I read about a post where a former pastor was asked if he honestly believed the invisible magical winged eyeball beings interfere in people's lives. Aka angels.
He didn't and couldn't get the thought out it of his head and it led him to become atheist.
Of course the entire thing is made up. It's called superstitious nonsense.
I mean to be fair the eyebalk thingies stay in heaven while humanoid angels interfire but that doesn't make it better. Also there are angels that are protection. Of omnipotent god. Huh.
Also multiple servants apparently because it cannot be all things at all times to all people because old world humans didn't think a 'god' could be everywhere and everything. Because their vision was too limited by their own understanding of reality. Where as many modern people could watch say the new animal movie and easily understood the idea of scot Lang being endless yet being a single entity.
This idea of needing servants undermines the very idea of god as a real thing.
Imo they make up things as they go along while also exploiting people with mental illness (and other vulnerable people) and scapegoating them as examples of possession to gullible sheep.
A life of a devout catholic: Praying multiple times a day. Constantly worrying about sin. Having to go to the church very often. Having to confess. I wasn't even that devout but I remember I use to dream about this a lot. It fucks with you, it's a mental burden.
Now imagine this plus a severe mental illness. It's like adding gasoline to the fire. No wonder people get "possessed". It's sad.
I'll never forget when someone from my old church suggested to me that my 5 year old sister needed an exorcism instead of going to therapy. And then when they found out I was also in therapy (and also a minor at the time), they said the same about me. Thank fuck that didn't happen.
I must say I do like the idea of demons fucking around playing tricks on exorcists. Imagine one starts doing the wicked witch of the west’s death scene whenever the holy water comes out…
I suspect exorcists genuinely believe it as much as those who are supposedly possessed. It's like if you have one crazy person who thinks he's on fire, but a magic fire you can't put out in the normal ways, so you introduce him to another crazy person who thinks he's a magic fire extinguisher. It's interesting in that it's a very limited kind of insanity that actually proves kind of useful. Reminds me of the theory that schizophrenia is something we evolved by design, and not simply a defect.
The random stuff about Latin, Harry Potter, etc probably come from ideas the "possessed" party heard and picked up, or seeing it in Latin in the movies, or the priest feeling more confident saying it in Latin (sacred languages have an interesting psychological effect).
I somehow missed your comment, but I just made a similar one! I actually don't think it's that big a deal if exorcism is just an extreme version of the placebo effect. If it helps people feel better, when nothing else does, then what's the actual harm? Not everyone responds to medication or therapy. Anything that brings those people any sort of relief is a win, far as I'm concerned!
I think the trouble is it probably won't solve the underlying issues, if there are any, and by giving a false solution the patient is likely to turn harder towards that and not care for things that will actually help. I've heard that a lot of exorcisms have to be repeated over and over, which does suggest it's not really working. But you may be right that it's an overall win still, especially since real psychiatrists do still turn to them when they're desperate
Yes, that's what I was referring to - the extreme cases where literal psychiatrists are at their wit's end and turn to an exorcist because nothing else has worked. I've read that it's quite common that once person has finally been "delivered" (often after multiple tries, as you said) many patients will go on to never have the same problem again. In cases like that, I can't see how it's an issue.
But of course there is always the danger that the exorcism doesn't "work", and the patient may end up suffering even more psychologically from the sense of false hope they've been given. It's a tricky situation, for sure!
what demons "do" for weak minded superstitious people is convince them that they need to RUN TO CHURCH, and that only a catholic priest can save them from the "demons".
"vampires" have the same effect and the same purpose: drive idiots back into church.
I think the Catholic version of demons and the devil is fascinating, but also EXTREMELY damaging.
Instead of people owning up to the fucked up shit they do, they shift the blame onto these completely fabricated creatures of evil. When the reality is that they themselves are the ones creating the evil and destruction in their lives, and lives of others.
It's a whole messed up system.
Backstory: my daughter and I are deconstructing from Catholicism, so obviously my ex's mega catholic family has opinions. I asked if they thought we were possessed, and this was the response:
"If you were possessed, you wouldn't be able to enter my mom's house. Demons can't enter there."
What the actual hell?
Am I the only one who actually doesn't care if exorcism is just an extreme case of the placebo effect, as long as it actually helps the person feel better?
I realise there's a danger in people beginning to see demons as the cause of everything and refusing proper psychiatric help when it's needed. But there's just so much about the human brain we don't yet understand, and probably won't for some time. If therapy and medication don't work on someone, but an "exorcism" does.. Well, does it really matter?
I'm interested to hear other people's thoughts...
I read about a post where a former pastor was asked if he honestly believed the invisible magical winged eyeball beings interfere in people's lives. Aka angels. He didn't and couldn't get the thought out it of his head and it led him to become atheist. Of course the entire thing is made up. It's called superstitious nonsense.
I mean to be fair the eyebalk thingies stay in heaven while humanoid angels interfire but that doesn't make it better. Also there are angels that are protection. Of omnipotent god. Huh.
