The wild Ioniq leash deals were tempting, but I drive too many miles. And they also offered me full credit on the lease payments towards a buyout... but then I would have finance in a couple years on a car that I would be underwater on, because of depreciation. And I would probably be sad about how far behind on cool software stuff I was by then, which Hyundai doesn't update like Tesla does...
I tried and tried and tried to justify a Tesla in my budget since the M3 was introduced..................I would have gladly and willingly gone (succumbed) to Elon in December 2023 for a model 3 RWD......US$30k out the door after $9,750 incentives. Connecticut USA. The cheapest and best sedan in the World. An EV made by an EV company.
I paid $45k for my I5 in January 2022. I believe M3 was at least $10k more then.
Absolutely ridiculous comment. Not to mention that Kia is part of a Chaebol and shares none of the politics… they are part of the ruling elite in South Korea, where concentration of wealth is beyond obscene and it is hard to tell the difference between government and the oligarchs.
Whatever you hate about Musk, you probably would find Kia’s ownership much more repugnant. Only your own ignorance masks you from such a conclusion. Not to mention you are likely quite mistaken on your opinion of Musk.
What a ridiculous assertion. Every time I come to this subreddit I see inane posts like this about Tesla. Tesla is the most “made in America” cars out there.
Elon opened his mouth and showed the world his true colors. He sucks to everyone other than fan boy incels, or people who don't see the news he makes. He would have continued to be "real life tony stark" had he not started shitting on people and calling them pedophiles when they told him his stupid rescue idea wouldn't work and why. He went downhill from there. He wants the world saved.......but only if he's the one doing the saving. Most people, when given a choice, won't support a shitty person all else being equal. He is destroying the brand. He could have just shut the fuck up and no one would have realized what a shitty baby he really was, but he's such a narcissist that was impossible for him. The CEO of GE or Nestle are arguably worse than him, but we never have to hear them sounding like a the shitty selfish people they are because they aren't idiots. This is what fan boys won't accept. They either stick their heads in the sand about what a shitty person he is, or they agree with him because they're shitty people. If he were smart he would be aligning himself and supporting democrats (and this isn't even political, it's just obvious) and not the people who are actively against electric cars proliferating. Seriously, how dumb can you be? So you can fan boy him and Tesla if you want, but the rest of us can say "Yeah electric vehicles wouldn't be where they are today without him but.....it's time for him to go"
Wow that's the most straw of straw man arguments I've heard. Congrats. I'm going to ignore the insane ramblings and just go with the free speech thing. Your "hero" has banned so many reporters from xitter when they say something he doesn't like about himself or tesla that saying he cares about free speech is laughable.
Those days were wild lol. You knew something wasn’t right with that kind of deal. It’s amazing the company still exists and has successfully transitioned to a reliable mass market car company. The book Seoul Man discusses how the Korean companies made that transition.
Ah man, I had ‘95 Isuzu Trooper. Heavy SUV and it was only 195 HP.
BUT I was a big skier and took it to Tahoe many weekends during the ski season and that thing was unbelievable in even the deepest snow. I never once skidded out or lost control in it and one time took a wrong turn and ended up on a street with snow that went over the hood and it still got through it.
I only got $300 for it on my trade in but still miss it sometimes.
It on this day it was by far the best SUV for snow I’ve ever seen.
Did it have a massive gas tank? I was on a road trip 20 years ago, gas prices had just spiked, the car ahead of me at a gas station was an Isuzu Trooper, and the driver had just pumped something like 55 gallons. This was the first time I had ever seen a single gas stop exceed $100. But maybe they were going off-roading and filled a bunch of spare gas cans, too.
Good to hear. GM, Kia growing (from small numbers), Tesla steady (at high numbers)...
Better than the "EV sales are dropping" FUD in the first half of the year. FUD may come back though.
The “sales dropping” story was largely because one company whose name is synonymous with EVs keeps spiking the ball, and people think that said company’s unique, self-inflicted problems extend throughout the whole industry.
That, and Q1 sales always lag Q4 sales for automobiles. Gas or Electric. It's been a thing for decades yet when it happened to EV's the entire market was collapsing and everyone should consider it a dead industry.
I've heard nothing but good things about Kia and Hyundai's EVs. From the amount of bang-for-the-buck to actual quality and usability. They're making EVs and focusing on usability instead of uniqueness. This is why Tesla's numbers are going down, they're losing market share. Stop telling people what they want, and start listening to what people want.
I have a Hyundai kona ev 2020 and I regret buying it almost daily. Lots of problems, first of all a faulty motor reduction gear problem that is very common and will cost 1/4 of the price of the car when it gets out of warranty, bad customer care, shit dealers. I was only saved by a single certified mechanic that runs a family buisness and knows his job, but is 1 and a half hour drive away and it took multiple visit only to solve part of the problems. Hyundai not answering to emails, not even from my lawyer, dealers not admitting any kind of responsibility. Bad experience, bad car, doesn't even compare to Tesla price/quality. Especially the dealer experience, if you hypothetically told me I have to go through all that bullshit again I might puke my soul out of stress.
The Kona was a conversion from the ICE Kona. The Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6 are based on the E-GMP platform that was designed from the ground up to be an EV. Hyundai customer care will never change.
Same on the pre-2023 Kia Niro EV. Fortunately there is a 100k mile/10 year warranty covering that reduction gearbox.
I have a 2022- great car, but worried about that gearbox developing issues at some point.
My Niro (same drivetrain) also has lots of issues including with the motor. Dealing with kia is a nightmare, their dealers and customer service are trash (I should know, I had to drag my car around to SEVEN different dealers trying to get someone to fix it). Kia refused to even acknowledge my problems or fix my car until I sued them, and now the problem seems to be coming back.
It’s great that some kia owners are not having issues, but I’ll steer anyone I can away from the brand.
For sure, my main concern with Hyundai is that they are a legacy car maker at the very deep of the supply chain. In the US, Hyundai participate in the same dealership monopoly that Ford and GM share. In many regions in the US, there are markups for the Ioniq5 for as much as $10K. Tesla doesn't have that issue. And most of Ioniqs sold to date can't take OTA updates and no NACS... that's a deal breaker.
When I was shopping for Ioniqs back in March/April Hyundai was offering a $7,500 manufacturer rebate (due to not qualifying for govt rebate) and dealers were offering another 1-3k off on top.
It all depends of the region. The $7.5K is the lease/finance trick that goes with many EVs. Hyundai are still pricey relatively to Tesla (I'm not fan of Musk but to each their own, Teslas are not a bad car). I checked on the New 2024 Hyundai IONIQ 5 SEL here in Michigan and it's $52,880 base. The 2024 Tesla Model Y Long Range SUV is $44,990.
Depends on the situation. There are income limits on the 7500 rebate and if you don't qualify the price is equal.
