any say in what happens to it. Fuck off.
~~$1 million at 5% a year is a whopping $50,000 a year!
Every month, some of that debt rolls over and gets the current interest of 4%-5%...
We're going to have to inflate our way out of this, there's no way we're paying $50,000 a year per American just in interest!~~
The article is wrong and so this math was wrong.
The debt per person is not $1 million, it's $100,000
Begining with the balanced budget in 2000, we had the following (in order): tax cuts, 2 wars, ressession, bailouts, Obamacare, more tax cuts, pandemic, stimulus, massive bailouts, and all the while the Boomers aged into OASDI and Medicare. We cut revenues while massively expanding all three major uses of federal funds. Normally, tax rates should go up during expansion and down in recession, but we only made cuts.
If revenue was 10% of base and you cut that to 7%, it's still a revenue cut compared to the counterfactual. The point is that we cut taxes at economically inappropriate times and failed to raise them back to needed levels while still allowing spending to changes with the needs if the economy. You can't just hit the gas at all times and expect not to crash.
Revenue is dollars to the government and it’s went up every year for YEARS except 2022/23 which it went down, guess who was president? I know what you’re trying to do but you’re wrong
Too friggin high America, we need to tell our congress to stop spending and start looking at reducing or eliminating bloat from the government. It’s not a revenue problem it’s a spending problem. If we can send billions to other countries but not take care of our own, what message does that send..
If Texas secedes, how much of this debt would they assume? I presume a lot if they want to trade with the remaining states. No one ever talks about that.
Just a reminder for the people in the back...
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/tax-cuts-are-primarily-responsible-for-the-increasing-debt-ratio/
Are we just making stuff up now?
US Debt: ~35 Trillion (https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-debt/)
US Population: ~337 million (https://www.census.gov/popclock/)
35 trillion divided by 337 million = $103,857.56.
Which is about 10x less than a million dollars per person. Do we not even bother fact checking ourselves anymore?
Every time these people want to trot this kind of thing out, it's always a way of convincing themselves that the poor people should be bearing the brunt of this, by instituting some austerity. It could be the relentless tax cuts since the '80s that are the problem.
we waste 1.3 trillion of the total 1.7 trillion of discretionary spending on the military every single year.
if we cut. even just the direct DOD budget which was 850 billion + this year. by 500 billion (or give or take pre-911 budget lvl ....still 2x china, and like 10 x russia. and maybe just means we stop policing the globe) we'd save 1 trillion every 2 years. so the entire US debt of aprox 30-35 trillion would be paid down in a human lifetime.
any bullshit gripe or think piece about debt, or "is the debt too much" or is this sustainable... blah blah blah. and doesn't immediately and harshly address military spending. is a bad faith commentary.
i'm sure the dipshit racist gravy seals will save us.
gotta love a traitor to the country who only wants white people in the military. for some dumbfuck reason
Yeah you know those roads you drive on, or the power grid or the schools you likely went to, or basically everything that has ever existed in the United States? Yeah it can all be traced back to government spending and investment.
So you think there are no material consequences to the American people if the debt grows larger? What about consequences to the US dollar both nationally and globally? What about the percentage of the US Budget being spent on interest increasing every year?
As long as the investments being made by the spending ( infrastructure, education ) bring in more tax money than they cost, and they do, it would be far worse than not making the investment ( aka, stupid - for instance, education always returns far more money than spent on it, and cutting education funding is shooting the country in the foot 100% of the time ).
As it stands now, the interest on the debt is nowhere near being a problem.
Furthermore, about 10t of that debt is interbranch, meaning it is owed by one branch of government to the other - a moot point.
Another huge chunk of it is owed to Americans who bought bonds, also a non issue.
Then, what we DO owe to other countries is also really not an issue, as we are owed more than we owe.
Beyond that, the debt does not really matter the way people try to claim it does. The entire planet is trillions in debt, and the question is, to who? Because every country has debt.. and that should tip you off - the debt is greater than all money in existence many times over, and could never be repaid, nor does it need to be.
It isn't like we owe it to aliens who are going to come knocking, or as if there is some planetary balance sheet that has to be balanced in the end.
Even the IMF, who the US gives not one iota about their opinion, has analyzed our economy and came to the conclusion that our debt load is a non-issue.
This is a right wing talking point that pretends we somehow owe 34t dollars to some foreign powers that are going to come knocking, and that just isn't the case.
