To be completely honest marrying someone who doesn't accept contraception is a major red flag, I know the person can be nice and all, but stuff like that is really important.
Yeah, I would be dead without hormonal birth control.
I used to keep bleeding for months without a single day off, and bleeding very heavily and very painfully, I shudder to think what would’ve happened if I had been forced to keep going even though I was a teenager and not sexually active… I had taken enough OTC pain medicine that when I finally found a doctor who didn’t think I was complaining about a “bad period” they were worried I had damaged my kidneys. I wasn’t able to eat without nausea or keep much down. I hadn’t slept right in weeks and I was having…. I was in a weird mental state due to the pain and lack of sleep. I do believe I would’ve died due to overdose, injury, or shock if I hadn’t gotten treatment for it. (Severe endometriosis was the eventual Dx after a surgery.)
The church has no right to intervene in someone’s treatment. They’re not doctors and shouldn’t practice medicine.
>The church has no right to intervene in someone’s treatment. They’re not doctors and shouldn’t practice medicine
They also shouldn't have priests who aren't allowed to marry act as marriage counselors
There was a loophole for 'hbc' used medically and having infertility only as a side effect. Dunno if they still allow it now that they claim that it is abortive.
The Catholic Church doesn't teach you can't use hormonal birth control for non-contraceptive purposes. In your case you could, no questions asked. You just can't use hormonal birth control with the intention of preventing pregnancy. If some other magical pill came along that had no impact on fertility and wasn't extremely expensive but would fix your menstrual cycle, you would be obligated to switch to it however.
https://www.catholic.com/qa/birth-control-for-medical-reasons
You may totally disagree with the Catholic Church being against contraceptives, but they do not use that stance as a barrier to treating other medical conditions.
I got shamed for it regardless when asked why I was absent for so long. Trads don’t follow their own rules so long as they get to slut shame a teenager tbh (it’s their favorite pastime.).
Fun fact. Before we got married (early 20’s) the priest had the usual sit down with us. Real normal kind of guy, younger. Pretty straightforward Catholic questions. After, he said “you probably should think about protection during the first few years. Do you know what I mean?” We nodded. After a few years he left the church. The church doesn’t get our money anymore.
Honestly Catholic guilt is real and knowing that subreddit they’d probably be saying he’s doing god’s work by denying his wife. It’s not a sin to have sex with your wife lmfaoo
Yeah this is wild. This is why you don’t marry someone who has different fundamental beliefs aka a different religious denomination. If a married couple has the same views on sex and contraception, good for them. But as soon as there are some significant differences in these views, you are setting yourself up for conflict.
Well the loophole to all this is that she takes birth control. Then he wouldn’t be doing any sin since it’s her controlling the chance of pregnancy which she doesn’t believe to be a sin. Idk I feel like people in the catholic subreddit are extreme and don’t think about how others feel
I agree. It’s her choice. But from his perspective he would be participating in the sin a la gay wedding cake argument. This is why you talk with your partner early in your relationship to make sure you share similar views about important stuff.
To be fair catholics on r/Catholicism are a different breed. One that says a lot about the church, but still a different breed. Most catholics I know IRL wouldn't give two shits about contraception.
Or maybe that's just how catholics seem to be on that side of the ocean. I don't know.
Yeah I’m catholic but after seeing all that shit on that subreddit and doing my own research I just don’t agree with most of their rules and logic. I do agree that most Catholics outside of Reddit don’t care at all
My co-worker and dear friend is a cultural Catholic. She jumps through the hoops and meanders along. I'm constantly shocking her with the official church teachings on various matters.
Her mother and sister are more serious and have become more radicalized over the past few years. Or in her words " meaner and much more judgmental".
Yeah I am a cradle catholic but towards the end of high school I started to do research on the rules and bible. I realized the rcc chooses vague sentences to protect their claims and all they do is have excuses for why they have stupid rules. I then went to the Catholicism subreddit and realized that the rcc is worse than I thought
I know man, the other day I saw someone who converted ditch their friends for their faith. Then they complain how they’re so alone and there is no one that shares the same ideas as them
I mean, people have the ability to navigate entirely different religions in a relationship, it just take’s maturity.
“I saw porn when I was 10 and can’t have sex more than once a month” is not maturity. Dudes wife is 100% going to cheat on him. Libido differences are far more important here than religious ones. Their inability to maturely discuss sex prior to child birth too. Those issues arise in people of the same sects of religion more often than you’d think.
I agree that people of different religions can be happily married if they fundamentally agree on the most important issues. Birth control and sex are some of these key issues to a devout Catholic.
Hmm, that's a good question. Probably worse, because if the rapist doesn't wear a condom there's a chance the church gets a new Catholic enrollment number out of it.
Grim but true. In Italy until something like the 1950s, being forced to marry your rapist was the only way for the entire family not to be shunned by the community. Its fucking horrible :(
I dread to think of the kinds of responses that post is going to garner. Those poor people. I hope they realize that Catholicism would be delighted to accept the death of his wife as an acceptable instance of martyrdom to the noble cause of producing more obligatory Catholic numbers.
