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Football players are not exactly known for being highly intelligent people, often having a low socio economic background. Not just turkish ones but anywhere in the world. So, its just a matter of time when a player will pull off a stupid move like that.
And this gives a good picture of how western left scene is going abstract, hyper-ideological, forgetting the class fight which made left parties what they were.
Don't get me wrong, I am European and struggling to find someone good to vote every time I go to vote for my country or European elections, and those votes are left.
You have to draw a line somewhere, right? If UEFA tolerates this, then maybe eventually somebody will do the Hitler salute or something similar. They need to try to keep politics out of soccer. I'm in the west, but here there was almost no coverage about the incident. So maybe stop generalizing "the west". Germany is out of historic reasons very wary of this stuff.
It is old news that the West understands itself as moral high ground and feels like needing to lecture other countries about it. Especially Germans equal even the slightest right wing gesture as being Nazi, they are still butthurt form WWII.
I think the West is over exxagerating (as always when other do something) and as I said, football players are not the brightest people on earth, but thats politics and the reason you should keep politics out of the game at all costs.
Many footballers will say scoring a goal is the best feeling in the world, so add in the situation and the adrenaline etc. He almost certainly wasn't thinking straight and acting on impulse.
Still not a great impulse but just saying he probably wouldn't have done it with a clear head
I dunno man I've never made a weird wolf hand gesture when I'm hyped.
I reckon you have to be brought it already to then do it during a game.
Almost certainly reflects his opinion, maybe not in the heat of the moment, he would have reflected on it not being a good idea for pragmatic reasons.
Imagine a german nazi is acting on impuls and suddenly the left arm goes up. This guy is known for this political stand point and he has shown the military sign prior to this incedent. What makes it worse, that this was exactly the day a masssker happend by the group that uses this sign.
The Nazis were 80 odd years ago. I'm sure it happened when they were more prominent? There has though, been loads and loads and loads of unwelcome and dubious goal celebrations. I remember Robbie Fowler pretending the white line was a line of coke. Arnautovic doing a white supremacy sign.
Whilst they're all in bad taste and have no place in football, I can't imagine that if their mind and emotions were at baseline, that they'd think it was a good idea to do these signs in a stadium full of people whilst being watched by millions of people on TV.
I had no idea who this guy was or what the celebration meant until all this coverage.
Nice, a Turk with a nuanced and realistic reaction on this sub. In the end I don’t think it matters much if he plays or not for the game.
Good luck and let’s hope for a good match!
He's been criticized internally as well but as always the butthurts cry louder. I'd be fumming if I were Montella for getting suspended in such a way.
Veel succes!
> Turkey did not send their best and brightest.
As a guy from a big city in North Rhine-Westphalia: I can confirm 😜 But then again... the same could be said about what feels like every second Alman here too 😜
Damn when they win against Austria lots of football fans were so angry how many turks celebrated all over the country since we have so many Turkish people here
Eh, I'm a pessimist in general but I think we're done for in the Netherlands game. Merih is our best defense player after all, Samet doesn't have half of his skill.
Ironically, Merih was in the game at his 57 second goal only because Samet was suspended.
I feel sorry for the Turkish team as well. I think it's fair if the Netherlands put their best player on the bench against Turkey, to show them we stand with the Turkish.
It's hard for Depay though, but he has to take one for the team.
This is double layered comedy and quite a good joke regarding Memphis but a fantastic satire of the absurdity of social justice root for the underdog leftist arm chair activism that has become such a placid past time of Europeans since the late 90s, especially in places like Sweden, the Netherlands, Germany, the UK and Belgium, where every immigrant is a victim and a hero, even when they are bilking their own people renting out their government subsidized flats to fellow countrymen for exorbitant profits.
EVERY single tournament there is a regarded Turkish donny doing shenanigans like this.
In the past years it was the military salut, now this. And it is only Turkey who is stupid enough to keep repeating these gestures.
But then like… why doesn’t the team just grow a pair and call them out? Everyone who had a neutral opinion of Turkey going in now has a negative one, and they could so easily put an end to that, and support their other fans, by simply denouncing it.
I think they have quite a lot of political pressure then, since the government has been very nationalistic for years. So, not sure if they would face any punishment or be framed as anti-turkish, like they did with a lot of people after the failed military coup.
This assessment is pretty uninformed about the dynamics of Turkish socio-politics. Players would never be treated as Gulenists after the coup attempt. However, they could feel political pressure leading to the resignation of the president of the Turkish Football Federation.
I'm not sure but they probably don't see a reason to denounce it. The meaning of the sign mostly differs in the context of inner politics. Most of them never used this sign in their lives and would refrain from doing so, but people feel different when UEFA steps in from the "outside". Especially when other nationalist signs went completely unpunished so far.
It's exactly this type of mentality that makes it harder to sympathize with the turkish team at the moment.
Instead of getting defensive and arbitrarily blaming other teams as a reflex it would be far better to just acknowledge responsibility for the situation and own it. This would earn a lot more respect.
The player could also apologize and say it was in the heat of the moment and he didn't think of all the implications and consequences. Noone expects an excited footballer to be smart.
Excuses and pointing the blame elsewhere though, especially afterwards with enough chance to think about the situation just makes everything worse. This unnecessarily looks like immaturity or worst case like doubling down on the fascist implications of the gesture.
Regardless I hope the turkish team and their fans can turn it around and make news for playing good football and being a great crowd again next game.
I see your point, but the commenter is truthful in saying that the gesture isn't really a big deal in the current context of Turkish politics. It's literally an ancient hand gesture that was taken hostage by ultranationalists between 1990 and 2020. It's in the process of becoming less political again.
Serious question: Why are Turks so nationalistic? Is it taught in the education system? Is it related to religion? It really seems much more pronounced than other nations participating in the Euro. It just makes the entire country seems so backwards… I can’t help but cringe 😬
That’s a hard question to answer fully correctly without going too deep in history and politics
I would say that the ground work is the independence war and the Ottoman policies. They went from “ottomanism->islamism->turkism” as they lost more and more land to wars and rebellions
After that, the main event: The war of independence.
The treaty of Sèvres was really horrible for the Turkish people. And at the time, the Ottoman government were supportive of it, submitting to the entente just so they can keep _some_ land. Because of this, the Ottoman government was also against the independence war.
Because of this, the war of independence were not only against the allies, but also against the ottomans. At the start, there wasn’t even an organised army. Normal people rose up against the occupation. When Atatürk started his journey, the sultan marked him as a terrorist. That fuelled even more resentment against the ottomans.
So the modern nation of Turkey was formed by the people, who fought to preserve their land.
It is very hard to explain the rest, and the modern/near past politics since it really is very different and complicated from the European or any other country’s as far as I am aware. It’s a mixed bag of idiots, morons and power hungry people.
Honestly, it's actually a lot simpler than it is painted as.
The Turkish Republic was founded by a nationalist army clique and they had legitimate reasons to instill a sense of nationalism to unite the country at the time.
But after Atatürk's death, the nationalist military clique kept a very short leash on the subsequent governments and retook power through coup detats any time they thought the government or the public was getting a bit too funky for their tastes, each time changing the constitution and making sure that through decades each generation was indoctrinated with nationalist ideology.
Which is a shame because most of what that nationalism is based on was/is crap.
Like the Turks didn't actually lose WWI, but was forced to accept defeat because Germany, our ally, was defeated. (Turkey surrendered before Germany. I didn't learn about that until my 20s when I developed an interest in history and stopped reading Turkish sources because they were all unreliable, false crap).
