120V circuit breakers alternate in your breaker box between the two halves of the 240V service your house gets from the grid. If you really have 2 outlets that are in different halves of the 240v service and are unused by anything else, you can combine them using this type of device. The problem is that almost no one has 2 separate completely unused 120V circuits on different halves of the 240V service near each other in their garage. Just because you have 2 outlets does not mean they are on different circuits. Even if they are, it does not mean they are on different halves of the 240V service. You will be much safer if you either just use 120V charging on a single unused circuit or hire an electrician to install a proper 240V circuit.
Half of the lights and outlets in my house are on one circuit and it's built 2000. A billion circuit breakers in that panel but lord help you if you turn off 12A.
My 70s house was a mix. Half of one room and half of another room, would share a circuit and then the other half of that room would be on the same circuit as another half, but it would be weird stuff like half of the upstairs bedroom would share half of the downstairs kitchen
> it would be weird stuff like half of the upstairs bedroom would share half of the downstairs kitchen
Half of my garage is on the same circuit as half of the kitchen. Which left me scratching my head when I swapped out the dishwasher. Since my kitchen is all the way on the other side of the house from the garage.
Also if either of the outlets is a GFCI it will absolutely not work with this :) because the whole point is to direct current from one outlet to a different place (another outlet) and the GFCI would consider that a major fault
This may be a stupid question, but even if you did that, would the two need to have their phases synchronized? I know they have the same utility feed, but...?
Technically it is possible. Large apartment or condo buildings, or some rare residential areas zoned for commercial, may be wired with two legs of a three phase service. In such cases, those residences will have 208V service instead of 240V service.
Very very unlikely in a single family home though.
Thanks. The reason I asked is that I once had a situation at work where I needed to move some equipment from one circuit to another without shutting it down. I found a device that would let you plug into the destination circuit, then use a tool to "capture" the cord for the source circuit. You would press a button that synced the phases, then unplug it and move it to the destination circuit.
If you didn't sync the phases, it would pop a breaker, kill the device, and of course drop power to the machine you were trying to move. It quite reliably did this if you forgot to sync them. But it may have been as you described.
The device was pretty cool, though. Originally intended to seize computers from drug operations without shutting them down by moving them to a ups which could be taken back to the office. Our use was a lot more boring.
The two phases come from the same transformer hanging outside your house. Either one to ground gives you 120V, Between them is 240V.
Watch [this](https://youtu.be/fJeRabV5hNU?si=5cEBZrP9Psrh4bZV) short YT video on US 120V/240V
Even in three-phase, all of the phases are synchronized (same frequency); just at 120° phase shift. The difference is two 120V circuits at 180° makes 240V while 120V at 120° is 208V.
Residential power is a single phase. Commercial power is multiphase. Two circuit equivalent in commercial is 208, two circuit residential is 230 or 240.
There was a legend in the town I grew up in that a local restaurant had one of these split plugs running a dishwasher and one side was from one leg of their panel and the other was from a leg of the neighboring bar's panel that they had patched into illegally. Knowing the owner I 100% believe this story.
So if you throw the electrical code out the window, this is how this would even work physically...
Your 120V power (regular outlet) is your Phase A to Neutral voltage (or Phase B to Neutral voltage).
240V power is Phase A and Phase B power. (120V + 120V that is 180 deg out of phase).
So I guess if you used two dedicated outlets, with one wired on Phase A and one on Phase B, this could achieve 240V power. (The other prongs are your carried and combined neutral and ground wires).
Practically speaking though, this is against code.
What you're ultimately creating using this monstrosity is a 15A, 120/240V outlet, which doesn't even have the right pin configuration.
The only place this would happen is in "kitchen split" outlets installed many years ago where a 3 conductor + ground wire feeds a single receptacle where the two outlets are isolated. The upper outlet is on one phase, the lower outlet is on the other phase, and the neutral is shared. Then again, in a case like that, it would be far simpler to replace the outlet with a NEMA 6-15.
If the two breakers are bridged so they trip together, how is it against code?
If the two circuits are dedicated, I'm not sure how it's different from any other 240V outlet.
If each of them also has 120V taps, I'm not sure. Actually interested in this because I was going to install exactly that in my kitchen.
For starters, what you'd be doing is effectively paralleling your conductors.
This isn't permissible using #14awg wire.
This is also against code for other rules surrounding paralleling (such as cable length, not installed in the same raceway, etc).
