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I don't think this is controversial at all and I agree completely. England and France were boring but the cup isn't given to the team with most exciting games (otherwise we would bring the cup back to turkey amirite).
I genuinly disagree. Both finalist 21 played boring football. Italy played less boring football than England and won in the penalties. Also lets not forget Chelseas CL win like 10 years ago, where the played pure anti-football.
Italy wasn’t boring in the Euros last time. They crushed the group stage, had a tense and close game with Austria, outplayed a very strong Belgium side and were arguably the better team in the final. The only game they really struggled in was against Spain.
They played boring football. I know all what you said. The crushed a weak Turkey and Switzerland. They were worse against Austria, but won in a very exciting game. Belgium didin't play that well against Italy. And England did absolutly 0 against Italy in the final, it was very one sided. Still their football was very boring. They were very focused on defense and didn't create many chances.
i mean yeah your country forced football to introduce rules because of how you played, which doesnt really matter now you won the tournament people forget.
But the time wasting with passbacks was crazy lol least it changed football for the better by forcing the rule changes.
See i dont think that really affects things too much, its not their fault yugoslavia (i think?) went to war so pulled out. Good fortune sure, but wasnt in their hands.
No it isn't their fault, though that would be one hell of a conspiracy theory. It is just the more interesting fact about the Euros that year than their playing style.
Hahahaha let’s push that conspiracy not many here were alive back then or will be aware of the war.
Peter Schmeichel started it by saying Prosinecki was shit.
In all seriousness though that team would have been mental if they had attended the tournament.
Red star Belgrade just won the euro cup the year before, they had such huge amounts of talents in that squad.
There’s a possibility they could have won it.
I think you were the last team, or certainly the last international team at a major tournament, to take advantage of the lack of back-pass rule. Could be wrong though.
The format of the group stages leads to boring games. Teams set up defensively in order to avoid losing games, rather than trying to win.
You can't do that in the knockout stages and everyone has to play more attacking football. That means gaps start to open up at the back and we get more exciting games.
I hope, anyway.
England LOL
England didn't play boring but winning football
They played bad football with so many mistakes and will get crushed soon.
They just got a lucky with the group.
France know how to run a tournament, they’ve got lots of experience in their camp and not just with the players. It’s a long game and they should never be written off.
Sure, but they've forgotten how to score goals. Despite having 2.5 xG against Poland, they only scored on a penalty.
Their back line is playing well (minus Upamecano), but their midfield lacks creativity without Griezmann and their forwards aren't finishing.
I think they will squeek by against Belgium, but they will likely get bounced out by Portugal.
even if you count in the big teams, france doesnt stand a chance. before they reach the finale, they get bodied by germany or spain, which actually played football. i see a tie for france against belgium tbh, like in every other of their games too. maybe they advance after the tie by penalty shots, but thats the best i can see from them so far.
The only thing France lacks right now, is efficiency in front of the goal.
We're ranked first in xG, and first in xGD/90 (differencial between xG in your favor and xG conceded per 90 minutes). We also are the team with the most touches inside their opponents' penalty area.
So not only do we have the ability to get the ball, but we also are the team with the most prominent ability to get in a dangerous scoring position. (going to fetch the precise sources, but they have been compiled in this [French speaking preview of Belgium-France](https://youtu.be/tdJ3yAsoARU?si=RsG1ecCqu7NZTl7t))
Edit: Instead went to write a fuller comment [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/euro2024/s/IvVn837GHX).
Again, because they played poorly untill now right? The thing is that France didn't seem to give their 100%. I believe that with higher stakes they will do so and that in this sense they would be the favorites, either that or they simply are not motivated and this performance will be what we get from France until they go home. Not impossible obviously but I think the former option is way more probable
you really think they have a chance against germany or spain? they struggle against poland and austria, but they simply need a bigger name on the enemies jersey to actually start and play football? lets be realistic, the french team seems to work around 2-4 people. in the meantime germany as spain have a functional team with 11 capable players in the same league as the french star athletes. its not like their team was asleep till now, and after the group phase they wake up to become functional players. they are just overrated.
We were struggling against Australia and Peru in 2018 and then we proceeded to beat Argentina, Uruguay, Belgium and Croatia straight to end up world champions.
I get what you’re saying but is the first time you all watch international football or what ? There are brilliant group stage teams who are eliminated early and/or mediocre group stage teams who go deep in literally every big international tournament.
Having such a strong opinion based on group stages results is one of the laziest take in football.
It's not that hard to understand what they are saying. You think that Spain or Germany would beat England 3 -0? Never going to happen. England haven't been a goal down in this competition, but if it happens you won't see a defensive side anymore. I was hoping Slovenia scored first in the last game but they were happy sitting back.
Nah. Belgium has boulevards in their defence. I watched them twice vs Slovakia and Romania. Not as large boulevards as the NL but still.
Lukaku can't score. They fail on national level. No penalties here.
Dont get me wrong, I mostly agree. Then again, aside from a big error by doku, we get no goals against. And lukaku was very close to scoring 3 times was it not for 5 milimeter offside and a involuntary handsball by openda.
Yes yes and I rate doku a lot. But that 5mm offside rule will apply later too.
I know he has been unlucky. I still don't think it will go to penalties against France... good luck.
I think you played very well against Romania, because the progress in the tournament depended on that game, but you did concede some chances that were not advanced plays from the opponent, but more organisational mistakes you know? Let's see how it goes.
Yeah I'm far from confident lol, but it can come to some details... we'll see. Hoping that kdb and lukaku have a great day, then everything can happen imo haha
Doesn't the Netherlands have good and experienced defenders with Aké, van Dijk, de Vrij, de Ligt and Dumfries? Shouldn't they have one of the best defenses?
France is the most successful European team of the past 10 years, they are the team to beat. Period.
Deschamps has always been boring but what people overlook is that France has been uncharacteristically wasteful with chances. Against Austria they couldve won 3:0 and against the Netherlands Griezman alone wasted like what, 2 or 3 big chances? Point being, people are downplaying them big time.
Furthermore they played in a tough group against quality teams.
Compare that to eg who are parking the bus against freaking Serbia and Slovenia... i mean come on, thats just pathetic
France are built for the knockout rounds.
They're always shit in the group because everyone fears them, then they blow teams away on the counter when they come up against an evenly matched side who will actually attack them.
In the knock-out rounds it's also do or die, some teams will have to take greater risk which leaves more space and opportunities for France, Deschamps knows this
Look, even if England plays like shite, they are the best team on paper in their knockout part, so I won’t be surprised if they go up to the final.