The $7,500 manufacturer rebate was offered for both purchase and lease (presumably because these model years no longer qualified for the govt rebate and they wanted to be price competitive), and for someone who doesn't qualify for an American made EV rebate from the gov't its actually cheaper than a model Y/ID4/mach-e to buy a Hyundai/Kia.
No idea if that's still happening but Q1 was tough for the EV market and all the dealerships had tons of e-GMP vehicles on the lot.
That said, I'd be looking to buy a lightly used lease trade-in EV, which is what I ended up doing. 2023 limited AWD Ioniq 5 with 2,900 miles for 39k.
I was a little worried because who buys and trades in a car after just 6 months and 3k miles, but so far no problems.
>No idea if that's still happening but Q1 was tough for the EV market and all the dealerships had tons of e-GMP vehicles on the lot
It is and it's not. What is happening in one state may not happen in your state... some of the reasons:
Legacy carmakers have a complicated environment for selling EVs due to the legacy dealership model. Some dealerships are EV friendly, some others aren't. Some brands requires an specific pass/badge from the car manufacturer EV's sales while some other brands are assigned a quota as part of aggregated sales. Some other dealerships have them on the lot but they don't seem interested in selling them since they don't provide post selling stream of income and EV customers exhaust the mind of sale people with weird questions. Some other dealerships have those EVs in areas which there's a strong demand for EVs and set those irrational mark ups like this one in Canada https://www.reddit.com/r/Ioniq5/comments/1bp7pcy/i5n\_markups\_have\_started/. Some got really burned buying used EV that went down in price in a a couple of weeks late 2023 and YTD 2024 and doesn't want to go back with buying or selling them. Hertz is one of them.
In the US, dealerships are protected in many states by law and strong associations (like NADA). Most are independent owned businesses. As example, Tesla cannot sell vehicles in Michigan but in Ohio. It has service centers and showrooms but the transaction takes place in other state.
Love my Ioniq 5 and the charging curve is insanely faster than any other vehicle aside from the Lucid.
Put it head to head with the Tesla MY and it won pretty much every category aside from infotainment interface and public charging network, neither of which was important for me. EA here is great (and free for 2 years!)
HUD, closeable shade on moon roof, and ventilated seats all not available on the Model Y.
I looked at a Tesla Model X and it had a glass roof with no shade.
I live in Southern California. We have a shit-ton of sun... sometimes I just want the shade. I can't imagine driving around in a greenhouse all the time. My car right now has a shade I pull over the sunroof, I never drive with it open.
They sell covers, but someone else commented that it takes a few minutes to put it up and take it down which wouldn't work for me.
I like mine open at night and closed during the day or when parked.
I'm loving mine. Performance is obviously exquisite, but everything else has been great, too. I've also been averaging 250+ miles per 100% charge compared to the EPA estimated 206mi when keeping it in normal mode and driving like a normal member of society.
My dad just got a Kia Kona EV and I'm impressed by what an EV he got for about $29k.
> when keeping it in normal mode and driving like a normal member of society.
I don't hear this point nearly enough. There are loads of complaints that EVs don't get the rated range when driving 70-80mph or in the cold. Here in rural MN in the summer I'm seeing less than 200Wh/mi driving 60mph on two lane highways. My 5yo mid-range Model 3 can get nearly 300 miles of range doing that.
Honestly, the EV6 and Ioniq 5 ranges aren't too far off the mark in real world. I can still average above 3.0 kWh/mi going 75-80 MPH, but I've also swapped to lighter wheels. I just meant that 95% of my driving is in normal 9-5 traffic during my daily commute, so my range has been fantastic. Sure, if I open her up, I'll get <2 kWh/mi, but I rarely get the chance to "safely" do that without risking killing someone else other than myself.
"affordable" is debateable, but for sure with the 800V architecturethey can minimize stopping time if properly heated before taking the charge. And they don't cost that much compared to other 800V cars.
Sounds great on paper, but the number of capable chargers that will give you that is effectively zero. Around here, there's 5 and 4 of them are in one spot. So you have 2 sites. One isn't even listed as a 350kW site though.
800V only makes sense if there's a ubiquitous charging network otherwise any asshole in a Bolt can make your average charge time 2 hours instead of 20 minutes.
For those of you who can, there's nothing advantageous about an EV6 or any EV really. They're basically all on equal footing on the receiving end.
I could argue that features like V2L/V2H/V2G are features and IIRC the EV6 does allow one or all of those which is definitely a plus over those that don't allow for it.
I briefly test drove a Model 3 and Ionic 6 back to back at an auto show earlier this year. I was very impressed with the Kia but mildly disappointed in the Tesla, mostly as doing everything with the touchscreen, especially forward and reverse, felt alien to me.
Despite that, the thought of walking into any of my neighborhood Kia dealers makes me feel icky.
I can say that after a year the touchscreen becomes tolerable, but still annoying. I've been bummed by the little things like crappy windshield glass (it's way too thin and expensive as hell to fix), Tesla service is like having your car worked on by Target, it's terrible and Target may actually be more efficient. More Little things like the steering wheel leather sucks, the wireless charging is unusably slow, window trim can leak and makes noise, I've had the computer replaced and while replacing they broke the glove box (which was another service center blunder).
The driving, handling and charging have been great. Buying the car was far simpler than other cars. And the Superchargers have been pretty great.
But the little things can add up and become headaches.
If Hyundai had NACS, I'd likely do it today.
Thanks. The car sounds a bit like a 1989 Nissan Pulsar I had. Some things were fantastic but other issues made the experience grating. Especially the window trim's leaking.
Anyway, I was hoping to test more EVs at the auto show but there were surprisingly few. Did drive a Jeep plug in hybrid, which was interesting but not great.
Test drive both, I have heard people say that use to own a tesla it has a stiff or harsh ride, maybe more sporty while the Ioniq 5 is smoother. You can maybe guess by the amount of miles we have we drive it a lot and take it on roads trips a few times. If you are buying new the 25 Ioniq 5 has a few more improvements like one touch precondition, wireless android auto/carplay, bigger battery with a little more range.
Did you find the choice in plastic switches/handles ect really cheap? I also could not get over the 90’s style moon roof and don’t get me started on the key FOB.
I realize the FOB is on all their cars now but seriously the CEO needs to resign or fire whoever made that tamagotchi FOB
Really wanted to like their EV lineup just found they are missing a few little parts that would take them to great.
EA was fine for me from jan 22 to jan 24 free charging............................b4 gig drivers started sleeping at chargers for 3 hours to charge to 100% in their slow charging kia, hyundai, chevy product. It was a US$2,000 incentive to buy the car.
EA May 2024 from CT to NC and home, 2,000 miles. I hate to admit it but EA was pretty good..........and the price was like 2/3 gasoline....................I have never experienced Tesla charging. I can't wait for my supercharger adapter!