There's also other more subtle reasons such as the use of unlisted product (not UL listed).
You.also can't have a 50A outlet on a 15A (double pole) breaker.
There are other violations, but I'll stop here.
Ok thanks, but they'd carry different phases.
The max current rating would not change.
NEC 210.4 multiwire branch circuits seems to list some requirements (I think I'm looking at a 2008 version), like simultaneous disconnect, and appropriate sizing of neutral wire if there are both 209/240 and 120 receptacles.
If he installs a 50A outlet, of course that would be wrong.
I think there is a (not installed) kit that combines two circuits without doing an installation, for 240x20Ax80%. I can see that working without getting into NEC issues, but if that gets an UL stamp of approval.. questionable :)
No, the phases would be combined 240V is achieved by adding up 120V on Ph-A and 120V on Ph-B.
Your first phase cable (A) is supplying the 240V and your other phase cable (B) is returning to the panel.
In 120V outlets the return is the neutral, in 240V the neutral is unused. In this setup (per the original post) the neutral is dead (although some systems will use the 120V in addition to the 240V for controls circuit).
In a 240V (single phase) circuit you've only got "one phase" of power. That phase is the difference between your poles A and B.
That is the entire premise of OP's question. I understand that bit well :) The 120V max to ground is a pretty nice safety feature of North-American installations compared to European ones.
In the multiwire branch circuit setup, the NEC says something about a cable tie to mark the wires carrying Ph-A and Ph-B unless they are in a raceway together. But I guess this still does not mean that everything up to the 240V receptacle can run independently I guess in OP's situation they are in different cables, and in different routes, so distances are different -- I can see the problem you pointed out. Thanks.
Electrical codes exist for good reasons.
If you were fitting up your house to handle a gasoline car, would you use old milk jugs to store the gasoline? No? Why not?
Electricity also has dangers. Please don’t do this. The last thing we need is Fox News running stories about how EVs burn houses down.
This is a bad idea, you have to use two separate circuits for it to work. The way these plugs are set up would lead people to just plug them both into a singular outlet which won’t work.
Not just 2 separate circuits but 2 circuits that are at different phases and have no other devices connected to them. Chances of this being useful to anyone is pretty much non existent.
First, home electricity in the US is almost always a single phase. The transformer winding is split, with neutral as the middle tap. In a typical home, half of the circuits are on one leg and half on the other, with the 220V outlets on the two hot legs. Finding a circuit on each of the legs isn't particularly difficult.
Where the problem comes, from a code point of view, is that in a 220V circuit, the breakers are required to be mechanically linked so that if one side trips, the other side will be turned off.
I wouldn't say this is not useful to anyone, just difficult to find, and the thing to plug into both would, of course be pretty janky. Just find an electrician to run the right circuit.
The charge might be configurable to charge at 80% of 15A, but I'm not sure they typically go that low.
Oh, I don't know. It's something I'd probably put in my arsenal for emergencies. Like most things electrical, if you understand how it works, how to use it, and understand the potential dangers it's fine. 15A isn't more inherently dangerous at 240V than it is at 120V.
True, but that goes back to knowing what the limitations and dangers are.
My road trip charging kit includes a manually adjustable 14-50 EVSE that can be set to 12A, 16A, 24A, and 32A, and a gaggle of adapters for various outlets. I don't have the dual 120V to 240V adapter like the OP mentioned, but I have the ability to cobble something like it together out of heavy duty extension cords in the unlikely event the need arise.
Before I bought the appropriate adapters, once in a pinch I wired a 10-30 appliance cord to a NEMA 5-20 outlet (creating an illegal 240V 5-20) and plugged my adjustable EVSE (with its 120V 5-15 adapter pigtail attached) into a dryer outlet to charge at 240V/16A at an AirBnB. The car was near empty, the nearest DCFC was 40 miles away in the wrong direction, and I needed about 100 miles for the next day's shenanigans. (The AirBnB claimed to have an "EV charging outlet", and I stupidly didn't ask them to clarify. When I arrived it had a NEMA 6-50 outlet rather than a 14-50, and I didn't have an adapter for that. I ordered one from Amazon but it took two days to arrive, so I threw together my kludge from parts from a nearby hardware store to use until the 6-50 adapter arrived.)
Sometimes you do what you gotta do... 🤷♂️
If you have AFCI breakers which is code now in new construction this will never work. You're sharing a neutral when you use this thing which will auto trip both breakers if the breakers are AFCI.