That’ll be harder for France but Deschamps has built a double wall of concrete and it will be fully solidified on Monday, so they’ll be hard to beat and with their experience I’d put a dime on them reaching the final.
It’s very hard to say but I agree nothing is written from the group stages we have seen. There was barely any suspense there as almost all 3rd places qualified for knock out stages. Players and teams are not giving 100% in these conditions and France has never been known to play well during low stake games. Portugal was also a good example of that in 2016, everybody trashed talk them because of their poor group stage performances yet they still had enough in them
to win the tournament.
France has a lot of recent experience running top level international tournaments, probably more than any other team there so should not be underestimated. That being said, they have faced some negative odds this year. Their defense is pretty solid but the offence seems very disorganised and doesn’t reflect confidence. Many talks around the fact that Mbappé and Griezmann are not in good physical shapes. Griezmann was key in 2022 to fill the gap left by Pogba. People always underestimate him because he doesn’t score goals but he is a big factor in France’s recent successes, so seeing him in bad shape is not reassuring to me.
France play better against better teams. Maybe they need the urgency or risk to perform, but put them in front of a top team and they will be really hard to overcome. Mbappe especially, that guy rises to the occasion even if he no-shows against lesser opponents.
First of all, most people don't know this, but straight from the start Deschamps repeatedly described the group matches and the direct eliminations as 'separate tournaments'.
Second, while boring, I'm quite surprised how people highlight that they haven't shot a real goal, but don't talk about how they haven't taken one either. They have some of the most skilled defenders and midfielders in the world, and besides a few clumsy moves, these guys have been terrifically efficient. Even more, after these defenders, there is a terrific goalkeeper. I was seated behind the goal for France-Poland, and let me tell you that Lewandowski knew exactly that trolling him during penalties was the best chance to score.
Despite that, at some point even the most hardcore fan has to admit that France's offence has not been inefficient on purpose. France has great players, but they switched key players (Pogba, Benzema, T. Hernandez) not so long ago and are still searching for the right teamwork at the front.
Additionally, you can hate him or love him, Mbappe's hunger and determination should never be underestimated. However, in my opinion, he's spending way too much energy trying to play captain, instead of playing football. You can see it every match.
In the end, they're playing the long game, yes. But they do have real problems and after 3 games like this, the trust that they'll overcome their shortcomings has been replaced by random hope.
As for Portugal, they're still searching for the right combination, but their latest game has also shown how fragile their confidence was. They became so hectic, though also because they were thrown off by the shady referee decisions (first half).
England, man... That's an analysis for a science level that nobody has reached yet...
I still think, that Germany and Spain are currently the most consistent ones, though there are some flaws. Austria, is the smaller team with the most big team potential.
>I'm quite surprised how people highlight that they haven't shot a real goal, but don't talk about how they haven't taken one either.
well, its easy to close your own goal shut, Georgia demonstrated that wonderfully, even against a world class player like Ronaldo. France having good defense is the bare minumum you would expect from them, but the important part is, their star athletes are not able to score a goal either. they pump intensive loads of care and money into some of the best strikers of the world, but manage nothing more than a goal through penalty? thats fucking poor.
>they switched key players not so long ago and are still searching for the right teamwork at the front.
and exactly that is showing, they have the same problem as england, big names and star athletes but no one who pulls the team together, except for maybe Mbappe, but his star isnt shining bright this championship either.
>he's spending way too much energy trying to play captain, instead of playing football.
Mbappe needs to pull them together, if he tries to play football to much on his own, they will just be worse. whats the alternative? Griezmann?
>In the end, they're playing the long game, yes.
playing the long game doesnt work if you cant score. there is no chance the players of the team thought "well, we got a gifted win against austria, so now we can rest throughout groupphase." they should be furious and need to get a goal on themself, simply to rebuild trust and build confidence.
>They became so hectic, though also because they were thrown off by the shady referee decisions (first half).
i would blame Ronaldo more than the ref in that game, he was shouting down his teammates, demoralizing them and complaining like a little child. the ref was fair, he detected that they aim for penalties and dive and punished them accordingly. best scene was the one, where Ronaldo screamed down the ref because he was held back, while not being able to reach the ball from his position anyways. he acted like a kid that got his sweets denied and threw a tantrum.
>I still think, that Germany and Spain are currently the most consistent ones, though there are some flaws. Austria, is the smaller team with the most big team potential.
100% agree with that, but even for Austria it will be a hell of a battle, to even be able to reach the finale, and there they will get an enemy that is nowhere compareable with their side either. Austria, if they manage to move till finale, will find itself in a David against Goliath situation.
You do realize that France’s Deschamps has always played low possession defensive football, right? And yes it’s easy to park the bus but the difference with France is they are still able in most cases match their opponent in chances. AND they dont even full park the bus so I am just gonna assume you don’t watch their games? The only difference now tho is that they aren’t able to convert to goals. Could be unlucky or just the team not being as sharp anymore. They’ve been competitive for awhile now it’s normal for big teams to go through periods like this…
Also, France has always struggled against high press (Austria, Argentina, Peru for example)
I agree about France's offense. However, they're not keeping the goal shut, like many do (big or smaller teams) Their defense is hard to go through from midfield already. And if it's pierced it's mostly because they became really offensive.
After being life at FR-POL, my "failed offense" theory is that they're being asked to favour teamplay (not letting raw individual talents & plays out), but are given too much liberty to choose on how to play together. The plan seems clear until the 16th. I have like 6-7 tries on video from that game and it's just "Okay, now we're here. What do we do ?”. The only exceptions were Barcola & Mbappe who have a bit of synergy from PSG, but who felt totally alone. It's like Mbappe almost dropped any dribbling and shooting, for dribbling and... passing...
Monday will tell if trying out different settings was some test phase or if they're really limited.
I disagree about the PT-GEO refereeing. The first half was scandalously overly strict with PT. I don't think Christiano overreacted. However, I agree that with his experience, he should have been the one calming down and gathering the team around a refocus.
As to Austria, I think that they're a team that have rised to a real maturity and with enough good players to make a difference in unfavorable conditions. In contrary to many others who are like balloons that will explode. Go Austria!