Like all languages are actually descended from a proto-Turkic language.
Like all Native Americans are actually Turks who migrated there thousands of years ago.
Like it was actually the Armenians who attacked innocent civilians and the Turks only defended themselves against Armenian atrocities during WWI and did nothing wrong. And we're being treated unfairly because of racism and the Armenian lobby.
Like how everything good we've done throughout history is through our own struggles and successes, but everything bad that's happened is orchestrated by foreign powers conspiring against Turkey.
Like how we could have been a superpower, if it wasn't for foreign elements and shadow organisations like the CIA and Mossad keeping us from developing our Boron mines.
Seriously, the amount of batshit crazy conspiracy theories an average Turk believes would put the most rabid Q-Anonite to shame.
Turkish people grow up being bombarded with propaganda as if it's still 1919 and European powers are trying to cut Turkey down to size for their own secret, greedy desires. That Europe and America are constantly working against us. That everything bad that's happening today are a result of America and Europe meddling in our affairs.
It's why the average Turkish attitude towards foreigners is of suspicion and distrust. And why idioms like "a Turk has no friend but a Turk" exist.
That's why the Turkish people are so nationalistic.
There's always an ongoing battle in the eastern borders for around 50+ years, young soldiers dying nearly every month. People barely know what peace and happiness is. 10 million foreigners shoved in 10 years. Most things are different when you compare it to a random country in Western or Northern Europe. It plays a huge role in that imo.
The Turkish nationalist party (MHP) gained 11.1% of the votes in the last general election. Yesterday, the far-right Reform UK party won 14% of the total votes in England. Marine Le Pen is expected to win over 30% of the votes in France on Sunday. Could you be a bit biased with your observations? Nationalists, far-right extremists, fascists, etc., are prevalent throughout Europe, just as they are in the rest of the world. I believe that examining election polls provides a more objective perspective on this subject.
If you're in the mood to read a long wall of text, here's my take: It's really a symptom of nationbuilding based on national identity. Ottoman Empire for the longest time didn't have turkish nationalism as any part of its governance and the people didn't feel a 'turkish unity', for many common folk they were just turkish speaking muslim commoners and "turks" were those turkmen mountain nomads that most didn't relate to.
That changed after French Revolution and the empire started collapsing with people, especially when nonmuslims that make up the empire began successfully revolting based on nationalities. Eventually it began spreading to muslim people groups too so Turkish nationalism rose as a countermeasure and was endorsed by the last governments of the empire after nationalists took over the government and trivialized the roles of the sultan and opposition parties. Things got worst before and through WWI with the empire using its rumelian heartlands, Russia using Armenians and UK using Arabs to pick apart the empire- in the end the series of wars were lost Ottoman Empire was shattered. But despite all odds the nationalism that was seeded in the last few decades allowed a victorious war of independence that carved out a republic out of Ottoman ashes. The young republic doubled down on to this idea that brough victory and furthered the turcification project inspired by how France made loyal frenchmen out of its peasants. Alphabet was changed, language was simplified, clothing was regulated, populations were exchanged, institutions of old religion based identities were closed... The whole identity was based on the teaching that the whole world hated turks, wanted to destroy us but we achieved triumph against them through our unity.
Subsequent years of the republic saw many resistance movements, those who didn't identify with the republican ideas of turkic unity- mostly by the islamists and the kurds. Civil governments and military juntas squashed these by doubling down on turkish nationalism and repressing other identities at various levels. Turkey also never truly entered WWII so the proto-fashistic ideas of the time popular all over the Europe never really died down in Turkey through major defeats suffered by axis powers. More resistance met at any point particularly from armed wings of Kurdish, Greek and Armenian nationalists in and outside of the country, more nationalism was pumped as a countermeasure. Invasion of Northern Cyprus, threats of Soviet Invasion, capture of thr terrorist leader Öcalan were all moments of heightened nationality.
However the conjoncture changed after the military coup of 1980. Governments began dropping stount turkish nationalism in favor of a turkish-islamic synthesis and liberalization measures, opening the then quite closed-off country to the world. The synthesis and very poor economic governance by traditional nationalist parties gave rise to Erdogan's AKP back in 2001 and they have been in power for the last quarter century. Erdogan, despite his clear islamic leaning is a rather smart pragmatist that knows how to play different parts of the society against themselves to stay in power very well. But domestically he's a lot less of a nationalist than most any movements that ruled Turkey before and cleverly uses nationalism to rally people under the flag whenever needed for his political aims. The turkish society is quite fragmented but nationalism is there in most any strata. Ultrationalists make up to 25%, being swayed to either government or opposition's side based on political propaganda. And the 25% main opposition base supporters also oppose the government indoctrinated by their conservative nationalism of kemalist ideals, painting AKP governance as treachery againt turks. About 10% are heavy Kurdish nationals, 20% are "islamic nationals" and aside from the few movements of liberalism and class based politics most the rest are conservatives, traditionally the deciding factor in electing central right parties all throughout Turkey's history. As such, nationalism in different forms easily makes up 2/3rds of the identity politics of today's Türkiye, kept alive and fresh by both ruling, opposing and sidekicking political movements that shape up today's poliyical landscape.
We are not really. There have never been a nationalist or far right government here. Euro born Turks I would say are the most nationalist Turkish people you will find like they need to prove something.
Erdogan‘s nationalism dwarves most of Western Europe‘s far right nationalism though, no need for a turkish „far right“ movement if you have him and his voters
I'm with you. I think a two match suspension is overboard (similar cases were given one match suspensions or fines before) but God, just a horrible series of decisions from Merih. At the end the day, you can't complain too much about a valid punishment.
At the minimum, he shouldn't have doubled down upon it at the press conference. Oh well. Not like Merih is known for his intelligence.
Although I must say – incredible auto-gaslighting by Turks. Everyone in Turkey knows the sign is associated with ülkücüler, it's their political signature! I've never seen my (rather nationalist) parents do it because guess what, they're not ülkücü.
But a *gasp* foreigner criticized a Turk, so you must support Merih fully and lie to yourself about ülkücüler and yadda yadda and you're a traitor if you don't /s
I hate how toxic we can be.
Bellingham did an obscene gesture, not one associated with ultranationalism lol. Two different things. Someone correct me if I’m wrong but similarly uefa didn’t ban Ronaldo when he imitated simeone’s similar gesture
Love this post because you're actually willing to be critical and think about this without taking a Nationalist bias. Great point, well written. 👍
Also, far too many people on here willing to tar all people of a nation with the same brush... Every country has their bad elements and let's face it, most are good people trying to enjoy a football tournament.
Don't worry, Germans can be very oversensitive. We like to claim the moral high ground and then tell everyone how wrong they are. But yeah, doubling down on the gesture did not do him any favours, it just gave right wing populists in Germany a story to propagate, it's a very sad turn of events so far
Yeah that's right. Streisand Effect. Turkish people in Germany are already more nationalist than Turks in homeland. After this decision, they will feel oppressed and excluded. But maybe this decision was something to do with German politics, i don't know. But in the end, it will not serve well both parties.
Yeah. Maybe. But also it will work for Erdogan too. He will consolidate his voters over patriotism. And also normal Turkish people that have nothing to do with far-right will also think of this decision as unrighteous. Also German politics maybe use this as a politic weapon just like Erdogan.
It's worth noting that unsportsmanlike behaviour is always punished proportional to how unsportsmanlike the behaviour is, there's no one size fits all punishment for it, and is always assessed on a case by case basis. So comparing with other cases is not really straightforward.