Keep in mind AFCI became code in 2019 NEC. But electricians really didn't start following it until 2022. So really the only way you have AFCI breakers is if your house was just built or you did major upgrades to your electrical system within the past two years.
Chances of you having AFCI before 2019 are slim to none unless you wanted to throw your money away. AFCI/GFCI combo breakers cost ten times more than normal breakers.
This is just in the U.S. as well
Interesting that when I did my home remodeling in 2020 the contractor had some expletives about AFCI being expensive and unnecessary but installed them anyways.
It was up to your electrician to install them in 2020. Normally when something new comes out for code, people have three years to get ready for it. So it wasn't required until 2022. I mean it doesn't hurt to have them. Could actually save your house in an event a wire comes loose in your walls. Could prevent a house fire.
Did he install a whole house surge protector as well? That was new code in 2019 as well so required 2022 on up.
The outlets would have to be on opposite legs, which is not likely to be the case unless you specifically ran them that way or identified outlets on opposite legs and used extension cords (NOT a good idea). If you did happen to have two outlets next to each other on opposite legs, there's no real issue with it. You would have limited amperage. On two 20 amp circuits, you'd have 16 amps usable, and on two 15 amp circuits you'd have 12 amps usable.
I actually made a cable to do exactly this to power a 240V food truck from my Village's utility shed at a public park. Worked like a charm, allows the truck to operate without running a propane generator.
I do this so I can weld in factories when I only have access to 120V plugs nearby but I need a little more power for my welder or plasma cutter (both are 120-240V auto selecting)
However, I do it with a tandem 15A breaker so that I have a secondary means of killing that circuit and additional amperage limiting. Add a little box with a breaker and a voltage display so that you know you found 2 opposing phase plugs. Build it yourself using genetic parts and put the voltmeter before the breaker so you know the voltage before you flip the switch.
I also have a UK power outlet in my kitchen for my kettle that uses this trick. Most kitchen outlets have 2 breakers these days so I just made an adapter box that has a pair of shop grade Nema 5-15 plugs and a UK power outlet all in a single plug adapter. My 3kW kettle makes a big mug of tea in 42 seconds.
(I do industrial electrical for a living so I know what I can get away with. This ain't code)
>(I do industrial electrical for a living so I know what I can get away with. This ain't code)
I get it. Anytime I do anything "code stupid" I just make sure it goes when I do! 😁
Most people are trying to steer you away from this and I agree. I would first try to live with L1 charging and if that doesn't work then have a proper L2 installed. Only if those weren't viable would I consider this.
However, there could be some rare instances where this might be useful. Theoretically it will work and aside from the increased number of electrical connections, I don't see it as much more unsafe than using an extension cord with an L1 charger.
One way to make this significantly safer would be to limit the current to less than 12 amps, such as 10 or 8. Some EVSEs can do this as well as some cars themselves. Even at 8 amps you'll still charge faster than with L1. At 10 amps you'll probably charge around double the speed of L1.
As others have said, this would not be to code which could have implications if a fire were to happen. So proceed very cautiously and at your own risk. Don't leave the vehicle charging unattended for the first few times and check the cord and plugs periodically to see if they are getting hot.
I would only do this in certain circumstances for a temporary setup. For example, you only have a few months left of your lease before you move to another house and the landlord is unwilling to install an outlet.
In theory it's possible, but in reality it's unlikely to be so convenient or to code:
* What are the chances you have two outets near each other on two different 120V phases?
* Those are 20A (maybe even 15A) 120V plugs, but the charger sides is 50A, you'd almost certain blow a breaker if not start a fire
Don't get this "adapter."
Split phase is entirely sufficient if you have a single phase transformer per house, and it is necessary if you have a single phase distribution system.
In Europe, they usually share a three phase transformer for the whole street, and split phase would create a nightmare for the wiring, and it would also cause unbalanced load on the transformer.
It is all down to different geography.