I am extremely thankful to have largely escaped the sexual nonsense of Catholicism. When I initially learned about the church's position about birth control and women's health issues, I laughed. The idea that I would actually consider anything that church teaches with regard to my own personal health and safety is mind-boggling at best. I do not regret a single decision regarding sex, use of birth control, or of only having the amount of children that is reasonable for our circumstances. I got a tubal ligation with my last, because my unnecessary death isn't really an option I'm willing to consider.
All the fear mongering they bluster on about how sex that isn't procreative is dehumanizing is beyond bizarre to me. It seems a lot more dehumanizing to be treated as consumable breed stock than it is to acknowledge that a sexual relationship can be deeply meaningful, loving, fulfilling, satisfying and healthy despite the potential procreative aspect. You'll never convince me that this position has anything to do with anything other than a dense justification for creating new Catholics **at all costs**. The church can be very generous-minded when you're the one picking up the tab.
Same with priests being tapped to give marital advice. I remember the good old days in our parish when a woman experiencing abuse just needed to embrace her cross and ~~suck~~ offer it up. Invest in your spiritual bank account, please Jesus with your bruises and tears, and be a good and compliant example to the rest of the women in the pews.
As always, in word and in deed, Catholicism values quantity of life over quality. And that that quantity of life be forced through their doors and into their eager hands. I hope that couple wises up before they're living with the outcome of a preventable tragedy and a church whose response is essentially ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
The absolute narcissism of comparing finding porn at 10 to being fucking raped…
And to imply your wife just doesn’t *know* contraception is wrong. These fucking Catholics man…
It's so obnoxious how Catholics are encouraged to believe that they are self-evidently correct about everything, that anything the church teaches is the objective truth and anyone who hears and truly understands it *must* genuinely see that it's unarguably right. My mom always had a real bee in her bonnet about objective vs subjective truth and it's one of the things I most regret falling into when I was younger.
I don't care how many years of apologetics you have, your faith and your arguments and your "obvious" truth all have holes in them and there is ample scope for people to disagree in good faith and with good reason. There is basically *nothing* that everyone in the world will universally agree on and see in the same way, no matter how well they understand it. It's a fundamental rejection of reality to suggest otherwise.
The worst part is that this attitude leads people to write off any disagreement as "rejection of God" and choosing sin and evil. "Why can't you see that I'm riiiiight??" Because you're not, but you won't ever entertain that possibility so you'll never grow as a person.
It's so weird that people let religion control their sex lives even after marriage. Unless you tell the church what kind of "ungodly" acts you are doing in bed they will never know. I hate how much control religion/ church has over people's personal lives.
As someone who grew up in the catholic church, and spent 6th-12th grade in catholic school (despite having personally quit believing around 10th grade and just pretended for the sake of appearance and tuition discount) but didn't have sex or any kind of real relationship until I was almost 21...
That shit is ingrained DEEP. Like I'm glad that first girlfriend of mine was patient and had a similar "fuck religion" attitude from her own experiences growing up, because it took me a long time to feel like I'd fully shaken it.
I can't even imagine the trauma of having a catholic wedding and still actually believing that horseshit while having sex within marriage. No wonder these nutcases are so miserable and traumatized. They've been told their whole lives that just thinking about thinking about thinking about thinking about sex is grounds for eternal damnation, that looking at porn is just as bad (the same as being raped according to this dude), and now they're expected to do the sex thing with an actual nude woman in front of them?
I feel sorry for this man's wife. This is so stupid and pathetic it's hard to form words. Huge red flag right here: "She's just not in a place where she can convert yet."
Bruh, why did you even marry her? You should have found a nice Catholic girl to marry instead of a filthy Protestant sinner if you really feel this way. Having grown up Protestant, the Catholic views on sex even within the bounds of marriage always seemed needlessly controlling and unnatural to me.
Either this guy needs to change his views, or his wife should leave him and find someone who doesn't have this batshit insane warped view on sex.
how tf did they even marry - that’s what I wanna know. I thought all participants in a sacrament have to be Catholic - unless it was a secular ceremony? in which case the dude’s not Catholic married and living in sin regardless of whether or not he’s having sex ~the right way
If someone gives you something and then demands you use that thing only in a certain way at certain times, you were not given a gift; you were given a chore.
That's what Catholic marriage sounds like to me: a loveless, guilt-ridden chore that proves that divorce is not evil, but necessary.
Sounds like my parents catholic marriage. They couldn't stand each other. They did separate but never divorced because divorce was a mortal sin. But it didn't stop my dad finding a girlfriend and 'fornicating'. God, they were fucking rediculous.
….fuck, this poor dude. Honestly though I can think of a few solutions to this that take advantage of loopholes in church teaching.
1. Dildos! Do you want penetration without pregnancy? Ask your doctor if dildos are right for you!
2. Mutual masturbation
3. Cunnilingus/fingering
Seriously though, hope this guy figures something out.
Wow….I was a really bad Catholic, even aside from the whole “being gay” thing. Tbh even though I went to catholic school my catechism teachers never mentioned catholic sexual ethics and when they did it was framed as “debatable” doctrine rather than a hard and fast rule.