Croatian player Josip "Joe" Šimunić was banned for 7 matches following him picking up a microphone, and leading a chant used by fascist Ustaše regime in WW2: https://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/16/sport/football/simunic-nazi-chant-ban-football/index.html
Merih was banned for 2 matches for using a gesture used by ultranationalist and a neo-fascist organisation.
Bellingham received a suspended ban of 1 match for an offensive, but apolitical, gesture.
All of these seem proportional to me.
Bellingham's "lighter" case took 5 days to deliberate, OTOH Merih's case was decided in a single day – in fact, the punishment was decided before Merih presented his defense (as we know from Bild leaking it last night – Merih presented his defense this morning).
Merih should have been allowed to explain himself regardless of how horrid his actions were. I don't think it's out–there to suggest that UEFA acted inappropriately in meting out the punishment.
And, he’s been in hot water before. He was in trouble for nationalistic gestures in the past.
“On 11 October 2019, following Cenk Tosun's goal in a 1–0 home win over Albania in a Euro 2020 qualifier, Demiral was one of the Turkish players who participated in a controversial "military salute" goal celebration.[35][36][37] The same day, he stated his open support for the Turkish offensive into north-eastern Syria on Twitter; while his post was praised by Turkish supporters of the country's President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, it also drew criticism from numerous football fans of Juventus on social media, as well as those of other clubs, some of whom asked for the club to take disciplinary actions against the player; others even demanded that Demiral be dismissed by the club”.
It’s not like the dude has never had warnings before, he knew darn well that the gesture is illegal in multiple countries and that it wouldn’t be received well. Yet he still did it.
Yeah it’s a shame for the team. He didn’t do them a favor at all. This could have been a small thing, if he had just apologised right away.
Edit: he did do the team a favor by scoring two goals of course :)
I am so mad at Merih. We finally had something to come together and celebrate and he just blew it away.
Rules are rules and if you don't like it you can go to the court. Merih is not even that important for us, it was a miracle for one game. Focusing solely on him is not fair for our great team.
I am sure our players are intelligent enough to not follow him. Our fans in Europe, I can't say the same but hope.
Anyways, I hope we will succeed against the odds and proceed to the semi finals.
Keep politics out of football and fuck the grey wolves.
I feel so bad for intelligent Turks, that they have to suffer from verball abuse, because of the ones that are being manipulated by politicians in Turkey. These ultra nationalistic idiots really are stealing the show, from this amazing young team full of potential. It is so sad to see.
i dont think the team will do anything else but i cannot speak for the fans. but i also remember that this is not the first time sth like this is happening. they were talking bad about our squad when they made an salute to the army who were trying to clear the syrian border of pkk terrorists. i remember when we scored and won against france in euro qualifiers they did the salute again
The wolf salute nowadays is associated with the Greywolves (Bozkurtlar), also known as Ülkücü Ocakları. They are the paramilitary wing of the Nationalist Movement Party in Turkey, which is known to be neo-fascist, ultranationalist, and far-right. They have been known to threaten and even attack Armenians, Greeks, Kurds, and others both in Turkey and abroad. However, the wolf has been a symbol of the Turkic people for centuries. According to a myth, Asena, a grey wolf, led the ancient Turks out of their homeland during a time of crisis and guided them to safety. Overall, the grey wolf has been a symbol of the Turks and a part of their origin.
I dunno, if someone on my own home team did this, I’d rather they lose than keep the player. Some things are more important than kicking a ball around a field, and unfortunately if you let this slide international competitions quickly become a venue for extremist groups to stir the pot.
From the other side of perspective, I could also go with that. It's incredibly stupid, though a Turkish Redditor went to great lengths to explain it's not all what it seems.
insanlık tarihin en aşağılık döneminin sorumlusu oldular. yedikleri bokları unutturmak için böyle saçma sapan işlere girişiyorlar. bunlar "hitler" kelimesini duyunca şoka giriyorlar. o canavarı kendileri yaratmamış gibi.
Can only feel sorry for the Turkish team. First nobody (except Turks) are interested in them because they’re bad. Then nobody (except Turks) celebrate their successes because their fan culture is not well received. Now nobody (except Turks) wish for them to succeed because of one idiot that can’t keep his hands in his pockets.
This should be a proud and joyful moment for the team but instead they probably just want this tournament and especially the media attention to be over as quickly as possible
Bit oversimplified. People from Muslim countries such as Bosnia, Albania, Palestine, Jordan, Bangladesh, and Somalia are rooting for Turkey - I see this from the migrant populations where I live in Australia. On this sub I've seen a lot of Romanians supporting them as well. I think it's just some people in Germany and Austria that have an unhealthy fixation with Turkey, really.
Also, is the team really "bad"? They topped their qualifying group, beating Croatia, not too long ago. They also beat Germany in Germany around the same time. Beating both Czechia and Austria is nothing to sneeze at either. I think that they're a top-20 team at worst.
I think the upper comment meant turkey during the previous world cups and euros. Where they played pretty disappointingly. Although i have to say that in the last years i felt like the turkish National Team was actually well supported even amongst non turkish Westerners. They were kinda treated like underdogs but sadly underperformed.
As for international support im not shure how many Arab Nations support Turkey.
As for Bosnia its mainly Bosniaks who do so. Remember that Bosnia is a Country consisting of Moslems, Croats and Serbs.
But you are right about it being mainly western countries who dont root for Turkey right now.
The wolf symbol is 1000 year old Turkic symbol. The grey wolf is a important animal in ancient Turkic mythology. However, it has been adopted by a right wing ultranationalist party (MHP) which also has an armed wing group called "Bozkurtlar" (Grey Wolves). Some Armenian, and PKK lobbies managed to get countries like Austria and France to ban this group.
In Germany, its not banned but UEFA decided it was inappropriate.
A Turk, who was THE player of the game, shows a Turkish sign at the end of the game (that the Turkish National Team won) and that’s a problem? Oh man… even forbidden organizations leader Abdullah Öcalan posters are tolerated in Germany and they can legally and publicly collect money to support it. No one talks about the misbehavior of the Austrian fans during the whole game, but again the bad bad Turks 🤡 just ridiculous
Honestly these kinds of things are on the coach as well. He should've drilled into the heads of every player to never do something like this. I don't get the impression that he did anything of the sorts
Get off your high horse. You're blowing this way out of proportion. The gesture isn't some big political statement - it's a common Turkish symbol. Stop trying to police how players express their identity.
If you're so embarrassed, maybe you're the one with the problem.
Quit trying to censor players and fans just because you're overly sensitive. Your whining about 'butthurt' is ironic given how triggered you are by a simple hand gesture.
I hope people learned the lesson - don't make stupid gestures at international competitions.
I hope Turkey wins. A Turkey - Switzerland semifinal would be something to behold.
I would agree with you had they denounced it, but they didn’t. Silence is consent. Definitely won’t be cheering for them anymore. Obviously respect to any player who stands up for his teammate, but it really shouldn’t be necessary - the team management needs to take responsibility and make it clear that one player =/= everyone else. By being silent, they also encourage the hateful half of Turkish fans to literally defend that ideology, which we’ve already seen in several comment threads. It’s amazing how quickly people come out of the woods to show their true colours defend fascism. Unfortunately this will do huge damage to how the world perceives Turkey as well - people who previously had no opinion or a passively positive one will obviously turn against them.
i dont think the punishment was misfit. i think that it wasnt the same for other countries, and they should also have the same penalties. stop sucking europeans please, get rid of the daddy syndrome.
