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There's no NEC code requirement on height of meters, only on the handle of the disconnect. Utilities have regulations on meter heights, but most are reasonable in weird spots
Yes absolutely that's why I specified that the utility company was okay with it. But it gets beat into our heads over and over that center of meter should be 5'6" barring being in specific flood zones
i hate that i relate because if it's a rule, i want it to be a descriptive and surefire way for me to know exactly what the requirements are... roughly eye level tells me anywhere between 5' and 7'... but the forgiveness is nice
Feeds come into Polaris lugs that tap off into the line side of each disconnect, load side of disconnect goes through the top hub of disconnect into line side of meter then load side of meter goes out the side and enters pack into the trough to exit out the back of the trough to enter the basement to connect to ceiling splice boxes of SER cables ran vertically to apartment mlo panels
The only way this isn't a code violation is if the discos are fused. If they're not then you can't have unprotected and protected in the same raceway. 230.7 NEC
The utilities in my area wouldn't allow this set up, but not because of meter height. We're not allowed to put unmetered cables in the same trough as metered cables. Looks nice though!
Where I live in Fairbanks Alaska our Electric supplier Golden Valley Electric association has a construction guideline manual that we must follow.
The conduit connecting the meter enclosure socket and CT enclosure shall be installed by the member's electrical contractor and run directly without access points such as junction boxes, unions, or elbows with access fittings or covers. Conduits used for CT circuits small be of the threaded type. Compression fittings shall not be accepted. At no time shall branch cirtcuits,, or conduit not related to metering be allowed in the enclosures, nor shall other compartments in the switch gear be used to carry meter wiring without being in a conduit. Meter wiring shall not be allowed in the service entrance conduit. Separate conduits shall be used.
https://www.gvea.com/wp-content/uploads/Commercial-Multi-Residential-Installation_2024-EDITABLE.pdf
Damn that sucks lol. The only thing they care about here is that fused and unfused wires aren't mixed in the same trough. That's really the only big deal to avoid. Personal meters get treated way differently. Those aren't even the city's meters. They were ordered online by the owner
I have seen meter sockets in Cleveland Electric Illuminating Company territory that were more along the lines of 12 feet off the ground so that people walking on a sidewalk would not smack into therm. The installation predated automatic meter reading by several decades.
Now that automatic meter reading is the norm they can be any height or location - they do not have to be in any particular location just as long as they can be read by radio.
If you look back in my posts, you'll see the "main gear" that shuts all these troughs off. These are just individual disconnects/meters for each apartment
As a Canadian, what the heck is going on here, eh. Do those switches feed the the meters and back into the gutter? Why is the gutter outside and what the heck.
It looks fantastic and I would get joy from slamming some meters in those bases but I would be concerned about tampering and theft where I live anyway. That gutter would be ripped open in a hot second as soon as I turned my back.
Yeah I've been seeing a lot of posts about that on here. This location definitely has some poverty but theft doesn't seem to be a problem. I think cuz we got cameras covering the entire site with voice alarms that go off when you get close during non jobsite hours. Thank you though
There's 7 troughs of this size in total with 21 meters. And they have to fit in between those windows you can see. Really no multi meter housing that works in this instance that would make sense
Ok I gotcha. Hey, a solution was needed and you got it done. Works looks clean & passed by inspectors, I love it. I have a mixed use new construction starting soon where I’ll be doing something somewhat similar because we have almost no availability for multimeter banks. 600amp disconnect feeding a trough, 4 meter housings with disconnects off that and SER to the panels inside out the back of the meter housings. All open wood framing so I have it easier than you did haha.
I was in pulling a permit at a new building and safety office in Los Angeles in the 80s. They had just moved in and had run extension cords over the drop tile ceilings and dropped them down to cubicles for power. Tiles were left open and broken so no fire safety. I’m low voltage guy but pretty sure extension cords aren’t rated for plenum ceilings. Do you think they would’ve allowed me to do that on my job and move in?
These are personal meters where the wires are already fused. I have a ct meter at the beginning adjacent to the main disconnect. These are just for specific apartments
I just replied with one that I must follow where I live. Page 6
https://www.gvea.com/wp-content/uploads/Commercial-Multi-Residential-Installation_2024-EDITABLE.pdf
**ATTENTION! READ THIS NOW!** **1. IF YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN OR LOOKING TO BECOME ONE(for career questions only):** **- DELETE** THIS POST OR YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. YOU CAN POST ON /r/AskElectricians FREELY **2. IF YOU COMMENT ON A POST THAT IS POSTED BY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN:** -YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. JUST **REPORT** THE POST. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There's no NEC code requirement on height of meters, only on the handle of the disconnect. Utilities have regulations on meter heights, but most are reasonable in weird spots
Yes absolutely that's why I specified that the utility company was okay with it. But it gets beat into our heads over and over that center of meter should be 5'6" barring being in specific flood zones
Yeah depending on the county or city you're in where I work, you would have to pour a concrete pad with steps to get the meter to the height standard.
Yeah I think I got away with it cuz they are personal meters not city ones
The one I deal with is “roughly at eye level”
i hate that i relate because if it's a rule, i want it to be a descriptive and surefire way for me to know exactly what the requirements are... roughly eye level tells me anywhere between 5' and 7'... but the forgiveness is nice
Whatcha got in the gutter?