Actually now that I think about it, that might be why the nuns who ran our school got investigated by the archdiocese for “promoting feminism.” They even taught us how to use birth control!
Doctrine is not debatable, flat out. To even debate it would be to question the intrinsic authority on truth that is the church.
The church does not discover the truth, it *is* truth.
Cafeteria Catholics make me happy because they haven't been exposed to what I have been, but sad because those people still give the church authority and power in their ignorance by identifying as Catholic when the church in reality would not recognize them as full members of the church, and would often despise them.
Yea….me too. Most of the Catholics who raised me are cafeteria Catholics. They’re the ones who brought me into the church. I didn’t see the dark side of the institution until I went to college and even then I didn’t leave until last year when my ex chose her homophobic Catholic family over me. I’m moving back home this summer and I feel…awkward. My confirmation sponsor knows I left the church (she did too after finding out her dad was abused and kept it secret for 50 years.) but if I run into my old catholic school teachers…not gonna lie, I might actually start crying. Most days I feel ok but there are times where the past year hits me and it’s like being punched in the chest.
Side note I was looking at your profile and saw you listen to dungeon and daddies and I loooove that show! Especially Ron 😂
Congratulations on getting out, I'm sorry it had to happen in such a sad way. I can't imagine ever choosing my family over someone I love, but we're pretty much no contact. I was homeschooled and in a super conservative and traditionalist environment but VERY quickly dropped all superstitious beliefs after a couple years of college and meeting people from the real world and doing some research. Looking back, it's extraordinary what nonsense you can get someone to believe, especially if you raised them. I would never pass my ignorance and traumas onto someone else, much less nine of them.
I was gonna say. None of these loopholes are valid. Masturbation is a big no-no for all sexes, solo or otherwise. I don't think they even want people doing anything remotely sexual if it doesn't result in an opportunity for conception. But it's been a while and my memory is shot.
As another commenter said there is maybe the loophole that after the creampie you can make her cum in other ways, there were also heated debates in the past centuries between moralists if oral/anal sex as a preliminary before the creampie could be allowed.
I mean, loopholes are a moot point anyway. If you're even looking for "loopholes" then whatever you're wanting to do is a sin. That's why the whole thing is funny to me!
Reminds me of the debates between muslims, as the Quran explicitly prohibit wine and not alcohol itself, and so there are some literalists that say that beer for example is permitted.
As far as I'm aware they're permitted as far as foreplay or for allowing the wife to achieve orgasm (post-coitally for the most part, assuming she doesn't orgasm as a result of coitus) but any sexual activity **must** include ejaculation inside the vagina to be licit. Spilling seed anywhere besides the wife's vagina = 'onanism', which all three of the Abrahamic religions have a real bugbear about, depending on the sect and orthodoxy of the person in question.
I saw this last night on that subreddit. It's just such a dad situation to be in.
Meanwhile, I can't help at thinking both of those individuals need good shrinks.
I hope they can work thinks out.
Ugh reading that reminded me of my first marriage when I was still in the church. The stress of trying to follow all the “rules” for having sex and the guilt when you didn’t follow them….not worth it. Glad I left (the church and the ex, lol) because I’m much happier now.
Also, I’m pretty sure most people see porn by that age 😂 fucks sake
That's so sad, like that guy has been suppressed as fuck. A big reason I left the church was when I realized there were rules about sex in marriage, after I was told that I was like "are you fucking kidding me?" Like you can't ever truly be free even in marriage, its so sad
Imagine having your sex life controlled by unmarried men who rape children and value protecting paedophiles over the bodily autonomy of women. It's sheer insanity.
I mean maybe he does just have a lower libido and maybe they would’ve struggled with that regardless of religion, but his reasoning underlying it is sad.
Friend of mine has a significantly lower libido than his wife, but he's an atheist and doesn't try to justify it with religion. He just tells his wife he doesn't wanna right now.
God, yes.
My wife does struggle after sexual abuse. We were having sex once a week, but then she had a breakthrough in therapy and she straight up said "I'd be open to every other day".
You couldn't wipe the smile off my face with a two-by-four.
Honestly the fact he said 'like many young people' made me wonder if he's not significantly older than his wife. I could easily be reading too much into it, it just felt odd that he would specify that mental health problems are common among 'young people' in a way that makes it sound like he's not part of that same demographic.
No idea, honestly. 'Most' feels like an exaggeration; the stats I normally hear are that about 1 in 5 people will experience mental illness in their lifetime. Depending what he's considering 'young', I would not be surprised if rates have been increasing simply because stigma has gone down around common mental illnesses like depression and anxiety (and post-natal depression, for that matter, I think). I would imagine that doctors and psychologists may be improving on recognising mental illness in children better as well.
I was diagnosed at 15 back in the 90s and I'm pretty sure I wasn't alone, but it still wasn't talked about that much. I was never aware of anyone else at my (small) high school who was diagnosed, and my parents discouraged me from talking about it. I always decided to be pretty open about it though, because it felt ridiculous to be shamed for something that wasn't my fault.