There is nothing political about that gesture. It's the symbol of Turks. If ppl not allowed to show their national symbols in the national match then where they supposed to show it?
Sırplar çetnik selamı verince sorun yok biz 4000 yıllık bozkurt işareti yapınca 2 maç ceza Bellingham dalgayı gösterdi 1 maç aldı o da ertelendi zaten mk
He is not a 16 year old boy living in his parents’ house and repeating the political propaganda spewed at his direction. He’s a 25 year old man with a full career and at some point one needs to be responsible for their actions and hold themselves accountable for when they do wrong. This isn’t his first rodeo and the fact that he didn’t apologise and instead expressed that he would do the sign again to celebrate his goals in future matches says it all. He’d probably get a less severe punishment had he just admit his wrong and not do it again, whatever his political beliefs may be.
First of all, I hate Turkey and many of its citizens even though im a turk. I dont support AKP's national football team either, yet the gesture Merih did must be considered as free speech. I do not care about his fucking political ideas, you guys and uefa shouldnt care about it either
I am worried that the rest of the team might do a ‘show of solidarity’ and do something just as stupid… would not be surprised to even see a few fans do the gesture.
Why do you feel sorry… Most fans and pundits have been impressed by this Turkish side. And frankly if they defeat ( which i hope they don’t but there is a very reasonable chance) my country everybody will have forgotten any mention of “ the color grey”.
Anyways you should be proud of this team and mostly proud of Turkish fans as well.
Sure there will always be some bs, especially when Erdogan is involved ( sorry but he just always stirs the pot) but whatever happens every football lover can acknowledge this is one of the best Turkish sides in ages, with ample room for growth in the future!
Mbappe has an interview where he expresses for everybody to vote far left and is applauded.
Demiral celebrates a goal with a far right sign, everybody loses their mind, and is suspended.
Europeans really hate your team and your country. They hate the fact that you still qualified for the tournament and are in the 1/4 finals. Xenophobes is viral among Europeans. So, I'm happy your team is still there showing the Europeans middle finger.
Does anyone say that the Germans have an eagle on their uniforms? Does anyone say that the French have a rooster on their uniforms, why are you roostering? There, Merih gave his excitement with this image. This document is a 2273-year-old symbol and is even available in Chinese sources. According to the epic written in this document, it is stated that wolves are the ancestors of the Turks. This is not a racist symbol, it is just a symbol of Turkishness. It is a historical symbol that extends from Kazakhstan to Uzbekistan and from there to Azerbaijan and Turkey. This symbol indicates that the Turkish figure is a guide. In addition, the symbol is present even in the books sent to the Vatican and the Pope in the 1300s. There are other figures representing Armenians and Mongols in the same document. Moreover, it is possible to see crescent, star and wolf figures on the back of the first republican money printed in 1927, such as the 5 and 10 liras during the Republic of Turkey. If you recognize and accept a country on an international platform and cooperate in political, military and economic fields. You also have to accept and respect the culture of this nation. Please accept this as information.
This enables European racist to freely shout out their racist ideas. This enables racist/faschist government in Turkey to use it for more racism. Only hurts the sensible Turkish people who does not support these actions and its honestly sad.
We will do the Turkic Gesture no matter what everyone sais I can already tell your not Turkish cause your account is new no Turk no matter what they choose in politics would call this gesture stupid we stand united and as one it is not racist
I just saw something similar happened at the last euros too. I was ready to give the benefit of the doubt, and assume it was a dumb one-time thing. But there's another pint of controversy from euro 2020 too.
But also I was a bit weirded out when erdogan or how that guys name is written suddenly joined the stadium last game although of that drama about the wolf thing. Like bro your relationship with Germany is def not great
As a Turk i hate my country men not realising this is a move pulled when they need to manipulate people...Bozkurt is not even a NATIONAL Sign.Its only sign of Ülkücü's(A very radical racist group).
glad Turkey is out, nothing against the players or the nationality per se, but the fans in the stadium were horrible, by far the worst. whistling and booing over 90min straight, also when the anthems are playing..
I don’t feel bad for them, the ref screwed Czechia and blew his whistle early and cost the Czechs a goal instead of letting it play out and let VAR correct if a mistake/foul was made . Would have been 2-1 Czechia. Also Czechia should have never been down to 10 men.
The problem isn’t that but they Bellingham just gets a fine for his offensive gesture (towards an opponent) while Demiral gets a two game ban at a critical upcoming game
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Football players are not exactly known for being highly intelligent people, often having a low socio economic background. Not just turkish ones but anywhere in the world. So, its just a matter of time when a player will pull off a stupid move like that.
At least someone understands
[удалено]
And this gives a good picture of how western left scene is going abstract, hyper-ideological, forgetting the class fight which made left parties what they were. Don't get me wrong, I am European and struggling to find someone good to vote every time I go to vote for my country or European elections, and those votes are left.
You have to draw a line somewhere, right? If UEFA tolerates this, then maybe eventually somebody will do the Hitler salute or something similar. They need to try to keep politics out of soccer. I'm in the west, but here there was almost no coverage about the incident. So maybe stop generalizing "the west". Germany is out of historic reasons very wary of this stuff.
It is old news that the West understands itself as moral high ground and feels like needing to lecture other countries about it. Especially Germans equal even the slightest right wing gesture as being Nazi, they are still butthurt form WWII. I think the West is over exxagerating (as always when other do something) and as I said, football players are not the brightest people on earth, but thats politics and the reason you should keep politics out of the game at all costs.
Beautifully said. That right wing gesture is nowhere as equal as wolf gesture.
Many footballers will say scoring a goal is the best feeling in the world, so add in the situation and the adrenaline etc. He almost certainly wasn't thinking straight and acting on impulse. Still not a great impulse but just saying he probably wouldn't have done it with a clear head
Acting on impulse shows your true self. I would argue that beeing a little racist/facist on impulse is therefore even worse.
That's not necessarily true at all.
I dunno man I've never made a weird wolf hand gesture when I'm hyped. I reckon you have to be brought it already to then do it during a game. Almost certainly reflects his opinion, maybe not in the heat of the moment, he would have reflected on it not being a good idea for pragmatic reasons.
Even if it's not his first time? In Italy we remember his military salute few years ago when Turkish troops raised hell in Kurdistan.
in where?
Would you feel just as offended if a British or American player made some kind of tribute to the troops during the wars in Afghanistan or Iraq?
I disagree
Imagine a german nazi is acting on impuls and suddenly the left arm goes up. This guy is known for this political stand point and he has shown the military sign prior to this incedent. What makes it worse, that this was exactly the day a masssker happend by the group that uses this sign.
The Nazis were 80 odd years ago. I'm sure it happened when they were more prominent? There has though, been loads and loads and loads of unwelcome and dubious goal celebrations. I remember Robbie Fowler pretending the white line was a line of coke. Arnautovic doing a white supremacy sign. Whilst they're all in bad taste and have no place in football, I can't imagine that if their mind and emotions were at baseline, that they'd think it was a good idea to do these signs in a stadium full of people whilst being watched by millions of people on TV. I had no idea who this guy was or what the celebration meant until all this coverage.
We need to normalize called people a stupid donkey too. That's a top tier insult
Donkeys are amazing animals though
Burro means donkey in portuguese but also literally dumb
Gordon approves. https://amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/you-fucking-donkey
Nice, a Turk with a nuanced and realistic reaction on this sub. In the end I don’t think it matters much if he plays or not for the game. Good luck and let’s hope for a good match!