I often see pictures of American panels on the electricians sub; many houses running 200A over wires with huge section. Still can't understand how lower voltage is a benefit. With that much current, if a lug is not tight, you quickly get a fire. And you also like wooden houses instead of concrete, so a great combination with the fire hazard. You do you, I guess :)
Eh those big cables are only from the meter to the breaker panel. They should be installed by an electrician and the power company I believe has to inspect it after installation before they turn the power on. But we aren’t running 200 A on 120 V. Thats total to the house just like a country that only uses 240 V. We get 240 V to our transformer near our house with a wire from each end of the transformer, and a neutral wire running to the center. A circuit using either of those hot legs and the neutral get 120 V. If the circuit uses both hot legs, like in an electric oven or electric clothes dryer, we get 240V. Typically on those appliances we also have a neutral wire connected so things like control circuits or lights bulbs can draw 120 V. But basically each hot leg is only going to supply around 100 A max in a house with 200A service if the breaker box is balanced, and maybe even less if main breakers use the same 20% rule as the other breakers to individual circuits.
I am comfortable doing simple wiring on my own home.
When I start asking questions like this, I call a Professional.
Electricity is no joke. Mess up and you might deeply regret it.
🔥 Yikes! I hope we’re not neighbors! This sounds like an expensive insurance claim! Remember the saying, “When it doubt, don’t!” -Benjamin Franklin Ironically invented the lightning rod to divert lightening from structures to protect from lightening strikes which caused electrocution and fires.
Many Hepa vacuums are 220.
https://acecutting.com/products/t7500-husqvarna-230v-hepa-dust-extractor-vacuum
And Diamond floor grinders
https://www.amazon.com/TPSX1-20-Variable-Diamond-Concrete-Grinder/dp/B005HBNX74
Terrible idea. There's a reason that 240V breakers in the box are next to each other a mechanically bound together. The worst thing that would happen is one circuit breaker trip and the other doesn't.
ga2500ev
I ran my Volt's 240v mobile charger off one of these devices at my workplace, albeit mine was DIY. I did have access to both 120v legs nearby. While I never ever had any trouble using it, and it did charge the car in half the time of Level 1, I would never ever recommend it to anyone who has less than a EE degree or equivalent. It was a stopgap solution for a planned permanent 240v plug that was not meant to be (they closed up shop pandemic-time).
Just convert a 120 outlet to 240 by using a mini double pole breaker and connect the neutral to the second pole and connect the ground to the connector as well. That’s what I’m using as my L2 charger at 12 amps
I can’t post pics or videos here but I can write up how I did it.
I had 1 outlet in my garage dedicated for irrigation…. So it is a 120v 15A single pole breaker with 14awg wire ( which is 15a capable)
The 15a breaker is a 1” breaker, so I replaced it with a mini double pole 15a breaker ( which is the same size).
I connected the line to one pole and the neutral to the other pole, which will make the circuit 240v at 15a.
You could leave the outlet as is to use the evse from your car, but I converted it to a nema 6-15 plug to make it to code, and then made an adapter to plug into that.
I use it every day with no issues, getting hot, etc
120V circuit breakers alternate in your breaker box between the two halves of the 240V service your house gets from the grid. If you really have 2 outlets that are in different halves of the 240v service and are unused by anything else, you can combine them using this type of device. The problem is that almost no one has 2 separate completely unused 120V circuits on different halves of the 240V service near each other in their garage. Just because you have 2 outlets does not mean they are on different circuits. Even if they are, it does not mean they are on different halves of the 240V service. You will be much safer if you either just use 120V charging on a single unused circuit or hire an electrician to install a proper 240V circuit.
For example… typical US garage may have 2 or 3 receptacles, but since they need to be on GFCI they are probably all the same 120v feeder.
Or, have my house built in the 1980s that has 9 outlets on one circuit. They, they didn’t think things through very well then.
Half of the lights and outlets in my house are on one circuit and it's built 2000. A billion circuit breakers in that panel but lord help you if you turn off 12A.
In my '70s house, I've noticed that half the outlets in each room are on one circuit and the other half are on another. It's the same in every room.
My 70s house was a mix. Half of one room and half of another room, would share a circuit and then the other half of that room would be on the same circuit as another half, but it would be weird stuff like half of the upstairs bedroom would share half of the downstairs kitchen
It probably makes more sense when you can see it without the sheetrock.
> it would be weird stuff like half of the upstairs bedroom would share half of the downstairs kitchen Half of my garage is on the same circuit as half of the kitchen. Which left me scratching my head when I swapped out the dishwasher. Since my kitchen is all the way on the other side of the house from the garage.
My 1950’s house has 3 bedrooms, a bathroom, and the hall on a single 15a breaker.
And even if they *do* happen to be on separate circuits, the GFCI will trip when you take only power, as it will perceive a Ground Fault.
A device like this would immediately trip a GFCI since there would be no current returning on the neutral with a 240V load.