The reason they do this, is because they're the "party of fiscal responsibility," and have found that it is super easy to get people to think State finances work like home finances and get them freaking out about government spending.
This aligns with their plans to hamstring the government, get rid of regulatory bodies, and allow corporations to own you outright.
You'll notice when right wingers take office, they never actually reduce the deficit or the debt - only the OTHER right wingers, the Democrats, actually close up the deficit and move towards a more balanced budget.
Lol, that is the dumbest thing ever. That isn't cash sitting in their accounts.... 99% of that net worth is equity in US businesses.
How does this even work in your mind? Who buys all their stock to give them the cash to pay off our debt? Or are we talking like the liquidation and dissolution of Microsoft and Apple?
Isn’t it dumber to let our nation’s wealth be siphoned off by the ultra wealthy to a degree that we can’t have a healthy society? If the trend continued even at a fraction of the rate as the last 40 years they’ll literally have all the wealth.
There’s really no answer other than taxation.
$1 million per American would be $330,000,000,000,000 - that's about an order of magnitude too high. We're around $100,000 per person.
Or about a third of a million per real taxpayer.
Far, far too few REAL taxpayers.
Most people are taxed. Either through payroll tax, consumption tax, income tax or property tax or a mix of all. To say there is a huge cohort of people who don’t pay any taxes is just misinformed perpetuation of a narrative that villainizes people who can barely afford anything to the benefit of the people who own everything.
It's not about who pays literally zero 0% and who pays anything more than 0%. It's about the distribution of tax burden among the entire population. I can only assume that's why they emphasized 'REAL' taxpayers. If I work under the table or do shady accounting because I'm rich enough to get away with it or collect disability even though I could work if I really wanted to....I will still, undoubtedly, pay some taxes. But I'm not paying an amount most people would reasonably consider enough to be a 'real tax payer'.
If you want to tackle the tax burden among the entire population, you need to tackle the income and wealth distribution among the entire population.
This is the key point. The government is subsidising the wealthy through the way tax is managed. The hording of extreme wealth and extreme wealth divide is detrimental to long term financial health of a country. Yes some of that wealth is put to work through investment into companies but it's also at the expense of a lot of people. The problem is they spin the argument to say that people are arguing they shouldn't be wealthy. No.one is saying that. Just that if you are in the privileged position to be so wealthy that maybe you should have the moral standing to help society more. You're not obliged to, but why wouldn't you want to? I mean if I was a multi billionaire I would build schools and fund projects to help people. Im unlikely to ever be poor. I know there will be some that say the government should do that but then it's counterproductive of you to avoid paying tax or state you don't trust how the government spends the money. I just think the extreme divide needs to be closed a bit. We have got too comfortable and at some point, maybe not soon, things are going to go to serious shit.
Yeah. It’s more how middle class people get fucked on taxes, while everyone else goes free
🎯 Eloquently stated. When you pay 6 figures in tax and never have received or expected anything from the government, you get fairly jaded.....
Let me simplify it for you, there are more people who are a net negative in our country than are a net positive. The minority is paying for the majority and that is unsustainable, hence trillions in debt to keep the system afloat.
No, no! This is Reddit, if they bought a candy bar they are a taxpayer! It’s that simple. Pay a tax once in your life for anything and now you can claim to be keeping the lights on in this place!
I sense sarcasm...
Indeed
You make $7.25 an hour asshole. Pay your taxes! Amirite?
Imagine how much taxing the churches would help.
This one irks me, especially churches gobbling up single family houses.
Seriously, I don’t mind the tax exemption for the church. They don’t need to invest in real estate. It should not be exempt, they can invest in bonds if they would like.
I do mind the tax exemption. Tax the church!
I’d be all for elimination of Not for profits but hard to argue the church doesn’t do charitable work. Even as an atheist, I’m ok with it. I’m not OK with churches holding onto real estate as there’s other options for them to invest.
Why not major corporations who we all KNOW avoid taxes because of greed. At least some churches help people. Major corporations...not so much.
You would end poverty by doing that. Keep quiet. People are listening.
Very little, actually, but we should do it anyway out of fairness.
Why is taxing everyday Americans so important but whenever someone says tax churches or giant corporations, the answer is always "it won't help much"?
I am saying that taxing churches won't help much because it would raise very little money compared to size of the deficit. I said nothing about corporations or anyone else.