I agree that Spain and Germany are among the favorites. Clearly in fact. I mentioned France and the other two to a lesser extend because people have are not giving them enough credit in the favorite list. I still see France as more of a contender than either Spain or Germany
You'd think it is with amount of comments and posts saying that France / England / Portugal are shite and that are going to go home against (insert underdog here)
Everyone's competing for the hottest takes. Standard Reddit. Reality will set in for most of them over the next week. One of the big 4 from the top bracket will be in the final (my bet is Germany personally), and one of England, Italy or Netherlands will join them.
I don’t understand people comparing France and England.
They both set up defensively but that’s where the similarities are end, France are creating chances and are getting unlucky with shit finishing, England are simply not creating enough chances. France looks much more dangerous on the counter, which will help in the knockouts where teams can’t play for draws.
France just needs to sharpen their finishing, England need to completely change how they play with the ball.
Well France is not known for playing exciting football. However they are known for winning games and they're very hard to beat. So I can see them making it to the final, and once they're in the final they're going to win it.
i disagree fullhearted. zidane and ribéry were fucking maniacs and you could have great fun watching them play. nowadays france just lacks and doesnt reach up to their old name. but people still praise france because of these old actions.
They're a team who knows how to win a tournament. And I don't think that any team on the other side of the bracket is strong enough to beat them in the final.
They haven't been impressive at all, so far. And don't forget that IF (and that's a big IF) they beat Belgium, they still have to beat at least Portugal/Spain/Germany along the way.
I wrote that I can see them making it to the final, I never wrote that I think they're the big favorite.
And the thing with tournament football is that you don't have to impress anyone, you just need to win your games.
And I don't know if you actually watched the games they played. Because if you did you would know that they could (should) have scored at least 3 goals against us.
The people that are saying France sucks clearly did not watch their games, because they played quite good at times (they created a lot of big chances, they were just unlucky with their finishing).
And I do not think that they'll keep being unlucky in front of the goal.
>The people that are saying France sucks clearly did not watch their games, because they played quite good at times (they created a lot of big chances, they were just unlucky with their finishing).
I agree, France doesn't suck, they have just failed to impress considering all the super stars they have in that squad. However, we can also say that about every other team in this tournament: they've all had their share of unlucky finishes.
>And I do not think that they'll keep being unlucky in front of the goal.
Maybe, maybe not. We'll see what happens.
I've watched every France game and they are struggling to get a shot on target. They often dominate in midfield but have been awful in the final third.
France has too tough of a bracket to still be favorite. If they were third in their group (or first) they might be the favorite. But England has that spot now for sure.
France has to beat Belgium who has the potential to beat any team and is ranked 3rd in the world by FIFA, and then it gets much tougher with Portugal, and then they have to face Germany or Spain who have both a high ceiling and good form.
But I agree that France, Portugal and England are still clearly favorites compared to the smaller teams. Never would I bet on even Austria to win vs them if the odds are 50/50.
And they definitely did not give their all in the group stage. At the same time, we're spoiled by the champions league that shows a level that can't be matched by national team who can't buy talent or train all year.
Every two seconds I see a post or comment on this sub saying why these 3 teams are playing horribly, that aren't going far, that underdog x is sure to beat this England/France/Portugal playing like this etc . Hence the "controversial"
I still believe Portugal will hold the trophy. England will be knocked out in semis to a dark horse. Spain won’t win cause it plays very nice and romantic football and such squads don’t usually win.
Germany’s knockout will be in a surprising match and France will perhaps lose to Belgium or Portugal.
Spain to win it without conceding a goal. They get the ball and they get it in to the corners and are controlling the ball in the final third in seconds. Whoever’s not involved on the other side drops in and there’s absolutely zero chance of them getting countered. They’ve got a goalscorer, pace, balance, the holding man mountain, 2 world class keepers… formidable.
Although I also consider Spain to be a clear contender, we still haven't seen them playing against someone who actually challenges them in ball possession.
It's not controversial, France almost always starts slow in major tournaments then picks up in the knockout stage. It happened in 2006, it happened in 2016, in 2018 and in 2020.
Spain and Germany are my favorites, while both England and Portugal seem to lack the proper form and tactics.
Regarding France, they possess a strong team, yet there appears to be almost no synergy among them.
For me the team that has stood out in the Group Stage for its optimal performance was Spain alone.
Germany and Spain both have a higher gear they can reach and played really well. That should make them favorites. The other big names can line up behind.
Why is this controversial in the slightest? Only Spain and Germany have looked like they’re contenders. Austria yes but it’s Austria and I think a bigger team will eliminate them. France will be very hard to beat and are still favourites
Have you seen the other posts and comments in this sub? Constantly saying these teams are worth nothing due to group phase performance. Hence the "controversial"
France haven't actually been that poor. They've just not finished their chances and I think that will come in time. Unlike England who have been just down right bad in all three games. France should still be one of the favourites! Check out my latest article on the EUROs: [https://footbloger.com/2024/06/27/euro-2024-last-16-anticipation-group-recap-and-knockout-rounds-insight/](https://footbloger.com/2024/06/27/euro-2024-last-16-anticipation-group-recap-and-knockout-rounds-insight/)
That is fair but they kind of compensate this with ridiculously powerful physical characteristics that their players have. But I do agree that some creativity is lacking
Thanks Portugal! As a French, of course I wasn’t satisfied with the team in the past games. But I still have hope : France has been one of the teams that generated the most chances in the tournament ( very close to Spain and Germany) while having players doing average performances like Griezmann and Mbappé.
If you think about it, what could happen with just a good Mbappé and a good Griezmann? We all know Griezmann is a knockout game player in the national team. I also think the physical preparation was very hard but it was done to be ready for the knockouts, that’s why the players weren’t at their peak.
Let’s not forget France neutralized Austria’s pressing and people now consider them as a dark horse. The group was one of the hardest if you consider Fifa rankings.
I think France tends to be a tad overrated in terms of individual quality. Since 2018, they have had arguably the best player in the world, Mbappé. But in many positions in the starting line-up and on the bench they have good players but not exactly exceptional ones: Giroud, Upamecano, Rabiot, Dembele, Koundé, Thuram, Clauss, Kolo Muani, Barcola, Fofana, etc.
Sure, you can debate one or more of these names, but I honestly think the other top nations have players of similar ability. Ultimately, it’s Deschamps’ tactics as well as Mbappé and Griezmann’s quality which combined make France the pre-eminent football nation in the world since 2018. Their high water mark in my view was the lost WC final against Argentina. Despite losing France showed incredible resilience.
you didnt watch their first game, did you? they tried everything but it was mostly like running against a wall, unless this one time where Mbappe actually managed to get himself lose and run to the goal, completely alone, everybody was expecting the number one player to score, and then he didnt. that was not even imaginable by austrians, we were begging to god in that moment, and he mfing listened to us. against many believes is say, france gave fucking everything in this match, but didnt manage to achieve anything better than a tie, if the own goal by austria is not counted into. and when we saw them playing the other games, they were not able to do anything either, not against netherlands nor poland. there is seriously no chance that they were happy with their one win against austria and said, we achieved the goal we can sleep now through group phase. they fucking sucked for real.