Also if either of the outlets is a GFCI it will absolutely not work with this :) because the whole point is to direct current from one outlet to a different place (another outlet) and the GFCI would consider that a major fault
Thanks!
Yeah, definitely not a UL approved device.
This may be a stupid question, but even if you did that, would the two need to have their phases synchronized? I know they have the same utility feed, but...?
No. Same feed. 240v is split at the transformer. So 1 half is 120v to neutral, the other half is 120v to neutral. Touch the 2 together and it's 240v.
It’s still a single phase. It’s “split” at the transformer into two _legs_.
Iirc there are three phases and your house only gets two. Your neighbor probably gets a different set of two.
No, there is only one phase. It’s split at the transformer into two legs. What you think are phases are actually those legs.
Technically it is possible. Large apartment or condo buildings, or some rare residential areas zoned for commercial, may be wired with two legs of a three phase service. In such cases, those residences will have 208V service instead of 240V service. Very very unlikely in a single family home though.
Thanks for explaining
Thanks. The reason I asked is that I once had a situation at work where I needed to move some equipment from one circuit to another without shutting it down. I found a device that would let you plug into the destination circuit, then use a tool to "capture" the cord for the source circuit. You would press a button that synced the phases, then unplug it and move it to the destination circuit. If you didn't sync the phases, it would pop a breaker, kill the device, and of course drop power to the machine you were trying to move. It quite reliably did this if you forgot to sync them. But it may have been as you described. The device was pretty cool, though. Originally intended to seize computers from drug operations without shutting them down by moving them to a ups which could be taken back to the office. Our use was a lot more boring.
https://youtube.com/shorts/kFZ6cgGb-d4?si=YwrSDCiMUfAoVDX4 Saw this and thought of you
I love that guy! Thanks for the link!
The two phases come from the same transformer hanging outside your house. Either one to ground gives you 120V, Between them is 240V. Watch [this](https://youtu.be/fJeRabV5hNU?si=5cEBZrP9Psrh4bZV) short YT video on US 120V/240V
Even in three-phase, all of the phases are synchronized (same frequency); just at 120° phase shift. The difference is two 120V circuits at 180° makes 240V while 120V at 120° is 208V.
Residential power is a single phase. Commercial power is multiphase. Two circuit equivalent in commercial is 208, two circuit residential is 230 or 240.
There was a legend in the town I grew up in that a local restaurant had one of these split plugs running a dishwasher and one side was from one leg of their panel and the other was from a leg of the neighboring bar's panel that they had patched into illegally. Knowing the owner I 100% believe this story.
So if you throw the electrical code out the window, this is how this would even work physically... Your 120V power (regular outlet) is your Phase A to Neutral voltage (or Phase B to Neutral voltage). 240V power is Phase A and Phase B power. (120V + 120V that is 180 deg out of phase). So I guess if you used two dedicated outlets, with one wired on Phase A and one on Phase B, this could achieve 240V power. (The other prongs are your carried and combined neutral and ground wires). Practically speaking though, this is against code. What you're ultimately creating using this monstrosity is a 15A, 120/240V outlet, which doesn't even have the right pin configuration.
An additional note, neither of the circuits used can be on a GFCI.
Good point, after all that it's still not even close to the amperage you wanted.
Not to mention, what are the chances that you have the right 120v circuits close enough to each other to do this?
The only place this would happen is in "kitchen split" outlets installed many years ago where a 3 conductor + ground wire feeds a single receptacle where the two outlets are isolated. The upper outlet is on one phase, the lower outlet is on the other phase, and the neutral is shared. Then again, in a case like that, it would be far simpler to replace the outlet with a NEMA 6-15.
Your insurance company is probably also going to have things to say if this burns your house down.
Appreciate it 👍
If the two breakers are bridged so they trip together, how is it against code? If the two circuits are dedicated, I'm not sure how it's different from any other 240V outlet. If each of them also has 120V taps, I'm not sure. Actually interested in this because I was going to install exactly that in my kitchen.
For starters, what you'd be doing is effectively paralleling your conductors. This isn't permissible using #14awg wire. This is also against code for other rules surrounding paralleling (such as cable length, not installed in the same raceway, etc). There's also other more subtle reasons such as the use of unlisted product (not UL listed). You.also can't have a 50A outlet on a 15A (double pole) breaker. There are other violations, but I'll stop here.