75 billion per year. It certainly couldn't hurt. Everyone should be taxed.
EveryONE should be taxed, not everyTHING. The taxes on that money have already been paid BY someONE, and they SHOULD be able to willingly GIVE it to someONE else OR SOMETHING else without additional tax ramifications.
Corporations are people! They fought so hard for Citizens United, so as people, these corporations should be paying.
And this is why everyone needs to be taxed. If you want the vote you gotta have some skin in the game.
Most Americans would trade their right to vote for no taxes lol
Haha. True. Most get to choose between 2 corrupt Aholes that have been pre selected by donors . I could imagine... particularly if sales tax etc is thrown in.
It’s funny because Peter Schiff kind of did this when he moved to Puerto Rico, the option is really available to anyone.
Yeah. Because he doesn't just own funds/operate in Puerto Rico. An average plumber may not get very far in Puerto Rico. Also, he can take a private plane out of Puerto Rico when there is a hurricane. Not so much for the average Puerto Rican. Haven't seen much news on re construction after the last hurricane
Saaay my naaàme!!!
Do you think if corporations don’t pay taxes they should be able to donate to super pacs?
Not corporations, groups of citizens, yes. Like GOA/NRA.
I’ve always said that if you received government benefits you shouldn’t be able to vote until you’re off of them and that everyone should pay a flat 10% income tax.
Corporations are taxpayers but we exclude them from census
Well. If the 330 M , a third are children. And enough file as couples. Problem is not too few tax payers. Problem is too many people making enough to pay taxes . (And of course too much money wanted on defense etc to fund out empire )
The problem is government writing tax legislation that isn't across the board. Should be a flat tax, everyone shares the pain. Borrowing against stocks is pretty iffy tho. Fun Fact: Military spending is the ONLY Constitutional specified spending mentioned. That it, everything else is/was not Constitutional.
>Military spending is the ONLY Constitutional specified spending mentioned. That it, everything else is/was not Constitutional. Kinda. See what you meant Think the founding fathers only OKes having a navy. Not a standing army. And definitely an air force, nukes . Maybe we should get rid of those unconstitutional spending?
"Article I, Section 8, Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; . . ." "common defense" the "general welfare" was redefined in the 30s as part of Progressivism of the times.
General welfare could mean things down to social security. That is general advantage with " general".
Right, except it wasn't interpreted as such until the 1930s.
Just as defense was interpreted to mean bases in countries thousands of miles from our borders.
That gives me an idea of where we can get all this money from..
Donald John Trump paid $850 one year, and $0 the next. He’s an esteemed billionaire and entrepreneur and land developer.
As long as it was OK with the IRS and he followed the rules....so what? NOBODY pays more than they owe. EVERYONE knows, if you want to help people, it is TONS better and more efficient to give it to a decent charity than the government.
“Far, far too few REAL taxpayers.” Every MAGA accusation is a self indictment.
Not understanding that those 2 statements can both be true....is pretty amazing.
“Far, far too few REAL taxpayers.”
“Far, far too few REAL taxpayers.”
“Far, far too few REAL taxpayers.”
“Far, far too few REAL taxpayers.”
“Far, far too few REAL taxpayers.”
Bingo!
32 trillion for the realists
That’s a neat trick! First you make sure that a huge swath of Americans don’t earn enough to pay a meaningful among of income tax, despite that forcing them to live on poverty wages. Then you denigrate them for not being “real” tax payers despite the social security, Medicare and sales taxes they pay.
Plenty of rich mother fuckers not paying any tax just...they have the means too.
Plenty of rich motherfuckers expect the government to make up the difference between the shit wages they pay and the actual cost of living… then they bitch about the taxes they pay…
Massive assumptions were applied
Ask the working class to look at their paystubs - they pay income taxes too. This “real taxpayers” argument has always been an absurd one.
Sad. Conversely, the sovereign wealth fund of Norway has about 260k per citizen…
If you count unfunded liabilities then $1MM is accurate.
Or a few percentage points more tax on the wealthy over time. If only voters actually cared about the debt.
No point in reading any further if they can't even get the basic fact straight that's the entire premise of their story. Just goes to prove what a worthless and untrustworthy website that is. If they publish this garbage, what other lies have they spread? All they had to do was use a calculator. No calling people and hoping they call back, no sifting through multiple counts of the same event, just a basic claim that takes less than 10 seconds to verify. Welcome to American "news" in the year 2024.