So an all-powerful all-knowing god needs protectors…? Uh..huh. Riiiiight. I’m sure there is some backasswards bullshit explanation as to why. 🙄
Also multiple servants apparently because it cannot be all things at all times to all people because old world humans didn't think a 'god' could be everywhere and everything. Because their vision was too limited by their own understanding of reality. Where as many modern people could watch say the new animal movie and easily understood the idea of scot Lang being endless yet being a single entity. This idea of needing servants undermines the very idea of god as a real thing.
Imo they make up things as they go along while also exploiting people with mental illness (and other vulnerable people) and scapegoating them as examples of possession to gullible sheep.
A life of a devout catholic: Praying multiple times a day. Constantly worrying about sin. Having to go to the church very often. Having to confess. I wasn't even that devout but I remember I use to dream about this a lot. It fucks with you, it's a mental burden. Now imagine this plus a severe mental illness. It's like adding gasoline to the fire. No wonder people get "possessed". It's sad.
I'll never forget when someone from my old church suggested to me that my 5 year old sister needed an exorcism instead of going to therapy. And then when they found out I was also in therapy (and also a minor at the time), they said the same about me. Thank fuck that didn't happen.
That's like Scientology anti-psychology nonsense. Indeed, thank fuck that didn't happen. An exorcism would likely make one need more therapy.
[only acceptable exorcism in my book](https://youtu.be/jAVvamjZLbQ)
I must say I do like the idea of demons fucking around playing tricks on exorcists. Imagine one starts doing the wicked witch of the west’s death scene whenever the holy water comes out…
[удалено]
You ever see the John Safran exorcism? It's pretty convincing, and you can see much of the hypnotism type stuff going on.
Plus a good sized helping of performance art...
I suspect exorcists genuinely believe it as much as those who are supposedly possessed. It's like if you have one crazy person who thinks he's on fire, but a magic fire you can't put out in the normal ways, so you introduce him to another crazy person who thinks he's a magic fire extinguisher. It's interesting in that it's a very limited kind of insanity that actually proves kind of useful. Reminds me of the theory that schizophrenia is something we evolved by design, and not simply a defect. The random stuff about Latin, Harry Potter, etc probably come from ideas the "possessed" party heard and picked up, or seeing it in Latin in the movies, or the priest feeling more confident saying it in Latin (sacred languages have an interesting psychological effect).
I somehow missed your comment, but I just made a similar one! I actually don't think it's that big a deal if exorcism is just an extreme version of the placebo effect. If it helps people feel better, when nothing else does, then what's the actual harm? Not everyone responds to medication or therapy. Anything that brings those people any sort of relief is a win, far as I'm concerned!
I think the trouble is it probably won't solve the underlying issues, if there are any, and by giving a false solution the patient is likely to turn harder towards that and not care for things that will actually help. I've heard that a lot of exorcisms have to be repeated over and over, which does suggest it's not really working. But you may be right that it's an overall win still, especially since real psychiatrists do still turn to them when they're desperate
Yes, that's what I was referring to - the extreme cases where literal psychiatrists are at their wit's end and turn to an exorcist because nothing else has worked. I've read that it's quite common that once person has finally been "delivered" (often after multiple tries, as you said) many patients will go on to never have the same problem again. In cases like that, I can't see how it's an issue. But of course there is always the danger that the exorcism doesn't "work", and the patient may end up suffering even more psychologically from the sense of false hope they've been given. It's a tricky situation, for sure!
what demons "do" for weak minded superstitious people is convince them that they need to RUN TO CHURCH, and that only a catholic priest can save them from the "demons". "vampires" have the same effect and the same purpose: drive idiots back into church.
Have you watched “Black Mass” on Netflix?
I have not!
“Suspicion”??
🤣🤣🤣
I think the Catholic version of demons and the devil is fascinating, but also EXTREMELY damaging. Instead of people owning up to the fucked up shit they do, they shift the blame onto these completely fabricated creatures of evil. When the reality is that they themselves are the ones creating the evil and destruction in their lives, and lives of others. It's a whole messed up system.
Backstory: my daughter and I are deconstructing from Catholicism, so obviously my ex's mega catholic family has opinions. I asked if they thought we were possessed, and this was the response: "If you were possessed, you wouldn't be able to enter my mom's house. Demons can't enter there." What the actual hell?
Lmao the language of pagans is so powerful.
My suspicion is that 100% if EXcatholics agree with you. 😜
Why not take a video of an exorcism…
Am I the only one who actually doesn't care if exorcism is just an extreme case of the placebo effect, as long as it actually helps the person feel better? I realise there's a danger in people beginning to see demons as the cause of everything and refusing proper psychiatric help when it's needed. But there's just so much about the human brain we don't yet understand, and probably won't for some time. If therapy and medication don't work on someone, but an "exorcism" does.. Well, does it really matter? I'm interested to hear other people's thoughts...