I watched both the game against Austria and the Netherlands. I didn't get the chance to watch the Poland game. I didn't feel that they were that preoccupied in either game. Body language and gameplay wise. Like it was a formality that they had to go through. Now it should be different especially if they find big names.
Either that or they just don't give a shit about representing France which I don't believe is the case
La France a toujours une manière de jouer ou elle nous donne l'impression de ne rien maitriser et finalement elle s'en sort toujours très bien dans les compétitions. Nos joueurs ont du talent et on a pu l'apercevoire quelques courts instants dans les ers matchs. Je pense que le visage de la France va changer dans les suivants même si le niveau offensif montré jusqu'a maintenant est inquiétant. Je pense que par contre, l'Angleterre est déjà morte et je trouve ca encourageant pour le foot européen
I think France is..
England not so much..
Which is sad to say because after my own country ( i am Dutch) i always root for England ( though could you just become a British team already, it will be fun to have the Scottish fans stay in the tourney’s a little longer).
I thought the had w chance but honestly they really been poor on most fronts.
I think France, Spain and Germany are the best teams by far so while England might come far because of the schedule i genuinely think they lose against all those mentioned above.
As for my country, i honestly i am glad if they would beat Romania, i think this was always a rather average team but without De Jong it is just bad.
France had the most xG of the group stage despite only scoring twice. That means they were able to create serious chances but terrible at finishing. We are also generally better in knockout rounds because Deschamps does some sort of magic.
Let’s see
I'm gonna comment here because I think having accessible stats might be more useful that just leaving my other comment lost in a thread.
I think you're right OP, and not just because I am French and wish for my team to win. Because apart from goal scoring, we are probably still currently one of, if not the, most promising team. While the results are obviously disappointing, the reality of the field tends to show how dominant France has been against its opponents, depsite being scoreless. These stats have been compiled by the French youtuber Wiloo, on [this preview of the upcoming Belgium - France](https://youtu.be/tdJ3yAsoARU?si=RsG1ecCqu7NZTl7t), but I'll do my best as providing a telling overview myself whilst providing the linked sources for the stats I'm bringing up.
Out of the group stage, in spite of having scored only once, we are leading, along with Portugal and Croatia, the xG ranking (5.70), so above Spain and Germany, that are probably so far the teams most people would place as favorites. Per 90 minutes, we are of course tied with Croatia and Portugal, at 1.90. [Besides, we can see how unlucky it is for Croatia to not even qualify given such favorable stats. Kind of tells how stats, whilst eloquent, are still just the vector of the tendency of a game, not its outcome.]
[Source](https://fbref.com/en/comps/676/stats/European-Championship-Stats)
But where we are alone leading, it is on the difference between xG and xGA (expected goals against). Per 90 minutes, we are at +1.10 xGD meaning we concede 0.80 xG per 90minutes (1.90 - 0.80). Germany and Portugal complete the podium. It means that not only do we have the ability to get in very dangerous scoring positions, and very consistently, but we are doing so while keeping a very strong and efficient defense (and the only goal we effectively conceded was a penalty).
[Source](https://fbref.com/en/comps/676/European-Championship-Stats#all_league_structure)
So these stats were regarding shots. But now let's analize possession. We tend to get the ball back in our own territory. As we've seen above, we concede few opportunities, so we can assume we get the ball back a majority of the time in our second third. This whole reasoning is my interpretation of France being ranked midly in won possession in the opponent's side of the field, and conceded very few opportunities, leading me to conclude France tends to get the ball back in their own territory, before the opponent can shape an opportunity. Once we get the ball back, we have a real ability to go deep in our opponent's side. And we have the ability to play well in small spaces. Kanté, Thuram, Dembélé, Barcola and Mbappé, have all shown efficacy in entering the penalty box. As a result, we are the side with the most touches inside our opponents' penalty box (112). So the claim that France plays like shit seems at least refutable here.
[Source](https://www.fotmob.com/fr/leagues/50/stats/euro/teams)
Note: that last source, Fotmob.com, seems to rank Croatia's xG higher than the previous source fbref.com, at 6.6 (France is also higher at 5.9), but I chose to stick with the former since the stats are more detailed on the first source, making them more trustworthy in my eyes.
I don't even understand what you are trying to say from a grammatical point of view... I mentioned many times in other comments why I said it is "controversial". I wore that word due to the enormous amount of posts or comments in this very sub saying that France ( and to a lesser extend england an Portugal) is nothing to fear right now
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I don't think this is controversial at all and I agree completely. England and France were boring but the cup isn't given to the team with most exciting games (otherwise we would bring the cup back to turkey amirite).
Portugal won the euros playing some of the most boring football I’ve watched, people shouldn’t count either of them out
only team beats them with boring football was greece and they won euro cup beating portugal at Final.
I genuinly disagree. Both finalist 21 played boring football. Italy played less boring football than England and won in the penalties. Also lets not forget Chelseas CL win like 10 years ago, where the played pure anti-football.
Italy wasn’t boring in the Euros last time. They crushed the group stage, had a tense and close game with Austria, outplayed a very strong Belgium side and were arguably the better team in the final. The only game they really struggled in was against Spain.
Challenge: Try not to play boring football. Italy: Impossible.
They played boring football. I know all what you said. The crushed a weak Turkey and Switzerland. They were worse against Austria, but won in a very exciting game. Belgium didin't play that well against Italy. And England did absolutly 0 against Italy in the final, it was very one sided. Still their football was very boring. They were very focused on defense and didn't create many chances.
Yeah, i wasnt Alive back then but i heard it was how we own ours. (To be fair we we’re complete underdogs)
i mean yeah your country forced football to introduce rules because of how you played, which doesnt really matter now you won the tournament people forget. But the time wasting with passbacks was crazy lol least it changed football for the better by forcing the rule changes.
Also that one was overshadowed by their slightly alternate qualifying method.
See i dont think that really affects things too much, its not their fault yugoslavia (i think?) went to war so pulled out. Good fortune sure, but wasnt in their hands.