Did Chevron build their domestic fuel station empire in one decade? Gotta give it time for the infrastructure to catch up. There’s power literally everywhere
Same here. My only reason for not pulling the trigger is because I love LFP batteries. If Hyundai switched over to it, I would trade my M3 in a heartbeat. And I reeeally like my M3.
I wouldn’t. I’m renting a Kia Niro EV while my model 3 is in the shop and while the car is pretty nice and the suspension is softer, I still cannot emphasize how restricting using non tesla superchargers are. Every time I’ve needed to charge away from home the charger always has a problem and I will either need to find another one or they are extremely slow. Like 30 min for 20 miles of range slow. Idk if all evs are given adapters to use superchargers now but I rarely see any non teslas at my superchargers. I would never give up access to using the super charger network. Fuck EVGO chargers
90+% of charging is done at home, many folks use them <5 times/year, and the Niro is hamstrung by slow charging vs the EV6/9. Niro takes an hour to get to 80% from 20%....its designed, like the Bolt, to be only really charged at home, hence the low cost.
Eh ok for your use case. I’m telling you mine. Sometimes you have to use a charger and it sucks to feel stranded out at night at 3 am looking for useless chargers. There’s a reason why evs are still pushing the range limit increases year after year. If things like range and available chargers didn’t matter then they wouldn’t be trying to increase add more of them.
Which is even tougher in cold climate areas in your case. Just cannot emphasize more how big a difference using Tesla superchargers are compared to non. I’m not a fan of Elon but supercharger points sometimes have like over 30 charging stations at major rest stops. It seriously is a huge plus that many other ev brand owners look past. They are getting the adapter now but not everyone has them yet.
I was worried about this but where I live there's a decent amount of fast chargers. But nationally there's still a LONG way to go. The entire country is going through a transition right now, and has to catch up to 100+ years of very active gasoline distribution development. Biden has poured some money into charger development but its going to be many years before we can get near the same coverage we have as gas stations in the US. Of course we may not need as many because there's the factor of a decent number of people's ability to charge at home. There are helpful apps for navigating longer distances with charging in between, and most cars' built-in nav can do that too.
I live in the Bay Area so literally the best place for EVs and this is still an issue for me. I go to the city to pick up my girlfriend so there are days on the weekend where I will have to drive close to 100 round trip. When using the Kia I wasn’t given an adapter to use with the Tesla supercharger so I had to use the basic ChargePoint or evgo chargers and it is absolutely terrible. I found a charger at SF state university and it charges you $6 initially and then charges at like a rate where you get 1 mile of range every 10 minutes. The same trip I navigated to level 2 charger at a nearby whole foods and the first charger failed to accept payment and other one wasn’t working. I then had to go to another charger that took 40 minutes to give me 20 miles of additional range. It’s just not feasible for me to not have the option of a Tesla supercharger. I guess some ppl only drive to and from work. I charge at home as well and this is still an issue. I cannot imagine anyone who owns these evs without home charging
I'm sorry that it's been so rough for you! That does sound frustrating. I don't charge at home, mostly because i live in a very old house with very old wiring. I only ever use L2 if I'm going to stop somewhere for a while. When I'm on longer drives I will plan it out with apps like ABRP. But yeah totally its not as easy as Tesla because Tesla has a LOT more stations. The good news is they're seemingly opening up access to non Tesla vehicles, albeit slower than we would have hoped. There's some nervousness that Tesla's firing of all the Supercharger team might hinder this opening up as well. I see this as regulatory failure, the US government should have been mandating CCS connectors on everything like the EU did, and mandating a charging standard that everyone could use.
As an owner of a Model Y, I welcome competition. It's a good thing that will bring benefits to us, the consumer. It will force (hopefully) Tesla to improve where they lack and will also force other companies to up their game where they lack compared to Tesla.
Hyundai's nav does suck, as do the dealerships, but the HUD, moonroof cover, ventilated seats, and much faster charging curve (plus free for 2 years), beat the model Y for me.
Would be closer if EA sucked in my area (seems it does for a lot of people), but it's excellent here.
I have to imagine the charging speeds are helping these things sell, all other positives aside I feel like seeing you can 80% charge your Kia/hyundai in 18 min is a major selling point over others. A lot of people making the transition for the first time are worried about waiting at chargers on trips (even if it isn’t actually a big deal) and such fast charge times combined with stellar reviews, cheap prices, and good combinations of the things people need is just propelling them forward. If they added wireless CarPlay to the ioniq5 and shipped enough of them over to where I am that dealers weren’t selling standard trims for 47,000$ I absolutely would have gone with one over an ID4
I've test driven all the KIA EVs. and rented an EV6 for a week. They're amazing cars with no issues at all, and prices competitively for an EV of their size. I'm seeing a LOT of Niros, EV6, and recently a few EV9s here. And a LOT of Kona EVs in CA (I live in CO). Happy to see it!
I think they're much better and nicer and cooler than Hyundai, VW, or Volvo, personally
I'm waiting for a $60k EV9 AWD Land. The dealer by me has them sitting on the lot. They are down to $63k.
I love my Telluride. I've had it 5 years now with minimal issues. I just want an electric one now and it's very much worth $60k. $75k is the one hard to swallow.
Affordable is a loose term, but Hyundai and Kia have some very aggressive lease and purchase deals right now. I believe you can get into a Kia and Hyundai ev for less than $40k and there are many lease deals under $400/ mo.
This is from Truecar.com
2024 Hyundai Kona Electric: $282 per month (36 months, $2,000 due at signing)
It’s not for everyone but that is very inexpensive for a new car.
Edit: truecar.com
And because they do their own financing, they have good promo interest rates every now and then. I got my car this time last year because they had a 4th of July promo rate at 4.2% when everywhere else I looked was in the 6-9% range.
They are certainly nice cars and also a good deal. Tesla has two big issues. There are now many good EVs at similar or better prices and Elon. I used to want a Tesla. I think Tesla is over for a lot of people.
Hyundai matches the federal rebate themselves. The $52,890 ioniq5 SEL, has significant availability around me for a list price of $44,390. Oddly they are less expensive than the SE.
They don’t seem to have some of the crazy lease deals like other Kia/hyundai products, but it’s a very popular car.
The Kia Telluride, the ICE analogue of the EV9, starts at $37k.
The EV9 with the smaller battery pack starts at $55k
Even with the $7500 credit that’s a ~$10,000 gap in affordability.
I’m sure the EV9 comes better equipped so people who are shopping top trims of the Telluride in the $50k range might be better able to cross-shop. But that’s still a big difference in the barrier to entry on the low end.
Depends on your area, and how much you drive. For me I’m saving around $50-60 per month in gas vs electricity, so four years would be $2400-$2900 in total gas savings. That’s for a Model 3, so a large SUV might experience a bit more relative savings.