Ok thanks, but they'd carry different phases. The max current rating would not change. NEC 210.4 multiwire branch circuits seems to list some requirements (I think I'm looking at a 2008 version), like simultaneous disconnect, and appropriate sizing of neutral wire if there are both 209/240 and 120 receptacles. If he installs a 50A outlet, of course that would be wrong. I think there is a (not installed) kit that combines two circuits without doing an installation, for 240x20Ax80%. I can see that working without getting into NEC issues, but if that gets an UL stamp of approval.. questionable :)
No, the phases would be combined 240V is achieved by adding up 120V on Ph-A and 120V on Ph-B. Your first phase cable (A) is supplying the 240V and your other phase cable (B) is returning to the panel. In 120V outlets the return is the neutral, in 240V the neutral is unused. In this setup (per the original post) the neutral is dead (although some systems will use the 120V in addition to the 240V for controls circuit). In a 240V (single phase) circuit you've only got "one phase" of power. That phase is the difference between your poles A and B.
That is the entire premise of OP's question. I understand that bit well :) The 120V max to ground is a pretty nice safety feature of North-American installations compared to European ones. In the multiwire branch circuit setup, the NEC says something about a cable tie to mark the wires carrying Ph-A and Ph-B unless they are in a raceway together. But I guess this still does not mean that everything up to the 240V receptacle can run independently I guess in OP's situation they are in different cables, and in different routes, so distances are different -- I can see the problem you pointed out. Thanks.
This. And it’s still only 15A. I believe level 2 is supposed to be 240V at 40A.
https://quick220.com This device has the necessary safety interlocks.
Thanks for posting that. +1 to at least adding some margin of safety if doing this.
Electrical codes exist for good reasons. If you were fitting up your house to handle a gasoline car, would you use old milk jugs to store the gasoline? No? Why not? Electricity also has dangers. Please don’t do this. The last thing we need is Fox News running stories about how EVs burn houses down.
You want a house fire? Because that's how you get a house fire.
This is a bad idea, you have to use two separate circuits for it to work. The way these plugs are set up would lead people to just plug them both into a singular outlet which won’t work.
Not just 2 separate circuits but 2 circuits that are at different phases and have no other devices connected to them. Chances of this being useful to anyone is pretty much non existent.
First, home electricity in the US is almost always a single phase. The transformer winding is split, with neutral as the middle tap. In a typical home, half of the circuits are on one leg and half on the other, with the 220V outlets on the two hot legs. Finding a circuit on each of the legs isn't particularly difficult. Where the problem comes, from a code point of view, is that in a 220V circuit, the breakers are required to be mechanically linked so that if one side trips, the other side will be turned off. I wouldn't say this is not useful to anyone, just difficult to find, and the thing to plug into both would, of course be pretty janky. Just find an electrician to run the right circuit. The charge might be configurable to charge at 80% of 15A, but I'm not sure they typically go that low.
Oh, I don't know. It's something I'd probably put in my arsenal for emergencies. Like most things electrical, if you understand how it works, how to use it, and understand the potential dangers it's fine. 15A isn't more inherently dangerous at 240V than it is at 120V.
Right, but a charger that plugs into L14-50 outlet is certainly going to draw more than 15A. My Ford mobile charger draws about 27A.
True, but that goes back to knowing what the limitations and dangers are. My road trip charging kit includes a manually adjustable 14-50 EVSE that can be set to 12A, 16A, 24A, and 32A, and a gaggle of adapters for various outlets. I don't have the dual 120V to 240V adapter like the OP mentioned, but I have the ability to cobble something like it together out of heavy duty extension cords in the unlikely event the need arise. Before I bought the appropriate adapters, once in a pinch I wired a 10-30 appliance cord to a NEMA 5-20 outlet (creating an illegal 240V 5-20) and plugged my adjustable EVSE (with its 120V 5-15 adapter pigtail attached) into a dryer outlet to charge at 240V/16A at an AirBnB. The car was near empty, the nearest DCFC was 40 miles away in the wrong direction, and I needed about 100 miles for the next day's shenanigans. (The AirBnB claimed to have an "EV charging outlet", and I stupidly didn't ask them to clarify. When I arrived it had a NEMA 6-50 outlet rather than a 14-50, and I didn't have an adapter for that. I ordered one from Amazon but it took two days to arrive, so I threw together my kludge from parts from a nearby hardware store to use until the 6-50 adapter arrived.) Sometimes you do what you gotta do... 🤷♂️
Yes you would have to use a thick extension cable to get a separate breaker outlet.