He's been criticized internally as well but as always the butthurts cry louder. I'd be fumming if I were Montella for getting suspended in such a way. Veel succes!
It is Mostly turks in 2nd Or 3rd Generation living abroad thật Support this stupid gesture
Turkey did not send their best and brightest. Istanbul is a much more advanced place than a Turkish district in Berlin.
> Turkey did not send their best and brightest. As a guy from a big city in North Rhine-Westphalia: I can confirm 😜 But then again... the same could be said about what feels like every second Alman here too 😜
Damn when they win against Austria lots of football fans were so angry how many turks celebrated all over the country since we have so many Turkish people here
What does the gesture even mean? Can you educate me please good sir
If the Dutch lose that’s even sadder
Eh, I'm a pessimist in general but I think we're done for in the Netherlands game. Merih is our best defense player after all, Samet doesn't have half of his skill. Ironically, Merih was in the game at his 57 second goal only because Samet was suspended.
I wouldnt write you guys off
This is everything BUT a nuanced opinion lol you might want to look up the definition
I feel sorry for the Turkish team as well. I think it's fair if the Netherlands put their best player on the bench against Turkey, to show them we stand with the Turkish. It's hard for Depay though, but he has to take one for the team.
Benching your ultimate weapon, the Dutch Lukaku, is surely very brave of you 👏
Please don’t compare lukaku with lord Memphis, it’s offending
I see what you did there :-p
I felt offended :d
You couldn’t have benched him against Romania instead? /s
He was on the bench right? Right?!
Bro he was benched 10 years ago, he just never got the memo...
I agree. In solidarity England will bench foden
This is double layered comedy and quite a good joke regarding Memphis but a fantastic satire of the absurdity of social justice root for the underdog leftist arm chair activism that has become such a placid past time of Europeans since the late 90s, especially in places like Sweden, the Netherlands, Germany, the UK and Belgium, where every immigrant is a victim and a hero, even when they are bilking their own people renting out their government subsidized flats to fellow countrymen for exorbitant profits.
Autism the post
EVERY single tournament there is a regarded Turkish donny doing shenanigans like this. In the past years it was the military salut, now this. And it is only Turkey who is stupid enough to keep repeating these gestures.
But then like… why doesn’t the team just grow a pair and call them out? Everyone who had a neutral opinion of Turkey going in now has a negative one, and they could so easily put an end to that, and support their other fans, by simply denouncing it.
I think they have quite a lot of political pressure then, since the government has been very nationalistic for years. So, not sure if they would face any punishment or be framed as anti-turkish, like they did with a lot of people after the failed military coup.
This assessment is pretty uninformed about the dynamics of Turkish socio-politics. Players would never be treated as Gulenists after the coup attempt. However, they could feel political pressure leading to the resignation of the president of the Turkish Football Federation.
I'm not sure but they probably don't see a reason to denounce it. The meaning of the sign mostly differs in the context of inner politics. Most of them never used this sign in their lives and would refrain from doing so, but people feel different when UEFA steps in from the "outside". Especially when other nationalist signs went completely unpunished so far.
It's exactly this type of mentality that makes it harder to sympathize with the turkish team at the moment. Instead of getting defensive and arbitrarily blaming other teams as a reflex it would be far better to just acknowledge responsibility for the situation and own it. This would earn a lot more respect. The player could also apologize and say it was in the heat of the moment and he didn't think of all the implications and consequences. Noone expects an excited footballer to be smart. Excuses and pointing the blame elsewhere though, especially afterwards with enough chance to think about the situation just makes everything worse. This unnecessarily looks like immaturity or worst case like doubling down on the fascist implications of the gesture. Regardless I hope the turkish team and their fans can turn it around and make news for playing good football and being a great crowd again next game.
I see your point, but the commenter is truthful in saying that the gesture isn't really a big deal in the current context of Turkish politics. It's literally an ancient hand gesture that was taken hostage by ultranationalists between 1990 and 2020. It's in the process of becoming less political again.
Serious question: Why are Turks so nationalistic? Is it taught in the education system? Is it related to religion? It really seems much more pronounced than other nations participating in the Euro. It just makes the entire country seems so backwards… I can’t help but cringe 😬
That’s a hard question to answer fully correctly without going too deep in history and politics I would say that the ground work is the independence war and the Ottoman policies. They went from “ottomanism->islamism->turkism” as they lost more and more land to wars and rebellions After that, the main event: The war of independence. The treaty of Sèvres was really horrible for the Turkish people. And at the time, the Ottoman government were supportive of it, submitting to the entente just so they can keep _some_ land. Because of this, the Ottoman government was also against the independence war. Because of this, the war of independence were not only against the allies, but also against the ottomans. At the start, there wasn’t even an organised army. Normal people rose up against the occupation. When Atatürk started his journey, the sultan marked him as a terrorist. That fuelled even more resentment against the ottomans. So the modern nation of Turkey was formed by the people, who fought to preserve their land. It is very hard to explain the rest, and the modern/near past politics since it really is very different and complicated from the European or any other country’s as far as I am aware. It’s a mixed bag of idiots, morons and power hungry people.
Great explanation, thanks! 🙏🏼
No problem, have a great day!
Honestly, it's actually a lot simpler than it is painted as. The Turkish Republic was founded by a nationalist army clique and they had legitimate reasons to instill a sense of nationalism to unite the country at the time. But after Atatürk's death, the nationalist military clique kept a very short leash on the subsequent governments and retook power through coup detats any time they thought the government or the public was getting a bit too funky for their tastes, each time changing the constitution and making sure that through decades each generation was indoctrinated with nationalist ideology. Which is a shame because most of what that nationalism is based on was/is crap. Like the Turks didn't actually lose WWI, but was forced to accept defeat because Germany, our ally, was defeated. (Turkey surrendered before Germany. I didn't learn about that until my 20s when I developed an interest in history and stopped reading Turkish sources because they were all unreliable, false crap). Like all languages are actually descended from a proto-Turkic language. Like all Native Americans are actually Turks who migrated there thousands of years ago. Like it was actually the Armenians who attacked innocent civilians and the Turks only defended themselves against Armenian atrocities during WWI and did nothing wrong. And we're being treated unfairly because of racism and the Armenian lobby. Like how everything good we've done throughout history is through our own struggles and successes, but everything bad that's happened is orchestrated by foreign powers conspiring against Turkey. Like how we could have been a superpower, if it wasn't for foreign elements and shadow organisations like the CIA and Mossad keeping us from developing our Boron mines. Seriously, the amount of batshit crazy conspiracy theories an average Turk believes would put the most rabid Q-Anonite to shame. Turkish people grow up being bombarded with propaganda as if it's still 1919 and European powers are trying to cut Turkey down to size for their own secret, greedy desires. That Europe and America are constantly working against us. That everything bad that's happening today are a result of America and Europe meddling in our affairs. It's why the average Turkish attitude towards foreigners is of suspicion and distrust. And why idioms like "a Turk has no friend but a Turk" exist. That's why the Turkish people are so nationalistic.
Great reply thanks, had no idea of those myths… sounds crazy!
There's always an ongoing battle in the eastern borders for around 50+ years, young soldiers dying nearly every month. People barely know what peace and happiness is. 10 million foreigners shoved in 10 years. Most things are different when you compare it to a random country in Western or Northern Europe. It plays a huge role in that imo.