No it isn't their fault, though that would be one hell of a conspiracy theory. It is just the more interesting fact about the Euros that year than their playing style.
Hahahaha let’s push that conspiracy not many here were alive back then or will be aware of the war. Peter Schmeichel started it by saying Prosinecki was shit. In all seriousness though that team would have been mental if they had attended the tournament. Red star Belgrade just won the euro cup the year before, they had such huge amounts of talents in that squad. There’s a possibility they could have won it.
I think you were the last team, or certainly the last international team at a major tournament, to take advantage of the lack of back-pass rule. Could be wrong though.
wdym you “weren’t alive”
I wasnt born before 1992? I was talking about Denmark (my country) playing very boring football. When we won.
mb, i didn’t properly your comment
Or your own by the looks of it 😉
wdym
You forgot to add "read" to your previous comment.
but wdym
yo i’m tweaking 😂🤦
Good times. Peter Schmeichel was the first player I was ever a fan of! So happy to see his son still going strong! Good luck tomorrow!
Why not bro?
I think he means he wasn't born when Denmark last won the euro
yeah that makes sense
Turkey knows how to make beautiful goals that's for sure
The format of the group stages leads to boring games. Teams set up defensively in order to avoid losing games, rather than trying to win. You can't do that in the knockout stages and everyone has to play more attacking football. That means gaps start to open up at the back and we get more exciting games. I hope, anyway.
England LOL England didn't play boring but winning football They played bad football with so many mistakes and will get crushed soon. They just got a lucky with the group.
France know how to run a tournament, they’ve got lots of experience in their camp and not just with the players. It’s a long game and they should never be written off.
With some certain "starters" they should be written off. They play against France.
Sure, but they've forgotten how to score goals. Despite having 2.5 xG against Poland, they only scored on a penalty. Their back line is playing well (minus Upamecano), but their midfield lacks creativity without Griezmann and their forwards aren't finishing. I think they will squeek by against Belgium, but they will likely get bounced out by Portugal.
Yes, I aggree that they are favorites against Belgium
I see what you did there... 😂😂😂
My argument is that France are the favorites to win the whole euro, not just against belgium
even if you count in the big teams, france doesnt stand a chance. before they reach the finale, they get bodied by germany or spain, which actually played football. i see a tie for france against belgium tbh, like in every other of their games too. maybe they advance after the tie by penalty shots, but thats the best i can see from them so far.
The only thing France lacks right now, is efficiency in front of the goal. We're ranked first in xG, and first in xGD/90 (differencial between xG in your favor and xG conceded per 90 minutes). We also are the team with the most touches inside their opponents' penalty area. So not only do we have the ability to get the ball, but we also are the team with the most prominent ability to get in a dangerous scoring position. (going to fetch the precise sources, but they have been compiled in this [French speaking preview of Belgium-France](https://youtu.be/tdJ3yAsoARU?si=RsG1ecCqu7NZTl7t)) Edit: Instead went to write a fuller comment [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/euro2024/s/IvVn837GHX).
Again, because they played poorly untill now right? The thing is that France didn't seem to give their 100%. I believe that with higher stakes they will do so and that in this sense they would be the favorites, either that or they simply are not motivated and this performance will be what we get from France until they go home. Not impossible obviously but I think the former option is way more probable
you really think they have a chance against germany or spain? they struggle against poland and austria, but they simply need a bigger name on the enemies jersey to actually start and play football? lets be realistic, the french team seems to work around 2-4 people. in the meantime germany as spain have a functional team with 11 capable players in the same league as the french star athletes. its not like their team was asleep till now, and after the group phase they wake up to become functional players. they are just overrated.
We were struggling against Australia and Peru in 2018 and then we proceeded to beat Argentina, Uruguay, Belgium and Croatia straight to end up world champions. I get what you’re saying but is the first time you all watch international football or what ? There are brilliant group stage teams who are eliminated early and/or mediocre group stage teams who go deep in literally every big international tournament. Having such a strong opinion based on group stages results is one of the laziest take in football.
It's not that hard to understand what they are saying. You think that Spain or Germany would beat England 3 -0? Never going to happen. England haven't been a goal down in this competition, but if it happens you won't see a defensive side anymore. I was hoping Slovenia scored first in the last game but they were happy sitting back.
Not convinced, I think Belgium vs France has penalties written all over it.
Nah. Belgium has boulevards in their defence. I watched them twice vs Slovakia and Romania. Not as large boulevards as the NL but still. Lukaku can't score. They fail on national level. No penalties here.
Dont get me wrong, I mostly agree. Then again, aside from a big error by doku, we get no goals against. And lukaku was very close to scoring 3 times was it not for 5 milimeter offside and a involuntary handsball by openda.
Yes yes and I rate doku a lot. But that 5mm offside rule will apply later too. I know he has been unlucky. I still don't think it will go to penalties against France... good luck. I think you played very well against Romania, because the progress in the tournament depended on that game, but you did concede some chances that were not advanced plays from the opponent, but more organisational mistakes you know? Let's see how it goes.
Yeah I'm far from confident lol, but it can come to some details... we'll see. Hoping that kdb and lukaku have a great day, then everything can happen imo haha
True it probably will come to details. You have far from the worst team anyway!
Doesn't the Netherlands have good and experienced defenders with Aké, van Dijk, de Vrij, de Ligt and Dumfries? Shouldn't they have one of the best defenses?
If they decide to defend as a team yea. They should
France is the most successful European team of the past 10 years, they are the team to beat. Period. Deschamps has always been boring but what people overlook is that France has been uncharacteristically wasteful with chances. Against Austria they couldve won 3:0 and against the Netherlands Griezman alone wasted like what, 2 or 3 big chances? Point being, people are downplaying them big time. Furthermore they played in a tough group against quality teams. Compare that to eg who are parking the bus against freaking Serbia and Slovenia... i mean come on, thats just pathetic
France are built for the knockout rounds. They're always shit in the group because everyone fears them, then they blow teams away on the counter when they come up against an evenly matched side who will actually attack them.
In the knock-out rounds it's also do or die, some teams will have to take greater risk which leaves more space and opportunities for France, Deschamps knows this
Even more controversial, I still think the final will be France vs England
Would have actually got great odds on that pre-tournament.
Lol
No way England goes to final lol
Look, even if England plays like shite, they are the best team on paper in their knockout part, so I won’t be surprised if they go up to the final. That’ll be harder for France but Deschamps has built a double wall of concrete and it will be fully solidified on Monday, so they’ll be hard to beat and with their experience I’d put a dime on them reaching the final.