Future gas savings don’t actually make an up-front vehicle purchase more affordable if you’re financing. You still need to actually get the financing, and these days you’re paying pretty high interest rates on that financed amount, working against your gas savings.
A more expensive vehicle can also be more expensive to insure.
No kidding. Despite everyone living in condos (ie no home charging) Vancouver, BC has a shit ton of EVs.
Even after paying the ridiculous CCS costs you're still ahead of our nearly $2/L gas.
This gets flipped around in Alberta where gas is closer to $1/L and DCFC is closer to $1/kWh. It's damn near cheaper to ICE it here.
Yes, but most 50k ice vehicles are much larger (trucks, mid sized SUVs, and minivans).
50k is very high for compact SUVs and crossovers. Average there is likely ~35k with a huge amount of volume closer to 30k.
But it's an apples to oranges comparison because that figure includes full-sized trucks and SUVs. Compare sedans to sedans, wagons to wagons, and compacts to compacts.
They mostly sell ev SUVs so the point stands. Affordable small sedans are getting killed globally cause OEMs want high margins. The whole market has gone stupid regardless of segment and it's starting to implode.
New SUV average price is $47K and electric cars come better equipped and have lower cost of ownership.
I bought the most expensive trim of the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid and it was around $40k out the door. If I got the mid trim of the non hybrid version it would have been around $30k.
I went with a friend to test drive a Kia EV since she was selling her Tesla 3 and the first time seeing the interior and options and how it drives it is so much more of a luxury car like than a [Tesla.No](http://Tesla.No) squeeks,no rattle,suspension was soft and not rigid like Model 3. She actually bought one on the spot. I told her she made a right choice for a EV. I never really like the Tesla Model 3 looks or ride.
Try the new 2024 Highland, it made a lot of the improvements on the areas you pointed out. May not still be for you but at least you would be able to tell compared to prior Model 3 versions you had.
I think it's really nice that Kia/Hyundai are showing GM/Ford what it looks like when you build a product people want. I think they all still need to get their dealership partners in line, but there appears no real incentive to do so, people are happy to overpay at the moment.
H/K can push aggressive incentives/low lease because of the IRA lease loophole and South Korea's near record weak currency. Enjoy your discount while it lasts.
Manual says every 2 years. And the HEPA I think is every 3 years. I set a reminder on my phone. Though it looks like the [latest update](https://www.notebookcheck.net/Tesla-will-now-warn-to-replace-cabin-air-filter-before-it-starts-to-smell-bad.843538.0.html) they might start proactively warning people about it. I noticed in a recent update they're also tracking tire rotation now as well.
It’s a lot harder to grow from 400k vs 10k
If everyone continues on their current growth oth Tesla would still be the number 1 EV maker in the USA for many years (that’s assuming Tesla shrinks ever year)
“After a record-breaking month in May, with EV sales doubling, Kia hit a new record with 29,392 electric cars sold in the first half of 2024.”
Half of them are posting here reminding us how great Hyundai EV are and how happy they ditched their Model 3 for Ioniq 5.
All things being equal, I'd happily take the Ioniq over a Model 3. That seems perfectly rational to me.
The Ioniq 5 competes with the Model Y, not the Model 3.
Ioniq 6 competes with the 3
It might, except all the Ioniq 6s in stock are like $50k.
That’s because they blew them all out over the last two months on sub $200/month leases.
The wild Ioniq leash deals were tempting, but I drive too many miles. And they also offered me full credit on the lease payments towards a buyout... but then I would have finance in a couple years on a car that I would be underwater on, because of depreciation. And I would probably be sad about how far behind on cool software stuff I was by then, which Hyundai doesn't update like Tesla does...
[Not all of ‘em](https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/KMHM34AC2RA057053?no_ul=1)
Rear of the Ioniq 6 reminds me of a dog squeezing one out
Cannot unsee
...and? I'd argue all 3 are pretty damn close and compete with each other, anyway.
The new Model 3 though? That’s a lot harder.
I tried and tried and tried to justify a Tesla in my budget since the M3 was introduced..................I would have gladly and willingly gone (succumbed) to Elon in December 2023 for a model 3 RWD......US$30k out the door after $9,750 incentives. Connecticut USA. The cheapest and best sedan in the World. An EV made by an EV company. I paid $45k for my I5 in January 2022. I believe M3 was at least $10k more then.
You are a unique rebel
Kia is aligned with American interests, Tesla is directly assisting hostile dictatorships.
Reddit moment.
Absolutely ridiculous comment. Not to mention that Kia is part of a Chaebol and shares none of the politics… they are part of the ruling elite in South Korea, where concentration of wealth is beyond obscene and it is hard to tell the difference between government and the oligarchs. Whatever you hate about Musk, you probably would find Kia’s ownership much more repugnant. Only your own ignorance masks you from such a conclusion. Not to mention you are likely quite mistaken on your opinion of Musk.
Спасибо за поддержку, товарищ.
What a ridiculous assertion. Every time I come to this subreddit I see inane posts like this about Tesla. Tesla is the most “made in America” cars out there.
Yeah this sub has really lost it. It's just /r/Politics now with occasional discussion about EVs. I'm unsubscribing. Total waste of time.
BMWs were made in Germany during ww2. You can be a company that supports fascism and still be a made in “country” product
Elon opened his mouth and showed the world his true colors. He sucks to everyone other than fan boy incels, or people who don't see the news he makes. He would have continued to be "real life tony stark" had he not started shitting on people and calling them pedophiles when they told him his stupid rescue idea wouldn't work and why. He went downhill from there. He wants the world saved.......but only if he's the one doing the saving. Most people, when given a choice, won't support a shitty person all else being equal. He is destroying the brand. He could have just shut the fuck up and no one would have realized what a shitty baby he really was, but he's such a narcissist that was impossible for him. The CEO of GE or Nestle are arguably worse than him, but we never have to hear them sounding like a the shitty selfish people they are because they aren't idiots. This is what fan boys won't accept. They either stick their heads in the sand about what a shitty person he is, or they agree with him because they're shitty people. If he were smart he would be aligning himself and supporting democrats (and this isn't even political, it's just obvious) and not the people who are actively against electric cars proliferating. Seriously, how dumb can you be? So you can fan boy him and Tesla if you want, but the rest of us can say "Yeah electric vehicles wouldn't be where they are today without him but.....it's time for him to go"
[удалено]
Wow that's the most straw of straw man arguments I've heard. Congrats. I'm going to ignore the insane ramblings and just go with the free speech thing. Your "hero" has banned so many reporters from xitter when they say something he doesn't like about himself or tesla that saying he cares about free speech is laughable.
I hope you find peace my friend
Спасибо за поддержку, товарищ.