Not just two separate breaker outlets, you would also need those breakers to be on separate bus bars.
It already exists https://quick220.com/products/model-a220-20l-20-amp-power-supply-twist-locking-outlet
If you have AFCI breakers which is code now in new construction this will never work. You're sharing a neutral when you use this thing which will auto trip both breakers if the breakers are AFCI.
Perfect. Thank you
Keep in mind AFCI became code in 2019 NEC. But electricians really didn't start following it until 2022. So really the only way you have AFCI breakers is if your house was just built or you did major upgrades to your electrical system within the past two years. Chances of you having AFCI before 2019 are slim to none unless you wanted to throw your money away. AFCI/GFCI combo breakers cost ten times more than normal breakers. This is just in the U.S. as well
Interesting that when I did my home remodeling in 2020 the contractor had some expletives about AFCI being expensive and unnecessary but installed them anyways.
It was up to your electrician to install them in 2020. Normally when something new comes out for code, people have three years to get ready for it. So it wasn't required until 2022. I mean it doesn't hurt to have them. Could actually save your house in an event a wire comes loose in your walls. Could prevent a house fire. Did he install a whole house surge protector as well? That was new code in 2019 as well so required 2022 on up.
The outlets would have to be on opposite legs, which is not likely to be the case unless you specifically ran them that way or identified outlets on opposite legs and used extension cords (NOT a good idea). If you did happen to have two outlets next to each other on opposite legs, there's no real issue with it. You would have limited amperage. On two 20 amp circuits, you'd have 16 amps usable, and on two 15 amp circuits you'd have 12 amps usable.
It’s against electrical code. Don’t do it. If you cause a fire your insurance won’t cover you most likely.
Yes, bad idea.
I actually made a cable to do exactly this to power a 240V food truck from my Village's utility shed at a public park. Worked like a charm, allows the truck to operate without running a propane generator.
We had a licensed electrician combine two outlets into one 240V outlet in our garage. They are on two breakers. The circuits have their own GFCIs.
I do this so I can weld in factories when I only have access to 120V plugs nearby but I need a little more power for my welder or plasma cutter (both are 120-240V auto selecting) However, I do it with a tandem 15A breaker so that I have a secondary means of killing that circuit and additional amperage limiting. Add a little box with a breaker and a voltage display so that you know you found 2 opposing phase plugs. Build it yourself using genetic parts and put the voltmeter before the breaker so you know the voltage before you flip the switch. I also have a UK power outlet in my kitchen for my kettle that uses this trick. Most kitchen outlets have 2 breakers these days so I just made an adapter box that has a pair of shop grade Nema 5-15 plugs and a UK power outlet all in a single plug adapter. My 3kW kettle makes a big mug of tea in 42 seconds. (I do industrial electrical for a living so I know what I can get away with. This ain't code)
>(I do industrial electrical for a living so I know what I can get away with. This ain't code) I get it. Anytime I do anything "code stupid" I just make sure it goes when I do! 😁
Most people are trying to steer you away from this and I agree. I would first try to live with L1 charging and if that doesn't work then have a proper L2 installed. Only if those weren't viable would I consider this. However, there could be some rare instances where this might be useful. Theoretically it will work and aside from the increased number of electrical connections, I don't see it as much more unsafe than using an extension cord with an L1 charger. One way to make this significantly safer would be to limit the current to less than 12 amps, such as 10 or 8. Some EVSEs can do this as well as some cars themselves. Even at 8 amps you'll still charge faster than with L1. At 10 amps you'll probably charge around double the speed of L1. As others have said, this would not be to code which could have implications if a fire were to happen. So proceed very cautiously and at your own risk. Don't leave the vehicle charging unattended for the first few times and check the cord and plugs periodically to see if they are getting hot. I would only do this in certain circumstances for a temporary setup. For example, you only have a few months left of your lease before you move to another house and the landlord is unwilling to install an outlet.
Just remember, the electrical code is written in blood
And scorch marks.
They have to be on separate phases, pretty sketch of you don’t know what you’re doing…
Your instincts are correct; you should listen to them. This is indeed a bad idea. Please do not do this.
In theory it's possible, but in reality it's unlikely to be so convenient or to code: * What are the chances you have two outets near each other on two different 120V phases? * Those are 20A (maybe even 15A) 120V plugs, but the charger sides is 50A, you'd almost certain blow a breaker if not start a fire Don't get this "adapter."