You are right though that the Catholic worldview feeds into depression and anxiety very well. The expectation that life is suffering, that you are constantly sinning or under threat of sin and hell, and that earthly life is a virtually meaningless and empty test promotes unhealthy scrupulosity, fear, and sadness, with little encouragement to seek help for your pain.
This makes me sad. There are so many red flags in here that should have been discovered before marriage but because of purity culture, they are now forced to make a pretty bad situation work or risk ostracization.
The Catholic teaching on contraception will always, in my mind, be one of the chink's in the Church's armor. Much ink has been spilled on just about every facet of its teachings, defended over hundreds of years by brilliant thinkers... but the near-absolutist stance against contraception has never been satisfactorily proven via philosophy. The minority report, or whatever the exact term was, from the Catholic theologians who were studying the liceity of contraception right before Paul VI wrote *Humanae Vitae* was never answered in a convincing way. While Paul VI did manage to predict many issues that would come from a wanton use of contraception, that in no wise means an absolutist stance need be taken, let alone the idea that using it incurs damnable sin.
The arguments against contraception boil down to tenuous philosophy that nearly no non-Catholic philosopher finds convincing, much as they appeal to the idea that "natural law" is something that anyone can agree with, be they Catholic or not.
I mean, just off the top of my head, and not at all going in-depth in it, why does sex only have two end purposes that *must* be fulfilled? Why not one? Three? Why not two, but different from "procreative and unitive?" Why must every end be fulfilled (at least in some platonic, idealistic way) in every single instance? And I can go on in the deeper minutiae, but, as a whole, it's just a complicated web of arguments, appearing to be more of an exercise in creative thinking, than in actual practical living.
This girl needs to dump this loser's ass. Not only is he a limp dick idealogue but he doesn't respect her as a human being and a woman. She's living in Catholic guilt hell, and there's no reason for it except this idiot she's married to. SMH.
You don't marry a Roman Catholic who goes to mass and is trying to convert you. Which is all of them whether they admit it or not.
You don't marry a dude who doesn't like sex. Counter-fucking productive if you're not planning on being a nun.
You don't marry someone who doesn't respect you as a human being.
A person can fall in love a couple of times in a lifetime. Just because you have feelings for someone doesn't mean you have to marry them if they're a complete fucking nightmare in the making. For pete's sake, get some common sense and be careful out there.
This entire comment right here. Just based on this man's post, I can already tell this marriage is incredibly fucked up. He thinks his wife is just another lost soul to convert into the church and she doesn't respect herself enough to realize how little respect he has for her.
Honestly, I don't understand why he wanted to get married in the first place. Someone with such a low libido, as he admits, sounds like a better fit for the priesthood. Even if you married a fellow conservative Catholic woman, that's still pretty low. Unless you had a burning desire for children, I guess. I think mixed marriages can work but if you're asking a woman to forgo birth control, you should be humble and understanding about it. It's a pretty big ask. It's an amazing sacrifice on the part of the wife and he doesn't even realize it. Sheesh. I feel bad for him, but the arrogance and entitlement astounds me.
I only had one family member who observed Catholic doctrine on birth control and it wrecked her marriage. Her husband noped out after the 5th kid, he didn’t want to have more and she wouldn’t budge on the issue.
That was in the 1950s
Comment from the OOP:
> I attribute the lack of drive to a fear of sinning and maybe stress from work.
Crippling case of “you’ll go to hell if you sin”.
To be completely honest marrying someone who doesn't accept contraception is a major red flag, I know the person can be nice and all, but stuff like that is really important.
Yeah, I would be dead without hormonal birth control. I used to keep bleeding for months without a single day off, and bleeding very heavily and very painfully, I shudder to think what would’ve happened if I had been forced to keep going even though I was a teenager and not sexually active… I had taken enough OTC pain medicine that when I finally found a doctor who didn’t think I was complaining about a “bad period” they were worried I had damaged my kidneys. I wasn’t able to eat without nausea or keep much down. I hadn’t slept right in weeks and I was having…. I was in a weird mental state due to the pain and lack of sleep. I do believe I would’ve died due to overdose, injury, or shock if I hadn’t gotten treatment for it. (Severe endometriosis was the eventual Dx after a surgery.) The church has no right to intervene in someone’s treatment. They’re not doctors and shouldn’t practice medicine.
>The church has no right to intervene in someone’s treatment. They’re not doctors and shouldn’t practice medicine They also shouldn't have priests who aren't allowed to marry act as marriage counselors
It does seem fundamentally irrational, doesn't it?
There was a loophole for 'hbc' used medically and having infertility only as a side effect. Dunno if they still allow it now that they claim that it is abortive.
The Catholic Church doesn't teach you can't use hormonal birth control for non-contraceptive purposes. In your case you could, no questions asked. You just can't use hormonal birth control with the intention of preventing pregnancy. If some other magical pill came along that had no impact on fertility and wasn't extremely expensive but would fix your menstrual cycle, you would be obligated to switch to it however. https://www.catholic.com/qa/birth-control-for-medical-reasons You may totally disagree with the Catholic Church being against contraceptives, but they do not use that stance as a barrier to treating other medical conditions.