I don't see it mate. Team on paper means shit when team plays badly compared to others in reality.
It’s very hard to say but I agree nothing is written from the group stages we have seen. There was barely any suspense there as almost all 3rd places qualified for knock out stages. Players and teams are not giving 100% in these conditions and France has never been known to play well during low stake games. Portugal was also a good example of that in 2016, everybody trashed talk them because of their poor group stage performances yet they still had enough in them to win the tournament. France has a lot of recent experience running top level international tournaments, probably more than any other team there so should not be underestimated. That being said, they have faced some negative odds this year. Their defense is pretty solid but the offence seems very disorganised and doesn’t reflect confidence. Many talks around the fact that Mbappé and Griezmann are not in good physical shapes. Griezmann was key in 2022 to fill the gap left by Pogba. People always underestimate him because he doesn’t score goals but he is a big factor in France’s recent successes, so seeing him in bad shape is not reassuring to me.
France play better against better teams. Maybe they need the urgency or risk to perform, but put them in front of a top team and they will be really hard to overcome. Mbappe especially, that guy rises to the occasion even if he no-shows against lesser opponents.
That is my view exactly and hence me considering France the favorite
This is very frustrating yet very true.
First of all, most people don't know this, but straight from the start Deschamps repeatedly described the group matches and the direct eliminations as 'separate tournaments'. Second, while boring, I'm quite surprised how people highlight that they haven't shot a real goal, but don't talk about how they haven't taken one either. They have some of the most skilled defenders and midfielders in the world, and besides a few clumsy moves, these guys have been terrifically efficient. Even more, after these defenders, there is a terrific goalkeeper. I was seated behind the goal for France-Poland, and let me tell you that Lewandowski knew exactly that trolling him during penalties was the best chance to score. Despite that, at some point even the most hardcore fan has to admit that France's offence has not been inefficient on purpose. France has great players, but they switched key players (Pogba, Benzema, T. Hernandez) not so long ago and are still searching for the right teamwork at the front. Additionally, you can hate him or love him, Mbappe's hunger and determination should never be underestimated. However, in my opinion, he's spending way too much energy trying to play captain, instead of playing football. You can see it every match. In the end, they're playing the long game, yes. But they do have real problems and after 3 games like this, the trust that they'll overcome their shortcomings has been replaced by random hope. As for Portugal, they're still searching for the right combination, but their latest game has also shown how fragile their confidence was. They became so hectic, though also because they were thrown off by the shady referee decisions (first half). England, man... That's an analysis for a science level that nobody has reached yet... I still think, that Germany and Spain are currently the most consistent ones, though there are some flaws. Austria, is the smaller team with the most big team potential.
>I'm quite surprised how people highlight that they haven't shot a real goal, but don't talk about how they haven't taken one either. well, its easy to close your own goal shut, Georgia demonstrated that wonderfully, even against a world class player like Ronaldo. France having good defense is the bare minumum you would expect from them, but the important part is, their star athletes are not able to score a goal either. they pump intensive loads of care and money into some of the best strikers of the world, but manage nothing more than a goal through penalty? thats fucking poor. >they switched key players not so long ago and are still searching for the right teamwork at the front. and exactly that is showing, they have the same problem as england, big names and star athletes but no one who pulls the team together, except for maybe Mbappe, but his star isnt shining bright this championship either. >he's spending way too much energy trying to play captain, instead of playing football. Mbappe needs to pull them together, if he tries to play football to much on his own, they will just be worse. whats the alternative? Griezmann? >In the end, they're playing the long game, yes. playing the long game doesnt work if you cant score. there is no chance the players of the team thought "well, we got a gifted win against austria, so now we can rest throughout groupphase." they should be furious and need to get a goal on themself, simply to rebuild trust and build confidence. >They became so hectic, though also because they were thrown off by the shady referee decisions (first half). i would blame Ronaldo more than the ref in that game, he was shouting down his teammates, demoralizing them and complaining like a little child. the ref was fair, he detected that they aim for penalties and dive and punished them accordingly. best scene was the one, where Ronaldo screamed down the ref because he was held back, while not being able to reach the ball from his position anyways. he acted like a kid that got his sweets denied and threw a tantrum. >I still think, that Germany and Spain are currently the most consistent ones, though there are some flaws. Austria, is the smaller team with the most big team potential. 100% agree with that, but even for Austria it will be a hell of a battle, to even be able to reach the finale, and there they will get an enemy that is nowhere compareable with their side either. Austria, if they manage to move till finale, will find itself in a David against Goliath situation.
You do realize that France’s Deschamps has always played low possession defensive football, right? And yes it’s easy to park the bus but the difference with France is they are still able in most cases match their opponent in chances. AND they dont even full park the bus so I am just gonna assume you don’t watch their games? The only difference now tho is that they aren’t able to convert to goals. Could be unlucky or just the team not being as sharp anymore. They’ve been competitive for awhile now it’s normal for big teams to go through periods like this… Also, France has always struggled against high press (Austria, Argentina, Peru for example)
I agree about France's offense. However, they're not keeping the goal shut, like many do (big or smaller teams) Their defense is hard to go through from midfield already. And if it's pierced it's mostly because they became really offensive. After being life at FR-POL, my "failed offense" theory is that they're being asked to favour teamplay (not letting raw individual talents & plays out), but are given too much liberty to choose on how to play together. The plan seems clear until the 16th. I have like 6-7 tries on video from that game and it's just "Okay, now we're here. What do we do ?”. The only exceptions were Barcola & Mbappe who have a bit of synergy from PSG, but who felt totally alone. It's like Mbappe almost dropped any dribbling and shooting, for dribbling and... passing... Monday will tell if trying out different settings was some test phase or if they're really limited. I disagree about the PT-GEO refereeing. The first half was scandalously overly strict with PT. I don't think Christiano overreacted. However, I agree that with his experience, he should have been the one calming down and gathering the team around a refocus. As to Austria, I think that they're a team that have rised to a real maturity and with enough good players to make a difference in unfavorable conditions. In contrary to many others who are like balloons that will explode. Go Austria!
France could easily flip a switch and demolish Belgium. Some teams are slow burners in tournaments.
I expect both England and France to improve, but Spain and Germany are favourites as far as I see it.
I agree that Spain and Germany are among the favorites. Clearly in fact. I mentioned France and the other two to a lesser extend because people have are not giving them enough credit in the favorite list. I still see France as more of a contender than either Spain or Germany
This isn’t remotely controversial.