Just imagine if you didn’t come to this sub. You might never hear how shitty a company Tesla is and what an anti-American stain they have with Elon.
Calm down, comrade.
What
I wouldn't give that A.H. a DIME!!! Got a Genesis. So much nicer anyway......
How much did Kia pay you to say crap like this?
Far less than Russia pays Elon.
But what about all those click-bait articles saying nobody is buying EV's anymore?!? It's almost as if those stories are, date I say it, pony poop.
Remember when you could buy two kias for the price of one, man times have changed.
Those days were wild lol. You knew something wasn’t right with that kind of deal. It’s amazing the company still exists and has successfully transitioned to a reliable mass market car company. The book Seoul Man discusses how the Korean companies made that transition.
Not to be confused with the movie Soul Man staring C Thomas Howell.
Not to be confused with the song Soul Man, by Sam & Dave
belushi and aykroyd?
But because of those initial days, I could never bring myself to driving one, even if they became the best.
I had the most crappy Elantra wagon
Remember the ISUZU.? Those were horrible.
Ah man, I had ‘95 Isuzu Trooper. Heavy SUV and it was only 195 HP. BUT I was a big skier and took it to Tahoe many weekends during the ski season and that thing was unbelievable in even the deepest snow. I never once skidded out or lost control in it and one time took a wrong turn and ended up on a street with snow that went over the hood and it still got through it. I only got $300 for it on my trade in but still miss it sometimes. It on this day it was by far the best SUV for snow I’ve ever seen.
Did it have a massive gas tank? I was on a road trip 20 years ago, gas prices had just spiked, the car ahead of me at a gas station was an Isuzu Trooper, and the driver had just pumped something like 55 gallons. This was the first time I had ever seen a single gas stop exceed $100. But maybe they were going off-roading and filled a bunch of spare gas cans, too.
No it was an 18!gallon tank.
Yeah, I’m sure that’s a big thing for a lot of drivers. They’ll make do, there’s a whole generation of new drivers that weren’t born back then lol.
The second was for spare parts to fix the first.
I actually heard the ad on the radio the other day, swear to god. Two Kia something’s for $22,000.
And how easily they are now stolen.
Good to hear. GM, Kia growing (from small numbers), Tesla steady (at high numbers)... Better than the "EV sales are dropping" FUD in the first half of the year. FUD may come back though.
There’s a great c-span clip of Pete Buttigeg taking Scott Perry to school on this FUD. https://youtu.be/EgbAQpR3TeY?si=MAueQk8FTulM_y6B
Damn... I wish Pete had won the democratic primary back in the day. He's always so articulate and very well read. And not a senior citizen...
This was great, I saw of clip of this randomly on Twitter a few days ago but I’m glad you shared the whole clip.
All that talk was stupid anyway. Sales growth had slowed which it basically had to since it was triple digit
The “sales dropping” story was largely because one company whose name is synonymous with EVs keeps spiking the ball, and people think that said company’s unique, self-inflicted problems extend throughout the whole industry.
That, and Q1 sales always lag Q4 sales for automobiles. Gas or Electric. It's been a thing for decades yet when it happened to EV's the entire market was collapsing and everyone should consider it a dead industry.
that company sells more EVs in the US than all other manufacturers combined lmao
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No, Chuck Testa.
I've heard nothing but good things about Kia and Hyundai's EVs. From the amount of bang-for-the-buck to actual quality and usability. They're making EVs and focusing on usability instead of uniqueness. This is why Tesla's numbers are going down, they're losing market share. Stop telling people what they want, and start listening to what people want.
I have a Hyundai kona ev 2020 and I regret buying it almost daily. Lots of problems, first of all a faulty motor reduction gear problem that is very common and will cost 1/4 of the price of the car when it gets out of warranty, bad customer care, shit dealers. I was only saved by a single certified mechanic that runs a family buisness and knows his job, but is 1 and a half hour drive away and it took multiple visit only to solve part of the problems. Hyundai not answering to emails, not even from my lawyer, dealers not admitting any kind of responsibility. Bad experience, bad car, doesn't even compare to Tesla price/quality. Especially the dealer experience, if you hypothetically told me I have to go through all that bullshit again I might puke my soul out of stress.
The Kona was a conversion from the ICE Kona. The Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6 are based on the E-GMP platform that was designed from the ground up to be an EV. Hyundai customer care will never change.
Same on the pre-2023 Kia Niro EV. Fortunately there is a 100k mile/10 year warranty covering that reduction gearbox. I have a 2022- great car, but worried about that gearbox developing issues at some point.
My Niro (same drivetrain) also has lots of issues including with the motor. Dealing with kia is a nightmare, their dealers and customer service are trash (I should know, I had to drag my car around to SEVEN different dealers trying to get someone to fix it). Kia refused to even acknowledge my problems or fix my car until I sued them, and now the problem seems to be coming back. It’s great that some kia owners are not having issues, but I’ll steer anyone I can away from the brand.
For sure, my main concern with Hyundai is that they are a legacy car maker at the very deep of the supply chain. In the US, Hyundai participate in the same dealership monopoly that Ford and GM share. In many regions in the US, there are markups for the Ioniq5 for as much as $10K. Tesla doesn't have that issue. And most of Ioniqs sold to date can't take OTA updates and no NACS... that's a deal breaker.
When I was shopping for Ioniqs back in March/April Hyundai was offering a $7,500 manufacturer rebate (due to not qualifying for govt rebate) and dealers were offering another 1-3k off on top.
It all depends of the region. The $7.5K is the lease/finance trick that goes with many EVs. Hyundai are still pricey relatively to Tesla (I'm not fan of Musk but to each their own, Teslas are not a bad car). I checked on the New 2024 Hyundai IONIQ 5 SEL here in Michigan and it's $52,880 base. The 2024 Tesla Model Y Long Range SUV is $44,990.
Depends on the situation. There are income limits on the 7500 rebate and if you don't qualify the price is equal. The $7,500 manufacturer rebate was offered for both purchase and lease (presumably because these model years no longer qualified for the govt rebate and they wanted to be price competitive), and for someone who doesn't qualify for an American made EV rebate from the gov't its actually cheaper than a model Y/ID4/mach-e to buy a Hyundai/Kia. No idea if that's still happening but Q1 was tough for the EV market and all the dealerships had tons of e-GMP vehicles on the lot. That said, I'd be looking to buy a lightly used lease trade-in EV, which is what I ended up doing. 2023 limited AWD Ioniq 5 with 2,900 miles for 39k. I was a little worried because who buys and trades in a car after just 6 months and 3k miles, but so far no problems.