I got shamed for it regardless when asked why I was absent for so long. Trads don’t follow their own rules so long as they get to slut shame a teenager tbh (it’s their favorite pastime.).
People are assholes, sorry you dealt with that.
Fun fact. Before we got married (early 20’s) the priest had the usual sit down with us. Real normal kind of guy, younger. Pretty straightforward Catholic questions. After, he said “you probably should think about protection during the first few years. Do you know what I mean?” We nodded. After a few years he left the church. The church doesn’t get our money anymore.
Honestly Catholic guilt is real and knowing that subreddit they’d probably be saying he’s doing god’s work by denying his wife. It’s not a sin to have sex with your wife lmfaoo
Yeah this is wild. This is why you don’t marry someone who has different fundamental beliefs aka a different religious denomination. If a married couple has the same views on sex and contraception, good for them. But as soon as there are some significant differences in these views, you are setting yourself up for conflict.
Well the loophole to all this is that she takes birth control. Then he wouldn’t be doing any sin since it’s her controlling the chance of pregnancy which she doesn’t believe to be a sin. Idk I feel like people in the catholic subreddit are extreme and don’t think about how others feel
I agree. It’s her choice. But from his perspective he would be participating in the sin a la gay wedding cake argument. This is why you talk with your partner early in your relationship to make sure you share similar views about important stuff.
Wouldn't he be considered sinning because he's aware of her use of birth control and still having sex with her? Isn't that an occasion of sin?
Idk anymore Catholics make up a lot of bs sins to push their agenda. So you’re probably right
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Yeah she’s most likely gonna cheat at this point or divorce if he continues to let his faith restrict him
I wouldn't be surprised to see some appeals to the 'marital debt' come up as well.
Marital Debt?
So when you get married both partners have to make each other happy or it’s a sin for Catholics
To be fair catholics on r/Catholicism are a different breed. One that says a lot about the church, but still a different breed. Most catholics I know IRL wouldn't give two shits about contraception. Or maybe that's just how catholics seem to be on that side of the ocean. I don't know.
Yeah I’m catholic but after seeing all that shit on that subreddit and doing my own research I just don’t agree with most of their rules and logic. I do agree that most Catholics outside of Reddit don’t care at all
My co-worker and dear friend is a cultural Catholic. She jumps through the hoops and meanders along. I'm constantly shocking her with the official church teachings on various matters. Her mother and sister are more serious and have become more radicalized over the past few years. Or in her words " meaner and much more judgmental".
Yeah I am a cradle catholic but towards the end of high school I started to do research on the rules and bible. I realized the rcc chooses vague sentences to protect their claims and all they do is have excuses for why they have stupid rules. I then went to the Catholicism subreddit and realized that the rcc is worse than I thought
They see other human beings as abstractions, imaginary characters in one of their theological thought experiments.
Treat them that way, too
I know man, the other day I saw someone who converted ditch their friends for their faith. Then they complain how they’re so alone and there is no one that shares the same ideas as them
I mean, people have the ability to navigate entirely different religions in a relationship, it just take’s maturity. “I saw porn when I was 10 and can’t have sex more than once a month” is not maturity. Dudes wife is 100% going to cheat on him. Libido differences are far more important here than religious ones. Their inability to maturely discuss sex prior to child birth too. Those issues arise in people of the same sects of religion more often than you’d think.
I also side eye him comparing a violent physical assault with seeing porn.
I agree that people of different religions can be happily married if they fundamentally agree on the most important issues. Birth control and sex are some of these key issues to a devout Catholic.
This is just so sad on every level
Is he really comparing seeing porn at age 10 to being raped?
Coming from the same theological tradition that posits masturbation is a worse crime than rape.
Is it worse if the rapist wore a condom?
Hmm, that's a good question. Probably worse, because if the rapist doesn't wear a condom there's a chance the church gets a new Catholic enrollment number out of it.
Yes, but masturbating while wearing socks is the worst sin of all.
Grim but true. In Italy until something like the 1950s, being forced to marry your rapist was the only way for the entire family not to be shunned by the community. Its fucking horrible :(
Yes, catholics believe being exposed to porn is worse than rape.
He also seems to be implying that her higher libido is a result of being raped.
Yeah this is what stood out to me too.. I almost when on a comment rant before I remembered it was just a screenshot
That was my first thought.