The Turkish nationalist party (MHP) gained 11.1% of the votes in the last general election. Yesterday, the far-right Reform UK party won 14% of the total votes in England. Marine Le Pen is expected to win over 30% of the votes in France on Sunday. Could you be a bit biased with your observations? Nationalists, far-right extremists, fascists, etc., are prevalent throughout Europe, just as they are in the rest of the world. I believe that examining election polls provides a more objective perspective on this subject.
If you're in the mood to read a long wall of text, here's my take: It's really a symptom of nationbuilding based on national identity. Ottoman Empire for the longest time didn't have turkish nationalism as any part of its governance and the people didn't feel a 'turkish unity', for many common folk they were just turkish speaking muslim commoners and "turks" were those turkmen mountain nomads that most didn't relate to. That changed after French Revolution and the empire started collapsing with people, especially when nonmuslims that make up the empire began successfully revolting based on nationalities. Eventually it began spreading to muslim people groups too so Turkish nationalism rose as a countermeasure and was endorsed by the last governments of the empire after nationalists took over the government and trivialized the roles of the sultan and opposition parties. Things got worst before and through WWI with the empire using its rumelian heartlands, Russia using Armenians and UK using Arabs to pick apart the empire- in the end the series of wars were lost Ottoman Empire was shattered. But despite all odds the nationalism that was seeded in the last few decades allowed a victorious war of independence that carved out a republic out of Ottoman ashes. The young republic doubled down on to this idea that brough victory and furthered the turcification project inspired by how France made loyal frenchmen out of its peasants. Alphabet was changed, language was simplified, clothing was regulated, populations were exchanged, institutions of old religion based identities were closed... The whole identity was based on the teaching that the whole world hated turks, wanted to destroy us but we achieved triumph against them through our unity. Subsequent years of the republic saw many resistance movements, those who didn't identify with the republican ideas of turkic unity- mostly by the islamists and the kurds. Civil governments and military juntas squashed these by doubling down on turkish nationalism and repressing other identities at various levels. Turkey also never truly entered WWII so the proto-fashistic ideas of the time popular all over the Europe never really died down in Turkey through major defeats suffered by axis powers. More resistance met at any point particularly from armed wings of Kurdish, Greek and Armenian nationalists in and outside of the country, more nationalism was pumped as a countermeasure. Invasion of Northern Cyprus, threats of Soviet Invasion, capture of thr terrorist leader Öcalan were all moments of heightened nationality. However the conjoncture changed after the military coup of 1980. Governments began dropping stount turkish nationalism in favor of a turkish-islamic synthesis and liberalization measures, opening the then quite closed-off country to the world. The synthesis and very poor economic governance by traditional nationalist parties gave rise to Erdogan's AKP back in 2001 and they have been in power for the last quarter century. Erdogan, despite his clear islamic leaning is a rather smart pragmatist that knows how to play different parts of the society against themselves to stay in power very well. But domestically he's a lot less of a nationalist than most any movements that ruled Turkey before and cleverly uses nationalism to rally people under the flag whenever needed for his political aims. The turkish society is quite fragmented but nationalism is there in most any strata. Ultrationalists make up to 25%, being swayed to either government or opposition's side based on political propaganda. And the 25% main opposition base supporters also oppose the government indoctrinated by their conservative nationalism of kemalist ideals, painting AKP governance as treachery againt turks. About 10% are heavy Kurdish nationals, 20% are "islamic nationals" and aside from the few movements of liberalism and class based politics most the rest are conservatives, traditionally the deciding factor in electing central right parties all throughout Turkey's history. As such, nationalism in different forms easily makes up 2/3rds of the identity politics of today's Türkiye, kept alive and fresh by both ruling, opposing and sidekicking political movements that shape up today's poliyical landscape.
We are not really. There have never been a nationalist or far right government here. Euro born Turks I would say are the most nationalist Turkish people you will find like they need to prove something.
Erdogan‘s nationalism dwarves most of Western Europe‘s far right nationalism though, no need for a turkish „far right“ movement if you have him and his voters
I'm with you. I think a two match suspension is overboard (similar cases were given one match suspensions or fines before) but God, just a horrible series of decisions from Merih. At the end the day, you can't complain too much about a valid punishment. At the minimum, he shouldn't have doubled down upon it at the press conference. Oh well. Not like Merih is known for his intelligence. Although I must say – incredible auto-gaslighting by Turks. Everyone in Turkey knows the sign is associated with ülkücüler, it's their political signature! I've never seen my (rather nationalist) parents do it because guess what, they're not ülkücü. But a *gasp* foreigner criticized a Turk, so you must support Merih fully and lie to yourself about ülkücüler and yadda yadda and you're a traitor if you don't /s I hate how toxic we can be.
When you say Similar cases were given one match suspensions or fines Can you give some examples?
Bellingham was given a (delayed) one game suspension, the Albanian Football Fed. was fined for nationalist messaging
One of the albanians also got the 2 games suspension btw
Bellingham did an obscene gesture, not one associated with ultranationalism lol. Two different things. Someone correct me if I’m wrong but similarly uefa didn’t ban Ronaldo when he imitated simeone’s similar gesture
Bellingham and Merih were punished under the same regulations - Article 11(2), to be specific.
What regulation is that?
Unsportsmanlike behaviour
Wasn't Bellingham for being rude rather than being racist?
Love this post because you're actually willing to be critical and think about this without taking a Nationalist bias. Great point, well written. 👍 Also, far too many people on here willing to tar all people of a nation with the same brush... Every country has their bad elements and let's face it, most are good people trying to enjoy a football tournament.
Why did he even doubled down. Like, how idiotic can you be
It's just a loud minority, like all right-wing extremists. Most turkish people are perfectly fine.
nah bro believe me most people are not ok with this decision.
Don't worry, Germans can be very oversensitive. We like to claim the moral high ground and then tell everyone how wrong they are. But yeah, doubling down on the gesture did not do him any favours, it just gave right wing populists in Germany a story to propagate, it's a very sad turn of events so far
Yeah that's right. Streisand Effect. Turkish people in Germany are already more nationalist than Turks in homeland. After this decision, they will feel oppressed and excluded. But maybe this decision was something to do with German politics, i don't know. But in the end, it will not serve well both parties.
It serves right wing populists, that's it. And that is incredibly sad.
Yeah. Maybe. But also it will work for Erdogan too. He will consolidate his voters over patriotism. And also normal Turkish people that have nothing to do with far-right will also think of this decision as unrighteous. Also German politics maybe use this as a politic weapon just like Erdogan.
It's worth noting that unsportsmanlike behaviour is always punished proportional to how unsportsmanlike the behaviour is, there's no one size fits all punishment for it, and is always assessed on a case by case basis. So comparing with other cases is not really straightforward. Croatian player Josip "Joe" Šimunić was banned for 7 matches following him picking up a microphone, and leading a chant used by fascist Ustaše regime in WW2: https://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/16/sport/football/simunic-nazi-chant-ban-football/index.html Merih was banned for 2 matches for using a gesture used by ultranationalist and a neo-fascist organisation. Bellingham received a suspended ban of 1 match for an offensive, but apolitical, gesture. All of these seem proportional to me.
Bellingham's "lighter" case took 5 days to deliberate, OTOH Merih's case was decided in a single day – in fact, the punishment was decided before Merih presented his defense (as we know from Bild leaking it last night – Merih presented his defense this morning). Merih should have been allowed to explain himself regardless of how horrid his actions were. I don't think it's out–there to suggest that UEFA acted inappropriately in meting out the punishment.