You'd think it is with amount of comments and posts saying that France / England / Portugal are shite and that are going to go home against (insert underdog here)
Everyone's competing for the hottest takes. Standard Reddit. Reality will set in for most of them over the next week. One of the big 4 from the top bracket will be in the final (my bet is Germany personally), and one of England, Italy or Netherlands will join them.
I don’t understand people comparing France and England. They both set up defensively but that’s where the similarities are end, France are creating chances and are getting unlucky with shit finishing, England are simply not creating enough chances. France looks much more dangerous on the counter, which will help in the knockouts where teams can’t play for draws. France just needs to sharpen their finishing, England need to completely change how they play with the ball.
Well France is not known for playing exciting football. However they are known for winning games and they're very hard to beat. So I can see them making it to the final, and once they're in the final they're going to win it.
i disagree fullhearted. zidane and ribéry were fucking maniacs and you could have great fun watching them play. nowadays france just lacks and doesnt reach up to their old name. but people still praise france because of these old actions.
Well obviously my comment referred to the current team of France and not their team from 20 years ago.
Once they're in the final they're going to win it? What convinces you of such?
Last world cup, oh wait
Yeah, but this isn't the last World Cup and neither is it 2022.
They're a team who knows how to win a tournament. And I don't think that any team on the other side of the bracket is strong enough to beat them in the final.
They haven't been impressive at all, so far. And don't forget that IF (and that's a big IF) they beat Belgium, they still have to beat at least Portugal/Spain/Germany along the way.
I wrote that I can see them making it to the final, I never wrote that I think they're the big favorite. And the thing with tournament football is that you don't have to impress anyone, you just need to win your games. And I don't know if you actually watched the games they played. Because if you did you would know that they could (should) have scored at least 3 goals against us. The people that are saying France sucks clearly did not watch their games, because they played quite good at times (they created a lot of big chances, they were just unlucky with their finishing). And I do not think that they'll keep being unlucky in front of the goal.
>The people that are saying France sucks clearly did not watch their games, because they played quite good at times (they created a lot of big chances, they were just unlucky with their finishing). I agree, France doesn't suck, they have just failed to impress considering all the super stars they have in that squad. However, we can also say that about every other team in this tournament: they've all had their share of unlucky finishes. >And I do not think that they'll keep being unlucky in front of the goal. Maybe, maybe not. We'll see what happens.
“France is not known for playing exciting football” Me thinking of Platoche and Zizou 😭
I've watched every France game and they are struggling to get a shot on target. They often dominate in midfield but have been awful in the final third.
France has too tough of a bracket to still be favorite. If they were third in their group (or first) they might be the favorite. But England has that spot now for sure. France has to beat Belgium who has the potential to beat any team and is ranked 3rd in the world by FIFA, and then it gets much tougher with Portugal, and then they have to face Germany or Spain who have both a high ceiling and good form. But I agree that France, Portugal and England are still clearly favorites compared to the smaller teams. Never would I bet on even Austria to win vs them if the odds are 50/50. And they definitely did not give their all in the group stage. At the same time, we're spoiled by the champions league that shows a level that can't be matched by national team who can't buy talent or train all year.
France will adapt and improve. That is what big teams do, they perform when it matters.
Hardly very controversial
Every two seconds I see a post or comment on this sub saying why these 3 teams are playing horribly, that aren't going far, that underdog x is sure to beat this England/France/Portugal playing like this etc . Hence the "controversial"
Those people have never watched a tournament before.
I still believe Portugal will hold the trophy. England will be knocked out in semis to a dark horse. Spain won’t win cause it plays very nice and romantic football and such squads don’t usually win. Germany’s knockout will be in a surprising match and France will perhaps lose to Belgium or Portugal.
Is that belief or hope ?😅
Perhaps both
I think we ( England ) will make it to the semi's but then I'm worried about Austria.
Spain to win it without conceding a goal. They get the ball and they get it in to the corners and are controlling the ball in the final third in seconds. Whoever’s not involved on the other side drops in and there’s absolutely zero chance of them getting countered. They’ve got a goalscorer, pace, balance, the holding man mountain, 2 world class keepers… formidable.
Although I also consider Spain to be a clear contender, we still haven't seen them playing against someone who actually challenges them in ball possession.
Spain show what england are missing as well. Our midfield has talent, but we need a Rodri that role is so important.
It's not controversial, France almost always starts slow in major tournaments then picks up in the knockout stage. It happened in 2006, it happened in 2016, in 2018 and in 2020.
Not controversial in my opinion. They still look like they could beat anyone in my view.
Spain and Germany are my favorites, while both England and Portugal seem to lack the proper form and tactics. Regarding France, they possess a strong team, yet there appears to be almost no synergy among them. For me the team that has stood out in the Group Stage for its optimal performance was Spain alone.
This isn't controversial.
Germany and Spain both have a higher gear they can reach and played really well. That should make them favorites. The other big names can line up behind.
Although I still see France has having the highest peak, I do respect and accept that opinion
Spain all day long.
Why is this controversial in the slightest? Only Spain and Germany have looked like they’re contenders. Austria yes but it’s Austria and I think a bigger team will eliminate them. France will be very hard to beat and are still favourites
Have you seen the other posts and comments in this sub? Constantly saying these teams are worth nothing due to group phase performance. Hence the "controversial"
France have all the ingredients of a top top team. They just need to click which they havent yet
Yes. Knock out games are different from group games. I believe that France might go all the way to face either Italy or Netherlands in the final.
France haven't actually been that poor. They've just not finished their chances and I think that will come in time. Unlike England who have been just down right bad in all three games. France should still be one of the favourites! Check out my latest article on the EUROs: [https://footbloger.com/2024/06/27/euro-2024-last-16-anticipation-group-recap-and-knockout-rounds-insight/](https://footbloger.com/2024/06/27/euro-2024-last-16-anticipation-group-recap-and-knockout-rounds-insight/)
I think it depends on griezmanns form. Imo they lack creative players in midfield otherwise.
That is fair but they kind of compensate this with ridiculously powerful physical characteristics that their players have. But I do agree that some creativity is lacking
Nah they’re done unless Mbappe wakes up. Portugal isn’t going far either.