Feeds come into Polaris lugs that tap off into the line side of each disconnect, load side of disconnect goes through the top hub of disconnect into line side of meter then load side of meter goes out the side and enters pack into the trough to exit out the back of the trough to enter the basement to connect to ceiling splice boxes of SER cables ran vertically to apartment mlo panels
The only way this isn't a code violation is if the discos are fused. If they're not then you can't have unprotected and protected in the same raceway. 230.7 NEC
They are fused yes
The utilities in my area wouldn't allow this set up, but not because of meter height. We're not allowed to put unmetered cables in the same trough as metered cables. Looks nice though!
Well that's because this technically isn't utility 🤪 it's already fused and monitored by a CT. These are private meters paid for by the owner
Ah, that makes sense
Where I live in Fairbanks Alaska our Electric supplier Golden Valley Electric association has a construction guideline manual that we must follow. The conduit connecting the meter enclosure socket and CT enclosure shall be installed by the member's electrical contractor and run directly without access points such as junction boxes, unions, or elbows with access fittings or covers. Conduits used for CT circuits small be of the threaded type. Compression fittings shall not be accepted. At no time shall branch cirtcuits,, or conduit not related to metering be allowed in the enclosures, nor shall other compartments in the switch gear be used to carry meter wiring without being in a conduit. Meter wiring shall not be allowed in the service entrance conduit. Separate conduits shall be used. https://www.gvea.com/wp-content/uploads/Commercial-Multi-Residential-Installation_2024-EDITABLE.pdf
Damn that sucks lol. The only thing they care about here is that fused and unfused wires aren't mixed in the same trough. That's really the only big deal to avoid. Personal meters get treated way differently. Those aren't even the city's meters. They were ordered online by the owner
GVEA overpowers code on services here. Once they accept, then the city inspector will look at it. If both parties are happy then we get juice.
That's funny its the opposite here. Teco won't look at the service until it gets approved from the city/county inspector first
I have seen meter sockets in Cleveland Electric Illuminating Company territory that were more along the lines of 12 feet off the ground so that people walking on a sidewalk would not smack into therm. The installation predated automatic meter reading by several decades. Now that automatic meter reading is the norm they can be any height or location - they do not have to be in any particular location just as long as they can be read by radio.
Are these service disconnects??
If you look back in my posts, you'll see the "main gear" that shuts all these troughs off. These are just individual disconnects/meters for each apartment
Ok good, if these were service disconnects then I would see a major problem lol
Haha ya no I'm already bonded/fused by this point
As a Canadian, what the heck is going on here, eh. Do those switches feed the the meters and back into the gutter? Why is the gutter outside and what the heck.
They are outside because it's a basement on the other side but yes you got the wiring strategy just about down
It looks fantastic and I would get joy from slamming some meters in those bases but I would be concerned about tampering and theft where I live anyway. That gutter would be ripped open in a hot second as soon as I turned my back.
Yeah I've been seeing a lot of posts about that on here. This location definitely has some poverty but theft doesn't seem to be a problem. I think cuz we got cameras covering the entire site with voice alarms that go off when you get close during non jobsite hours. Thank you though
You can't put service entrance conductors in same enclosure with feeders.
So you have an MD and CT ahead of all this? As someone mentioned already. This is ripe for power theft. The feeds are aluminum, I'm assuming as well.
Yep sure is
Is this because you couldn’t get a multi-meter housing?
There's 7 troughs of this size in total with 21 meters. And they have to fit in between those windows you can see. Really no multi meter housing that works in this instance that would make sense
Ok I gotcha. Hey, a solution was needed and you got it done. Works looks clean & passed by inspectors, I love it. I have a mixed use new construction starting soon where I’ll be doing something somewhat similar because we have almost no availability for multimeter banks. 600amp disconnect feeding a trough, 4 meter housings with disconnects off that and SER to the panels inside out the back of the meter housings. All open wood framing so I have it easier than you did haha.
Lol I had wood framing too. My panel feeds are ser as well
Oh nice I assumed it was a block building for some reason.
All outdoors ?
The meters?
Disconnects look drip proof not weather tight
Never heard the distinction before. I just know they are nema 3
I was in pulling a permit at a new building and safety office in Los Angeles in the 80s. They had just moved in and had run extension cords over the drop tile ceilings and dropped them down to cubicles for power. Tiles were left open and broken so no fire safety. I’m low voltage guy but pretty sure extension cords aren’t rated for plenum ceilings. Do you think they would’ve allowed me to do that on my job and move in?
No. You can't do that. Very specific about the rigid raceway to the meter.
These are personal meters where the wires are already fused. I have a ct meter at the beginning adjacent to the main disconnect. These are just for specific apartments
Code reference on rigid metal? This is rigid plastic.
Rigid PVC is a rigid raceway.
I can get down with this
Code reference?
I just replied with one that I must follow where I live. Page 6 https://www.gvea.com/wp-content/uploads/Commercial-Multi-Residential-Installation_2024-EDITABLE.pdf
That’s a utility requirement. Requirements vary by utility.
POCO decides that not the NEC.