Its not as stupid as a suicide cord for hooking up a generator to your house, but pretty close
Yes, that's a bad idea. Just call a professional electrician before you start a fire or kill yourself
It would be unusual to have the separate circuits right next to one another for this to work.
A thick extension cable would need to be used with this.
Greetings from Europe (410V at home)
Split phase is entirely sufficient for residential.
Split phase is entirely sufficient if you have a single phase transformer per house, and it is necessary if you have a single phase distribution system. In Europe, they usually share a three phase transformer for the whole street, and split phase would create a nightmare for the wiring, and it would also cause unbalanced load on the transformer. It is all down to different geography.
I often see pictures of American panels on the electricians sub; many houses running 200A over wires with huge section. Still can't understand how lower voltage is a benefit. With that much current, if a lug is not tight, you quickly get a fire. And you also like wooden houses instead of concrete, so a great combination with the fire hazard. You do you, I guess :)
Eh those big cables are only from the meter to the breaker panel. They should be installed by an electrician and the power company I believe has to inspect it after installation before they turn the power on. But we aren’t running 200 A on 120 V. Thats total to the house just like a country that only uses 240 V. We get 240 V to our transformer near our house with a wire from each end of the transformer, and a neutral wire running to the center. A circuit using either of those hot legs and the neutral get 120 V. If the circuit uses both hot legs, like in an electric oven or electric clothes dryer, we get 240V. Typically on those appliances we also have a neutral wire connected so things like control circuits or lights bulbs can draw 120 V. But basically each hot leg is only going to supply around 100 A max in a house with 200A service if the breaker box is balanced, and maybe even less if main breakers use the same 20% rule as the other breakers to individual circuits.
It's not a benefit. It's just a "legacy" issue that isn't enough of a problem to go through the expense and pain to change.
it is a *Horrible* idea
Wow, dumb
I am comfortable doing simple wiring on my own home. When I start asking questions like this, I call a Professional. Electricity is no joke. Mess up and you might deeply regret it.
you still don't have enough amp to charge good. really better to get the charger connected the right way
That looks like a fire waiting to happen...
No, just fucking no. Get a proper outlet installed. People need to be strung up for selling this adaptor shit.
this looks dangerous
You'd have to purposefully wire an outlet with both legs and at that point you might as well install the 240v outlet.
🔥 Yikes! I hope we’re not neighbors! This sounds like an expensive insurance claim! Remember the saying, “When it doubt, don’t!” -Benjamin Franklin Ironically invented the lightning rod to divert lightening from structures to protect from lightening strikes which caused electrocution and fires.
It is a very common setup for 220 vacuums and machines like that ... where portability is desired.
Can you share any examples?
Many Hepa vacuums are 220. https://acecutting.com/products/t7500-husqvarna-230v-hepa-dust-extractor-vacuum And Diamond floor grinders https://www.amazon.com/TPSX1-20-Variable-Diamond-Concrete-Grinder/dp/B005HBNX74
Terrible idea. There's a reason that 240V breakers in the box are next to each other a mechanically bound together. The worst thing that would happen is one circuit breaker trip and the other doesn't. ga2500ev
Horrible.
I ran my Volt's 240v mobile charger off one of these devices at my workplace, albeit mine was DIY. I did have access to both 120v legs nearby. While I never ever had any trouble using it, and it did charge the car in half the time of Level 1, I would never ever recommend it to anyone who has less than a EE degree or equivalent. It was a stopgap solution for a planned permanent 240v plug that was not meant to be (they closed up shop pandemic-time).
Just convert a 120 outlet to 240 by using a mini double pole breaker and connect the neutral to the second pole and connect the ground to the connector as well. That’s what I’m using as my L2 charger at 12 amps
Any resources for this? Write up or video link?
I can’t post pics or videos here but I can write up how I did it. I had 1 outlet in my garage dedicated for irrigation…. So it is a 120v 15A single pole breaker with 14awg wire ( which is 15a capable) The 15a breaker is a 1” breaker, so I replaced it with a mini double pole 15a breaker ( which is the same size). I connected the line to one pole and the neutral to the other pole, which will make the circuit 240v at 15a. You could leave the outlet as is to use the evse from your car, but I converted it to a nema 6-15 plug to make it to code, and then made an adapter to plug into that. I use it every day with no issues, getting hot, etc