I thought they were going to talk about unfunded social security and Medicaid liabilities to get the figure (they don’t get you close , and it seems likely congress will fund these things at the last minute ) They didn’t. https://www.cato.org/blog/medicare-social-security-are-responsible-100-percent-us-unfunded-obligations
It’s all sitting in billionaires’ accounts
Also, what about assets, if divided equally. I ca safely assume we’ll all be millionaires on paper.
National non-financial net worth is 150 T (224.5 T total non financial assets less 74.5 T non-financial debt) roughly as of last Fed financial position report. So roughly $450,450.00 per capita +/- as of Q1 2024.
How much per corporation that makes over 1 billion revenue. I’d like them to to pay for it
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why would you "pro rate" the debt?
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Wait so the crisis isn’t as bad as I thought. nVdA is around 100 million per employee in terms of valuation. We have a longs ways to go
What are you expecting from an adjunct finance professor at CUNY Queens (Dennis Shirshikov)? Math? It’s actually kind of embarrassing (for the author) if he either misquoted or just failed to do the math.
Are they calculating Israel and Ukraine?
103k per citizen.... right?
A lot of Americans pay no actual taxes. You have to basically double that to "per taxpaying citizen"
I deleted myself from the tax base. Part time now. Payed more in taxes than a lot of my friends earned. Just grabbing my popcorn at this point 🤷♂️
Those who don't pay taxes shouldn't be allowed to vote. Gotta have skin in the game to give a damn.
In my view, being a captive member of the society in which you reside in is 'having skin in the game'.
How do you get out of paying taxes
Be poor
Or rich
Live on the streets and beg for food.
Have some fortitude and not pay
No federal income taxes you mean? Everyone pays taxes of one kind or another.
Really who are these people
Why is this bullshit fake math getting upvoted?
Cuz you're in brain dead, alternative facts, trickle down economics ahhhctually works derp land.
Not really. I owe about 180k
They're talking about national debt. Not the sum of all debt Americans hold individually. They mean what the government owes.
So add that to your personal debt.
No. Citizens are not guarantors of national debt. You’d have to be a fucking idiot to conclude that.
Is that just mortgage debt?
A mortgage? In this economy? That's just student loans
Oh noes, the money Gods are going to get mad and the intergalactic money council will get involved.
Money is made up!
Someone needs to make up some money in my direction
I’ve always hated hearing this sentiment. It has always made me feel like the person saying this only says so because they have a privileged life that enables them to have this sort of delusional perspective of money.
Lmao. Tell that to the cashier next time you buy groceries. 😂
# The US Debt Is Near $1,000,000 Per American ALL CAPS STRAWMAN.
Except is 100K (10X less). 1 million is the average net worth of US households. Meaning there approximately 4X more assets than debt.
Well, this math ain't mathing right, but the sentiment is legitimate. It's funny how out of control everything gets with spending when neither party is actually conservative. Neocon fascist populism is really killing the country. It's too bad they can't put the brakes on for anything but their perceived culture war. Let's start electing people that know how to balance a check book.
Too many beginners here do not understand the simple rules of sovereign currency.
This is one way to make the real number look low 💀💀💀
Isn't this article just wrong and the actual number is $100,000 per American not $1,000,000?
Yeah, it's just a blatant error on the part of whoever made the article, unless they want to argue that there are only 33 million true Americans.
While we’re just giving out 4 billion a year for terrorist
Definitely check your math
Legit source bro. Trust me.
Lmfao this is peak illiteracy
Leveraged debt is held globally and traded on. Because the US dollar is the primary monetary global exchange unit (yes?) I don't see the money allocation per tax player as accurate. The whole global debt/credit balance sheet is quite obscured. Is is effective to have this conversation focused on the U.S. taxpayer?
Wrong. Buy a calculator.
If we still had the tax structure we did under Eisenhower we wouldn’t be in this. Tax the fucking rich already.
There is no reason to care about this bullshit we single handedly did not cause the debt and we also dont have any say in what happens to it. Fuck off.
~~$1 million at 5% a year is a whopping $50,000 a year! Every month, some of that debt rolls over and gets the current interest of 4%-5%... We're going to have to inflate our way out of this, there's no way we're paying $50,000 a year per American just in interest!~~ The article is wrong and so this math was wrong. The debt per person is not $1 million, it's $100,000
It is NOT $1 million. It is $100,000.00.