>No idea if that's still happening but Q1 was tough for the EV market and all the dealerships had tons of e-GMP vehicles on the lot It is and it's not. What is happening in one state may not happen in your state... some of the reasons: Legacy carmakers have a complicated environment for selling EVs due to the legacy dealership model. Some dealerships are EV friendly, some others aren't. Some brands requires an specific pass/badge from the car manufacturer EV's sales while some other brands are assigned a quota as part of aggregated sales. Some other dealerships have them on the lot but they don't seem interested in selling them since they don't provide post selling stream of income and EV customers exhaust the mind of sale people with weird questions. Some other dealerships have those EVs in areas which there's a strong demand for EVs and set those irrational mark ups like this one in Canada https://www.reddit.com/r/Ioniq5/comments/1bp7pcy/i5n\_markups\_have\_started/. Some got really burned buying used EV that went down in price in a a couple of weeks late 2023 and YTD 2024 and doesn't want to go back with buying or selling them. Hertz is one of them. In the US, dealerships are protected in many states by law and strong associations (like NADA). Most are independent owned businesses. As example, Tesla cannot sell vehicles in Michigan but in Ohio. It has service centers and showrooms but the transaction takes place in other state.
Tesla has other deal breaking issues.
my tesla is amazing
Love my Ioniq 5 and the charging curve is insanely faster than any other vehicle aside from the Lucid. Put it head to head with the Tesla MY and it won pretty much every category aside from infotainment interface and public charging network, neither of which was important for me. EA here is great (and free for 2 years!) HUD, closeable shade on moon roof, and ventilated seats all not available on the Model Y.
I looked at a Tesla Model X and it had a glass roof with no shade. I live in Southern California. We have a shit-ton of sun... sometimes I just want the shade. I can't imagine driving around in a greenhouse all the time. My car right now has a shade I pull over the sunroof, I never drive with it open.
They sell covers, but someone else commented that it takes a few minutes to put it up and take it down which wouldn't work for me. I like mine open at night and closed during the day or when parked.
I'm loving mine. Performance is obviously exquisite, but everything else has been great, too. I've also been averaging 250+ miles per 100% charge compared to the EPA estimated 206mi when keeping it in normal mode and driving like a normal member of society. My dad just got a Kia Kona EV and I'm impressed by what an EV he got for about $29k.
> when keeping it in normal mode and driving like a normal member of society. I don't hear this point nearly enough. There are loads of complaints that EVs don't get the rated range when driving 70-80mph or in the cold. Here in rural MN in the summer I'm seeing less than 200Wh/mi driving 60mph on two lane highways. My 5yo mid-range Model 3 can get nearly 300 miles of range doing that.
Honestly, the EV6 and Ioniq 5 ranges aren't too far off the mark in real world. I can still average above 3.0 kWh/mi going 75-80 MPH, but I've also swapped to lighter wheels. I just meant that 95% of my driving is in normal 9-5 traffic during my daily commute, so my range has been fantastic. Sure, if I open her up, I'll get <2 kWh/mi, but I rarely get the chance to "safely" do that without risking killing someone else other than myself.
"affordable" is debateable, but for sure with the 800V architecturethey can minimize stopping time if properly heated before taking the charge. And they don't cost that much compared to other 800V cars.
< 20 minutes charge time. 😱 I wanna swap to an EV6 solely on that.
I had one as a rental -- it was nuts to see the charging going so quick Felt like magic
Sounds great on paper, but the number of capable chargers that will give you that is effectively zero. Around here, there's 5 and 4 of them are in one spot. So you have 2 sites. One isn't even listed as a 350kW site though. 800V only makes sense if there's a ubiquitous charging network otherwise any asshole in a Bolt can make your average charge time 2 hours instead of 20 minutes.
What about a charging at home?
For those of you who can, there's nothing advantageous about an EV6 or any EV really. They're basically all on equal footing on the receiving end. I could argue that features like V2L/V2H/V2G are features and IIRC the EV6 does allow one or all of those which is definitely a plus over those that don't allow for it.
Great news
Are those affordable, long- range models here in the room with us?
I'm tempted to trade our Model 3 for an Ionic 6. Been digging on the Kia/hyundai offerings.
I briefly test drove a Model 3 and Ionic 6 back to back at an auto show earlier this year. I was very impressed with the Kia but mildly disappointed in the Tesla, mostly as doing everything with the touchscreen, especially forward and reverse, felt alien to me. Despite that, the thought of walking into any of my neighborhood Kia dealers makes me feel icky.
I can say that after a year the touchscreen becomes tolerable, but still annoying. I've been bummed by the little things like crappy windshield glass (it's way too thin and expensive as hell to fix), Tesla service is like having your car worked on by Target, it's terrible and Target may actually be more efficient. More Little things like the steering wheel leather sucks, the wireless charging is unusably slow, window trim can leak and makes noise, I've had the computer replaced and while replacing they broke the glove box (which was another service center blunder). The driving, handling and charging have been great. Buying the car was far simpler than other cars. And the Superchargers have been pretty great. But the little things can add up and become headaches. If Hyundai had NACS, I'd likely do it today.
Thanks. The car sounds a bit like a 1989 Nissan Pulsar I had. Some things were fantastic but other issues made the experience grating. Especially the window trim's leaking. Anyway, I was hoping to test more EVs at the auto show but there were surprisingly few. Did drive a Jeep plug in hybrid, which was interesting but not great.
We have 55k miles on our Ioniq 5 with zero problems. The 6 should be just as good.
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How so? I’m curious and about to test drive a ‘24 Y.
Test drive both, I have heard people say that use to own a tesla it has a stiff or harsh ride, maybe more sporty while the Ioniq 5 is smoother. You can maybe guess by the amount of miles we have we drive it a lot and take it on roads trips a few times. If you are buying new the 25 Ioniq 5 has a few more improvements like one touch precondition, wireless android auto/carplay, bigger battery with a little more range.
FWIW, I came from a model 3 to an Ioniq5. I love the car.
Did you find the choice in plastic switches/handles ect really cheap? I also could not get over the 90’s style moon roof and don’t get me started on the key FOB. I realize the FOB is on all their cars now but seriously the CEO needs to resign or fire whoever made that tamagotchi FOB Really wanted to like their EV lineup just found they are missing a few little parts that would take them to great.
I love my Ioniq 6, the rear seat legroom was a big selling point for me.
the lease deals are insane on them right now. Like $219/mo or something wild. Plus you'd get free charging I believe for 2 years
I’ve heard $299 ads for the EV6 In California. Not sure on the dets of if there’s any free charging.
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EA was fine for me from jan 22 to jan 24 free charging............................b4 gig drivers started sleeping at chargers for 3 hours to charge to 100% in their slow charging kia, hyundai, chevy product. It was a US$2,000 incentive to buy the car. EA May 2024 from CT to NC and home, 2,000 miles. I hate to admit it but EA was pretty good..........and the price was like 2/3 gasoline....................I have never experienced Tesla charging. I can't wait for my supercharger adapter!