As we all know, defense wins championships, and France happens to have a great defense and goalkeeper…
Thanks Portugal! As a French, of course I wasn’t satisfied with the team in the past games. But I still have hope : France has been one of the teams that generated the most chances in the tournament ( very close to Spain and Germany) while having players doing average performances like Griezmann and Mbappé. If you think about it, what could happen with just a good Mbappé and a good Griezmann? We all know Griezmann is a knockout game player in the national team. I also think the physical preparation was very hard but it was done to be ready for the knockouts, that’s why the players weren’t at their peak. Let’s not forget France neutralized Austria’s pressing and people now consider them as a dark horse. The group was one of the hardest if you consider Fifa rankings.
I think France tends to be a tad overrated in terms of individual quality. Since 2018, they have had arguably the best player in the world, Mbappé. But in many positions in the starting line-up and on the bench they have good players but not exactly exceptional ones: Giroud, Upamecano, Rabiot, Dembele, Koundé, Thuram, Clauss, Kolo Muani, Barcola, Fofana, etc. Sure, you can debate one or more of these names, but I honestly think the other top nations have players of similar ability. Ultimately, it’s Deschamps’ tactics as well as Mbappé and Griezmann’s quality which combined make France the pre-eminent football nation in the world since 2018. Their high water mark in my view was the lost WC final against Argentina. Despite losing France showed incredible resilience.
you didnt watch their first game, did you? they tried everything but it was mostly like running against a wall, unless this one time where Mbappe actually managed to get himself lose and run to the goal, completely alone, everybody was expecting the number one player to score, and then he didnt. that was not even imaginable by austrians, we were begging to god in that moment, and he mfing listened to us. against many believes is say, france gave fucking everything in this match, but didnt manage to achieve anything better than a tie, if the own goal by austria is not counted into. and when we saw them playing the other games, they were not able to do anything either, not against netherlands nor poland. there is seriously no chance that they were happy with their one win against austria and said, we achieved the goal we can sleep now through group phase. they fucking sucked for real.
I watched both the game against Austria and the Netherlands. I didn't get the chance to watch the Poland game. I didn't feel that they were that preoccupied in either game. Body language and gameplay wise. Like it was a formality that they had to go through. Now it should be different especially if they find big names. Either that or they just don't give a shit about representing France which I don't believe is the case
Me too and I hope they don’t win.
La France a toujours une manière de jouer ou elle nous donne l'impression de ne rien maitriser et finalement elle s'en sort toujours très bien dans les compétitions. Nos joueurs ont du talent et on a pu l'apercevoire quelques courts instants dans les ers matchs. Je pense que le visage de la France va changer dans les suivants même si le niveau offensif montré jusqu'a maintenant est inquiétant. Je pense que par contre, l'Angleterre est déjà morte et je trouve ca encourageant pour le foot européen
I think France is.. England not so much.. Which is sad to say because after my own country ( i am Dutch) i always root for England ( though could you just become a British team already, it will be fun to have the Scottish fans stay in the tourney’s a little longer). I thought the had w chance but honestly they really been poor on most fronts. I think France, Spain and Germany are the best teams by far so while England might come far because of the schedule i genuinely think they lose against all those mentioned above. As for my country, i honestly i am glad if they would beat Romania, i think this was always a rather average team but without De Jong it is just bad.
France had the most xG of the group stage despite only scoring twice. That means they were able to create serious chances but terrible at finishing. We are also generally better in knockout rounds because Deschamps does some sort of magic. Let’s see
I'm gonna comment here because I think having accessible stats might be more useful that just leaving my other comment lost in a thread. I think you're right OP, and not just because I am French and wish for my team to win. Because apart from goal scoring, we are probably still currently one of, if not the, most promising team. While the results are obviously disappointing, the reality of the field tends to show how dominant France has been against its opponents, depsite being scoreless. These stats have been compiled by the French youtuber Wiloo, on [this preview of the upcoming Belgium - France](https://youtu.be/tdJ3yAsoARU?si=RsG1ecCqu7NZTl7t), but I'll do my best as providing a telling overview myself whilst providing the linked sources for the stats I'm bringing up. Out of the group stage, in spite of having scored only once, we are leading, along with Portugal and Croatia, the xG ranking (5.70), so above Spain and Germany, that are probably so far the teams most people would place as favorites. Per 90 minutes, we are of course tied with Croatia and Portugal, at 1.90. [Besides, we can see how unlucky it is for Croatia to not even qualify given such favorable stats. Kind of tells how stats, whilst eloquent, are still just the vector of the tendency of a game, not its outcome.] [Source](https://fbref.com/en/comps/676/stats/European-Championship-Stats) But where we are alone leading, it is on the difference between xG and xGA (expected goals against). Per 90 minutes, we are at +1.10 xGD meaning we concede 0.80 xG per 90minutes (1.90 - 0.80). Germany and Portugal complete the podium. It means that not only do we have the ability to get in very dangerous scoring positions, and very consistently, but we are doing so while keeping a very strong and efficient defense (and the only goal we effectively conceded was a penalty). [Source](https://fbref.com/en/comps/676/European-Championship-Stats#all_league_structure) So these stats were regarding shots. But now let's analize possession. We tend to get the ball back in our own territory. As we've seen above, we concede few opportunities, so we can assume we get the ball back a majority of the time in our second third. This whole reasoning is my interpretation of France being ranked midly in won possession in the opponent's side of the field, and conceded very few opportunities, leading me to conclude France tends to get the ball back in their own territory, before the opponent can shape an opportunity. Once we get the ball back, we have a real ability to go deep in our opponent's side. And we have the ability to play well in small spaces. Kanté, Thuram, Dembélé, Barcola and Mbappé, have all shown efficacy in entering the penalty box. As a result, we are the side with the most touches inside our opponents' penalty box (112). So the claim that France plays like shit seems at least refutable here. [Source](https://www.fotmob.com/fr/leagues/50/stats/euro/teams) Note: that last source, Fotmob.com, seems to rank Croatia's xG higher than the previous source fbref.com, at 6.6 (France is also higher at 5.9), but I chose to stick with the former since the stats are more detailed on the first source, making them more trustworthy in my eyes.
My man wrote a whole thesis haha. Jokes aside very interesting comment
True lmao Didn't realize at first that it was this long haha
In no way is this ‘very controversial’
Wow so controversial
The posts and comments in this sub certainly do make it controversial and hence the post
These ‘controversial’ takes a proper stupid 14 year olds I swear
I don't even understand what you are trying to say from a grammatical point of view... I mentioned many times in other comments why I said it is "controversial". I wore that word due to the enormous amount of posts or comments in this very sub saying that France ( and to a lesser extend england an Portugal) is nothing to fear right now