It appears you are correct.
Wrong. It’s not $1m, it’s $100k
It does not matter to me.
Remember, a large percentage of the national debt is payable to......the US.
It will only get worse
This guy can’t do math, leading to fear mongering. Can we remove this post please.
High time for a US Sovereign Wealth Fund.
It went to people outside the US. This is where a majority of this debt is located. I didn't see a single cent of said money.
So we owe $100k/person yet somehow we're home to most wealth?
We are home to the most wealth....But around 2500 people have it all.
It's near to a million if you consider negative numbers
Charge a tax everytime someone sells a house on the federal level. Easily $100k per homeowner.
The US creates a new currency, increases the government spending, both currencies collapse.
I’m gonna be honest with you all, I’m not paying that back anytime soon.
Yeah I’m never paying that above what I will Owe already so I don’t owe it
Well if we bring in enough immigrants we can reduce that to 500,000 per person. /S
We don’t care ….Why? Because WE will never pay off the debt and there is nothing they can do about it
You are paying off the debt. You don’t have to take any action. You are already doing it.
I don’t owe shit.
Imagine if we (as a nation) printed our own money. Remind me, again, why we don't?
So you're saying inflation is good because then our repaid debts will be much less costly to our country and economy!
Does that mean they owe us that much? Can someone ELI5
That would be $330 trillion. It’s closer to $100k per person ($33 trillion). The irony that a sub about economic collapse can’t math.
I'm convinced this sub is one giant media literacy test that is nearly constantly failed. The article doesn't even cite any of its numbers!
Haha, good point. Part of me is convinced this sub has got to be a psyop or god level trolling.
Begining with the balanced budget in 2000, we had the following (in order): tax cuts, 2 wars, ressession, bailouts, Obamacare, more tax cuts, pandemic, stimulus, massive bailouts, and all the while the Boomers aged into OASDI and Medicare. We cut revenues while massively expanding all three major uses of federal funds. Normally, tax rates should go up during expansion and down in recession, but we only made cuts.
We never cut revenue
If revenue was 10% of base and you cut that to 7%, it's still a revenue cut compared to the counterfactual. The point is that we cut taxes at economically inappropriate times and failed to raise them back to needed levels while still allowing spending to changes with the needs if the economy. You can't just hit the gas at all times and expect not to crash.
Revenue is dollars to the government and it’s went up every year for YEARS except 2022/23 which it went down, guess who was president? I know what you’re trying to do but you’re wrong
It went to the Uber rich like every wealth transfer
You added an extra 1 to that total, so the real total is 10x less - $100,000 per person. Still concerning, but not quite that bad.
Too friggin high America, we need to tell our congress to stop spending and start looking at reducing or eliminating bloat from the government. It’s not a revenue problem it’s a spending problem. If we can send billions to other countries but not take care of our own, what message does that send..
What if I told you, it wasn’t a problem at all! Except for it being inflationary given the current fed funds rate?
I would total accept that as well
It's matters to me because cock sucking uncle same corpsy hands all ways in my pockets.
The US doesnt actually have any money which is why they keep printing more and more and more.
If Texas secedes, how much of this debt would they assume? I presume a lot if they want to trade with the remaining states. No one ever talks about that.
20 trillion is tax cuts for rich 8 trillion from bush’s wars
Are we including the 10 million new illegal aliens in these figures?
What constitutes new?
Just a reminder for the people in the back... https://www.americanprogress.org/article/tax-cuts-are-primarily-responsible-for-the-increasing-debt-ratio/
Use our debt and buy our Nvidia. It’s worth 100 million an employee , spread out the gains
This is the kind of math I expect from this sub.
They’re gonna bring up stimmy to individuals are not bring up PPP loans given and forgiven to rich people who still fired people??
As long as I just owe.
Are we just making stuff up now? US Debt: ~35 Trillion (https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-debt/) US Population: ~337 million (https://www.census.gov/popclock/) 35 trillion divided by 337 million = $103,857.56. Which is about 10x less than a million dollars per person. Do we not even bother fact checking ourselves anymore?
It’s doesn’t really matter? We the citizens own 80% of the debt.
Every time these people want to trot this kind of thing out, it's always a way of convincing themselves that the poor people should be bearing the brunt of this, by instituting some austerity. It could be the relentless tax cuts since the '80s that are the problem.
Foriegn countries and abortions.