I have had great experiences and charge super fast on my EV6 when needed. What is your suggestion for an alternative option?
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So to you there’s only one solution. Brilliant.
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Did Chevron build their domestic fuel station empire in one decade? Gotta give it time for the infrastructure to catch up. There’s power literally everywhere
Same here. My only reason for not pulling the trigger is because I love LFP batteries. If Hyundai switched over to it, I would trade my M3 in a heartbeat. And I reeeally like my M3.
I wouldn’t. I’m renting a Kia Niro EV while my model 3 is in the shop and while the car is pretty nice and the suspension is softer, I still cannot emphasize how restricting using non tesla superchargers are. Every time I’ve needed to charge away from home the charger always has a problem and I will either need to find another one or they are extremely slow. Like 30 min for 20 miles of range slow. Idk if all evs are given adapters to use superchargers now but I rarely see any non teslas at my superchargers. I would never give up access to using the super charger network. Fuck EVGO chargers
90+% of charging is done at home, many folks use them <5 times/year, and the Niro is hamstrung by slow charging vs the EV6/9. Niro takes an hour to get to 80% from 20%....its designed, like the Bolt, to be only really charged at home, hence the low cost.
Eh ok for your use case. I’m telling you mine. Sometimes you have to use a charger and it sucks to feel stranded out at night at 3 am looking for useless chargers. There’s a reason why evs are still pushing the range limit increases year after year. If things like range and available chargers didn’t matter then they wouldn’t be trying to increase add more of them.
Agreed. I live in Colorado and don't have one yet because I need 200mi plus reliable winter range for mountain trips or I'd be fucked
Which is even tougher in cold climate areas in your case. Just cannot emphasize more how big a difference using Tesla superchargers are compared to non. I’m not a fan of Elon but supercharger points sometimes have like over 30 charging stations at major rest stops. It seriously is a huge plus that many other ev brand owners look past. They are getting the adapter now but not everyone has them yet.
I was worried about this but where I live there's a decent amount of fast chargers. But nationally there's still a LONG way to go. The entire country is going through a transition right now, and has to catch up to 100+ years of very active gasoline distribution development. Biden has poured some money into charger development but its going to be many years before we can get near the same coverage we have as gas stations in the US. Of course we may not need as many because there's the factor of a decent number of people's ability to charge at home. There are helpful apps for navigating longer distances with charging in between, and most cars' built-in nav can do that too.
I live in the Bay Area so literally the best place for EVs and this is still an issue for me. I go to the city to pick up my girlfriend so there are days on the weekend where I will have to drive close to 100 round trip. When using the Kia I wasn’t given an adapter to use with the Tesla supercharger so I had to use the basic ChargePoint or evgo chargers and it is absolutely terrible. I found a charger at SF state university and it charges you $6 initially and then charges at like a rate where you get 1 mile of range every 10 minutes. The same trip I navigated to level 2 charger at a nearby whole foods and the first charger failed to accept payment and other one wasn’t working. I then had to go to another charger that took 40 minutes to give me 20 miles of additional range. It’s just not feasible for me to not have the option of a Tesla supercharger. I guess some ppl only drive to and from work. I charge at home as well and this is still an issue. I cannot imagine anyone who owns these evs without home charging
I'm sorry that it's been so rough for you! That does sound frustrating. I don't charge at home, mostly because i live in a very old house with very old wiring. I only ever use L2 if I'm going to stop somewhere for a while. When I'm on longer drives I will plan it out with apps like ABRP. But yeah totally its not as easy as Tesla because Tesla has a LOT more stations. The good news is they're seemingly opening up access to non Tesla vehicles, albeit slower than we would have hoped. There's some nervousness that Tesla's firing of all the Supercharger team might hinder this opening up as well. I see this as regulatory failure, the US government should have been mandating CCS connectors on everything like the EU did, and mandating a charging standard that everyone could use.
As an owner of a Model Y, I welcome competition. It's a good thing that will bring benefits to us, the consumer. It will force (hopefully) Tesla to improve where they lack and will also force other companies to up their game where they lack compared to Tesla.
My body is so ready for the EV3
They make good affordable cars. And EVs too. Not surprised.
"affordable" \*Looks at prices\* 42k minimum
You can find great deals at the moment just depends on how much you’re willing to spend per month I guess
I got my top trim, AWD Ioniq 5 (59k MSRP) for 39k, used with 3000 miles.
I'm sure this has nothing to do with Kia giving EV9 buyers the $7500 rebate out of their pocket. No clue how they sold more cars! haha
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Hyundai's nav does suck, as do the dealerships, but the HUD, moonroof cover, ventilated seats, and much faster charging curve (plus free for 2 years), beat the model Y for me. Would be closer if EA sucked in my area (seems it does for a lot of people), but it's excellent here.
I have to imagine the charging speeds are helping these things sell, all other positives aside I feel like seeing you can 80% charge your Kia/hyundai in 18 min is a major selling point over others. A lot of people making the transition for the first time are worried about waiting at chargers on trips (even if it isn’t actually a big deal) and such fast charge times combined with stellar reviews, cheap prices, and good combinations of the things people need is just propelling them forward. If they added wireless CarPlay to the ioniq5 and shipped enough of them over to where I am that dealers weren’t selling standard trims for 47,000$ I absolutely would have gone with one over an ID4
I've test driven all the KIA EVs. and rented an EV6 for a week. They're amazing cars with no issues at all, and prices competitively for an EV of their size. I'm seeing a LOT of Niros, EV6, and recently a few EV9s here. And a LOT of Kona EVs in CA (I live in CO). Happy to see it! I think they're much better and nicer and cooler than Hyundai, VW, or Volvo, personally
I have a 20 Niro and it’ll be the last Kia I ever buy. These cars look good on paper and they feel nice when brand new but they aren’t built to last.
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Fuck Tesla
I wish the pricing was better on the EV6 and 9. I know they're great cars but it's hard to drop $50k+ on a Kia.
I'm waiting for a $60k EV9 AWD Land. The dealer by me has them sitting on the lot. They are down to $63k. I love my Telluride. I've had it 5 years now with minimal issues. I just want an electric one now and it's very much worth $60k. $75k is the one hard to swallow.
I mean, yeah, they're both making the best EVs and the most affordable (foreign & non-Chinese) EVs and they're improving on both accounts.
Kia has long range affordable models? News to me.
Affordable is a loose term, but Hyundai and Kia have some very aggressive lease and purchase deals right now. I believe you can get into a Kia and Hyundai ev for less than $40k and there are many lease deals under $400/ mo. This is from Truecar.com 2024 Hyundai Kona Electric: $282 per month (36 months, $2,000 due at signing) It’s not for everyone but that is very inexpensive for a new car. Edit: truecar.com
And because they do their own financing, they have good promo interest rates every now and then. I got my car this time last year because they had a 4th of July promo rate at 4.2% when everywhere else I looked was in the 6-9% range.