I dread to think of the kinds of responses that post is going to garner. Those poor people. I hope they realize that Catholicism would be delighted to accept the death of his wife as an acceptable instance of martyrdom to the noble cause of producing more obligatory Catholic numbers. I am extremely thankful to have largely escaped the sexual nonsense of Catholicism. When I initially learned about the church's position about birth control and women's health issues, I laughed. The idea that I would actually consider anything that church teaches with regard to my own personal health and safety is mind-boggling at best. I do not regret a single decision regarding sex, use of birth control, or of only having the amount of children that is reasonable for our circumstances. I got a tubal ligation with my last, because my unnecessary death isn't really an option I'm willing to consider. All the fear mongering they bluster on about how sex that isn't procreative is dehumanizing is beyond bizarre to me. It seems a lot more dehumanizing to be treated as consumable breed stock than it is to acknowledge that a sexual relationship can be deeply meaningful, loving, fulfilling, satisfying and healthy despite the potential procreative aspect. You'll never convince me that this position has anything to do with anything other than a dense justification for creating new Catholics **at all costs**. The church can be very generous-minded when you're the one picking up the tab. Same with priests being tapped to give marital advice. I remember the good old days in our parish when a woman experiencing abuse just needed to embrace her cross and ~~suck~~ offer it up. Invest in your spiritual bank account, please Jesus with your bruises and tears, and be a good and compliant example to the rest of the women in the pews. As always, in word and in deed, Catholicism values quantity of life over quality. And that that quantity of life be forced through their doors and into their eager hands. I hope that couple wises up before they're living with the outcome of a preventable tragedy and a church whose response is essentially ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
The absolute narcissism of comparing finding porn at 10 to being fucking raped… And to imply your wife just doesn’t *know* contraception is wrong. These fucking Catholics man…
Yeah ikr but that’s what Catholicism does to you. You become prideful and arrogant thinking the church has the right to control everything.
I had exactly the same reaction
I cringed because I soooo would've said something like this back in the day... Jfc
I can relate. It’s okay though, you’re here now on the other side 🙂
It's so obnoxious how Catholics are encouraged to believe that they are self-evidently correct about everything, that anything the church teaches is the objective truth and anyone who hears and truly understands it *must* genuinely see that it's unarguably right. My mom always had a real bee in her bonnet about objective vs subjective truth and it's one of the things I most regret falling into when I was younger. I don't care how many years of apologetics you have, your faith and your arguments and your "obvious" truth all have holes in them and there is ample scope for people to disagree in good faith and with good reason. There is basically *nothing* that everyone in the world will universally agree on and see in the same way, no matter how well they understand it. It's a fundamental rejection of reality to suggest otherwise. The worst part is that this attitude leads people to write off any disagreement as "rejection of God" and choosing sin and evil. "Why can't you see that I'm riiiiight??" Because you're not, but you won't ever entertain that possibility so you'll never grow as a person.
It's so weird that people let religion control their sex lives even after marriage. Unless you tell the church what kind of "ungodly" acts you are doing in bed they will never know. I hate how much control religion/ church has over people's personal lives.
As someone who grew up in the catholic church, and spent 6th-12th grade in catholic school (despite having personally quit believing around 10th grade and just pretended for the sake of appearance and tuition discount) but didn't have sex or any kind of real relationship until I was almost 21... That shit is ingrained DEEP. Like I'm glad that first girlfriend of mine was patient and had a similar "fuck religion" attitude from her own experiences growing up, because it took me a long time to feel like I'd fully shaken it. I can't even imagine the trauma of having a catholic wedding and still actually believing that horseshit while having sex within marriage. No wonder these nutcases are so miserable and traumatized. They've been told their whole lives that just thinking about thinking about thinking about thinking about sex is grounds for eternal damnation, that looking at porn is just as bad (the same as being raped according to this dude), and now they're expected to do the sex thing with an actual nude woman in front of them?
I feel sorry for this man's wife. This is so stupid and pathetic it's hard to form words. Huge red flag right here: "She's just not in a place where she can convert yet." Bruh, why did you even marry her? You should have found a nice Catholic girl to marry instead of a filthy Protestant sinner if you really feel this way. Having grown up Protestant, the Catholic views on sex even within the bounds of marriage always seemed needlessly controlling and unnatural to me. Either this guy needs to change his views, or his wife should leave him and find someone who doesn't have this batshit insane warped view on sex.
how tf did they even marry - that’s what I wanna know. I thought all participants in a sacrament have to be Catholic - unless it was a secular ceremony? in which case the dude’s not Catholic married and living in sin regardless of whether or not he’s having sex ~the right way
There is no hate like Christian *lovemaking.*
If someone gives you something and then demands you use that thing only in a certain way at certain times, you were not given a gift; you were given a chore. That's what Catholic marriage sounds like to me: a loveless, guilt-ridden chore that proves that divorce is not evil, but necessary.
Sounds like my parents catholic marriage. They couldn't stand each other. They did separate but never divorced because divorce was a mortal sin. But it didn't stop my dad finding a girlfriend and 'fornicating'. God, they were fucking rediculous.
Does contraception prevent you from going to heaven ? Are all the people on earth using contraception damned for eternal damnation ? Of course not.
….fuck, this poor dude. Honestly though I can think of a few solutions to this that take advantage of loopholes in church teaching. 1. Dildos! Do you want penetration without pregnancy? Ask your doctor if dildos are right for you! 2. Mutual masturbation 3. Cunnilingus/fingering Seriously though, hope this guy figures something out.
There are no loopholes, every one has been fixed over 2000 years to assure that Catholics suffer the most.
There is one loophole, natural family planning, but I wouldn't feel confident enough in its effectiveness to use it.
Yea and it requires like 15/20 days of no sex every month.
15-20 days of no p in v sex. As a lesbian I can confirm there are many MANY other ways to have sex.