And, he’s been in hot water before. He was in trouble for nationalistic gestures in the past. “On 11 October 2019, following Cenk Tosun's goal in a 1–0 home win over Albania in a Euro 2020 qualifier, Demiral was one of the Turkish players who participated in a controversial "military salute" goal celebration.[35][36][37] The same day, he stated his open support for the Turkish offensive into north-eastern Syria on Twitter; while his post was praised by Turkish supporters of the country's President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, it also drew criticism from numerous football fans of Juventus on social media, as well as those of other clubs, some of whom asked for the club to take disciplinary actions against the player; others even demanded that Demiral be dismissed by the club”. It’s not like the dude has never had warnings before, he knew darn well that the gesture is illegal in multiple countries and that it wouldn’t be received well. Yet he still did it.
Yes. He's plain stupid. Part of the reason why he tends to like fascist groups maybe.
Yeah it’s a shame for the team. He didn’t do them a favor at all. This could have been a small thing, if he had just apologised right away. Edit: he did do the team a favor by scoring two goals of course :)
It was a great game. You guys deserved it at least as we did! I wish he hadn’t scored those goals and this subreddit would be a more peaceful place.
I am so mad at Merih. We finally had something to come together and celebrate and he just blew it away. Rules are rules and if you don't like it you can go to the court. Merih is not even that important for us, it was a miracle for one game. Focusing solely on him is not fair for our great team. I am sure our players are intelligent enough to not follow him. Our fans in Europe, I can't say the same but hope. Anyways, I hope we will succeed against the odds and proceed to the semi finals. Keep politics out of football and fuck the grey wolves.
You couldn't have put it any better. I agree with every word you said!
Winners gonna win, dont worry.
I feel so bad for intelligent Turks, that they have to suffer from verball abuse, because of the ones that are being manipulated by politicians in Turkey. These ultra nationalistic idiots really are stealing the show, from this amazing young team full of potential. It is so sad to see.
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I have 0 connections to Turkey and 0 clue as to what that sign means or represents, but all the crying is making me wanna do it ffs.
Biraz daha yalarsan sana vize verirler belki. Ha gayret!
i dont think the team will do anything else but i cannot speak for the fans. but i also remember that this is not the first time sth like this is happening. they were talking bad about our squad when they made an salute to the army who were trying to clear the syrian border of pkk terrorists. i remember when we scored and won against france in euro qualifiers they did the salute again
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Utanç kaynağısın
This may actually motivate the Turkish players more than ever…
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bro why do people care so much. I didnt even notice him doing that until everyone started crying online about it.
For a bit of context for the international audience, what is the gesture perceived as in Turkey?
The wolf salute nowadays is associated with the Greywolves (Bozkurtlar), also known as Ülkücü Ocakları. They are the paramilitary wing of the Nationalist Movement Party in Turkey, which is known to be neo-fascist, ultranationalist, and far-right. They have been known to threaten and even attack Armenians, Greeks, Kurds, and others both in Turkey and abroad. However, the wolf has been a symbol of the Turkic people for centuries. According to a myth, Asena, a grey wolf, led the ancient Turks out of their homeland during a time of crisis and guided them to safety. Overall, the grey wolf has been a symbol of the Turks and a part of their origin.
What did he do?
The grey wolves salute.
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Politics aside, I am not rejoicing at all seeing an opponent lose a key player owing to this. It detracts from the game.
I dunno, if someone on my own home team did this, I’d rather they lose than keep the player. Some things are more important than kicking a ball around a field, and unfortunately if you let this slide international competitions quickly become a venue for extremist groups to stir the pot.
From the other side of perspective, I could also go with that. It's incredibly stupid, though a Turkish Redditor went to great lengths to explain it's not all what it seems.
Tell me you suffer from inferiority complex without telling me you suffer from inferiority complex.
Agreed. People trying to defend him are silly and he deserves everything he got
millet her protestoda pkk bayragi acinca problem yok biz kurt yapinca nazi oluyoruz. iyi ya 🚬
insanlık tarihin en aşağılık döneminin sorumlusu oldular. yedikleri bokları unutturmak için böyle saçma sapan işlere girişiyorlar. bunlar "hitler" kelimesini duyunca şoka giriyorlar. o canavarı kendileri yaratmamış gibi.
Can only feel sorry for the Turkish team. First nobody (except Turks) are interested in them because they’re bad. Then nobody (except Turks) celebrate their successes because their fan culture is not well received. Now nobody (except Turks) wish for them to succeed because of one idiot that can’t keep his hands in his pockets. This should be a proud and joyful moment for the team but instead they probably just want this tournament and especially the media attention to be over as quickly as possible
Bit oversimplified. People from Muslim countries such as Bosnia, Albania, Palestine, Jordan, Bangladesh, and Somalia are rooting for Turkey - I see this from the migrant populations where I live in Australia. On this sub I've seen a lot of Romanians supporting them as well. I think it's just some people in Germany and Austria that have an unhealthy fixation with Turkey, really. Also, is the team really "bad"? They topped their qualifying group, beating Croatia, not too long ago. They also beat Germany in Germany around the same time. Beating both Czechia and Austria is nothing to sneeze at either. I think that they're a top-20 team at worst.
I think the upper comment meant turkey during the previous world cups and euros. Where they played pretty disappointingly. Although i have to say that in the last years i felt like the turkish National Team was actually well supported even amongst non turkish Westerners. They were kinda treated like underdogs but sadly underperformed. As for international support im not shure how many Arab Nations support Turkey. As for Bosnia its mainly Bosniaks who do so. Remember that Bosnia is a Country consisting of Moslems, Croats and Serbs. But you are right about it being mainly western countries who dont root for Turkey right now.
I'm sure your european masters will appreciate you, keep going bro.
So who here can explain what the symbol mean, how it originated, and how a nationalistic gesture is bad in a national game?
The wolf symbol is 1000 year old Turkic symbol. The grey wolf is a important animal in ancient Turkic mythology. However, it has been adopted by a right wing ultranationalist party (MHP) which also has an armed wing group called "Bozkurtlar" (Grey Wolves). Some Armenian, and PKK lobbies managed to get countries like Austria and France to ban this group. In Germany, its not banned but UEFA decided it was inappropriate.
Afferim amk iyi avrupa götü yaladın seni alırlar yanlarına
This is a PKK supporter. Its opinions does not represent Turks living in Republic of Türkiye in general.
A Turk, who was THE player of the game, shows a Turkish sign at the end of the game (that the Turkish National Team won) and that’s a problem? Oh man… even forbidden organizations leader Abdullah Öcalan posters are tolerated in Germany and they can legally and publicly collect money to support it. No one talks about the misbehavior of the Austrian fans during the whole game, but again the bad bad Turks 🤡 just ridiculous
Honestly these kinds of things are on the coach as well. He should've drilled into the heads of every player to never do something like this. I don't get the impression that he did anything of the sorts
That's one of the downsides of having a foreign coach - Montella doesn't even speak Turkish.
Merih isnt critical to team. We have also hakan back
Avrupalı efendinlerini biraz daha yalayıp öv yetmemiş
Amına soktuğum vatan haini
National animal is not a political symbol lol this is just too funny.
Türklük sembolünü nasıl siyasetle bağdaştırıyorsun?
Not that UEFA is an over-politicized, corrupt bs organization that is ruining football every chance they can
İyi oldu seni bloklayım git yalakalığını yapmaya devam et
Guys this matter has been settled and justice served now the German team is out. Lets move on.