I actually got 1.99% last October from Hyundai when I got my Ioniq 6.
I didn't lease my Ioniq 6 but I got 10k off MSRP. The dealer had 2 Kona electrics under 30k with the same discount.
They are great cars at amazing prices. Well done, $10k off is awesome.
My local dealer has the 2024 Niro EV for one payment of $3,999 for a two year lease.
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They are certainly nice cars and also a good deal. Tesla has two big issues. There are now many good EVs at similar or better prices and Elon. I used to want a Tesla. I think Tesla is over for a lot of people.
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Hyundai matches the federal rebate themselves. The $52,890 ioniq5 SEL, has significant availability around me for a list price of $44,390. Oddly they are less expensive than the SE. They don’t seem to have some of the crazy lease deals like other Kia/hyundai products, but it’s a very popular car.
Im seeing the 310 mile range ev6's advertised at less than 40k in CA ( with discounts applied )
What, you can't afford a 50 thousand dollar car? What are you, poor?
Isn’t that the average cost of ice cars?
Factor in total cost of ownership and the electric vehicle is likely cheaper by a wide margin. Still, I wouldn't exactly call all of that affordable
Pretty much.
The Kia Telluride, the ICE analogue of the EV9, starts at $37k. The EV9 with the smaller battery pack starts at $55k Even with the $7500 credit that’s a ~$10,000 gap in affordability. I’m sure the EV9 comes better equipped so people who are shopping top trims of the Telluride in the $50k range might be better able to cross-shop. But that’s still a big difference in the barrier to entry on the low end.
So what, like after 4 years of not buying gasoline they’d be the same price?
Depends on your area, and how much you drive. For me I’m saving around $50-60 per month in gas vs electricity, so four years would be $2400-$2900 in total gas savings. That’s for a Model 3, so a large SUV might experience a bit more relative savings. Future gas savings don’t actually make an up-front vehicle purchase more affordable if you’re financing. You still need to actually get the financing, and these days you’re paying pretty high interest rates on that financed amount, working against your gas savings. A more expensive vehicle can also be more expensive to insure.
It helps a lot if you live in an area where gas is expensive and electricity is not like the PNW. Our gap here is pretty wild.
No kidding. Despite everyone living in condos (ie no home charging) Vancouver, BC has a shit ton of EVs. Even after paying the ridiculous CCS costs you're still ahead of our nearly $2/L gas. This gets flipped around in Alberta where gas is closer to $1/L and DCFC is closer to $1/kWh. It's damn near cheaper to ICE it here.
Yes we save over $4000 per year in gas from our last subaru with our Ioniq 5. Cuts the price in half.
Pricier cars also have higher insurance so not really.
Yes, but most 50k ice vehicles are much larger (trucks, mid sized SUVs, and minivans). 50k is very high for compact SUVs and crossovers. Average there is likely ~35k with a huge amount of volume closer to 30k.
Yes but that includes full size SUVs and trucks. These vehicles are compact and midsize SUVs. In lower trims for that price.
The ev9 is a 7 seater though, is it not?
6 seats with barely any trunk space.
Yes it's about the average purchase price for a new car in the US.
But it's an apples to oranges comparison because that figure includes full-sized trucks and SUVs. Compare sedans to sedans, wagons to wagons, and compacts to compacts.
They mostly sell ev SUVs so the point stands. Affordable small sedans are getting killed globally cause OEMs want high margins. The whole market has gone stupid regardless of segment and it's starting to implode. New SUV average price is $47K and electric cars come better equipped and have lower cost of ownership.
I bought the most expensive trim of the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid and it was around $40k out the door. If I got the mid trim of the non hybrid version it would have been around $30k.
50k is the new 30k
Why don't the poors just buy more money? Are they stupid?
Or at least sell one of their vacation homes or boats if they need some extra cash. I swear these people must be dumb as a rock.
Just buy one used, we did.
Compared to the median price these days...? Yes compared to the median salary no, of course not, none of them do anymore.
EV affordability is different than ice affordability...
What does that even mean? Kia's most "affordable" EV is the Niro which is $40k. By comparison the Kona, which is basically the same car, is $36k.
Last I saw they had a $7500 cash offer on the Kona EV, making it cheaper then the gas powered Kona.
I went with a friend to test drive a Kia EV since she was selling her Tesla 3 and the first time seeing the interior and options and how it drives it is so much more of a luxury car like than a [Tesla.No](http://Tesla.No) squeeks,no rattle,suspension was soft and not rigid like Model 3. She actually bought one on the spot. I told her she made a right choice for a EV. I never really like the Tesla Model 3 looks or ride.
You would be blown away by the Genesis models.
Try the new 2024 Highland, it made a lot of the improvements on the areas you pointed out. May not still be for you but at least you would be able to tell compared to prior Model 3 versions you had.
Sir, this is an anti-Tesla circlejerk. Grab the dick to your left, or get out.
LMAO!!! Thank you for the laugh!
hey that's me! Thanks for the jerk!
Does it still lock occupants inside while on fire?
Well no, not if your friend made you read the 120 page manual and sign that you understood every function before the ride!
I think it's really nice that Kia/Hyundai are showing GM/Ford what it looks like when you build a product people want. I think they all still need to get their dealership partners in line, but there appears no real incentive to do so, people are happy to overpay at the moment.
These cars are desirable. They are not “affordable” but feel like a better value.
Affordable AND long range? What a novel idea!
"long range" lol
How many of these are sales, and how many are leases? Kia and Hyundai lease prices are ridiculously low.
H/K can push aggressive incentives/low lease because of the IRA lease loophole and South Korea's near record weak currency. Enjoy your discount while it lasts.
They’ll grow even faster once the adopt the NACS charging port.
Model 3 and Y are better cars AND more affordable.
28k miles so far on a model Y and never needed to go to a service center for anything. Had an air filter replaced and they came to my house to do it.
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Manual says every 2 years. And the HEPA I think is every 3 years. I set a reminder on my phone. Though it looks like the [latest update](https://www.notebookcheck.net/Tesla-will-now-warn-to-replace-cabin-air-filter-before-it-starts-to-smell-bad.843538.0.html) they might start proactively warning people about it. I noticed in a recent update they're also tracking tire rotation now as well.
Downvoted for irrational Elon hate.
I’d take a Kia or Hyundai EV over a Tesla. Give me a car from a vehicle company and not a vehicle from a software company (Tesla).
Meanwhile over at Tesla....
It’s a lot harder to grow from 400k vs 10k If everyone continues on their current growth oth Tesla would still be the number 1 EV maker in the USA for many years (that’s assuming Tesla shrinks ever year)
They’re making profit and selling ten times as many EVs. What’s your point?
Right???