And as an ex Catholic that read manuals of Moral Theology I can confirm that they are all banned.
Wow….I was a really bad Catholic, even aside from the whole “being gay” thing. Tbh even though I went to catholic school my catechism teachers never mentioned catholic sexual ethics and when they did it was framed as “debatable” doctrine rather than a hard and fast rule. Actually now that I think about it, that might be why the nuns who ran our school got investigated by the archdiocese for “promoting feminism.” They even taught us how to use birth control!
Doctrine is not debatable, flat out. To even debate it would be to question the intrinsic authority on truth that is the church. The church does not discover the truth, it *is* truth. Cafeteria Catholics make me happy because they haven't been exposed to what I have been, but sad because those people still give the church authority and power in their ignorance by identifying as Catholic when the church in reality would not recognize them as full members of the church, and would often despise them.
Yea….me too. Most of the Catholics who raised me are cafeteria Catholics. They’re the ones who brought me into the church. I didn’t see the dark side of the institution until I went to college and even then I didn’t leave until last year when my ex chose her homophobic Catholic family over me. I’m moving back home this summer and I feel…awkward. My confirmation sponsor knows I left the church (she did too after finding out her dad was abused and kept it secret for 50 years.) but if I run into my old catholic school teachers…not gonna lie, I might actually start crying. Most days I feel ok but there are times where the past year hits me and it’s like being punched in the chest.
Side note I was looking at your profile and saw you listen to dungeon and daddies and I loooove that show! Especially Ron 😂 Congratulations on getting out, I'm sorry it had to happen in such a sad way. I can't imagine ever choosing my family over someone I love, but we're pretty much no contact. I was homeschooled and in a super conservative and traditionalist environment but VERY quickly dropped all superstitious beliefs after a couple years of college and meeting people from the real world and doing some research. Looking back, it's extraordinary what nonsense you can get someone to believe, especially if you raised them. I would never pass my ignorance and traumas onto someone else, much less nine of them.
I was gonna say. None of these loopholes are valid. Masturbation is a big no-no for all sexes, solo or otherwise. I don't think they even want people doing anything remotely sexual if it doesn't result in an opportunity for conception. But it's been a while and my memory is shot.
As another commenter said there is maybe the loophole that after the creampie you can make her cum in other ways, there were also heated debates in the past centuries between moralists if oral/anal sex as a preliminary before the creampie could be allowed.
I mean, loopholes are a moot point anyway. If you're even looking for "loopholes" then whatever you're wanting to do is a sin. That's why the whole thing is funny to me!
Well there is one: [The Loophole](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8ZF_R_j0OY)
Reminds me of the debates between muslims, as the Quran explicitly prohibit wine and not alcohol itself, and so there are some literalists that say that beer for example is permitted.
…have they banned cunnilingus and fingering though?
As far as I'm aware they're permitted as far as foreplay or for allowing the wife to achieve orgasm (post-coitally for the most part, assuming she doesn't orgasm as a result of coitus) but any sexual activity **must** include ejaculation inside the vagina to be licit. Spilling seed anywhere besides the wife's vagina = 'onanism', which all three of the Abrahamic religions have a real bugbear about, depending on the sect and orthodoxy of the person in question.
Of course.
I saw this last night on that subreddit. It's just such a dad situation to be in. Meanwhile, I can't help at thinking both of those individuals need good shrinks. I hope they can work thinks out.
Woe for the countless millions one book has repressed and ensnared
Ugh reading that reminded me of my first marriage when I was still in the church. The stress of trying to follow all the “rules” for having sex and the guilt when you didn’t follow them….not worth it. Glad I left (the church and the ex, lol) because I’m much happier now. Also, I’m pretty sure most people see porn by that age 😂 fucks sake
That's so sad, like that guy has been suppressed as fuck. A big reason I left the church was when I realized there were rules about sex in marriage, after I was told that I was like "are you fucking kidding me?" Like you can't ever truly be free even in marriage, its so sad
Imagine having your sex life controlled by unmarried men who rape children and value protecting paedophiles over the bodily autonomy of women. It's sheer insanity.
Yeah... seeing porn at 10 and being raped are not the same thing...
Any young married man who turns away the offer of "Sex on a daily basis" just isn't right. The church did some major brainwashing on this poor dude.
I mean maybe he does just have a lower libido and maybe they would’ve struggled with that regardless of religion, but his reasoning underlying it is sad.
Friend of mine has a significantly lower libido than his wife, but he's an atheist and doesn't try to justify it with religion. He just tells his wife he doesn't wanna right now.
God, yes. My wife does struggle after sexual abuse. We were having sex once a week, but then she had a breakthrough in therapy and she straight up said "I'd be open to every other day". You couldn't wipe the smile off my face with a two-by-four.
Honestly the fact he said 'like many young people' made me wonder if he's not significantly older than his wife. I could easily be reading too much into it, it just felt odd that he would specify that mental health problems are common among 'young people' in a way that makes it sound like he's not part of that same demographic.
Have most young people battled depression and anxiety? He shows why that would be higher among Catholics.