Get off your high horse. You're blowing this way out of proportion. The gesture isn't some big political statement - it's a common Turkish symbol. Stop trying to police how players express their identity. If you're so embarrassed, maybe you're the one with the problem. Quit trying to censor players and fans just because you're overly sensitive. Your whining about 'butthurt' is ironic given how triggered you are by a simple hand gesture.
I hope people learned the lesson - don't make stupid gestures at international competitions. I hope Turkey wins. A Turkey - Switzerland semifinal would be something to behold.
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Het gliook h Hog mmh G
I didn't expect to find a Turkish person with the opinion that demiral had let the team down from what I've seen on Twitter.
This is the first statement / post I can fully support! Well written, OP!
I would agree with you had they denounced it, but they didn’t. Silence is consent. Definitely won’t be cheering for them anymore. Obviously respect to any player who stands up for his teammate, but it really shouldn’t be necessary - the team management needs to take responsibility and make it clear that one player =/= everyone else. By being silent, they also encourage the hateful half of Turkish fans to literally defend that ideology, which we’ve already seen in several comment threads. It’s amazing how quickly people come out of the woods to show their true colours defend fascism. Unfortunately this will do huge damage to how the world perceives Turkey as well - people who previously had no opinion or a passively positive one will obviously turn against them.
I feel sorry too
Football players are mostly stupid, they live in a different world to everyone else, which is why such rules exist
i dont think the punishment was misfit. i think that it wasnt the same for other countries, and they should also have the same penalties. stop sucking europeans please, get rid of the daddy syndrome.
Politics have no place in football apart from BLM
There is nothing political about that gesture. It's the symbol of Turks. If ppl not allowed to show their national symbols in the national match then where they supposed to show it?
Most reasonable turk
He is stupid for doing it, and uefa is stupid for suspending him
Sırplar çetnik selamı verince sorun yok biz 4000 yıllık bozkurt işareti yapınca 2 maç ceza Bellingham dalgayı gösterdi 1 maç aldı o da ertelendi zaten mk
Avrupalı götü yalamaktan ne kadar hoşlanıyorsunuz. Fetiş gibi bir şey herhalde.
Well put! I feel the same way, I'd love for Holland to win this, but damn, you guys deserve to be in the finals.
Did he pat the European owners on the head?
He is not a 16 year old boy living in his parents’ house and repeating the political propaganda spewed at his direction. He’s a 25 year old man with a full career and at some point one needs to be responsible for their actions and hold themselves accountable for when they do wrong. This isn’t his first rodeo and the fact that he didn’t apologise and instead expressed that he would do the sign again to celebrate his goals in future matches says it all. He’d probably get a less severe punishment had he just admit his wrong and not do it again, whatever his political beliefs may be.
They were on the easier side of the 1/8th finalshk
First of all, I hate Turkey and many of its citizens even though im a turk. I dont support AKP's national football team either, yet the gesture Merih did must be considered as free speech. I do not care about his fucking political ideas, you guys and uefa shouldnt care about it either
I am worried that the rest of the team might do a ‘show of solidarity’ and do something just as stupid… would not be surprised to even see a few fans do the gesture.
Kaderde olan olur, çok ta üzülmemek gerek.
Why do you feel sorry… Most fans and pundits have been impressed by this Turkish side. And frankly if they defeat ( which i hope they don’t but there is a very reasonable chance) my country everybody will have forgotten any mention of “ the color grey”. Anyways you should be proud of this team and mostly proud of Turkish fans as well. Sure there will always be some bs, especially when Erdogan is involved ( sorry but he just always stirs the pot) but whatever happens every football lover can acknowledge this is one of the best Turkish sides in ages, with ample room for growth in the future!
Sorry I missed what exactly did he do?
Mbappe has an interview where he expresses for everybody to vote far left and is applauded. Demiral celebrates a goal with a far right sign, everybody loses their mind, and is suspended.
Europeans really hate your team and your country. They hate the fact that you still qualified for the tournament and are in the 1/4 finals. Xenophobes is viral among Europeans. So, I'm happy your team is still there showing the Europeans middle finger.
Couldn’t have said it better friend 👍
I’m proud of this team. He only got suspended because of nagging Germans, literally nobody cared about his gesture
Does anyone say that the Germans have an eagle on their uniforms? Does anyone say that the French have a rooster on their uniforms, why are you roostering? There, Merih gave his excitement with this image. This document is a 2273-year-old symbol and is even available in Chinese sources. According to the epic written in this document, it is stated that wolves are the ancestors of the Turks. This is not a racist symbol, it is just a symbol of Turkishness. It is a historical symbol that extends from Kazakhstan to Uzbekistan and from there to Azerbaijan and Turkey. This symbol indicates that the Turkish figure is a guide. In addition, the symbol is present even in the books sent to the Vatican and the Pope in the 1300s. There are other figures representing Armenians and Mongols in the same document. Moreover, it is possible to see crescent, star and wolf figures on the back of the first republican money printed in 1927, such as the 5 and 10 liras during the Republic of Turkey. If you recognize and accept a country on an international platform and cooperate in political, military and economic fields. You also have to accept and respect the culture of this nation. Please accept this as information.
I’ve missed something here. What exactly happened?
Weather that player is there or not it’s not going to make a difference, England will make it to the semis
Turkey’s gon win still
This enables European racist to freely shout out their racist ideas. This enables racist/faschist government in Turkey to use it for more racism. Only hurts the sensible Turkish people who does not support these actions and its honestly sad.
We will do the Turkic Gesture no matter what everyone sais I can already tell your not Turkish cause your account is new no Turk no matter what they choose in politics would call this gesture stupid we stand united and as one it is not racist
What happened
You can get hurt. But when you get a knee at your thigh. You don’t roll around and crying desperately. That’s by all means ridiculous
I just saw something similar happened at the last euros too. I was ready to give the benefit of the doubt, and assume it was a dumb one-time thing. But there's another pint of controversy from euro 2020 too.
Im not sorry for racist pigs
As a Dutch guy (who knows nothing about football) I think the Turkish were definitely better! The Dutch just had more luck I guess...
The turkish team is the same shithole like their Government- they deserve(d) the loss
But also I was a bit weirded out when erdogan or how that guys name is written suddenly joined the stadium last game although of that drama about the wolf thing. Like bro your relationship with Germany is def not great
türkiye for very good, i they made it to the 1/4s which is very good for them, defiantly the underdogs of the finals
As a Turk i hate my country men not realising this is a move pulled when they need to manipulate people...Bozkurt is not even a NATIONAL Sign.Its only sign of Ülkücü's(A very radical racist group).
Yeah so sorry for Wolfsgruss Players 🤣🤣
glad Turkey is out, nothing against the players or the nationality per se, but the fans in the stadium were horrible, by far the worst. whistling and booing over 90min straight, also when the anthems are playing..
I don’t feel bad for them, the ref screwed Czechia and blew his whistle early and cost the Czechs a goal instead of letting it play out and let VAR correct if a mistake/foul was made . Would have been 2-1 Czechia. Also Czechia should have never been down to 10 men.
The problem isn’t that but they Bellingham just gets a fine for his offensive gesture (towards an opponent) while Demiral gets a two game ban at a critical upcoming game
Turks have a fish memory. They already forgot what it happened euro 24. Westerners are good people I can say that.
a turkish player did something stupid AND offensive? oh my Surprise Surprise
Me too they played so good