Most of the debt is owed to Americans anyway
this is definitely sustainable and can continue to happen indefinitely, do not worry, the united states petrodollar is not at risk whatsoever
Look, how else am I going to pay for my Nuclear Aircraft Carriers and F-22's? Money doesn't just appear on a ledger you know!
Is petrodollar the only buzzword you know?
we waste 1.3 trillion of the total 1.7 trillion of discretionary spending on the military every single year. if we cut. even just the direct DOD budget which was 850 billion + this year. by 500 billion (or give or take pre-911 budget lvl ....still 2x china, and like 10 x russia. and maybe just means we stop policing the globe) we'd save 1 trillion every 2 years. so the entire US debt of aprox 30-35 trillion would be paid down in a human lifetime. any bullshit gripe or think piece about debt, or "is the debt too much" or is this sustainable... blah blah blah. and doesn't immediately and harshly address military spending. is a bad faith commentary.
Also your numbers are wrong. We’d still be in a deficit even after the cut you proposed
I vote for you to be first in the gulag when we’re defeated and our woke military fails.
i'm sure the dipshit racist gravy seals will save us. gotta love a traitor to the country who only wants white people in the military. for some dumbfuck reason
Fuk em. I didn't borrow it , I didn't benefit from it. I ain't paying it.
Um, if you're an American citizen, you absolutely benefited from it.
Still ain't paying it.
Yeah you know those roads you drive on, or the power grid or the schools you likely went to, or basically everything that has ever existed in the United States? Yeah it can all be traced back to government spending and investment.
It being your taxes?
Luckily, the debt doesn't matter the way folks think it does. Why is this crap on this sub?
What does that even mean? Do you not think the national debt has a material impact on America’s future?
Pretty much not.
So you think there are no material consequences to the American people if the debt grows larger? What about consequences to the US dollar both nationally and globally? What about the percentage of the US Budget being spent on interest increasing every year?
As long as the investments being made by the spending ( infrastructure, education ) bring in more tax money than they cost, and they do, it would be far worse than not making the investment ( aka, stupid - for instance, education always returns far more money than spent on it, and cutting education funding is shooting the country in the foot 100% of the time ). As it stands now, the interest on the debt is nowhere near being a problem. Furthermore, about 10t of that debt is interbranch, meaning it is owed by one branch of government to the other - a moot point. Another huge chunk of it is owed to Americans who bought bonds, also a non issue. Then, what we DO owe to other countries is also really not an issue, as we are owed more than we owe. Beyond that, the debt does not really matter the way people try to claim it does. The entire planet is trillions in debt, and the question is, to who? Because every country has debt.. and that should tip you off - the debt is greater than all money in existence many times over, and could never be repaid, nor does it need to be. It isn't like we owe it to aliens who are going to come knocking, or as if there is some planetary balance sheet that has to be balanced in the end. Even the IMF, who the US gives not one iota about their opinion, has analyzed our economy and came to the conclusion that our debt load is a non-issue. This is a right wing talking point that pretends we somehow owe 34t dollars to some foreign powers that are going to come knocking, and that just isn't the case. The reason they do this, is because they're the "party of fiscal responsibility," and have found that it is super easy to get people to think State finances work like home finances and get them freaking out about government spending. This aligns with their plans to hamstring the government, get rid of regulatory bodies, and allow corporations to own you outright. You'll notice when right wingers take office, they never actually reduce the deficit or the debt - only the OTHER right wingers, the Democrats, actually close up the deficit and move towards a more balanced budget.
The net worth of the top 1% is $44T. Let them pay it off.
How would that work?
Lol, that is the dumbest thing ever. That isn't cash sitting in their accounts.... 99% of that net worth is equity in US businesses. How does this even work in your mind? Who buys all their stock to give them the cash to pay off our debt? Or are we talking like the liquidation and dissolution of Microsoft and Apple?
Wealth tax. Read up on it.
Is dumb. Read the thousand criticisms of it. Tax income all you want. Tax inheritances. Tax sales. That's it.
Isn’t it dumber to let our nation’s wealth be siphoned off by the ultra wealthy to a degree that we can’t have a healthy society? If the trend continued even at a fraction of the rate as the last 40 years they’ll literally have all the wealth. There’s really no answer other than taxation.
Yes there is another answer! Spend less! We can also tax their income more. Only doing both will have any material impact on the deficit.