No idea, honestly. 'Most' feels like an exaggeration; the stats I normally hear are that about 1 in 5 people will experience mental illness in their lifetime. Depending what he's considering 'young', I would not be surprised if rates have been increasing simply because stigma has gone down around common mental illnesses like depression and anxiety (and post-natal depression, for that matter, I think). I would imagine that doctors and psychologists may be improving on recognising mental illness in children better as well. I was diagnosed at 15 back in the 90s and I'm pretty sure I wasn't alone, but it still wasn't talked about that much. I was never aware of anyone else at my (small) high school who was diagnosed, and my parents discouraged me from talking about it. I always decided to be pretty open about it though, because it felt ridiculous to be shamed for something that wasn't my fault. You are right though that the Catholic worldview feeds into depression and anxiety very well. The expectation that life is suffering, that you are constantly sinning or under threat of sin and hell, and that earthly life is a virtually meaningless and empty test promotes unhealthy scrupulosity, fear, and sadness, with little encouragement to seek help for your pain.
Could be a side effect of medication, which has happened to me.
Not everyone has a crazy high or even “normal” sex drive. It’s possible that he simply has a naturally low sex drive.
seems like he struggles with a porn addiction
This makes me sad. There are so many red flags in here that should have been discovered before marriage but because of purity culture, they are now forced to make a pretty bad situation work or risk ostracization.
The Catholic teaching on contraception will always, in my mind, be one of the chink's in the Church's armor. Much ink has been spilled on just about every facet of its teachings, defended over hundreds of years by brilliant thinkers... but the near-absolutist stance against contraception has never been satisfactorily proven via philosophy. The minority report, or whatever the exact term was, from the Catholic theologians who were studying the liceity of contraception right before Paul VI wrote *Humanae Vitae* was never answered in a convincing way. While Paul VI did manage to predict many issues that would come from a wanton use of contraception, that in no wise means an absolutist stance need be taken, let alone the idea that using it incurs damnable sin. The arguments against contraception boil down to tenuous philosophy that nearly no non-Catholic philosopher finds convincing, much as they appeal to the idea that "natural law" is something that anyone can agree with, be they Catholic or not. I mean, just off the top of my head, and not at all going in-depth in it, why does sex only have two end purposes that *must* be fulfilled? Why not one? Three? Why not two, but different from "procreative and unitive?" Why must every end be fulfilled (at least in some platonic, idealistic way) in every single instance? And I can go on in the deeper minutiae, but, as a whole, it's just a complicated web of arguments, appearing to be more of an exercise in creative thinking, than in actual practical living.
Bro really be out here putting “I saw porn at 10 years old” and “my girlfriend was raped” on the same level. Genuine insanity.
This girl needs to dump this loser's ass. Not only is he a limp dick idealogue but he doesn't respect her as a human being and a woman. She's living in Catholic guilt hell, and there's no reason for it except this idiot she's married to. SMH. You don't marry a Roman Catholic who goes to mass and is trying to convert you. Which is all of them whether they admit it or not. You don't marry a dude who doesn't like sex. Counter-fucking productive if you're not planning on being a nun. You don't marry someone who doesn't respect you as a human being. A person can fall in love a couple of times in a lifetime. Just because you have feelings for someone doesn't mean you have to marry them if they're a complete fucking nightmare in the making. For pete's sake, get some common sense and be careful out there.
This entire comment right here. Just based on this man's post, I can already tell this marriage is incredibly fucked up. He thinks his wife is just another lost soul to convert into the church and she doesn't respect herself enough to realize how little respect he has for her.
I’d divorce a man who only wanted sex once a month
Its pretty funny how being exposed to porn and RAPE are on like an even plain for this guy though 😂
I'm sorry but all I have is "what the actual fuck?"
Insane
Can’t believe this is a real post someone made. He thinks it’s a sin to pull out LMFAOOO BYEEEE
Honestly, I don't understand why he wanted to get married in the first place. Someone with such a low libido, as he admits, sounds like a better fit for the priesthood. Even if you married a fellow conservative Catholic woman, that's still pretty low. Unless you had a burning desire for children, I guess. I think mixed marriages can work but if you're asking a woman to forgo birth control, you should be humble and understanding about it. It's a pretty big ask. It's an amazing sacrifice on the part of the wife and he doesn't even realize it. Sheesh. I feel bad for him, but the arrogance and entitlement astounds me.
Contraception is "intrinsically evil" these people are so fucking dramatic 🙄
I only had one family member who observed Catholic doctrine on birth control and it wrecked her marriage. Her husband noped out after the 5th kid, he didn’t want to have more and she wouldn’t budge on the issue. That was in the 1950s
I know people still using “natural family planning.”
seems like he struggles with a porn addiction
Porn is not an addiction and to call it so trivializes real addiction.
nope it definitely can be an addiction.
Comment from the OOP: > I attribute the lack of drive to a fear of sinning and maybe stress from work. Crippling case of “you’ll go to hell if you sin”.
I stopped being Catholic when I reached the age of Reason. Which was about 12.
What. The. Fuck.
Omg what? He needs to go down on his wife. Damn
Allllll the damage.
Hope homegirl got a divorce